The Just 7 Steps Podcast

Everybody wants to have a better relationship with their children. Is there a way to guide your children to adult-level skills and abilities while maintaining a strong and positive relationship that can carry you both through the rest of your lives? It’s easy to become overwhelmed with how much we need to teach our kids, and that they’ll need to accept that life doesn’t always line up with their hopes, dreams, and desires. Children are a bit like unfinished products that need a ton of help and guidance as they grow. As babies, they rely on parents for just about everything and they can’t make it in the real world without you. However, your role changes as they age and start to communicate what they want and need.

Kids start to develop their own sense of independence, which continues and grows larger in their teenage years. The biggest challenge you’ll face as a parent is getting them through all the important stages of development while keeping a strong, positive bond and relationship. While focusing on attachment is important, bending to every one of their wants and desires isn’t the best way.  In our household, our parenting blueprint has enabled us to give our growing children perhaps more freedoms than other parents do, and it’s not because we’ve been overly permissive or only focused on attachment. In fact, it’s been more about setting appropriate boundaries and providing them with reasonable consequences. Here, I share some tips on how you too can create a positive, strong relationship with your kids that lasts a lifetime.

What’s Inside:

• Why focusing on attachment isn’t the only key to strong parent-child relationships.
• Why strict, authoritarian parenting takes a toll on your child’s feelings and self-esteem.
• The definition of a true, healthy parent-child relationship.
• The path to progress in creating a better relationship with your kids.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Just7Steps.com/Quiz

In part three of our conversation with BCBA Steve Ward, we continue our helpful and informative discussion about motivation. If you missed parts one and two, make sure you check them out. Steve’s been in the field since 1995 and has co-authored a total of five amazing books. We discuss the difference between prompting behavior and shaping behavior and knowing how to do both well is important. Here, Steve dives into the adjustment professionals need to make related to these two key processes and uncovers some of the nuances to help you discern between the two. Reinforcement sometimes involves a bit of creativity as motivation can look vastly different from child to child.

Steve and I have a discussion around intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and he explains the difference between the two. Ideally, our learners are motivated to do things because they appreciate the process, which could involve a sense of pride or that they’re aware of their own progress. External motivators are outside of a natural inclination to complete a task, and although they’re not always ideal, sometimes they’re necessary. We can wish for our kids to be intrinsically motivated to do things, like clean their room, but it’s more practical to introduce external motivators instead of waiting around for that natural drive. In many cases, external motivators can be tapered off as the child comes around to being intrinsically motivated. For example, kids eventually realize that a clean room helps them feel more organized and accomplished and as they get older, they’ll be more inclined to do it naturally.

What’s Inside:

• Prompting vs shaping behavior and what professionals need to know.
• A discussion on intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation.
• How to deal with resistance to using external reinforcement.
• Steve’s opinion on token economies.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Whole Child Consulting
Good Learner Repertoires on Facebook

Last week, we started our interview with BCBA, Steve Ward and we had an extremely interesting conversation. It lasted so long that I decided to break the interview into three parts, and you won’t want to miss any of them. If this is the first episode you’ve found, make sure to look at part one. Here, in part two with Steve, we discuss the common misconceptions of motivation. One is the assumption that contracts made can be sustained by positive reinforcement. However, sometimes, the real reason the task was completed was because they want to get it done with. For example, sometimes a child may empty the dishwasher and accept time with their phone afterwards, but they were motivated more by escape or avoidance.

Steve and I dive into conditioning new interests in children and how it could help in a program for a developing child. Some kids have a narrow range of interests and with that comes a risk of satiation. Having something else to switch to is key and we can use motivation to expand interests. We talk about some of the dangers and pitfalls of this as well, and it’s important to know what our kid’s “hook” is in order to make it work. Steve and I also discuss how the principles of ABA can be used universally and the importance of basic ABA knowledge, regardless of whether there’s a diagnosis. 

What’s Inside:

• Common misconceptions regarding motivation.
• The importance of conditioning new interests in children.
• How to introduce new interests and potential pitfalls.
• Using ABA principles and procedures for different types of learners.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Whole Child Consulting
Book - What You Need To Know About Motivation And Teaching Games: An In-Depth Analysis

Steve Ward is a long-time friend of mine. We started hanging out with each other at the ABA conferences, bonded over our love of music (Steve plays piano, I play harmonica and ukulele), and we bonded over our love of motivation as a concept in education. One of Steve’s quotes is on the back of my book, and I even mention Steve within the book as I tell a story about how he was one of the first people to introduce me to the advanced concepts of verbal behavior. Steve’s been in the field since 1995 and is currently the co-owner of Whole Child Consulting, LLC. With his clients, Steve addresses everything from early communication and physical aggression to locational opportunities and inclusion in college courses. He’s also the author of several books and has been featured in prestigious journals.

The topic of part one in this series is motivating operations, and I believe motivation is the secret sauce to all learning. Without understanding motivation, we’re often blind to the reasons kids may not want to engage or participate with us. Steve and I discuss how the motivation for teachers to instruct their students isn't the same source as the child has when it comes to paying attention and participation, which can lead to frustrations and challenges on both sides of the relationship. We talk about the signs of motivation in kids and what they look like. Steve also addresses some of the pitfalls and dangers parents and teachers can fall into when it comes to motivation.

What’s Inside:

• Why parents, teachers, and behavioral analysts need to understand motivation.
• How to identify motivation in children.
• Common motivation pitfalls and mistakes.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Whole Child Consulting
Book - What You Need To Know About Motivation And Teaching Games: An In-Depth Analysis

My goal for the Just 7 Steps Podcast is to help share the value of evidence-based behavioral education with a wider, more diverse audience. Every parent of every child should know the secrets of developing a great relationship with their child while still being able to guide them to become their best selves. Parents have one of the most important jobs in the world, but the truth is most parents aren’t given the useful, practical information they need to do the job effectively. Behavior analysis is the best tool we have in supporting education and raising our kids, but often it’s kept hidden behind complex language and a restricted view of how it can be used. My goal is to bring this information to you in clear, interesting, and useful ways.

Jon Przybyl is a bright and fun occupational therapist who received his undergraduate degree in Sport, Heath and Physical Education at Vancouver Island University in Nanaimo BC, Canada. He then went on to get his master’s in occupational therapy from the University of Manitoba. After graduating in 2016, Jon returned to Kelowna, BC, and began working for Meridian Rehabilitation Consulting Inc. where he worked as an OT from 2016-2021. There, he worked primarily with a mixed population. In March of 2021, Jon opened his own practice where he focuses only on pediatrics (kids ages 2-19).

Jon and I discuss how he integrated the 7-Steps into his therapy sessions, which made them fun and productive. He found that his sessions have fun participating in the various “trials”, and he’s also able to share valuable information with parents. When parents are able to use strategies at home, it makes carryover much more successful. Jon explains occupational therapy and its associated goals. He also shares his initial concerns with ABA and how the 7 Steps altered his opinion. We recap the 7-Steps, talk about which ones had the most impact, and much more.

What’s Inside:

• How Jon integrates the 7 steps into his therapy practice.
• What occupational therapy and associated goals.
• A recap of the 7 Steps and which ones had the biggest impact on Jon.
• How parenting his own children has influenced Jon’s work.
• The importance of relationships in therapy.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
JP Therapy

A Token economy is a motivation plan because it sets up contingencies that are designed to motivate and ultimately reinforce specific behavior. Does it immediately work for everyone? It would be great if it did but you have to utilize it strategically for it to really reinforce a specific behavior you’re working on with your child or student.

We’ve covered what a token plan is, how it works, and why it might not be working for you in part 1 and in part 2, I went step-by-step through the process of creating a token plan for yourself that is likely to avoid the common missteps and give you a strong motivational pull. We’re wrapping everything up today in this final part.

Today, we talk about how to get multiple sources of motivation through multi-level plans, how to start a smaller token plan for a child who is used to only working for immediate tangible reinforcement as well as my three levels (On-Off-In) of token acquisition that uses mini-consequences as part of the plan to help keep motivational pull for a child who is likely to try to take advantage of other plans.

If you have not listened to parts 1 and 2, be sure to check them out so you get the full picture of Tokens.

What’s Inside:

• Multi-level plans and how to get sources of motivation from them.
• The benefit of daily reinforcement.
• The On-Off-In token acquisition plan. 
• Resources to help with reinforcement, token planning & programs.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Just7Steps.com/school
Just7Steps.com/podcast
RobertSchrammConsulting.com
Motivation and Reinforcement book

Token plans are important, as they allow you to motivate your child without having to immediately offer cumbersome, tangible reinforcement for their good behavior. They allow you to teach your child about the world of earning and buying, and that effort equals reward. In part one of this two-part series, we discussed how tokens can be used to delay reinforcement in motivation plans. I also introduced token economies as a concept, explained their importance, and discussed some of the biggest mistakes that people tend to make when developing their own token plans.

In part two, I’ll be sharing the process of developing your very own token system. I discuss what you need to know, what you need to do, and what you need to assess to make sure you have one that is maximizing motivation for your child. I share how a token system can transfer value from the backup reinforcements and all of the steps you need to create a plan that offers maximum motivation. It starts by considering your goals and determining the behavior you want to motivate. Then, you’ll need to decide what to use as tokens. I share how to introduce your token plan to your child’s school and how to set parameters around how many tokens should be earned before reinforcement is provided. By the end of this episode, you’ll be equipped with everything you need to get started on a successful token plan. 

What’s Inside:

• How to develop your own token system.
• Steps to take to build a token plan.
• Ideas for potential tokens and how to set parameters.
• Common challenges when implementing token plans and what to avoid.https://just7steps.com/

Mentioned In This Episode:

Just 7 Steps YouTube
Just7Steps.com/school
Just7Steps.com/workshop
RobertSchrammConsulting.com

What is a token economy or system and why are they recommended by just about everyone who helps your child? Are they effective and if so, how? And why isn’t it working for you? In this three-part series, we’re covering all things token economies. By definition, a token economy is anything that is set up to allow you to offer a symbol as a promise of future reinforcement. It’s a great way to delay giving tangible reinforcers or splitting up larger reinforcers to make them more useful in the home or school settings.

In part one of this series, we introduce the concept of token economies, discuss the reasons why you might need one, and the major mistakes people make when trying to create them. We’ll start by talking about motivation and why it’s such a key component in reinforcing the desired behavior. Because we can’t always give immediate reinforcers to kids to build behavior, using tokens can help set up a contingency and motivate the child to engage in the desired activity or task. I also provide real-world examples of how to use a token economy so you can think about ways to implement them in your own life.

What’s Inside:

• What a token economy is and how it works.
• The importance of motivators when building behaviors.
• Examples of when you should put a token system in place.
• Common mistakes made when creating a token system.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Just7Steps.com/course
RobertSchrammConsulting.com

I’m continuing my discussion with Emily Wilson on the importance of assent in education. We last left off talking about my plans to rebrand Step Seven as a troubleshooting step. In other words, show your child that not following your most important instructions will not usually result in the same levels of reinforcement. All non-participation will be analyzed and problem solved, but it will also be respected. When we look at Step Seven as a troubleshooting step, it helps you consider all of your options of ways to respond when the first six steps haven’t resulted in the assent you were hoping for.

Emily provides a ton of great resources and influential people to follow to learn more about maintaining healthy boundaries and assent. More and more people are starting to bring this topic mainstream, which is great to see. We also discuss the state of the field of ABA and how to handle criticism and make improvements. Emily believes that one of the most beneficial things we can do for behavior analysts right now is to create analysts who can dissect composite skill sets in such a way that shaping is comfortable for the learner. We chat about how this perspective can be implemented, especially for kids outside of the autism spectrum and any diagnosis.

What’s Inside:

• More on using Step 7 as a troubleshooting step.
• Emily’s recommended names to follow to learn more about boundaries and assent. 
• Why behavioral principles are for every parent and child, independent of diagnosis.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Just7Steps.com

Today on the Just 7 Steps Podcast, I get the distinct honor and pleasure to talk to a very fine and increasingly well-known behavior analyst, and deservedly so. I’ve been fortunate enough to have presented several times with Emily in recent years and one of the main topics of our discussions has been the importance of assent in education. The term “assent” refers to the physical demonstration of consent, meaning that if someone doesn’t offer verbal or written consent, perhaps maybe they’re not capable. We should strive for assent in our education programs and also look at the withdrawal of assent as communication instead of just refusal behavior.

Emily Wilson has been a BCBA since 2016 and has worked with autistic individuals and other using the principles of ABA. Today, she’s the current chair and founder of the Tidewater Behavioral Analysts Collaborative. She’s also worked with Dr. Megan Miller, who was recently on the show as well. In this episode, Emily shares her personal experience with assent, as well as things she’s received in her own training that didn’t sit right with her. She also explains the difference between assent and consent and some of the contrasts between the current field of ABA and the past.

Join us next week for Part 2 with Emily Wilson.

What’s Inside:

• Why assent is important in education.
• The difference between consent and assent.
• How Step 7 can be looked at as a troubleshooting step.

Mentioned In This Episode:
Just 7 Steps YouTube
Just7Steps.com
The 7 Steps with Dr. Megan Miller