The Panel

By Justin Jackson & Brian Casel

When it comes to bootstrapping and building software, there's rarely one right answer. We want to dive into the nuance. In every episode, veteran founders Justin Jackson and Brian Casel tackle thorny ... more

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FAQs about The Panel:

How many episodes does The Panel have?

The podcast currently has 21 episodes available.

The Panel episodes:

September 12, 2025Business Dad, digital fatigue, Outro.fm, Builder Methods
We're joined by Ian Landsman, from the Mostly Technical podcast, joins us to chat about Outro.fm and Helpspot. We talk digital fatigue, the challenges of maintaining an online presence, the importance of building a community around shared interests, finding the right audience, and balancing personal goals with business objectives. As Brian⁩ prepares to launch Builder Methods Pro, we debate the value of community feedback and the potential for unforeseen opportunities in creating content online. Ian talks with us about the development of Outro.fm as an all-in-one solution for podcasters, the importance of building a membership community, the production side of podcasting tools, and the challenges faced in the podcasting market. Also: the difference between one-time sale products (courses) and SaaS.
Timestamps:
(00:06) - The pre-show is the show
(00:23) - Quitting Twitter
(06:19) - Redesigning his website with AI
(07:53) - Deciding on what a channel is for
(13:59) - Chasing views and likes
(20:58) - What are we up to this week
(29:36) - Why subscription and community vs team training and consulting
(50:32) - What should the premium content be for day one?
(57:08) - What is Outro.fm?
(01:15:04) - Who are Outro.fm's competition?
(01:21:47) - Selling sponsorships for podcasts as a product
(01:25:43) - The bet on how much revenue you'll get from your work
(01:43:59) - Step 1: Become famous
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Ian Landsman
A Smart Bear
Builder Methods | Training for AI-first software developers
Outro.fm
Mostly Technical Member Site | Outro
The Podcast Website Builder | Podpage
Luma · Delightful Events Start Here
The Changelog podcast
Syntax - Web Development Podcast
Help desk software for effortless email support
...more
1h 58min
September 05, 2025Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results?
Brian is wondering: how do you manage a popular open source project? Justin went to Toronto and introduced his son to Adam Wathan, Wes Bos, Steve Schoger, and Caleb Porzio. Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results? And... is everyone getting tired of all this copycat content that's optimized for algorithms?
Timestamps:
(00:20) - Preview of what we're going to talk about
(02:11) - Builder Methods Pro and AgentOS
(03:58) - The importance of human content in an age of algorithmic feeds
(25:55) - Connecting with people in real life
(33:52) - Zeroing in on Builder Methods revenue
(48:25) - Managing an open source project in public
(59:22) - The importance of enthusiasm in projects
(01:12:21) - Effort and outcome
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Sam Sulek YouTube Channel
Builder Methods Workshop
Justin’s Toronto Hangout
Marketing is a Transfer of Enthusiasm
Agent OS GitHub Project
Open Source Contribution Guidelines (Litestream)
37signals Book Royalties Revenue
Effort vs Outcome Blog Post
1,000 True Fans
Omarchy 2.0
Wes Bos
Downie - YouTube Video Downloader for macOS
...more
1h 43min
August 16, 2025A framework for getting what you want
Justin's been using Stripe Sigma to learn a lot more about the history of revenue at Transistor. He had a phone call with Jason Cohen about how to get what you want out of your business. And Brian talks through the same frameworks to figure out what might work best for Builder Methods including exploration of courses, cohorts, community, and more.
Timestamps:
(00:06) - We're back!
(00:59) - Brian's healthcare journey
(09:36) - Deep dive into Stripe Sigma and Transistor's history
(37:38) - Asking yourself the hard questions about your business
(42:12) - The value of taking a win now
(57:29) - What does Brian want with BuilderMethods
(01:14:35) - Rob Snyder's Pull framework
(01:30:48) - Can you do community well without the time commitment?
(01:35:17) - Cohort vs courses
(01:57:23) - How long is a long podcast episode?
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Jason Cohen: About the author
Mostly Technical
ChartMogul | CRM & Subscription Analytics built for B2B SaaS growth
Message from Paddle
Kit: Email-First Operating System for Creators (formerly ConvertKit)
Build Your SaaS | The “charge more” debate
Average Podcast Downloads: Podcast Measurement and Growth
Finding Fulfillment
Agent OS | A free open-source system to train smart AI coding agents
The PULL framework - by Rob Snyder
Jay Clouse - Creator Science
Learn Laravel | Laracasts
Wes Bos
Learn Ruby on Rails | GoRails
...more
1h 59min
July 18, 2025Should we be outsourcing customer support to AI chatbots?
Justin is wondering whether AI customer support is worth it. Brian is navigating the emotional rollercoaster of YouTube. He's wondering whether he should pursue sponsorships as a revenue stream. Brian introduces Agent OS, a new development tool designed to streamline coding processes when working with AI tooling (which got a big reaction during the live stream).

Timestamps:
(00:33) - Justin's experiment with AI support chat bots
(15:20) - Do you want AI writing your responses?
(19:06) - Trying to figure out why Brian's latest video didn't work as well
(26:35) - How important is it to keep publishing every week?
(30:56) - Thinking sponsorship vs products
(45:36) - The value of community
(56:23) - What is Agent OS?
(01:05:00) - Should Agent OS be free?
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Bento
Transistor’s new customer service page
Agent OS
Agent OS on GitHub
Brian’s YouTube
Colin and Samir interview by Jay Clouse
Colin and Samir
Jay Clouse’s revenue breakdown
Wes Bos
Syntax.fm
...more
1h 15min
July 11, 2025I don't love SaaS anymore
AI and programming is a hot topic, and it feels like Brian⁩ has found that "founder/audience" fit where his interests align with a wave of audience interest. He and Justin discuss their process for making YouTube videos. Justin also asks: "how do we ensure that our worst tendencies don’t bloom" when we're making products? (Founder retreats and masterminds come up). The big topic: Brian's not loving SaaS (anymore).

Timestamps:
(00:06) - Brian's YouTube journey
(04:29) - What Brian's hoping BuilderMethods could be
(08:26) - What does Brian's YouTube video script look like?
(10:59) - Why is AI so bad for YouTube editors?
(16:57) - One thing Descript really nails
(19:44) - How Steve Jobs ruined his early companies
(24:25) - Learning about your blindspots
(28:40) - Seeking connection in mastermind groups or conferences
(38:00) - How can we make sure we don't follow our worst impulses?
(42:23) - Zooming in on our battery: what gives us energy?
(53:00) - Getting alignment between what you love and what makes you money
(01:00:10) - What might not work for one person, can be a smash hit for another
(01:03:20) - What is the paid value of content lead companies?
(01:21:07) - There are business models that are difficult
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS product
Transistor.fm - Justin's company
Builder Methods
The Panel Podcast (@panelpodcast.com) | TikTok
Descript: Edit Videos & Podcasts Like a Doc | AI Video Editor
DaVinci Resolve | Blackmagic Design
Dithering
Daring Fireball
Shawn Blanc: Focus Like a Boss
calf + clover creamery
Daniel Pink
Tally
Profit First - Mike Michalowicz
Mike Michalowicz – How the author of Profit First stays lean by licensing his ideas
Apple in China
Justin’s BlueSky post on Steve Jobs
The Pull Framework
Bowling drawing
Marketing help for programmers, software companies, and SaaS
Checklist idea for marketing page
Profit first professionals
...more
1h 27min
July 04, 2025What's in Justin's Buckets?
It's Justin's turn in the hot seat to talk about what he's got in his buckets: which projects make the most money? Which take the most time? Where is he focused on breaking new ground? How does Transistor, The Podcast Standards Projects, and other projects he's got going all fit together? Plus: what kind of grit, desire, and resilience do you need to actually build a company that works?

Timestamps:
(01:09) - Why Brian will never join your Slack
(04:54) - What email client did Brian switch to?
(16:56) - Justin's matrix of boxes
(17:58) - What are Justin's boxes?
(19:54) - What is the Podcast Standards Project?
(28:57) - The benefits of working in the same place together
(35:49) - Pushing back on Justin's time allotement
(38:48) - What's the work in the investment portfolio?
(48:34) - Having the motivation and ability to commit
(58:24) - Running your own business + a family changes the calculations
(01:01:04) - Getting encouragment from simple projects
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Illustration: Justin's buckets
Instrumental Components - Brian's new product
Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS product
Transistor.fm - Justin's company
Builder Methods
Instrumental Components
HEY – A delightfully fresh take on email + calendar, from 37signals
Superhuman | The most productive email app ever made
Shortwave | Download
Readwise
Podcast Standards Project | Advocating for open podcasting
ProjectionLab - Modern Financial & Retirement Planning Tools
Tiny | We buy wonderful businesses
Going independent (2016 year in review)
Here are some other podcasts we like
For next week: Andrew Wilkinson's tweet about AI
...more
1h 8min
June 20, 2025"Happy little shovels"
Brian Casel shares a first look at BuilderMethods.com. Brian dig into how he's going to grow an email list from scratch, and we had a great chat about what makes an email newsletter awesome.
The bulk of our chat was about honestly assessing the resources, time, and energy Brian is putting into each project, and how much revenue each project is producing. (Check out Justin's diagram here)

Timestamps:
(00:05) - We're back live!
(01:15) - What is BuilderMethods.com?
(04:04) - Brian's building a newsletter builder first
(08:17) - What makes a good newsletter?
(15:44) - Do videos work in email newsletters?
(20:00) - Next steps for Brian in the business: products to offer?
(22:17) - Offering consulting and coaching
(25:20) - Does it all feel overwhelming to take on?
(30:53) - Visualizing Brian's project's revenue vs time
(34:05) - Audience building vs Saas building
(41:56) - How excited is Brian about each project?
(58:14) - How do you quantify the time and revenue?
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Instrumental Components - Brian's new product
Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS product
Transistor.fm - Justin's company
Builder Methods
Instrumental Components
Audience Ops
Justin’s “Bob Ross” strategy diagram
Marketing for Devs
Curated
Mailbrew
A Book Apart
Web framework popularity
Hitenism
Aaron Francis Newsletter
Tangle
Product market fit collapse
Why Justin pivoted businesses in 2018
...more
1h 10min
June 13, 2025Brian Launches His New Project
Brian's walking through the new website and idea he's launching and getting Justin's feedback on what he thinks will work and what could use refining, the struggle of creating video content in 2025, keeping course content fresh, whether another podcast is the best use of time, and whether targeting junior or professional software developers is the best route to go.

Timestamps:
(00:00) - What broke the internet?
(02:00) - Sports is heartache
(05:49) - The trouble with hosting video costs
(24:57) - What is Brian launching?
(35:13) - The struggle of creating video content
(37:48) - How are people finding the videos on YouTube?
(47:19) - What do we think about the revenue opportunities for Brian's idea?
(51:49) - Keeping a course and content fresh in 2025
(59:38) - Should Brian start another podcast?
(01:04:21) - Should I target junior or professional software developers with AI training?
(01:22:20) - Live shoutouts
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Instrumental Components - Brian's new product
Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS product
Transistor.fm - Justin's company
Amazon S3
Mux
HTTP Live Streaming
Delivering 15TB of 4K video with Cloudflare R2 for $2.18
How About Tomorrow?
Cloudflare Stream
FFmpeg
How Vibe Coding Goes PRO
buildermethods.com
Descript
ScreenFlow
Telestream Blog
Stephen Robles
Mostly Technical
CRUSH Your Backlog With Background Agents in Cursor
No, AI Won’t Turn Everyone Into App Developers
...more
1h 24min
June 06, 2025Changed my mind: AI is actually good for coding
Big episode! Brian shares the results of his launch of Instrumental Components (sales numbers, and how he's feeling). He also talks about his next project: helping devs and teams navigate how to use AI in software development and design. This episode was recorded live, with tons of folks joining us in the "panel" chat. Adam Wathan ended up joining us last-minute to talk about how he's changed is mind on AI and coding, and how AI is affecting Tailwind's business.

Timestamps:
(02:50) - What is Instrumental Components and how has the launch been?
(11:06) - Why not go for something big?
(24:26) - What you hear online vs the reality of what's going on
(29:24) - Pricing change for Instrumental Components
(34:04) - Where Brian's going next
(51:42) - Adam Wathan on how they're using AI
(01:06:14) - Writing PRD for AI instead of prompt writing
(01:09:39) - How is AI going to affect Adam's business?
(01:24:03) - Vibe coding personal projects
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
Instrumental Components - Brian's new product
Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS product
Transistor.fm - Justin's company
Integrate Open AI and Anthropic APIs into your Rails applications (video)
Rob Walling's Stair Step approach
Vercel's new V0 AI tool
Thorsten Ball's article: How to build an agent
Mostly Technical | 85: Screencasting.com Launch Failure
The Steve Ballmer Interview: The Complete History and Strategy
TaskMaster AI Solutions
Claude Code Overview
AI Video Editor
Figma AI Creativity
Rand Fishkin on Marketing
...more
1h 33min
May 30, 2025Back from London UK – so much to talk about
Justin just got back from a big trip to London UK for the podcast industry conference, and honestly, it's got him thinking about some big thoughts about the podcasting medium. This episode starts out with an honest chat between Brian and Justin: 'How are you feeling about the podcast so far?'

Timestamps:
(00:06) - Just the two of us
(01:06) - The struggle with guests on a podcast
(10:33) - What if we did it live?
(16:46) - What's Justin been up to?
(20:28) - How does the shift in podcasting affect Transistor?
(24:50) - Justin's universal theory about podcasting
(39:51) - One reason Justin is hopeful
(43:42) - The pipeline problem is a big one for startups
(51:19) - How could Transistor work in a video podcast world
(57:53) - Why Justin is hopeful about Apple Podcasts
YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️
🎤 Send us an audio or video message
📧 Email us: [email protected]
📺 Leave a comment on YouTube
🦋 Reply on Bluesky
Links mentioned in this episode
The Podcast Show
Instrumental Components - Brian's new product
Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS product
Transistor.fm - Justin's company
...more
1h 10min

FAQs about The Panel:

How many episodes does The Panel have?

The podcast currently has 21 episodes available.

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