THE MILO CHAO SHOW

George Lois.

The story of George Lois is the story of a Greek American rabble-rousing pugilist from the rough streets of The Bronx who has spent most of his life fighting against social injustice and fighting tooth and nail for his art.  

The first time I heard of George Lois was while watching Art & Copy, a 2009 documentary about the advertising industry in the US. My memory was of an angry bald man who had done some legendary work in his time.

George was 88 years old when I sat down with him. He had on a black hoodie, less hacker more wizard who could probably conjure up some pretty serious black magic if you fucked with him. Be warned, George likes to curse!

George was inducted into The Art Directors Hall of Fame, The Advertising Hall of Fame, Copywriters Hall of Fame, The One Club Creative Hall of Fame, and The American Advertising Federation Hall of Fame. That's a lot of Halls.

He's published 11 books including best sellers, "Damn Good Advice", "George Lois on His Creation of the Big Idea", and "What's the Big Idea? How to Win with Outrageous Idea" - to name a few.

I could only imagine what he was like as a young 27-year-old working alongside the great Bill Bernbach at DDB, the first creative agency in the world - as George put it. He was fearless, brash, and incredibly talented.

George is best known for the covers he created for Esquire magazine in the 1960s, arguably the best and most provocative the publisher has ever had. Many of those covers are now kept at the MOMA.

He is also known for his culture-creating advertising work. He coined the phrase, "I want my MTV" which all you Gen-Xers will appreciate. He is also famous for launching Tommy Hilfiger's brand. The list is very long.

The original interview was more than two hours long, but I edited it down to less than one. It took far too long to complete. I would like to blame the pandemic, but instead I accuse resistance.

I sat down with George at his East Village home in February 2020 for this interview, arranged by his son Luke, an accomplished photographer, who joins us during the interview.

NILS ANDERSSON

I am joined today in Shanghai by Nils Andersson.

The first thing you notice about Nils is how tall he is. His Dad was a Viking from Sweden. His Mom was from Durham in the North of England.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that Nils is the Phil Jackson or Alex Ferguson of the advertising industry here in Asia.

He won't tell you outright, perhaps that's the reserved Swede in him, but he loves competition and he loves to win.

His two loves in life have always been art and sport. Oh, art is art, and sport is sport, and never the twain shall meet.

Well, the twain did meet and this is what we got.

He's won it all.

For the past two years, he was Asia Pacific Creative of the Year. He also gave TBWA their highest ever regional ranking before he made his exit.

He was ranked creative of the year for Greater China three years in a row. 

The agencies he's worked at here in China - Ogilvy, Y&R, and TBWA - have all been ranked agency of the year under his leadership.

He and his teams have done stunning and award-winning work for the likes of Motorola, the Gap, and Penguin. We discuss these brands and more in our interview.

So, please enjoy. If you have any questions or comments don't hesitate to leave them. 

As always, if you care please share.

NORMAN TAN

How does the eighth child in a family of thirteen children emerge as one of the most awarded advertising creatives in Asia and still manage a laid back smile?

Please listen in on my conversation with Norman Tan, formerly Chairman and Chief Creative Officer of North Asia at JWT and now head honcho at "onbrand" a new type of agency that offers top shelf creative at reassuringly expensive rates.

To find out what it actually takes to make great work, we look back at two of his most famous campaigns, "Key Auntie" for Alipay and "Human Traffic Signs" for Buick.

Show you care, subscribe and share.

We're in a small sound booth at the Santa Monica headquarters of Headspace, the health company that guides people to mindfulness through meditation.

I'm here with Caroline Pay, currently Chief Creative Officer at Headspace. Caroline was Co-Chief Creative Officer at Grey London, considered one of the most creative agencies in what is arguably one of the most competitively creative cities in the world.

She has also led creative teams at BBH and Mother amongst others. I mention a few pieces of work that Caroline has done in the intro, from the highly acclaimed work for Levi's, "Dangerous Liaison" to a short film she wrote with Chris Palmer, "The Boy with Chocolate Fingers."  You can find most of her work on Vimeo here: https://bit.ly/2My3Q4j

So, please enjoy. If you have any questions or comments don't hesitate to leave them. As always, if you care please share.

LEE CLOW

In this episode, I speak with advertising legend, Lee Clow who, for 25 years, partnered with Steve Jobs on some of the most brilliant pieces of advertising the world has ever seen: 1984, The Crazy One's, and Mac vs PC (to name a few).

I go into some detail about his career at the beginning of the interview so I won't list everything here. Suffice to say, he is in every hall of fame you can think of and then some.

We sat in his home studio in Palos Verdes, California. His studio felt like a museum I could probably spend a lifetime in.

Lee has three dogs, one of which had much to say throughout the interview. Lee's wife, Eileen, of 50 years drops in for a quick hello. It was an honor to meet the woman Lee attributes most of his success to.

It was not an easy interview for me, given that Lee has been interviewed four million times before and, well, it is Lee Clow.

What I think you will find interesting in this interview is his memories of working with Steve Jobs and the "real story" behind the Think Different campaign.

We also talk about the origin of the "Impossible is Nothing" line, which actually has two stories. We didn't quite get to which one was the true one, but both are worth listening to.

Lee also talks about the role of surfing in his work and creativity. Surfing is the mother of all extreme sports and the nature of the sport compels people to try to outdo each other. Sounds like how advertising should be.

We also delve into his childhood and talk about the role his adoptive mother and first grade teacher played in his development as an graphic communicator. Without them, he probably would have been a plumber (so he says).

While his mother encouraged his interest in art, it was his father who taught him the value of hard work and responsibility. Responsibility and resilience helped Lee reach the very top and stay there for fifty odd years.

I hope you enjoy this episode. Please subscribe and share if you feel compelled to do so. Or not.

SCOTT ROSS

Hi. And welcome to the Cao & Chao Show. A podcast where we talk to remarkable creators about how they got here.

Today, I am in Santa Barbara with Scott Ross, best known as the founder of Digital Domain, the company that created the visual effects for such Oscar winning movies as Titanic, What Dreams May Come, and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button – amongst many others. Did I mention Lord of the Rings, iRobot, and Fight Club? His partner in crime, at the time, was none other than director James Cameron.

Before starting Digital Domain, he was the CEO of George Lucas' Industrial, Light and Magic which was responsible for the effects of Academy Award winning films Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Terminator 2 and the Abyss.

The question is how does a poor white boy from the South Bronx end up at the center of a digital revolution when all he really wanted was to play the sax?

Please join me as we retrace Scott's incredible journey from the South Bronx to Santa Barbara to learn the answer to this question and more.

SCOTT ROSS

Hi. And welcome to the Cao & Chao Show. A podcast where we talk to remarkable creators about how they got here.

Today, I am in Santa Barbara with Scott Ross, best known as the founder of Digital Domain, the company that created the visual effects for such Oscar winning movies as Titanic, What Dreams May Come, and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button – amongst many others. Did I mention Lord of the Rings, iRobot, and Fight Club? His partner in crime, at the time, was none other than director James Cameron.

Before starting Digital Domain, he was the CEO of George Lucas' Industrial, Light and Magic which was responsible for the effects of Academy Award winning films Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Terminator 2 and the Abyss.

The question is how does a poor white boy from the South Bronx end up at the center of a digital revolution when all he really wanted was to play the sax?

Please join me as we retrace Scott's incredible journey from the South Bronx to Santa Barbara to learn the answer to this question and more.

Bill GRUNDFEST

Hi. And welcome to the Cao & Chao Show. A podcast where we talk to remarkable creators about how they got here.

Today I am in Beverly Hills with Bill Grundfest, comedian, writer, producer, and director.

Bill is the co-founder of the famed Comedy Cellar in Greenwich Village, New York, which has headlined such legends as  Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and the late Robin Williams.

He is also credited with launching the careers of superstars of comedy Bill Maher AND Jon Stewart.

Bill is also well known for his hit TV show, "Mad About You" which won four golden globe awards and 12 primetime Emmy awards. Let's not forget CBS' "That's Life", HBO's "Mind of a Married Man", Showtimes, "Pryor Offenses", and Comedy Central's, "Richard Pryor Special". I think that's it. There might be more. Check out his Wikipedia page for more details.

I thought the interview went very well, but Bill might disagree. After all, he walked out on me three times. I guess I asked some pretty offensive questions. I didn't think so, but I will let you decide.

He walked out on me the first time when I brought up the topic of failure, which he had his share of early on in his career. He was kind enough to return and school me on the value of failure.

We also talked about his experience in China and how he was able to navigate the cultural in the same way that he has for decades in New York and Hollywood, by being nice. So seemingly simple yet so immensely difficult.

We also get into a topic that he was surprised to find himself talking about, the relationship between being Jewish and being creative. The insights he delivers are worth their weight in gold.

Anyway, I certainly learned a great deal from Bill and laughed more than I generally do. I hope you do too.

Bill GRUNDFEST

Hi. And welcome to the Cao & Chao Show. A podcast where we talk to remarkable creators about how they got here.

Today I am in Beverly Hills with Bill Grundfest, comedian, writer, producer, and director.

Bill is the co-founder of the famed Comedy Cellar in Greenwich Village, New York, which has headlined such legends as  Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and the late Robin Williams.

He is also credited with launching the careers of superstars of comedy Bill Maher AND Jon Stewart.

Bill is also well known for his hit TV show, "Mad About You" which won four golden globe awards and 12 primetime Emmy awards. Let's not forget CBS' "That's Life", HBO's "Mind of a Married Man", Showtimes, "Pryor Offenses", and Comedy Central's, "Richard Pryor Special". I think that's it. There might be more. Check out his Wikipedia page for more details.

I thought the interview went very well, but Bill might disagree. After all, he walked out on me three times. I guess I asked some pretty offensive questions. I didn't think so, but I will let you decide.

He walked out on me the first time when I brought up the topic of failure, which he had his share of early on in his career. He was kind enough to return and school me on the value of failure.

We also talked about his experience in China and how he was able to navigate the cultural in the same way that he has for decades in New York and Hollywood, by being nice. So seemingly simple yet so immensely difficult.

We also get into a topic that he was surprised to find himself talking about, the relationship between being Jewish and being creative. The insights he delivers are worth their weight in gold.

Anyway, I certainly learned a great deal from Bill and laughed more than I generally do. I hope you do too.

BRYCE WHITWAM

Hi. And welcome to the Cao & Chao Show. A podcast where we talk to remarkable creators about how they got here.

Today, I talk with Bryce Whitwam, newly minted Chief Executive Officer at MRM McCann, formerly Chief Executive Officer of Wunderman China.

Both Wunderman and MRM are direct marketing agencies. Wunderman is believed to be the creator of modern-day direct marketing. I am sure others will dispute that characterization. Or not.

For those familiar with the US market, Wunderman is credited with coming up with the 1800 toll free number and the magazine subscription card. Small stuff, big impact.

Back to Bryce.

In just six years, Bryce built up Wunderman from a 20 person agency to a 300 person powerhouse. How was he able to do this? We explore that and more in this unique segment.

We change it up a little bit this week. Rather than one – some might say long - continuous podcast, we cut up the interview into five, let's call them slices.

In slice one Bryce takes us back to his days as a high school disc jockey in the States, and stresses the importance of acquiring time-honored skills you can fall back on if all else goes to hell.

In slice two Bryce adopts the strategy of fight where you think you can win after realizing competition in the States was too intense and if he wanted to follow his passion he would need to find more fertile ground. Asia called.

In slice three, Bryce leaves for Thailand, a place that pushed him out of his comfort zone and teaches him what it means to be a marketer.

In the fourth and second to last slice, we chat about leadership and influence in China. For the South Dakotan native, leading is all about showing that you can do the work, not just get people to do it for you. To thrive, you need to learn the language. The days of the foreigner discount are over.

In the final session Bryce talks about the changing market in China. Winning will rely more on marketing prowess than distribution. While entering the market is easier than it has ever been winning will be increasingly more difficult. He also sees a correction in the near future and a world where China will become a global leader in services, not just products.

So please come and enjoy.

And remember,

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