The Modern Recruiter

Hey everyone,

This week on The Modern Recruiter, I had a great conversation with Benjamin Mena, host of The Elite Recruiter Podcast and Managing Partner at Select Source Solutions. Benjamin then interviewed me on his own podcast - give it a listen here. It was fun to do a crossover episode - and I know many of you are already big fans of Benjamin's!

Benjamin shared a lot on his personal story from getting almost fired as a young, hungry recruiter, to launching his successful practice and scale his personal brand:

* The power of consistent content creation Benjamin's journey with The Elite Recruiter Podcast shows how regular, valuable content can build strong relationships and generate business. He emphasized the importance of sharing others' stories and industry insights rather than always focusing on yourself.

* Specializing in government contracting recruitment The virtues of niching are something I hear again and again on this podcast (most recently on episodes #73 and #74 with Diane and Clark). By focusing on this niche, Benjamin built a deep expertise that set him apart. He explained how understanding the unique challenges of government contracts has been crucial to his success.

* Overcoming early career struggles Benjamin started at Aerotek and faced significant challenges in his first few months. He turned things around by learning from top performers, a strategy that helped him become a top biller within a year.

* Evolving business models in recruitment We discussed how Select Source Solutions shifted from primarily direct placements to offering more consulting services, allowing them to better serve government contracting clients and diversify revenue streams.

* Advice for recruiters at different career stages Benjamin offered targeted advice:

* For newcomers: You can't help everyone. Just focus on helping clients find the best person.

* For experienced recruiters: Go back to basics, hit your metrics, but also find ways to stand out in a crowded market.

* For all recruiters: Don't neglect sales training, even if you prefer recruiting.

This episode is packed with practical advice for recruiters at all stages, especially those interested in government contracting or looking to leverage content creation for business growth.

What do you think about Benjamin's approach to content creation and specialization? Have you tried similar strategies in your own recruiting business?

I'd love to hear your thoughts - just hit reply and let's chat!

Until next time, Robin

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everyone,

This week on The Modern Recruiter, I had an amazing in-person conversation with Chris Bakke about his journey building and selling two successful recruiting companies - including one that was acquired by Elon Musk's Twitter/X!

Chris shared some of his insights on:

* Building a recruiting marketplace from scratch

Chris's company Laskie grew to $4.5 million in revenue in just 2.5 years by focusing on remote hiring during the pandemic boom. He shared their strategies for sourcing candidates and clients, including initially spending big on LinkedIn job slots and remote job boards.

* Content marketing as a growth strategy

Chris revealed how "shitposting” and memes on Twitter helped double Laskie's revenue. His approach of posting humorous, non-recruiting content actually is very counter-intuitive to me, as I often advocate for high-value, educative content. However, this worked wonders to attract his target audience of startup founders and tech leaders - to the extent that he credits the strategy with DOUBLING his revenue.

* The playbook for selling a recruiting company

Chris walked me through how he positioned Laskie for acquisition, including keeping potential acquirers updated via a monthly newsletter (smart - never heard of that one but it makes so much sense). He also explained how a single tweet about Twitter's recruiting potential caught Elon Musk's attention and led to the acquisition.

* Pricing and business model evolution

We discussed Laskie's shift from contingency to recurring revenue, and the challenges of innovating on pricing in a crowded market. Of course this reminded me of The Modern Recruiter #70: A Pricing & Value Masterclass for Recruiters, with Jon Brooks, Founder @ The Value Advantage

* Market analysis of the recruiting industry

Chris broke down the go-to-market strategies of major players like LinkedIn, Indeed, and ZipRecruiter, offering valuable insights for founders trying to carve out their niche - and how he did it himself. I liked his highly analytical and strategic approach.

This episode is packed with great advice for founders building in the recruiting space, people looking to build a personal brand online in order to drive more revenue, as well as 2 different fascinating insider stories about an M&A process.

What do you think about Chris's social media strategies? Have you tried any similar approaches in your own recruiting activity?

I'd love to hear your thoughts - just hit reply and let's chat!

By the way: you're now 1,000 people subscribed to this newsletter! Thanks so much for the support, keep sending good vibes and sharing your favorite episodes with your team and your friends!

Robin

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everybody!

This week on The Modern Recruiter, I had a fantastic chat with Steve Bartel, founder of Gem, about a topic close to my heart: recruiting strategies for early-stage startups. Steve and I go a long way: We both started companies in the Recruiting space around the same time, we both have a very strong Recruiting CRM (though we’re going after different audiences) and we both share the belief that recruiting should be closer to selling.

What makes this episode special and so valuable is the preparation that went into it: literally years. We based our conversation on Steve's excellent guide, Startup Hiring 101, that he personally crafted and refined over time, based on his own experiences as well as the hundreds of companies they worked with at Gem.

This episode is a bit different from the usual: it's tailored more for startup founders. However, I believe there's also a lot in it for first recruiters at startups, recruiters broadly involved in the startup ecosystem, and agency recruiters working with early-stage companies.

We discussed the unique challenges of building a founding team head-on. How do you balance speed, quality, and process when you're just starting out? What strategies can you use when you have no employer brand to lean on? How do you compete with tech giants for top talent? How do you build a diverse team from the ground up?

If you're working with early-stage founders, do them a favor and forward them this episode!

Here are some key takeaways:

* Recruiting = sales

Steven emphasized the importance of viewing recruiting as a sales process. He shared, "Recruiting is very similar to sales. And I think that analogy is really helpful and it can be very clarifying because a lot of founders, while they haven't hired for a startup before, many of them have done sales." This mindset shift can help you approach hiring more strategically.

* Focus on your network first

For early-stage startups, leveraging your personal network is crucial. Steven explained, "Where small startups need to focus first and foremost is their network. And a lot of that what that's going to come down to is like the founders actually rolling up their sleeves and sourcing first degree connections." This approach can lead to higher conversion rates and better cultural fits.

* Always be closing (and selling)

Steven shared a great tip about closing candidates: "My number one recommendation for like the interview process is actually to always be closing and always be selling, and treat every single conversation with a candidate as an opportunity to get them more excited about your job and about your company." This constant engagement can make a huge difference in your success rate. On that topic, you can also listen to The Modern Recruiter #63: A masterclass to improve your candidates closing rates

* Understand candidate motivations

One of the biggest mistakes startups make is moving to offer too quickly. Steven uses one of the most valuable questions ever in recruiting: "Ask them, what would it take to get you to an eight or what would it take to get you to a nine or if they're even if they're a nine, ask them, what would it take to get you at a 10 out of 10?" This helps you address any concerns before shifting the conversation to compensation.

* Build a diverse founding team

We touched on the importance of diversity in your initial team. "Making sure that your initial team is diverse is going to make it much easier to then hire female engineers and a lot of more diversity. And if you don't do this, it'll get harder."

There's so much more packed into this episode, including tips on sourcing strategies, common mistakes to avoid, and how to compete with larger companies for talent.

So, what do you think? If you're a founder, do you already apply these strategies? Have you faced similar challenges? And if you're a recruiter, was it interesting for you to hear an episode aimed at a slightly different audience? I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Just hit reply and let's chat!

For those interested in learning more:

* Check out Gem at https://gem.com/

* Learn about HireSweet at https://www.hiresweet.com/

* Follow Steven on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-bartel/

* Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rbchoy/

Wishing you successful hiring,

Robin

P.S. Once more - if you found this helpful, don't forget to share it with your founder friends and clients. Valuable content for them!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hello everyone,

In this episode of The Modern Recruiter, I had a great conversation with Jared Watts, a former professional soccer player turned recruiter. I’m always a big fan of mixing different fields, so I was excited to learn how the skills and mindset from professional sport (in this case soccer or - as we like to call it in France - football) can be useful in recruiting.

Here are some of the key takeaways from our discussion:

1/ How to apply an athletic mindset to recruiting

Jared emphasized the importance of the competitive nature and resilience developed as a professional athlete. He shared how these traits have translated into his recruiting career. As he put it, “You're never as good or as bad as you think you are,” emphasizing continuous improvement and adaptability.

Here’s what he recommends:

* Competitive Spirit: Just like in sports, recruiting is competitive. Jared’s story is a testament to the importance of a competitive spirit in achieving success.

* Resilience: Failure is part of the journey. Jared emphasizes resilience and learning from every setback.

* Data-Driven Decisions: Using data to back up your claims can make a significant difference, whether negotiating your contract or presenting a candidate to a client.

2/ The importance of numbers and data

Just as in sports, where every move is analyzed and optimized, Jared applies a data-driven approach to recruiting. During his soccer career, he negotiated his contract using performance metrics. Today, he tells candidates' stories backed with data.

He recommends to use data to tell a compelling story about the candidate’s potential impact.

3/ Balancing Multiple Roles

Jared’s journey is impressive not only because of his transition but also because of his ability to juggle multiple roles. He’s currently the only internal recruiter at his company, where he’s hired 65 people in the past 18 months. Simultaneously, he’s building his own side agency, successfully placing executives for other companies and bringing in close to $400,000 - AS A SIDE GIG (!).

Here’s how he does it:

* He builds systems. Use tools like LinkedIn, Sales Navigator, and Google Sheets to stay organized and efficient.

* He manages his time (and works hard): He blocks out specific times for different tasks, including early mornings and late nights if needed.

As Jared says, “The way you do anything is the way you're going to do everything. So, I've taken that mindset and made sure that I've translated that into the recruiting side.”

Listen to the full episode to dive deeper and learn how to apply a competitive, data-driven mindset to your recruiting efforts!

By the way! I love when people reply to these emails, and I read and reply to all of your messages. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode: How do you apply skills from other areas of your life to recruiting? What tools do you use to stay organized? Come on, just hit reply and let’s chat!

Have a great week!

Robin

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hello everyone,

In this episode of The Modern Recruiter, I had a fantastic conversation with Clark Willcox, founder of The Digital Recruiter and host of the podcast with the same name. We dived into how to leverage LinkedIn effectively as a recruiter, offering insights valuable for both corporate and agency recruiters. Just after, he interviewed me as a guest on his podcast on the topic of Turning your LinkedIn brand into a sales machine, I would recommend giving it a listen too!

Here are some of the key takeaways from our discussion:

1/ How to optimize Your LinkedIn profile as a landing page (with lots of great tips)

Clark emphasized the importance of making your LinkedIn profile a compelling landing page and shared a story about a client who revamped his LinkedIn profile and signed a new lead within only a week.

Here’s what he recommends:

* Headline and About Section: Clearly state your value proposition and recent accomplishments. For example, “I build sales teams for industrial automation companies. Recently placed a Chief Marketing Officer at HireSweet”

* Profile Picture and Banner: Use a professional and clear profile picture. Avoid AI-generated images.

* Featured Section: Highlight your best posts, articles, or a call-to-action like booking a consultation. This section is crucial for showcasing your expertise.

* + a few more snippets (listen to the conversation!)

2/ The best outreach campaigns

Clark recommends to level up LinkedIn outreach by using a LinkedIn automation tool like Dripify + Sales Navigator (or Recruiter Lite/Recruiter). Here’s the simplified approach Clark recommends:

* No Invitation Note for Clients: Skip the note to increase acceptance rates. Once connected, engage with open-ended questions like, “How are your hiring efforts going in this challenging market?”. Play the long game, don't try to close them right away, because in Clark's words “Most of your outreach is sales is not going to work. Have that internal patience.”

* Invitation Note for Candidates: Send a personalized message that highlights the role’s benefits. For example, “I think you might be a potential fit for a remote software developer role that offers exciting projects.”

3/ Follow-Up Tactics

Following up is key to maintaining engagement:

* For Clients: Use open-ended questions to uncover needs. If they say they aren’t hiring, dig deeper by checking their job postings and asking targeted questions.

* For Candidates: Tailor your follow-ups based on their engagement and responses.

Final Thoughts

Successful recruiting isn’t necessarily about grinding harder; it’s about working smarter and being strategic in our approach - and LinkedIn can be a great channel to do just that. As Clark said, “It’s about leveraging the tools of today to make your efforts more efficient and effective.” So if you’re not active on LinkedIn yet, I hope this conversation was useful and will help you get started!

Listen to the full episode to dive deeper and learn how to create a robust LinkedIn system that drives results!

Byw the way! I love when people reply to these emails, and I read and reply to all of your messages. They keep me motivated to continue the podcast, even after 4 years! So I’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode: What strategies have you found effective on LinkedIn? What tools do you use yourselves? Come on, just hit reply and let’s chat!

Have a great week!

Robin

PS: My next episode will be with Jared Watts and we’ll be talking about how to apply professional sports (in Jared's case, soccer) to recruiting! It's been an awesome conversation, and I’m sure you’ll love it too! See you in two weeks!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Good morning everybody!

This week, we dropped an absolute masterclass on building a highly valuable recruiting/staffing agency to potentially sell for 8-figures. My guest was Diane Prince, who achieved that very goal by founding, growing, and exiting a company for $28 million! (several times actually)

Diane walked me through her entire entrepreneurial journey, from deciding at age 27 to "build a business to retire in our 30s" to the specific strategies and numbers that enabled her to do exactly that just 6 years later.

Here are some of the main takeways:

The Fundamentals

* Identify a niche and go deep (Diane started in title insurance staffing). That is something I keep hearing from successful agency owners/solopreneurs.

* Build a recurring revenue model as soon as possible to increase valuation multiples. Easier said than done, so I really pushed Diane to give a few examples that would work even for low-volume recruiting with smaller recurrence.

* Diversify with at least 3-5 major "anchor" clients accounting for <50% of revenue each

* Target 20%+ EBITDA margins and 3-6x EBITDA valuation multiples

On Increasing Your Agency's Value

* Build an executive team so the business can run without you

* Implement robust accounting and reporting processes

* Focus on client services that create embedded/recurring revenue streams

On Selling Your Agency

* Hire an investment banker to package and sell your company

* Potential acquirers include public staffing firms, private equity, competitors

* Relationships and networking are crucial for finding buyers

One of Diane's biggest tips was to religiously mine your "warm leads" and nurture existing relationships, even with candidates you didn't place. Some of her biggest clients came from people who had interviewed elsewhere and gotten hired!

There's so much more value packed into this episode. Diane draws from 30 years of staffing industry experience, multiple exits, and coaching/consulting for today's entrepreneurs. I learned a ton from her stories and tactics.

Give The Modern Recruiter #73 a listen and let me know what you think!

What were your biggest takeaways? People who don't own or lead an agency: did you find this useful anyway?.

Just hit reply and let me know!

PS: I feel this episode pairs nicely with The Modern Recruiter #70: A Pricing & Value Masterclass for Recruiters with Jon Brooks! Check it out now!

Robin

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everyone,

With the job market changing so rapidly over the past few years, I try to keep up. That means lots of chats with folks from various sectors. One person I've been talking with is Josh, the CEO at Hired.com. Josh has access to tons of proprietary data because Hired has been at it for a decade, generating 3 million interviews and helping 30,000 people find jobs. During one of our conversations, Josh brought up their latest report, "The Future of Tech Hiring: 8 Bold Predictions for 2024" based on a survey of 250 companies and 1,000 job seekers. We dived deep into it.

We figured, why not share this conversation with you all? I'm sure many of you would appreciate a closer look at Hired's data, whether you're searching for new opportunities or just curious about the future of the tech industry.

So, we decided to record a new conversation and dive into what's happening in tech hiring, backed by all that data Hired.com has. Here's what we covered:

A Shift Back Towards an Employer-Driven Market

The past 18 months have been a rollercoaster, marked by hiring freezes, layoffs, and uncertainty. The dynamics between employers and candidates are always shifting, and it seems we're indeed moving back towards an employer-driven market, something many of us have felt.

Yet, Josh advises, "Companies need to be really transparent and admit where things did not go as well as they should have gone," especially regarding layoffs and rehiring.

AI's Impact on Junior Tech Talent

One key trend is the pivot towards mid-senior level talent, reducing junior roles' availability. This shift is partly due to AI's growing influence, automating tasks once reserved for entry-level positions. However, Josh notes, "There's always more jobs that get created because of these technological advances than there are the jobs that do get lost."

Pulling Back from Fully Remote

The remote work landscape is also changing. What was once a necessity has now become a choice, with companies gradually retracting their fully remote positions. "During the peak of post-pandemic hiring, 70% of roles were open to remote. Now, that's dropped to below 50%," observes Josh.

A Changing Focus on DE&I

Although the active pursuit of diversity and inclusion goals may have seen a dip, the actual hiring of underrepresented talent hasn't declined. This hints at a more organic integration of DE&I principles into hiring practices.

And so much more…

As we navigate 2024, it's evident that agility, continuous learning, and openness to remote opportunities will be key for successful job seekers and recruiters. AI continues to transform the landscape, bringing new roles and challenges. We discussed all this and more, yet the outlook for 2024 remains uncertain!

What's your take on this discussion? What are your predictions? Just hit reply and let's chat!

Robin

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everyone!

Just wrapped up an amazing chat with Melissa Grabiner about something we all care about: how to get a better job. We talked about strategies to implement during the job search of course, but also before. We hope this will help some of you as listeners, but also your friends, family. Even if you’re not looking for a job right now, and if you probably know everything about recruiting (as you should if you’re interested in this podcast), we’re confident you’ll learn a few nuggets.

Melissa is a pro when it comes to job-seeking advice, and she’s built an audience on that topic of an impressive 266,000 followers on LinkedIn. That's 10X myself! She's been in talent acquisition and HR for 14 years, and she has more recently taken LinkedIn to share tips for job seekers. There's a lot of BS advice on job search out there - Melissa is legit.

Seriously, this episode's a keeper. Here's the summary on what we dived into:

1/ Melissa's Backstory

Melissa's been in the HR and talent game for years, making big moves and helping companies hire by the thousands. She's seen it all, from big pharma to biotech startups. And now, she's using her voice to help job seekers navigate the tricky waters of finding work, especially in a tough market like 2024.

2/ Job Hunting Like a Pro

We talked about everything from making sure your LinkedIn and resume are spot-on to navigating the often confusing advice out there. Melissa shared her top strategies for not just finding any job, but landing one that really fits what you're looking for. We also discussed how the best time to prepare is BEFORE actually looking for a job.

3/ Optimizing Your LinkedIn Profile

First impressions count, especially online. Melissa walked us through how to make your LinkedIn profile pop, from a professional photo to crafting a headline that tells a story beyond just your job title.

4/ Networking That Works

Melissa stressed the importance of networking, not just as a way to find opportunities but as a two-way street. It's about building relationships, giving as much as you take, and leveraging those connections for mutual benefit. I really liked that part and this reminded me of a book that I often quote (Give and Take by Adam Grant).

5/ Working With Recruiters and Agencies

Recruiters can be a big help, but of course, they're working for the companies, not for you. Melissa gave us a few tips on how to make these relationships work to your advantage, and how to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.

Wherever you are, we’re sending you good vibes and strength for your job search, and really hope that this discussion will be helpful!

What do you think? Just hit reply and let's get the conversation going!

Wishing you a week full of opportunities,

– Robin Choy

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everybody!

In a special episode that I've been teasing for a bit, Jon and I unpack the art and science of pricing for agencies and recruiters. Even if you're not from an agency, you'll want to hear this. We cover how to show your worth, focus on what really matters, and get recognized by your clients/hiring managers. This is gold whether you're on the inside or with an agency.

So, why Jon specifically? Well, he's probably the best expert on the topic of pricing + recruiting. After 8 years at REED (a top UK agency pulling in £1.2 billion a year), and setting up pricing strategies, he started his own company, The Value Advantage, to help recruiting firms nail their pricing.

He's also behind the great Substack newsletter Added Value where he shares tips, landing page analysis etc. - I would recommend everyone to subscribe now. By the way - I said in the episode that it was paid, but there's also a free tier. So subscribe :)

Honestly, this is one of my top episodes ever. I’ll keep recommending it for many years!

Here's what we discussed:

1/ Why we struggle with pricing innovation and a few models we can use

We went far beyond the typical dialogue around percentages and guarantee periods (though we talked about them). Jon shared the "Good, Better, Best" way to think about pricing. This means giving clients choices that fit what they need. It makes clients happier and makes sure you get paid right for what you do. Easier said than done, so we then discussed very practical way to implement this strategy.

2/ How we should think about Value Beyond Fees

Our chat went beyond just how much to charge, and tried to answer the billion dollar questions: how to communicate the value recruiters bring to the table? Jon shared a few quotes for famous entrepreneurs, and techniques to better show the value created.

3/ Practical Takeaways

From understanding what clients truly value to adjusting service offerings accordingly, Jon shared a lot of actionable insights on how recruiters can differentiate their services and justify their fees & salaries.

What do you think? Been thinking about how to show your value or set the right prices? I'd love to hear how you're applying these ideas. Just hit reply and let's talk!

Wishing you a very valuable week,

Robin Choy

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com

Hey everybody!

Robin here, and I'm back with another episode of The Modern Recruiter, diving deep into my latest obsession: the inner workings of recruitment agencies. This week, I had an awesome chat with Samuli, the brains behind TalentBee, a Europe-based, fully distributed recruiting agency created in August 2022, that's now booking ~70K€ of revenue per month. Not bad after 1.5 years! (and to have a comparable for the US, you can probably ~double those numbers)

We did a bit of a podcast exchange — first, I jumped onto Samuli's show, TalentBuzz here on Spotify), where I shared all my secrets on getting candidates to actually reply to you, amassed after 8 years of working on candidate engagement and recruiting CRMs. If you follow me on LinkedIn and like what I usually say, you're gonna love this episode. Remember to leave a good Spotify review on Samuli's podcast if you enjoy it!

Then we flipped the roles, and I got to grill Samuli on The Modern Recruiter. He didn't hold back, sharing the good and bad of his TalentBee adventure, complete with the cold, hard numbers. And let me tell you, he was super, super transparent about it all.

What grabbed my attention:

1/ How Samuli applied sales best practices to recruiting

You know I can't resist comparing sales/marketing with recruiting.

Samuli's got a background in sales and marketing, not your typical recruiter backstory, so he wouldn't disagree. What's his secret sauce and how did he apply all his previous learnings? He puts a heavy emphasis on branding and engaging candidates in unique ways — he will for instance share videos of the engineering team describing the role they're hiring for.

He also walked us through the playbook he used to get his initial clients.

2/ How TalentBee thinks about productivity

Because TalentBee is fully distributed, they absolutely have to think about productivity. We talked about hours worked, time-audit (one of my favorite productivity techniques), revenue multiples, transparency about business operations, including profitability and employee contributions, etc.

3/ How they managed to build recurring revenue

That's the Holy Grail for a lot of agencies - yet very few manage to build true recurring revenue. Most recruiting operations are transactional by nature, which is why TalentBee's approach to locking in 70% of their revenue through recurring streams really intrigued me.

It led us down a rabbit hole of pricing strategies, delivering value, and all that good stuff we'll dive deeper into with Jon Brooks in a soon-to-come episode (promise, it's worth the wait!).

So, what do you think? I’d love to hear your take on TalentBee's journey and the insights shared by Samuli. Just hit reply and let’s chat!

Wishing you an inspiring week ahead,

– Robin Choy

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themodernrecruiter.substack.com