So, a while ago on our homepage, and in our header, and basically everywhere on our website, we put a little tagline below our logo. That tagline says, an API company. So if you go to nomics.com it says Nomics an API company. And I think this is really important for us to kind of state what our focus is. I see a lot of companies that are distracted, especially during bear markets, especially in the crypto space during bear markets. [00:00:30] And they're just doing a lot of things simultaneously hoping that one of those things will work. It's like the lottery ticket strategy. Maybe if they just do everything all at once, one of those things will work. And for us, we're an API first company. So I wanted to describe it kind of to me what it means that we're an API first company. The first is, that [00:01:00] we must dog food our own API. So if you go to nomics.com everything there is built with our API, and it's built with public endpoints, or paid private endpoints. But we don't access our data in any way other way other than through that API. There is no backdoor.

So an analogy for a restaurant, if I owned a restaurant, I don't believe, unless there was a hugely important [00:01:30] reason that I can't think of, I don't think I would let people eat at that restaurant by just going into the kitchen if they worked there and grabbing some food. I think I would make them go through the front door, have that experience, wait to get seated with everyone else. Then they would have to sit at a table, and they'd have to see the menu. They'd have to get silverware delivered from the kitchen. And they'd have to experience that restaurant exactly [00:02:00] like everyone else experiences it. So they would have an understanding of what it's like to eat there. Right? If the service is slow, they would experience slow service. It's probably impossible to completely replicate the experience that someone would have if they weren't known by the kitchen staff and the wait staff and all that. But I think I would want them going through the front door, not through the kitchen to eat there. And that's the way I think about our API, right?

We're never going to consume [00:02:30] our data, or our systems in any way other than how the customers access it. And I think that's really important that we're a user of our API. So, what does it mean to be an API first company? Yeah, it means we dog food our own product. We go through the front door, not the back door. The second thing that it means is that our docs are really important. In a lot of ways, our docs are our most important marketing asset. It describes what the product is. It describes what the features are. Describes how they work. [00:03:00] And I think the API companies that treat their docs like the most important marketing materials that they have, I think those are the companies that succeed. So, that's another thing. It's another important part of being an API company. I think a third component of being an API first company is that it is our intent, I hope we do this, we plan on doing this, is open sourcing everything that's not our API. So our website, [00:03:30]

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

Hey, it's me. Hope you're having a fantastic day, wherever you are. Or night, depending upon what part of the world you're in. So I wanted to share some thoughts about the product journey, buildings product, et cetera. I've had a lot of different kinds of experiences getting product feedback, it's really been all over the map. But the one consistent thing, the one consistent [00:00:30] experience I've had around product feedback, is that it is almost always the case that when there is a true market need, that when the market hungry for something, that the feedback you get is kind of hard to read.

I remember, back in the day, I was considering making a product, and I sent out a survey asking people [00:01:00] for what their needs were, what their hopes and fears were with regards to a specific market, and got back hundreds of responses to a survey where I was soliciting feedback, hoping we could build something that would get product market fit. And I really had to kind of get a beer and just kind of sit back on an easy chair and process everything that came in, because it was overwhelming. [00:01:30] There was so much need in this market that a lot of the asks included stores that were kind of sad, or they were from people that were just feeling completely overwhelmed. The responses were from people that just expressed so much need, and in a lot of cases were asking for things to be built that were just impossible to be built, and [00:02:00] it was a lot to process.

And I think in general, as product creators, we often think we want this feedback from the market, and then we get it, and it's kind of hard to deal with. The truth is that most people don't know what they want to see built, right? They only know their problems and they know what other people have built, so often [00:02:30] the feedback you get when you're asking for such feedback is people asking for something to be built that is just like, "Hey, can you build this thing that someone else has built, or something like this, but better?" Or they'll just speak to some outcome they're looking for, like they want to make more money, or they want six pack abs, or kind of the product ... The consumer product categories tend to be ... I put them into three buckets. Getting [00:03:00] paid, getting laid, and not dying, right?

So getting paid, that's around finance, personal finance, savings, career progression. The getting laid category ... I say that facetiously, but that's personal relationships, sex, love, fulfillment. Things like that. And then not dying ... Again, this is all mostly a joke, but ... [00:03:30] or these categories are jokes. But that's around health, fitness, longevity. Things like that. And people just ... they just know the outcomes that they want. They will hardly ever speak to specific features. They will hardly ever just give you something on a silver platter that you can just take in and then directly turn into features. [00:04:00] That's pretty rare.

And then in more enterprise or B2B niches, I think in order to get the kind of feedback you really need, you kind of — in my experience at least — you have to build something for the market to respond to, right? So I think about these three phases of growth, and they are, when it comes to the product, and it is build, iterate [00:04:30]

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

Well, I'm having a pretty good day. My wife came over, and we watched [00:00:30] an episode of The Office which is something we've done. Not The Office, but we've had a show that we've tried to watch that gets our mind out of the day-to-day ever since our daughters were born. I have twin toddlers, two girls. They're amazing, and so's my wife actually. Anyway, she came over. We're on season two of The Office. Man, it's awkward. [00:01:00] Uh, uh, it's awkward and painful. There's no laugh tracks, so there's not a ton of comic relief. I hope it gets funnier. I think it's funny here and there, but it's also kind of sad.

All right. Anyway, that's a habit that my wife and I kind of started after our daughters were born. The first thing we watched was The Golden Girls. We saw every episode of The Golden Girls. What a great show. Man, I love [00:01:30] that show. Maybe my favorite sitcom to date. Yeah, so we'd make an appointment to watch this after the kids went to bed, and sometimes we'd watch it, sometimes we wouldn't, but it was good to have an appointment to get together even if sometimes we didn't want to talk at all and just wanted to veg out and watch the show, or sometimes it was fun to just talk and just reconnect. So, she did that. It's nice to have flexibility as an entrepreneur. [00:02:00] Especially when you're working hard but even if you're not. It's nice to take advantage of that, so we spent a little bit of time together in the middle of the day. 

Today's update is about some open source projects that we're kicking off. We have kicked off in various stages a WordPress plug-in, an IOS app, an Android app, [00:02:30] a Twitter Bot, and a Google Home skill thing. The WordPress plug-in is underway. That's going to be open sourced. Actually, all these are going to be open source because we want to provide really great example code around how to use our API. The WordPress plug-in is kicked off. For the IOS and Android app we've got a proposal from a team that we like, but if you know [00:03:00] anyone who's really fantastic at creating React Native apps that render to IOS and Android, please let us know. We'd love to look at a few different proposals, but we have one that we like, and then the Twitter Bot, the Alexa skill, and the Google Home, I don't even know what those are called, those are still in kind of product planning phases. 

If you have any requests for these, please let me know. We've actually [00:03:30] gotten some really interesting requests around the WordPress plug-in and gotten some great product feedback. But if you've used these kinds of apps before or if you've used apps that are put out by other platforms that do similar things and you have any feature requests, please let me know. I think that there's a lot of room for innovation, and everyone is basically doing different versions of the same thing. [00:04:00]

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

Blog post link

Hey, everyone, welcome to today's Nomics update. It is Martin Luther King Jr. Day and this is one of, in my opinion, one of the most important holidays of the year. I am really glad that at Nomics we take the day off and we observe it. I hope you're having a good day, a restful day for those of you in the United States who have the day off and spending [00:00:30] time with those you care about and reflecting on, hopefully, the importance of the day or at least spending some time with your family. 

Today's update is around a new page that we've launched at nomics.com on the website. It is the Market's page which is currently in Beta, but the Market's page allows you to get data and intelligence [00:01:00] and metrics on specific trading pairs, which I think is important. Most of the time when people are looking at pricing data, at least when consumers are, they're considering the price of a specific asset. For example, they might look up the price of Bitcoin or the price of Ethereum or the price of Minero or Zcash or whatever they're interested in and [00:01:30] that's good to do. That's fine. I look at those prices as well. But it's important to realize that those prices are taken from the prices of trading pairs on given exchanges.

I think I'd say nine times out of 10, maybe 10 times out of 10 when people ask us to add a currency to the website, what they generally say is like when I get an email request, it'll say, "Hey, I'm wondering if you can add [00:02:00] this token to nomics.com or to your API?" The truth is that we don't have tokens to our API. We add exchanges and those exchanges have market data that allow us to price all the assets that are listed on that exchange whether they're the base currency or the quote currency on that exchange. So first off, we don't really list tokens. We might de-list a token [00:02:30] if we think there's some shady activity happening, but at the end, of the day we don't really list tokens. We list exchanges.

Once we add an exchange, we add all the trading pairs from that exchange. And I think most people know, at least in this space, if you're listening to this, you probably know what a trading pair is. An example of a trading pair is Ethereum to BTC. And [00:03:00] actually, I am going to get into this before I speak too much, before I say more about what's on our new markets page, so we had an exchange and then we add the trading pairs on that exchange. An example of a trading periods Ethereum to BTC. 

Generally, when these trading pairs are listed, the base currency comes first and the quote currency comes next. I think most people vaguely [00:03:30] know what a base currency and a quote currency are. I don't know that the average person that comes to our website actually or websites like ours, know what a base currency and a quote currency are. But if you've gone to a cryptocurrency exchange or a Forex exchange, you generally see these trading pairs. The first currency, which is the base currency, it is the item that is being priced, right. So [00:04:00] let's take Ethereum into BTC. In this scenario, Ethereum is the base currency and it is being priced in the quote currency. So for example, if you see Ethereum to BTC is priced at .033 it means that the price [00:04:30]

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

Here's the full blog post with more details.

Links Mentioned In This Episode

All right, so this is going to be a mini course. The title of this is, almost everything I know about startup HR. I'd like to think though that I know a lot more than just what's in here, right? There's lots of nuance, but at the end of the day, the documents that I'm going to share really have the core of my belief system around this stuff. I'm going to spare you the philosophy upfront, [00:00:30] I think a lot of the philosophy is embedded or sort of the big concepts are driving ideas are embedded in these documents, and we can discuss them as we're reviewing the documents that I'm about to share in this mini course. It feels a little pretentious calling this a mini course, but I'm trying to speak to the value that I believe is being conveyed here. 

So, I guess the only bit of philosophy I'll share with you [00:01:00] is that in my experience, almost all success in business is really due to what you're working on and who you're working on it with. And then, in last place is how hard you're working. But because you can control all those three, you know, all three of those things, you should probably work hard. That's not an excuse to not work hard, although, you know, be considerate [00:01:30] of your family and your priorities, right? So, I've got five documents here that I'm going to review that speak to our standard operating procedure at Nomics and these documents have been created as a result of some good lessons, but also some really hard lessons. I guess those things aren't mutually exclusive, but let's start with [00:02:00] this first document. 

And again, I think I'll just say here, there's an additional side note that I think everyone thinks that startups or businesses is about having brilliant ideas, and working really hard against those ideas, but it's at the end of the day, it really just comes down to recruiting and that's what you're working on in your ability to recruit, and then after you've recruited the ability to be disciplined about [00:02:30] hiring and firing, and not having org chart debt, right? Everyone talks about tech debt, but I think org chart debt is also really important. And, yeah, there is an interview with a woman named Patty McCord who wrote a book called Powerful and she's an HR consultant, but she also used to run HR for [inaudible 00:02:56]

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

I've had this new experience since being in this world, this financial world, dealing with hedge funds and exchanges and other folks who are customers, and it's really around product and the commercial contract and the role that the commercial contract plays in [00:00:30] the product. In the past, so much of the product or a huge part of the product, most of the product, the vast majority of a product that was sold, almost all of it, almost all of it was about the software and what you see on the screen, and I'd never worked with a commercial contracts attorney, going [00:01:00] back and forth with red lines on the particulars of an engagement that a customer might have with us.

I was in the MarTech space, vertical SaaS. People would come to the website, they'd find what they wanted to buy, they'd click the purchase button, and that was it. You'd have terms of service, and they'd either buy it and agree to the terms of service by buying, or they wouldn't. There wouldn't be all this back and forth with attorneys. 

[00:01:30] A new experience that I'm having in the financial world is just how much of the product and what you're charging for is the contract itself, the legal arrangement that you have with the person on the other end of the line. Often, a business might come to you, or I'll just describe an experience I had. 

A business came to me. They wanted [00:02:00] essentially a version of the product that we had posted on our website at nomics.com, but they wanted a bunch of stipulations in there around confidentiality, guarantees, SLAs, uptime, response time, indemnification, liability, etc., [00:02:30] and we had to charge a lot more for it, and one of the reasons why we had to charge a lot more for it is because we had to pay a damn attorney. Actually, I really like our commercial contracts attorney, but before this whole experience, I'd never even heard the term commercial contracts attorney. I didn't know that was ... I thought you just went to whoever your corporate attorney was, and they jimmied up a contract for you and things would mostly work, but now this is a thing that we do, [00:03:00] and you have to charge more because you have to pay an attorney, but also because you have to spend a whole bunch of your time going back and forth on the particulars of the agreement, and also because when you're doing B2B sales, especially in the financial world, it's just important to consider how much of the value of what you're providing comes through various guarantees and assumptions of liability, [00:03:30] etc. 

It's hard to calculate sometimes what's being given and what's being taken, especially if you're not very experienced. It's really hard to find research on what the price points are associated with pretty niche deals where there isn't a lot of market information or means for price discovery out there around the cost. 

When I think about an [00:04:00] offer in vertical SaaS where people just go to a website and buy something, I think about an offer consisting of price. How much does it cost? What are the guarantees? Do you have a 30-day money back guarantee or something like that? What is the timeframe? Is it a monthly plan? Is it a quarterly plan? Is it a yearly plan? Are there any bonuses that you're providing when someone purchases? Maybe [00:04:30]...

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

Hey there. This is episode 29. Holy crap, this is a real thing. This podcast seems to be going pretty well. Every week or so, listens are roughly doubling so I know people are listening to this. But I haven't gotten a lot of feedback yet, really. Someone did send me a message the other day, let's see, let's [00:00:30] see what did they say here? "I'm trying to use fewer messaging apps, but your personal podcast is effing phenomenal. I listen to all of them and it's really helpful, helps me reflect on problems critically." 

Yeah, so it was a really nice message and my mom told me that she listened to this and a few other people have told me that they listen to this podcast. People seem a little, it's really odd, folks seem a little reluctant to tell me that they listen to this, almost as if they're listening to this to [00:01:00] kind of spy on my personal life but they don't want to tell me. It's cool to tell me, I do this so you can listen.

Anyway, I just wanted to ask for your feedback. It's kind of interesting, with the Flippening podcast, when it had roughly the same number of listeners, it actually wasn't growing as fast as this podcast but I got a ton of feedback. This podcast, not a ton of feedback but the listener base [00:01:30] is growing faster, so I don't know what that means. It's really interesting. I think sometimes you publish content and you just get different kinds of reactions. Some content you publish can get you a lot of sales, but then you don't get a lot of comments. Other times you publish a podcast or blog post or whatever, you release something in the world, and you get lots of comments or shares but no one buys. Sometimes you don't get [00:02:00] any interest at all and that's bad. Sometimes you'll get a lot of shares but not a lot of comments and it doesn't result in a lot of purchases or conversions against your funnel. It's really bizarre the way content works and the way people respond to different kinds of content.

Not sure what's happening with this. I think, you know I don't know, I wonder if it's just that investors are listening to this and families listening to this and competitors [00:02:30] are listening to this and no one wants to tell me that they're listening. Or customers are ... Anyway, I've enjoyed making this content. It's fun. There's a lot of tedious stuff I do. I would curse but I don't want to do post-production. So there's a lot of tedious stuff I do, and this is a cool place to just share with you our progress and I know our team company listen, or some people on the team listen to this. I don't know that Nick does. [00:03:00] I don't know that my co-founder does. 

If you do listen to this and some parts have been helpful and other parts haven't, I am desperate for feedback. Again, it's really this odd experience where the podcast just continues to grow and people are silent. So I guess I should just take that. Maybe I'll just look at the analytics. [00:03:30] Sometimes I'll post a post and there will be a ton of listens, and other ones there won't be a lot of listens and I can see when things get shared, so I'll just look at my metrics to get feedback from you. But that's not qualitative, come on.

Anyway, if you do have feedback let me know. If not, I guess given the growth of this show or whatever we want to call it ...

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

So today's entry is a bit of a rant, and it's really around an email that I get pretty often. Especially when we do things that start getting a little bit of public attention. I often get an email from a VC, that essentially says, "Hey, I'm from such and such VC firm. I'd really like to hop on the phone [00:00:30] and learn a little bit more about your business." These emails really get me ... First off, yeah, it's great that they say something complimentary about the business, but they literally offer nothing in exchange for hopping on the phone and often, as I found the hard way, having to educate them on the industry, educate them on the business model.

Then they start asking questions where they're [00:01:00] critiquing our business model, asking who our big customers are and in these situations, when I've taken these calls, and I've only taken them a couple of times and not in this business, not at Nomics, they're essentially just trying to pump you for information about your business because they want to make sure that they don't miss out on the opportunity to invest in a great company. And almost [00:01:30] never, almost never on these calls ... and again, take it into consideration that I've only done a couple of these, do they provide any value in exchange, right. They just want to hear you and I think this works potentially on some entrepreneurs. I mean like, it must work on some level, which is why they do it.

But often it's ... on the other end of those phone calls, is just an analyst [00:02:00] who's filling out a spreadsheet about companies in your space. That's probably the most benign version. The most malicious version is that there's a VC that is considering investing in a company that's competitive with yours and they're trying to get as much information as they can about competitive companies before making the investment that they really want to make, which is in [00:02:30] your business enemy or whatever, at least a competitor. And so now, after they've invested in that competitor, they can tell the competitor all the information that they have about you. I can't tell you the number of times that someone has sent to me, a pitch deck from a competitive business that contains details about a business that's competing with mine.

And that man, that is not cool, [00:03:00] in my opinion, that people are just sharing pitch decks left and right, in that fashion. I guess my advice here to VCs if you're listening to this ... so to VCs or analysts that are doing these calls, my advice is, really get to know the business and offer some kind of exchange of value. [00:03:30] Don't just say, "Hey, I'd love to learn more." Like why? Why should I tell you more about the business? So offer and consider why an entrepreneur, who doesn't have much time at all, why should they spend an hour with you, telling you about ... educating you on this space and giving you the inside track? Can you offer something in exchange? To entrepreneurs, I guess I have a few pieces of advice. The first is, in general, [00:04:00] don't do these calls with analysts or associates.

Just never do these calls with analysts of associates, only do these with partners and you know when I've asked for that in the past. Someone will write in like, "Hey, we really love what you're doing, we'd love to learn more." Okay, I've asked to speak with a partner on the phone, I was like, "Okay, I'll do it with a partner."

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

All right, this podcast episode is going to be called Almost Everything I Know About Working With Recruits.

So I think in the past definitely, definitely one of the biggest mistakes I've made is not paying the best recruiter I can as much as we can afford for the state of the company [00:00:30] to make key hire, to help us with with key hires. It's been my, it's kind of the mythology of the startup space that you can hire everyone on your own and that you should not hire recruiters. So there's a couple instances where this is actually a bad idea and where folks are making a mistake by not hiring recruiters. 

The first is when they just don't have a lot of time to do the quality of search that they need to do and the thoroughness [00:01:00] of the search that they need to do. When you have a startup, you have a lot of things on your plate and a good recruiting process can take just a ton of time over the course of sometimes six months or even longer for a very niche hire or for a very kind of critical hire that needs a multifaceted skillset. 

So like I said in the past, I've just kind of put out the job offer, [00:01:30] hit up people in my network, tweeted something and left things to chance and I think that resulted in a couple things. One, when you do that, it can sometimes take a lot longer to make the hire than it should take and there's the opportunity cost associated with everything that a hire would've done, an employee would have done during the the extra three or six months when [00:02:00] you would have had them on board if you had gone with a recruiter.

I think the second mistake is that when you don't go with a world class recruiter, at least a recruiter who's capable of hiring a world class person into your position, you can sometimes just not be dealing with the best possible candidate or candidate pool when you go to hire. And I've definitely done that in the past. 

I think the biggest learning, probably [00:02:30] the biggest learning, certainly tied for top three of in life in startups, the biggest lesson has been learning what real excellence looks like in a given position. When you first get started, if someone just knows more than you do about a given area, that's awesome. And because they know more [00:03:00] than you, you kind of give them the benefit of the doubt on everything. But until you've worked with someone who's world class in a given role and in a given position, you just don't know what that looks like and you don't know what you're missing out on by not having that truly. 

And especially for roles where people don't have huge personal brands. Accounting, engineering [00:03:30] and on and on and on. It's not obvious who the world class people are, right? It might be obvious who a world class CEO is or maybe a world class communications person, but when it comes to pretty obscure roles or highly technical roles where people in those positions generally don't want public profiles, it's just super hard to know what world class looks like.

[00:04:00] And when you don't know what world class looks like, you end up getting really attached to external signals, right?

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance

So this is Part Two of my reflection on the Shape Shift layoffs. I think anytime we start observing rounds of layoffs from an industry, I think it's important for CEOs in the space, founders in the space, really anyone in the space whose key and vital to the success of a company to reflect on what's happening. What mistakes were made, what lessons [00:00:30] are in this for observers. It's great to learn from other people's mistakes, that's the best way to learn. 

So I guess going back to Erik Voorhees original post about the reason for the layoffs, he alludes to the fact that it really came down to a lack of focus, that they had built Shape Shift, had [00:01:00] a great deal of success, then went out and created Coin Cap and Keep Key and Prism, and a variety of other projects that require engineers and leaders and visionaries and evangelists and communications people. I think there's a few additional lessons in this, beyond what I was talking about in the previous episode. [00:01:30] I think the first on is to realize that in any given company, I think probably the most precious resource is management bandwidth. There are only so many people that ultimately can take entire parts of the business and just handle them for you. The bigger you get, the harder it is to get those people. When you're hiring [00:02:00] founders, there's just all kinds of incentives, and I think connection to the origin story, and connection to the founding circumstances. There's a lot that I think empowers and inspires and enables these sort of early people to give a damn, and to take ownership over what happens. 

Then each round of [00:02:30] hires after that inherits the culture that came right when they were hired. It's a different set of circumstances, it always is, even in extremely successful public companies where the founding CEO wasn't around anymore. It's just a very different set of circumstances, so people coming are... I think when you're at 100 plus people, they're there for a career. They [00:03:00] want to be paid well, and they are thinking about what's their next thing and what's their next thing. What will they really do if they had all the money in the world and didn't have to leave their house every day and go to work. So the first thing is that in any company there's a limited amount of management bandwidth and that is a very scare resource, I might just say ownership bandwidth.

The second thing that is [00:03:30] pretty limited in companies is, I would call it vision bandwidth. Vision and conviction bandwidth, basically there's only so many big ideas that exist in any given time that are actually commercially viable, that you can recruit people around, and there just isn't an infinite amount [00:04:00] of that. For creating multiple companies and brands and stuff. I guess I've been thinking about the difference between my first company, when we did have layoffs. I do think we did get distracted, I won't go over all the things we started up there, but kind of the things that Eric is talking about in regard to creating Coin cap and Keep Key and Prism. [00:04:30] They were creating a market data website, and they had a hardware wallet and they had a build your own index fund thing. Made those mistakes before, how we're trying to avoid them at Nomics. 

I think the first one is to realize the absolute huge amount of value that a good vendor or contractor can provide.

[transcript truncated due to character count restrictions]

Website: https://nomics.com

Crypto Market Data API: https://nomicsapi.com

Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClayCollins

Company Twitter: https://twitter.com/NomicsFinance