In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, host Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski sits down with Stephen Embry, founder of TechLaw Crossroads and respected voice in legal technology, to unpack why so many startups miss the mark with their messaging.

They explore how sales teams and sales reps in legal tech can create more effective sales conversations by truly understanding customer pain points and aligning their message with how law firms actually operate. From actively listening during every sales call to using evidence-based sales strategy, Melissa and Steve show how to build trust, not just a pitch.

What You’ll Learn:  

• Why your product or service messaging should reflect their business, not yours
• How to tailor your sales process to match how law firms make decisions
• How sales reps can use open-ended questions to uncover true customers’ pain
• Why actively listening builds rapport and creates more effective sales conversations
• How evidence-based messaging helps your software solution stand out in legal technology
• Tips for building real-time connections that improve customer experiences

Whether you are going to a legal tech conference or changing your sales strategy, this episode can help. It shows you how your team can communicate, sell, and connect with potential clients in the legal field.

Connect with Stephen Embry on LinkedIn.

Chapter Titles:

01:21 – Introducing Stephen Embry of TechLaw Crossroads
03:13 – How Harvey Won Big Law and Became a Unicorn
06:45 – Avoiding Common Messaging Mistakes With Modern Buyers
09:04 – Showing Evidence Over Marketing Jargon in Law Firm Sales
12:28 – Chasing AmLaw Firms Misses 80% of the Market
17:33 – “Saving Time” Fails as a Messaging Strategy
18:59 – Applying Jevons Paradox to Legal Tech Growth
22:10 – Adapting Messaging to Evolving Legal Buyer Behavior
26:16 – Delivering Real Solutions Instead of Future Promises
29:37 – Using Content to Build Trust and Authority
32:49 – Iterating Content Strategy With Sales Every Quarter
34:50 – Learning Buyer Needs Directly at Lawyer Conferences
36:36 – Building Trust and Opportunity at Local Bar Events
41:15 – Build Credibility Beyond Vendor-Only Messaging
46:17 – Demonstrating AI Solutions by Solving Real Pain Points
48:38 – Replace Buzzwords with Buyer-Centric Language
52:03 – Sharing Tips to Get Your Messaging Right

SEO Keywords: solution selling, customer pain points, legal tech, sales conversations, law and technology, legal tech conference

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Many legal tech and B2B companies struggle to move prospects through the sales cycle. When sales reps walk into sales calls without preparation or rely only on marketing to deliver leads they miss opportunities for closed deals and stronger customer relationships.

Episode Overview:  

In this episode of the Marketing Phoenix Podcast, host Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski welcomes Chris Cangero, founder and CEO of DocStyle. Chris shares his entrepreneurial journey and explains why so many legal tech startups and law firm vendors face challenges with client acquisition and customer base growth.

The conversation highlights how sales reps can improve discovery call, refine sales conversations, and use consultative selling to build trust with decision makers. They also discuss how aligning sales strategy with targeted marketing, buyer personas, and case studies helps create a more customer-centric approach that drives higher conversion rates.

What You’ll Learn:  

• Why legal tech sales cycles are longer—and how to adapt your sales strategy
• The dangers of winging a sales pitch vs. preparing for discovery call
• How discovery calls fuel solution selling success
• Why sales and marketing must align for client acquisition
• Tips for using marketing collateral to reinforce selling strategies

Connect with Chris Cangero on LinkedIn.

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Cold outreach sucks. For most law firm buyers, cold emails without context are an instant delete.

Legal tech startups and B2B sales teams can’t afford to waste time on outdated sales approaches. The good news? Outbound sales feels different when sales reps use marketing insights, consultative selling, and solution selling strategies that build trust with decision makers.

In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski shows why cold outreach fails and shares practical ways to fix it. She shares insights from law firm buyers and seasoned sales leaders in legal tech who know exactly what works and what doesn’t.

If you’re building a growth marketing strategy, you’ll learn how sales and marketing alignment helps sales professionals transform a generic sales pitch into open-ended questions that engage the target audience. By actively listening and building rapport, sales reps can guide buyers through the customer journey, strengthen the sales funnel, and generate leads that actually convert.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:  

• Why cold emails without context = instant delete
• How marketing insights fuel consultative selling and improve sales performance
• Outbound sales strategies that feel relevant, not random
• The role of patience in long legal tech sales cycles
• How LinkedIn outreach builds rapport with decision makers before the first call
• Proven steps to increase conversion rates, grow your customer base, and strengthen the sales pipeline

Podcasts with Emily, Mari, Corey, and Chris:

Persona Fatigue:  Sell to Problems, Not Titles

Research Like a Pro to Close More B2B Sales Deals

Prepping Smarter & Closing Faster (in Legal Tech Sales)

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Too many legal tech vendors are still leading with features, buzzwords, and AI hype. The problem? Law firms don’t buy technology specs—they buy solutions that solve real pain points and impact the bottom line.

In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, host Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski talks with Steven Lerner, senior reporter at Law360 Pulse, about how vendors can stop overselling technology and start connecting with buyers by focusing on outcomes. They cover everything from product strategy and market research to targeted marketing, sales funnel optimization, and customer experience—offering a practical roadmap to strengthen B2B sales and drive lasting revenue growth.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why legal tech sales cycles stall when vendors pitch “solutions in search of a problem”
• How market research and third-party experts uncover law firms’ most pressing needs
• Why AI-washing and “first fever” damage credibility with buyers and investors
• How sales reps can reframe features into business outcomes that influence purchasing decisions
• Why consolidation impacts innovation, customer service, and pricing—and how startups can fill the gaps with stronger customer acquisition strategies

👉 Tune in to discover how to shift from selling tech specs to solution selling that fuels lead generation, acquires new customers, reduces churn, and accelerates revenue growth.

Connect with Steven Lerner.

Episode Resources:

• That AI Tool Your Law Firm Is Using? It's Not Really AI 
• Be Wary Of Legal Tech Cos. Claiming To Be 'First' 
• Legal Tech Companies Raise Pay To Attract BigLaw Attorneys 
• Consolidation Is Slowly Killing Legal Tech Innovation 
• Legal Tech Vendors Often Misdiagnose Law Firm Struggles
• 10 Steps to Align Legal Sales & Marketing
• Hunters vs. Farmers:  Selling Legal Services in a Remote Environment
• How to Use an SAP to Turn the Sales Process into a Buying Process

SEO Keywords Used: B2B Sales, Customer acquisition, Revenue Growth

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AI is no longer a buzzword.  It’s transforming how law firms and legal tech vendors approach marketing, sales, and business growth. But adoption is the real challenge. Without leadership buy-in, data cleanup, and workflow integration, the tools won’t drive impact.

In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski sits down with AI adoption leader Melissa Ballesteros, an AmLaw 100 trainer, certified AI PromptMaster, and Microsoft Copilot expert. Together, they reveal how AI empowers legal tech, law firms, and B2B professionals to build smarter growth marketing strategies, optimize sales performance, unlock marketing intelligence, and sharpen consultative selling.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why AI adoption depends on leadership buy-in and community, not just technology
• How Microsoft Copilot enhances sales workflows, competitive research, and content creation
• Practical examples of AI tools that save time, from email response to podcast production
• Copyright considerations when using AI-generated content
• How to build AI “agents” for small, specific tasks that tie into larger workflows
• Why women in legal tech must increase AI adoption to close the skills and pay gap

SEO Keywords: growth marketing strategy, sales strategy, marketing intelligence

Episode Resources:

🎨 Visual & Video Creation Tools
1.Nano Banana by Google
Purpose: Generate and edit images and videos from text or existing visuals.

2.Enhancor
Purpose: Enhance realism in AI-generated images, especially skin textures.

3.VO3 (Powered by Google Veo 3)
Purpose: Create cinematic-quality videos from text or image prompts with native audio.

4.HeyGen
Purpose: Generate realistic avatars from short video recordings.

5.Opus Clip
Purpose: Automatically convert long-form videos into short vertical clips.
 
🎙️ Audio & Voice Tools
6.ElevenLabs
Purpose: Clone voices and generate professional voiceovers.

🧠 Productivity & Meeting Tools
7.Otter.ai & Fireflies.ai
Purpose: Transcribe and summarize meetings, identify action items.

8.NotebookLM by Google
Purpose: Convert documents (e.g., PDFs) into podcast-style audio summaries.
 
🌐 Web & App Creation Tools
9.Lovable
Purpose: Build websites and apps using text-based instructions.

🧬 Brand Consistency Tool
10.Copy.ai – Brand Voice
Purpose: Maintain a consistent personality across all content.
 
M365 Copilot Chat, Create, Analyst and Researcher. For Create, we talked about creating Brand kits and you can create agents, or bots in Claude for specific tasks.
 
Communities
Rockstar Women in AI and Cybersecurity, Women in Power (Danielle Moon), She Breaks the Law (Priya Lele)

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Without Sales and Marketing alignment, pipelines stall, client acquisition slows, and company valuations suffer.

In this episode of Marketing Phoenix, Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski talks with George Farrall. He is the Managing Partner at Compass Business Advisors. They discuss how marketing can better support sales. From fixing broken handoffs to creating trusted-advisor messaging, they unpack the strategies that actually drive growth.

This episode is a must-listen for leaders in legal tech, law firms, and B2B. It helps strengthen alignment, improve lead management, and enhance CRM processes. You will also learn how to create a growth marketing strategy that catches investors' attention.

What You’ll Learn:  

• Why Sales and Marketing alignment drives revenue and valuation
• How to define and unify MQLs and SQLs for stronger client acquisition
• Where lead management and CRM systems often break down
• How messaging missteps kill trust—and how to avoid them
• The role of B2B demand generation in long-term growth

Chapter Titles:

00:57 – Introducing George Farrall

02:11 – Explaining What Marketing Should Feed Sales

02:51 – Supporting Sales by Prioritizing Quality Leads

04:09 – Defining and Resolving MQL vs. SQL Issues

05:35 – Fixing CRM Setup and Lead Ranking Failures

08:01 – Fixing Pushy and Offensive Sales Email Messaging

10:13 – Becoming a Trusted Advisor, Not a Pushy Caller

11:28 – How Marketing Equips Sales for Endurance

14:52 – Plugging Small Leaks in Sales-Marketing Handoffs

18:12 - Training Sales on Products, Services, and Teams

19:09 - Using Ongoing Marketing Updates to Educate Clients

22:55 – Linking Company Valuation and Growth to Marketing

28:14 – Explaining the Sales-Driven Marketing Model

30:03 – Connecting Awareness and Lead Gen in Unified Funnels

33:34 - Measuring the Effectiveness of Leads

36:30 - Winning VC and PE Confidence Through Marketing-Sales Alignment

39:10 – Bringing Marketing into Client Meetings with Sales

40:44 – Securing Valuation: What Investors Expect From Legal Tech

SEO Keywords:

b2b demand generation, Sales and Marketing alignment, client acquisition, Lead Management and CRM, b2b tech marketing, Growth marketing strategy 

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Too many salespeople chase titles instead of tackling real challenges. 

In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, host Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski is joined by law firm buyers of legal tech, Marimer Muñoz (Kluger Kaplan) and Emily Bartkowicz (Akerman), to explore how consultative selling and solution selling can make or break your discovery calls.

For legal tech, law firm, and B2B professionals, this discussion sheds light on the cost of poor outreach, the importance of objection handling, and how to shorten the sales cycle by listening first and pitching second.

What You’ll Learn:  

• Why selling to titles instead of pain points fails
• How consultative selling builds trust with busy legal teams
• Discovery Call best practices that win meetings (and respect)
• Simple ways to tailor outreach to law firm stakeholders
• The role patience plays in the long B2B sales cycle

SEO Keywords:  consultative selling, solution selling, discovery call, objection handling, sales cycle

Watch the video.

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Too many sales pros walk into key accounts without a strategy and end up wasting opportunities ripe for conversion. 

In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski shares a personal story that forever changed the way she approached B2B sales and client acquisition.

If you’re in legal tech, a law firm, or any B2B field, this episode is packed with practical steps to transform short discovery calls into long-term client relationships using marketing intelligence and a Strategic Account Plan (SAP).

What You’ll Learn:  

• Why walking into a meeting without a plan is a “fool’s errand”
• The 8 essential components of a Strategic Account Plan (SAP)
• How to qualify leads with frameworks like BANT, CHAMP, and MEDDICC
• Ways to align your solutions with your prospect’s biggest challenges
• How SAPs increase sales productivity and improve discovery calls

How to Use an SAP to Turn the Sales Process Into a Buying Process

Watch the video.

SEO Keywords: B2B Sales, Marketing Intelligence, Sales Strategy, Sales Productivity, Discovery Call

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Your sales team is hustling hard, but win rates aren’t moving. The real problem? You might be selling to the wrong Ideal Client Profile (ICP).

 In this episode of The Marketing Phoenix Podcast, Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski sits down with sales leader CJ Webster to unpack the risks of targeting the wrong ICPand how it quietly sabotages your sales forecasting, sales pipeline, and revenue growth.

For legal tech companies, law firms, and B2B organizations, the key to sustainable success isn’t just lead generation:  It’s aligning your product or service, marketing intelligence, and sales reps’ strategies with the right ICP. Melissa and CJ reveal why misalignment across marketing, product, sales, and customer service creates wasted effort, lost deals, and frustrated buyers.

They also share how sales reps can improve objection handling, build trust during the buying process, and use data driven decisions to refine case studies and customer feedback for better targeting. The result? Closed deals that are a good fit for both the buyer and the vendor’s bottom line.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:  

• Why most B2B sales teams close fewer deals than they should
• The six ICP roles that shape purchasing decisions
• How misaligned ICP targeting disrupts the sales pipeline
• The role of storytelling, sales pitches, and objection handling in winning customers
• Why customer experiences and building relationships matter more than cold calls
• How aligning teams leads to smarter, data driven decisions and more closed deals

Chapters:

00:10 Boosting Win Rates With the Right ICP
00:42 Introducing CJ Webster
01:00 Creating and Evolving ICPs
01:20 Defining Six Types of ICPs
02:58 Selling Enterprise Tech Solutions the Right Way
07:10 Recognizing Signs of the Wrong ICP
09:54 Clarifying Value Before Selling to the ICP
13:33 Defining Law Firm ICP by Role, Practice, Size
14:16 Understanding Why Clients Choose Knowledge Over Features
15:15 Involving Marketing, Product, Sales, and Client Success
16:30 Breaking Down ICP Levels: Company, Practice, Stakeholder
22:29 Avoiding Bad Deals With the Right ICP
23:35 Defining RPC’s Real Client Personas
24:26 Shifting Focus From Big Law to SMB Firms
25:52 Leveling the Playing Field for SMB Law Firms With AI
27:14 Explaining AI Simply to Law Firm Buyers
30:34 Understanding Sales Challenges in Tech Integration
32:15 Leveraging AI for Sales Analyses
35:18 Navigating a Crowded AI Marketplace
39:07 Solving Why Sales Can’t Convert MQLs
42:43 Fixing Content That Attracts the Wrong ICPs
47:47 Diagnosing Why Sales and Marketing Fail to Deliver
51:50 Learning Why Sales and Marketing Miss Leads
55:35 CJ’s Final Thoughts on Sales Nobility

SEO Keywords:

Sales forecasting, B2B Sales, Marketing intelligence. LSI: Sales cycle, Objection handling

Connect with CJ Webster: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-webster/

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If your prospects are ghosting you, the problem may not be your pitch — it’s your research. Discover how to find the right decision-makers, prepare smarter, and turn cold calls into warm conversations.

Overview:  

Legal tech sales, law firm business development, and B2B Sales all have one thing in common — the most successful reps never skip research. In this Marketing Phoenix Podcast episode, Melissa “Rogo” Rogozinski talks with Corey Douglas, VP of eDiscovery Services at Repairio Data LLC. Corey shares clear, step-by-step ways top salespeople find the right decision-makers, use marketing support, and turn first meetings into helpful, problem-solving conversations.

Whether you work with law firms, corporate legal teams, or other B2B Lead Generation Companies, you’ll see why Sales and Marketing Alignment helps close more deals and how to avoid the most common outreach mistakes.

What You’ll Learn:  

• How to identify true decision-makers vs. gatekeepers
• Tools and platforms that streamline B2B prospect research
• Ways to use buyer personas for better outreach and messaging
• Turning discovery meetings into consultative conversations
• How marketing and sales alignment accelerates deal cycles
• Why AI is your secret weapon for personalized outreach

Chapters:

00:12 – Closing Deals Like Top Sales Reps
01:00 – Introducing Corey Douglas of Repario Data
03:08 – Identifying the Right Prospect to Target
05:39 – Understanding Why Buying Capability Matters
06:05 – Avoiding Mistakes with Paralegal ICPs
07:38 – Using ICP Roles to Book Meetings
08:38 – Rethinking General Counsel as the Buyer
09:43 – Evaluating If Attorney Is the Right ICP
10:20 – Mapping Gatekeepers, Influencers, and Decision-Makers
12:28 – Preparing for Discovery Meetings with Research
18:21 – Stopping the Feature-First Sales Pitch
22:30 – Asking the Most Powerful Sales Question
23:23 – Supporting Sales Prospecting with Marketing
26:22 – Sharing Content That Moves Sales Forward
28:40 – Showing How Research Helps Close Deals
30:03 – Sharing Sales Tips: Networking, Research, AI

Keywords:

B2B Sales, B2B Lead Generation Companies, Sales and Marketing Alignment

Connect with Corey Douglas, JD.

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