The Julie Norman Show

My guest for today’s season finale is Bob Karp (@BobKarpDR). Bob is a photographer whom I first learned about through his amazing photos of endangered lemurs at the Duke Lemur Center. I assumed Bob had always been a wildlife photographer, but in fact, he has over three decades of photojournalism experience, covering everything from Michael Jordan to 9/11, from Hurricane Sandy to Trump rallies and Black Lives Matter marches. Looking through his photos is like looking through a photo album of America.

Bob Karp has been up close and personal with a number of famous faces: Joe Biden, Taylor Swift, Mike Tyson, Bruce Springsteen… but the photos of his that interested me the most (beside the lemurs of course) were the pictures of everyday people in their everyday lives, sometimes in moments of unbridled joy, others in moments of unspeakable sorrow.

I wanted to have Bob on the show to talk about the stories behind these photos, about what photography captures but also what it leaves out, and how Bob has seen America unfold and change over the past years. And of course, we talk about the lemurs.

Bob Karp’s photography:

https://www.bobkarpphotography.com

https://www.dailyrecord.com/picture-gallery/life/2018/12/21/three-decades-images-daily-record-photojournalist-bob-karp/2391073002/

Book recommendation:

Let Us Now Praise Famous Men, by James Agee & Walker Evans

Kate Tomlinson is a nurse who specialises in palliative care. I wanted to talk with her more about why it’s so hard to talk about death, what it’s like being with people and their families in their last few months, and how society balances extending life vs. quality of life. We also talk about Kate’s work with Doctors Without Borders in central Africa, and how Covid has (or hasn’t) changed the way we think about both global health and mortality.

Recommendations:

The Poisonwood Bible, by Barbara Kingsolver

Being Mortal, by Atul Gawande

Eric Reidy (@Eric_Reidy) is a journalist and the migration editor-at-large for The New Humanitarian. He has reported extensively on migration in the Mediterranean as well as on humanitarian aid work and vigilante groups at the US-Mexico border.

In addition to the New Humanitarian, he has written for Wired Magazine, the New Republic, the Nation, Mother Jones, and the MIT Technology Review, among other outlets. He is the author of the award winning Ghost Boat – an investigative series about the disappearance of 243 refugees in the Mediterranean Sea.

I’ve wanted to have Eric on the podcast for a while to talk about both the issues he covers, and also how he covers them. His style of journalism is one you don’t see very often – long-form, character-driven, and usually based on weeks or even months of investigative field work in tough places.

In this episode, we talk about the worsening humanitarian situation at the US-Mexico border, Eric’s previous work on migration to the EU, what people get wrong about refugees, and why there are no easy answers to policy questions about migration.

Recommendations:

Beyond the Sand and Sea by Ty McCormick

The Ungrateful Refugee, by Dina Nayeri

Jennifer Chen (@jchenwriter) is a freelance journalist who has written for print and online media, including pieces in the New York Times, Oprah Magazine, and many other publications. Over the past year, she has written four articles on the rise of anti-Asian hate crimes in America since the start of the pandemic.

Jenn came on the JNS last summer to discuss attacks against the Asian-American Pacific Islander (AAPI) community, and I wanted to have her back on the show to discuss what’s changed (and what hasn’t) over the past year, and how people are coping and responding to the violence. We also discuss the impact of the Atlanta shootings, why hate crimes are hard to prosecute, and the complexities of race and racism in America.

Jenn’s Articles:

Georgia Senator Michelle Au Shares What You Can Do to Help the Asian American Community

How You Can Join the Stop Asian Hate Movement

Racist Attacks Against Asian Americans Are Still on The Rise During COVID-19

Yes, Calling Coronavirus “the Chinese Virus” or Kung-Flu Is Racist

Resources:

Stop AAPI Hate

Hate is a Virus

Recommendations:

Interior Chinatown, by Charles Yu

Minari, directed by Lee Isaac Chung

Joy Ride Newsletter

My guest today is Patrick Cacchione. He’s been working at the intersection of politics, religion, and health policy for the past three decades, and he’s one of my favorite people to speak with on these topics. Patrick has been a teacher, a writer, and has worked on Capitol Hill, but his main role for the past 30 years has been with the Catholic Health Association, an organisation that advocates and educates for health policy rooted in Catholic ethics and teaching.

I wanted to have this conversation for several reasons. First, I’m interested in what happens when religious freedoms and other civil liberties come into tension, and how we deal with that as a state and as a society. I'm also attracted to concepts and ideas that scramble our usual assumptions of polarisation, and Catholic health is one area that does that, with policy positions that don’t fall neatly along party lines. Finally, I’m fascinated by the moral foundations and ethical frameworks that orient people towards different policy positions, and how, even when we disagree, trying to drill down to those moral motivations might help us understand others’ positions a little bit better.

Book recommendation:

Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley

What are some of the competing ethical considerations that have defined how we respond to the pandemic?

Dr. Gry Wester is a Lecturer in Bioethics and Global Health Ethics at Kings College London. This year she was also a member of the Expert Group in Ethics and Priority Setting for Coronavirus Vaccination in Norway, essentially deciding the order in which people should get vaccinated.

Gry’s training is in political philosophy, and her work focuses on using philosophy and ethics to address real-world policy challenges, especially on questions related to justice, equality, and public health.

In this conversation, we talk about the different moral considerations that have defined both personal and policy choices during the pandemic, as well as broader questions about public health and social inequalities.

Recommendations:

Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl

Disadvantage, by Jonathan Wolff

Today my guest is Christopher Tutor, the Chairman of the Republican Party in Shelby County, Tennessee. Chris has lived a life of public service, trying to develop what he calls the ‘common good’ in his hometown of Memphis, including faith-based service, improving race relations, and working on a variety of community issues.

At a time when national politics are so highly divisive and polarized, I wanted to have Chris on the show to tell me more about what politics, and community in general, is like in Shelby County, and how his vision of the common good fits into that. This is a rich conversation that I really enjoyed, in which we talk about how local politics differs from the national level, what Democrats get wrong about Republicans and vice versa, the tensions and contradictions within both parties, plus race, religion, personal journeys, and much more.

Book Recommendations:

The Conservative Mind, by Russell Kirk

The Island of the World, by Michael D. O'Brien

My guest today is Tony McAleer (@mcaleer), the author of the book, The Cure For Hate: A Former White Supremacist’s Journey From Violent Extremism To Radical Compassion.

Tony spent 15 years in white supremacist and neo-nazi movements before eventually disengaging and co-founding the nonprofit organization, Life After Hate, which helps people leave hate groups.

I wanted to have Tony on the show to share his own story and insights on why people join extremist organisations, what keeps them in, and why and how they leave. But I also wanted to hear Tony's thoughts on violent extremism in the US today, especially in the wake of the Capitol riot and the renewed focus on far-right violent extremist organisations in particular. Is what we are seeing today something new? What can we do about it? And what are we getting wrong?

Book recommendations:

The Cure For Hate: A Former White Supremacist’s Journey From Violent Extremism To Radical Compassion, by Tony McAleer

The Kybalion

Films:

Healing from Hate

Auschwitz

This is the second of two episodes in my doubleheader kickoff to Season 2, which is starting in the wake of the Capitol riot, the second impeachment of outgoing US President Donald Trump, and ongoing tensions in the US and elsewhere.

This is a very timely conversation with Nathan Stock. Nathan is a Conflict Resolution Program Consultant at the Carter Center, a non-profit typically known for its work on peace-building and election monitoring overseas, especially in countries dealing with conflict or division.

In the past year though, the Center started focusing on the US, on preventing violence during and after the November elections. Nathan has been working on that project, meeting with local community leaders to help recognise deepening divisions, defuse tensions, and build resilience to potential violence. We discuss the potential but also the challenges and limitations of those efforts, and the extent to which lessons from other divided societies might apply to the US today.

Book recommendation: The Upswing, by Robert Putnam & Shaylyn Romney Garrett

I’m delighted to kick off this season with an incredibly timely conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Howard (@jeffhowarducl).

Jeff is an Associate Professor of Political Theory at UCL’s Department of Political Science, where he works on political and legal philosophy, focusing on the moral challenges facing citizens and policymakers.

Recently Jeff has been working on a project on “dangerous speech," exploring questions like, is there a right to incite? Is there a moral duty to refrain from dangerous speech? Is it right to restrict or punish dangerous speech?

Given our current political climate, in which outgoing US President Donald Trump was impeached last week on the charge of incitement, and was banned from top social media platforms because of dangerous speech, I couldn’t think of a better person to ask on the show than Jeffrey Howard.

Resources:

Jeff's paper on Dangerous Speech

Book recommendation: On Liberty, by John Stuart Mill