The Longer Game

Humans have a tendency to shy away from failure, and for good reason. 

It hurts. It could cost us our jobs. 

But what if on the other side of that failure lived an innovation that drove amazing change? 

Maybe we'd think about failure differently. We think so. 

R.J. Talyor, CEO & Founder of Backstroke, joins us on this episode to talk about his favorite subject: failure. 

"Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it." — Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. 

Walt Disney also said, "If you can dream it, you can do it." 

The current economy surrounding AI has a lot of hype but also a lot of potential. There is this potential for us to leverage AI to allow us to be more human, yet we tend to focus on the dark side where humans are no longer needed. 

Sure, change is coming. 

People will lose jobs or remain out of work because of AI tech implementation. 

But could there be more that lives on the other side of that? We think so. 

Grab your goggles and swim cap and let's dive right into it.

What they cover

1. AI has evolved dramatically from the 1950s to where we are now in the world of generative AI. It's enabled us to do things better & faster.
2. All the AI hype about job replacement and destruction is an alamarist signaling for attention. The reality is change is on the horizon and there will be job loss but the potential is incredible.
3. Beyond the AI hype is true creativity again. AI allows us to take the things machines can do well off our plates and truly lean into our humanness, i.e. creating art or building relationships.
4. AI needs a why and an end goal to truly be functional. You can't just implement AI technology. You need to know why you're doing it and what you hope to achieve at the end of it for it to truly be a successful project.

The Longer Game explores the future of retail across Amazon, ecommerce, and brick-and-mortar.

The goal is simple: help brands grow by understanding how all channels work together.

Retail is evolving. The brands that win are the ones willing to adapt.

Subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.

Learn more: https://thelongergame.com

About the Guest: 

R. J. Talyor is a leading voice in email marketing and applied AI. A veteran of ExactTarget, he founded Pattern89, acquired by Shutterstock in 2021. Today he is Co-Founder & CEO of Backstroke, helping brands use AI to drive 10 to 30% more revenue from email, SMS, and mobile.

Connect with R.J.: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rjtalyor/ 

Website: https://www.backstroke.com

About the Host:

Michael Maher is Chief Idea Officer of Cartology, an Amazon-focused agency helping brands grow revenue and profitability.

Connect with Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

Email: [email protected]

Sponsored by Cartology

https://thinkcartology.com

Being a Founder is hard. There are an endless barrage of obstacles facing you at any given moment. Doing that with a Co-Founder, well that often feels harder because now you've got two people who need to make the decisions: two people who aren't always on the same page.

What if we told you there was a better way to do it?

What if you could build with a Co-Founder by leveraging your strengths and taking ego out of it?

Well your day has arrived. Kiki Couchman, Co-Founder of Sourmilk, joins us on this episode to discuss what it's like to intentionally build a CPG company as a big fish in a small pond, how to be a great Co-Founder, and why your gut health is so damn important. Kiki and her Co-Founder Elan Halpern has something special going on here.

We dive into the excitement of early stage building, showcasing how being scrappy is an amazing skill set.

Unsure of the difference between an influencer and a content creator? Yeah we cover that too. Grab a spoon, your sourmilk, and get ready for earful.

The Longer Game explores the future of retail across Amazon, ecommerce, and brick-and-mortar.

The goal is simple: help brands grow by understanding how all channels work together.

Retail is evolving. The brands that win are the ones willing to adapt.

Subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.

Learn more: https://thelongergame.com

About the Guest: 

Sourmilk is an NYC-based, women-founded brand creating organic, grass-fed, Greek-style yogurt designed specifically for gut health. Kiki Couchman is Co-Founder, building Sourmilk to make gut health accessible through everyday food.

Connect with Kiki:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirsten-kiki-c-242929112/

Website: https://sourmilk.com

Instagram: @getsourmilk | @couchwoman

About the Host:

Michael Maher is Chief Idea Officer of Cartology, an Amazon-focused agency helping brands grow revenue and profitability.

Connect with Michael:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

Email: [email protected]

Sponsored by Cartology https://thinkcartology.com

Low and slow sounds great for a rack of ribs. 

Growing a business that way, though, sounds risky. 

Will there be enough revenue? 

Will the window close? 

The reality is that growing slowly gives brands luxuries that fast-moving, well-funded competitors simply cannot afford.

Victoria Berk, Founder and CEO of Know Good, joins host Michael Maher to share her journey of building intentionally. Know Good's break-and-bake chocolate chip cookie dough is made with clean, better-for-you ingredients and is already selling out across New York City. Victoria shares how staying local, listening closely to customers, and validating demand before scaling has been the foundation of everything.

The conversation also digs into how consumer thinking around nutrition is shifting, why ingredient transparency is becoming a real competitive advantage, and how keeping a product format familiar can actually be the smartest innovation move a brand makes.

What they cover

• Why founders need a little naivety to stay connected to their mission
• How slow growth creates product validation advantages capital cannot buy
• Why there is never a good time to take a risk, so the best time is now
• What the consumer shift around nutrition means for brands on shelf and online
• How to innovate without overwhelming customers with too much that is new

The Longer Game explores the future of retail across Amazon, ecommerce, and brick-and-mortar. 

The goal is simple: help brands grow by understanding how all channels work together. 

Retail is evolving. The brands that win are the ones willing to adapt. Subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.

Learn more: https://thelongergame.com

About the Guest

Victoria Berk is the founder of Know Good, a brand transforming modern baking and snacking with clean, crave-worthy treats. Know Good's hero product, Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough, is selling out across NYC. As a Nutritionist and MBA graduate, Victoria is pursuing her passion for wellness by bringing thoughtfully crafted, indulgent products to life. Before founding Know Good, she worked at consumer startups including Goop and Obe Fitness, as well as in management consulting.

Connect with Victoria

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriaberk15/

Website: https://knowgoodfood.com/

Instagram: @knowgoodfoods

About the Host

Michael Maher is Chief Idea Officer of Cartology, an Amazon-focused agency helping brands grow revenue and profitability.

Connect with Michael:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

Email: [email protected]

Sponsored by Cartology

https://thinkcartology.com

Everybody wants more data. 

Everybody says their data driven. 

In reality, who isn't data driven? 

We all make decisions based on data points, it's just not always the right data that drives us. 

What matters is the quality of the data and the actual story that data is telling us. 

James Gossling, Co-Founder of Bispoke, joined us to talk about the importance of the right data and how you visualize it. In working with Amazon, he has seen how siloed the data is, making it harder to make the right decision for your brand. The solution: bringing all the data you need into one place to make a better decision faster. 

More data doesn't equal more revenue. Deciding on the right data, then getting it visualized properly is what leads brands to crush the competition. 

Grab your creatine and fish oil and let's get poppin'.

The Longer Game explores the future of retail across Amazon, ecommerce, and brick-and-mortar.

The goal is simple: help brands grow by understanding how all channels work together.

Retail is evolving. The brands that win are the ones willing to adapt.

Subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.

Learn more: https://thelongergame.com

About the Guest: 

James Gossling is a seasoned ecommerce and analytics leader with over a decade of hands-on experience driving growth and operational excellence for high-performing digital brands. 

He co-founded Bispoke, a data-driven analytics platform that helps Amazon sellers and brands turn chaotic marketplace data into clear, actionable insights—powering smarter decisions and measurable business outcomes. Bispoke’s tools and dashboards support sellers and vendors representing over $1.5 billion in annual Amazon revenue.

Before Bispoke, James led ecommerce and marketplace strategy for major consumer brands, managing nine-figure Amazon P&Ls and multi-million dollar ad budgets while turning data into growth engines across channels. He is a husband and father of four living in the Salt Lake City, UT area.

Connect with James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgossling/

Website: https://bispoke.io/

About the Host:

Michael Maher is Chief Idea Officer of Cartology, an Amazon-focused agency helping brands grow revenue and profitability.

Connect with Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

Email: [email protected]

Sponsored by Cartology

https://thinkcartology.com

Believing in something when you don't see it is the definition of faith. As an entrepreneur, you have to be persistent in your pursuit of something, even when all the evidence says "you're failing" and nobody else believes your venture will ever get up off the ground.

That's a tough pill to swallow but it's the one Matt Behrend, CEO of Agility, took and survived, finally proving his thesis. Matt and team believed that brand advertising was important but it was often unattainable for brands without huge budgets. They knew it could be more accessible, as well as measured effectively, so that brands of all sizes could invest more into it. And they've done just that. 

After 7 years of hard work, marching with pace and urgency, Matt and team are seeing results in the form of revenue. When you play the long game and believe in what you're doing, it always pays dividends. Mix a scoop of creatine in your water and let's rep this episode out!

In this episode:
• Why most brands fight over the same small group of buyers
• Why performance marketing looks efficient but stalls growth
• How brand advertising actually creates demand
• Why measurement has held brands back
• What it takes to build when there’s no proof it will work

Play the long game long enough, and it pays off.

The Longer Game explores the future of retail across Amazon, ecommerce, and brick-and-mortar.

The goal is simple: help brands grow by understanding how all channels work together.

Retail is evolving. The brands that win are the ones willing to adapt.

Subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.

Learn more: https://thelongergame.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thelongergame
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelongergame

About Matt Behrend:

Matt Behrend is a serial SaaS entrepreneur and CEO of Agility Ads, a precision brand advertising platform built to make brand a predictable growth engine.

He brings 15+ years of experience building and scaling marketing and sales teams at venture-backed SaaS companies, including multiple exits.

Connect with Matt:
https://agilityads.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattbehrend

About the Host:

Michael Maher is Chief Idea Officer of Cartology, an Amazon-focused agency helping brands grow revenue and profitability.

Connect with Michael:
[email protected]
https://www.linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

Sponsored by Cartology
https://thinkcartology.com

Sometimes, solving problems for humans is a walk in the park. You need something that keeps you warm but isn't heavy. Hello down jackets! But what happens when you add the complexity of different cultures? Someone in Tunisia doesn't experience brand messaging the same as someone in Texas. Colors may even hit differently.

Kodai Takahashi, CEO and Co-Founder of Silk The Rich, joins us on this episode of The Longer Game to share the complexities of brand ownership, especially across cultural lines. From playing it safe to risk taker, he gives us his take on exposure to customers, showing us why brands shouldn't be afraid to get rejected. Nobody likes getting told "No" but the truth is, the more interactions we have, the less strange a brand becomes and the more likely we finally stop resisting and say "I'm in." Get your favorite shower radio, start the water, and get to shampooing as we head out on another wild retail adventure.

The Longer Game (@thelongergame) is a podcast focused on leaning into the trends and advancements in retail so brands see a clearer path to success across ALL channels. We’re looking at retail in a whole new way, looking to better understand the future of retail. It’s Retail Reimagined. Sharing hope about the future. No one channel can a business sustain. Go omni-channel.

Like what you’re hearing? Subscribe to our channel and make sure to click or tap the bell so you get notified whenever new episodes drop.

Our guest's name is Kodai Takahashi. He is the founder of SILK THE RICH, a Japanese premium haircare brand.
The brand has been featured in VOGUE and ELLE, and is now expanding in the U.S. while working with stylists and creatives across LA and Tokyo.

You can find them at...
Website: https://linktr.ee/kodai990311
Find them on LinkedIn:   / kodai-takahashi-63588a1a0  
Find them on Instagram:   / kodai_takahashi._  
Find them on Facebook:   / kodai.takahashi.7121  

Big CPG companies have dominated the retail landscape for decades. They've gotten great at R&D, developing the most efficacious products. They know how to build brands, maximize supply chains, and commercialize the heck out of products. But where they've fallen short, small to mid-size brands are picking up the slack. And honestly, they're crushing it. Think poppi, Dude Wipes, Chomps, and any other brand that has been agile and capitalized on consumers trends, turning their companies into hundred million dollar powerhouses.

Kaushik Boruah, Head of CPG & Hospitality at LatentView, is an Analytics Whiz who has worked with these big companies, helping them to close these gaps. He joins us on this episode of The Longer Game, where we go deep into the land of opportunity for today's brands. We talk everything from low barrier to entry into the market to how consumers don't always do what they say they will. Grab your blue Lays and let's get jammin'.

The Longer Game (@thelongergame) is a podcast focused on leaning into the trends and advancements in retail so brands see a clearer path to success across ALL channels. We’re looking at retail in a whole new way, looking to better understand the future of retail. It’s Retail Reimagined. Sharing hope about the future. No one channel can a business sustain. Go omni-channel.

Like what you’re hearing? Subscribe to our channel and make sure to click or tap the bell so you get notified whenever new episodes drop.

Want to learn more about The Longer Game? Head over to https://thelongergame.com to read show notes, watch more episodes, or contact us.

Follow us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/thelongergame

Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thelongergame

Follow us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thelongergame

Our guest's name is Kaushik Boruah. He is a seasoned data science leader with over a decade of experience specializing in building digital and analytics solutions across the CPG and Hospitality industries. As the Business Head – CPG & Hospitality at LatentView Analytics, he focuses on helping leading organizations gain a competitive advantage by addressing critical business challenges through effective analytics interventions and intelligent data mining techniques.

Driven by a passion for leveraging data analytics to solve complex business problems, Kaushik is committed to adding value to organizations by contributing to their growth. He thrives in environments that challenge his expertise and offer opportunities to apply innovative data solutions.

You can find them at...

Website: https://www.latentview.com/about-us/

Find them on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaushik-boruah-ab8aa6125/

Michael Maher, the host, would love to connect with you. Reach out to him at…

Email: [email protected]

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

This podcast is sponsored by Cartology:

https://thinkcartology.com

Find Cartology on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/cartology

Find Cartology on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thinkcartology

Find Cartology on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thinkcartology

Life is hard. It's just a function of the world in which we live. Being unhealthy is hard. Being fit is hard. Communicating is hard. Not communicating is hard. Pick your hard. As we learn to embrace the suck, we actually gain greater mental fortitude, becoming more equipped to handle life's challenges. The CEO & Co-Founder of the one-of-a-kind FroCo ice cream brand Smearcase, Joe Rotondo, joins us on the Season 4 opener of The Longer Game to talk about being an entrepreneur, why he's more excited about how it's building him versus what he's building, and the protein craze that is sweeping the country. We go deep into his faith journey and discuss why constraints in our lives are actually be a really positive thing, leading to a more joy filled life. Grab a pint of Smearcase Strawberry, get your protein on, and get ready for an amazing ride of an episode.

The Longer Game (@thelongergame) is a podcast focused on leaning into the trends and advancements in retail, so brands see a clearer path to success across ALL channels. We’re looking at retail in a whole new way, looking to better understand the future of retail. It’s Retail Reimagined. Sharing hope about the future. No one channel can a business sustain. Go omni-channel.

Like what you’re hearing? Subscribe to our channel and make sure to click or tap the bell so you get notified whenever new episodes drop.

Want to learn more about The Longer Game? Head over to https://thelongergame.com to read show notes, watch more episodes, or contact us.

Follow us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/thelongergame

Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thelongergame

Follow us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thelongergame

Our guest's name is Joe Rotondo. Joe is one of the cofounders of Smearcase - protein-packed frozen cottage cheese. In less than one year, they disrupted the ice cream category and launched into Sprouts and Whole Foods.

You can find them at...

Website: http://smearcase.com

Find them on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephrrotondo/

Find them on Instagram: @eatsmearcase.com

Find them on Facebook: @Smearcase

Michael Maher, the host, would love to connect with you. Reach out to him at…

Email: [email protected]

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

This podcast is sponsored by Cartology and Podcastify Me.

Cartology is a customized, done-for-you service agency that helps brands accelerate growth and get profitable on the Amazon marketplace. They work directly with brands to create a strategy and then go right out and execute it. Want to find out more?

Website: https://thinkcartology.com

Find Cartology on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/cartology

Find Cartology on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thinkcartology

Find Cartology on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thinkcartology

Podcastify Me is designed to help coaches of all kinds enter the podcasting space with minimal lift for them. And, inviting past, current, and future clients to your show as part of your marketing and sales process sets you apart from your competition, in a time where podcasting is really gaining popularity.

Website: https://podcastify.me

Find Podcastify Me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcastify-me/

Find Podcastify Me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/podcastify.me/

Find Podcastify Me on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf2biqOTN2UbZ5aaM4Sx6NQ

Brands don't sell products. They sell benefits. Protein bar company? It's not a meal. It's a consumer who wants to live a better healthier life. Selling soap? Nope, you don't sell soap. You're selling a clean home. Brands often focus on the product to their own detriment, not realizing one important thing; customers don't care about the sale. They just care about the purchase.

Jaime Schwarz, Founder of Brand Therapy, goes deep with us on this episode of The Longer Game to enlighten brands on how to stop hyperventilating over KPIs and instead, be mission focused. Working from a mission focus means you know who you're tribe is and you're going after them, no matter what your role is at the company. Put down your broom, pour some whiskey, and get ready for takeoff.

The Longer Game (@thelongergame) is a podcast focused on leaning into the trends and advancements in retail so brands see a clearer path to success across ALL channels. We’re looking at retail in a whole new way, looking to better understand the future of retail. It’s Retail Reimagined. Sharing hope about the future. No one channel can a business sustain. Go omni-channel.

Like what you’re hearing? Subscribe to our channel and make sure to click or tap the bell so you get notified whenever new episodes drop.

Want to learn more about The Longer Game? Head over to https://thelongergame.com to read show notes, watch more episodes, or contact us.

Follow us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/thelongergame

Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thelongergame

Follow us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thelongergame

Jaime Schwarz is the founder of the discipline and consultancy, Brand Therapy. After an award winning dozen years in the ad industry he built brand therapy to help companies focus on product market fit using all the tools our modern world has at your disposal. To wit, he has the world's oldest NFT patent focused on brand authentication and commercialization in phygital and digital worlds, and has helped dozens of companies from personal brands to Fortune 500's adapt to the world and market of today and tomorrow. He is an adjunct at City College, lives in Hastings on Hudson, NY with his wife and two boys, and serves on the board of Wayfinders on the Hudson, and advisory board of XRSI.org.

You can find them at...

Website: https://brandtherapy.coach/

Find them on LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jaimeschwarz

Find them on Instagram: @jaime.schwarz

Find them on Facebook: /jaimeschwarz

Michael Maher, the host, would love to connect with you. Reach out to him at…

Email: [email protected]

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

This podcast is sponsored by Cartology and Podcastify Me.

Cartology is a customized done-for-you service agency that helps brands accelerate growth and get profitable on the Amazon marketplace. They work directly with brands to create strategy and then go right out and execute it. Want to find out more?

Website: https://thinkcartology.com

Find Cartology on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/cartology

Find Cartology on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thinkcartology

Find Cartology on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thinkcartology

Podcastify Me is designed to help coaches of all kinds enter the podcasting space with minimal lift for them. And, inviting past, current and future clients to your show as part of your marketing and sales process sets you apart from your competition, in a time where podcasting is really gaining popularity.

Website: https://podcastify.me

Find Podcastify Me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcastify-me/

Find Podcastify Me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/podcastify.me/

Find Podcastify Me on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf2biqOTN2UbZ5aaM4Sx6NQ

What do you do when you're bleeding cash as a business? Raise more money? Start letting people go? The real question is, do you even know you're bleeding money? Adam Callinan, Founder & CEO of Pentane, works with businesses each day to solve exactly these kind of financial problems. At BottleKeeper, a brand he started with his cousin that eventually sold to PE, Adam got really good at knowing his numbers and making the right decisions based on that knowledge. That's what lead to several million dollars in sales in the first 3 years with only 4 employees.

The secret? Adam knew his Contribution Profit. Net Profit minus your Fixed Expenses gets you Contribution Profit and it's the key to knowing the revenue you need to generate, and at what cost to minimally hit break even. The problems occur when you don't know your numbers at all or you're unwilling to change things once you do know them. Grab a calculator and let's start cranking.

The Longer Game (@thelongergame) is a podcast focused on leaning into the trends and advancements in retail so brands see a clearer path to success across ALL channels. We’re looking at retail in a whole new way, looking to better understand the future of retail. It’s Retail Reimagined. Sharing hope about the future. No one channel can a business sustain. Go omni-channel.

Like what you’re hearing? Subscribe to our channel and make sure to click or tap the bell so you get notified whenever new episodes drop.

Want to learn more about The Longer Game? Head over to https://thelongergame.com to read show notes, watch more episodes, or contact us.

Follow us on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/thelongergame

Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thelongergame

Follow us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thelongergame

Adam Callinan is the founder of Pentane, an advanced version of the system he used to earn more than $60M in profitable revenue with just 4 employees and 0 investors at his prior eCommerce company. Adam previously co-founded BottleKeeper, a bootstrapped eCommerce brand that achieved $8m in revenue in just its third year, with 0 employees. BottleKeeper later appeared on Shark Tank and was acquired in 2021 by Wind Point Partners/RTIC Outdoors, marking Adam’s second exit. Adam lives in Montana, writes for INC, and hosts the Growth Mavericks podcast, in addition to being a husband, dad, and avid outdoorsman.

You can find them at...

Website: https://pentane.com

Find them on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammcallinan/

Find them on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adam_callinan/

Find them on Facebook: /adam_callinan

Michael Maher, the host, would love to connect with you. Reach out to him at…

Email: [email protected]

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/immichaelmaher

This podcast is sponsored by Cartology and Podcastify Me.

Cartology is a customized done-for-you service agency that helps brands accelerate growth and get profitable on the Amazon marketplace. They work directly with brands to create strategy and then go right out and execute it. Want to find out more?

Website: https://thinkcartology.com

Find Cartology on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/cartology

Find Cartology on Instagram: https://instagram.com/thinkcartology

Find Cartology on Facebook: https://facebook.com/thinkcartology

Podcastify Me is designed to help coaches of all kinds enter the podcasting space with minimal lift for them. And, inviting past, current and future clients to your show as part of your marketing and sales process sets you apart from your competition, in a time where podcasting is really gaining popularity.

Website: https://podcastify.me

Find Podcastify Me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcastify-me/