What would your utopia look like?

A socialist state where everyone shares the same communal underwear, and you stay in the education system until retirement age?

A fascistic wonderland where you’re forced to chant the leader’s name for ten minutes, five times a day, but you do get to enjoy unlimited Aperol Spritz?

Or would yours be built entirely around how, as a society, we treat Ant and Dec?

It’s a tough one.

In his last novel, Island, Aldous Huxley begins to paint a picture of a possible utopia as he sees it.

To figure out how successful Huxley is at doing so, I’m joined by a person I’d certainly offer a leadership position in my own literary-based dictatorship—the brilliant artist, musician, and writer, Richard Phoenix.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the artist, musician, and writer Richard Phoenix, author of Do Your Own Thing, published by Rough Trade Books. We discuss his pick for the library, the 1962 novel Island by Aldous Huxley.

About Richard

Richard Phoenix is an artist integrating painting, writing, music, and facilitation. He creates work that explores the rhythm, harmony, and dissonance to be found in co-operation, support, and art-making, and the resulting balance between care and domination to be navigated. Arriving at painting not through formal education but through many years playing in DIY bands and working within learning disability arts as creative support, these experiences profoundly influenced the way Richard approaches making and thinking about art.

About Aldous

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) was an English writer, philosopher, and intellectual, born into a prominent family, famous for his dystopian novel Brave New World (1932) and his explorations into mysticism and psychedelic drugs, notably in The Doors of Perception (1954). Despite near-blindness as a youth, he became a prolific author, moving to California in 1937, where he wrote screenplays, explored Eastern philosophies, and chronicled his drug-induced visions, leaving a legacy as a humanist and social commentator.  

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order Island by Aldous Huxley and Do Your Own Thing by Richard Phoenix from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Find Richard Phoenix on Instagram here.

* Find out more about Richard’s art practice here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel, Still Nothing. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

I once saw Carey Mulligan in the bar at the Royal Court Theatre in Sloane Square.

In my memory, it was just the two of us. Or at least, it was quiet. I seem to remember the bar was downstairs. Or it was dark.

I didn’t dare speak to her or say hello. But she looked like a nice person.

Reflecting on the encounter now, decades later, I don’t know why I was in the bar of the Royal Court Theatre at all, and regardless, this is all barely relevant, except that in the film adaptation of Ishiguro’s Never Let Me Go, Mulligan plays Cathy, the novel’s narrator.

And that’s really why we’re assembled here today, you and I, because my excellent guest for Episode 29 of the show, the right honorable Sam Reid, chose to discuss Ishiguro’s famous novel about three young people coming to terms with their inevitable—and somewhat unfortunate—destiny.

I’m glad he did, because it makes for a fascinating chat, which I hope you enjoy.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Sam Reid, author of The Pin Jar, published by Rough Trade Books. We discuss his pick for the library, the 2005 novel Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro.

About Sam

Sam Reid is the editor of Field, a biannual literary magazine that platforms emerging voices alongside established novelists and poets. He is also the presenter of the Field Ramble podcast, a fortnightly long-form interview with some of the most exciting and innovative writers working in English today. His poetry has previously been published by Dunlin Press, and he is a graduate of the MMU creative writing MA programme. He lives in Sussex and spends as much time in its forests, hills, and sea as possible. The Pin Jar is his debut novel.

About Kazuo

Kazuo Ishiguro was born in Nagasaki, Japan, in 1954 and moved to Britain at the age of five. His works of fiction have earned him many honours around the world, including the Nobel Prize in Literature and the Booker Prize. His books have been translated into over fifty languages, and The Remains of the Day and Never Let Me Go were both made into acclaimed films. He received a knighthood in 2018 for Services to Literature. He also holds the decorations of Chevalier de l’Ordre des Arts et des Lettres from France and the Order of the Rising Sun, Gold and Silver Star from Japan. His most recent novel, Klara and the Sun, was a number one Sunday Times bestseller in both hardback and paperback. Ishiguro also works occasionally as a screenwriter. His screenplay for the 2022 film Living received Academy Award (Oscar) and BAFTA nominations.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro and The Pin Jar by Sam Reid from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Learn more about Field Zine, which Sam edits and publishes here.

* Find Sam Reid on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel, Still Nothing. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

You could spend an entire podcast unpicking the bizarre circumstances that found a working-class kid from Grimsby on a business class flight to Las Vegas, reading a book about an American ex-marine growing up in poverty-stricken Bacon County, Georgia.

But this is not that podcast.

Still, 30,000 feet above the Atlantic is where I found myself recently reading Harry Crews’s fascinating memoir A Childhood: The Biography of a Place.

I’d never heard of the book before, nor—to my shame—Harry Crews.

Thankfully, I have now. And it’s all thanks to the brilliant writer Adelle Stripe, who picked Crews’s terribly overlooked book to discuss for the latest episode of the show.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Adelle Stripe, author of several excellent books, most recently Base Notes: The Scents of a Life, published by White Rabbit Books. We discuss her pick for the library, the 1978 memoir A Childhood: The Biography of a Place by Harry Crews.

About Adelle

Adelle Stripe is an author and journalist whose writing explores working-class culture, hidden histories, popular music, and small-town life. Adelle’s debut novel, Black Teeth and a Brilliant Smile, was based on the life and work of Bradford playwright Andrea Dunbar. It was shortlisted for the Gordon Burn Prize and Portico Prize for Literature. A new edition was recently republished by Virago Press. Her second book, Ten Thousand Apologies, was shortlisted for the Penderyn Music Book Prize. Co-written with Lias Saoudi, the biography charts the rise, fall, and eventual salvage of one of the UK’s most controversial bands. It was a Rough Trade book of the year and a Sunday Times bestseller. Told through a prism of vintage perfumes, Base Notes is her poetic, poignant, and bleakly comic coming-of-age memoir set in the closing years of the late 20th century. It is a Telegraph book of the year. As a journalist, Adelle has contributed to The Quietus, Yorkshire Post, Tribune, Record Collector, TLS, and many more. She was a Burgess Fellow at the University of Manchester in 2023 and holds an MA and a PhD in Creative Writing. She lives in West Yorkshire, UK.

About Harry

Harry Crews (1935–2012) was an American novelist, essayist, and University of Florida professor known for his gritty, darkly comic portrayals of Southern life. Raised in rural poverty, he channeled hardship into raw, violent, and deeply human stories exploring obsession, survival, and the grotesque underbelly of the American South.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order A Childhood: The Biography of a Place by Harry Crews and Base Notes: The Scents of a Life by Adelle Stripe from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Watch one of the documentaries—The Rough South of Harry Crews—that Adelle mentions.

* Find Adelle Stripe on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel, Still Nothing. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

Shōbōgenzō, he said.

Bless you, I replied, and passed him a tissue.

No, you idiot. That’s the book. I want to talk about Shōbōgenzō, The Treasury of the True Dharma Eye.

It’s the time of year, I said. Here, have another tissue.

At this point, Litt smacked me over the head with a huge volume of Buddhist teaching, and at the same time, I heard the faint sound of a cymbal crash and the music from Benny Hill.

Back in reality, I went away and began reading the teachings of Zen Master Dögen as the great writer Toby Litt suggested I should.

I’m glad I did. They’re fascinating, and in this episode, I had the pleasure of quizing Toby (a writer I’ve long admired) about those very teachings.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Toby Litt, author of a great many excellent books, and most recently A Writer’s Diary, published by Galley Beggar Press. We discuss his pick for the library, the 13th-century writing of Zen Master Dögen, collected as Shōbōgenzō, or The Treasury of the True Dharma Eye.

About Toby

Toby Litt is a writer, academic, and activist. He has published novels, short story collections, non-fiction, and poems. His most recent book is A Writer’s Diary (Galley Beggar, 2023), and his continuation of the diary is one of the most popular writing newsletters on Substack. His novel Patience was shortlisted for the Republic of Consciousness Prize. Toby is a Granta Best of Young British Novelist and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature. His story ‘The Retreat’ won the Short Fiction/University of Essex Prize. He is a member of English Pen and editor of the Writers Rebel website. The recent Netflix 8-part series Dead Boy Detectives was based on Toby’s run on the comic of the same name. The ebook of this was the #1 bestselling Comic & Graphic Novel on Amazon. When he is not writing, Toby likes sitting doing nothing. Toby is Head of Creative Writing at the University of Southampton.

About Dögen

Dōgen (1200–1253) was a Japanese Zen master, philosopher, and founder of the Sōtō school of Zen Buddhism. After studying in China, he emphasized shikantaza (“just sitting”) meditation. His masterpiece, Shōbōgenzō, explored enlightenment in everyday life, uniting profound insight with poetic expression, profoundly shaping Japanese Buddhist thought and practice.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order A Writer’s Diary by Toby Litt from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Learn more about Zen Master Dogen in this YouTube video sharing four lessons from his teaching.

* Find Toby Litt on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel, Still Nothing. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

What if, instead of trying to date Andie MacDowell, Bill Murray had spent Groundhog Day questioning existence in Danish?

Granted, it’s not a what-if you’ve probably thought about before.

Yet in many ways, the first volume of Solvej Balle’s On the Calculation of Volume goes some way towards imagining it.

Of course, I jest. But only a little.

The basic premise of the novel is the same as Bill’s dilemma. But Balle takes the implications of being trapped in time to a whole different—and significantly more philosophical—level.

Thankfully, to help me navigate such unsteady philosophical ground, I’m joined by the excellent Hannah Patterson to discuss the book and what being forced to live a single day in November over and over again would mean.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Hannah Patterson, author of Ungone. We discuss her pick for the library, the 2020 novel On the Calculation of Volume by Solvej Balle, translated by Barbara J. Haveland.

About Hannah

Hannah Patterson has written for stage and screen. Recent plays include MUCH, Giving, Platinum, Eden, and Playing With Grown Ups, which was nominated for a West End Award for Best New Play. As a writer for film, she’s working on features with filmmakers such as Desperate Optimists duo Christine Molloy & Joe Lawlor, Turner Prize-winning artist Mark Leckey, and visual artist Melanie Manchot. She has won The Athena List, in association with Amazon Studios, and the Galway Film Fleadh Best Pitch Award, and is a producer of the award-winning documentary Shelter in Place. She has written extensively about cinema and culture for books and publications, including the Guardian, Time Out, and Sight & Sound, is editor of the acclaimed essay collection Poetic Visions of America: The Cinema of Terence Malick, and regularly hosts Q&As for festivals and venues such as the BFI, the Barbican, BAFTA, and Curzon. Ungone, her first novel, is published by Rough Trade Books.

About Solvej

Solvej Balle is a Danish writer. She is best known for her multi-volume work of fiction, On the Calculation of Volume, the first three books of which won the Nordic Council Literature Prize and the first book of which was shortlisted for the International Booker Prize.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order On the Calculation of Volume by Solvej Balle and pick up a copy of Ungone from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Find Hannah Patterson on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

Ah, Ben Lerner.

Who doesn’t love Ben Lerner?

Seriously. Get in touch.

That said, despite being a big fan of his work, I also find him maddening at times. Partly because I wish I could write as cleverly as he does. Partly because I hope never to write as cleverly as he does. As they say, it’s complicated.

What isn’t at all maddening is talking about Ben Lerner with fellow fans, and so I was over the moon when Gurnaik Johal (a brilliant writer in his own right) chose The Topeka School as his pick for the library.

We discuss bringing your own baggage to a novel, the weaponisation of language, and why Ben Lerner is such an intelligent writer.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Gurnaik Johal, author of We Move and, most recently, Saraswati. We discuss his pick for the library, the 2019 novel The Topeka School by Ben Lerner.

About Gurnaik

Gurnaik Johal is a writer from West London. He was shortlisted for The Guardian 4th Estate BAME Short Story Prize in 2018 and graduated from The University of Manchester in 2019. Johal’s short story collection, We Move, published by Serpent’s Tail, was the Winner of the 2023 Somerset Maugham Award, Winner of the Tata Literature Live! First Book Award, a Guardian Book of the Year and a Hindustan Times Book of the Year. Its opening story also won the Galley Beggar Short Story Prize. His debut novel, Saraswati, published in 2025 by Serpent’s Tail, was shortlisted for the Waterstones Debut Fiction Prize. Johal was also named an Observer Best New Novelist for 2025.

About Ben

Ben Lerner was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1979. He has received fellowships from the Fulbright, Guggenheim and MacArthur Foundations, and is the author of three internationally acclaimed novels, Leaving the Atocha Station, 10:04 and The Topeka School. He has published several poetry collections, including No Art, The Lichtenberg Figures, which won the Hayden Carruth Award, Angle of Yaw (a finalist for the National Book Award), and Mean Free Path. In 2011, he became the first American to win the Munster Prize for International Poetry. Lerner lives and teaches in Brooklyn.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order The Topeka School by Ben Lerner and pick up a copy of Saraswati from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Find Gurnaik Johal on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel about a delivery driver who accidentally kidnaps a pig. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

You’ve got to love Werner Herzog.

Confronted with the news that his friend was dying, his reaction was to walk 500-plus miles across Europe (during Winter) to see her.

He declared the world would “not permit her to die” before he had completed the journey.

It’s a bold move, and one he documented in a fascinating sliver of a book called Of Walking in Ice.

In researching ahead of her own ambitious trek (across the North of England, from St Bees to Robin Hood’s Bay), acclaimed writer—and generally lovely person—Jenn Ashworth stumbled on Herzog’s strange account and was captivated by it.

Familiar with the book myself and a big fan of Herzog, it was an absolute pleasure to discuss it with her for the show.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Jenn Ashworth, author of Ghosted and most recently The Parallel Path. We discuss her pick for the library, the 1978 memoir Of Walking in Ice by Werner Herzog.

About Jenn

Jenn Ashworth’s first novel, A Kind of Intimacy, was published in 2009 and won a Betty Trask Award. On the publication of her second, Cold Light (Sceptre, 2011) she was featured on the BBC’s The Culture Show as one of the UK’s twelve best new writers. In 2019, she published a memoir-in-essays, Notes Made While Falling, which was a New Statesman Book of the Year and was shortlisted for the Gordon Burn Prize. Her most recent novel, Ghosted: A Love Story, was shortlisted for the Portico Prize in 2022. Her memoir, The Parallel Path, was published by Sceptre in 2025. She lives in Lancashire and is a Professor of Writing at Lancaster University.

About Werner

Werner Herzog has produced, written and directed more than seventy features and documentary films, including the multi-award-winning Grizzly Man, Aguirre, The Wrath of God, Fitzcarraldo, My Best Fiend, Cave of Forgotten Dreams, Nosferatu, Lessons of Darkness, Little Dieter Needs to Fly, Into the Inferno, Meeting Gorbachev and Encounters at the End of the World. He has also directed many operas and published more than a dozen books of prose, including Conquest of the Useless, Of Walking on Ice, The Twilight World, and, most recently, his acclaimed memoir, Every Man for Himself and God against All. In 2025, he was awarded a Golden Lion for Lifetime Achievement at the Venice International Film Festival.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order Of Walking in Ice by Werner Herzog and pick up a copy of The Parallel Path from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Watch the greatest ever clip of Werner Herzog in the jungle here.

* Find Jenn Ashworth on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel about a delivery driver who accidentally kidnaps a pig. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

Toni Morrison wrote that you can’t understand the history of America unless you understand the history of African American women.

Reading The Waterbearers by Sasha Bonét, I see why.

The Toni Morrison quote acts as an epigraph for what I found to be a thoughtful, elegant, and profound memoir.

It’s also an honest account of motherhood and the challenges that come with it (as well as the joys).

Given my somewhat limited experience of being a mother, I thankfully had the brilliant writer Anna Whitwham to help me navigate and explore the subject, and Sasha Bonét’s often moving memoir. (Anna’s book on motherhood, Soft Tissue Damage, is also excellent, btw.)

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the writer Anna Whitwham, author of Boxer Handsome and Soft Tissue Damage. We discuss her pick for the library, the 2025 memoir The Waterbearers by Sasha Bonét.

About Anna

Anna Whitwham was born in 1981 in London, where she still lives. She studied Drama and English at the University of California, Los Angeles, Queens University Belfast and at Royal Holloway, London where she teaches a course called ‘Writing Men: The Burden of Masculinity’. She is the author of Boxer Handsome (Chatto & Windus), and her latest book, Soft Tissue Damage, was published by Rough Trade Books in 2025.

About Sasha

Sasha Bonét is a writer and cultural critic based in New York City. Her criticism and essays have appeared in The Paris Review, Aperture, New York Magazine, Vogue, and BOMB, among other publications. Bonét is a professor of creative writing for Columbia University and Barnard College. The Waterbearers will be published in the UK by Penguin.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Pre-order The Waterbearers by Sasha Bonét and pick up a copy of Anna’s most recent book, Soft Tissue Damage, from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Find Anna Whitwham on Instagram here.

* Find Sasha Bonét on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel about a delivery driver who accidentally kidnaps a pig. Brave/bold agents: hit me up.

After he’d written Smallcreep’s Day, Peter Currell Brown never wrote another book.

He disappeared from the world of literature completely and started making strange ceramic pots in the woods.

I mean, we’ve all done it, right?

Okay. Maybe not. And I guess to some extent, that’s what makes the book up for discussion in this latest episode of the show so interesting.

Indeed, this strange and singular book was a huge influence on my very special guest—another Something Something Brown, the author of the excellent Ironopolis and Mother Naked, the wonderful Glen James Brown.

We revisit Glen’s first experience of the book and discuss how he feels about it today.

Plus, we of course discuss what it’s like to live your life with only one N in your name.

Welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, the N-rich, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to help us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge), you can become a supporter of the library by upgrading your subscription.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the author Glen James Brown. We discuss his pick for the library, the 1965 novel Smallcreep’s Day by Peter Currell Brown.

About Glen

Glen James Brown is a British author acclaimed for his portrayals of working-class life in northern England. Born in 1982 in Chester-le-Street, County Durham, he studied English at Leeds Beckett University. He earned an MA in Creative Writing from the University of Chichester, where he received the Kate Betts Memorial Prize. His debut novel, Ironopolis (2018), was shortlisted for both the 2019 Orwell Prize and the 2020 Portico Prize. Brown's second novel, Mother Naked (2024), was inspired by a 15th-century Durham Cathedral record of a minstrel named Modyr Nakett. Currently residing in Manchester, Brown also works as a part-time university writing tutor.

About Peter

Peter Currell Brown, born in 1936 in Colchester, Essex, is a British author best known for his singular novel, Smallcreep's Day, published in 1965. Leaving Colchester Royal Grammar School at the age of fifteen, Brown entered the workforce, taking a factory job that would later inspire his only novel. Smallcreep's Day is a surreal satire on modern industrial life, following the character Pinquean Smallcreep as he navigates the labyrinthine corridors of a vast factory in search of meaning. The novel gained a cult following and was reissued in 2008 by Pinter & Martin. After marrying in 1962 and starting a family, Brown moved to rural Gloucestershire, where he worked various jobs, before focusing on craft pottery.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

* Order Smallcreep’s Day by Peter Currell Brown and Glen’s most recent novel, Mother Naked, from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

* Read six interesting facts about Peter Currell Brown from his daughter here.

* Listen to the album Smallcreep’s Day by Mike Rutherford here.

* Find the artist Glenn Brown here.

* Find Glen James Brown on Instagram here.

* Find Glenn Fisher on Instagram here.

* Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel about a man who accidentally kidnaps a pig. Brave/insane agents: hit me up.

Do you know who designed the Twin Towers?

Probably not.

Chances are, you don’t know who designed most of the buildings you instantly recognize.

Why is that?

Well, this is one of many fascinating ideas I explore with my guest in the latest episode of the show, as we discuss a relatively little-known book called Sandfuture, by the American artist Justin Beal.

Oh, and what a guest I have for you today…

It was an insanely enormous pleasure to be joined from Toronto by the brilliant musician and writer, Meg Remy, who you might better know as U.S. Girls.

Indeed, welcome to The Library of Lazy Thinking Podcast, with me, your host, Glenn Fisher.

As you may well know by now, in each episode, I'm joined by a guest from the world of books and culture to talk about a specific book they'd like to put in the library.

There's no plan and no agenda, just two people lazily thinking about literature.

If you enjoy the show and would like to support us (and get your hands on a coveted Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge in the process), you can upgrade your subscription on either a monthly or annual basis.

But either way, please do like and share the show—it all helps.

In this episode, as I say, my very special guest is the musician and writer, Meg Remy. We discuss her pick for the library, the 2021 biography Sandfuture by Justin Beal.

About Meg

Meg Remy is a multi-disciplinary artist, performer, and author. Originally from Illinois, she is established as one of the most acclaimed songwriters and performers to emerge from Toronto’s eclectic underground music scene, where she currently lives. Primarily known as the creative force behind the musical entity U.S. Girls, her celebrated discography includes three Polaris Prize-shortlisted albums: Half Free (2015), In A Poem Unlimited (2018), and Heavy Light (2020). All three albums also garnered Juno nominations for Best Alternative Album. In 2021, Remy made her authorial debut with her memoir Begin By Telling. Her most recent album, Scratch It (2025), is released by 4AD.

About Justin

Justin Beal is an artist with an extensive exhibition history in the United States and Europe. He graduated from Yale University with a degree in architecture and continued his studies at the Whitney Independent Study Program and the University of Southern California. His work has been reviewed in The New York Times, The New Yorker, Artforum, Frieze, Art in America, and The Los Angeles Times, and is included in the permanent collections of the Albright-Knox Museum, the Hammer Museum, and the Museum of Contemporary Art, Los Angeles. He teaches at Hunter College and Sandfuture is his first book.

Links to obscure (and not so obscure) things mentioned in this episode

Order Sandfuture by Justin Beal from my local independent bookshop in Sheffield here.

Listen to U.S. Girls on Spotify here.

Watch Minoru Yamazaki’s Pruitt Igoe building being demolished here.

Find Meg on Instagram here.

Find Glenn on Instagram here.

Find The Library of Lazy Thinking on Instagram here.

About the Library

The Library of Lazy Thinking is a place to hang out and learn more about books. If you’d like to support the library and get access to everything here, you can become a paid member (and get an exclusive The Library of Lazy Thinking bookmark, sticker, and pin badge). All support goes back into the library, helping to organize live events, exclusive merchandise, and more podcasts.

About Glenn

Glenn Fisher is a writer—wait, Glenn Fisher is me. I’m the one writing this. Let’s drop the third-person act. My writing has been published in Lunate, The Paris Bitter Hearts Pit, 3am Magazine, Dogmatika, and Litro Magazine. I write about books and interview other writers and artists here in The Library of Lazy Thinking. I live in Sheffield and work as a freelance copywriter. I have had a best-selling non-fiction book published on the subject called The Art of the Click. It was published by Harriman House and shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. It has been translated into Simplified Chinese and Korean. I also have a dog called Pablo. He is harder to translate. Indeed, most of my life revolves around trying to understand his often unreasonable demands. Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first novel about a man who accidentally kidnaps a pig. Brave/insane agents: hit me up.