00:00 Opening Perspective
00:37 Meet Mary Knysh
03:33 What Is Music for People
06:32 Presence Over Performance
10:52 40th Anniversary of Music for People
14:40 Music Came Before Language
18:46 Sound as the Language of the Soul
24:33 Culture vs Nature and Music
32:06 Awe and Neuroplasticity
36:55 Mary's Listening Tree Framework
42:57 Heart Note and Coherence
48:40 Invitation to Join Art of Improvisation (AOI)
52:34 Healing Through Improvisation
59:18 David Darlings Legacy and Where to Find Us

Dr. Michael DeMaria welcomes internationally recognized music educator and facilitator Mary Knysh for a heartfelt conversation about Music for People, improvisation, deep listening, creativity, and reconnecting with music as an innate part of being human. Mary shares how her journey with David Darling’s work led to decades of teaching and creating safe, welcoming spaces where anyone—musician or not—can discover their sound.

This episode honors the 40th anniversary of Music for People and explores David Darling’s legacy which has deeply impacted Michael and Mary's life, the power of musical play, sound as communication, community-building, neuroplasticity, and the upcoming week long Art of Improvisation (AOI) gathering at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York, July 26–31, 2026.

More about Mary:

Mary E. Knysh is an internationally recognized music educator, author, performer, and facilitator who has spent more than three decades helping people discover that music is not just something we do—it is part of who we are. As Director of the Musicianship and Leadership Program for Music for People and founder of Rhythmic Connections, Mary has inspired educators, musicians, healthcare professionals, and community leaders around the world through the transformative power of improvisation, rhythm, and creative play.

An Orff Schulwerk clinician, professional musician, recording artist, and international teaching artist, Mary presents workshops, conference sessions, and facilitator trainings throughout the United States, Europe, and beyond. She is the recipient of the 2022 New Jersey Governor's Award for Excellence in Arts Education and is the author of numerous publications, including Drum Circles 101.

Whether working with preschool children, classroom teachers, professional musicians, or people who have never considered themselves "musical," Mary's passion is creating welcoming spaces where every person can experience the joy of making music, building community, and discovering their own creative voice.

Learn more about Mary's work: https://music4wellness.com
Learn more about Music for People: https://www.musicforpeople.org

If this conversation resonates, please like, subscribe, share, and leave a comment about what improvisation means to you.

To find out more about Michael's work: https://michaeldemaria.com/

00:00 Welcome to the Show
00:42 Meet Sharalee Hoelscher
02:58 Michael’s Rolfing Journey
04:03 What Rolfing Really Is
08:32 Gravity as Therapist
12:38 Posture Shapes Psyche
15:29 Gliding and the Midline
22:16 Connective Tissue Explained
27:11 Feeling Fascia in Motion
29:55 Embryology and Forming Life
34:28 Bringing It Back to Practice
34:58 Gravity Heals Through Movement
35:36 Embryology Movement Creates Form
38:11  Unfolding and Unfurling Force Fields
43:07 Adult Body Homeostasis And Posture
45:27 Walking Experiments With Gravity
48:22 Beyond The Machine Model
52:58 Awareness Styles And Learning
57:24 Movement Paths And Feldenkrais
01:03:22 Final Thanks

I'm thrilled to have Sharalee on the show today. I've went through a Rolfing series with her and was fortunate to work with her prior to her retiring this year.  Her depth of knowledge and commitment to the true origins of Ida Rolf's work truly impressed me and I have continued to reap benefits from my work with her.  

A little more about this episode:

In this episode, Dr. Michael DeMaria welcomes retired Rolfer and craniosacral therapist Sharalee Hoelscher for a profound exploration of Rolfing’s deeper mystery — how movement shapes the self. Together they trace the lineage of Ida Rolf’s work, connecting gravity, fascia, and structural integration to emotional and spiritual transformation.

Sharalee shares insights from decades of practice, explaining how connective tissue acts as a continuous inner skin that organizes the body’s parts, and how gravity itself becomes the therapist when the body finds balance around its midline. They discuss embryology, ontogenesis, and Erich Blechschmidt’s revolutionary idea that movement precedes structure, revealing how this principle continues throughout life as we evolve through new gestures and forms.

Listeners will discover how posture shapes psyche, how trauma transforms through alignment, and how practices like Feldenkrais, yoga, Pilates, dance, and Rolf Movement help sustain the body’s living intelligence.

Keywords: Rolfing, Structural Integration, Fascia, Gravity as Therapist, Embryology, Movement Therapy, Somatic Healing, Trauma Transformation, Feldenkrais, Craniosacral Therapy, Ida Rolf, Body Alignment, Ontogenesis, Somatic Awareness, Sharalee Hoelscher, Michael DeMaria

Sharalee's Listing on Rolf.org: https://mms.rolf.org/members/directory/ROLF_profile.php?mid=1245928883

Michael's website: https://michaeldemaria.com/

0:00 Welcome to the Show
00:36 Meet Andrew Ecker
02:03 Ancestry and Roots
03:49 Life Assignment and Loss
04:58 Gritty Healing Work
06:46 Host Tribute and Sacred Seven
09:05 Opening Prayer
13:19 Relational Spirituality Defined
14:00 From Religion to Red Road
18:22 Trauma Addiction and Liberation
27:15 Energy and Emotional Density
28:56 Drumming in Memory Care
33:00 Displacement and Manifestation
35:29 Trauma Informed Sound Medicine
39:06 Spirituality Over Substances
39:35 Turning Pain Into Practice
40:40 Healthcare Pushback And Support
42:15 Scaling Drum Circle Impact
43:27 Energy Work With Clinicians
45:38 Gong Moment Breakthrough
47:31 Why Research Lags
50:34 Funding A Drumming Study
51:35 Connection Replaces Addiction
53:30 March Retreat Details
54:35 Congo Square And Inclusion
57:22 Transformation Story And Invite
01:00:23 Sacred Seven And Grounding
01:01:49 Blessing And Closing Prayer

The Other Side of Things Podcast

A Soulversation with Andrew Ecker
Recovery • Sacred 7 • Drumming Sounds • Rhythm as Medicine • Living a Prayed Life

In this deeply personal and powerful conversation, I sit down with healer, recovery guide, and founder of Drumming Sounds, Andrew Ecker.

Andrew shares his journey through addiction and recovery, revealing the deeper spiritual hunger beneath substance use and the sacred discipline that reshaped his life. We explore sobriety not as abstinence alone, but as initiation — as an ordeal that strips away illusion and invites us into prayer, service, and presence.

We also dive into Andrew’s Sacred 7 practice, a relational prayer rooted in the seven directions, and how rhythm and intentional drumming restore connection to ancestors, land, body, and spirit.

Andrew introduces his ancestry and lived experience with generational incarceration, substance use disorder, and family loss, and describes bringing drumming into memory care, psychiatric units, prisons, and treatment centers as an evidence-based, trauma-informed practice that emphasizes permission, empathy, and connection. The conversation focuses on “relational spirituality,” learning intimacy and boundaries with mental health experiences, and using drumming, breathwork, guided imagery, and sound medicine to displace “energies of sickness” and support healing. Andrew calls for more research funding for group drumming, shares outcomes from clinical and bereavement contexts, and promotes a March 13–16 retreat-style drumming training in Scottsdale plus his book Sacred Seven and coaching.

Andrew closes our conversation with a spoken prayer — a reminder that healing is not something we do alone, but something we remember together.

If this conversation moves you, consider subscribing and sharing it with someone who may need to hear it.

Andrew's Resources and Links:

Drumming Sounds
https://drummingsounds.com

Sacred 7 Community & Training
https://thesacredseven.com/

Andrew’s Book – The Sacred 7: A Path to Finding the Wholeness of Self-Identity
https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-path-finding-wholeness-self-identity/dp/1090133642?ref_=ast_author_dp

The Sacred 7 explores relational spirituality, identity, and healing rooted in earth-based traditions and community practice.

Michael's resources and links: 

Official Website
https://michaelbrantdemaria.com

Books
https://michaeldemaria.com/books/

Music & Albums
https://michaelbrantdemaria.com/music

Films
https://michaeldemaria.com/ontos-films/

YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@MichaelBrantDeMaria

00:00 Introduction to The Other Side of Things
00:40 Welcoming the Guest: Rebecca Wild Bear
01:31 Rebecca's Background and Work
03:27 The Importance of Wilderness Therapy
06:29 Challenges of Modern Culture and Soul Work
11:56 Writing and Living Wild Yoga
16:45 Personal Stories and Vulnerabilities
30:03 The Concept of Wild Yoga
35:19 Embracing Vulnerability
35:52 The Never-Ending Journey of Healing
37:13 Love Warrior vs. Heart Warrior
38:02 The Power of Love and Ferocity
44:07 Feral Female Ferocity
50:04 The Role of Anger and Boundaries
01:02:32 The Journey of Braveheart
01:05:18 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

✨ The Other Side of Things Podcast | Guest: Rebecca Wildbear ✨

In this episode, I’m joined by my dear friend of over a decade, Rebecca Wildbear—author of Wild Yoga: A Practice of Initiation, Veneration, and Advocacy for the Earth. It was such a joy to finally sit down and reconnect with her for this conversation.

Rebecca is a nature-based soul guide, vision fast guide with Animas Valley Institute, and former wilderness therapy facilitator with Open Sky. Her life’s work is devoted to helping people listen deeply to the mysteries of the Earth, their dreams, and their souls.

Together we explore how Rebecca’s approach to wild yoga—a blend of yoga, deep imagination, and nature connection—offers a paradigm shift in how we understand human development, especially through the lens of nature-based soul initiation. Drawing on our shared apprenticeship with Bill Plotkin and the Animas Valley Institute, we discuss:

🌿 How wild yoga is different from traditional yoga
🌿 The role of wilderness in soul initiation and human maturation
🌿 Alternative ways of looking at what is often called “mental illness,” addiction, or psychosis
🌿 How nature can guide healing, wholeness, and purpose
🌿 Why adults who never felt at home in mainstream culture may still find their soul initiation later in life

Rebecca’s book Wild Yoga is both a practice and an invitation—a call to live in deeper conversation with the Earth and with the soul’s longing.

🔗 Learn more about Rebecca Wildbear and her work: https://www.rebeccawildbear.com
📖 Get Wild Yoga: https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Yoga-Practice-Initiation-Veneration/dp/160868797X

If you enjoy this conversation, please like, share, and subscribe for more soulful dialogues on The Other Side of Things.

Michael's website:  www.michaeldemaria.com

00:00 Introduction
01:15 Who is C. Michael Smith?
04:59 What is the Dialogic Method for Jung and Shamanism in Michael's work.
08:23 The ancient history behind understanding the world of Spirit
09:00 Jung's description of an archetypal possession and the need for exorcism
12:39 How Michael was drawn to this deep work of Jung and Shamanism 
14:02 Jung's Memories, Dreams and Reflections and Mircea Eliade's work on Shamanism
15:14 Michael's person connection to the Spirit World/Collective Unconscious
16:28 Michael's encounter with the Numinous 
17:04 Michael's Jungian Analyst told him he needed to find a shamanic teacher
18:18 His vision quest and finding his Daemon/Guardian Spirit and Guide
20:30 His first work with serious mental illness/archetypal possession
21:43 Shamanism as an archaic Depth Psychology 
22:30 Jung, "If I knew about Shamanism I wouldn't have spent so much time with alchemy."
25:30 Core Analysis and Psycho Shamanism in Michael's work.
26:12 The Psyche is a porous open system - connected to all reality which is a blessing and curse.
27:23 How to stay curious, compassionate, and open to these psychic numinous realities/entities.
28:30 The power of relationship, music, presence, symbol, chant, colorful ceremony in this work.
30:06 Michael's work with exorcism with severe cases, which he uses very rarely.
33:45 When Michael works with Severe Mental Illness uses greater family and psychiatric support.
35:00 Example of someone who was archetypally possessed and how he did an exorcism.
40:17 How do we help people shamanically swim in these waters instead of psychotically drowning.
41:30 "I'm in the business of working with the impossible, what other people say can't be healed."
42:30 One particularly powerful case of healing deep trauma through multiple de-possessions. 
43:36 Dealing with deep ancestral trauma inter-generationally.  
45:16 In Internal Family Systems you can have a Legacy Burden and Unattached Burden.  
47:09 Michael's take on Post-Modern Shamanism vs. Traditional Shamanism.
50:13 Michael's take on being a reconstructive Post-Modernist.
51:48 Michael's powerful use of shamanic work with a cancer patient.
56:19 Consciousness is fundamental as a shift from our tradition of materialistic reductionism.
58:52 Post-modern shamanism is updating itself with the newest findings in neuroscience and physics.
1:01:00 An N of 1 matters.
1:02:00 Advaita Vedanta and letting go of any attachment to any objects.
1:03:00 Our Avatar Bodies...
1:04:27 Eternity is in love with the productions of time.
1:06:00 Michael's sharing of Jung's story of the woman who lived on the moon and how he see's his own work with the defenses of the psyche. 
1:09:39 A shamanic correction to Jung's work - the extra step of ceremony - soul retrieval - inviting in what was giving up - not just extraction/de-possession/exorcism, but also welcoming back the essence of what was displaced. 
1:11:00 Your defense system is like a psychic immune system - those young parts of us. 
1:13:00 The being of the shamanic healer must live and respond from your open center. 
1:14:30 The center ultimately IS the heart. 
1:17:00 Jung was also a phenomenologist - and his sense of the divine was numinous.
1:20:00 The most powerful place to stand and for protection and healing is the heart...

In this profound episode, I sit down with clinical psychologist, medical anthropologist, and author C. Michael Smith, a world-renowned expert in Jungian psychology and shamanic healing. Together, we explore the fertile intersection of Jung’s depth psychology and indigenous shamanic traditions — both of which view healing as a soul-centered, symbolic, and relational process.

We dive into:
✨ How Jung's concept of the wounded healer echoes the shamanic initiation
✨ The parallels between soul retrieval and Jungian individuation
✨ The role of altered states, dreams, and active imagination in accessing inner wisdom
✨ The sacred importance of ritual, symbol, and myth in both systems
✨ How trauma, possession, and spiritual crisis are addressed in traditional vs. modern cultures
✨ And why reconnecting with the soul — personally and culturally — is more vital than ever

C. Michael Smith brings a rare integration of scholarship and lived experience. His seminal book Jung and Shamanism in Dialogue has influenced therapists, healers, and seekers worldwide.

This is a rich, timely conversation for anyone called to the deeper healing path, whether through psychotherapy, ceremony, or inner exploration.

Michael's book on Jung and Shamanism:
 https://www.amazon.com/Jung-Shamanism-Dialogue-Retrieving-Sacred-ebook/dp/B00I4GL9OI 
Michael's website:
https://crowsnestshamanism.com/blog/
Michael DeMaria's website: 
https://michaeldemaria.com/

#JungAndShamanism #CMichaelSmith #TheOtherSideOfThings #SoulHealing #WoundedHealer #DepthPsychology #ShamanicHealing

00:37 Introduction
01:39 Who is Sean Blackwell?
03:59 Our mutual connection to Holotropic Breathwork.
05:32 Sean's Bipolar Episode and Hospitalization.
07:22 Working with his partner's nieces psychotic episodes.
07:57 Dr. John Weir Perry and Dr. Loren Moser's influence on Sean.
09:38 Sean has done 60-70 retreat with people around the world.
13:16 The overlap of spirituality and psychosis in Sean's work.
13:40 Two camps: Peer Support vs. Transpersonal psychology
16:31 Grof's the Stormy Search for the Self
17:21 The 13 basic delusions people experience
17:46 When flip into paranoia no healing can happen!
18:35 The blissful psychosis vs. the Paranoid psychosis
21:35 Trauma and psychosis
22:06. Healing the chakra's somatically
23:08 What's truly healing is the healing field!
24:35 Sean's discovery of surrogate breathwork.
32:34 Dealing with intense shadow energies - even what feels like feels demonic
36:34 Sean's discovery of distance healing through his work with Family Constellation Therapy
43:21 Sean's current understanding of The Healing Field.
50:27 Tribal Shamanism, New Age Shamanism vs Quantum Shamanism
56:34 A name for every name in the river, but not the river itself.
59:23 Developing an Integral Consciousness
1:01:23 Accessing the quantum dimension.
1:02:31 The most powerful protection.
1:07:36 Sean's understanding of soul.
1:11:00 Sean's frustration with how little people understand the work he does.
1:16:00 How to find Sean's work.

Since 2007 Sean Blackwell has been researching and teaching about the spiritual dimension and healing potential of bipolar disorder through his YouTube channel, bipolarORwakingUP. His videos graphically illustrate subjects such as spiritual emergency, transpersonal psychology, and the evolution of consciousness, always demonstrating how these themes relate to transcending the bipolar condition. His book, “Am I Bipolar or Waking Up?”, published in 2011, describes his own bipolar awakening, subsequent hospitalization, and complete recovery, which happened in 1996. 
 
In 2013, Sean started The Bipolar Awakenings Healing Retreat, a pioneering program for people who wanted to heal from their so-called incurable condition. In September of 2016, Sean received his certification as a Holotropic Breathwork facilitator with Grof Transpersonal Training, the official training program of Dr. Stanislav Grof. This education has been fundamental to the development of the healing retreat process, as a modified form of Holotropic Breathwork, Bipolar Breathwork, provides the basis for the bioenergetic healing process which takes place during retreats.
 
Based on his experience facilitating private retreats, Sean developed two new online healing modalities. In 2020, he launched Distance Surrogate Breathwork and Conscious Emotional Clearing, as two very affordable options that could help people begin to heal their bipolar conditions safely, within the comfort of their own home.

Sean's website and link to his new book: https://www.bipolarawakenings.com/
Michael's Website: https://michaeldemaria.com/
Michael's Links: https://michaeldemaria.com/michaels-links/

00:00 Introduction
01:04 Who is Linda Star Wolf, Ph.D.
03:35 Star Wolf gives us a beautiful opening blessing
06:57 History of Michael and Star's relationship
11:50 The Spiral Path - the transformational process that requires change!
15:30 The origin of the word Shaman and it's true meaning as Shamaning...
19:16 Trusting when things need to end...
20:42 We all need the right amount of heartbreak.
23:00 My grandmothers who have helped me.
26:13 Shamanism and Breakdown/Breakthroughs
30:00 Growing up in the woods and forest as an only child.
32:57 Growing up highly sensitive.
35:48 Breathwork, breakdowns and breakthroughs and precautions
42:00 Shadow work, shamanic deaths and rebirths
45:36 The blessings of soul friends - who help us embrace our weirdness - that is our uniqueness!
48:14 Weird originally meant, 'having a foot in both worlds.'
50:30 Authenticity and embracing the shadow
55:13 The collective shadow and the pain of being demonized and shamed can drive you crazy
58:00 Let's be clear we LIVE on a Shamanic Planet - we've already had huge extinction events!
1:00:00 This is an Earth School
1:05:00 The AI I'm interested in is Authentic Intelligence - NOT artificial intelligence.
1:10:00 Here to get a doctorate degree in the Universe - according to grandmother Twyla.

I’m truly honored to welcome a dear friend and longtime collaborator to the show today—Dr. Linda Star Wolf. Star Wolf and I have shared a deep connection for decades, working together on projects rooted in transformation, healing, and the sacred path of shamanic wisdom. As a shamanic breathwork facilitator myself, I’ve been profoundly influenced by her teachings and the visionary work she has brought to the world.

Today, we’ll be diving into her latest book, The Aquarian Shaman, exploring the evolution of shamanic consciousness in these changing times. From breathwork to shadow work, the endless spiral path of the soul and the wisdom of our teachers and elders, we’ll journey into what it means to truly follow our hearts and the path of our souls!

Get comfortable, take a deep breath, and join us on this soul-centered conversation with the incredible Linda Star Wolf.

Linda Star Wolf, Ph.D., has been a shamanic visionary teacher and guide to thousands of people over the last four decades. Star Wolf was a nationally certified alcohol and drug counselor for 30+ years. She studied a variety of breathwork techniques with many teachers. Star Wolf draws much of her wisdom from personal experience of using breath to fortify connection to one’s own life force energy.

The author of 13 books, Star Wolf is the creator of Shamanic Breathwork®, the Shamanic Healing Initiatory Process® (S.H.I.P.), the Founder of Venus Rising Association for Transformation (a non-profit organization), and Founding President of Venus Rising University for Shamanic Psychospiritual Studies. Star Wolf is also co-founder of the Shamanic Mystery Tours and guides spiritual seekers to travel as emissaries to sacred shamanic sites worldwide.
 
Dedicating her life to assisting soul seekers to transform and embrace their lives, Star Wolf teaches how to embody the shaman within and step into a life of passionate, soul purpose. Her commitment to sacred activism and visionary leadership led her to create the Shamanic Ministers Global Network and train Shamanic Breathwork Facilitators around the world. 
 
Star Wolf has a deep connection to shamanic earth wisdom teachings originating from Indigenous elders. Twylah Nitsch, beloved Seneca Wolf Clan Grandmother, gave her the spirit name Star Wolf and adopted her as a Spiritual Granddaughter.

Website: https://www.shamanicbreathwork.org/
Michael's Website:  https://michaeldemaria.com/
Order book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Aquarian-Shaman-Walking-Spiral-Transformation/dp/1591435145

00:00 Intro
01:05 Who is Dick Russell?
04:47 What is My Mysterious Son about and why Dick wrote it.
06:15 Other ways of looking at Schizophrenia and Otherworldliness .
08:44 Michael's soulchosis/spiritual emergency at 18 and how he worked through it.
10:55 Dick's first contact with Jung and Hillman
12:50 Hillman asks Dick to write his Biography - which turned into 3 large volumes!
14:30 Hillman's advice to Dick regarding his son Franklin - "treat him like a regular person"
15:15 Relaxing with Franklin, going with the flow and going with it and finding humor!
19:46 Who is Malidoma Patrice Some?
23:00 Dick received divinations from Malidoma and begins learning about shamanism
26:32 Michael's experiences with shamanic and soulcentric practices
28:47 The scariest moment of Dick's life with Franklin in Africa
32:00 Dick's breakdown/breakthrough with Franklin through a role reversal.
34:21 The most powerful protection in the universe - a pure heart!
37:16 Shaman's Among Us - book on schizophrenia and shamanism
38:54 Dick's current understanding of what he's learned from his journey with Franklin
41:54 The power of going through this journey as a family including Franklin's mother Eda.
48:57 The importance of the ancestors in this shamanic healing journey.
50:10 The slave shackle as part of the healing ritual Dick was asked to do.
57:50 Robert Whitaker and Mad in America
59:01 Metabolic Therapies for Schizophrenia, Bipolar and Schizoaffective disorders
1:01:00 How your devotion and love as a fire for your Mysterious Son touched my heart
1:03:30 In The Wound is the Gift
1:05:00 It's All About Love! Find out what is true in your heart.
1:08:00 Hillman and The Soul's Code
1:11:00 How to find out more about Dick's work.

Exploring the Borderlands: An Unforgettable Interview with Dick Russell:

For as long as I can remember, I've been drawn to the borderland between the personal and transpersonal dimensions of reality. Even before my near-death experience (NDE) at the age of seven, I was a boy who lived between the worlds—where the boundaries between myself, others, nature, and the cosmos ebbed and flowed like the brushstrokes of a Van Gogh painting.

Over the past 40 years, I’ve found profound joy in helping those who feel lost between worlds discover a path back—or a way to thrive within that liminal space. My journey has included studying with indigenous healers and teachers, practicing Buddhist meditation under my Zen teacher’s guidance for 45 years, and navigating the heartache of witnessing loved ones struggle with being "lost" between the worlds.

When I discovered Dick Russell’s book, 'My Mysterious Son: A Life-Changing Passage Between Schizophrenia and Shamanism', I immediately felt a deep resonance. Little did I know how much I would have in common with Dick, whose journey as a father navigating his son Franklin’s extraordinary life is profoundly moving. Dick’s work goes beyond the personal, connecting to themes of healing, shamanism, and the mysteries of the psyche.

As I prepared for this interview, I dove into his incredible body of work, including the monumental three-volume authorized biography of James Hillman, one of the most provocative post-Jungian thinkers of the 20th century. Dick’s connection to Malidoma Somé—someone who has also profoundly influenced my life—adds another rich layer to this dialogue.

This is not just an interview; it’s an exploration of mystery, healing, and the courage it takes to live between worlds. Join us for an unforgettable conversation that will leave you inspired and deeply moved.

Connect and Join the Conversation:
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more soulful explorations!

A bit more about Dick Russell:

Dick Russell is the author of sixteen non-fiction books, including a three-volume biography of depth psychologist James Hillman and "My Mysterious Son: A Life-Changing Passage Between Schizophrenia and Shamanism."  Four books co-authored with Jesse Ventura were New York Times best-sellers, and his "Eye of the Whale" in 2001 was name among the Best Books of the Year by three major newspapers.  He was also a recipient of the Chevron Conservation Award for his environmental work.

Dick's website:  https://dickrussell.org/
My Mysterious Son on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Mysterious-Son-Life-Changing-Schizophrenia-Shamanism/dp/1510729003/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Michael's website:  https://michaeldemaria.com/

#DickRussell #MyMysteriousSon #JamesHillman #SchizophreniaAndShamanism #Shamanism #NDE #VanGogh #Meditation #ZenPractice #IndigenousWisdom #MentalHealth #BetweenTheWorlds #HealingJourney #MysticalExperience #DepthPsychology #MalidomaSome #PodcastInterview #Spirituality #SoulfulConversations #TheOtherSideOfThings

00:00 Introduction
01:13 Who is Gabi Varga?
06:05 A Holistic Approach to Fitness
10:51 The Imprint of Trauma on our Bodies
12:18 Nurturing Our Nervous Systems
20:38 When Clients Feel Safe Even Tears May Come
23:16 Understanding What Dysregulation of The Nervous System Is
37:15 Fight, Flee, Freeze or Fawn Responses.
40:41 What Trauma-Sensitive Personal Training May Look Like
52:00 Where to find out more about Gabi and her work.

I first discovered Gabi Varga’s work during the pandemic, while searching for a way to stay active without going to the gym. Growing up as an athlete—playing football, lacrosse, and competing in track—I had my share of experiences with harsh, even abusive coaching styles. Like so many in our culture, I often held myself to impossible standards. Add to that the challenges of lingering trauma from childhood surgeries, which have left me with muscle imbalances requiring extra care during training, and I knew I needed a different approach.

When I came across the phrase “trauma-informed personal training” in my feed, I was immediately drawn to Gabi’s unique perspective. Following her work was a game-changer, helping me reframe my workouts with more compassion and curiosity. Her approach offered a much-needed reset for both my body and mind.  Our schedules finally aligned for us to have a deep dive into this fascinating topic and new approach to fitness. 

More about Gabi:

I grew up in Hungary and became a group fitness instructor at 20. Fifteen years ago, I moved to Montreal for someone who became my husband and turned out to be emotionally abusive. At the time, I didn’t realize it; I was busy learning English and starting my life from scratch. I built a wonderful life with amazing Hungarian friends and a great following of fitness participants.
During COVID, I found a somatic therapist. This body-based approach made so much sense, helping with nervous system regulation and trauma release. The shift was slow but significant. I started my own personal training business but felt stuck with conventional "no pain, no gain" fitness.

I began using somatic techniques in my sessions and discovered trauma-informed personal training, which excited me. I completed the next course available.

Now, I help people who are healing from existing trauma improve their relationship with movement and reach their fitness goals. By listening to you and understanding your individual needs, we can work together to turn exercise into a safe, sustainable, and joyful experience.Often, we overlook our body’s signals, pushing through pain or overtraining—leading to injury, burnout, shame cycles, and even trauma responses like dissociation.

Trauma-informed training unlocks your potential by embracing a gentler, more mindful approach. Together, we’ll build tools for body awareness, self-regulation, and understanding what your body truly needs to reach your fitness goals safely. Most importantly, we’ll reframe exercise so it feels genuinely good.

Gabi's website: https://thetraumainformedpt.com/

Michael's Website: https://michaeldemaria.com

00:00 Introduction
01:00 Who is Michael Meade?
03:20 What Michael is tracking post election?
04:00 Manu and the Fish - a story about the origin of human consciousness
08:00 Moving from the Law of the Fishes to the Law of Manu
10:30 How do we feed that 'little fish' in our own life.
11:00 When we are following our calling we can deal with big heavy duty issues!
12:00 The fish is the most ancient symbol of the deep self.
14:00 Something bigger and deeper than politics.
15:30 We are in a collective Rite of Passage.
17:41 Apocalypsis - Collapse/Renewal - both and - a powerful time to find ourselves!
20:20 Michael's soul initiation in solitary confinement - a deep initiatory descent
22:30 When you have nothing left - what is left is you and truly yours...
23:41 What is indestructible within us?
24:35 Soulchosis and the Mythic level of reality.
26:30 Michael's difficulty reweaving his way into consensus reality after his soul intiation.
27:25 Everyone has an experience of the deep self or they would die.
30:00 When the outside world doesn't work, we must work fall back to the inner world!
33:00 We are threaded to a destiny - it comes as a whisper...not a trumpet!
34:22 Michael's breakthrough where stories came alive while drumming and storytelling.
39:00 We are each a flute that God is here to play - Hafiz
40:30 When we are living in alignment with our inner 'geniurs/angel' we are deeply protected.
44:40 Finding Your Soul tribe.
45:00 our originality is coming from the Origin of Life...it isn't our it belongs to life
46:00 Our little self resists the full unfolding of our soul's destiny.
48:00 We are here to be like flowers - turn ourselves inside out!
49:20 Opening ourselves to the cosmic dancing, singing, streaming of divine wisdom
50:45 Traditionally those who were seen as 'crazy' were apprenticed to the shamans.
54:10 More people on the edge of madness and suicide today we need more community.
55:00 By helping the one suffering actually heals the community.
55:20 If a culture can come together around a person having a psychotic break all can heal.
57:40 The Lapland Shamanic traditions and Open Dialogue's approach to psychosis in Finland.
58:00 Bone memory - we have access to these old ancient knowing and the streaming wisdom.
1:00:00 Such freedom when following the streaming - and the origin of healing and healing songs
1:01:00 The Origin of Healing Rituals and Songs
1:04:00 The importance of standing in the Not-Knowing and tolerating the Chaos
1:08:00 Every day has a moment of Eternity waiting for you!
1:09:00 Music is the Healing Road 
1:10:00 Be Your Note!!

I'm thrilled to share this episode with you! I've been a fan of Michaels work for over 30 years and it was a true joy having him on the show!

In this episode of The Other Side of Things, we will delve into themes of creation as recreation, the meaning of wisdom and genius, and the myths that can guide us through apocalyptic times. We’ll also explore Michael's own soul initiation during his time in solitary confinement, the importance of storytelling in dark times, and his very unique perspective on psychosis and this time of collective rite of passage we are all on globally in the areas of nature and culture.

Michael Meade is a renowned storyteller, author, and mythologist whose work weaves together ancient wisdom, poetic insight, and depth psychology to explore the profound challenges and opportunities of our time. With decades of experience, Meade is celebrated for his unique ability to blend mythic stories with modern issues, illuminating how timeless truths can guide individuals and societies through crises.

As the founder of the Mosaic Multicultural Foundation, Meade has dedicated his life to fostering unity and understanding across diverse communities. His teachings focus on the essential role of myth, genius, and creativity in times of chaos, urging people to embrace their inner gifts and life purpose. A masterful speaker and captivating orator, he connects deeply with audiences by drawing on mythological archetypes, cultural history, and transformative storytelling.

Meade is the author of several acclaimed books, including The Genius Myth, Awakening the Soul, Fate and Destiny, and Why the World Doesn't End. His podcast, Living Myth, has become a powerful platform for exploring the intersection of mythology, psychology, and cultural change. His work resonates with seekers, creatives, and leaders alike, inspiring hope and wisdom in uncertain times.

Website: https://www.mosaicvoices.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMeadeMosaic
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michaelmeade_mosaic
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw8wVAkj4OB4QL93nQu0fYRoBJj1IURri

Michael DeMaria's Links:
https://michaeldemaria.com/
https://www.facebook.com/DrMichaelDeMaria/
https://www.instagram.com/drmichaeldemaria/
Music Links: https://listen.michaeldemaria.com/mbd
All Michael's Links: https://michaeldemaria.com/michaels-links/