My guest today has an incredible new documentary coming out this November called Crime and Punishment in America. It's a four-part, 8 hour review of the history of crime and incarceration dating back hundreds of years all the way to today (I was fortunate enough to get a preview). 

Lynn Novick (The Vietnam War, College Behind Bars, The Us and the Holocaust) is the writer and director of this terrific new documentary and she sat down with me to talk about everything from where the idea to cover such an expansive subject came from to what it's like working with such tremendous talent to make history come to life. 

This conversation is a great look into documenting the complexities of the American criminal justice system. Give it a listen and be sure to catch the new film when it comes out in a few months!

Lynn Novick has been making landmark documentary films about American life and culture, history, politics, sports, art, architecture, literature, and music for more than 30 years. As director and producer, she has created more than 100 hours of acclaimed programming for PBS in collaboration with Ken Burns, including most recently their six-hour series, The U.S. and The Holocaust, (co-directed and produced by Sarah Botstein) which received the Alfred I. DuPont Columbia Award and the Television Academy Honors award. Novick’s films  include The Vietnam War, Ernest Hemingway, Prohibition, Baseball, Jazz, Frank Lloyd Wright, and The War --  these landmark series have garnered 19 Emmy nominations. Novick herself has received DuPont, Emmy and Peabody Awards. 

When crime rises, the instinct is usually to hire more officers, increase enforcement, and ask police departments to do even more. But after spending years investigating police departments and working on reform efforts across the country, my guest today has started asking a different question…

What if we’re asking policing to do too much in the first place?

Christy Lopez is a professor at Georgetown Law, former DOJ Civil Rights Division attorney, and one of the leading voices on policing reform and alternative public safety responses.

In this episode, we talk about the limits of traditional police reform, why consent decrees have struggled to produce lasting change, and what it would look like to build a more diversified public safety ecosystem instead of relying almost entirely on law enforcement.

Christy Lopez is a Professor at Georgetown Law, where she teaches courses on policing, criminal procedure, and civil rights, and is the Faculty Director of Georgetown's Center for Innovations in Community Safety. Prior to going to Georgetown in 2017, she was at the U.S. Department of Justice where she led the Division's group conducting pattern-or-practice investigations of law enforcement agencies.

One of the hardest things for any mayor to do is convince people that a problem can actually be solved.

That may sound obvious, but when a city has struggled with violence for decades, cynicism starts to set in. Residents get frustrated. Headlines get harsher. And people assume that high levels of violence are simply part of life.

My guest today rejects that idea.

Quinton Lucas has served as mayor of Kansas City since 2019, a period that included both record levels of violence and, more recently, significant declines in homicides and shootings across the city .

In this episode, we talk about how Kansas City approached violence reduction and how to communicate complex solutions to an intractable problem.

Born and raised in Kansas City's inner city, Quinton Lucas serves as the 55th mayor of Kansas City, the youngest person elected to the role since 1855. Recognizing the importance of safety in our communities, Mayor Lucas serves as national chair for criminal justice efforts in the United States Conference of Mayors and as an advocate to reduce gun violence on America's streets as co-chair of Mayors Against Illegal Guns. 

“We should treat gun violence like a public health problem” is a phrase that is often used but rarely defined. 

My guest today is Dr. Megan Ranney, an emergency physician, injury prevention researcher, and the Dean of the Yale School of Public Health .

She sees firearm injury as part of a much broader health issue, one that affects not just the person who was shot, but families, communities, health care providers, and the systems that are supposed to respond afterward.

In this episode, we talk about what a public health approach to firearm injury actually means, why that framework is often misunderstood, and how public health researchers think about prevention differently from the way these conversations usually happen in politics or media.

Dr. Megan Ranney is Dean of the Yale School of Public Health, a practicing emergency physician, and leading voice for innovative approaches to public health. For more than two decades, she has worked on the frontlines of emergency medicine, caring for patients impacted by firearm injuries, overdoses, and other preventable crises while advocating for solutions that bridge science, policy, and public trust. Her work focuses on rebuilding the connection between science and society and advancing evidence-based solutions that help people live longer, healthier lives.

The national conversation around gun violence tends to revolve around what laws should be passed next. But a lot of the work of reducing violence doesn’t happen in Congress. It happens in cities, hospitals, community organizations, police departments, schools, and increasingly through coordination between all of them.

My guest today is Rob Wilcox, the president and CEO of the Fund for a Safer Future and the former deputy director of the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention.

In this episode, we talk about what it was like helping build such a critical office from the ground up, how he tried to approach gun violence as more than just a legislative issue, what happens when the federal government starts thinking about violence reduction as an operational challenge instead of simply a political one, and what the future of gun violence prevention should look like.

Rob Wilcox joined the Fund for a Safer Future in 2026 as its first President & CEO. He previously served as co-deputy director of the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention in the Biden-Harris Administration, where he built a track record of turning evidence-informed strategies into real-world results. In that role, he led the implementation of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act and helped to shape over 50 executive actions. Prior to his White House service, Wilcox served in a senior role at Everytown for Gun Safety, where he worked on state and federal legislative efforts. His personal connection to the issue—his cousin Laura was killed in a workplace shooting in 2001—has driven his commitment to evidence-informed solutions for more than two decades.

Fund for a Safer Future is a national network of over 30 funders pooling expertise and resources to help end gun violence. FSF is making grants to support policy, research, communications, and community-led efforts that save lives. The collaborative model brings more funders into the movement, lifts evidence-informed solutions, and backs the organizations working every day to keep communities safe.

For decades, the response to rising crime has been fairly predictable: increase penalties, increase sentences, and hope it works. My guest today says that framework misses the point.

Greg Newburn is the Director of Criminal Justice at the Niskanen Center, where his work focuses on reducing both crime and punishment at the same time through evidence-based policy .

In this episode, we talk about why the criminal justice system may have been built around the wrong theory of deterrence, why certainty matters more than severity, and what it would look like to design a system focused less on increasing punishment and more on increasing the likelihood that crimes are actually solved.

Greg Newburn is director of criminal justice at the Niskanen Center. His previous positions include state policy director and Florida director for FAMM and chair of the Florida-based 'Yes on 11' political committee. He is a graduate of the University of Florida and the University of Florida Levin College of Law.

Most debates about crime policy are framed as a choice. You’re either tough on crime or you’re not. You focus on enforcement or prevention. And the answers tend to sound simple.

But once you move from talking about crime to actually trying to reduce it, things get more complicated, requiring nuanced solutions to complex problems.

My guest today is Neera Tanden, president and CEO of the Center for American Progress and a longtime policy advisor who has worked across multiple administrations, including serving as domestic policy advisor in the Biden White House.

In this episode, we talk about what crime policy looks like from inside that system, what we’ve learned from the last few years, and why approaches focused on accountability and prevention don’t have to be in conflict.

Neera Tanden is the president and CEO of the Center for American Progress and the CEO of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. Before leading American Progress, Tanden was the Domestic Policy Advisor to President Joe Biden and director of the Domestic Policy Council, overseeing some of the administration’s signature achievements, including its efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs and expand health insurance coverage. Previously, she was Senior Advisor and Staff Secretary in the White House.

Tanden helped found American Progress, first working as senior vice president for domestic policy and later as chief operating officer. She ran the organization from 2011 to 2021, adding 10 policy teams and growing the budget by two-thirds. Previously, she has served as senior adviser for health reform at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, policy director for Hillary Clinton’s first presidential campaign, legislative director in then-Sen. Clinton’s (D-NY) office, and a senior policy adviser to the first lady in President Bill Clinton’s White House. Tanden received her Bachelor of Science from the University of California, Los Angeles, and her law degree from Yale Law School.

What actually drives change on an issue like gun violence? Is it policy? Culture? Policing? Or something harder to measure?

To help answer that question I’m turning to Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Senator Murphy has been one of Washington’s leading voices on gun violence reduction, a passion that was shaped by his experience in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, where he spent time with families and saw firsthand the impact of that tragedy .

In this episode, we talk about the recent decline in gun violence nationally, what role federal legislation and local interventions may have played, and how the broader movement around this issue has evolved over time.

Chris Murphy, the junior United States senator for Connecticut, has dedicated his career to public service as an advocate for Connecticut families. Murphy has been a leading voice in the Senate, fighting for affordable health care, sensible gun laws, a forward-looking foreign policy, and a democracy and economy that serves working people. In 2022, he led the negotiations and helped pass the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, the first federal anti-gun violence bill in 30 years. 

Prior to his election to the US Senate, Murphy served Connecticut’s Fifth Congressional District for three terms in the US House of Representatives. During his time in the House, he worked to foster job creation, advocate for affordable health care for all Americans, and improve homeless veterans’ access to housing. Before being elected to Congress, Murphy served for eight years in the Connecticut General Assembly. 

Senator Murphy grew up in Wethersfield, Connecticut, and attended Williams College in Massachusetts before earning a law degree from the University of
Connecticut.

Answering the why of crime trends is frequently much harder than answering the what. The same data inevitably leads to very different explanations depending on how you interpret them and what you think is driving them, and there are rarely “right” answers.

The numbers are fairly clear, the reasons behind that are not. To get at some of the reasons why crime has trended as it as I’m turning to Charles Fain Lehman, a fellow at the Manhattan Institute who focuses on crime, disorder, and what he describes as the public policy of antisocial behavior.

In this episode, we talk through the differences in how we can explain what’s happening now, the role of policing and social factors, and how concepts like disorder shape how people experience safety in ways that don’t always show up in traditional metrics.

Charles Fain Lehman is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and senior editor of City Journal. He focuses primarily on the public policy of antisocial behavior, including issues of crime, drugs, and public disorder. His work has appeared in outlets including the New York Times, Atlantic, Wall Street Journal, and National Review, and he has discussed policy issues before the Senate, House of Representatives, and the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

Sometimes the hardest part about a crime isn't figuring out what happened — it's revisiting what's already been decided. Once a case is closed and a conclusion settles in, changing that can be just as difficult as investigating it was in the first place.

My guest today is Jill Collin Jefferson, a civil and human rights attorney and the founder of JULIAN, an organization focused on investigating modern-day lynchings. JULIAN works with families and communities seeking answers in cases that have often gone unresolved or unquestioned.

In this episode, we talk about how Jill approaches this work, how cases reach her in the first place, and what it takes to reexamine investigations that others have already moved on from. Jill walks us through the Willie Andrew Jones Jr. case in Mississippi, her arrest in Lexington while monitoring police, and the contentious relationships that come with exposing gaps in law enforcement investigations.

Jill Collen Jefferson, JULIAN’s founder and Executive Director, is a civil and human rights attorney who grew up in the racism and de facto segregation of rural Mississippi and was trained by the leaders of the civil rights movement. She was mentored by the great civil rights leader Julian Bond, the organization’s namesake, who taught her civil rights history and strategy. She earned her bachelor’s degree from the University of Virginia and her J.D. from Harvard Law School, where she is now faculty in its Trial Advocacy Workshop. She hails from a farm in southeastern Mississippi.