Tonya Leadman went nine months without a single placement.

Seven searches were put on hold. Two offers fell through. Cash flow tightened. And her accountant called to check if she was okay.

Tonya is the owner of Leadman & Associates, a national executive search firm serving the food, beverage, and CPG manufacturing industries. After building her career as a top performer in the MRI Network and later moving in-house as a Fortune 500 talent acquisition leader, she launched her own firm in 2022.

Then the market turned — and placements stopped.

In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Tonya shares what actually keeps a recruitment business alive during a prolonged downturn — without dropping fees, spamming clients with resumes, or compromising standards.

She also breaks down the candidate presentation system behind her 92% interview rate, why she only submits the top two or three candidates, and the activity that kept her visible when most recruiters disappeared.

This is a real conversation about resilience, discipline, and leadership when placements stop.

You’ll learn:

• What to do when your recruitment business goes months without a placement

• How Tonya maintained standards during a nine-month drought

• Why submitting fewer candidates builds more trust with clients

• The candidate presentation process behind a 92% interview rate

• How staying visible during a downturn pays off when the market turns

• Why Tonya fired a client when cash flow was tight

• How career services helped stabilise revenue without losing focus

• How fast recruiting can turn around when momentum returns

Episode timestamps:
00:00 Nine months without a placement
01:40 Returning from maternity leave to a layoff
03:10 The habits that shaped Tonya’s early success
14:35 The candidate presentation system behind a 92% interview rate
18:19 Why Tonya submits only the top 2–3 candidates
30:33 Launching a firm during a tough market
39:00 Seven searches on hold and the drought begins
43:02 The activity that kept her business alive
44:30 Firing a client during a downturn
49:17 Career services as a stabiliser
51:05 How recruiting can turn around fast

Guest: Tonya Leadman
Owner, Leadman & Associates

If you run a recruitment agency and want to survive market downturns without lowering your standards, this episode is essential listening.

For years, Matt Rooney did what a lot of capable recruiters do. He stayed busy. Took the work that came in. Said yes more often than he should have.

Inside private equity, that turned him into what he later called a "utility recruiter". Useful, but reactive. Some years were strong. Others weren't. And it never quite felt like a real partnership with clients.

Two decisions changed the direction of his business.

Matt narrowed his focus to one role inside private equity: business development and deal origination. Then he made the shift from contingent to retained.

Today, Matt is the founder of Coastal Partners. He's gone from closing 3–4 retained searches in his first year as a specialist to being on track for 10 retained searches this year, with the majority of his work now retained.

In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Matt breaks down what actually made that transition possible. Not theory. Not scripts. Real decisions, real resistance, and what changed once clients started committing up front.

This conversation is especially relevant if you run a recruitment agency, lead a small firm, or feel stuck in feast-or-famine despite working hard.

What you'll learn:

• Why being a "utility recruiter" keeps agencies reactive

• What changed when Matt stopped taking every job

• How he handled the "no retained experience" objection

• Why specialisation built confidence and credibility fast

• How original market data helped him become a trusted partner

• Why predictability mattered more than volume

Episode timestamps:

[00:33] Why does contingent feel reactive

[03:02] How Matt fell into recruitment

[07:11] Feeling stuck as a utility recruiter

[12:44] Resisting the idea of niching down

[15:18] Why specialisation changed client relationships

[19:03] Making the move to retained

[20:39] First retained searches and predictability

[27:40] Mapping the market and building authority

[34:16] Publishing hiring reports and compensation data

[35:25] Launching the Deal Sourcery podcast

[50:31] Hosting a live panel at a PE conference

[55:56] Why Matt would specialise sooner

Guest bio:

Matt Rooney is the founder of Coastal Partners and specialises exclusively in business development and deal origination roles within private equity. After nearly a decade recruiting across PE functions, Matt made the decision to focus on one specialty. In his first year as a retained specialist, he closed 3-4 retained searches. This year, he's on track to close 10, with the majority of his business now retained. Matt has become a recognised authority in his niche through original market research, publishing quarterly BD hiring reports and an annual compensation survey. He co-hosts the Deal Sourcery podcast with Dan Her—the only podcast dedicated specifically to business development professionals in private equity.

Connect with Matt:

• LinkedIn: Matt Rooney

• Coastal Partners: website

• Deal Sourcery Podcast: website

About The Resilient Recruiter:

The Resilient Recruiter is a weekly podcast for recruitment agency owners and search firm leaders building sustainable, profitable businesses. Host Mark Whitby interviews industry leaders who share the strategies, systems, and mindsets behind their success—including the mistakes they made along the way. Learn from their experience to avoid the pitfalls and accelerate your results..

Since 2001, Mark has coached over 800 recruitment business owners across 34 countries. The podcast brings you the same frameworks and insights Mark teaches in his coaching programs—free every week.

Connect with Mark:

• Free strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session

• LinkedIn: Mark Whitby

• Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter for weekly conversations with recruitment leaders who are building businesses that give them freedom, profit, and lasting impact.

If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

AI is accelerating at a rate faster than at any point in recruitment history. New tools are emerging monthly. Employers are experimenting without clear guardrails. And agency owners are left wondering which developments will matter - and which are just noise.

In this episode, I sit down with Matt Alder, talent acquisition futurist and host of Recruiting Future, to cut through the hype and focus on the realities of AI in recruitment today. With more than 25 years tracking technology's impact on talent acquisition, Matt brings a long-term perspective few others can match.

We explore the shift from experimentation to adoption, including real examples of employers using AI to conduct live voice interviews with candidates. Matt breaks down where AI is already delivering value, where it's still falling short, and why trust has become the most important currency in recruitment.

He explains the three human skills that will keep recruiters indispensable - networks, relationships, and influence - and why agencies who double down on these strengths will rise above the noise. We also discuss the two competing futures unfolding right now: Recruiting Utopia vs Recruiting Dystopia.

Matt closes with a prediction about agentic AI - a future where candidate agents and employer agents negotiate autonomously. It sounds futuristic, but Matt believes it's entirely feasible and may reshape the industry faster than people expect.

If you're a recruitment leader looking to stay ahead of technological change, this episode offers clarity, direction, and a practical roadmap for the years ahead.

TAKEAWAYS

- Why the pace of AI innovation is unlike anything the recruitment industry has seen

- How employers are already using AI to conduct voice interviews

- Why trust is eroding - and how recruiters can rebuild it

- The three human skills that keep recruiters relevant

- Why outreach automation isn't effective yet

- How candidate-facing AI may disrupt faster than employer tech

- The two competing futures: Recruiting Utopia vs Dystopia

- What agentic AI could mean for hiring and recruiter influence

TIMESTAMPS

4:23 Matt's background and the evolution of TA tech

7:19 What HR/IT convergence reveals about the future

10:29 AI hype vs practical reality

14:18 Where AI is already improving recruitment processes

21:14 Why AI interviews may enhance candidate experience

26:24 Categories of AI tools shaping workflows

32:45 Why automation isn't fixing outreach

40:20 Networks, relationships, influence - the future skillset

47:02 The erosion of trust and how recruiters can differentiate

52:16 Recruiting Utopia vs Recruiting Dystopia

55:04 The agentic AI future

57:48 What agency owners must pay attention to now

GUEST BIO

Matt Alder is a talent acquisition futurist, international speaker, author, and host of Recruiting Future, the number one podcast in the recruitment industry. Over the past 11 years, he has interviewed hundreds of leaders and innovators across the global TA landscape. Matt advises employers on innovation and technology strategy and has been studying recruitment technology since the late 1990s.

GUEST LINKS

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattalder/

Recruiting Future Podcast: http://www.recruitingfuture.com

CONNECT WITH MARK WHITBY

FREE Strategy Call: https://recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/recruitmentcoach/

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter: https://plinkhq.com/i/1489513354

For 20 years, Maria Sinclair watched other people get promoted while she stayed stuck in her own head. She questioned whether she belonged, worried about how she was perceived, and doubted nearly every decision she made.

Then Covid hit, and everything changed.
Cobalt furloughed 45 of its 55 UK staff, leaving only ten people working. Maria picked up multiple desks, supported clients across new specialisms, and kept the operation steady during one of the most challenging periods the industry had ever seen. That moment revealed a capability she had never fully recognised in herself.

Today, Maria is the Managing Director of Cobalt, ranked 49th in the UK’s Hot 100 list based on GP per employee. After 23 years with the business, she has worked her way up from recruitment consultant to MD while helping build a culture known for tenure, trust, and consistent performance.

In this conversation, Maria explains how she built confidence later in her career, why she focuses on job quality over call volume, how openness about challenges like perimenopause strengthens team culture, and how Cobalt hires for work ethic and trains for market expertise.

If you have ever doubted whether you are ready to lead, this episode shows what becomes possible when you start backing yourself.

You’ll learn:
• How Maria entered recruitment after being rejected eight times
• Why confidence took decades to develop
• How she navigated the 2009 crash, Brexit, and Covid
• Why the COVID-19 crisis became the turning point in her leadership
• The cultural principles that support performance
• Why job quality matters more than call volume
• How Cobalt assesses work ethic and validates billings
• The patience required to train recruiters from other sectors
• Why expertise beats activity in the built environment

Timestamps:
[6:00] Breaking into recruitment after eight rejections
[18:29] The confidence struggle
[24:09] Navigating economic shocks
[25:36] The Covid moment
[28:49] The promotion that shifted everything
[30:44] Being open about perimenopause
[36:17] Culture and retention
[41:37] KPIs that matter
[50:18] Hiring for work ethic
[54:29] Training recruiters from other sectors
[58:13] Becoming an industry expert
[1:01:06] Closing rate problems and what they mean

Guest Bio:
Maria Sinclair is the Managing Director of Cobalt, operating across the built environment with offices in the UK, Germany, and the US. Cobalt ranks 49th in Recruiter Magazine’s Hot 100 list based on GP per employee. Maria has been with Cobalt for 23 years and was appointed UK MD in January 2024.

What does it take to raise your fees, win better clients, and rebuild your recruiting business from the ground up?

In this episode, I speak with Randee Staats, founder of S4 Search Partners, who went from losing everything — $250K in debt and $500 left — to rebuilding a seven-figure desk within the following year.

Randee explains the decisions that nearly destroyed his business, the turning point that pushed him to rebuild, and the systems that rebuilt his confidence, his pipeline, and his profitability.

He also breaks down the daily discipline, fee structure changes, and point-based productivity system that helped him win better clients and finally charge what he is worth.

• How Randee launched his firm from his parents' basement

• The moment he landed a billion-dollar client

• The scaling mistake that cost him $250K

• Why he walked away from a $600K account

• How he raised his fees to 20 to 25 percent

• The script he uses to convert email replies into meetings

• The daily BD rhythm that rebuilt his pipeline

• The point system that keeps him consistent

• How he broke seven figures the year after rebuilding

02:49 Discovering recruiting
05:04 Launching from the basement
09:35 The Jim Carrey check
13:15 Early success and hidden risks
14:18 The scaling mistake
17:16 The turning point
23:10 The weekly client call script
42:00 The wake-up call
44:14 New rules for pricing
46:47 The $30K placement
50:21 Daily planner
51:22 BD rhythm
1:03:09 The point system
1:07:33 Breaking seven figures

Randee Staats is the founder of S4 Search Partners, based in New Jersey. He launched the firm in 2015, scaled a major national account to $600K, and later rebuilt his business from $500 and $250K in debt to seven-figure billings using a disciplined daily system and a new fee structure.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randee-staats/

Free 30-minute strategy call: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/
Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Why do some recruiters struggle for traction while others build demand engines that bring clients to them? My guest, Tom Froggatt, made that shift after three days of calling 600 people with no results.

Tom is the founder of Singular, a biotech search firm and one of Europe's leading specialists. Six months after launching the business, he hit a breaking point that changed everything. Instead of doubling down on cold calls, Tom built a system that creates predictable client demand. Today, a £4,000 campaign can generate £55,000 in revenue, and his business runs on consistent inbound opportunities.

In this conversation, Tom explains how he replaced cold outreach with a system, how he uses content and insight reports to convert strangers into six figure clients, and why the volume required for effective marketing is far higher than most recruiters expect.

• Why Tom realised he did not have a BD problem but a systems problem

• How three days of rejection created a turning point

• How podcasting connected him with senior biotech leaders

• Why each client is worth £55,000 in 12 months

• How his insight report converts inbound retained work

• Why most recruiters underestimate the required volume

• How thinking like a tech founder beats thinking like a traditional recruiter

[6:44] Starting Singular in a windowless office and the six-month reality check
[19:16] Three days, 600 calls, zero results. The moment everything changed
[21:22] Launching "Careers in Discovery" and building relationships with senior biotech leaders
[22:05] The podcast guest who walked Tom straight to HR and introduced him on the spot
[36:44] The mindset shift from "winning clients" to building revenue-generating systems
[42:16] Why each client is worth £55,000 in 12 months and what that means for ad spend
[49:30] The exact funnel. Free insight reports that convert strangers into six-figure partnerships
[54:14] Why Tom gives away £2,500 worth of market data for free and why it works
[58:47] How to identify real client pain points without guessing
[1:03:09] Why reverse engineering problems to fit your service always fails
[1:10:27] The volume truth. Why 200 outreach attempts are not nearly enough

If you want to build predictable client demand without relying on cold outreach, this episode will show you how.

Tom Froggatt is the founder of Singular, a biotech search and talent company specialising in early drug discovery roles across Europe. Before Singular, Tom spent ten years at S3, where he opened their New York office at age 25. He is also the host of the Careers in Discovery podcast with more than 300 episodes.

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tom-froggatt
Singular: https://book.singular-biotech.com/web

Versapia website

Free strategy call: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mwhitby

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Why do some recruitment founders build seven-figure businesses while others plateau despite working just as hard? My guest, Ollie Scott, discovered growth doesn't come from hustle alone. It comes from strategic bets.

Ollie is the founder of Unknown, a talent growth consultancy that's worked with over 500 brands including Nike, Apple, and Disney. Six years ago, he started with £13,000 on a credit card and one mission: build the opposite of every recruitment company he'd ever seen.

In this episode, Ollie shares his journey from rebellion to revenue. You'll hear why differentiation always beats trying to be the best, how scaling from 8 to 18 people nearly destroyed his business, and the three strategic bets he used to rebuild.

You’ll Learn:
• Why trying to be the “best” agency is a losing strategy
• How Unknown defined a point of view clients cared about
• What went wrong scaling from 8 to 18 people
• Why profit is the safety net that enables innovation
• How to build a productized recruitment offering
• Why freelance talent pools are the future of recurring revenue
• How recruiters can monetise M&A intelligence
• How to price buy-side advisory at six-figure fees

Episode Timestamps:
[4:05] Selling suits to James Caan’s recruitment firm
[10:23] Launching Unknown with £13,000 on a credit card
[15:36] Naming strategy and brand distinctiveness
[18:26] Writing a breakup letter to recruitment companies
[21:44] Why rebellion works early but can’t scale
[36:36] Productizing around three ICPs
[44:03] Scaling to 18 people destroyed profit margins
[48:34] Profit as psychological safety
[53:20] Building recurring revenue through freelance talent pools
[58:25] Why recruiters have more M&A intelligence than M&A firms

Guest Bio:
Ollie Scott is the founder of Unknown, a £3 million talent growth consultancy specialising in the global creative industry. Before launching Unknown, Ollie spent six years at Gemini People, joining the board in his early twenties. Unknown now operates across executive search, freelance talent pools, and M&A advisory for creative agencies.

Connect with Ollie:
LinkedIn: Ollie Scott
Website: unknown.media

Connect with Mark:
recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session
linkedin.com/in/markwhitby
Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Why do some recruitment business leaders triple their revenue while others plateau despite working twice as hard? My guest, Martin Herbst, discovered the answer the hard way. After hitting rock bottom with burnout, he rebuilt his leadership philosophy from the ground up — and within five years, JobAdder tripled its revenue and client base.

Martin is the CEO of JobAdder, one of the world’s leading recruitment technology platforms. Under his leadership, the company has achieved record growth while helping recruiters work smarter without losing the human touch.

In this episode, Martin opens up about his personal experience with burnout and shares how he transformed that crisis into a leadership breakthrough. You’ll learn how he built a healthier, more effective approach to scaling a recruitment business one that’s rooted in purpose, values, and vision rather than constant hustle.

He also breaks down the exact leadership frameworks that helped JobAdder grow sustainably: how to align your team around a clear long-term strategy, why empathy drives innovation, and how to balance big-picture vision with daily execution.

Beyond leadership, Martin dives into how technology and AI are reshaping recruitment. He explains where automation genuinely creates value for recruiters, how to avoid the “AI hype trap,” and why human connection will always be the most powerful differentiator in this business.

If you’ve ever struggled with overwhelm, exhaustion, or inconsistent growth, this conversation is a must-listen. Martin’s story is proof that scaling your business doesn’t require sacrificing your health or your values.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• How burnout became the catalyst for a breakthrough

• The daily habits that keep stress and anxiety in check

• Why swimming is Martin’s secret weapon for clarity and focus

• The strategy process behind JobAdder’s 5-year growth story

• Why most recruitment leaders underinvest in long-term planning

• How to use vision and values as your ultimate growth levers

• The fundamental role of AI in recruitment (and where it adds true value)

• Why the best BD technology is still the telephone

Episode highlights:
[6:44] The burnout story: high anxiety and insomnia that led to stepping away completely
[11:17] Morning and evening borders: the simple habits that prevent burnout from creeping back
[19:32] How JobAdder tripled revenue in five years, and why it wasn’t about working harder
[23:31] Why most recruitment agency owners underinvest in strategy and long-term vision
[32:29] Why recruitment might be the profession most immune to AI disruption
[48:36] Why automation has created diminishing returns in outreach
[53:59] The #1 business development tool that still outperforms AI

Martin’s story is both a cautionary tale and an inspiring roadmap for recruiters who want to build high-performing, values-driven businesses that last.

Guest Bio:
Martin Herbst is the CEO of JobAdder, a global recruitment software company headquartered in Sydney, Australia. Under his leadership, JobAdder has tripled its revenue and client base in five years. Before joining JobAdder in 2020, Martin spent nearly seven years at eBay running their classifieds business in Australia (Gumtree). He also worked at eBay in San Francisco and at the Wall Street Journal online in digital media strategy. Originally from the United States, Martin now lives in Australia.

Connect with Martin:
LinkedIn: Martin Herbst on LinkedIn
Website: JobAdder.com

Connect with Mark:
Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session
Mark on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/markwhitby
Follow on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

How does a professional touring musician go from the recording studio to building a $1.2M recruiting firm without ever making a single cold call?

In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Justin Levinson, founder of Coming Up Creative, reveals how he blended creativity, authenticity, and smart systems to grow a seven-figure recruitment business serving the world’s top entertainment and gaming brands.

Justin’s story is proof that success in recruitment isn’t about grinding harder - it’s about thinking differently. You’ll hear how he built a global team, automated outreach without losing the human touch, and turned every conversation into an opportunity.

Listen to discover:

• How creative thinking helped Justin scale to $1.2M in billings

• The “anti-campaign” approach that fills his calendar with warm leads

• Why branding and design matter more in creative industries

• How to build trust, credibility, and inbound clients without cold calls

• The diversification strategy that kept his firm thriving through Hollywood strikes

If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s possible to grow a high-performing recruiting business without endless prospecting, this episode is your blueprint.

Connect with Justin Levinson
LinkedIn: Justin Levinson
Website: Coming Up Creative

Connect with Mark Whitby
FREE strategy session: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session
LinkedIn: Mark Whitby

The hardest part of business development isn't effort, it's consistency. Most recruiters know what to do, but struggle to do it every day while juggling clients, candidates, and placements. You know you should be reaching out to prospects daily, but between managing active searches, candidate interviews, and client meetings, your pipeline suffers. The solution? Build automated systems that generate leads while you focus on conversations that close deals.

Giorgio Zanella is a go-to-market engineer who's built hundreds of automation workflows for recruiters and founders. Working out of Clay's New York office, he's spent three years mastering the platform and helping recruitment professionals scale their outbound without losing the personal touch. In this behind-the-scenes episode of The Resilient Recruiter, we break down the exact infrastructure, tools, and strategies you need to automate your outbound without sacrificing personalization or sounding like spam.
This isn't theory. Giorgio has analyzed thousands of campaigns and knows exactly what separates automation that works from automation that gets ignored. You'll learn why Clay.com has become the number one platform for scaling outreach, how to choose the right tools for email and LinkedIn automation, what infrastructure you actually need (domains, inboxes, and warming protocols), and how to achieve 3-5% response rates on cold email when most people can't break 1%.

We cover the complete tech stack: Clay for workflow automation and data enrichment, Instantly for email sequencing, HeyReach for LinkedIn automation, and how these tools work together to create synchronized multichannel campaigns. You'll discover how Clay's "waterfall enrichment" replaces expensive tools like ZoomInfo (saving you $15K+ per year), why LinkedIn outreach gets higher response rates than email (and its hidden limitations), and how to build email infrastructure that protects your domain reputation while scaling to hundreds of sends per day.

Giorgio shares the exact formula for safe, sustainable outreach: 3-4 alternate domains, 2 inboxes per domain, 12-15 emails per inbox per day, and the two-week warming process you can't skip. He explains why most recruiters wreck their deliverability by sending from their main domain, how to set up synchronized campaigns where email, LinkedIn, and phone calls happen in coordinated sequences, and why relevance (right person, right time, right message) beats volume every single time.
You'll learn what "good" response rates actually look like (spoiler: they're lower than you think, but the ROI is massive), how to calculate return on investment for cold outreach campaigns, and why even a 1% response rate can generate huge returns when your infrastructure costs are minimal. Giorgio breaks down why personalization and timing are more important than blast volume, how to track real-time signals like job changes and promotions to time your outreach perfectly, and the practical first steps to start automating your business development this month.

This episode is part of our new course, Automate Your Outreach: How to Generate Client Leads Daily on Autopilot, a four-week implementation program where Mark and Giorgio guide you step-by-step through building your own automation system. Whether you're a solo recruiter trying to scale or an agency owner looking to systematize business development across your team, this conversation gives you the blueprint.

Episode highlights:

• [00:50] Introducing Giorgio Zanella and the vision behind the "Automate Your Outreach" program
• [03:30] What is Clay and why recruiters are using it to automate lead generation
• [07:35] The tech stack you actually need: Clay, Instantly, HeyReach (and what to skip)
• [12:20] How to replace expensive data tools like ZoomInfo with Clay's "waterfall enrichment"
• [18:40] Email vs. LinkedIn outreach: which gets more replies and why
• [23:25] How to run synchronized multichannel campaigns (email + LinkedIn + phone)
• [31:30] Why personalization and timing beat volume every time
• [40:55] Building a bulletproof email infrastructure (domains, inboxes, warm-up rules)
• [52:00] What "good" reply rates look like and how to calculate ROI on outreach
• [1:10:00] Practical first steps to start automating your BD this month

For more information or to register for the Automate Your Outreach course, visit recruitmentcoach.com/automate

Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: http://www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/

Connect with Giorgio Zanella on LinkedIn

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.