The Messy Middle

Architect and futurist Ted Givens has spent his career designing at the edge of what’s possible, from Hong Kong towers to kinetic, climate-resilient homes built to move with the weather.In this episode of The Messy Middle, Ted shares how he left the safety of big firms, helped build 10 DESIGN, launched his experimental studio BIRD, and why he keeps chasing ideas that look risky on paper but matter in the real world.If you care about architecture, climate, design, risk, and creative careers, this one’s for you.In this conversation with Ted Givens:- How a kid obsessed with drawing and storms became a global architect- Leaving the comfort of legacy firms to co-found 10 DESIGN- The reality of competitions, burnout, and big-vision projects- The story behind Tornado House and kinetic disaster-proof design- Designing ultra-poor and disaster housing and what he got wrong- Why he created BIRD Studio while still leading at 10 DESIGN- How he teaches young architects to design for risk, narrative, and climate- What success didn’t fix and what still keeps him up at nightThis isn’t a highlight reel. It’s the part of the story most people skip: the doubts, dead ends, and decisions that shape the work we eventually see.🎧 Listen / Watch The Messy MiddleNew episodes drop the first Monday of every month.Subscribe: youtube.com/@zakiroseFollow the show on IG: @therealmessymiddle#TheMessyMiddle #TedGivens #Architecture #DesignPodcast #ClimateDesign #KineticArchitecture #CreativeProcess

Eddie Francis built his career behind the mic, from local radio to Apple Music, but success came with its own shadows.
In this episode, Eddie and Wael Abou-Zaki talk about the highs that look perfect from the outside and the lows that force you to start over.

They unpack the moments that tested everything: walking away from comfort, facing addiction, finding clarity in recovery, and learning that connection only happens when you show up as your truest self.

This conversation isn’t about headlines or hype, it’s about the process that shapes the person behind the work. Because the messy middle isn’t where we lose ourselves; it’s where we find who we’re becoming.

🎬 Watch full version and all cut downs on Youtube @ZakiRose
🎧 Follow The Messy Middle for new episodes on the first Monday of every month.

When we first launched this series as PERSPECTIVE, our goal was simple: create space for meaningful conversations about the process behind success; the journey > outcome philosophy.

Now, in the most fitting twist possible, the series has evolved into The Messy Middle.
Pun intended.
We’re living in the creative uncertainty we talk about, pivoting, experimenting, and building in public. It’s imperfect, but it’s honest.

In this episode, Julie Pilat, whose career has spanned radio, Beats by Dre, Apple Music, and now the creative-tech frontier at FYI with will.i.am shares what it really takes to evolve without losing your integrity. Julie’s story is one of reinvention, resilience, and relentless curiosity.

She talks with Wael Abou-Zaki about the transition from music and media to tech, how to navigate moments of doubt, and why the truth always has to come first.

🎬 Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/9WPEiwRP2jI
🎧 Listen on Spotify & all major platforms

The Messy Middle is where the journey matters most.

We launched this series as PERSPECTIVE, a cinematic interview series built to explore the process, pivots, and purpose behind creativity and growth.

But as the journey unfolded, something unexpected happened: the series itself stepped into its own messy middle. So we’re embracing it. From here forward, PERSPECTIVE becomes The Messy Middle because we’re living in the very thing we’re talking about: the uncertainty, iteration, and creativity that come with building something in real time.

In this premiere episode, Zach Katz—former BMG President and now a leading entrepreneur and manager to some of today’s biggest streamers and creators. He sat down with Wael Abou-Zaki to unpack reinvention, curiosity, and the evolution of creative leadership.

Zach shares what he’s learned from navigating the music industry’s transformation, the shift from traditional entertainment to digital creators, and how true success comes from constantly creating value for others.

🎧 Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/bsitfb1mGIs
🎙 Now streaming on Spotify & Youtube

The Messy Middle is where the journey matters most.