The Meg and Amy Show

Your job architecture is probably fiction. The work keeps changing, and the structure meant to describe it doesn't.

"The nature of the work evolves, the governing structure of the work does not." Master Burnett, Head of Growth at HireBrain, joins Meg and Amy to explain why most organizations still define work through dated job architectures and generic job descriptions, and what a role design built around outcomes looks like instead.

He makes the case for defining roles by what they need to achieve in the next 30 days to 12 months, being honest about a team's real norms so the right people opt in and the wrong ones opt out, and using the signal already captured in every recorded meeting to keep work current. Plus: why the context architect and the exception handler matter more as AI makes organizations "confidently wrong," and whether AI belongs on the team as a coworker.

Featuring Master Burnett, Head of Growth at HireBrain, in conversation with Meg Bear and Amy Wilson.

⏰ TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Cold open: 62 hours a week

00:23 Meet Master Burnett, Head of Growth at HireBrain

02:25 Homegrown AI tools that deliver 25% of the scope

05:18 What AI efficiency is doing to hiring

06:53 Why job descriptions are a terrible way to define work

10:07 The work evolves, its structure doesn't

13:39 Agility, planning and new work structures

16:22 The context architect and the exception handler

17:50 Every HR function has its own definition of the role

19:07 What goes into a role design

22:36 The job description as a marketing artifact

23:45 Attract the right people, repel the wrong ones

26:58 Generic job descriptions get generic AI applications

29:12 Helping your current workforce adapt

34:31 Is AI a coworker?

37:03 Recruiting AI agents and maintaining context

39:00 Leadership Corner: how to give a great keynote

55:33 Closing: who are we repelling?

🔑 KEY INSIGHTS:

- Work architecture can't keep up. "The nature of the work evolves, the governing structure of the work does not." Master says most job architectures are "complete works of fiction," patched so many times that somebody eventually "puts it back on with a zip tie."

- Define roles by outcomes, not qualifications. "Nobody wants to take a role because their qualifications and their responsibilities align. They want to take a role because they can accomplish something." His role design starts with what the role must accomplish over the next 30 days to 12 months.

- Say the quiet part out loud. A role design includes the team's real working norms, so the right candidates opt in and the wrong ones opt out: the same attract-and-repel idea Jason Cohen applies to customers in Hidden Multipliers.

- Generic in, generic out. When job descriptions become "banal, boring granola," AI lets every candidate answer with an equally generic resume. More context in the role, and in what you ask candidates for, is how you separate signal from noise.

- The signal is already there. "Every meeting is recorded, every meeting is captured, it's transcribed." Master argues AI can turn that into a current view of how work is changing and where each person's career could go, work managers no longer have the bandwidth to do.

- AI needs people who push back. AI "has a tendency to make organizations confidently wrong," which is why he sees the context architect and the exception handler as essential. "Creating the model for context is the easy part. Maintaining context, that is the beast."

📚 RESOURCES:

Master Burnett on applying AI's standard to humans: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/standard-were-setting-ai-should-apply-humans-too-master-burnett-71abc/

"There will only be four jobs" by Yoni Rechtman: https://99d.substack.com/p/there-will-only-be-four-jobs

Our episode with Jason Cohen on Hidden Multipliers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRVm6cTtwdc

Our episode with Stacey Harris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34z92_C9w90

🔗 CONNECT:

Master Burnett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masterburnett/

Website: https://www.themegandamyshow.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-show

https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/

#AILeadership #FutureOfWork #ExecutiveLeadership #RoleDesign #WorkDesign #JobArchitecture #TalentAcquisition #MegAndAmyShow

Sarah White, founder of Lemon, has spent about twenty-five years in HR tech as a practitioner, an analyst and a strategist. She doesn't believe there's such a thing as an AI company, only companies that use AI to solve a real problem.

She explains why what looks like buyers pulling back is really right-sizing after the 2021 to 2023 buying spree, why there were more investors at HR Tech this year than she's ever seen, and how her dinners with strangers have turned into partnerships, signed contracts and new jobs.

Recorded live at HR Tech 2026 in Las Vegas. This is one of four conversations from the show, and the full episode with all four is here: https://youtu.be/spO24X6cueE

GUEST:

Sarah White, Lemon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahwhitestrategy/

RESOURCES:

Lemon: https://startwithlemon.com/

CONNECT:

Website: https://www.themegandamyshow.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-show

https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/

Steve Goldberg has been coming to HR Tech for about twenty years, as an analyst, an advisor and, in his words, a social butterfly. He thinks "native AI" won't mean much until someone builds a maturity model for it, and he'd rather talk about real use cases anyway.

We get into org agility, and why HR systems need to account for the moments that matter to the organization as well as to the employee. Steve also shares a warning we haven't stopped thinking about: like people, AI is into self-preservation, and it won't tell you when it doesn't have enough data to back up its answer.

Recorded live at HR Tech 2026 in Las Vegas. This is one of four conversations from the show, and the full episode with all four is here: https://youtu.be/spO24X6cueE

GUEST:

Steve Goldberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sbgoldberg/

RESOURCES:

Rahul Lakhanpal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahul-lakhanpal-93114412/

CONNECT:

Website: https://www.themegandamyshow.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-show

https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/

Bonnie Tinder has been to 15 HR Tech conferences, and her company, Raven Intelligence, collects peer reviews of HR and ERP implementations, so she sees what actually happens after the contract is signed. Her data has two surprises in it.The first is that customers love their implementation partner more than their software, and that gap has shown up every year since Raven started measuring it in 2018. The second is that AI hasn't made implementations cheaper or faster yet. Some of them now cost more and take longer than they used to.We also talk about what Bonnie would invent if she could build the future, which involves technology you notice less and fewer meetings, and her strategy for surviving the expo floor: touch grass.Recorded live at HR Tech 2026 in Las Vegas. This is one of four conversations from the show, and the full episode with all four is here: https://youtu.be/spO24X6cueEGUEST:Bonnie Tinder, Raven Intelligence: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bonnietinder/CONNECT:Website: https://www.themegandamyshow.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-showhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/

Lance Haun has walked the HR Tech expo floor since 2009, and this year he wrote that it was more overwhelming than ever because every vendor was saying the same thing about AI. His test is simple: put your thumb over the logo and see if you can still tell who's who.

Every booth on the HR Tech expo floor this year was saying the same thing about AI, and the buyers walking those aisles wanted something a lot more practical. So we grabbed four of our favorite people, who live in Las Vegas, to find out what's actually changing.

Lance Haun has a simple test for telling vendors apart: cover the logo. Sarah White doesn't think there's such a thing as an AI company. Steve Goldberg explains why AI won't tell you when it doesn't have enough data to back up its answer. And Bonnie Tinder's implementation data shows that AI hasn't made projects cheaper or faster yet, and that customers love their implementation partner more than the software.

We also get into org agility, how a dinner with strangers can turn into a job, what each guest would build if they could invent the future, and how to survive the sensory overload of the expo floor.

Each of these conversations is also up on its own as a mini-episode on our YouTube channel.

Thank you to WRKdefined, William Tincup and Ryan Leary, for the podcast studio at HR Tech, and to HR Examiner for helping make live podcasting happen at the show.

GUESTS:

Bonnie Tinder, Raven Intelligence: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bonnietinder/

Lance Haun: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lancehaun/

Steve Goldberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sbgoldberg/

Sarah White, Lemon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahwhitestrategy/

CHAPTERS:

0:00 Cold open

0:49 Welcome from HR Tech

2:49 Everyone is saying the same thing

8:21 Who the booths are talking to

12:16 What buyers are getting

19:15 Org agility

24:04 The human part

29:54 Meals with strangers

32:45 If you were to invent the future

38:34 Managing sensory overload

RESOURCES:

WRKdefined: https://wrkdefined.com/

HR Examiner: https://www.hrexaminer.com/

Lemon: https://startwithlemon.com/

WorkTech (George LaRocque): https://1worktech.com/

Rahul Lakhanpal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahul-lakhanpal-93114412/

CONNECT:

Website: https://www.themegandamyshow.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-show

https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/

How do you prepare and deliver a great keynote? Meg Bear and Amy Wilson share their practical playbook for owning the stage — from audience prep to what to wear to what to do in the preceding 20 minutes.

Why hasn't AI showed up in the P&L yet?

Heidrick & Struggles CEO Tom Monahan joins Meg and Amy. His one question that reveals your real capability gap: If you just told your team to go do that, what wouldn't happen? Tom unpacks why the CEO job is now a two-way ambassador role, and why moving AI from the CEO story to the CFO numbers is the real test.

He also makes the case for managers in an age of flat org charts, and why AI should mean better work sooner — especially for junior talent.

Featuring Tom Monahan, CEO of Heidrick & Struggles, in conversation with Meg Bear and Amy Wilson.

TIMESTAMPS

00:15 - Meet Tom Monahan, CEO of Heidrick & Struggles

01:19 - Lessons from a family carnival business

02:42 - Most businesses are all about the people

04:20 - Why the CEO job is getting more complex

05:49 - The CEO as two-way ambassador

12:18 - The one question that reveals capability gaps

17:51 - Move AI from the CEO script to the CFO numbers

19:02 - Using AI for immersive candidate scenarios

25:39 - Why demanagerizing has not worked

31:06 - When build costs go to zero, advisory value rises

35:52 - Better work sooner for junior talent

39:19 - 4 qualities of leaders who win now

Subscribe to The Meg and Amy Show for bold takes on AI leadership, CEO leadership, and the future of work.

📚 RESOURCES:

Show Up to Win by Jeff Sanders and Kelly O. Kay (Heidrick & Struggles): https://www.heidrick.com/en/pages/show-up-to-win-book

"Finding the Human Core of Competitive Advantage in the AI Era: Avoiding the Pygmalion Trap" by Tom Monahan and Les Csorba: https://www.heidrick.com/en/insights/frontier-tech/finding-the-human-core-in-ai-era

Route to the Top 2025 (Heidrick & Struggles research): https://www.heidrick.com/en/insights/chief-executive-officer/route-to-the-top-2025-the-ascent-redefined

"From Hierarchy to Intelligence" by Jack Dorsey and Roelof Botha (Block): https://block.xyz/inside/from-hierarchy-to-intelligence

Level 5 Leadership (Jim Collins): https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/level-five-leadership.html

Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generally_Accepted_Accounting_Principles_(United_States)

Survivorship bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

"The Future Is Interdisciplinary" by Meg Bear: https://www.megbear.com/post/the-future-is-interdisciplinary

Heidrick & Struggles: https://www.heidrick.com/

🔗 CONNECT:

Tom Monahan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tlmonahan/

Jeff Sanders: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsanders2/

Kelly O. Kay: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kokay/

Tobi Lütke: https://x.com/tobi

Website: https://www.themegandamyshow.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megandamyshow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-meg-amy-show

https://www.linkedin.com/in/megbear/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-wilson-insight/

#AILeadership #FutureOfWork #ExecutiveLeadership #MegAndAmyShow #EnterpriseAI #AIStrategy

What Every Executive Woman Should Know About Perimenopause with Dr. Jessica Kassis

OB-GYN Dr. Jessica Kassis missed her own perimenopause for a year - until her primary care doctor caught it. She joins Meg and Amy to explain why high-performing women miss the signs at work, how to talk to your doctor, and what actually helps with brain fog, rage, sleep, and burnout.

We cover #perimenopauseatwork ,  #brainfogperimenopause , hormone stabilization vs replacement, birth control in early perimenopause, advocating for care, leaving a hospital system to build Radiant Women's Health at 46, plus Leadership Corner on leading with candor when a strong performer slips.

Featuring Dr. Jessica Kassis, OB-GYN and co-founder of Radiant Women's Health, with hosts Meg Bear and Amy Wilson.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro to Dr. Jessica Kassis

02:25 Her personal perimenopause story as a GYN

05:58 Why doctors avoid menopause care - RVUs and 20-minute visits

07:52 I don't feel like myself - the key symptom

10:29 Brain fog, estrogen receptors and sleep 1

3:34 Early vs later perimenopause explained

16:25 Stabilizing vs adding - birth control pill option

20:09 Rage, misophonia and hormones

26:12 Finding care beyond concierge - telehealth options

28:28 How to advocate with your doctor

31:33 Leaving the system - burnout and loss of empathy

37:27 Energy alignment and North Star

39:27 Building Radiant Women's Health and partnership

44:01 Growth, marketing and community

47:21 Leadership Corner - when a high performer slips

Subscribe to The Meg and Amy Show for weekly conversations on AI, leadership and the future of work. Full episode out Friday.

#AILeadership #FutureOfWork #ExecutiveLeadership #MegAndAmyShow #WomenInLeadership #LeadershipWellness

HubSpot CEO Yamini Rangan shared a layoff memo for 660 employees.

- Why this memo stood out from most layoff announcements

- What Yamini got right on principles, focus, and severance

- What was missed on market pressure, cost structure, and investing better

Timestamps:

00:00 Why this HubSpot memo stood out