In this episode, we have a roundtable discussion of spiritual issues with educator Carla Burns. In Part I, we talk about how to slow down and make the ’space’ to hold complexity in our society. In Part II, we discuss the film The Martian and what it has to say about humanity and humanity’s needs. And in Part III, we explore the idea of our planet’s consciousness and how it is expressed today.


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In this episode, Netanel plays hooky, and Daniel is joined by Deepa Patel, a teacher of Inayati Sufism, partner of the Charis Foundation, and recurring guest, to share poems close to each of their hearts.

In the course of reading and reflecting on the poems listed below, they explore coping with harrowing world events, honoring the preciousness of lost lives, unity consciousness as a reservoir of strength, being lifted out of impotence, the action of stillness, the 'hard work' and courage of becoming oneself, the mental prisons in which we trap ourselves, singing our unique 'song,' the power of poetry, embracing the all-possible, following the seed of our longing, the 'cookie-cutter nature' of Capitalism vs. the revolution of individuality, the silence between words, the purifying effect of our authenticity being challenged, humility and inspiration in the face of great practitioners, and how all 'rays bow before the Sun.' 

List of Poems Read:

ON ANOTHER PANEL ABOUT CLIMATE, THEY ASK ME TO SELL THE FUTURE AND ALL I’VE GOT IS A LOVE POEM — Ayisha Siddiqa

The Scripture of The Golden Eternity [Verses 64-66] — Jack Kerouac

Now I Become Myself — May Sarton

Untitled — Patrizia Cavalli (Tr. Geoffrey Brock)

Go to the Limits of Your Longing — Ranier Maria Rilke

The Imposter — Shaykh Ahmad Al-Alawi (Tr. Martin Lings)


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The Venerable Dr. Pannavati Bhikkuni is the founder of Heartwood Refuge, an intentional spiritual community in North Carolina, and abbess of Embracing Simplicity Hermitage, a 21st century trans-lineage Buddhist Order. A former Christian pastor, the Venerable Pannavati is often thought to be the only fully-ordained African-American woman in the Theravada tradition of Buddhism. She is also ordained in the Mahayana tradition and has Vajrayana empowerments and authorization to teach.

In this episode, we explore the Venerable Pannavati’s journey from Evangelical Christianity to a trans-lineage Buddhism, discussing the methods of transformation of consciousness, simple and complex religious perspectives, the serving of different needs and capacities on the spiritual path, a ‘relational’ and ‘American Buddhism,’ trans-lineage Buddhism, syncretism and a Ri-me approach to ecumenism, sectarianism in Buddhism, the ordination of Theravadan Buddhist nuns, legacy and leaving no footprints, new inter spiritual language, and the ‘Dharma Gospel’ of Dharma Voci.

Heartwood Refuge & Academy

Dharma Voci's Album: Invocation

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In this episode, we do a retrospective on a dialogue that took place in 1974 during the first summer session of the Naropa Institute in Boulder, Colorado. The dialogue was called “Psychology East and West” and explored a number of differences in understanding and approach to the notion of ego between so-called “Western psychology” and what were then thought of as “Eastern” spiritual traditions. The participants included the well-known spiritual teachers, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche and Ram Dass, as well as the co-founder and Vice-President of Naropa, John Baker, and the therapist, Jim Green. The dialogue was moderated by Duncan Campbell.

The full dialogue can be heard on the Ram Dass — Here and Now podcast: Ep. 112, The Notion of Ego with Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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In this episode, we have a roundtable discussion of spiritual issues with psychotherapist, Lisa Chatham. In Part I, we talk about the complex legacies of brilliant spiritual teachers, like Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, who are associated with inappropriate behavior or scandals. In Part II, we explore the spirituality of our most distant past in European and Middle-Eastern cave art and artifacts, and the spiritual futurism and metaphor of Star Wars. In Part III, we discuss the role and importance of technology in our lives and how we can deal with it spiritually.

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Born in Aotearoa (New Zealand), Grandmother Arapata is a healer who holds the indigenous lineages of both the Maori and Samoan ancestral bloodlines.

In this episode we talk about Grandmother Arapata’s upbringing with traditional teachings, the stigmas of colonization, the different challenges of indigenous peoples in the United States and New Zealand, reclaiming lost traditions, trusting chaos and intuition, working with the womb and generational pain (in the seen and unseen worlds), as well as injuries from power and greed. We also discuss appropriation and cultural reclamation among colonizing peoples, treating the whole being,  the necessity of play and joy for re-rooting, working with men, 'whiteness' and the white-washing of culture and indigeneity, learning from and giving to our ancestors, the relationship of creativity to healing, and the necessity of pain in healing.

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Nataraja Kallio is a scholar-practitioner of Yoga and Hindu tantra. He is the Chair of the B.A. Yoga Studies program at Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado, and the co-designer of Naropa’s M.A. Yoga Studies program.

In this episode, we discuss Kallio’s upbringing in an American Hindu spiritual community, his travels in India and meetings with his guru, the origins of Hindu tantra (utilizing “the fecund material of our existence”), the spectrum of tantric deities, the transformation of intense emotions to crack the shell of identity, the pros and cons of asceticism, desire, the story of Shankaracharya and the exploration of the flesh, the story of Shiva and the forest ascetics, authentic and inauthentic tantra, neo-tantra and the western obsession with sex, cultural appropriation, epicureanism and sacralization, the ‘tantric’ dimension of all religions, and the treasure of spiritual friendship.

Nataraja Kallio

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Lily Fangz is a respected Colorado-based hip-hop artist and freestyle performer, who  brings an authentic presence to the stage. Her lyrics are playful, introspective, and often spiritually-oriented. Lily is also a talented visual artist and public speaker with a background in science.

In this episode, we explore the connections between public artistic performance and spiritual teaching, how each may be responsive to the ‘living moment’ and draw on an unseen source. We also discuss art and ritual, tuning oneself or others to the right ‘frequency,’ training and performance, connecting to the body, ‘subversive spirituality,’ self-purifying inspiration, trust and curiosity, true vocation, facing our fears, and becoming comfortable with the unknown and mystery.

Instagram: Lily Fangz

Bandcamp: Lily Fangz

TED Talk by Lily Fangz

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Rabbi Or N. Rose is a scholar of Hasidism and Neo-Hasidism who is deeply involved in interreligious dialogue. He is the Director of the Miller Center for Interreligious Learning and Leadership at Hebrew College in Newton Centre, Massachusetts, and co-editor of Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi: Essential Teachings.

In this episode, we explore Rabbi Rose’s interest in interreligious understanding, the distinction between interreligious dialogue and ‘deep ecumenism,’ ideals and reality in dialogue, and the dialogue of the head, heart, and hands. We then turn to the relationships between Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi and the Reverend Howard Thurman and Father Thomas Merton. We also explore the origins of Hasidism and Neo-Hasidism, what it means to be a Neo-Hasid from a personal perspective, the spiritual practices of Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, and the tension between universalism and particularism in Judaism.

Miller Center for Interreligous Learning & Leadership at Hebrew College

With Head and Heart: The Autobiography of Howard Thurman

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In this episode, we have a roundtable discussion of spiritual issues with our friend, Deepa Patel. In Part I, we explore the question of what it means to take a vow of silence in our world, and talk about the value and meaning of silence. In Part II, we talk about the difficulty of changing ourselves or anyone else when we are not necessarily vulnerable to change. And in Part III, we dig into the problems of living a spiritual life ‘in the world’ amid the concerns of work and paying bills, not to mention the corrupting influences of capitalism.

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