The Leader Learner Podcast

The Leader Learner Podcast

By Theresa Destrebecq and Vincent MusolinoBusinessEducationSelf-Improvement
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The Leader Learner Podcast episodes

  • S03E14 Is Theresa a Sexist Episode?

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    Check-In: What's giving you hope right now? 

    Big Ideas:

    • What constitutes inequity?
    • When your unbelonging can connect you with other people who feel unbelonging
    • Gender equity issues not coming up in some leadership trainings 
    • Cultural and country differences in gender equity
    • Calling out misogynistic jokes - Should I? Context dependent?
    • "isms" as part of the air we breathe - it's conditioned into us
    • Creating the system and benefitting from it - are they separate
    • Unconscious bias that comes out in small ways as a parent
    • Is awareness enough to change behavior? 
    • If we are all sexist, does that make the word meaningless?
    • Sexists are actively causing harm...???
    • Sexism is mostly unintentional - men don't even know it's sexist
    • What do we call people who are functioning in patriarchy in unconscious ways, but still causing harm?
    • The myth of meritocracy 
    • Meritocracy - achievement is based solely on your skills
    • Blind assessments to even things out
    • Performance review differences between men and women
    • Transparent data and decisions on manager, causing inequities to even out
    • Be internally transparent with income differences
    • Women tend not to negotiate their salaries, but they will negotiate on the behalf of others
    • Women less likely to nominate themselves for promotions
    • Asking women to be like men doesn't work
    • Double bind - not assertive enough, not seen as a leader, too assertive, seen as being bitchy
    • Anger as a man is okay, being sad/emotional as a man is associated with weakness
    • Expectations in our gender roles
    • When there's no problem, there's no data usually
    • Believing you are objective, makes you more likely to be sexist. 
    • Thinking of the behavior separate from the identity

    Resources:

    • Invisible Women by Caroline Criando Perez 

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    40 min
  • S03E13 The Story I'm Telling Myself Episode

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    Check-In:

    • Which projects give you energy?

    Big Ideas:

    • 3 skills that lead to successful groups: building safety, sharing vulnerability, establishing purpose
    • cohesive groups - telling stories and reminding one another what they stand for
    • murmuration - how birds move together
    • using small signals to link the present moment to the future ideal
    • organizations that don't have a purpose, mission, vision, etc. 
    • the challenge of extracting a purpose
    • how to detect weak signals and act on them
    • going through the motions of purpose - some people feel it's not worthwhile
    • "What's the purpose of having a purpose?" 
    • Purpose is a higher order construct - something you can build everything else around
    • If there are no words, there's no knowledge
    • Purpose seems too impractical - not actionable, practical enough
    • Cultural differences in focusing on culture
    • A tool without a purpose is just an object.
    • Leadership without purpose doesn't serve anyone
    • You can pivot around a purpose, and shift your business structure
    • Don't sell change
    • When companies focus their purpose around a story or stories, it can motivate employees in a new way
    • Having a clear beacon of purpose
    • What can organizations do to re-engage employees? Is story enough?
    • Belief that narratives only apply to children and politicians 
    • Stories are a way to make groups work together - story-telling goes back thousands of years
    • Any good story has conflict and strong emotion -- some organizations still try to separate emotions from work
    • How to help people identify the stories that they are telling themselves? 
    • Once you identify the story, you can change the story
    • How stories drive our emotional world.
    • Our brains want to close the loop, so we make up the rest of the story so we can move on - a necessary evolutionary device
    • Being in the matrix and not knowing you are in the matrix
    • Leading for Proficiency (being the lighthouse) - establishing priorities and connected behaviors
    • Leading for Creativity (being the ship's engineer, not the captain) - safe flat, high-candor environment, not about how to
    • What's your leadership purpose?
    • Transactional versus transformational leadership
    • The leader's job isn't to motivate others, but to create conditions for people to be motivated


    Resources:

    • The Culture Code, by Daniel Coyle
    • Start with Why Simon Sinek
    • Find Your Why, Simon Sinek
    • Adam Grant

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    43 min
  • S03E12 The Intentional Flexibility Episode (with Lisa Davidian)

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    Check-In: 

    • Do think the best time of your life is in the past, present, or future

    Big Ideas:

    • flexibility in work schedules - what do we need to do so
    • the equipment that supports remote working
    • shifting mindsets around traditional ways of working
    • shifting schedules to accommodate global clients
    • sense of freedom in being able to shift your schedule
    • flexing people's pay to allow for flexible schedules
    • Be present, be equipped, be allowed
    • Compressed work week - had to create the model
    • Keeping people engaged after 30+ years in the corporate world
    • Empowering people to have balance and to grow in new ways
    • Employees feel energized and motivated when they have a larger fulfilled
    • Need for new working models to offer employees 
    • Younger generation doesn't want the traditional 9-5, 5 days a week
    • Covid has shifted us into new ways of thinking about how we work and where we work
    • Can flexibility work for manufacturing, and other hands-on type of work?
    • Hesitation to allow flexible schedules
    • Creation can happen NOT sitting in front of the computer
    • Companies are losing good people if they don't offer flexibility
    • Using co-working spaces for networking and shifting perspectives and interacting across-organizations
    • How do I lead remotely?  
    • How can we support leaders to build trusting teams remotely? 
    • How to facilitate meetings remotely so that people can feel that connection?
    • The small moments of trust building,, in person, can't be as easily transferred to online spaces.
    • Making connection the primary intention of all gatherings
    • Intention, Execution, Results - Observe what is happening in your meetings
    • Focus on how people want to feel at the end of a session - the doing happens as a result of the feeling (fulfilled, energized, inspired, motivated, engaged, supported, etc...)
    • Making sure that everyone has a voice in whatever way that voice wants to be heard
    • Not micro-managing people's time and checking their online status when working remotely
    • When people speak in the first 5 minutes of the call, they end up speaking more throughout the meeting
    • The relationship between trust and empowerment
    • What's preventing leaders from trusting their employees?
    • We want engaged employees, but we don't create engagement in the meetings
    • Meeting etiquette and expectations -- different practices across organizations, regions, countries
    • Less moments to sync outside of meetings when we are remote - more presence needed in online meetings
    • What kind of leader does your company need you to be?
    • In our fast-paced world, are we giving space for people to BE
    • Messaging around productivity and efficiency and how it impacts people 
    • Separating your ego from your leadership
    • Self-reflection as the key to good leadership


    Resources Mentioned:

    • The Extended Mind, by Annie Murphy Paul

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    56 min
  • S03E11 The Chess and Checkers Episode

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    Check-In: 

    • If you could live anywhere, where would you live and why?

    Big Ideas: 

    • when books make leadership seem easy, when it's not
    • 5 elements that every team needs to function well together, written as a pyramid
    • using books as a guide can lead us down the wrong path
    • The 5 Dysfunctions are: Absence of Trust, Fear of Conflict, Lack of Commitment, Avoidance of Accountability, and Inattention to Results
    • Lencioni is anti-consensus
    • Can people have results without trust? (example - the Chicago Bulls of the 1990's)
    • Trusting someone's character and capabilities
    • Peer review of models
    • Books can be seeds of discussion, but not guides for team performance
    • Components of trust, and signs when trust is absent
    • Trust not being valued by a manager - it being seen as too "fluffy"
    • Does the importance of trust depend on the type of team you are within the organization? 
    • If everyone's competing for the CEO's job, how can you trust those you work with?
    • Power in organizations - the individual versus the group
    • How can one be political without being egotistical?
    • Politics is making your power concrete. It's not bad or good in nature. It's a tool.
    • What am I applying my politics for?
    • Playing the game without playing the game. Being aware of the game and playing it for the good of the company.
    • We teach people NOT to play politics at work, and then they get into organizations where people are all playing different games
    • When people suffer when they don't know the rules of the game they are playing
    • Play the game to be a successful contribution to the organization
    • Belief that good people don't politics - it's not the tool, it's what you do with them that matters
    • Can you win the fight being a good, upstanding person?
    • Power is largely due to the collective sum of all the relationships you have within an organization. 
    • Fear driven relationships aren't relationships - they are transactional 
    • Choosing NOT to play the game, can be seen as more ethical

    Resources:

    • The 5 Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
    • Amy Edmondson and Psychological Safety
    • Edgar Shein and Psychological Safety
    • Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs


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    49 min
  • S03E10 The Trombone Leadership Episode

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    Check-In:

    • How did you spend your summer breaks as a child?

    Big Ideas:

    • How do you know when connection exists in a group?
    • The importance of having care/connection when giving feedback
    • Connection is not the same as relationship
    • Feel a connection to someone without a relationship
    • A relationship can exist without fully knowing someone
    • Trusting character versus trusting someone's competencies
    • Trust: Competence, Kindness, Reliability
    • BRAVING Model of Trust (Brené Brown): Boundaries, Reliability, Accountability, Vault, Integrity, Non-Judgment, Generosity
    • Intent doesn't always match impact - can care about someone and still hurt them
    • Creating more intention when giving feedback
    • Being unkind versus the perception of being unkind
    • Does kindness have a place in business?
    • We choose complacency and kindness can cross over -  we don't give feedback when it's needed because we know it will hurt
    • When is too much too much
    • Connecting just enough to do my job well
    • How much is too much connecting as a leader?
    • Do people want their leaders to know about them? 
    • Connecting with people to be strategic/manipulative rather than human
    • Do we need to know the in and outs of our teams to be a good leader?
    • Shifting connecting depending on the individual needs of your team
    • Do we need to manage the perceptions of others on our team?
    • You don't have to ask, but you have to listen
    • People on our teams have different attachment styles
    • Is it too much to have to adapt/chameleon to our teams needs?
    • Ask people what they expect from you and set boundaries 
    • Accompanying our team members
    • Accompanying and giving the infrastructure to others
    • Having clear expectations and the same map means we don't need to be as connected
    • Connection is needed to set expectations and create the map together
    • Is connection turning into the solution to all of our leadership problems?
    • None of us has a map of where our business goes, so connection support us
    • Common understandings of what you need to be doing and then you can improvise
    • Pull back from connection as being "the answer" to your leadership issues
    • Knowing information can share that you care
    • The little things are important to others
    • Why are you connecting?
    • What's the "right" amount of connection with our teams?


    Resources:

    • The Speed of Trust, Stephen Covey
    • BRAVING Inventory, Brené Brown
    • How to Know A Person, by David Brooks

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    52 min
  • S03E09 The Kronos and Kairos Episode

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    Check-In:

    • In your opinion, when is innovation overused?

    Big Ideas:

    • Binary questions - Are they useful or not? 
    • Are creating and innovating the same?
    • Moving from being salaried to hourly and the implications/impact it had
    • Feeling of liberation being hourly rather than salaried
    • Sense of equity - treating all of us the same
    • Mental load and how it's often not counted in salaries
    • Sense of autonomy in deciding to work or not
    • Working to deserve the salary
    • Space for thinking/reflecting separate from doing
    • What's your relationship to decision-making? 
    • Working less as one of the goals
    • Stepping back to reflect on the decision and knowing the criteria of success
    • Failpoint brainstorming
    • Sunk Cost Bias
    • Is salary associated with time spent in a corporate setting? 
    • Are we creating space for psychological detachment from work?
    • Companies taking time of employment engagement
    • Is a salary enough of a reward for engagement? 
    • Can we pay someone based on meeting metrics?
    • Quality versus quantity of work
    • Can companies do what entrepreneurs do in terms of paying employees?
    • Parkinson's Law -- the task will expand to fit the time given
    • Playing with time to get you motivated 
    • Honoring where people are in their lives, and adjusting their expected time at work to their stage in life
    • Kronos time (the passing of time)  versus Kairos time (the quality of time)
    • Universal income - untying productivity with your value in society
    • Could we live in a world where people do what they love with love
    • Depression and it's connection to purpose and meaning
    • The attention economy and how it draws people in
    • Moral decision about what we produce and whether it's worthy
    • Inequity in salaries
    • Time I spent at work doesn't matter  - what, how, and why matters more 
    • Quality of time versus quantity of time

    Resources:

    • Taking Smart Risks - Doug Sundheim

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    50 min
  • S03E08 The Value the Voice Episode

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    Check-In Question:

    • Would you tell people if you won the lottery, would you tell people or keep it a secret? 


    Big Ideas:

    • Exercise:
      • Draw a meeting on a paper.
        • Color code.  RED- people talking too much. GREEN - people talking too little. ORANGE - people speaking in a toxic way
        • What do you notice? 
    • Share of voice
    • When is interrupting others okay? 
    • Cultural differences between share of voice, and adapting to how others communicate
    • How can we encourage green people to talk more, besides simply "Speak up"?
      • Wait time.
      • Eye contact
      • Moderate conversation more
    • Does everyone's voice need to be heard?
    • Are we using breakout rooms to create engagement
    • 1-2-4-ALL Giving people the opportunities to write first, then share with a pair, then the whole group
    • Turn to your neighbor
    • Brainstorming are often more geared for extroverted people. Extend the brainstorm
    • When we don't hear from others, we don't hear opposition
    • Power has nothing to do with performance at times.
    • Certain situations when collective intelligence is not appropriate
    • Hearing from the experts, credible, valuable contributors? 
    • Wisdom of the LOUD, doesn't necessarily incorporate the most credible people
    • Context matters
    • Collective intelligence - more people sharing, focus on social sensitivity
    • More social sensitivity when there are women in the room
    • Swap out the moderators of a meeting, to shift the share of voice
    • Connection between empowering people and burnout - some people aren't ready to be empowered
    • Entrepreneurship training versus leadership training
    • Front load the sharing to equate share of voice
    • Bring awareness to people
    • ONE BREATH SHARE - keeps sharing limited
    • What's the purpose of the meeting?
    • Who's really making the decision?


    Resources:

    • Leadership is Language by L. David Marquet
    • 1-2-4-ALL, Liberating Structures
    • Nominal Group Technique
    • Humanocracy by Gary Hamel and Michele Zanini


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    39 min
  • S03E07 The Feel Gratitude Don't Talk Gratitude Episode

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    Check-In: What cause would you be willing to give up your life for?

    Big Ideas:

    • gratitude can help us out of dark places
    • attitude of gratitude is not the same as a practice of gratitude
    • gratitude practice as a daily ritual
    • gratitude as a feeling, not necessarily saying "Thank you."
    • feeling proud rather than just lucky
    • Who are you grateful for who supported something you are proud of?
    • Characteristics that supported the achievement - who helped to develop those characteristics in you? 
    • Strangers who helped you - being grateful for the unseen people
    • The emotion of gratitude - not just talking about it, but feeling into it with eyes closed
    • Recognition is not the same as gratitude
    • Waiting for recognition leads us unto a dangerous path
    • Gratitude comes from within, recognition is external
    • Gratitude is the feeling, recognition is the action
    • What's the prerequisite to gratitude?
    • Doing gratitude isn't the same as feeling gratitude
    • Creating the pause and intention to feel gratitude
    • Habit stacking - way of creating new habits on top of old habits
    • Speaking gratitude out loud can be powerful


    Resources:

    • Atomic Habits by James Clear

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    30 min
  • S03E06 The Mental Health Responsibility Episode

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    Check-In:

    • If you could change anything about yourself, what would you change?

    Big Ideas:

    • Should organizations provide resources for employee mental health?
    • Mental health is still a taboo topic for many, especially in organizations
    • Not educated about topics of mental health
    • Shame associated with an EAP program
    • Culture of "suck it up," "be strong," and "pull up your bootstraps."
    • Perception of being weak - the stigma of mental health issues
    • Is there a right way to support people around mental health?
    • Community-based program to support employee mental health - feeling not alone by sharing with others
    • Trust advisors in Switzerland - listen and provide options, not therapy or coaching
    • Complexity of situations
    • Neurodivergent employees and mental health - are they in the same box?
    • Leaving your personal life at the door doesn't work
    • Compartmentalizing our lives doesn't work
    • We are meant to be in community with others - we are not autonomous beings
    • Is community more important than the product?
    • Sitting with our emotions, rather than trying to push past them
    • Personal responsibility - where am I participating?
    • Yoga, nap rooms, etc support the symptoms, but not the cause
    • Provide the relationship space for people
    • Continuity of support - more than just a couple of days off
    • People who can step off the work highway, and others who cannot
    • Pressure on employees can't be fixed with nap pods
    • The CEO who was fired for providing more for his employees, but not focusing enough on profit
    • Not about finding fault
    • Mental health is not linear
    • YES/AND - both individual and organizational responsibility

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    39 min
  • S03E05 The Everyday Authentic Leadership Episode

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    Check-In:

    • Which superpower would you like to have? 

    Big Ideas:

    • Definitions of authentic leadership
    • Authentic leaders deeply understand their values, strength and purpose and use that to motivate and inspire others
    • The ability of people to tell their own stories and help people connect to that story
    • 4 Dimensions of Authentic Leadership: Self-Awareness, Relational Transparency, Balanced Process, and Internal Moral Perspective
    • Vulnerability is a strength not a weakness
    • How our unconscious mind interferes with authenticity
    • Don't bring our true self to work due to cultural expectations, fears, peer pressure, etc.
    • Authentic Leadership is self-referential
    • Authentic leaders are proactive in looking at their biases and how they process people
    • Leaders already think they are being authentic
    • Self-awareness isn't a destination, it's a journey
    • The 5 Rs - Review, Remember, Recognize, Reflect, Renew
    • You can never say that you completely know yourself
    • Don't crucify others or ourselves for our biases - we all have biases
    • Own up to others your biases - ask others to give you feedback about your biases
    • Authentic leaders lead as uniquely them
    • Everything comes down to the strength of our core 
    • People claiming to be self-aware, but acting as if they are not
    • How can one facilitate authentic conversations?
    • Create spaces that are empowering enough to be vulnerable
    • When you look into the mirror and ask questions, who responds? 
    • Connection between courage and authenticity
    • Kindness and complacency 
    • Should we always be authentic? 
    • Authentic leaders know what they do not know and are willing to admit it
    • Empathetic feedback
    • Looking for the elements of truth in hard feedback
    • How do we encourage people to take the time to reflect? 
    • Not look at what's right or wrong, but look at what happened and making meaning from it
    • Every day has moments of authentic leadership
    • Every day provides moments for self-reflection


    Amara's Bio:
    Amara is a certified executive and leadership development coach with great passion for leading authentically. I work with executives and leaders to embrace authenticity, strengthen positive behaviors, develop new leadership capabilities, grow influence, and deepen impact. My clients achieve positive lasting changes in leadership behaviors. 

    www.authentictransformations.net
    www.Amaraemuwa.net

    Please check out her new book, The Truth Behind Excuses

    https://authentictransformations.net/behind-excuses

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    45 min

About The Leader Learner Podcast

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The Leader Learner podcast is for readers and leaders of all kinds. Theresa and Vincent both work as external learning and development providers to global organizations, supporting them in…