The Jason Cavness Experience

Keirsten's Social Media!!

Twitter: @traprecruiter

Facebook: @traprecruiter

LinkedIn: @traprecruiter

Instagram: @traprecruiter

Keirsten's Resources!!

One of the things that I offer through Trap Recruiter, LLC is career coaching. I will offer a 20% discount on for say, 10 of your listeners. If they sign up for career coaching sessions.

Jason Hello, and welcome to the cavnessHR podcast. I'm your host Jason Cavness. Our guest today i Keirsten Greggs. Keirsten are you ready to be great today

Keirsten I am.

Jason Keisten is a talent acquisition consultant and career coach. In 2017 she founded Trap Recruiter LLC. A small business committed to bridging the gap between the job seeker and organizations committed to tracking hiring, developing and retaining diverse talent and fostering inclusive, equitable cultures. During her 19 year career, she has implemented creative recruiting strategies for Defense Intelligence, federal and civilian contract portfolio. That accumulated a full range of talent acquisition experience, including full lifecycle recruiting, executive hiring, talent acquisition operations, training, development and delivering. Talent acquisition, Product Management, college recruiting, internal staffing. Always focused on relationship building. she engages with a broader audience via her blog as a guest speaker and as a guest in various podcasts, facilitating workshops and training Keirsten, thank you for being here today. I really appreciate it.

Keirsten Thank you for having me.

Jason What are you focused on now?

Keirsten Right now I do focus primarily on a contract that I have with a company to staff their global trade compliance group. So that is my quote unquote, nine to five job, that will be your regular full lifecycle recruiting. Then I still do some of my independent things on the side. I am grateful and so very thankful that this company is very amenable to my schedule, allowing me to continue to do Trap Recruiter work as long as their good work is completed.

Jason A lot of recruiters like have a niche, they only do construction or tech. But it's like you have a broad and general based recruiter.

Keirsten Initially, I was a tech recruiter, because I started in 1999. Because of the area that I live in, a lot of companies were popping up and the way that I got into government contracting, was that the company that was one of our customers. They actually did not have a recruiting department. So they brought three of us over to be their internal recruiters instead of paying us that heavy fee that they paid for each hire. So then they just paid us salaries, then it saves them a lot of money. Somehow I transitioned that into the more Intel space, or the Intel portfolios for the companies that I worked for. But again, that work was very broad. It could be in a executive hire, it could be a contracts person, it could be a security person, it could, it could be an IT person or an engineer. So the only difference was, in a lot of cases, I was adding a clearance to the requirements for the jobs I was hiring against.

Jason Keirsten, you do both defense and civilian recruiting, correct?

Keirsten Yes.

Jason So what are some of the differences between the two is one easier or more challenging?

Keirsten Defense is definitely more challenging. Again, because you only have so many folks that are not only used to the culture of a defense contractor. Especially, when you're talking about people that are going to be sitting on site at a government site, or at a military installation. So that is a little bit more difficult when you add the caveat that they not only have to know the programs, and the little nuances of the culture, but they also have to have a security clearance

Jason Can you explain your passion for recruiting?

Keirsten I love helping people, there is a wonderful feeling that you get when you help someone get a job. I know what it's like to be unemployed. I didn't at the time that I started recruiting. I thought it was going to be more like a sales type of thing. I had this idea, the same that I think we see on memes now where you know, it's like what people think I do. It's like this lavish lifestyle, we're on boats, and yachts drinking champagne, and that's not really it. We really are doing work. So I had this idea of what it was going to be like to be a technical recruiter. But the more I got into the actual strategy of it, being a relationship builder, building trust, helping people get a job. Creating the organizational culture with the people that I was hiring, making sure I was hiring the best talent that we could. That's what really, you know, drives me and gets me excited every single day,

Jason What do most job candidates get wrong about working with a recruiter,

Keirsten Sometimes they can be a little bit abusive. Sometimes, if recruiters don't set boundaries, or if they try to be everything to everyone, and that's not just the candidates, but the hiring managers, or the customers that they're supporting, recruiters can sometimes get burned out. They think that we don't have anything else to do but attend to them.

Jason So some of them are expecting 24, seven access to you and that's not a reality, that's not realistic.

Keirsten It's not realistic, and I do my best, as I've gotten older and more mature to really be the one that sets those boundaries and cuts the lines of communication after a certain time. Because people will try to have access to you 100%. Especially, now you can email me which used to be the only way where you could call me and then we have cell phones. So you can call me on my cell phone, you can call me at work, you can text me, you can email me. Now you can reach out to me on social media and tell everybody in the world that I did not respond to you in a manner that you know, as timely as you would like. Now you've embarrassed me, and you probably talked yourself out of a job because maybe I was busy. I just didn't get to you yet. Or maybe your timeline wasn't my timeline. There's a lot of ways that a recruiter has to be very, very aware of how they are managing their time and the people that have access to it.

Jason I have to think if a candidate has a recruiter on their side, that's really the best thing for them. Because everyone will change jobs eventually. If you have a recruiter on your side. They call you and say, I'm probably leaving my job in six months. That has to be a value add for that person, I would think.

Keirsten It definitely is. I think the biggest challenge that I have, from speaking in general terms. There are always those one offs, but it's with the people that know me personally, and my family is the ones that take the most advantage. Because I get crazy requests of things to do because I have certain accesses to stuff and I'm just like, no, that's not appropriate. Like, don't ask me to do that. I'm not doing that for you. Or, you know what, I don't have time to do that right now. Because I do actually have a job that makes me do the things that you're asking me to do.

Jason Keirsten how often is it that a hiring manager gives you a job to fill. You send them some candidates based on the requirements and then the hiring manager says that they are changing the requirements. How often does that happen?

Keirsten A lot. It happens a lot in organizations that are new, and I'm working in an organization as 100% new. I was actually hired to staff the organization completely. That group of people I should say because it is a large company, but this group is new. So there is not a lot of confidence in what they need. Because there's no precedent already set and the things that went wrong with the previous group there. I think they're far too focused on not repeating those mistakes. That they're not really looking at what went right and what can we replicate? How can we move things forward quickly. So it happens to me, unfortunately, a great deal where I'm revising things. I'm redoing things, most of the time, it's because of the level of the position that they described. They put out one thing, and I think they want it to get away lot of responses, or see what they get back. There's a lot of that, what will I get back, they cast a wider net, and then they start to draw it in. When we do find the right person, we end up having to do a lot of administrative work in the background to correct the level of the position. It is one of my pet peeves in recruiting because you don't level people, I feel like you level up level positions.

Jason Most of the companies that start off hire the people they know. But that person probably isn't the best person to do marketing and they usually hire people that look like them.

Keirsten Yes.

Jason How do you convince people that maybe your best buds not the best marketing person. Maybe look for other people who don't look like you. How do you convince people to do that?

Keirsten It's not easy. We talk a great deal about diversity, inclusion, and equity today, every single day. I have added. I believe in deliberate diversity, I believe in intentional inclusion. I think a lot of people are deliberate in wanting to have a diverse workforce. They're intentional in going to diversity, job fairs, or reaching out to veteran organizations or going to different conferences. Bringing in interns every summer. So they're intentional, but they don't empower and allow for equity to come into the organization. So that's why they lose a number of their diversity hires Whey can't retain diversity hires at the rate that they would like, and why the workforce remains, you know, very, very, very, for lack of a better term. Vanilla.

Jason Tell us something about owning your own business that you did not expect.

Keirsten I did not expect to do so much work that has nothing to do with recruiting. I have always been adamant that I did not want to be branded as a recruiting agency. But there are so many things that go into owning a business, but I just was not prepared for and I just was not ready for.

Jason So from your point of view, what makes someone a great recruiter?

Keirsten Number one, I think passion for recruiting, you really have to, to love it, you have to have a very thick skin. You have to be able to change your course very quickly. You're not going to be able to follow a script every single day. You're not going to be able to be a to z one to 10 methodical, methodical every single day. You are going to have to change your priorities over and over and over again. If you can become okay with that, with having multiple personality disorder and OCD pressed upon you, then you're going to be a great recruiter.

Jason Keirsten how often or what percentage do people ask you to do something unethical? or illegal? How often does that happen? As a recruiter.

Keirsten I don't get those because I come from an environment that was highly bureaucratic. Where we did have to follow a lot of rules. Sometimes I felt like there was a lot of self imposed governance that I myself was trying to get away from. Trying to get around to make my life a little bit easier, not that I was doing anything unethical or illegal. But I think some of the controls that we put into the process can sometimes make things more difficult than they should be. I don't get any outright blatant requests to do something illegal. If I get something that is unethical or that it's out of compliance, I'll say that is probably the word that I will use. If I get something that that's not compliant, we'll make it compliant. If at all possible, for example, we know that we want to hire Joe Smith for this role. But our policies and procedures say that we have to interview three people. So we interview three other people and we do that. But I'm also the one that's trying to make people be aware that no, I didn't give you just three people that I know you weren't going to hire. I gave people that could either build the pipeline or them may knock Joe Smith, out of the running for this position. I'm going to do my due diligence. So I don't allow any, anyone any organization to put me in a situation where I don't feel like I'm being morally sound. Now, I won't do that.

Jason So from my point of view, I think it's easier to find a job nowadays. The reason because before when I was coming up, it was newspaper ads? But nowadays you can go to the website. Companies advertise jobs on Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram. There are all these places people can find jobs. So do you think it is easier or harder for people to find jobs now?

Keirsten I think it's easier for people to get connected to companies. But it's not necessarily easy to fill the jobs. But if we're not filling them with the right people. I think it's, it's up to the organization's to make sure that we are doing enough to say what kind of workforce we're going to want in the future, not just for today.

Jason Keirsten in your time in recruiting? What have you seen the candidates consistently do wrong? Then what do you do when you see the companies do wrong when trying to fill those jobs?

Keirsten Candidates, I think they sometimes for me, they oversell just because of the industry that I'm in. I think they oversell themselves. They put too much on the organization in terms of what they're going to do for them. I think organizations are a little bit naive in the sense that they don't think that employees will ever leave them or that the employee needs them. So they're like you need I think that's the change that's happened in the workforce completely is that it's no more of what can you do for me, it's what can I do for you?

Jason I mean, at will works both ways, right?

Keirsten It does.

Jason Can you talk a little bit how recruiters are paid?

Keirsten Well, I have been a corporate recruiter most of my life, so I was paid like an employee. You get bonuses for meeting goals. There are third party recruiters that can be retained for specific roles. They would get a percentage of the higher salary paid by the organization. There are recruiters that get paid by job seekers to help them find a job who actually go out and look for jobs for them. There are recruiters who are on retainer who make a monthly or quarterly amount for supporting an organization and giving them candidates across different positions. Then there are recruiters who help people who supply contingent workers or temporary workers. They get paid a percentage of a person's bill rate, they get a bill rate, and they end that company pays the employee,

Jason I'm guessing the best method depends on the recruiter and another variables.

Keirsten It depends on number one the position. So there's an abundance, you will always have work filling, manual labor jobs. There's a lot of those, and it helps the organization and it helps, those third party recruiters stay employed to hire their people on a temporary basis. Especially, when you don't have an organization that's very competent in their hiring practices. It's better to do that, that temp to perm type of deal. So that you get to try and buy before you commit to the person. Those companies are the ones that are doing the work for you. So you again, they are they're keeping a pipeline. If Joe Smith doesn't work out, then they can send Amy Jones.

Jason Keirsten, I understand you have something for our listeners today.

Keirsten Yes. So one of the things that I offer through Trap Recruiter, LLC is career coaching. I will offer a 20% discount on for say, 10 of your listeners. If they sign up for career coaching sessions.

Jason Keirsten, can you share your social media with us so people can reach out to you?

Keirsten I can be found everywhere. Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. Did I miss any? @traprecruiter

Jason For our listeners will have the links her gift offer and her social media links at www.cavnessHRblog.com Keirsten we are coming to the end of our talk. Can you provide our listeners any last minute advice on any subject you want to cover?

Keirsten For recruiters, I want to encourage all of us to please just be good people. We are the ones who are creating the culture and organizations. If we aren't doing our due diligence and bringing in the best people and doing good hiring practices. Then we are going to continue to have trash garbage companies like we have now. So let's just be better people. Let's not continue bad behaviors that we see all over an let's try and change the perception of what a recruiter is.

Jason Keirsten, thank for your time today. I really appreciate it. You have done a lot of great things for everyone. Thank you very much.

Keirsten Thank you.

Jason To our listeners. Thank you for your time as well and remember to be great every day.

Be sure to connect with us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok at cavnessHR. Also check out our weekly live streams at the cavnessHR Facebook, Twitch, YouTube and Periscope, where we focus each week on an entire topic important for small business. Every Wednesday at 9 am PST. To join our weekly HR email newsletter list. Send us an email to [email protected] Thank you and remember to be great every day.

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The cavnessHR Culture Podcast – A talk with Larry Naylor – President/COO of Naylor 2 Enterprise, LLC (N2E) – SDVOSB

https://www.cavnessHR.com

Larry's Social Media!!

Website: https://www.naylor2enterprise.com/

Larry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ldnaylor/

Larry's Resources!!

For anyone that reaches out to us. Let us know that they're looking for an opportunity to receive some awesome transformational leadership initiatives in their organization. If they contact us and let us know that they heard this in relation to this podcast, we are going to provide discounts to them for that.

Daniella Larry is the President and Chief Operations Officer for Naylor 2 Enterprise. N2E is a Veteran and Minority-owned small business that provides corporate training, development and administrative management consulting services to U.S. and international organizations. At N2E, he's responsible for the conduct and business operations of global transformative leadership and consulting service initiatives. Earlier in his career, Larry gained extensive leadership experience while serving 20 years as a commissioned officer in the army, where you retired as a Lieutenant Colonel. He spent 13 years with L three Technologies, Inc, a $10 billion company where he was the Director of Training and operations for global trade and master trainer. Responsible for providing leadership training to 38,000 employee infrastructure. So Larry is like super leadership guy. He's probably the most qualified leadership guy we've had on our podcast so far. He's got a bachelor's, Master's, all kinds of training certificates, most recently got a coaching certification from Georgetown, I believe. Larry is very active in several different organizations, including the Society for Human Resource Management, Association of United States Army, and the Society for International Affairs. So Larry, can you tell us something that you are working on these days? That is super exciting?

Larry Absolutely Daniella, I would have to say several things are going on right now. But what most exciting is to be able to work specifically for a law enforcement agency. We are working to put together a leadership program. What that program does is it's transforming the department. To see that happening right in front of your eyes, where people from the sheriff down to the sergeant are realizing that there is a better way to do things and to watch them self transform. To recognize that wait a minute, I am. I am I'm different. Because I see myself now I'm, this is amazing. It's exciting, not barring the fact that leadership when you look at the essence of leadership, and when you sit people down and talk to them about the importance of it, and how you can see the lights come on.

Daniella It's so interesting that you mentioned law enforcement, and people tend to think of law enforcement teams, military teams, as some of these very high-speed organizations as Oh, they're just great teams, right? They're great teams, they have great leaders, they don't need to work on it. But you're saying that they do need to work on and they are working on it, which is great.

Larry Absolutely. I think most organizations realize once someone comes in, and there's a moment of silence, and it allows them to reflect on who they think they are, as opposed to who and what they should be. They do realize that we probably could do some changing here. Especially in law enforcement organizations. Maybe we should think about looking at another way of doing things, approaching people talking to people and things like that. I think the military is doing that and, of course, I'm a few years removed now. But I'm hearing out there in the winds that the winds of change are starting to blow where the old school military of because I said so is changing now to be more encompassing of the group. Bottom line the mission still needs to happen. But just because you ask others, instead of just telling them and commanding them. Once you ask them, they will probably follow you with the same zeal, purpose and commitment. Because they feel like you love them enough to ask them their opinion and allow them to do it. So I think that's where we're headed.

Daniella It's interesting, the bottom line is the mission still needs to happen in any corporation, right. But a strong culture and a strong team is going to get you to your mission so much faster. I think what the modern sort of leadership is starting to learn, and it's starting to realize. think in the military for the longest time in the in sort of the special disciplines, we already knew that. Right? So in intelligence, which is what I did, we knew that I can order how much can I order my guy to analyze and give me the best information? Not much, right? If he's not motivated to do it he can order a bare minimum of outcomes. But you can inspire kind of a lot more and if you let the experts live in their expertise like they will give you so much more information than you even want.

Larry Yeah, that's true. That is true.

Daniella Okay, so Larry, you became an Officer in the Army, the year before I was born. You retired a few years before I commissioned. Which means for the listeners that even though Larry and I are comrades in arms, we both served in pretty different militaries. As Larry kind of already alluded to. So Larry, as we heard, is now basically a leadership expert. He was telling me about some of the changes that he's noticed in the definition and practice of leadership over the years. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, whether that was your time in the military or your time in the corporate sector.

Larry So as you said, Daniella, I started out in 86 and my first assignment was in Germany. That's the whole Cold War era. I'm a 23 year old kid out of college. I was taught and bred to do what needs to be done, salute the flag, make it happen. I grew up through that time, from the wall, the Cold War, the wall coming down, and then through Gulf War One, and into 911 and deploying into Afghanistan, 101st, in 911. So I think my career spans a lot of different things in there. A lot in a short amount of time. In that 20 years, we went from cold war all the way to post 911.

Larry So what I've what I learned as I continue to mature in the military, I grew up in an environment where you just do what you're told to do. You don't necessarily question, you just execute. You do that, well, you succeed. Then you go to the next level, and you expect everybody under you to do the same thing and they execute and it just works. I will say, when I moved from Afghanistan, coming into the Department of State, I spent about five years there at State Department, I had just left Afghanistan, and I flew back to the United States. There I was, and the environment was different. The language was different and the actions were different.

Larry I struggled because I didn't understand that there was a transformation that was taking place from the military side to coming to the United States Department of State. The leadership styles were different and then from there, I went to corporate America. The leadership styles were absolutely different. I would say that I kind of lived through that to state government, local government, excuse me to federal government, and then to defense contracting. I realized that leadership is distinctly different in each one of those areas. But ultimately, today, after I had an opportunity to teach leadership, to, as you said, a 38,000 employee organization. I live leadership and probably didn't even realize how much you learn and gleaned out of being a military person over the years being thrust into it. Today, after understanding and believing that this is my calling, now. I do see that there are different ways to lead. I have started to look at the transformational leader.

Larry If you can't love me, you can't lead me. Now, most people would say, I don't believe in that touchy feely part of things. Just do what I say, well, love has a big meaning. Love means, do you love me enough to whereas the leader, would you sacrifice yourself for me. Would the leader sacrifice themselves, so others may gain versus sacrificing others so that they gain? That's one of the things that I think is really important. As we get into this new type of leadership, we start to realize that you can't lead the way you used to. We're in an organization, we're in a time where four generations are together, and therefore generations worth of fault. There are all kinds of diversity things that are going on now. That same square hold leadership is probably not going to fit in today's round hole. So I have started to realize that a lot of changes that are taking place in leadership, and we're at the cusp of this transformational leadership shift. It is great to be there and I have a lot to offer. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting in front of even more people and explaining to them and getting them to realize that there is an another more effective way lead people to the things that you want them to accomplish.

Daniella Now it's interesting, Larry, that you said people find talking about love and leadership to be touchy feely. Most people would probably categorize military leadership as not touchy feely. But the first thing we learn as leaders in the military is that leaders eat last. The whole concept of that is exactly what you said, you through eating last are signaling. I am willing to not eat if there's not enough food, which means, you know, going way way back to homo sapien fighting for food. I am willing to die for you are in modern day 2019, signaling to these people. I'm willing to die for you. Will you let me lead you? That's a very hardcore, not touchy feely concept.

Larry It's funny, you should say that Daniella, I use that term a lot. When I'm teaching leadership, leaders eat last. For some people, it's like what I have to eat first because I need to have nourishment to be able to lead the people. it is a sign of sacrifice, a sign of devotion to your people. So grasp that leaders eat last. So good, good point.

Daniella I think probably for all of us, you mentioned being a 23 year old kid right out of the Academy, right or out of ROTC?

Larry Out of ROTC, that's correct.

Daniella I had a similar experience 22 year old kid out of a commissioning program and you are obsessed with being the best. You think you need to outperform everyone else? How long do you think it took you to realize that being a leader was not about you, but was about your team?

Larry It's funny that you should ask that question because there is a paradigm in there. Back, in those days, there was the zero defect army. I mean, you have to be near perfect, or you walk on water, and you just get wet to the ankle. I mean, you had to be that person. So what it caused is this, do not mess with me, don't touch me, because I got to be perfect. So micromanagement was a huge thing. All kinds of things came into play that caused people to be that way. Now, that's one end of the pendulum. The other end was that people started to realize in that era, what it caused was people's inability to feel like they could make a mistake. Or feel like they can allow their people to do things and use their own intuitive nature and ideas. It created this environment where you just felt like you couldn't do anything other than got to be perfect. It's got to be spot on. It causes you to grow up in an environment and a culture where you struggle with making a mistake.

Daniella You're speaking to my heart because there's so much danger in the zero defect environment. By the way, it's still a zero defect environment for women in the military, and a lot of other industries, of course. But I am very glad to hear that these great leaders like you and leadership trainers are thinking about this.

Larry We're teaching a law enforcement organization here in a few days, called women in leadership. I am starting to realize even more as a black man. I used to feel like I've got to do 110%, just to be equal with everybody else. Now I'm thinking about what it must feel like sometimes and in a workplace environment, as a woman. Who is intelligent, who is absolutely capable of doing even more than many others. I wonder if they have that same feeling that I have that I really can't explain and articulate.

Daniella I think I can articulate it. So when you are a member, this of course my personal belief. When you are a member of a minority group, of which women are still considered one. You represent that entire group in a way that a member of the majority doesn't. So, for example, when you Larry, as a man in the military, messed up. Did something wrong made a mistake, you were Larry, the soldier making a mistake. When I mess up and make a mistake, this is why women shouldn't be in the military. Right? So Daniella Young had to carry the weight of representing all females on her shoulder in the military because we're such a minority there. You probably had this experience as a black man in corporate America or somewhere else that you represent all African American people in all of your actions. That is far too heavy of a burden for any of us to carry.

Larry Also with that, because it is true, where you feel like you are representing as a leader. You're representing the greater organization or people. So everything you do is going to maybe impress others that are watching to have a perception of everybody that's like you that. So it causes you to feel like you have to ensure that you present yourself the best at all times. Which comes back to part of that theme that works within you as as a leader where you feel that has to be the case, and you're constantly making sure you push yourself to do that. Because you're you're representing something much bigger than you.

Daniella I'd be interested to get your opinion on this. When you allow people to see holes that you have or places where you're not perfect? Well, other people might have skills in those areas that are on your team that have a specific skill in that area that you wouldn't have known about.

Larry There are five principles that I kind of adhere to, when I'm doing training. Empathy, esteem, support, share, and involve. Most of the time, leaders will give someone responsibility to do something. But because there's zero defect mentality, or they feel like it can't be done, as well as if I if we're not doing it. They tend to remove the responsibility to the individual. Because Okay, if they turn in a 50% solution, you're like, okay, I'll tell you what, I'll work on it from here. Most of your subordinates realize that's what you do. So they only do half anyway, because you know, you're going to take it and do it.

Larry But if you can figure out a way to involve your people, to where they take that as their own, and they actually feel great doing it. That's what makes the difference. A lot of times, leaders do not realize that you cannot function. These people are the wind beneath your wings. They are the literal air that you breathe. So if you do not empower them, and give them and involve them in the opportunities to do great things, without removing the responsibility, allow them to do it. If it's not done to exactly what your standard is, based on your perception of what right looks like, it's okay. As long as it's ethical and legal, moral and safe. Because what's going to happen, it's going to snowball, it's going to pay bigger dividends down the road.

Daniella Larry, we're gonna have to wrap up soon. Unfortunately, I know. We could go forever. We'll have to have you back on in the future.

Larry I would love it. Thank you.

Daniella So Larry, are you providing a gift or a discount for listeners today?

Larry Yes, I am. As a matter of fact, I would love to, for anyone that reaches out to us. Let us know that they're looking for an opportunity to receive some awesome transformational leadership initiatives in their organization. If they contact us, and let us know that they heard this in relation to this podcast, we are going to provide discounts to them for that.

Daniella Perfect, and

what's the best way to contact you, Larry.

Larry So the best way to contact us is if you would, you can go to our website, it's www. Naylor2 enterprise.com or you can actually look me up on LinkedIn, Larry Naylor, I'm out there. You can actually see a lot of the information that we have. But if you go to our website, you can see some of our capabilities in leadership and in coaching, as well as international and global trade compliance and things like that. We'd love to come and talk to your people. We love what we do. We're passionate about it, because it makes a greater greater America, greater culture, greater world that we're living in. So we're so looking forward to doing those types of things.

Daniella Perfect and all of the links and how to get in contact with Larry will be on our show notes, which are found www.cavnessHRblog.com. Okay, Larry, 20 seconds, what's one piece of advice for our listeners?

Larry One piece of advice for our listeners. Leading is an art form. Leadership is a gift, but the ability to portray that so that your people will follow is where the magic actually happens. So I would empower all of the leaders who are out there, and it goes back to the beginning of what I said. Leadership Is loving your people, sacrificing yourself so that others may gain. Then in the end, you will realize that was what you were set out to do from the very beginning. Leaders lead from the front and leaders eat last.

Daniella Larry, thank you for so much for sharing so much value on our show today. Can't wait to have you back on and thank you to all of our listeners Remember to be great every day.

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The cavnessHR Culture Podcast – A talk with Aubrey Armes, PHR, Chief Change Officer at Awaken Your Greatness

https://www.cavnessHR.com

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Aubrey's Social Media!!

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Aubrey's Resources!!!!

Listeners can go to my website at www.awakenyourgreatness.guru There's a couple leadership resources that are available. There's my crunchy conversation tool kit. It's 28 pages that will walk you through how to have any difficult conversations.

Whether it's at work or in your personal life It's free, please download it, please use it. It's super important that we have these conversations out in the world. I also have a team member profile available there as well. Where it's just a really good way to understand who you're working with. So you can work better with your people that you lead and that you manage. Both of those are free gifts available on my websites to your listeners.

Daniella Hi, this is the cavnessHR podcast and I'm your host, Daniella Young. Our guest today is Aubrey. Aubrey are you ready to be great today?

Aubrey I am thanks for asking Daniella.

Daniella Aubrey is a leader, business owner, trainer, speaker and a woman on fire about elevating leadership. Particularly women's leadership and changing how business is done. Her background is in leadership and human resources. She has served both as a direct employee as well as consulting with hundreds of organizations over the last 20 years on how to accomplish their business goals while tending to their greatest assets, their people. Having worked with large corporations for Fortune 50 companies, as well as smaller startups and everything in between. Aubrey is well versed in the challenges that business face today. She brings her fresh approach to help businesses do business differently in a way that feeds the people and the bottom line.

Daniella So before I even asked you what you're excited about. I just want to say I love that I love that last line in the bio that we've got to feed people and the bottom line. Because little known fact, they both matter. I've been talking about this a lot lately on our websites and on our blogs and all of this stuff. But you know, culture and profit are directly related to each other. Directly related to each other. Harvard published a study that said culture increases your profits 756%. This was a 22 something year study. So it's hugely, hugely effective. But you don't know what you're missing. If you don't work on it, right? It's very much like my background is security in the military. we only know what happened on Pearl Harbor because it happened, right? We wouldn't if we had avoided it, we wouldn't have known. So it's like you never know, really the downsides or the upsides of culture unless it's really bad or really good. So it's just one of those things that you have to be working on. So awesome. Love it. Aubrey, can you tell our listeners something that you are working on these days? That is super exciting.

Aubrey I would love to thanks for asking. I'm super thrilled to be here. So thanks for inviting me to be on your podcast. I feel honored to be amongst so many wonderful people that you've had on here. The really the big thing that I've been that's been working me and so that I've been working it and bringing it out to the world is going into organizations and teaching them how to have what I call crunchy conversations. It's those places, whether it's boundary setting and upholding those boundaries. Whether it's from the leadership down to their people. Or for the people up to their leadership, and really teaching people how to have these awkward, terribly uncomfortable conversations that are really essential to the organization's health and well being. That's the big thing that I'm really excited about. I offer those, both open format where anybody can come and then I also do specialized sports, business specific needs, and go on site and work with their teams. It's super rewarding.

Daniella That's great. I love I love crunchy conversations. Very, very Seattle, right? Because we're all about the hippies. Actually, one thing I really love about Aubrey, and if you're listening and not watching, you can't see her. But she has fun curly hair, purple glasses, amazing earrings made out of feathers, and she's wearing pink. All of these things are things that serious business women in the past, couldn't do and be taken seriously. So, but of course, she's this incredible, badass, 20 years of business experience, and she coaches business leaders. I love that. I love that our culture now is changing to where you can bring who you are to the workplace. That's what everybody should be doing. So thank you, thank you for being on our podcast. Thanks for showing up as you. Let's jump right into that executive experience as a woman with executive experience. I would love it if you could talk a little bit about exactly that, being a powerful woman in the workplace and she share your thoughts.

Aubrey First, I want to say it's not easy to be in an executive shoes period. It's less easy for, for women and particularly women of color. It's really difficult to show up in most of the business world is very masculine, it's very much the old, the old man's game. Historically, what women have done is they've tried to play the man's game and make themselves into men and adopt the way businesses is being done. I did that I was one of those women, I was sitting at the executive table and I was miserable. I mean, it was not uncommon to find me, literally hiding in the corner of my office where nobody can see me through the window crying, but trying to do it really quietly. So the CEO next door, couldn't me. It was so miserable, that I got to a point of, of I couldn't, I just couldn't do it anymore.

Aubrey Like my soul would not allow me to continue this masquerade of trying to be something or someone that I wasn't. I had a total and complete breakdown, I'll be really honest, I had a breakdown, I just was like, I cannot do this, and I will not do this anymore. That opened the doorway for a huge, like personal evolution of my own self. But I think in order for a woman to be powerful in the workplace, she has to feel powerful within her own self. There has to be a certain amount of personal work and personal development. So that I could do that piece and then reemerge confident in who I am confident in the skills and the value that I bring that I know my worth. I no longer question my worth anymore. I'm not like tiptoeing around that. I think that as women, particularly, it's so important for us to do our own personal work so that we can show up fully. Even when our voices quiver.

Aubrey Even when we muster up the courage to say the thing that needs to be said. Nobody else is saying in the room, to stand with your knees knocking and your voice quivering, and still stand there. And know that you have an impact, even if it doesn't feel like it. I just I think it's a important time for women to really elevate themselves and rise up and invest in themselves. As women, we need to rewrite our relationship with each other. You know, part of that old paradigm is we are conditioned to tear each other down. I see that in the workplace all the time, particularly here in Seattle tech is really big. I hear story after story after story of women in tech, about how they tear each other down. I'm just I have an invitation for everyone listening or watching particularly for the women. Let's rewrite that story and how do we stand next to a woman and support her in a way that really builds us all up. All women know how to build community, we know how to tend to the greater whole for the betterment of all.

Daniella What's so interesting about that is I think I really relate to what you're saying. I think that it's seen as a thing that women are catty, and women tear each other down. But I think so much of that comes from the outside. So I noticed during my time in the military, and I was a female officer. So that's fairly rare. percentage wise, right? Like, we're like 11%, or something. So people would come up to me like the men, whenever a new woman got to the unit, the men would walk into my office and say, Oh, have you gone and seen your competition yet. It was always funny to me, I'm like, No, I'm going to go meet my new friend, I'm going to go walk down the hallway and say hi to my new colleague. But it was interesting to me of this idea that women are going to fight with each other and it wasn't coming from the women. It was coming from the men.

Daniella Something else that I heard from you that I think, you know, it's kind of, it's so important for women to be able to be their whole selves in the workplace. So for the leaders listening that means when we say we talk a lot of equality right now, in our society. These movements for l women are equal, minorities are equal, diversity is good. That's all true, but equal doesn't mean the same. What has been in previous generations. It's women, you can be here you can be equal, but really you have to pretend to be a man. When in reality as leaders, we all need to realize that, like, know, and be a woman. We learn things completely differently and we need to be able to bring exactly who we are, to the table. Use that, because of course, that's the actual impact of diversity, right? Or the value of diversity is your entire your entire life experience.

Aubrey Well said. I think it's, it's not a better than or worse than to you. So I want to be really clear. I'm not proposing here that women are better than men. What I'm sayin is that women in the wholeness of their womanness, an element is missing in business. It's an element that is leading to where we're at in business and why business needs to be done differently and I can go on and on.

Daniella Absolutely. Well, and there's so many ideas that have just never been thought about right. So I love you know, two great examples is Rent the Runway and then Sara Blakely's Spanx. That were two ideas that were scoffed at by men in the industry. Sara Blakely tells the story where she couldn't figure out why hosiery was so uncomfortable. Until she couldn't get anyone to make her prototype because the entire hosiery industry was only men. Then she had a light bulb moment, she was like, Oh, this is why hosiery is so uncomfortable, because it's conceived of and made by people that don't spend 12 hours a day in it.

Daniella She, of course, made her product, owns her entire company by herself, because nobody believed in it. Now she is a billionaire. Similar story with Rent the Runway. It was this idea that the ruling business elites could not even understand, because it was a product for 30 year old women, and they were not 30 year old women. Now it's the unicorn, now it's the newest billion dollar company which is amazing. There's just so many opportunities like that. We saw it in the military, we put women in combat, how quickly that changed our our positive outcomes. e see that like you said, in Seattle, we see that in tech, oh my god, right, with the differences, the changes that women make in the tech industry, which is amazing. When we talked earlier, you mentioned you work with clients on changing the way that businessis done, tell us about that process?

Aubrey Well, I first I want to say that has to be the correct kind of clients. I'm actually picky about who I work with, there's a certain foundation of who I will even entertain working with. It has to be the kind of client that genuinely they want to do good. They want to do good by their people and they want to be a good leader. As they're sitting in their business, and they're looking around. Usually it's reflected in their bottom line. So they're seeing it in their financials, they're seeing it in a personal way, like how it just feels to go to work. They know that something isn't, isn't working. But they have no idea what to do or what to fix it. So that's the starting point is there has to be a genuine desire to be to be a great leader and to build a great company.

Aubrey Then from there, you can talk about changing how the business is done. So there has to be a certain openness and willingness first and foremost. I find that those leaders that they're so they're so hungry for it. I'm a pretty intense person, I have stamina and going power, and I can just go go go. I have to really gauge my clients and say, Hey, you get to tell me when enough's enough for today. You could just say no. and my way is I ask them. I say I have something for you. Do you want to hear it right now? They have full permission and autonomy to say yes or no or no, I've had enough of you today. Thank you very much go find somebody else to work with today. Which happens to, there has to be that willingness. From there, what I do is I do that executive coaching upwards. When you're sitting at the top, it's really lonely up there.

Aubrey People might complain about what you do, but nobody's actively working with you to help grow you. I insert myself into the middle of the business, and I grow the top level executives up through the executive coaching. I work downward to their next level of leadership and I serve as a bridge. I know with the president, the CEO, or whoever is really wanting for their business. Then I become an extension of them. I get deployed out to work really in depth with their teams, to coach to elevate to problem solve, to brainstorm, and then bringing them together. Making sure communication is happening. Because often businesses are so fast paced, that communication is not happening. Which leads to some of the frustration that's happening in the organization.

Aubrey Then I work with the employee group to raise them up as well and really speak to here's what we're creating here. Is everybody so busy, like making the widgets of the business, right? No, but there's usually a lack of a leadership voice of saying, here's our vision. Here's what we're creating, and every day speaking to that, and that's how you grow a business. Then I get in there and do like hands on technical stuff. So it might be crunching numbers with people it might be looking at financials with the CEO or the president. It might be like elbows deep working side by side with one of the leaders to help them fix the problem. So it's not as though I'm a consultant, just telling people what to do. I work with them. Then I actually get in there side by side and do it with them. Then I bring in some of the personal development stuff, where we talk about growth mindset, and we'll do lunch and learns with the staff to really help them understand what is the growth mindset? versus the fixed mindset? How does that apply to their business? What's their biggest business challenge and how can we take this concept and actually apply it to the challenge and actually moved the needle into it quickly?

Daniella That's such an important part, right? Is the there's a lot of abstract concepts. We're talking about how, for example, everyone says, You got to start with values, right? What are your values? What are your company's values, that's a very abstract concept. Actually, what people like, well, both you and I do with clients, right is show them here's what that means. Here is a physical tangible example of how you take a value and use it when you're making decisions. Then also, the other thing I heard you talk about was getting in there with the leaders and sort of helping be their guide. This has kind of been a theme I've been hearing a lot lately that it has to be the right kind of person.

Daniella That really, what it comes to, I believe, is that the best leaders study leadership, and the best cultures come from people that study culture and care about culture. It has to come from that person, and I hundred percent agree with you, like, if it's not the right, not the right client for you. Or if you're a business leader, and it's not the right coach for you, Or you're not the right business leader, for them, it's not gonna it's not really going to work , and with, with culture and leadership, specifically, it's very interesting to me. As I talked to all these different guests, because I think iit's like psychology and therapy, like the people that need it the most are never going to get it because they don't even know that they need it. So the people that I'm sure you find this with your clients. The people that seek you out and want your help, you sort of mentioned this already, they already know there's a pain point. They're already seeing it in their in their financials, and they know that this sort of what some people consider to be soft, woohoo, stuff. That is a culture and leadership and personal development is a actually really hardcore stuff that is affecting their day to day business.

Aubrey It's super hardcore stuff, it takes a lot. It takes a lot for somebody to be willing to look at their stuff, their own styles, and instigate that change and stick to it to build those new habits. As you're talking about the right fit, whether it's the right fit for a client or the right fit for a coach. It's making that into the business place. I think that this is a place where leaders can grow is they need to be more discerning about who's the right fit for their business, and to not tolerate bad behaviors. That's a big piece that I see out there, especially right now is being an HR, there's this talent shortage. They're like, if you're breathing we will take you is what a lot of businesses are doing because they're so desperate. Well, that's a reflection of leadership, if you have great leadership, you're going to have great talent.

Daniella I think so important to re emphasize this point of you need the right people. You have to be the right people for your company, or your leadership style. Just because they're not the right people for your company, doesn't mean they're not great, amazing people that will be right for somewhere else. I compare it sometimes with my clients to dating, right? Like, women get told a lot that they're too picky, especially professional women, right? The answer to that is well, you only need one. You're only looking to find one. Of course, all of this work that you do with the leaders is just going to help them become more and more self aware about who they are. What are their values, but also their business values are which I'm sure you would agree, right helps them find the right people?

Aubrey Well, absolutely. Even helping that's part of that, like side by side work that I do with them. Let's identify who is the correct person for you to hire and bring into your business. So when you're hiring new people. Are we hiring, not necessarily the most talented person or the smartest person or any of those things? Like I let them take care of the technical aspects and I really focuse on the person, do they have the kind of mindset that will allow them to help you grow your business? Are they willing to be in these crunchy conversations? Are they willing to instigate them and have them and speak up? Because if we don't have people that are willing to speak up, you're not going to grow your business and maintain it the way your vision is and your desire? I just I think being picky is good. We want to pack that a little bit to make sure you're being picky for the correct reasons and in the correct way.

Daniella Because you definitely want to make sure you're not being picky just to hire only people like you. Because that of course creates an even worse problem. I do just have to point out that if you're not watching the video, you probably don't see this. But our Aubrey's title is Greatness Guru, which is phenomenal. We've had man we've had the Executive Shaman, we have the Greatness Guru. I love these titles. That's so awesome. I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk for like a minute about Women's Business Organization.,

Aubrey Absolutely!!! So WBO is the Women Business Owners Organization, it's here locally in the Seattle;Bellevue area. It is a phenomenal networking group of high powered women that come together. We have a couple events we do every month. It's really about building relationships, and supporting each other. It's not one of those where you get sold to or anything like that. It's really powerful women coming together to support other powerful women and enjoying ourselves along the way. So WomenBusinessOwners.org for anyone who's interested. We do a lunch and a happy hour every month. Come see me there.

Daniella Yes, I need to make it to one soon. But networking for women by women. Aubrey our time is basically over it went super fast. It always does because all my guests are just so great. Were you providing a gift or discount today for listeners?

Aubrey I am so if the listeners can go to my website, so it is awakenyourgreatness.guru So again, we're changing how business is done. So awaken your greatness guru, they can go on there. There's a couple actually leadership resources that are available. There's my crunchy conversation tool kit, it's 28 pages that will walk you through how to have any difficult conversations. Whether it's at work or in your personal life and applies there to. It's free, please download it, please use it, it's super important that we have these conversations out in the world. then I also have a team member profile available there as well, where it's just a really good way to understand who you're working with. So you can work better with your people that you lead and that you manage. Both of those are free free gifts available on my websites to your listeners.

Daniella I'm downloading that right now. What is the best way to connect with you on social media?

Aubrey Instagram has been my favorite place to hang out lately. So you can find me on Instagram at greatness_guru.

Daniella I need to learn more about Instagram myself. I'm gonna go connect with you. Listeners, please connect with her if you heard stuff that you liked and want to engage more. She's so energetic and inspiring. Thank you so much. All of the links will be available. Everything she mentioned all the links all the different ways you can connect with her on social media will be available in the show notes and those are found at www.cavnessHR blog.com Thank you so much Aubrey and remember to be great every day

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Jonathan Mills is the founder of Corporate Culture Specialist, an organizational culture strategist, and Agile change expert. Formerly an IT process and automation developer for clients at Department HS and DOJ, he leverages the connection between process design and

meaningful purpose. The apex result is values-based culture strategies and Agile implementation, delivering iterative short-term wins that lead to lasting change.

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Dr. Krystal White, is a leadership psychologist that improves the performance of organizations, teams and individuals. She facilitates programs that raise the efficiency of leaders, assesses and enhances team dynamics, and is a motivational speaker, coach and consultant for forward leaning transformational corporations. She is also Author of "The Letter Code: Deciphering Why You Love the Way You Love"

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Sarah Morgan is a practicing HR Professional with nearly 20 years' experience in the light industrial and retail industries. She currently the Chief Excellence Officer of BuzzARooney LLC, where she provides consulting and coaching surrounding organizational culture, comprehensive health & total wellness benefits, and executive leadership. Sarah still also serves as an active HR practitioner as the Senior Director of Human Resources for an international home security dealer headquartered outside Raleigh NC.

Sarah has Bachelor's Degree in Communication Studies with a focus on Organizational Communication and Leadership from the University of Richmond as well as a Master's Degree in Human Resources Management from Strayer University.

In 2011, Sarah began blogging under the pen name "Buzz Rooney," a spin on her childhood nickname. Then in 2013, she made the decision to retire the nickname and cartoon avatar; she began to write and speak under her real name. Her blog, The Buzz on HR, is now 8 years old and has over 10,000 subscribers. Sarah has also amassed more than 20,000 followers across Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn.

In 2017, Sarah created the #BlackBlogsMatter challenge, a 28-day writing challenge about the unique hurdles faced by African-Americans and Women in the workplace. The challenge has continued as a hashtag movement that keeps driving conversation and sharing about diversity, inclusion, equity, fairness and belonging in our workplace and world. In 2019, Sarah added #BlackPodsMatter to her hashtag movement arsenal to expand the conversation to include the growing area of podcasting.

Also in 2019, Sarah launched her podcast, Leading in Color, where she provides advice and interviews experts about cultivating intentional, positive workplace experiences and environments thru a lens of diversity, equity, fairness and inclusion.

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"David Endean is an entrepreneur, based in Silicon Valley, working at the intersection of people and technology. Before building an enterprise software platform that helps companies measure employee engagement levels, he built a psychometric evaluation that helps individuals better communicate their humanistic skills. When not engaged in this work, David can be found training for and racing triathlons, including the famous Ironman World Championship in Hawaii."

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Erin began being an entrepreneur in 1989 when she realized that she had a penchant for doing things "her way". Charging ahead 3 decades and 4 businesses later, she now is the very humble and proud owner of Zephyr Recruiting LLC.

As with all her businesses, Zephyr is a disruptor, bringing the human element back to finding the right match for their clients. All recruiters say they source "top talent", but Zephyr does not make this ridiculous and unrealistic claim. Instead Zephyr's claim is that they will be a match-maker for the right fit for you, your team, your company's values and culture, and for where you want your company to go.

They only work with small businesses, purposefully giving them a leg-up in this competitive job market.

Erin is driven by her mission of eradicating toxic workplaces in the small business community. And she comes to us today by way of Cleveland, OH where she lives with her daughter, her husband, their dog and a huge family of deer that live part-time in their yard.

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For this episode of the cavnessHR podcast, the CEO/Founder of cavnessHR and the host of the cavnessHR podcast, Jason Cavness is interviewed by Megan Torgerson of Business Impact NW. The mission of Business Impact NW is to grow businesses that create jobs in underserved communities.

Be sure to listen for our special offer for companies within Business Impact NW.

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Our guest on the cavnessHR podcast is Cory McKane. In 2015: The story of PerFIcT (the former name of WeStrive) begins in Cheney, Washington. The idea of creating a social personal training app sounded like an easy task at the time...but Cory, discovered just how hard his journey would be.

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