Your host, Kit Morgan, is a trans and queer licensed clinical social worker, therapist, and educator, specializing in the work with the queer population who had families and faith backgrounds where love was allowed only as long as you were cisgender heterosexual.

Today's guest, Zach Gillis, is a Black, openly gay Christian clergyman who grew up in the Northwestern Indiana cities of Gary, Hammond, and Merrillville. Zach was a pastor’s kid in the Black Missionary Baptist Church, which sparked his love for church ministry. After coming out in his 20s, Zach came out of the closet and the Black Missionary Baptist Church to find his church home. Outside of re-imagining and reconstructing what the American church can be like in both affirming of Black American cultural identities and LGBTQ identities, Zach Gillis is widely involved in his local community of South Bend, Indiana with serving on the city’s LGBTQ Center’s Board of Directors from 2018 - 2022, delivering vocal performances, and caring for youth as the dean of students at a high school in South Bend, Indiana. When Zach isn’t serving his local community, you might find him singing, listening to R&B of the 90s and 00s, eating Chicago Mix Popcorn, and chilling with his Chihuahaus named Nemo and Topher.

The conversation between Kit and Zach explores the experiences of growing up in the Black church, the significance of the Black church in the US in the Civil Rights Movement and beyond, and the journey of finding a church home after coming out of the closet as a Black gay Christian. Kit and Zach delve into the impact of regional culture upon Christian practices and expressions of LGBTQ affirmation. The conversation covers the topics of contemporary Christian music (CCM), Black Gospel music, growing up as a pastor's kid in the Black Missionary Baptist Church, LGBTQ inclusion and exclusion in Evangelical churches, and the emergence of Black LGBTQ Christian communities who are liberation-oriented.

Welcome to the Liberated Porch podcast, where we explore the intersection of religion, spirituality, sexuality, gender, and identity. In this episode, host Kit Morgan, a trans and queer licensed clinical social worker, talks with Melissa Duge Spiers, an award-winning writer who recently released her new book (Holy Disobedience), former Seventh Day Adventist, human rights activist for religious trauma survivors, and member of the LGBTQ community. Together, they delve into the complexities of finding liberation after Purity Culture.

Timestamps:

0:00 - 1:53 Introduction to the podcast episode

1:53 - 2:23 Kit and Melissa discuss breaking free from religious abuse.

2:23 - 4:33 Melissa shares the story behind the title "Holy Disobedience."

4:33 - 5:14 Behind the making of the Glory Whole

5:14 - 7:13 Seventh-day Adventist Church's views on pleasure.

7:13 - 10:29 The influence of religious teachings on autonomy

10:29 - 12:25 The challenges of navigating sexual rules within religious contexts.

12:25 - 16:17 The struggle with guilt and shame from religious teachings.

16:17 - 18:41 The journey of self-discovery and breaking free from religious constraints.

18:41 - 24:59 The challenges of leaving high-control religious groups.

24:59 - 27:25 The emotional cycle within authoritarian religious teachings.

27:25 - 34:41 Navigating moral and ethical dilemmas in leaving religious groups.

34:41 - 40:22 Restructuring life after authoritarian religious involvement

40:22 - 43:22 Reclaiming Holiness after high control religion

Join host Kit Morgan as they explore the intersection of religion, violence, trauma, and societal issues rooted in Christian fundamentalism.

Key topics:

• The cultural and religious significance of Easter and its impact on survivors of religious trauma
• The hypocritical censorship in Christian fundamentalism, especially around depictions of violence and sexuality
• Early desensitization to violence in fundamentalist environments and its long-term effects on emotional health and relationships
• Patriarchal narratives and gendered interpretations of biblical stories, including the resurrection
• Religious trauma’s influence on tolerance for emotional and psychological abuse
• The role of Christian nationalism in shaping political and social policies, including violence and hate speech
• The implications of Supreme Court rulings on conversion therapy and the legal landscape for LGBTQ+ youth
• The dangerous normalization of torture and wilderness therapy camps in Colorado
• The significance of recognizing and resisting societal desensitization to violence and trauma

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to religious oppression of gender and sexuality
00:28 - Personal reflections on Easter weekend and religious trauma
01:11 - Hypocrisy in religious censorship and depictions of violence
02:11 - The use of filtering technologies like Clear Play in religious environments
03:03 - The graphic nature of biblical narratives and childhood impacts
04:17 - Personal anecdotes about Easter eggs and family traditions
05:00 - Marriage of patriarchal narratives and the Easter resurrection story
05:56 - The strength of women’s roles in biblical stories and gender bias in religious interpretation
06:19 - Reflection on societal impact and personal trauma during religious holidays
07:04 - Early desensitization to violence and its influence on emotional health
07:30 - The normalization of emotional and psychological abuse within religious contexts
08:32 - Intergenerational impacts of religious violence and trauma
09:19 - Tensions between Catholics and Protestants as reflections of broader trauma dynamics
10:00 - The impact of political and religious conflicts on current events, including military and international issues
10:40 - Christian nationalist ideologies, including theocratic and fascist tendencies
11:55 - The distortion of the phrase "one nation under God" and its political implications
12:30 - Christian nationalism’s influence on social and cultural divisions
13:10 - The rise in religious violence and conflicts within faith communities
13:37 - The influence of religious ideologies on legislation, including anti-LGBTQ+ policies
14:13 - The Supreme Court’s rulings on conversion therapy and the politicization of mental health
15:49 - Prevalence of conversion therapy practices and legal loopholes in the US
16:52 - The environmental dangers of wilderness therapy camps and torture tactics
18:42 - How Christian nationalism and organizations like Focus on the Family shape legal frameworks
19:04 - The psychological and societal effects of early trauma and desensitization to violence
19:49 - The importance of reconnecting with our humanity by recognizing trauma and violence

The conversation delves into the significance of Trans Day of Visibility and the euphoria and challenges associated with visibility. It explores the impact of conversion therapy, the influence of gender structures, purity culture, and religious teachings on gender. Additionally, Kit Morgan addresses the role of gender in therapy spaces, the anti-feminist separation of genders, the connection between purity culture and misogyny, and the impact of trans visibility on the patriarchy. The conversation concludes with a reflection on the gratitude for being a trans individual.

Takeaways

• Trans Day of Visibility (and Invisibility)
• Conversion Therapy for Gender Identity and Expression

Chapters

• 00:00 Trans Day of Visibility
• 06:21 Influence of Gender Structures
• 12:03 Gender Roles and Cognitive Restructuring
• 21:25 Gender in Therapy Spaces
• 30:06 Purity Culture and Misogyny
• 37:44 Conversion Therapy and Internal Transition

This episode dives into the complex world of recovery for survivors of conversion therapy, exploring personal stories, therapist pitfalls, and pathways toward healing through community, self-acceptance, and informed mental health support. Whether you're a survivor, ally, or mental health professional, this conversation offers crucial insights and practical guidance.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to the episode and guest Sam Nieves
00:27 - Exploring why conversion therapy survivors struggle to seek therapy
02:39 - The importance of labeling oneself as a survivor and community validation
03:24 - Internalized transphobia and societal expectations delaying self-acceptance
05:36 - Redefining conversion therapy and expanding its understanding
08:07 - The necessity of self-validity and the danger of internalized shame
09:21 - Addressing patriarchal and cisnormative narratives in survivor stories
10:14 - Coercion related to gender expression and societal expectations for women and men
12:24 - The intersection of sex, sensuality, and gender expression coercion in conversion therapy
14:41 - Debunking the phrase “love is love” and embracing diverse expressions of love
15:54 - Exploring asexuality, aromanticism, and the importance of community acceptance
17:36 - The importance of validating diverse identities beyond societal boxes
20:22 - Access to information and social media’s role in liberation and visibility
21:00 - The impact of labels, identity fluidity, and the risks of conversion practices on identity expression
22:23 - Parental fears, gender exploration, and accepting diverse journeys
23:53 - The importance of allies understanding but avoiding moral absolutism in support
27:56 - The role of curiosity, attunement, and holding space in therapy with survivors
29:42 - The importance of curiosity and humility in therapeutic practice
30:21 - Recognizing symbolic trauma and encouraging healing through emotional expression
31:40 - The therapeutic need to hold space for anger and grief
33:59 - The danger of minimizing or invalidating survivor emotions and boundary setting
36:33 - Religious trauma, death anxiety, and spiritual implications of survival
37:14 - Navigating fears of emotional overwhelm and self-harm in therapy
37:59 - The importance of safe, non-judgmental spaces for confronting difficult emotions
38:24 - The ongoing critique and evolution of therapy for better inclusion of survivors’ needs
39:19 - How survivor stories and resilience can inform healing and advocacy
40:50 - Key findings from research on healing needs: community, validation, facing the past
42:28 - Building sober, affirming community and avoiding dissociation through substance use
45:17 - The journey of self-discovery, reclaiming identity, and embracing authenticity
47:02 - Closing remarks on the power of shared stories and gratitude



Resources:

* https://conversiontherapysurvivors.org/ — Support and advocacy organization
* https://www.amazon.ca/Shame-Sex-Attraction-Survivors-Stories-Conversion/dp/1805011324 — Personal stories of healing
* https://asexuality.org/ — Education and community for ace identities
* @cantpraymeaway on Instagram and TikTok

Join us on The Liberated Porch as Kit Morgan, a trans and queer therapist and educator hosts Dr. Lucas Wilson, an academic and survivor of conversion therapy to discuss the complex intersections of White Christian Nationalism, the Holocaust, and conversion therapy. This episode dives into personal stories of evangelical experiences and influences, historical contexts of White Christian Nationalism from the mid-twentieth century being reflected in society today, and the complex trauma of eugenics.

In this episode:

• The trauma and repercussions of attending evangelical institutions like Liberty University
• The racist and sexist roots of religious and educational systems
• How Holocaust history and survivor literature inform current queer trauma work
• The evolution of conversion therapy and its ties to the HIV/AIDS crisis
• Intergenerational trauma transmission—epigenetic, social, and structural
• The importance of centering marginalized voices, especially trans and gender diverse communities
• Practical advice for responding empathetically to survivors' stories and histories

Timestamps:

• (00:00) Introduction: Religion, spirituality, and oppression of queer communities
• (02:01) Personal histories at Liberty University and its complex legacy
• (05:04) The scandal and political shifts involving Jerry Falwell Jr.
• (09:19) Motivations for attending conservative religious colleges
• (14:02) The influence of religious education on perceptions of race and history
• (18:32) Dr. Wilson’s work on Holocaust survivor literature and its relationship to trauma
• (26:16) Transition from Holocaust research to examining white Christian nationalism and LGBTQ+ issues
• (28:53) The concept of epigenetics and intergenerational trauma transmission
• (31:07) Personal experiences with HIV/AIDS fears and societal stigma
• (37:02) The origins and rise of conversion therapy linked to the HIV/AIDS crisis
• (44:09) Focus shift toward gender minorities and ongoing erasure
• (47:42) Amplifying marginalized voices and survivor stories
• (51:12) How to respond with empathy to survivor narratives
• (53:39) Closing thoughts on listening and questions as tools for healing

Resources & Links:

• Shame Sex Attraction - Survivor Stories of Conversion Therapy
• At Home with the Holocaust: Postmemory, Domestic Space, and Second-Generation Holocaust Narratives
• Elie Wiesel’s Night
• Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity

Connect with Dr. Lucas Wilson:

• LinkedIn

What if liberation from religious trauma is less about leaving faith behind — and more about reclaiming your true self? On this episode of The Liberated Porch, Kit Morgan, a trans and queer, licensed clinical social worker, therapist, and educator has walked a path through the hell of Christian fundamentalism and into religious trauma recovery.

Kit reveals how embracing your gender and sexuality authenticity can be an act of profound liberation — even in the face of oppressive doctrines.

Growing up amidst the echoes of Baptist prayers, purity culture, and conversion therapy, Kit recounts their journey from a childhood filled with church sermons, strict school rules, and deep internal conflict, to a radical act of self-acceptance in the remote woods of the Adirondacks. They share how the mountains became a sanctuary for letting go of others’ expectations — and how that process of shedding religious shame opened the door to genuine freedom.

This episode isn’t about telling you what to believe — it’s about giving you permission to define your own path to liberation from religious trauma, whether that means holding onto faith, redefining what spirituality means to you, or stepping away entirely.

If you're wrestling with religious trauma, gender identity, or sexuality, this conversation offers hope, validation, and a bold reminder: your authentic self deserves space to breathe for anyone questioning the impact of faith on their gender and sexuality, or for allies seeking to understand religious trauma’s layered effects. Discover how healing isn’t a one-size-fits-all process — it’s a personal revolution. Tune in and find your porch of liberation.

Summary

The Liberated Porch Podcast explores the use of religion and spirituality to oppress individuals based on their gender and sexuality. Through solo and guest co-host episodes, Kit Morgan delves into the impact of religious trauma on the queer population from their families and faith orientation backgrounds.