If you're struggling to hire high-performing recruiters across multiple cities or regions, the issue might not be your comp plan—it’s your value proposition. In this episode, I sit down with Lisa Dixon of FIFTEEN WEST to unpack a strategy that more recruitment agency owners need to use: customizing your EVP (Employee Value Proposition) based on location.
Lisa shares hard-won insights from helping dozens of UK recruitment firms expand into the U.S. market. She reveals what actually moves the needle when it comes to attracting top talent, from wellness perks in New York to parking subsidies in Houston.
If you want to build a high-performing team across multiple geographies, this episode is a must-listen.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[03:25] Lisa shares how they founded FIFTEEN WEST.
[09:45] Discussion on strategies for US Market entry.
[18:59] Compensation differences and challenges between the UK & US recruitment markets.
[29:59] An Attractive employee value proposition to attract the best talent.
[32:57] Discussion on tech stack and offshoring certain delivery functions as an option for recruitment companies.
[37:55] How 11 Investments recently acquired FIFTEEN WEST.
[46:27] Aha moments: Key learnings from working with a bigger business that has been further in the journey.

Strategies When Expanding to the US Market

As a rec-to-rec firm, FIFTEEN WEST initially focused on helping UK-headquartered businesses to expand to America. They have eventually moved to the US as a strategic effort to become an embedded recruitment partner across their clients’ global operations. Doing so is not easy, so I wanted to pick the strategies that Lisa and her team applied when transitioning to the US market. If you are also planning to establishing an office physically within the US, below are the things that Lisa learned that you may want to keep in mind:

Leadership Deployment: One proven method was sending a founder or long-tenured employee to launch the U.S. office, ensuring the company’s DNA and values were transplanted effectively. This model was described as the most successful—helping set culture, hire locally, and scale faster.

Tailored Unique Value Proposition: One main differences that Lisa pointed out is the commission and base salary structure. To get the best recruiters and talents, they adapted their commission structures and incentives for the U.S. market, realizing early on that what worked in the UK didn’t translate directly.

Market Culture Adaptation: Lisa recognized that the U.S. market is more pragmatic and transactional—clients care less about past success and more about current candidates delivery.

Overall, Lisa emphasized cultural embedding, leadership presence, and operational agility to navigate the distinct dynamics of the American recruitment market.

Why do most recruitment companies stall at 10 to 20 people, while others scale to 100+ across continents? In this episode, you’ll hear directly from someone who’s done it.

With Clive’s success in scaling his team globally, I wanted to pick his brains on his thought process when deciding to make a new hire. As a recruitment business owner, this is a critical decision to make, as doing it too slowly can impede your business’s growth, while doing it too rapidly can lead to longer-term problems that cost more to fix.

Clive shared the following decision factors:

Strategic Forecasting & Business Planning - Hiring plans are based on quarterly forecasts developed by each brand’s leadership.

Critical Mass & Team Size Considerations - A certain headcount is needed to reach operational momentum, but hiring must be sustainable. Smaller teams (e.g., <10 people) can’t absorb too many new hires without harming billing output.

Billing Readiness - No new hires are made until existing team members are up and billing effectively.

Managerial Capacity - Avoids spreading leadership too thin and ensures productivity isn't sacrificed. The team or brand must have a strong leader with the capacity to onboard, mentor, and support new hires.

Avoiding Headcount for Vanity - Growth is measured by gross profit, not headcount, ensuring hires contribute to revenue, not just size.

Culture You Can Replicate

Culture isn’t just lip service, it’s a competitive advantage. At STR, the “Make it Happen” and “D.I.N (Do it NOW)” mantra became more than a slogan; it was a daily mindset that helped the team stay focused, take ownership, and remain commercially sharp as the business scaled.

As you grow beyond a small team, you’ll need a culture that can travel across desks, offices, and even continents. A clear, replicable culture creates alignment without micromanagement, making it easier to scale while maintaining high standards.

“Is what I’m doing right now making me money?” It’s a simple question—but it changes how people work.”

Clive Hutchings Bio and Contact Info

Clive Hutchings has worked in Technical Recruitment since 1996. he established STR Group in 2000, which has evolved into a collection of niche brands in STEM sectors operating across the UK, Europe, and the USA. STR’s brands deliver people solutions in Life Sciences, Technical Engineering, Automation and Robotics, Maritime & Architecture. Now with offices in Portsmouth, Gatwick, Detroit, and Switzerland, they provide various solutions from contingent contract and permanent, through to retained, managed services, MSP, and Project solutions.

Aside from work, Clive is a family man with 5 children and a long-suffering wife. He enjoys football, hiking, being outdoors, and looking after his sheep, having recently taken a course in lambing.

Clive on LinkedIn
STR website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Blackfield Associates website link
• Navis Consulting website link
• Urban Recruitment website link
• Insignis Talent website link
• Talos Automation website link

• James Caan on LinkedIn
• Alex Elliot on LinkedIn
• Bullhorn

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What does the future look like for recruitment agency owners?

Episode Outline and Highlights

[03:00] DeeDee’s journey from Seattle to London — and 20 years leading Recruiter magazine

Innovation is King - Especially in a Saturated Market

DeeDee and I had a very interesting conversation on the similarities and differences between the UK and US recruitment markets. One of the key differences I pointed out is how saturated the UK market is compared to the US, while the US offers more profitable potential due to fees generated from higher salaries. DeeDee pointed out one thing that sets apart the UK market as a differentiator - she believes that the UK recruitment agencies, especially SMEs, are often more innovative than their US counterparts, not because of scale, but because saturation forces creativity. The US tends to focus on scale, while UK firms focus on differentiation and doing things differently.

But the key takeaway is this: You don’t need to be the biggest—you just need to do things differently, and better. Innovation is now a competitive requirement, not a nice-to-have.

AI and the Future of Recruitment

You will also enjoy DeeDee’s insightful take on the advent of AI and how it will impact recruiters globally. We agree that AI will be useful in freeing recruiters from administrative tasks to focus on human interaction and strategies. The integration of AI tools can also improve the candidate experience by providing timely updates and personalized communication, fostering a more engaging and supportive recruitment process.

With the streamlining and efficiency potentials AI can offer, it is also important to shift the focus from the old model of scaling, where you would need to add more people. With AI tools evolving fast, firms may no longer need as many people to get the same—or better—results. Efficiency and smart use of tech will define the next wave of growth.

It’s Time to Champion the Value of Recruitment

DeeDee has always advocated the value and importance of the recruitment profession. Too often, recruiters don’t get credit for the work they do—whether it’s helping someone into a new career, reskilling talent, or supporting growth in client businesses.

DeeDee encourages agency leaders to enter awards, tell their stories, and raise standards across the profession. Doing your part means being proud of what you do as a recruiter or recruitment business owner by making others know of the impact you are making.

Is there value in doing so? Indeed, this can attract better clients and talent in the long run.

DeeDee Doke Bio and Contact Info

Long-time editor of Recruiter magazine, DeeDee has more than 20 years of experience as a recruitment/HR specialist journalist and editor. She also has significant international experience as a defence and aviation journalist and in entertainment (theatre, contemporary music) reporting and editing. Originally from Seattle in the US, she has been a proud UK subject/citizen since 2007.

DeeDee on LinkedIn

Connect with Mark Whitby

What if discovering your neurodivergent could unlock a deeper sense of purpose—and make your recruitment business more impactful?

[02:40] How Adam got into recruiting, leading to his 20-year-old recruitment firm.

Solutions

Adam Tobias Bio and Contact Info

People and Resources Mentioned

Connect with Mark Whitby

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What if you could swap 100 cold calls a day for content that reaches thousands?

In this episode, Justis shares how going digital didn’t just scale his reach, it nearly doubled his revenue.

Justis Pederson is an award-winning recruiter and the CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies in Winnipeg, which he has grown from $500K to $1.8M in revenue.

His group of companies includes recruitment, media, and real estate. On the recruitment side, they specialize in construction & engineering.

I’m excited to learn that Justis complements his recruiting business with his media business. They have turned video production into a differentiator, specifically leveraging video and digital marketing as a key differentiator.

Justis serves on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society, a collective of the top-performing recruiters in North America.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[02:57] How Justis got into recruiting - from door-to-door salesman to becoming a top recruiter in construction.

Shifting from Cold Calling to Digital Marketing

If your primary source of leads is through cold-calling, would you consider shifting to digital marketing? Justis realized the benefits of doing so, as cold-calling usually limits him to reaching 100 people a day, but with digital content, he can demonstrate their subject matter expertise to thousands.

“So we started posting content online. And instead of going from one to one cold calling, it's one to many: one to 1,000, one to 10,000, one to 20,000 plus people. So what you're doing is you're actually just demonstrating what your subject matter expertise is. Instead of on the phone to people that already know you, you're doing it online to a larger population of people that do not know you.”

How did they transition from pure cold calling to digital marketing?

When Justis first started at Hayes and later running his own recruitment business, it was all about cold calling. But like a lot of recruiters, he hit that point of burnout. You can only hear “no” so many times before you start asking, Is there a better way to do this? They began putting their expertise online, mainly on LinkedIn, aiming to reach not just dozens, but thousands. Then came the big move: hiring Cass in 2022 as their first team member, not another recruiter, but a full-time content and social media manager. Instead of hiring another 360 recruiter, Justis placed his bet on the potential of digital marketing.

Eventually, it paid off. They started producing all kinds of content—videos, thought pieces, scroll-stopping visuals—all tailored to their niche in construction and real estate. And people started paying attention—not just candidates but clients, too. Inbound leads started rolling in.

The ROI of Hiring an Effective Marketing Person

Was there a return on investment from the step that Justis took? That is, focusing mainly on being top-of-mind via digital content? There was! “To quantify that, when I first hired Cass in our first year, we did about, I think it was about $500,000… And in our second year after hiring Cass, we did closer to a million. So, just simple numbers there. Like, we almost doubled our billings.”

Justis, however, reminded us that hiring an effective marketing person is not an instant result-generating move. You also have to invest time, like what she did with Cass. He spent at least a year working with her, and it took almost two years to see actual results.

“But it did take like a lot of time to get there. Mark, I don't want your listeners to think like, oh, you hire a marketing person and 30 days later you're going to be getting all these inbound leads, because that's not how it works. And a lot of people are wired to think, you know, 30, 60, 90-day return. But this was something that happened for two years. Not 30 or 60, 90 days. Like when I hired Cas, the idea was, okay, we'll give it a year and see how it does.”

The Three Pillars of Content and How to Start

For Justis, there are three pillars of a well-curated, quality content:

Graphic Design

Justis elaborated on these three pillars and how they emphasized the importance of writing as the basis of videos and graphic designs. He also shared strategies on posting at least 4 pieces of content a week, and why spreading too thin on different social media platforms may not always work. He also shared that to start and build a brand, you don’t even need a high budget.

Justis shared, “But I think what I would say is it doesn't have to be an extremely high-budget effort. Like you can do this with a low budget effort.”

Justis Pederson Bio and Contact Info

Justis is an award-winning recruiter as well as President & CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies. His group of companies includes recruitment, media, and real estate.

The Pederson Group recruitment specializes in a very niche market - construction & engineering. Outside of running the day-to-day operations of the businesses, Justis sits on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society.

Justis on LinkedIn

People and Resources Mentioned

Pinnacle Society

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How do you build an endless stream of referrals to sustain your recruitment business during an economic downturn?

Brandon Glyck relies on this strategy: relentless follow-ups. This doesn’t mean harassing a client or candidate to do follow-ups; in fact, it is the other way around. I am sure you will find Brandon’s insight on this topic interesting!

Brandon is the CEO of Quantum Search Partners in Virginia, where he leads a passionate team of tech and executive recruiters.

They’ve been recognized three consecutive years on the Inc.500 list of fastest-growing companies (2021-2023) and have twice been a Washington Business Journal Best Place to Work (2023 and 2024).

Episode Outline and Highlights

[03:15] How Brandon got into recruiting at the young age of 18.

[11:24] Doing things differently to adapt to the 2008 recession.

[15:24] The strategy of leveraging relationships and constant referrals via relentless follow-ups.

[33:12] “Those who appear hungry will starve.” - Know Brandon’s conversation approach.

[37:46] Dealing with the 2023 Tech downturn by upping their outbound business development.

[44:02] Discussion on Tech Stacks, AI, and automation - what are the key things to personalize?

[53:48] Brandon’s plans and what the next 18 years will look like.

[56:49] Building a culture aligned with a common vision and shared values.

[1:01:30] Why lean towards retained and executive search?

Age is Not a Differentiator 

Brandon shared an astonishing story about making his first placement when he was 18, while attending school. Inspired by his father, being young was never a differentiating factor that hindered him from building a solid foundation as an effective recruiter and eventually a business owner. 

He shared, “I saw my dad doing it. My dad would close deals like sitting on a lounge chair in the middle of our living room… I'm like, well, if he can do it, you know, why can't I do it? You do the research on the companies you're representing. You learn about the skill sets, and you just dive into it. And I don't think age is a differentiating factor. I think sometimes it's confidence or like. Yeah, I think that's a big part of it.”

There are at least three factors that contributed to his success as a young recruiter:

His humble learning attitude: by observing his father and other seniors “educate” him, he easily learned the tricks of the trade.

His confidence: his drive to succeed gave him the mindset that age is never a differentiating factor

His perspective and mindset: knowing that all men are equal, he treats everyone the same. How he would treat a CEO is how he would also treat a janitor.

Building a Stream of Referrals Through Relentless Follow-Ups 

Another stunning fact: Brandon and his team built a $5.5m business almost entirely by referrals. 

All recruiters and recruitment business owners aim to deliver their best to clients and candidates to build a stream of referrals. Brandon's strategy is heavily reliant on relentless follow-ups.

What exactly does this mean?

Consistency over intensity: It’s not about hounding people, but staying top-of-mind over a long period.

Genuine care: The intent is to show real interest in people’s well-being, not just to chase business.

Long-term mindset: Understand that value and referrals can take years to come to fruition.

Controlled intensity: Stay focused, don’t obsess over results—just stay consistent with outreach.

Relationship-first approach: Business follows when trust and familiarity are built.

Brandon shared a pragmatic approach that they use to execute the above, such as using different contact options (email, text, phone calls), tracking systems, segmented contact lists, MPCs, and others. He also emphasized the importance of adding value to the community by doing acts of goodwill, such as reviewing resumes and committing to it regularly.

Showing Resilience - 2008 Recession & 2023 Tech Downturn

You will also admire Brandon’s story on how he and his dad dealt with the 2008 recession. He was just starting as a recruiter back then, and when they lost their biggest client (AIG), he started making cold calls: 

“He ended up effectively losing that client. And it's now this summer before I'm going back to school. He buys me a book of computer executive contact info. So this is again, pre-Zoom info, like true cold calling from a book. So I'm doing a hundred cold calls. I have my little cold call script, 19 or 20 at this time, and I start landing us business. It was pretty cool. Like, looking back on it at the time, I didn't know what the heck I was doing, but it was working.”

The same approach worked in 2023, during the tech downturn when Brandon and his team had to up their outbound business development. Brandon elaborated on four action points:

Diversifying into new industries.

Focusing on relevant and personalized outreaches.

Testing multiple business development tactics, and

Building a repeatable, scalable process.

He also shared their tech stacks and how they are using them not to automate outreaches, but rather to personalize them.

Indeed, a recruiter’s resilient mindset is the key to remaining relevant and successful in a market where nothing can be certain.

Brandon Glyck Bio and Contact Info

CEO at Quantum Search Partners, where I lead a passionate and talented team of tech and executive recruiters.

Creative, driven, and competitive executive and technology talent leader who is willing to go above and beyond for clients, candidates, and team members. Passionate about affecting the future success and bottom line growth of our clients by connecting them with industry-leading and impactful talent and leadership.

Former college athlete (football) and graduate of Princeton University with a major in Psychology.

Outside of Quantum, I enjoy spending quality time with my family and have personal interests in fitness, performance psychology, travel, and start-up investing.

Brandon on LinkedIn

Quantum Search Partners website link

People and Resources Mentioned

Charlie Saffro on LinkedIn

Brent Orsuga on LinkedIn

Jeremy Jenson on LinkedIn

Crelate

Dripify

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Karolina Willis shares her remarkable journey building Intercare Recruitment from a struggling startup to ta hriving healthcare staffing firm. After relocating from Dubai to the US, she faced rebuilding her business in an unfamiliar market while raising two young children.

Despite reaching a breaking point where she nearly abandoned her entrepreneurial dreams, Karolina implemented strategies that fueled explosive growth in just six months. She reveals how she created unique differentiators that justified retained contracts - employing former nurses as recruiters, offering comprehensive immigration services, and maintaining relentless face-to-face business development even when facing multiple rejections.

This episode offers practical insights for recruitment agency owners looking to scale their businesses through genuine market differentiation and strategic team building across multiple countries.

Karolina is a seasoned recruitment professional with 19 years of experience in the healthcare recruitment industry. As a CEO and Founder at Intercare Recruitment, she specializes in matching top-tier healthcare professionals with leading medical institutions, ensuring that both clients and candidates find the perfect fit.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[01:53] From Poland, the UK, Dubai, and the US - Carolina’s recruitment journey.

[07:27] The mindset that helped Karolina be successful in a short space of time.

[10:16] How to generate candidates by organizing events.

[13:39] The initial challenges of going solo and starting a recruitment business. 

[28:02] Relocating to Florida, relaunching their business, and overcoming a breaking point.

[37:23] How Karolina approached the market differently in the US.

[40:34] Key differentiators as a boutique company.

[46:30] Strategies for growing her team.

[51:59] Overcoming the recruiter paradox - how to identify potential members of your recruitment firm.

[57:35] What would Karolina have done differently when looking back at her career?

Overcoming a Breaking Point and the Challenges of Launching a Boutique Firm

Karolina excelled quickly in her first recruitment role in the UK with the NHS, which became a solid foundation for her when she launched Intercare Recruitment in Dubai. Like many recruiters who aspire to build their business, she faced initial struggles and challenges along the way.

Karolina faced significant challenges when launching her recruitment firm in Dubai. Although finding candidates was relatively easy due to her strong existing network, the complexities of navigating healthcare regulations and business development were major hurdles. Karolina and her husband had to secure clients from scratch. Their strategy involved relentless, in-person business development—visiting hospitals unannounced, persistently requesting meetings with HR directors and CEOs. Despite initial rejections, her research-driven approach, industry connections, and sheer determination eventually led to success, with her 13th hospital visit yielding their first major contract. However, cash flow management became another major struggle, as collecting payments from clients was a slow and challenging process. The legal system in the UAE made it difficult to enforce contracts, ultimately influencing her decision to explore opportunities outside the Middle East.

When she moved to the US, the true breaking point came in 2022 when, after years of working for others, Karolina could no longer ignore her entrepreneurial drive. She had gained the necessary industry knowledge and confidence, but stepping away from the security of a full-time job was a daunting decision, especially as a mother of two young children with a mortgage to maintain. Despite the fear and financial pressure, she knew she had relaunched Intercare. With the unwavering support of her husband, she leaped, marking the start of Intercare’s second chapter in the U.S.

Building Key Differentiators as a Boutique Firm

I wanted to focus on Intercare Recruitment's unique approach to providing the best solutions for its clients. Their service offering is retained and involves recruiting nurses internationally. 

“So what I call ourselves, we are kind of boutique companies, small, quality-focused, concierge type agencies. We really go beyond with our services. We really get on side with our clients.

Here are some of their differentiators:

International Nurse Recruitment Expertise – They have an extensive referral-based network in the Philippines and partnerships with nursing schools, allowing them to source top-tier talent efficiently.

Comprehensive Candidate Support – Unlike most agencies, they assist candidates beyond job placement, handling immigration, flights, onboarding, Social Security, and even driving licenses to ensure a smooth transition.

Nurse-Led Recruitment Team – Their recruiters are former nurses, which helps build trust with candidates and ensures a deeper understanding of the industry’s needs.

Retained, Upfront Payment Model – Instead of working on contingency, Intercare secures exclusive, retained contracts where clients pay upfront, covering immigration costs and reducing hiring risks.

Extended Guarantee Period – They offer a 12-month guarantee, which is longer than industry standards, ensuring clients have long-term confidence in their hires.

End-to-End Immigration Management – They fully integrate legal and immigration services into their process, partnering with immigration attorneys to handle all necessary paperwork.

What are your key differentiators as a recruitment firm? How do you stand out from the competition? The key to getting retained clients is to show a unique solution that solves your client’s problems that they can’t get anywhere else.

Overcoming the Recruiter’s Paradox - Finding the Right Member of Your Team

Karolina shared best practices in her approach to building her team. She has now expanded to 10 members - 5 in the US, 5 in the Philippines. This growth allowed her to grow her revenue from $5K/month to $300K/month in six months! 

What are her key techniques in finding great team members?

“I see people's motivation and ambition rather than skills. You can teach skills, but you cannot teach attitude.” Aside from doing a DISC assessment, they invest time in researching the candidate, from social media, LinkedIn, and conducting three to four steps interviews.

Once the team member gets hired, they focus on empowering and coaching them. Extensive training and tools for recruiters are provided while providing all the support needed for them to succeed. 

Karolina Willis Bio and Contact Info

Karolina Willis is a seasoned recruitment professional with 19 years of experience in the healthcare recruitment industry. As a CEO and Founder at Intercare Recruitment, she specializes in matching top-tier healthcare professionals with leading medical institutions, ensuring that both clients and candidates find the perfect fit.

Karolina launched Intercare Recruitment in 2011, bringing with her a wealth of knowledge and a passion for the healthcare sector. Her deep understanding of the industry's unique challenges and requirements has made her an invaluable asset to the team. She has a proven track record of successfully placing candidates in a wide range of roles, from nursing and allied health positions to senior medical and executive roles.

Karolina's approach to recruitment is characterized by her commitment to building strong, lasting relationships with both clients and candidates. She takes the time to understand the specific needs and aspirations of each party, providing personalized guidance and support throughout the recruitment process. Her meticulous attention to detail and her unwavering dedication to excellence have earned her a reputation for reliability and integrity in the industry.

In addition to her professional achievements, Karolina is known for her leadership and mentoring skills. She plays a key role in training and developing new consultants at Intercare Recruitment, sharing her expertise and fostering a collaborative and supportive work environment.

Karolina holds a Bachelor's degree in Human Resources Management and is a certified Professional in Human Resources (PHR). Outside of work, she is an advocate for mental health awareness and actively participates in community outreach programs aimed at improving healthcare services.

With her extensive experience, deep industry knowledge, and a passion for making a positive impact, Karolina Willis continues to be a driving force behind Intercare Recruitment's success in the competitive healthcare recruitment landscape. 

Married and mother of 2 daughters, 5 and 8 years old. Lives in Greenville, SC.

Karolina on LinkedIn

Intercare Recruitment website link

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Focus is a superpower every recruiter needs, especially in a harsh market with tough competition. How do you keep yourself organized and focused despite multiple expectations that you have to deliver to your clients, candidates, and if you are a business owner, to your team?

Jenny shares the Jenny Diaz Day Plan and how it helps her stay organized and focused every day. She also shares how basic daily tasks help her business navigate this tough market while navigating growth and expansion.

Jenny Diaz entered recruiting in 2015. In late 2021, she, Ryan, and another former colleague, James, founded Apex Recruitment Group, a firm that specializes in construction management recruitment throughout DC, Virginia, and the Carolinas. 

While Jenny has worked in various industries, she has focused on construction management for the last several years. Through her recruitment career, Jenny has had the opportunity to participate in relevant non-profits that make the tough days in recruitment easier. She is currently the Vice President of one such organization, Career Confidence.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[03:31] How Jenny got into recruiting from studying Hebrew, traveling, car washing, and working on a dude ranch.

[12:29] Discussion on “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”

[17:25] Launching Apex Recruitment Group and overcoming initial hurdles.

[23:19] The added value of meeting people in person.

[27:39] What is it like being married to your business partner?

[30:09] Keys to getting her first million.

[33:10] Going through challenges and things they would have done differently.

[43:34] Jenny shares their growth plans.

[48:03] Zooming in on Apex’s business culture.

[54:37] Business development and client acquisition in a tough market.

Jenny’s Day Planning Process

Focus is the super power that recruiters need for sure. Successful business owners and recruiters have a daily hack on how to organize their to do’s and make the most of their days. Jenny is no different, and she gladly shared the “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.” 

“So I have this Microsoft Word doc… I print it out, I take a pencil because the day will change, and I write down whatever's on my Microsoft calendar. I have a list of follow-ups that I'm people I'm going to follow up with. That's usually like five to 30 people depending. I have my three main goals, I have my two jobs. I'm going to work that day if I get it. I have things I'm grateful for, that I've learned.”

To summarize her methodology, here are the takeaways:

Jenny meticulously plans each day using a printed Microsoft Word document with hourly blocks

She writes her plan in pencil to allow for adjustments throughout the day

Her day plan includes follow-ups, main goals, jobs to work, things she's grateful for, and long-term goals

Writing plans physically rather than digitally creates a stronger commitment

The planning process helps combat distractions and provides focus

Jenny maintains this day-planning routine for approximately 90% of her workdays

Do you have a similar approach to being focused and organized?

Going Through Setbacks and Valuable Lessons Learned

Like all business owners, Jenny and his team have had a few setbacks that can be considered teachable moments. 2023 was a challenging year for them as they expanded too quickly into new geographies while the market was getting softer. They also hired four additional people, which created financial pressure and eventually forced them to scale back after the overexpansion.

Jenny shared critical learnings and adjustments they had to take to avoid reoccurrence. They learned the importance of tracking KPIs over different time periods (weekly, monthly, quarterly).

“So one thing I have done this year, just with the team member I'm working with, and he probably hates it, but I'm telling him, listen, every week you're going to fill out this form and you know it's more than just KPIs.”

They also used color-coding systems to track performance patterns.

“This is what we're doing. Are they green, yellow, or red? I actually have them. I have them, Mark, green, yellow, or red? And you know, if last week was all red, but you're trailing six months are green. Like, let's get back at it if it's all red for six months. Well, this is a story, right?”

Lastly, Jenny appreciates how partnership was crucial during tough times as partners talked each other ‘off the ledge’.

“But I think the partnership was really helpful in that because we could look around and say, no, get back. Like, come back. Like, we've all been there. You're gonna get over it. You're gonna have a great month soon. I don't know when it is, but like just get back at it.”

Business Development and Client Acquisition Tactics in a Tough Market

I also enjoyed the part of our interview where Jenny emphasized the importance of getting back to the basics on business development in a tough market.

“But it's, it's the basics. I think we are still big on cold calls. We do business development calls that are cold. We try to do a little bit. I try to do a little bit on LinkedIn or a lot, as much as I can.”

Their business development tactics include:

Cold calls - the team targets 50 meaningful connections per week.

LinkedIn Engagement

Database management.

Jenny Diaz Bio and Contact Info

Jenny has partnered with firms of all sizes to successfully recruit entry-level professionals to C-level executives. Since 2017, she has focused on engaging construction management talent in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast. She stumbled into recruitment through seemingly unrelated experiences that began with working and studying in Russia and Israel and then ended on a dude ranch outside of Yellowstone. She has learned that the people you meet along the way are anything but chance encounters.

Jenny on LinkedIn

Apex Recruitment Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

Guerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 3.0 by David Perry

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Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin, co-founders of DG Recruitment, share tactical insights to help recruiters achieve top biller status in today's competitive landscape. 

Their rec-to-rec agency has given them unique visibility into what separates elite performers from the rest.

"To succeed in sales, you need to understand that everyone is extremely focused on their own needs," explains Dandan. "And hiring managers' primary need is that they suffer when it comes to hiring."

This episode dives into three game-changing strategies: maintaining robust client pipelines beyond just a few accounts, making strategic relationship investments with measurable long-term ROI, and perfecting the MPC approach to immediately capture hiring managers' attention.

With Dandan’s background as a top-performing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace's 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, they offer a powerful perspective on building sustainable success in agency recruitment.

Episode Outline and Highlights

[01:28] How Dandan and Grace started working together.

[04:00] Insights on what is currently happening in the recruitment space.

[06:40] What do top billers do consistently?

[15:06] The ROI of thinking big and going the extra mile.

[20:37] The concept of the “Golden Loop.”

[27:26] What an MPC strategy blueprint should look like.

[33:30] The value of adapting to rapid changes in market and technology.

[37:22] How to learn more from Dandan and Grace’s online platforms.

Top Billers Never Stop Building Client Pipelines

While many recruiters became comfortable with just a few accounts during good times, Dandan Zhu observes these recruiters were "scrambling" when markets changed. To maintain a robust pipeline, top billers consistently build relationships through webinars, panels, and content creation.

Dandan questions why more recruiters don't implement proven strategies: "Go out and set up a webinar for your network, for your niche. Go and set up a panel and invite your clients to be part of that as a BD tool." He notes that "all the playbook is there" but few recruiters convert theory into practice.

Grace adds that success comes from "who is willing to go one to two steps deeper than everyone else" with investments that might take "six to eight months to really start getting there." These consistent efforts ensure you'll never be left claiming "nobody's paying fees" during downturns while competitors continue closing deals.

The Long-Term ROI of Strategic Relationship Investment

DG Recruitment hosts rooftop events and specialized gatherings like pottery painting sessions targeted to client demographics. Though measuring immediate return is challenging, Grace notes these investments create "much higher odds of placing candidates" and develop "closer relationships with more trust."

"That year I met that person, two years later, that became a placement." Dandan explains their events were specifically designed for their target audience - "middle-aged women with kids in the Jersey pharma belt" for pottery painting, and New York recruiters for rooftop gatherings.

These strategic relationship investments help recruiters stand out in an industry with reputation challenges. Grace observes it's "very easy to do better" than competitors by "just doing a couple things differently." While others focus on transactions, this approach builds a foundation of trust leading to higher placement odds, client loyalty, and valuable referrals.

MPC Strategy: Skip the Intro and Sell Your Talent

Most recruiters waste time on company introductions when contacting hiring managers. Dandan recommends a more effective approach: "Sell the NPC right away. Boom, boom." This direct method recognizes that hiring managers prioritize solving their problems over hearing about your firm.

Hiring managers focus primarily on addressing their own challenges. A refined approach that immediately demonstrates candidate value shows respect for their time while positioning you as a solutions provider. Dandan emphasizes creating compelling candidate profiles with a confident, engaging tone instead of a nervous or disinterested delivery.

In today's competitive landscape, the first few seconds determine client engagement. Leading with immediate value helps bypass typical screening filters, significantly increasing your chances of meaningful engagement and placement success.

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

TRR #110 - Why Top Billers Don’t Want to Join Your Recruitment Agency

Dandan Zhu Bio and Contact Info

Dandan Zhu launched her agency recruitment career at the age of 23, quickly excelling as a full-desk headhunter specializing in a technical niche and eventually executive search for the pharmaceutical and life sciences industry. 

Through high commissions, obsessive saving, and aggressive investing, a method she calls “The Millionaire Trifecta”, Dandan achieved financial independence by 28, transitioning into full-time entrepreneurship.

She is the founder of DG Recruit (est. 2018), a leading R2R (recruiter-to-recruiter) firm serving top billers and recruitment agencies, and Agency Recruitment Academy (est. 2024), where she provides training and guidance to senior producers and recruitment leaders.

Dandan is also the author of Agency Recruitment 101, a comprehensive guide offering insights into the recruitment business model, commission structures, and industry best practices. She hosts the DG Recruit Podcast featuring top voices in the recruitment industry and showcasing top sales and recruitment strategies and tactics.

An active speaker and trainer, Dandan collaborates with go-getters and leaders in the recruitment industry to elevate their skills and results. Her mission is to share the knowledge she gained as a headhunter, sales leader, and entrepreneur, empowering others to achieve financial, career, and life success.

Dandan on LinkedIn

Dandan on Instagram

Dandan on Twitter @dandanzhudg

Grace Marlin Bio and Contact Info

Grace has been servicing the agency recruitment industry for the past 6.5 years as the Co-Founder of DG Recruit, a US-based agency-to-agency rec2rec firm.

Throughout Grace's time in the industry, she has helped launch, elevate, and track the careers of top performing recruitment and staffing sales professionals which has provided her a keen vantage point to understand what it takes to be a successful agency recruitment professional. She is passionate about the unique earning potential and autonomy that comes from a successful career in the industry, so she solely focuses on the agency side, NOT HR/internal recruiting/TA roles.

Grace routinely shares industry-related content on LinkedIn and is a champion for leveraging social media marketing as a cornerstone of your recruitment practice since it's still an underutilized tool for current and aspiring top billers.

In addition to her work at DG Recruit, she co-founded Recruiter Prep which offers an "Intro to Agency Recruitment Course" that teaches aspiring agency recruiters everything they know to break into the industry with the highest probability of having a successful first year.

Grace on LinkedIn

DG Recruit website link

DG Recruit Podcast link 

DG Recruit on Facebook

DG Recruit on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini

Connect with Mark Whitby

Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

Mark on LinkedIn

Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

Mark on Facebook

Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Imagine building a recruitment firm where every placement creates an actual positive impact. That’s exactly what Leo Hewett did with Core3 — and this is how he made it happen.

After over a decade of experience working for large corporates up to Director level, Leo decided to take the plunge and launch his own ethical recruitment business, Core3 -specialising in Finance & Accounting talent. 

Alongside their B Corp certification, Core3 are proud to have won multiple awards since launching in 2022, including REC's 'Start up of the year' (2023), and Business Leader's 'Business of the Year' (2024).

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [03:23] The story on how Leo’s mom inspired him to give back to the community through recruitment.

• [08:43] What inspired Leo to launch Core3?

• [15:30] A purpose-driven recruitment firm: how Leo set up their organization differently.

• [28:33] How making a difference can easily attract talents.

• [30:39] Highlights and challenges in Core3’s growth journey.

• [34:59] Strategies on reactivating past clients.

• [37:15] ROI from building a personal brand on LinkedIn.

• [40:41] The practicality of following through with a voice note after a LinkedIn connection or engagement.

• [43:10] Developing an inner-circle community to add value.

• [51:50] Bringing in experienced hires in your team.

• [57:15] Overcoming two setbacks when scaling: Culture & Cashflow.

• [1:05:31] Most meaningful metrics Leo and his team focus on.

Building a Purpose-Driven Recruitment Firm

Leo reached director level at Robert Half and was detached from billing for years. During the COVID-19 pandemic, he led his team on hands-on recruitment and rediscovered that he still enjoys doing it. With an unexpected inheritance, he built a financial buffer which helped him establish Core3. He established his business in a way that is very much different from most recruiting firms: by being B-Corp Certified!

B-Corp certification acts as a "fair trade" equivalent for businesses, signaling that Core3 is committed to high ethical standards and strong ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) credentials. Core3’s decision to pursue B-Corp certification was driven by a desire to embed impact into the business model and stay accountable to ethical standards. The certification also enhanced its attractiveness to stakeholders who value purpose-driven businesses.

“The values are more than words written on a wall and people love the culture and work I'm working here. But it's, it's different because you can feel it every single day. Because we've given 3% of revenue to these three good causes that we support. Every consultant feels it with every placement. The client, after every placement, gets a menu of which charity they would like to choose where that 3% of this placement will go,” explained Leo.

Another way that Core3 engages with its community is by building inner-circle groups.

Adding Value Through Inner-Circle Groups

Leo and his team have strategically built value-driven communities to foster meaningful conversations among finance professionals. The approach began with the Conscious Finance podcast, which explored finance’s role in meaningful change. As the podcast gained traction, clients expressed interest in deeper discussions, leading to the creation of roundtable events. These roundtables bring like-minded professionals together to discuss shared challenges in an open, collaborative environment. There are challenges in hosting events for these inner circles, such as resource, time, and event costs. However, Leo shared the benefits in adding value to your niche community by developing these inner circles:

• Stronger Client Relationships – Moves Core3 beyond transactional interactions, making them a trusted partner rather than just another recruiter.

• Enhanced Brand Authority – Hosting and facilitating discussions positions Core3 as thought leaders within the industry.

• Exclusive Networking Opportunities – Clients benefit from valuable peer discussions and insights, making them more likely to stay engaged with Core3.

• Self-Sustaining Communities – With ongoing engagement via messaging platforms, these groups create lasting professional connections beyond Core3’s direct involvement.

• Business Growth & Differentiation – Unlike traditional recruiters focused solely on job placements, Core3 creates a deeper, more meaningful engagement model that attracts both talent and businesses.

By fostering these high-value, non-sales-driven communities, Core3 successfully differentiates itself from competitors and creates lasting relationships with finance professionals.

The Challenges of Scaling Your Business

Another topic that I can relate to is how Leo dealt with two main challenges when scaling his business. He shared the two main areas where he struggled: culture and cash flow.

For culture, defining and embedding a strong culture was difficult in the early stages. Lack of clear values and behavioral expectations made it hard to create a positive and cohesive environment. To overcome it, Leo did the following:

• Setting Clear Standards from the Start

• Involving the Team in Defining Culture

• Hiring the Right People

In terms of cash flow, Leo’s corporate background did not give him solid exposure in managing cash-flow directly. Although his business was thriving in its first year, the geopolitical situation in Ukraine and Russia affected his business, leading to a 6-month loss-making.

To overcome this, Leo implemented action points such as:

• Increased Accountability and Visibility: The team collectively committed to improving processes, tracking performance, and holding each other accountable.

• Shift from Inputs to Outputs: Rather than focusing on meaningless KPIs (e.g., "how many calls did you make today?"), they focused on more meaningful metrics like conversion ratios and actual results.

• Implemented OKRs (Objectives and Key Results): This allowed the team to focus on high-impact goals and measurable outcomes, rather than just activity.

• Strengthened Team Collaboration: The team took ownership of the problem and worked collectively to improve performance and cash flow.

Core3 survived the six-month loss-making period without losing a single team member.

Leo Hewett Bio and Contact Info

After over a decade of experience working for large corporates up to Director level, Leo decided to take the plunge and launch his own ethical recruitment business, Core3 -specialising in Finance & Accounting talent. 

He believes that business has a bigger role to play in society than just making a profit. Being future-conscious and aware of how our actions affect people and the planet is more important now than it ever has been. 

This is why Core3's purpose is to pioneer the ‘Conscious Recruitment’ mindset; putting people, planet and progress first. Pledging 3% of sales to their local community and the environment. 

Alongside their B Corp certification, Core3 are proud to have won multiple awards since launching in 2022, including REC's 'Start up of the year' (2023), and Business Leader's 'Business of the Year' (2024).

• Leo on LinkedIn

• Core3 website link

• The Conscious Finance Podcast links

• Core3 on Facebook

• Core3 on Instagram

• Core3 on X

• Core3 on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Start With Why by Simon Sinek

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call

• Mark on LinkedIn

• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby

• Mark on Facebook

• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.