The Leader Learner Podcast

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Overarching Question: Which is more important, content or connection? 

Big ideas:

• Peter Block -- "Connection is the Content"
• content and connection as an infinity loop
• different types of connection -- to ideas, to others, and oneself
• relationship and communication interact with another
• trust cannot be built without connection
• delivering content with trust doesn't lead to integration
• we relate to content differently when there is time for connection
• you can't just throw content at people and expect them to learn
• it's hard to measure effectiveness in adult learning
• video courses have low completion rates because they miss the social aspect
• diverse groups provide perspective shifts that we can't get alone
• content can come easily from AI these days
• "Leave people changed, not just informed." -- Informed is the content piece, changed is the connection piece
• Perspectival knowing -- creating knowing that shifts your perspective
• knowledge needs context to be meaningful
• reading has become the exception to doomscrolling
• reading keeps people engaged in a topic over a long period of time
• when you connect with the content you're more engaged and motivated
• content in itself is useless without the connection piece
• shelf development -- when the knowledge/change stays on the shelf
• without trust you can't connect, without connection you can't trust - a feedback loop
• If a leader embodies the "connection is the content" idea, what does that mean for them?
• connection embedded into all the content
• a process doesn't necessarily create the connection
• breakout rooms are a structure that facilitate connection 
• put people into breakout rooms as they arrive to simulate the slow entering into a live space
• content without connection is information
• content is embedded in the conversation -- people are a source of content too

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THEME : Is listening overrated?

CONVERSATION POINTS:

• people think they are better communicators/listeners than they are
• listening is a very under-rated skill, and one to keep practicing
• knowledge is not opinion
• context shifts how we listen to people
• everyone deserves the right to be heard, but we don't have to take on board what they have to say
• listening without questioning what is true and what is not - practice discernment
• we listen through our own lens and biases
• What's the balance between listening to someone's opinion and sharing your own?
• when we give advice too soon, we may not be solving the right problem
• Are there contexts when we shouldn't listen?
• laws do not protect all people and do not represent all voices
• power dynamics affect people's listening
• who "has to" do the listening?
• when ego gets in the way of listening?
• higher ups need to spend more time listening to the people who actually know -- the experts
• when big companies enter into environments against the wishes and values of the citizens
• we are all capable of listening, but we don't practice and don't use the skill wisely
• the dyanmic of you're not listening to me, so I won't listen to you
• our ability to influence to change depends on our listening
• listen to ask better questions -- instead of thinking "that doesn't make any sense," ask a question to make sense
• train our listening every day 
• deep listening to things we don't value is very challenging
• the righteousness that goes along with not listening
• People not voting based on policy, but on who listens best
• The skill of listening is crucial
• Listening as a skill that goes out the window when we are emotionally triggered

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TOPIC: Do you think we should punish defiance in organizations?

BIG IDEAS:

• defiance appreciated in different cultures - in France it shows you're thinking critically
• power dynamics that are at play when talking about defiance
• defy and comply isn't a binary
• most of us were raised to believe that compliance was good and defiance was bad
• defiance can be good when it aligns with our values
• consent is when you have the capacity, knowledge
• we comply without having the knowledge
• false defiance - you go along with something that isn't aligned with your values
• conscious compliance -- where we're consciously going with something that's against your values because the risk is too high to comply
• there is often a long build up to defiance
• recognize the moments when I'm consciously complying
• not wanting to be the "complainer" when being harassed - risks too great for career
• people from marginalized groups have a great risk when defying
• looking to any ally from a more powerful social group to defy for you
• saying "no" to people's behavior and setting boundaries
• he-peating -- when a man repeats a woman's ideas, and others praise him over her
• How should companies deal with defiance? 
• getting curious about the defiance -  look at practices and processes that are outdated
• look at gaps between personal values and organizational values - how do we reconcile gaps in values
• Are values stated, but not practiced? 
• people can value the same thing, but how they demonstrate those values can differ
• look at the behaviors over the stated values of an organization
• emotional, psychological, physical, financial risks when it comes to defiance and compliance
• if there is a values misalignment between you and the organization, you choose a principled exit
• Is doing values exercises a pointless and dangerous exercise because you will never have alignment?
• the word defy has a moral connotation in French
• when people take your defiance to a process as a personal attack
• How do you defy but still stay loyal to the organization?
• it's hard to argue with someone's values
• standing on your moral high ground makes the other person wrong 
• using your values as a launch pad for your defiance
• build around a common need
• finding the nuanced way to defy - it doesn't have to be big and bold
• when you're at work, you're in a dependent relationship, so there are inherent risks
• the difference between protesting and striking 

RESOURCES:

• Defy by Dr. Sunita Sah
• Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg

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QUESTION: Are Gen Z Me, Me, Me?

BIG IDEAS:

• Lots of complaints from a team leader around respect for him and org. His belief that his younger team members are overconfident and think they are superior
• Do leaders need to prioritize the organization over themselves
• Leaders looking for themselves in future leaders (projection)
• Generalizations around generations 
• We tend to overestimate when people were born, but what they went through and where are they now in their lives that make a difference
• What 25-year-old prioritizes the organization over themselves?
• Gen Z were hit really hard by Covid, and it defines how we see the world
• Perception that Gen Z lacks patience and don't want to put in the work
• Dunning Krueger Effect or status quos on timelines?
• Learning can happen much faster, but they lack experience
• When we judge others for judging, we are judging too
• Is it a lack of patience?
• Envy and resentment growing -- wish to have the attitude that Gen Z has
• Tension between the "new way" and the "old way"
• COVID shifted priorities for people, yet companies want to go back to the way things were (working in the office being a top priority)
• What does it mean to "go back to normal"?
• "That's the way we've always done it," can get in the way of growth
• Adapt rather than fight it
• Equity of treatment across generations and work preferences
• It's not about working 50% versus, it's about working 50% or leaving the company
• We only need to love 20% of our work to find meaning in all of our work
• Only 14% of people are engaged -- how is that measured? 
• Are we asking too much of people for their work?
• How much is the perception of engagement valid across generations?
• How much show off and show me rose due to the self facing camera?
• Over praising leading to overconfidence
• Instead of keeping them down, give them the opportunity to safely fail
• Seeing the gray area between people's truths

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• Podcast || Social Science Bites - Episode on Generational Myths
• Book || Love + Work by Marcus Buckingham
• Book || Think Again by Adam Grant

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TOPIC : If leadership training is dead, how do companies still develope leaders?

Big Ideas:

• Learning experiences can happen without training
• Learning that happens in community can have a bigger impact
• Learning happens in a spiral -- you have to come back to it again and in different ways. 
• Learning happens across multiple axis across time, not linearly
• Leadership learning can happen below the surface before people can see it
• Creating a non-threatening environment -- psychological safety
• Put something in the community basket
• There is no lever for learning - you can just pull and it emerges
• Leadership as an emergent property, rather than something that can be directly developed
• How does the hierarchical structure of training impeding leadership training?
• Focus on the process of learning, rather than the delivering of content and information. 
• Practice versus training? 
• "Knowledge isn't wisdom. Wisdom in knowledge in action."
• Give people a space to activate the information. Everyone sparks at different times. 
• Creating self-fulfilling frameworks that can be peer generated after wards
• Some models can be reciprocated, but the experience may not be the same
• Small moments of connected learning keeps the learning alive - the more exposure to the ideas, the more your Reticular Activation System is activated
• How do we assess whether a learning experience is effective?
• If leadership training is so great, why do we still have the same number of problems we have?
• Does success always mean rising in an organization? 
• If everyone can be a leader, how do I choose the next leader?
• Managing and leading aren't the same skill set. 
• Promoting people who aren't good at their jobs, but are still potential leaders.
• Sometimes we are short-sighted about leadership development
• Garden metaphor -- plant some seeds, nurture, see what grows, adapt based on what you see

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TOPIC : Is leadership training dead?

BIG IDEAS:

• creating a learning experience without training/teaching people
• training gives people a chance to not take responsibility - they are following the training
• people are happy after a training, but change long term is limited
• attempt to get manager and HR involved in training, but it didn't work
• clients/customers want training, but don't take the time to reflect on what they need
• time is a barrier to implementation of oversight of training
• Peter Principle -- people rise to the level of their competence
• great individual contributors don't always make great leaders
• leadership is nuanced and doesn't follow a checklist
• training doesn't personalize the learning to where/who they are
• provide the spark, get people more emotionally involved in the change
• connecting the theory, to the emotions, to create the behavior change
• leadership is the state of being a leader, not a skill
• bringing the manager in was an attempt to reinforce the training
• making leadership experiences voluntary versus obligatory
• internally motivated learning is more impactful 
• letting go of agendas and objectives -- some structure, but give space for what arises from the participants
• leadership can't be taught, but it can be developed
• humans and leadership are too complex to be taught
• leadership has an emotional component
• getting stuck in what you're supposed to do, rather than reading the "room" and adapting to the situation in front of you
• letting go of the idea of needing "tools" as a leader
• internal motivation of being a leader

BOOKS MENTIONED:

• The Power of Moment, Chip and Dan Heath

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💡 SPOTLIGHTED BOOK : Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office 

📚 GUEST READER : Valentina Tacchino

💬 CONVERSATION HIGHLIGHTS:

• the book is very portable -- you can dip in and out
• how girls/women are educated to be "nice" and certain behavior were educated with not making the most for them in an office environment
• when being too "nice" can prevent us from standing up for ourselves or voicing our opinions
• student behaviors don't work in an office environment
• the cultural conventions and unwritten rules in within a work environment
• not wanting to confirm and "erase" yourself
• the book not asking women to be like men, but does invite you to reflect on your behaviors in relation to what men do or don't do
• make any book you read yours - don't follow it to the letter
• retaining your own personality and consciousness into reading and applying the book
• ask yourself what type of manager and leader you want to be
• unwritten rules come with any organization or community - hours in the office, dress codes, etc.
• many companies spell out the culture now, but at the time it wasn't like that
• wearing clothes that match your personality along with the unwritten rules of the industry
• sometimes you need to compromise on some things to make it easier for everyone
• mentoring people without telling people what to do
• having to change how I spoke to fit into the culture -- how you sound, how you project, when to participate, managing up, etc.
• not saying yes just because someone is your boss
• standing in your strength and in your values
• life and death moments in your career 
• taking time and energy to find the way 
• when saying "no" can nourish a relationship, rather than end it
• no is a powerful word in many contexts
• getting curious about someone's "no" 
• personal gratification is what will keep us going
• shaking the tree, but not uprooting the tree

ℹ GUEST BIO AND LINKS: 

Valentina Tacchino leads a team focused on wealth management for international clients at LGT Wealth Management. She looks after UK resident, not living in the UK and clients moving to the UK.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/valentina-tacchino-488b2a26/

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💡 SPOTLIGHTED BOOK : Unbound by Kasia Urbaniak
📚 GUEST READER : Lucy Chambers

💬 CONVERSATION HIGHLIGHTS:

• when managing 2 opposing views together ( a Taoist Nun and a Dominatrix)
• power is connected to our attention and where we direct it
• Dominant Position - attention out
• Submissive Position - attention in
• Link to coaching and coaches not setting the agenda
• power is about influence and nothing else
• both types of attention have value
• "The SMUSH" - when we flip flop between the two states of attention, or we have a foot in each state
• Incongruence occurs when our words don't match our energy - when we soften our words based on society's expectations on us
• People can smell intention - our animal body speaks more than we know/believe
• Manipulation - women get seen as this more often than men. Women fall into this SMUSH more often than men.
• Learning to ask from a place of grounded legitimacy. 
• Socialized that asking correlates with weakness
• We can't have an impact and play big if we aren't willing to ask for what we want/need
• "I am not having a conversation with _____________ about ___________."
• Asking exposes our edges.
• Connecting our requests to our universal human needs.
• Asking creates an opportunity for others and gives them a new role in their life
• Be as specific as you can when making requests. 
• The half ask is the SMUSH. 
• Wanting people to read our minds doesn't work. 
• We have a poor vocabulary for how we feel.
• Ideas need to be nourished.
• Allowing our asks to delight other people as they fulfill them. 
• When our asks create a WIN-WIN. 
• Asking takes vulnerability
• The toxic side of the independent woman - we don't have to do it all alone, and we are biologically leaned to connect with others.
• We don't create power siting alone in a room, but through connecting with others.
• Spend time taking things in and putting things out in the world.

📚 OTHER BOOKS/RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• Imogen Roy 
• Playing Big by Tara Mohr
• The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer
• Video Series : The Basics of Non-Violent Communication with Marshall Rosenberg 
• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
• How to Start a Mistress Group Workbook

ℹ GUEST BIO AND LINKS: 

Lucy Chambers is an anti-overwhelm coach and facilitator working on breaking old, broken patterns to create space for new great things. You can find and follow her at: https://facilitationmindset.substack.com/

https://www.facilitationmindset.com/

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💡 SPOTLIGHTED BOOK : First Things First by Stephen  R. Covey 📚 GUEST READER : Maha Bali

💬 CONVERATION HIGHLIGHTS:

• it's a life management book and how to prioritize
• imagining the end of your life and what people will say about you
• Live, Love, Learn and Leave a Legacy
• visualization where you attend your own funeral
• when what is written on paper and what you do in real time does not match
• Do our personal goals interfere with our institution's goals?
• Switch careers in order to focus on learning and leaving a legacy
• You don't need to be balanced in all areas at all times - you might focus more on love in some phases of your life and then lean into learning and legacy in other phases
• when strong emotional labor in our work affects the rest of our life
• when we pursue a legacy that isn't ours
• education systems all have their issues
• when our pain points direct our passions and desire to "fix" things later in life
• restart works for more than computers and electronics
• leaning into what brings you joy 
• opportunity gaps can cause us to choose a certain path, even if it doesn't fit for us
• when your value as a person is not remunerated financially within society
• reading books by only one demographic can be limiting
• reading things from different cultures takes additional reflection
• interacting with people from different cultures helps us understand other identities
• when you read a book by someone who lived it versus reading a book by someone who has observed the same experience
• when our looks and names get in the way of full assimilation in a country
• empathy to others oppression as an outside observer
• not forcing people into our language dynamics
• sharing learning with others and giving it freely
• share questions, not just the answers
• worry about giving the wrong knowledge

📚 OTHER BOOKS/RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey
• Mindvalley - Speak and Inspire Course
• Lisa Nichols
• Belong - Radha Agrawal
• Emergent Strategy - adrienne marree brown
• Imagination : A Manifesto - Ruha Benjamin
• The Art of Gathering - Priya Parker
• The Message by Ta-Nehisi Coates

ℹ GUEST BIO AND LINKS: 

Maha Bali is Professor of Practice at the Center for Learning and Teaching at the American University in Cairo. She has a PhD in Education from the University of Sheffield, UK. She is co-founder of virtuallyconnecting.org (a grassroots movement that challenges academic gatekeeping at conferences) and co-facilitator of Equity Unbound (an equity-focused, open, connected intercultural learning curriculum, which has also branched into academic community activities Continuity with Care,Socially Just Academia, a collaboration with OneHE: Community-building Resources and MYFest, an innovative 3-month professional learning journey. She writes and speaks frequently about social justice, critical pedagogy, and open and online education. She blogs regularly at https://blog.mahabali.me and tweets @bali_maha.

For Maha’s list of peer-reviewed publications, see here.

For Maha’s list of keynotes and invited talks, see here.

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💡 SPOTLIGHTED BOOK : Wild Mind by Bill Plotkin

📚 GUEST READER : Andrei Stoicescu

💬 CONVERATION HIGHLIGHTS:

• growing from a place of unknowing
• not knowing where/when you will learn - it can happen at any time
• we often forget that we are a part of nature
• eco-psychology lens
• we live in an ecosystem and don't recognize our interdependence
• eco-centric -- start from the place of recognizing the nature and niche around us
• you can work with metaphor without understanding it
• you can live beyond knowledge and understanding
• you don't know what "cold" is before you experience it
• we communicate through our energy, not just our words
• Four facets of the self - Interpersonal View of the Self
  • Feeling Things
  • Using your Senses
  • Using our Intellect
  • Using our Imagination
• What happens if these facets are mature/immature? 
• Many of us are stuck in perpetual adolescence
• We often develop our facets based on what the world needs of us at the time
• Knowing your mature facet, and look toward the other facets to help you grow
• Miscommunication can occur when our strong facets collide with other facets
• What happens on your team when it's dominated by certain archetypes/facets? 
• Dysfunction on teams occurs when we don't understand ourselves more deeply, and those of our colleagues
• Meet yourself from the different facets and treat yourself with compassion
• Shifting our strategies that worked in childhood that don't work as adults
• Improve your leadership not through tactical ways, but through self-exploration
• Beginner's mind and humility in leadership
• Look for the patterns in your life
• Seeing the gift in the other facets of of self
• All of us have a "wounded self" - can we have compassion for our self and that of others
• Turn a sacred wound into a sacred scar
• Break the promises you made to yourself when you were young
• When we choose not to do the work, we pay in non-financial ways, so why not pay someone to help you do the work.

📚 OTHER BOOKS MENTIONED:

• Soul Craft, also by Bill Plotkin

ℹ GUEST BIO AND LINKS: 

Born in an industrial town of a soon to come out of communism Romania, I fell in love with books and stories in primary school. I have loved music and singing for as long as I can remember and I dabbled with acting until I went to university. I left Architecture after 4 years of studies (out of 6) and quit working in Architecture and Design (after 5 years), started doing odd jobs until, at 25, I ended up in a (then) more than 100.000 employee corporation where I received an Employee of the Year award (in my service center) after my first year for opening a new business line. I joined a (then) small ESG Research provider as an Engineer and worked my way up to Director of Engineering in 4 years. Even before the pandemic came I felt that I need a shift in how I approach things in life so I quit climbing the corporate ladder and started studying Philosophy and Psychology. I hold the same position with my employer and do my best to be there with my team, colleagues and friends. I continued to make music throughout my life and am now working to create my own music-oriented company that will hopefully launch next year.

LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-stoicescu/

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