The Passionistas Project Podcast | Passionate Women Empowerment Hosts

Writer/producer Elle Johnson is currently an Executive Producer on the Amazon series Bosch. Previously she has worked on other TV series including CSI: Miami, Law & Order, Ghost Whisperer, Saving Grace and The Glades. Listen to this episode to find out how a New York City parole officer's daughter became a Los Angeles TV writer.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and if you enjoy listening to the show, please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going and you'll get rewards like buttons, access to premium content and invites to Passionistas Project events.

Today we're talking to writer/producer Elle Johnson. In addition to her current role as Executive Producer on the Amazon series Bosch, Elle has worked on the TV series CSI: Miami, Law and Order, Ghost Whisperer, Saving Grace and The Glades. So please welcome to the show Elle Johnson.

Elle Johnson: Thank you it's really wonderful to be here.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about?

Elle Johnson: [00:00:40] This is going to sound bizarrely selfish but I am most passionate about telling my stories. I have gotten to a point in my career, in my life, where I realized that the way I best communicate with the world and also the way I best process life is through telling stories. Writing them down. I came to writing late in life, or later I wasn't one of these people who started out as a kid and knew that I just wanted to be a writer. I had to discover that for myself. And once I discovered that that was the thing that made me happiest, I just wanted to learn how to be the best writer I could be and tell stories the best way that I could.

As I've written I've come to realized that I'm what I would refer to as a method writer in that I like to have an experience with something. So in order for me to write about something I feel like if I haven't already had a personal experience with it or some involvement with it, I like to go out and get that personal experience with it and kind of use that to inform my writing. And so that's enabled me to learn about everything and anything in the world that I want to and kind of insert myself into situations that I have no understanding of or no business being a part of. But suddenly I can learn about another part of the world. And to me that is I think the thing that drives me as a writer is being able to find stories that I can make my own and tell my stories.

Passionistas: [00:02:19] How do you translate that into what you do for a living?

Elle Johnson: [00:02:23] The great thing about being a television writer is so much of writing TV is exploring other worlds. And I primarily write cop shows. My dad was a parole officer in Manhattan for 30 years. My uncles were homicide detectives. I have a lot of law enforcement in my family and so I'm really comfortable with that world and also kind of with that character. It's a very particular personality who goes into law enforcement. I really feel like I understand that.

So while I generally have ended up working on cop show. And when you do a cop show, usually what happens is you have the detectives kind of walking in and out of different worlds. Whoever the victims are, whoever the suspects are you're usually entering their world. And that's what makes it fascinating for me because it makes it, I get to enter worlds. I get to decide OK this this week I want to discover what's going on in the world of fashion or in the world of anthropologists or just whatever it is. And then you get to do kind of a deep dive and really explore that.

And the best experience or one of the best experiences that I had in my career was working on a show called The Glades. And we had been approached about or asked by the network if we could find a way to do a story about NASCAR. And I said, "I'm a black girl from Queens. I don't know anything about NASCAR." But I started to do research and I realized it was this incredible world that in many ways was similar to being a writer or being in television in that they worked, most of the year. Like their season was I think you know 10 out of 12 months and the intensity of it and the passion with which they approached it I thought, "OK I kind of get what this world is." And I went to the Daytona 500 as part of my research and NASCAR opened their doors to me. They got me a hot pass. I was in the pits. I was meeting drivers. I was in the garages all of a sudden. And I just fell in love with this world and started going to races. And writing that episode I really had to kind of have my own experience with NASCAR and it ended up being a fantastic experience.

NASCAR gave us cars to put it in our show. They gave us the trucks. We shot at a Homestead in Miami. We had four drivers in our episode. And it just ended up taking over my life. But it was such a wonderful experience because I really got to do a deep dive and understand that world. So much so that they invited me at the end of the year to their championship dinner and put me on panels and flew me out to Las Vegas to participate. And it's just like I was included in this family and that's exactly the kind of experience I want to have as a writer where you say, "OK I don't know anything about this world but I'm going to find out about this world." And I really found out about a great.

Passionistas: [00:05:25] Tell us your path to becoming a writer/producer.

Elle Johnson: [00:05:27] I really didn't know what I want to do after college. And the smartest thing I did. Through all of the mistakes that I've made was saying to myself that I needed to take time to figure out what my passion was. Like what it was that I really wanted to do. So right after college I rode a bicycle across country with a group of students called the Ride for Life and we were raising money for Oxfam America and Save the Children. So it was during that bike ride where we biked back from San Francisco to Boston that I just kind of allowed myself to think about what do I want to do with my life? And being on the road on a bicycle, seeing the country thinking, seeing the country and meeting all kinds of different people and really just seeing how other people lived, helps me to understand that I had stories that I wanted to tell.

At the end of the ride, I ended up taking a job working at the American University in Cairo — an intern at the school. And I started my job was to write grant proposals for Egyptian students like soliciting American companies primarily like Raytheon. A lot of kind of defense contractors who were giving money to educate Egyptian students. And so I started, that was kind of my first quote unquote writing job writing those grants and proposals. And while I was in Egypt I just started writing stories about my life in the states like short stories.

When I got back to the states I got a job as a technical writer for a small company called Lutan Technologies that had created the computer program that allowed the Bank of Boston to track asset backed securities. I know this sounds crazy. It was that it was the computer program that allowed them to track their home mortgage loans or mortgage loans. And it was one of the first computer programs that did that and it was a startup company. I mean I didn't realize I was in a startup computer company but I was. And I was tasked with writing the technical manual to explain to the bankers how to use the system. I was a fine arts major. So this was not in my wheelhouse at all but I needed to use the system and figure out how to write it clearly so that people could understand. So I sort of started doing a little bit of technical writing and while I was doing technical writing I realized this was not the type of writing I wanted to do. I wanted to write stories and short stories.

So I applied for a Rotary scholarship to go to the University of East Anglia in England and learn creative writing. I did that for a year and started writing screenplays and while I was in England I was like, "Okay I've tried all these different types of writing. I want to try to get into film and television." So I went back to New York where I'm from and managed to get a job on a television show as a script coordinator, was my first job in television.

I did not know what a script coordinator was but they said don't worry about it will teach you what it is and it's basically using the computer program to generate the scripts that someone showed me how to do it. And all of a sudden I was surrounded by these professional television writers and working very closely with them and taking notes for them and working on the scripts and seeing how scripts come together and I was like, "Okay this is what I want to do." I want to write TV for the reason that I saw that there was so much that you could learn every day as you're trying to write your episode.

And also unlike film, television you have to produce a script. Like what you write is going to be produced because they need something for air. So something's going on the air whether it's good or bad and you're going to have something going on the air. And I thought this is great. This is a way to actually get your stuff made. And that was really my entree into writing for television.

And when I was writing on this show I met a writer by the name of Eric Overmeyer who became my mentor and has helped me throughout my career. He gave me my very first job in television and he's hired me on other shows including Bosch where he was the showrunner. He also hired me to work on Law and Order. He got me a job on a show called Street Time that was about parole officers and parolees which he knew was in my wheelhouse because my dad was a parole officer. So through that one job basically I found my mentor and kind of got my career.

Passionistas: [00:10:05] And what show was that?

Elle Johnson: [00:10:07] It was a show called The Cosby Mysteries staring Mr. Bill Cosby as a forensic expert in the NYPD. It was a very quirky show. His character had a housekeeper who had been a dancer and she was a very eccentric woman who never clean the house and she was played by Rita Moreno. He had a sidekick who was a young African-American kid who, the actor's name was Dante Beze and he left the show to become Mos Def. So it was just in terms of the people who were involved with it was kind of incredible. And on that show were a bunch of writers also who who worked on Law and Order. And it filmed in New York on Pier 62 which at that time, before it got built up into the pier that it is now, was kind of well known as a Mafia dumping ground for bodies. Just like abandoned pier situation that has since been refurbished and is now a place where a lot of television shows shoot. But it was kind of like the one hour drama ghetto. Law and Order was filming out of there and a show called Homicide was filming out of there. And Eric Overmeyer who was a writer on The Cosby Mysteries when that show got cancelled went to work on Homicide.

And I at that time was just trying to figure out how to actually become a working writer — make the jump from being a script coordinator to a working writer. So I'd moved out to L.A. and Eric Overmeyer and Tom Fontana were like, "Oh okay she's serious about becoming a writer because she actually moved out there." So Eric approached me about writing an episode of Homicide. And I was so grateful for the opportunity to do a freelance. He was doing something that at the time I didn't realize how incredible a gesture it was. He offered to split a script with me. Which I now realize is taking money out of his own pocket to give me an opportunity. But at that time Homicide was an NBC show and it was always on the bubble. They never knew if they were going to come back or not. So he offered me this with the caveat that they didn't know if they were going to have enough episodes or not.

And as it turned out they ended up saying you know we can't give you an episode because we have a writer on the show and her grandfather was a writer and he needed a credit to keep his health insurance which is a situation that happens all too frequently in this business. You know it's so hard to have a consistent career and sometimes you just need to do a freelance episode to keep your health insurance. And I totally understood that. So they were gonna give him the episode that was supposed to go to me. His name was Julius Epstein. And if you know anything about writing you know that he is one of the twins who wrote Casablanca. So if I had to be bumped by anybody needed health insurance I was like, that's totally fine go for it.

During the course of all of this happening Jerry Seinfeld decided that he was not going to continue with Seinfeld. So he told NBC. And NBC basically panicked and picked up all of their shows including Homicide. So all of a sudden they had more episodes so the guys say Homicide came back to me and said, "Oh we can give you an episode you can have one." I was like great. So I ended up writing the first part of a two parter. It was the ninety ninth episode. It was a big shoot out in the station. And they'd also said to me they wanted to do a story in the world of parole. And so they knew that I was a parole officer's daughter and that I would have a bunch of stories. So I went through my mental file of all the stories my dad had ever told me and came up with this story a very personal story to him that had really influenced him.

There was one of the few parole officers killed in the line of duty in New York. He was gunned down in the streets by his parolee. So I kind of knew a little bit of the inside story of who they thought it was and why it had happened. And so I basically just pitched them that story and that was the story that I ended up writing. My first episode of television. It was directed by Kathryn Bigelow. It was a great experience and a great way to get my feet wet in television.

Passionistas: [00:14:42] So then how do you make the transition from writer to producer?

Elle Johnson: [00:14:46] Making the transition from getting a freelance episode to staff writer is the first difficulty as well. So I was already in Los Angeles when I got this freelance episode. But I was working as a secretary at Sony Animation. And my boss was a lovely gentleman who understood that I wanted to be a writer and that this was kind of a day job for me. And that I was going to get out of there at 5 and go home and start writing. I had written this freelance episode and was in the process of just trying to get a staff job. The writer who helped me was a gentleman named Kevin Arkadine. A friend of my sister's who was in the industry got in touch with him and said, "Will you read this woman's samples and give her notes? She's trying to get into the business." And Kevin said to me later that he does this favor once a year for people. So I was once a year favor of reading my script.

He gave me notes. I didn't agree with all of the notes but I executed all of the notes because he'd spent the time to give me notes and I thought I want to show him that I can execute his notes. So he did his notes and gave him the script back and he was impressed. And when he got his own show he called me to come in and interview to be a writer. And that ended up being my first staff job on television. And he'd said to me because I had not only taken his notes but executed them, that he knew that I could do the job because I'd already kind of proven it to him.

So it was a show called Rescue 77. It was about firefighters and it was another great experience because we, I knew nothing about firefighters especially firefighters in L.A. So one of the first things that they had to do was go out on ride along with various fire departments. Sleep over in the station houses. I mean it was incredible in terms of doing research. And I went to a bunch of different station houses and rode with the paramedics and the firefighters. And they loved having people because according to them, it seemed busy to me, but according to the firefighters inevitably have when you have a ride along nothing happens. So it was like a superstition like great somebody in a station house so it's going to be quiet nothing's going to happen we'll be able to sit down and have dinner. It seemed busy to me but to them they're like others is the great we're not getting as many calls because you're here. But it was just kind of my entree into the power of being able to call someone up and say, "Hey I'm writing a television show. Can I come and do some research?" And then like the door gets opened and suddenly you're invited into all kinds of people's different worlds. And you can see how they do their jobs and how they live.

So that was my first staff writer job and I have been lucky enough to have worked every year since then. I've always had either a job on staff or have managed to sell a piece of development. That show Rescue 77, I think we only lasted five episodes. So this was at a time when it was primarily network television. We were on I think it was the UPN, like the Paramount Network, but there weren't too many choices in terms of television at that time.

So we're dealing with a network and it was my first experience of being on a set and feeling the panic when network executive shows up unannounced which I then learned means that you're going to be canceled. Like at first you think, "Oh how wonderful they're coming to check up on your show." And then all of the more seasoned people are like, oh no, this is what this means, because they don't ever come to check up after a certain point especially not like on the fifth episode. So we were canceled when the network executive showed up and everyone's like all right we're canceled. So after that you know I had an agent and my agent was great in terms of getting me onto my next gig.

Passionistas: [00:18:55] At what point did you make the step to be a producer as well?

Elle Johnson: [00:18:58] So on Rescue 77 I was a staff writer and then I went on another show. I think I was a staff writer again on a show called Ryan Caufield which is a show about a 21-year-old rookie police officer. And that was another show again that lasted I think I think we got canceled after maybe seven or eight episodes. At that point I was able to get on a show called Any Day Now, which was more a character driven show starred Annie Potts and Lorraine Toussant as friends, two women who had grown up together in Alabama during the Civil Rights Movement. And it kind of followed their lives when they were little girls and also adult women. And we cut back and forth between their lives and their stories and it was a great show. I was a story editor on that and I stayed on that show for two years and made it into the Co-Producer ranks before Annie Potts decided that she she wanted to stop acting for a while. I think that lasted for a year and then she did another show. But because that show went down. I kind of ended it as a Co-Producer.

And at that point Eric Overmeyer stepped back into my life. He'd met a gentleman who was doing a show about parole officers. The gentleman named Richard Stratton who had been like America's biggest pot smuggler had done 20 or was sentenced to 25 years in the federal pen for smuggling pot and he found a loophole in his sentencing and got out. And of course with that kind of background the only place that will take you was Hollywood. So he was able to sell his show about his experiences being a parolee and being a pot smuggler. And he'd met with Eric looking for writers. And Eric was like I have just the person for you about a show that includes a parole officer and his parolee. And so I met with Richard Stratton and he ended up hiring me to be on the show called Street Time which was a Showtime show that was like completely in my wheelhouse. It was so great we got to tell a lot of my dad's stories. You know a lot of kind of parole stories that I don't think I would have ever been able to put anywhere else because they were so specific.

And it was a really interesting experience for me as a young writer. It was a very small room. I think we had I think we had there were only four of us in total. And I was the only writer kind of in a lower level producer range everybody else was an EP or a Co-EP but very seasoned writers but they didn't have the same experience as I did having a parole officer for a father. And a lot of the show also dealt with the families of the parolee and the parole officers. So I know I had a ton of stories and kind of understood what it was like to be raised in a parole officer's house. And in terms of building confidence and navigating that experience I was interesting to be in the room with Richard and myself and then these kind of TV writers who were used to writing cop shows and they'd be like, OK well in this episode you know we had a storyline where one of the parole officers had to kill a parolee in the line of duty. And the other writers were talking about how, "Yeah we want to do a follow up episode where the parole officer is kind of wracked by guilt over having had to kill this parolee and how that affects him."

And I remember Richard and I looked at each other and started laughing and we're like, "That's not how the parole officer feels." And we were kind of just talking about from our experiences what we knew would have been going on and the parole officers had it's like it's him or me. This is part of the job. He's not racked with guilt. He did what he had to do. And so it was interesting to be in a situation where even though there's a lower level writer I kind of had experiences that could make the show more authentic.

And that was another show where I met met a writer, a wonderful writer named Clifton Campbell who then became definitely another mentor to me and has hired me on other jobs. He was the creator and showrunner of the show called The Glades. That he then hired me to work on because we had such a good experience working together on Street Time.

So a lot of it is relationships. A lot of it for me is getting into a room and doing the job and doing the job well with integrity knowing that you are mimicking somebody else's voice. You're there to make the showrunner job easier your job is as much as you want to infuse the stories with parts of yourself and tell your stories which I definitely want to do your main job is to execute the show and help the showrunner and get the voice of the show. So having learned that and having learned how to do that, that's always kind of kept me in good stead because I feel like people value that I'm going to come on a show and really try to give them what they need and what they want so that they're not constantly having to rewrite me. That they know that I'm going to try and hand in a script that's going to be as close to their voice as possible. As network ready as possible. And through that experience I kind of started to develop a set of rules for myself about how to how to be in a room what I wanted to be in terms of a writer. And I remember early on just through observation and how I interacted on a staff.

I came up with three rules that seemed to be the way that you had to comport yourself in a writers room. One was even if you didn't respect someone you always had to respectful because I want to be respected. But even if I don't agree with someone or I think you know always treat people with respect. The second thing was to do every note even if I don't agree with the note our I don't think it's going to work. I have to try it and prove it. Like execute the note. If it doesn't really work then at least you can say I didn't. It doesn't work. I tried it. I've really tried it but then it might work. Find a way to make it work. So execute every note.

And my last rule was more of a self-preservation one which was the money always wins. Which is you know we're artists we all want to we try to be good craftsmen you want to write something that's artful but at the end of the day you know the Medici is paying for them the Medici is the studio and the network and if they want something you have to give it to them because you'll get the note once and you might be like ah, I'm not going to. I'm not going to do that. And then you'll get the note again and you'll get the note and you'll get the note and you'll get the note until you execute the note or they fire you. So the money always wins. So you know we're there to not only execute the vision of a creator of a show but to provide a brand to provide something that the network is buying. And you have to find a way to maintain your integrity. Tell stories that you want to tell but also give the people who are buying it what they want.

Passionistas: [00:26:46] We're Amy Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Elle Johnson. Check out Elle's work on the TV series Bosch on Amazon.com, Now here's more of our conversation with Elle.

What challenges do you feel like you've faced as a woman and as a black woman in Hollywood?

Elle Johnson: [00:27:04] My experience as a woman of color writing in Hollywood has been I am... The reason I get in the room is because they're looking for a woman of color. They are specifically looking to fill that quota. They either feel like they have, there's a female character in the show so they're like oh we need a woman's perspective. There's a minority character in the show that they feel like they need that perspective and I kind of click off a couple of boxes for them. That's the reason that I get the first job usually. But then the reason that I get hired again by the same people is because I'm good. Yes I feel like that in a weird way, it's you know it feels like okay, maybe I'm being hired for something that seems like well it's limiting. But once they get in the door it's like I realized that my responsibility is to prove that I can write the show and write it really well. And also bring a perspective that people might not have. I know some writers feel like oh you don't want to be that person in the room where you're always pitching the black story or their gender story. And I feel the opposite way I feel like that's my responsibility. It's my... because nobody else is going to tell those stories. People are not... and I understand that to a degree when you're in a room and it's predominantly white men. They're not thinking from that perspective. So I have to bring that perspective. And always point out, "Hey there's another way of looking at this situation." Or you know this character has no life.

I've been in rooms where you know you have kind of the black female character. She's usually a lieutenant. An interesting thing kind of happens where you're on a show and they're staffing a show and people will realize that they they're not representing women or they're not. You know they want to have a person of color. And that and usually that person is usually delegated to like the lieutenant or somebody who's not there on the periphery there. They're there in a high position.

But you don't end up having to tell a lot of stories about them because they're not the main focus. I remember hearing someone joking about how if you watch television you would think that every judge in America is a black woman because that's what they cast because it's like, "oh right we need to put a black woman in here" or "we need to put a person of color." So they stick them into a role that you really don't get to see the full life of that person. There are a mouthpiece. You know they have a position of power but it's in terms of the story it's not really ever the main focus of the story. So I've been in situations and shows where you have the lieutenants or you know that that one character where it's like you don't go home with them. They seem to have no life. It's almost as though they only exist in the gaze of the main lead character who's usually a white man. And I feel like my job is to try to fill that character out. Like what do they do when they go home.

I've been on shows where I've said, "If this character for our Christmas episode ends up having Christmas with the main character because they have no family or friends I'm going to slash my wrists." Like this is completely ridiculous. This person has loved ones. They have friends. They have a life outside of this office. Please do not make them show up at somebody else's Christmas. Let's give them a life. And let's make a bigger story for them. So I feel like that is part of my job. To fill out the world of these other characters and say you know there's more going on with them than just the job. Let's do for these characters as we do for all the other characters.

Passionistas: [00:30:54] Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Elle Johnson: [00:30:57] Over the years I have had several mantras. It's really interesting that you ask that because I I'm a person who likes to make New Year's resolutions. So I like I love the holidays. I love December because I start to close out the year mentally and reflect on what I've done and start to think about what I'm going to do next year. And project into the next year. And over the course of my career, particularly when I first started out, I would come up with these mantras that I'd be like okay this is the mantra for the year going forward. And I remember one of my earlier ones was "You know it you must do. It's inside of you for a reason. Don't deny yourself any longer." And I would say that to myself every day. Like I'd wake up and be like "OK. You know what you must do. It's Inside of you for a reason. Don't deny yourself any longer." And that's how I kind of got myself to be a writer.

And one of my other mantras was it had to do with... "There's magic in the ether. You can do whatever you want. And you're responsible for whatever you have or don't have." But I love the idea of you know sometimes you look at a situation you look at like how do I become a television writer? How do I do this? How do people do this? And for me it was there's magic in the ether. You just got to go for the magic. There's there's something out there, I don't know, I can't explain how it happens but I'm going to believe that there's magic in the ether. And I'm going to make it happen somehow.

Right now it's you know December I'm kind of trying to figure out what my mantra for the year going forward is. Two years ago my mantra was "This is the year that you're going to fail at everything. And I decided that I was just going to start swinging hard. I knew I was going to fail. This is the year that you can make mistakes. You're going to fail. You're going to fall on your face and it's OK. But you got to take those big swings, big risks for big rewards. So my mantra was "This is the year that you fail at everything." And I really approached it as just try to try and allow yourself to fail miserably and see what happens.

Passionistas: [00:33:18] How did it turn out?

Elle Johnson: [00:33:18] It was great. You know, that was a year when I believe I had started pitching pilots for the first time. And I sold a pilot like my first time out it was an amazing experience. But I was willing to fail. And that was also one of the things that someone had said to me early on in my career when I first moved out to Los Angeles from New York he said you have to gamble Vegas style. You've picked something that you know it's impossible. There's no reason why you should succeed at this. So you're already gambling. So if you're going to gamble don't do scratch off if you're going to gamble gamble all of it. All of it go all end. Gamble Vegas style. And I was like You're right that's how you do it just go all in. There's no plan B. This is working. I'm spending everything on the table and that mindset of like this has to work because what else I going to do that works.

Passionistas: [00:34:24] So the journey so far what do you consider the most courageous thing you did?

Elle Johnson: [00:34:29] Moving out to L.A. I know I was... I'm a born and bred New Yorker... Didn't learn to drive 'til I was 21. The idea of having to come to a city where I owned a car and car insurance that alone was like, "How do people do that? What is that? I don't understand that. There's no subway? How will I exist here?" So the decision to leave my life in New York which included a boyfriend who was a neurosurgeon and African-American. My mother wanted to kill me like that relationship. I ended that relationship because I realized I that wasn't my life. I had to try this. I had to come out to L.A. and my parents were not supportive at all. They like you're insane you're ruining your life. We're watching you ruin your life and getting on a plane and coming out to sleep on somebody's couch with no job. And I'm like I'm just going to get a day job and trying right.

Passionistas: [00:35:38] Worked out okay.

Elle Johnson: [00:35:38] Yeah it worked. It worked out. Yes.

Passionistas: [00:35:42] Have you ever thought of quitting?

Elle Johnson: [00:35:45] No. Once I started it was like I'm doing this. This is you know I tell people who young writers who are coming up like, "Don't get out of line. Once you're in line don't get out of line because the person behind you is going to take your spot. You're going to move up. Just stay in line and keep doing what you're doing. You only fail when you stop trying. So just don't stop trying. It's still trying. You're still you can still do it. Keep stay in line and keep doing what you're doing."

Passionistas: [00:36:16] What's your secret to a rewarding life?

Elle Johnson: [00:36:19] Secret to a rewarding life is finding a way somehow to do what I want to do which is write. Finding a way to tell my stories and within my career early on I realized that I had to learn craft to get on shows that would challenge me even if it wasn't exactly the type of show that I wanted to write. Finding a way to express myself and to learn craft and really write well. So that now, 20 years in, I'm at a place where I kind of look around and not that I can pick and choose but that I can be more selective in terms of the things that I do. So you know as I get older I just realizing you only had a limited time and what do you want to spend time doing taking shows that maybe have fewer episodes but you love the material.

This last year I've been an Executive Producer on Bosche which is a dream job. A show that I love. It's just writing about L.A. Writing about cops in L.A. Writing the Harry Bosch character. Getting to work with Michael Connelly who's in our room is an amazing experience. And working with Eric Overmeyer again who was the showrunner who brought me on. It just it was an incredible experience.

But I only did half a year this year so that I could work on another show... Helped develop another show about Madame C.J. Walker. Which is she was the first African American millionaire in the late 1800s early 1800s. And telling her story of how she created an empire of haircare products for black women. It's just such an amazing story and I had to do it. I've really wanted to work on this show. The only way I could do it was if I spent half of my time on Bosch and the other half working on this show.

So I was co-running it with a woman named Janine Sherman Barrois, who runs a show called Claws. We were both in our writers room she was on Claws. I was on Bosch during the day. At 5 o'clock, we meet and start a second writers room to break the Madam C.J. story. But we were both so passionate about this story and the woman who created it. Nicole Jefferson Asher was this incredible feature film independent film writer. So the three of us were kind of like working on other projects full time and then coming together in the evenings to break the story because we wanted to. It's like I want to do this and that's what makes me happy even though it was like you know you're working until 10:00 at night doing two shows at the same time. But we were so passionate about the material and that's what makes me happy. Being able to work on stories tell stories that I want to tell. And incredibly like it having no time at all somehow you figure out how to fit it all in because you just you have to tell these stories.

Passionistas: [00:39:23] What's your definition of success?

Elle Johnson: [00:39:25] My definition of success is being happy. Being happy doing what you're doing. Being satisfied and being able to pursue something that is of interest and value to you. That's my definition of success.

Passionistas: [00:39:42] Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Elle Johnson. Check out Elle's work on the TV series Bosch on Amazon.com. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.

Clemence Gossett is the founder and co-owner of The Gourmandise School of Sweets and Savories in Santa Monica, California. Along with her partner, Sabrina Ironside, Clemence has built a school with a vision to expand the consumer’s education and experience of how to create amazing meals and treats out of locally sourced, sustainable ingredients, using the very finest techniques.

Read more about Clémence and the Goumandise.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. If you enjoy listening to the show please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going and you'll get rewards like buttons, access to premium content and invites to Passionistas Project events. Today we're talking with Clémence Gossett, co-founder of the Gourmandise School of Sweets and Savoryies in Santa Monica, California. Clémence and her partner, Sabrina Ironside, have built a cooking school that teaches students how to create amazing meals and treats out of locally sourced, sustainable ingredients, using the very finest techniques.

So, please welcome to the show Clémence Gossett.

Clémence: Thank you.

Passionistas: We're so excited to have you here.

Clémence: Thanks. This is fun.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about, Clémence?

Clémence: I think I'm most passionate about getting people to think. Just reminding people not to take anything at face value. Whether it's related to food or policy or whatever. Just having to think beyond like, "Oh I can just pick this up because it was designed for me." That sort of thing, if it relates to food.

Passionistas: How did you design this school to take advantage of that concept?

Clémence: The new iteration of the school, the new space we are in, was designed by Sabrina my business partner and myself in terms of the physical layout of the space. But the school came about through a series of very sort of serendipitous occasions. There was no day where I just sat down and was like, "You know, I think of cooking school." Because that doesn't make any sense. So it sort of evolved over a decade. But the physical layout of the space was designed by Sabrina and I with the input of all of our chef instructors.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your background. Were you born in Paris?

Clémence: I was born in Paris. I was born in Neuilly, which is like a little neighborhood in Paris. But I grew up in Paris spent. First seven years of my life there. And then we moved to the east coast of the U.S. And we finally settled right outside Washington, D.C. in Northern Virginia. I lived there until I was 18 and graduated from high school and left to go to college. And then finished college and that day it snowed on May 11th which was my graduation day. And it was like never again. So moved to LA, and I've been here 20 years.

Passionistas: Did growing up in Paris influence your culinary tastes?

Clémence: Most of my culinary influences come from after we left Paris. So my father's side of the family is from the south eastern part of France and right around the time when we moved to the US his parents decided to open up in retirement, n nobache — so like a little hotel and had a bar and a restaurant there. And so we would go during the summers and the winters to help them run the space during the busy season which meant like scooping a lot of ice cream — which was my favorite part doing a lot of dishes and just being around. And my grandmother ran the kitchen for the first year.

And my father always cooked. He didn't really necessarily work as a professional chef but we canned at home. He would string up his sheep in the backyard and roast it on a spit. You know there was a lot of like, :We just do this in our house." And I thought it was really weird and I was super embarrassed by it. But in the end just having no fear around food it was really sort of just describes my culinary background and knowing where everything came from. So in the little restaurant we would go every day go to the markets pick up the produce from the producers whether it was the mushroom guy or the woman who made goat cheese on her farm. So there was a connection. With everything that we ate that we really knew everybody who grew everything which I think was really special. I look back on it as being really special and the time I was to drive out there again. But. Very grateful.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your steps to opening this school. How did it come about?

Clémence: I went to school to study film. I wanted to be a documentary filmmaker. And then just ended up settling for a good sturdy job with benefits. So I worked while I was in college for Miramax and then I worked at Disney out here. And then Fox when I was working at Fox on Fridays I would sell cookies from my cubicle so I would take orders all week. And I had a great boss who probably overlooked more things. Very kindly some things. And then it kind of snowballed from there. A friend of mine who at the time just had a candy company and now has a couple of restaurants said, "you know can you bring those cookies you make two to my birthday party?" And I did. And a woman came up to me at the birthday party and was like, "oh you know what did these cookies?" And I said, "oh you know I sell them at my cubicle, you know at Fox and I rent a kitchen on the weekends to sell to a couple of coffee shops." And she thought it was a great story and she was like, "Oh you know produce a show called Good Food." And so a few weeks later we were on Good Food, which was probably 15 years ago.

And after that aired it was one of those things where I had just had a baby. The show aired and so I quit. And I rented the kitchen more full time and started selling online and to some coffee shops. And then I got really tired after four years of not sleeping. And so I started teaching classes. And I got a call from a cooking school to run the pastry part of their curriculum and sort of observe how they ran their business and thought feel like there's a different way of teaching. And so I went to surface which is this great culinary resource in L.A. at the time it was in Culver City and I asked them. Would you rent space from your test kitchen? And they really know and. So I said what about $75 an hour and they were like Oh yeah that sounds like a good plan.

So we taught classes out of there and out of this other kitchen in Venice. And then couldn't teach at night because those spaces weren't available and just really thought. There was there needs to be a physical space and a home for this. And at that time I had a business partner and we came together and opened up in this kittle concept on the third floor of a mall by the ocean. And then my new business partner Sabrina came into the picture about three years ago and really helped us grow this into what it is today. This face is much bigger. It's definitely less like we can do in this little 900 square foot room you know including the dish room and the pantry. And this is definitely legit. It has you know compartmentalize faces and prep kitchen. And we have an office.

Passionistas: What makes this school different than other cooking schools?

Clémence: So I think every cooking school has their defining qualities. For us the most important thing is for people to make these things at home and to teach without judgment and with a lot of kindness and really great skill. So you know we have three hour classes, our classes are a minimum of three hours. They're all hands on. And you're never sort of sharing the station with more than one person. And everybody here makes everything on the menu. So instead of sort of saying oh this group's get a make salad and this group will make dessert. You know we have a smaller menu four to six dishes and a three hour period where everybody makes every, every meal. So then we sit down at the end and have a meal and answer questions.

Passionistas: What kinds of classes do you teach?

Clémence: We have about 12 chefs on staff now and everybody teaches their own specialty which is super important because I think cultural connections and context are a really big part of food stories not just about like oh cut cut the onion this way but you know in our culture we use onions in this fashion. So every instructor here comes with cultural context. So you know if you're going to teach a Thai class you need to have a connection to Thai cuisine somehow. So the kinds of classes we teach are a mix of what the chefs are bringing to us. Or classes that we've developed that are really technique based. So we have knife skills, beef technique, chicken technique, the sauce class, how to cook an egg. There was a three hour class just on eggs which is really fascinating. And then we have cuisine classes that are taught by the instructors because it's the cuisine they grew up with. So we have a Scandinavian breads and pastries. We have Thai classics we have cuisine from Laos. We have a great chef who's got an awesome story. About his background as a refugee from Laos and has started bringing that cuisine to the forefront. We have Italian and we have all sorts of classes. It's really inspiring to watch people get to express themselves and share through cooking and tell their stories.

Passionistas: It seems like you use a lot of locally sourced ingredients. Why is that important to you?

Clémence: We primarily use the Santa Monica farmer's market for all our produce. Some of our proteins and a lot of our grains. So the reason we picked this location to begin with seven years ago is that it's a stone's throw and a walking distance to the Wednesday and Saturday Santa Monica markets. I have always had a very close relationship with a lot of the farmers. We visit the farms often and we send our kids up there they send their kids to us. There's a great symbiotic relationship between the needs of chefs and cooking schools and restaurants and what the growers grow at having that connection is really helped to buoy a lot of these industries and a lot of these new agricultural products such as grains. So we have this little mill and we test out grains the different farmers are growing and we'll hit one that we love like a variety of corn that makes an awesome cookie or a hard red wheat that makes a fantastic bread and then we can go back and say next season can you plant this amount more. Because we think we can sell it.

Passionistas: So why do you think it's important to inspire people to think about what they're cooking?

Clémence: It's so important for people to learn how to cook. Number one because it's a skill everyone should have. It saves money. It creates connections. It can help decompress you if you sort of learn to not be afraid of the process. But knowing where your ingredients come from and being an active part of your economy is so important. So it's deeper than just like oh shop at a farmers market. It's about you know what do you want your food system to look like?

In this country not only do you have a voice and you're able to vote without too many boundaries. But this is the one country in the world where your dollar and the way that you spend it speaks volumes. So I can think of another place where it's more important to make. Everyday purchasing decisions to mirror what you want your home to look like and that can be in your community. It can mean your state. It can be. The federal government. It doesn't matter like we are all responsible for. How we want our country to be run. And when you make purchasing decisions that is a vote for a particular economy it is a vote for a food system. So we talk a lot about policy and not politics here. We talk a lot about because we have some lecture classes that have to do with trade routes geography history food where are you food comes from. Meet the farmer that sort of thing. But what we really want to inspire people to think beyond like oh this is just organic in a plastic package at the grocery store what does that mean. You know if it was its fits triple washed lettuce it's being washed with chemicals whether it's organic or not you probably don't want in your lettuce. It's being packed in a factory that may not have very responsible or ethical practices regarding their employees. So. It's about thinking one step beyond not just taking things at face value that presented to you but to go one step further.

Passionistas: What would you say to someone who finds cooking daunting and overwhelming? How do you help those people?

Clémence: So if somebody comes here and I'm in a class it's clear to see sort of who's coming in with a lot of nervous energy or is unsure or comes in and says I have no idea what I'm doing. Like it's OK. So we were all born that way. Not knowing what we're doing and things don't have to be perfect. So the first step is just to make a dish that has less than six ingredients where you can taste each ingredient and learn how to cook each ingredient work with them. So I had a cut and I knew. How to work with garlic. How to cook grains how to cook pasta how to cook meats and how to use herbs seasonings and acids to make a dish. Balanced and delicious. It's really simple when you break it down and you know we like to introduce sort of new techniques and classes. But in the end it's about keeping things really simple.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about the store that you have inside the school?

Clémence: We have a store in the front of the school and we're very careful because we really want our classes to drive what we sell. So one is I don't believe in single use gadgets in the kitchen. The only single use item we have is a cherry picker and we use it for three weeks out of the year. Every single day to cherries are out of season but yeah we want everything in your kitchen to be meaningful. Right so everything in your life should have meaning and it means not just like oh it's beautiful but is it functional. Do I need it? Is it beautiful? And was it crafted well. and with kindness?

In our store we have items that we've curated very carefully based on what we use in class. So we don't want you to have any tools that are superfluous in the kitchen. We just like a really good basic kitchen so you can focus on the ingredients and the technique rather than oh I need an egg separator. It's your hand. You can separate eggs with your hand.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Clémence Gossett. To learn more about the class schedule to shop and to find some incredible recipes. Visit the GormandiseSchool.com. Now here's more of our interview with Clémence.

Passionistas: You're a mother of three and a successful business owner. So what's your daily routine?

Clémence: So my daily routine. Because my youngest child is 7 involves waking up around five thirty in the morning. And what do we do when we wake up? So my son likes to make eggs in the morning so we get up and we make eggs and we get ready for school. We pack our lunch which is usually leftovers from the night before. Then we go to school and then so I drop him off at school and then I come to work if I have a class that I'm teaching prepping just teaching because otherwise it's meetings just either farmers market so I don't schedule anything on Wednesdays. Wednesday is Farmer's Market Day which is church for me so we're at the market just meeting with farmers with our friends with other shops getting ideas collaborating but all the other days are just either spent teaching classes or holding meetings because it's is kind of a big operation. We have 20 employees and 12 chefs to work with and a calendar. That I spend a lot of time trying to manage and then I always leave here by 5:00 because I got to pick up my little one and when we go home and we make dinner we have a couple of neighbors who have other kids and we try at least twice a week to do communal dinners together and then he's in bed by 7 thirty so that by 8:00 o'clock going back on the computer. Trying to get stuff done. They to bed at 9 o'clock. It's Groundhog Day all over again.

Passionistas: What do you do with all the days you feel unmotivated and don't want to do that?

Clémence: Oh gosh I wish I had a day where I could have the luxury of feeling unmotivated and not wanting to do that. I think when you have kids and you just don't have a choice you just have to be really nice to feel like that. I don't know. I mean there are definitely. We all have our good days and bad days. This is what I've learned about being a business owner when everything is a priority. Nothing is a priority. So you know you can make a list you can start things you can highlight things that in the end you just kind of do the best you can everyday and fires and and try to take two steps forward without taking too many steps back. It's like the constant email like I try to do e-mails at 1:00 in the morning so that nobody's emailing me back. So you just feel like your inbox is shrinking but then people like why were you emailing me at 1:00 in the morning? Can't win.

Passionistas: Is there one lesson you've learned so far in your journey that sticks with you?

Clémence: If there's one lesson that I've learned along this journey is I find serendipity to be really magical. I think people are really awesome. I don't know if this is a lesson but. I'm just so grateful to be in a community with people who believe in what they do and live it with their entire lives and their talent. My world is really small my world is comprised of like bakers and farmers. And activists. And business people that really help to manage these personalities but I'm so grateful to be around people who put their ideals. And their craft first. The lesson is be present be grateful. Surround yourself with really good people who do good work for good reasons and keep your life simple. So the reason that I'm able to do this is because I lead a really really simple life. So I have a rent controlled apartment. In Santa Monica that I can never leave. For one I bought a car cash. I just live like with just what I need. So I don't have the stress and the pull of constantly trying to manage things that I can't support so I have my kids. I have my friends and my loves. And work. And. That's it. I keep it simple. My baseline for life is pretty low. So every day that something happens extra is like euphoric.

Passionistas: What's been the biggest challenge that you've faced and how do you overcome it?

Clémence: So I think my biggest challenge is that I'm not good at a lot of things so I'm not really good at math and I'm not great at structure even though I need it. I'm super grateful that I have a great business partner and a general manager here. But see where's structure is needed here at the school. But yeah my my biggest challenge is. Being in my head a lot.

Passionistas: What's the most rewarding part of your career?

Clémence: The most rewarding part of my career is connection. The thing I had to get back to is sort of this life that I lived with my family in France where everything was really basic and simple. We got our ingredients. We made food out of them. We wash the linens we made the beds. That is how we earned our money right. It's just like being able to see the tangible results of work and that's in part why I started this business because I was working at Fox and my son would be you know I would pick him up from the daycare which was on the lot. And I would he would sit with me at lunchtime that it would take him back and he was always like Oh I have to go back so you can play on the computer. There was no connection for him between work and what I brought home to pay the bills. And that's something that didn't love. And really being able to show and put output to my kids so they can see like oh we work hard. Mama needs to make 20 pies so that we can sign up for basketball. And you don't want to give kids any guilt trip but you do want them to see that it takes some output to get input and see the value in it.

Passionistas: On your journey so far hasn't been one moment that you felt like was the most courageous that sort of was a pivotal moment?

Clémence: I don't think courage has anything to do with it. I take risks but I'm not so afraid of them I say. I think I saw my parents were both entrepreneurs take a lot of risks and so I think that's actually a terrible trait that I have where it's like everything is going to work out. This is a great idea. Let's just do it. So that's not courage it's just sometimes stupidity. I gave birth to three people I think for me. Those were the days that are the most incredible. Those are. My maybe three days.

Passionistas: What lessons did your mother or other influential women in your life teach you about women's roles in society?

Clémence: When I think about the women in my life. Well first of all my mother who is an honest Warner and just really there are people in my life who are very cerebral and intelligent. So like my mother and my sister are very cerebral people with a lot of creativity but you know who can write like a great paper. That's not me. I find that amazing when people can be both like really really intelligent and good expressing themselves. And then there are women in my life who are really who had a great deal of emotional intelligence. And my mother and my sister due to.

My godmother and my aunt are two people who influenced me because of their energy. They were always just quiet and calm and good listeners and something I strive towards because it's definitely a bit of a weakness. But yeah my my my friend and my godmother can see. Just really unique people quit a very. They both have a very specific sense of style and are just very. Kind and calm and. Good listeners. And my grandmother. On my father's side is. She's 92 and. She's still lives alone and cooks every day and she was a seamstress for a long time and as a child I just always remember seeing her hands and and how beautiful they were even though they sort of failed her at times. And and just watching her cook and just always going always going always going and um and my grandmother on my mother's side and to bake with me. We had our little village in Paris. It was a cheese shop and you put on your we got our fish and that's about where we would get she would get. Her drink every night and I would get an orange juice and. Yeah. Just. Those people who knew their village.

Passionistas: What about professional mentors who had mentors along the way?

Clémence: There were a couple of women particularly in Los Angeles who first of all the food community in L.A. is really just outrageously kind. Especially with women. So the women who took their time to sit with me or to nurture ideas or you know when when we couldn't find a sitter and you had to go in the kitchen overnight we'd bring over a bean bag so the kids could sleep there. I mean. Awesome. So Christine Moore is one of them. Ebvan Kleinmen. Other mentors in my life and just been people who have been in this circle and this wonderful community. Nan Kohler from Gtist and Toll is this amazing woman who mills flour and just knows who she is and knows the meaning of what she's doing and is unapologetic and so inspiring. There are so many great people here.

Passionistas: What's your secret to a rewarding lif?

Clémence: My secret to a rewarding life is just to live a really really simple life. And fill it with great people and great food. I keep it really simple. You don't need new furniture. It be nice but in the end like just keep life really simple and fill it with beautiful people and beautiful things. That you can eat like chocolate.

Passionistas: Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Clémence: My mantra up until I was about 20 and going through some really difficult periods was "shit happens move on." And then when I had kids it was. It just felt really defeatist and shallow to say it. I don't know that there's any mantras that I live by now other than just be kind. And do your best. And. In business I do have one. And it is under promise and over deliver. Because I used to. Over promise and then I'd end up under delivering and I would just flatten me for days or weeks. But yeah Under promise over deliver.

Passionistas: What's your definition of success?

Clémence: What my definition of success is. To create a business where our employees our able to earn a great living wage. So that for me is success. When your business is sustainable which means that the food you're buying is sustainable and the people who are growing it are earning a sustainable living to be self-sufficient essentially to create an environment where people feel inspired. People want to come to work. And the product that you sell you feel really proud of and you can stand behind and that's hard. And we don't always. Achieve that. You know you just you have goals and you share ideas and you work with other business people and figure out what they're doing and you do your best. It's hard. In California it's really hard.

Passionistas: What's your proudest career achievement?

Clémence: I think maybe my proudest career achievement has nothing to do with my career. And just. Like having been able to raise. Three kids. And do what I love also opening this new location is pretty awesome. Because we have an amazing team. But the two things are like making chocolate from scratch. And making great sourdough bread. So I like I always you know when I sit down and have a few minutes at night to think about like growing my craft I always go back to that like I don't have time to gro my craft or to really you know do R&D more and because running the business takes up so much time. And I know these kids have to keep alive and fed.

So every now and then I try to really hone in on something and they become really a little obsessed. So maybe in the last seven or eight years being able to really hone in on breadmaking and then working with Ruth our chocolate maker on our bean to bar classes and. Repeating the same thing that we've done with bread which is like find the greatest wheat that's grown the most sustainably and milled in a beautiful way and making great bread from it. In the same way that we're sort of reaching out to the chocolate growers and community of chocolate makers here and buying a couple of pieces of equipment to make really great chocolate. Literally from scratch.

Passionistas: What advice would you give to your woman who wants to get into the culinary arts?

Clémence: I teach this class called the business of food which is essentially a class to weed out whether you want to work in food or not because you really should only work in food if you can't not do it. This is a really physically, emotionally, financially demanding industry. That has at times been very unkind to women. And in many ways continues to be. And so I would say for a woman who is looking to work in food is work for somebody who's kind. And tough.

And it's going to hurt. And I just keep reminding students because we're a recreational school but we work with schools like L.A. Trade Tech on mentorship or doing special field trips and lectures. But it's just to remind yourself that it's about the work. So if somebody is commenting on your scone it's not about you. It's about the scone. And to just like manage your emotions while developing a craft that's coming from your soul which is really challenging. Because as women in food we're here because we nurture and we create and it's coming from not just our hands but you know our heart and our soul so it can be sometimes difficult to separate the two but.

Passionistas: If you could be eating anything in the world anywhere right now what would you want and why?

Clémence: My grandmother had this dessert at her restaurant called [french word] and she just needed to make desserts that she could liked make ahead and pop out right. So there was caramelized puff pastry. I believe it was vanilla ice cream and she would warm up honey with toasted almonds. Put a little bit of black current jam at the bottom of the plate. And then pour the honey and almonds over the puff pastry with the ice cream. If I can eat that in the village. On a hot day I probably feel really good. I would feel just as good though taking a piece of sourdough bread. And slathering it with our chocolate and some sea salt. That would also feel great. So sugar and warmth. So sugar and sunshine.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview Clémence Gossett. Visit the GormandiseSchool.com to learn more about the schedule for classes, the shop and to find some incredible recipes. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Clemence Gossett is the founder and co-owner of The Gourmandise School of Sweets and Savories in Santa Monica, California. Along with her partner, Sabrina Ironside, Clemence has built a school with a vision to expand the consumer’s education and experience of how to create amazing meals and treats out of locally sourced, sustainable ingredients, using the very finest techniques.

Read more about Clémence and the Goumandise.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

----more----

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. If you enjoy listening to the show please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going and you'll get rewards like buttons, access to premium content and invites to Passionistas Project events. Today we're talking with Clémence Gossett, co-founder of the Gourmandise School of Sweets and Savoryies in Santa Monica, California. Clémence and her partner, Sabrina Ironside, have built a cooking school that teaches students how to create amazing meals and treats out of locally sourced, sustainable ingredients, using the very finest techniques.

So, please welcome to the show Clémence Gossett.

Clémence: Thank you.

Passionistas: We're so excited to have you here.

Clémence: Thanks. This is fun.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about, Clémence?

Clémence: I think I'm most passionate about getting people to think. Just reminding people not to take anything at face value. Whether it's related to food or policy or whatever. Just having to think beyond like, "Oh I can just pick this up because it was designed for me." That sort of thing, if it relates to food.

Passionistas: How did you design this school to take advantage of that concept?

Clémence: The new iteration of the school, the new space we are in, was designed by Sabrina my business partner and myself in terms of the physical layout of the space. But the school came about through a series of very sort of serendipitous occasions. There was no day where I just sat down and was like, "You know, I think of cooking school." Because that doesn't make any sense. So it sort of evolved over a decade. But the physical layout of the space was designed by Sabrina and I with the input of all of our chef instructors.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your background. Were you born in Paris?

Clémence: I was born in Paris. I was born in Neuilly, which is like a little neighborhood in Paris. But I grew up in Paris spent. First seven years of my life there. And then we moved to the east coast of the U.S. And we finally settled right outside Washington, D.C. in Northern Virginia. I lived there until I was 18 and graduated from high school and left to go to college. And then finished college and that day it snowed on May 11th which was my graduation day. And it was like never again. So moved to LA, and I've been here 20 years.

Passionistas: Did growing up in Paris influence your culinary tastes?

Clémence: Most of my culinary influences come from after we left Paris. So my father's side of the family is from the south eastern part of France and right around the time when we moved to the US his parents decided to open up in retirement, n nobache — so like a little hotel and had a bar and a restaurant there. And so we would go during the summers and the winters to help them run the space during the busy season which meant like scooping a lot of ice cream — which was my favorite part doing a lot of dishes and just being around. And my grandmother ran the kitchen for the first year.

And my father always cooked. He didn't really necessarily work as a professional chef but we canned at home. He would string up his sheep in the backyard and roast it on a spit. You know there was a lot of like, :We just do this in our house." And I thought it was really weird and I was super embarrassed by it. But in the end just having no fear around food it was really sort of just describes my culinary background and knowing where everything came from. So in the little restaurant we would go every day go to the markets pick up the produce from the producers whether it was the mushroom guy or the woman who made goat cheese on her farm. So there was a connection. With everything that we ate that we really knew everybody who grew everything which I think was really special. I look back on it as being really special and the time I was to drive out there again. But. Very grateful.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your steps to opening this school. How did it come about?

Clémence: I went to school to study film. I wanted to be a documentary filmmaker. And then just ended up settling for a good sturdy job with benefits. So I worked while I was in college for Miramax and then I worked at Disney out here. And then Fox when I was working at Fox on Fridays I would sell cookies from my cubicle so I would take orders all week. And I had a great boss who probably overlooked more things. Very kindly some things. And then it kind of snowballed from there. A friend of mine who at the time just had a candy company and now has a couple of restaurants said, "you know can you bring those cookies you make two to my birthday party?" And I did. And a woman came up to me at the birthday party and was like, "oh you know what did these cookies?" And I said, "oh you know I sell them at my cubicle, you know at Fox and I rent a kitchen on the weekends to sell to a couple of coffee shops." And she thought it was a great story and she was like, "Oh you know produce a show called Good Food." And so a few weeks later we were on Good Food, which was probably 15 years ago.

And after that aired it was one of those things where I had just had a baby. The show aired and so I quit. And I rented the kitchen more full time and started selling online and to some coffee shops. And then I got really tired after four years of not sleeping. And so I started teaching classes. And I got a call from a cooking school to run the pastry part of their curriculum and sort of observe how they ran their business and thought feel like there's a different way of teaching. And so I went to surface which is this great culinary resource in L.A. at the time it was in Culver City and I asked them. Would you rent space from your test kitchen? And they really know and. So I said what about $75 an hour and they were like Oh yeah that sounds like a good plan.

So we taught classes out of there and out of this other kitchen in Venice. And then couldn't teach at night because those spaces weren't available and just really thought. There was there needs to be a physical space and a home for this. And at that time I had a business partner and we came together and opened up in this kittle concept on the third floor of a mall by the ocean. And then my new business partner Sabrina came into the picture about three years ago and really helped us grow this into what it is today. This face is much bigger. It's definitely less like we can do in this little 900 square foot room you know including the dish room and the pantry. And this is definitely legit. It has you know compartmentalize faces and prep kitchen. And we have an office.

Passionistas: What makes this school different than other cooking schools?

Clémence: So I think every cooking school has their defining qualities. For us the most important thing is for people to make these things at home and to teach without judgment and with a lot of kindness and really great skill. So you know we have three hour classes, our classes are a minimum of three hours. They're all hands on. And you're never sort of sharing the station with more than one person. And everybody here makes everything on the menu. So instead of sort of saying oh this group's get a make salad and this group will make dessert. You know we have a smaller menu four to six dishes and a three hour period where everybody makes every, every meal. So then we sit down at the end and have a meal and answer questions.

Passionistas: What kinds of classes do you teach?

Clémence: We have about 12 chefs on staff now and everybody teaches their own specialty which is super important because I think cultural connections and context are a really big part of food stories not just about like oh cut cut the onion this way but you know in our culture we use onions in this fashion. So every instructor here comes with cultural context. So you know if you're going to teach a Thai class you need to have a connection to Thai cuisine somehow. So the kinds of classes we teach are a mix of what the chefs are bringing to us. Or classes that we've developed that are really technique based. So we have knife skills, beef technique, chicken technique, the sauce class, how to cook an egg. There was a three hour class just on eggs which is really fascinating. And then we have cuisine classes that are taught by the instructors because it's the cuisine they grew up with. So we have a Scandinavian breads and pastries. We have Thai classics we have cuisine from Laos. We have a great chef who's got an awesome story. About his background as a refugee from Laos and has started bringing that cuisine to the forefront. We have Italian and we have all sorts of classes. It's really inspiring to watch people get to express themselves and share through cooking and tell their stories.

Passionistas: It seems like you use a lot of locally sourced ingredients. Why is that important to you?

Clémence: We primarily use the Santa Monica farmer's market for all our produce. Some of our proteins and a lot of our grains. So the reason we picked this location to begin with seven years ago is that it's a stone's throw and a walking distance to the Wednesday and Saturday Santa Monica markets. I have always had a very close relationship with a lot of the farmers. We visit the farms often and we send our kids up there they send their kids to us. There's a great symbiotic relationship between the needs of chefs and cooking schools and restaurants and what the growers grow at having that connection is really helped to buoy a lot of these industries and a lot of these new agricultural products such as grains. So we have this little mill and we test out grains the different farmers are growing and we'll hit one that we love like a variety of corn that makes an awesome cookie or a hard red wheat that makes a fantastic bread and then we can go back and say next season can you plant this amount more. Because we think we can sell it.

Passionistas: So why do you think it's important to inspire people to think about what they're cooking?

Clémence: It's so important for people to learn how to cook. Number one because it's a skill everyone should have. It saves money. It creates connections. It can help decompress you if you sort of learn to not be afraid of the process. But knowing where your ingredients come from and being an active part of your economy is so important. So it's deeper than just like oh shop at a farmers market. It's about you know what do you want your food system to look like?

In this country not only do you have a voice and you're able to vote without too many boundaries. But this is the one country in the world where your dollar and the way that you spend it speaks volumes. So I can think of another place where it's more important to make. Everyday purchasing decisions to mirror what you want your home to look like and that can be in your community. It can mean your state. It can be. The federal government. It doesn't matter like we are all responsible for. How we want our country to be run. And when you make purchasing decisions that is a vote for a particular economy it is a vote for a food system. So we talk a lot about policy and not politics here. We talk a lot about because we have some lecture classes that have to do with trade routes geography history food where are you food comes from. Meet the farmer that sort of thing. But what we really want to inspire people to think beyond like oh this is just organic in a plastic package at the grocery store what does that mean. You know if it was its fits triple washed lettuce it's being washed with chemicals whether it's organic or not you probably don't want in your lettuce. It's being packed in a factory that may not have very responsible or ethical practices regarding their employees. So. It's about thinking one step beyond not just taking things at face value that presented to you but to go one step further.

Passionistas: What would you say to someone who finds cooking daunting and overwhelming? How do you help those people?

Clémence: So if somebody comes here and I'm in a class it's clear to see sort of who's coming in with a lot of nervous energy or is unsure or comes in and says I have no idea what I'm doing. Like it's OK. So we were all born that way. Not knowing what we're doing and things don't have to be perfect. So the first step is just to make a dish that has less than six ingredients where you can taste each ingredient and learn how to cook each ingredient work with them. So I had a cut and I knew. How to work with garlic. How to cook grains how to cook pasta how to cook meats and how to use herbs seasonings and acids to make a dish. Balanced and delicious. It's really simple when you break it down and you know we like to introduce sort of new techniques and classes. But in the end it's about keeping things really simple.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about the store that you have inside the school?

Clémence: We have a store in the front of the school and we're very careful because we really want our classes to drive what we sell. So one is I don't believe in single use gadgets in the kitchen. The only single use item we have is a cherry picker and we use it for three weeks out of the year. Every single day to cherries are out of season but yeah we want everything in your kitchen to be meaningful. Right so everything in your life should have meaning and it means not just like oh it's beautiful but is it functional. Do I need it? Is it beautiful? And was it crafted well. and with kindness?

In our store we have items that we've curated very carefully based on what we use in class. So we don't want you to have any tools that are superfluous in the kitchen. We just like a really good basic kitchen so you can focus on the ingredients and the technique rather than oh I need an egg separator. It's your hand. You can separate eggs with your hand.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Clémence Gossett. To learn more about the class schedule to shop and to find some incredible recipes. Visit the GormandiseSchool.com. Now here's more of our interview with Clémence.

Passionistas: You're a mother of three and a successful business owner. So what's your daily routine?

Clémence: So my daily routine. Because my youngest child is 7 involves waking up around five thirty in the morning. And what do we do when we wake up? So my son likes to make eggs in the morning so we get up and we make eggs and we get ready for school. We pack our lunch which is usually leftovers from the night before. Then we go to school and then so I drop him off at school and then I come to work if I have a class that I'm teaching prepping just teaching because otherwise it's meetings just either farmers market so I don't schedule anything on Wednesdays. Wednesday is Farmer's Market Day which is church for me so we're at the market just meeting with farmers with our friends with other shops getting ideas collaborating but all the other days are just either spent teaching classes or holding meetings because it's is kind of a big operation. We have 20 employees and 12 chefs to work with and a calendar. That I spend a lot of time trying to manage and then I always leave here by 5:00 because I got to pick up my little one and when we go home and we make dinner we have a couple of neighbors who have other kids and we try at least twice a week to do communal dinners together and then he's in bed by 7 thirty so that by 8:00 o'clock going back on the computer. Trying to get stuff done. They to bed at 9 o'clock. It's Groundhog Day all over again.

Passionistas: What do you do with all the days you feel unmotivated and don't want to do that?

Clémence: Oh gosh I wish I had a day where I could have the luxury of feeling unmotivated and not wanting to do that. I think when you have kids and you just don't have a choice you just have to be really nice to feel like that. I don't know. I mean there are definitely. We all have our good days and bad days. This is what I've learned about being a business owner when everything is a priority. Nothing is a priority. So you know you can make a list you can start things you can highlight things that in the end you just kind of do the best you can everyday and fires and and try to take two steps forward without taking too many steps back. It's like the constant email like I try to do e-mails at 1:00 in the morning so that nobody's emailing me back. So you just feel like your inbox is shrinking but then people like why were you emailing me at 1:00 in the morning? Can't win.

Passionistas: Is there one lesson you've learned so far in your journey that sticks with you?

Clémence: If there's one lesson that I've learned along this journey is I find serendipity to be really magical. I think people are really awesome. I don't know if this is a lesson but. I'm just so grateful to be in a community with people who believe in what they do and live it with their entire lives and their talent. My world is really small my world is comprised of like bakers and farmers. And activists. And business people that really help to manage these personalities but I'm so grateful to be around people who put their ideals. And their craft first. The lesson is be present be grateful. Surround yourself with really good people who do good work for good reasons and keep your life simple. So the reason that I'm able to do this is because I lead a really really simple life. So I have a rent controlled apartment. In Santa Monica that I can never leave. For one I bought a car cash. I just live like with just what I need. So I don't have the stress and the pull of constantly trying to manage things that I can't support so I have my kids. I have my friends and my loves. And work. And. That's it. I keep it simple. My baseline for life is pretty low. So every day that something happens extra is like euphoric.

Passionistas: What's been the biggest challenge that you've faced and how do you overcome it?

Clémence: So I think my biggest challenge is that I'm not good at a lot of things so I'm not really good at math and I'm not great at structure even though I need it. I'm super grateful that I have a great business partner and a general manager here. But see where's structure is needed here at the school. But yeah my my biggest challenge is. Being in my head a lot.

Passionistas: What's the most rewarding part of your career?

Clémence: The most rewarding part of my career is connection. The thing I had to get back to is sort of this life that I lived with my family in France where everything was really basic and simple. We got our ingredients. We made food out of them. We wash the linens we made the beds. That is how we earned our money right. It's just like being able to see the tangible results of work and that's in part why I started this business because I was working at Fox and my son would be you know I would pick him up from the daycare which was on the lot. And I would he would sit with me at lunchtime that it would take him back and he was always like Oh I have to go back so you can play on the computer. There was no connection for him between work and what I brought home to pay the bills. And that's something that didn't love. And really being able to show and put output to my kids so they can see like oh we work hard. Mama needs to make 20 pies so that we can sign up for basketball. And you don't want to give kids any guilt trip but you do want them to see that it takes some output to get input and see the value in it.

Passionistas: On your journey so far hasn't been one moment that you felt like was the most courageous that sort of was a pivotal moment?

Clémence: I don't think courage has anything to do with it. I take risks but I'm not so afraid of them I say. I think I saw my parents were both entrepreneurs take a lot of risks and so I think that's actually a terrible trait that I have where it's like everything is going to work out. This is a great idea. Let's just do it. So that's not courage it's just sometimes stupidity. I gave birth to three people I think for me. Those were the days that are the most incredible. Those are. My maybe three days.

Passionistas: What lessons did your mother or other influential women in your life teach you about women's roles in society?

Clémence: When I think about the women in my life. Well first of all my mother who is an honest Warner and just really there are people in my life who are very cerebral and intelligent. So like my mother and my sister are very cerebral people with a lot of creativity but you know who can write like a great paper. That's not me. I find that amazing when people can be both like really really intelligent and good expressing themselves. And then there are women in my life who are really who had a great deal of emotional intelligence. And my mother and my sister due to.

My godmother and my aunt are two people who influenced me because of their energy. They were always just quiet and calm and good listeners and something I strive towards because it's definitely a bit of a weakness. But yeah my my my friend and my godmother can see. Just really unique people quit a very. They both have a very specific sense of style and are just very. Kind and calm and. Good listeners. And my grandmother. On my father's side is. She's 92 and. She's still lives alone and cooks every day and she was a seamstress for a long time and as a child I just always remember seeing her hands and and how beautiful they were even though they sort of failed her at times. And and just watching her cook and just always going always going always going and um and my grandmother on my mother's side and to bake with me. We had our little village in Paris. It was a cheese shop and you put on your we got our fish and that's about where we would get she would get. Her drink every night and I would get an orange juice and. Yeah. Just. Those people who knew their village.

Passionistas: What about professional mentors who had mentors along the way?

Clémence: There were a couple of women particularly in Los Angeles who first of all the food community in L.A. is really just outrageously kind. Especially with women. So the women who took their time to sit with me or to nurture ideas or you know when when we couldn't find a sitter and you had to go in the kitchen overnight we'd bring over a bean bag so the kids could sleep there. I mean. Awesome. So Christine Moore is one of them. Ebvan Kleinmen. Other mentors in my life and just been people who have been in this circle and this wonderful community. Nan Kohler from Gtist and Toll is this amazing woman who mills flour and just knows who she is and knows the meaning of what she's doing and is unapologetic and so inspiring. There are so many great people here.

Passionistas: What's your secret to a rewarding lif?

Clémence: My secret to a rewarding life is just to live a really really simple life. And fill it with great people and great food. I keep it really simple. You don't need new furniture. It be nice but in the end like just keep life really simple and fill it with beautiful people and beautiful things. That you can eat like chocolate.

Passionistas: Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Clémence: My mantra up until I was about 20 and going through some really difficult periods was "shit happens move on." And then when I had kids it was. It just felt really defeatist and shallow to say it. I don't know that there's any mantras that I live by now other than just be kind. And do your best. And. In business I do have one. And it is under promise and over deliver. Because I used to. Over promise and then I'd end up under delivering and I would just flatten me for days or weeks. But yeah Under promise over deliver.

Passionistas: What's your definition of success?

Clémence: What my definition of success is. To create a business where our employees our able to earn a great living wage. So that for me is success. When your business is sustainable which means that the food you're buying is sustainable and the people who are growing it are earning a sustainable living to be self-sufficient essentially to create an environment where people feel inspired. People want to come to work. And the product that you sell you feel really proud of and you can stand behind and that's hard. And we don't always. Achieve that. You know you just you have goals and you share ideas and you work with other business people and figure out what they're doing and you do your best. It's hard. In California it's really hard.

Passionistas: What's your proudest career achievement?

Clémence: I think maybe my proudest career achievement has nothing to do with my career. And just. Like having been able to raise. Three kids. And do what I love also opening this new location is pretty awesome. Because we have an amazing team. But the two things are like making chocolate from scratch. And making great sourdough bread. So I like I always you know when I sit down and have a few minutes at night to think about like growing my craft I always go back to that like I don't have time to gro my craft or to really you know do R&D more and because running the business takes up so much time. And I know these kids have to keep alive and fed.

So every now and then I try to really hone in on something and they become really a little obsessed. So maybe in the last seven or eight years being able to really hone in on breadmaking and then working with Ruth our chocolate maker on our bean to bar classes and. Repeating the same thing that we've done with bread which is like find the greatest wheat that's grown the most sustainably and milled in a beautiful way and making great bread from it. In the same way that we're sort of reaching out to the chocolate growers and community of chocolate makers here and buying a couple of pieces of equipment to make really great chocolate. Literally from scratch.

Passionistas: What advice would you give to your woman who wants to get into the culinary arts?

Clémence: I teach this class called the business of food which is essentially a class to weed out whether you want to work in food or not because you really should only work in food if you can't not do it. This is a really physically, emotionally, financially demanding industry. That has at times been very unkind to women. And in many ways continues to be. And so I would say for a woman who is looking to work in food is work for somebody who's kind. And tough.

And it's going to hurt. And I just keep reminding students because we're a recreational school but we work with schools like L.A. Trade Tech on mentorship or doing special field trips and lectures. But it's just to remind yourself that it's about the work. So if somebody is commenting on your scone it's not about you. It's about the scone. And to just like manage your emotions while developing a craft that's coming from your soul which is really challenging. Because as women in food we're here because we nurture and we create and it's coming from not just our hands but you know our heart and our soul so it can be sometimes difficult to separate the two but.

Passionistas: If you could be eating anything in the world anywhere right now what would you want and why?

Clémence: My grandmother had this dessert at her restaurant called [french word] and she just needed to make desserts that she could liked make ahead and pop out right. So there was caramelized puff pastry. I believe it was vanilla ice cream and she would warm up honey with toasted almonds. Put a little bit of black current jam at the bottom of the plate. And then pour the honey and almonds over the puff pastry with the ice cream. If I can eat that in the village. On a hot day I probably feel really good. I would feel just as good though taking a piece of sourdough bread. And slathering it with our chocolate and some sea salt. That would also feel great. So sugar and warmth. So sugar and sunshine.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview Clémence Gossett. Visit the GormandiseSchool.com to learn more about the schedule for classes, the shop and to find some incredible recipes. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.

Clemence Gossett is the founder and co-owner of The Gourmandise School of Sweets and Savories in Santa Monica, California. Along with her partner, Sabrina Ironside, Clemence has built a school with a vision to expand the consumer’s education and experience of how to create amazing meals and treats out of locally sourced, sustainable ingredients, using the very finest techniques.

Read more about Clémence and the Goumandise.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. If you enjoy listening to the show please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going and you'll get rewards like buttons, access to premium content and invites to Passionistas Project events. Today we're talking with Clémence Gossett, co-founder of the Gourmandise School of Sweets and Savoryies in Santa Monica, California. Clémence and her partner, Sabrina Ironside, have built a cooking school that teaches students how to create amazing meals and treats out of locally sourced, sustainable ingredients, using the very finest techniques.

So, please welcome to the show Clémence Gossett.

Clémence: Thank you.

Passionistas: We're so excited to have you here.

Clémence: Thanks. This is fun.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about, Clémence?

Clémence: I think I'm most passionate about getting people to think. Just reminding people not to take anything at face value. Whether it's related to food or policy or whatever. Just having to think beyond like, "Oh I can just pick this up because it was designed for me." That sort of thing, if it relates to food.

Passionistas: How did you design this school to take advantage of that concept?

Clémence: The new iteration of the school, the new space we are in, was designed by Sabrina my business partner and myself in terms of the physical layout of the space. But the school came about through a series of very sort of serendipitous occasions. There was no day where I just sat down and was like, "You know, I think of cooking school." Because that doesn't make any sense. So it sort of evolved over a decade. But the physical layout of the space was designed by Sabrina and I with the input of all of our chef instructors.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your background. Were you born in Paris?

Clémence: I was born in Paris. I was born in Neuilly, which is like a little neighborhood in Paris. But I grew up in Paris spent. First seven years of my life there. And then we moved to the east coast of the U.S. And we finally settled right outside Washington, D.C. in Northern Virginia. I lived there until I was 18 and graduated from high school and left to go to college. And then finished college and that day it snowed on May 11th which was my graduation day. And it was like never again. So moved to LA, and I've been here 20 years.

Passionistas: Did growing up in Paris influence your culinary tastes?

Clémence: Most of my culinary influences come from after we left Paris. So my father's side of the family is from the south eastern part of France and right around the time when we moved to the US his parents decided to open up in retirement, n nobache — so like a little hotel and had a bar and a restaurant there. And so we would go during the summers and the winters to help them run the space during the busy season which meant like scooping a lot of ice cream — which was my favorite part doing a lot of dishes and just being around. And my grandmother ran the kitchen for the first year.

And my father always cooked. He didn't really necessarily work as a professional chef but we canned at home. He would string up his sheep in the backyard and roast it on a spit. You know there was a lot of like, :We just do this in our house." And I thought it was really weird and I was super embarrassed by it. But in the end just having no fear around food it was really sort of just describes my culinary background and knowing where everything came from. So in the little restaurant we would go every day go to the markets pick up the produce from the producers whether it was the mushroom guy or the woman who made goat cheese on her farm. So there was a connection. With everything that we ate that we really knew everybody who grew everything which I think was really special. I look back on it as being really special and the time I was to drive out there again. But. Very grateful.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about your steps to opening this school. How did it come about?

Clémence: I went to school to study film. I wanted to be a documentary filmmaker. And then just ended up settling for a good sturdy job with benefits. So I worked while I was in college for Miramax and then I worked at Disney out here. And then Fox when I was working at Fox on Fridays I would sell cookies from my cubicle so I would take orders all week. And I had a great boss who probably overlooked more things. Very kindly some things. And then it kind of snowballed from there. A friend of mine who at the time just had a candy company and now has a couple of restaurants said, "you know can you bring those cookies you make two to my birthday party?" And I did. And a woman came up to me at the birthday party and was like, "oh you know what did these cookies?" And I said, "oh you know I sell them at my cubicle, you know at Fox and I rent a kitchen on the weekends to sell to a couple of coffee shops." And she thought it was a great story and she was like, "Oh you know produce a show called Good Food." And so a few weeks later we were on Good Food, which was probably 15 years ago.

And after that aired it was one of those things where I had just had a baby. The show aired and so I quit. And I rented the kitchen more full time and started selling online and to some coffee shops. And then I got really tired after four years of not sleeping. And so I started teaching classes. And I got a call from a cooking school to run the pastry part of their curriculum and sort of observe how they ran their business and thought feel like there's a different way of teaching. And so I went to surface which is this great culinary resource in L.A. at the time it was in Culver City and I asked them. Would you rent space from your test kitchen? And they really know and. So I said what about $75 an hour and they were like Oh yeah that sounds like a good plan.

So we taught classes out of there and out of this other kitchen in Venice. And then couldn't teach at night because those spaces weren't available and just really thought. There was there needs to be a physical space and a home for this. And at that time I had a business partner and we came together and opened up in this kittle concept on the third floor of a mall by the ocean. And then my new business partner Sabrina came into the picture about three years ago and really helped us grow this into what it is today. This face is much bigger. It's definitely less like we can do in this little 900 square foot room you know including the dish room and the pantry. And this is definitely legit. It has you know compartmentalize faces and prep kitchen. And we have an office.

Passionistas: What makes this school different than other cooking schools?

Clémence: So I think every cooking school has their defining qualities. For us the most important thing is for people to make these things at home and to teach without judgment and with a lot of kindness and really great skill. So you know we have three hour classes, our classes are a minimum of three hours. They're all hands on. And you're never sort of sharing the station with more than one person. And everybody here makes everything on the menu. So instead of sort of saying oh this group's get a make salad and this group will make dessert. You know we have a smaller menu four to six dishes and a three hour period where everybody makes every, every meal. So then we sit down at the end and have a meal and answer questions.

Passionistas: What kinds of classes do you teach?

Clémence: We have about 12 chefs on staff now and everybody teaches their own specialty which is super important because I think cultural connections and context are a really big part of food stories not just about like oh cut cut the onion this way but you know in our culture we use onions in this fashion. So every instructor here comes with cultural context. So you know if you're going to teach a Thai class you need to have a connection to Thai cuisine somehow. So the kinds of classes we teach are a mix of what the chefs are bringing to us. Or classes that we've developed that are really technique based. So we have knife skills, beef technique, chicken technique, the sauce class, how to cook an egg. There was a three hour class just on eggs which is really fascinating. And then we have cuisine classes that are taught by the instructors because it's the cuisine they grew up with. So we have a Scandinavian breads and pastries. We have Thai classics we have cuisine from Laos. We have a great chef who's got an awesome story. About his background as a refugee from Laos and has started bringing that cuisine to the forefront. We have Italian and we have all sorts of classes. It's really inspiring to watch people get to express themselves and share through cooking and tell their stories.

Passionistas: It seems like you use a lot of locally sourced ingredients. Why is that important to you?

Clémence: We primarily use the Santa Monica farmer's market for all our produce. Some of our proteins and a lot of our grains. So the reason we picked this location to begin with seven years ago is that it's a stone's throw and a walking distance to the Wednesday and Saturday Santa Monica markets. I have always had a very close relationship with a lot of the farmers. We visit the farms often and we send our kids up there they send their kids to us. There's a great symbiotic relationship between the needs of chefs and cooking schools and restaurants and what the growers grow at having that connection is really helped to buoy a lot of these industries and a lot of these new agricultural products such as grains. So we have this little mill and we test out grains the different farmers are growing and we'll hit one that we love like a variety of corn that makes an awesome cookie or a hard red wheat that makes a fantastic bread and then we can go back and say next season can you plant this amount more. Because we think we can sell it.

Passionistas: So why do you think it's important to inspire people to think about what they're cooking?

Clémence: It's so important for people to learn how to cook. Number one because it's a skill everyone should have. It saves money. It creates connections. It can help decompress you if you sort of learn to not be afraid of the process. But knowing where your ingredients come from and being an active part of your economy is so important. So it's deeper than just like oh shop at a farmers market. It's about you know what do you want your food system to look like?

In this country not only do you have a voice and you're able to vote without too many boundaries. But this is the one country in the world where your dollar and the way that you spend it speaks volumes. So I can think of another place where it's more important to make. Everyday purchasing decisions to mirror what you want your home to look like and that can be in your community. It can mean your state. It can be. The federal government. It doesn't matter like we are all responsible for. How we want our country to be run. And when you make purchasing decisions that is a vote for a particular economy it is a vote for a food system. So we talk a lot about policy and not politics here. We talk a lot about because we have some lecture classes that have to do with trade routes geography history food where are you food comes from. Meet the farmer that sort of thing. But what we really want to inspire people to think beyond like oh this is just organic in a plastic package at the grocery store what does that mean. You know if it was its fits triple washed lettuce it's being washed with chemicals whether it's organic or not you probably don't want in your lettuce. It's being packed in a factory that may not have very responsible or ethical practices regarding their employees. So. It's about thinking one step beyond not just taking things at face value that presented to you but to go one step further.

Passionistas: What would you say to someone who finds cooking daunting and overwhelming? How do you help those people?

Clémence: So if somebody comes here and I'm in a class it's clear to see sort of who's coming in with a lot of nervous energy or is unsure or comes in and says I have no idea what I'm doing. Like it's OK. So we were all born that way. Not knowing what we're doing and things don't have to be perfect. So the first step is just to make a dish that has less than six ingredients where you can taste each ingredient and learn how to cook each ingredient work with them. So I had a cut and I knew. How to work with garlic. How to cook grains how to cook pasta how to cook meats and how to use herbs seasonings and acids to make a dish. Balanced and delicious. It's really simple when you break it down and you know we like to introduce sort of new techniques and classes. But in the end it's about keeping things really simple.

Passionistas: Tell us a little bit about the store that you have inside the school?

Clémence: We have a store in the front of the school and we're very careful because we really want our classes to drive what we sell. So one is I don't believe in single use gadgets in the kitchen. The only single use item we have is a cherry picker and we use it for three weeks out of the year. Every single day to cherries are out of season but yeah we want everything in your kitchen to be meaningful. Right so everything in your life should have meaning and it means not just like oh it's beautiful but is it functional. Do I need it? Is it beautiful? And was it crafted well. and with kindness?

In our store we have items that we've curated very carefully based on what we use in class. So we don't want you to have any tools that are superfluous in the kitchen. We just like a really good basic kitchen so you can focus on the ingredients and the technique rather than oh I need an egg separator. It's your hand. You can separate eggs with your hand.

Passionistas: We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Clémence Gossett. To learn more about the class schedule to shop and to find some incredible recipes. Visit the GormandiseSchool.com. Now here's more of our interview with Clémence.

Passionistas: You're a mother of three and a successful business owner. So what's your daily routine?

Clémence: So my daily routine. Because my youngest child is 7 involves waking up around five thirty in the morning. And what do we do when we wake up? So my son likes to make eggs in the morning so we get up and we make eggs and we get ready for school. We pack our lunch which is usually leftovers from the night before. Then we go to school and then so I drop him off at school and then I come to work if I have a class that I'm teaching prepping just teaching because otherwise it's meetings just either farmers market so I don't schedule anything on Wednesdays. Wednesday is Farmer's Market Day which is church for me so we're at the market just meeting with farmers with our friends with other shops getting ideas collaborating but all the other days are just either spent teaching classes or holding meetings because it's is kind of a big operation. We have 20 employees and 12 chefs to work with and a calendar. That I spend a lot of time trying to manage and then I always leave here by 5:00 because I got to pick up my little one and when we go home and we make dinner we have a couple of neighbors who have other kids and we try at least twice a week to do communal dinners together and then he's in bed by 7 thirty so that by 8:00 o'clock going back on the computer. Trying to get stuff done. They to bed at 9 o'clock. It's Groundhog Day all over again.

Passionistas: What do you do with all the days you feel unmotivated and don't want to do that?

Clémence: Oh gosh I wish I had a day where I could have the luxury of feeling unmotivated and not wanting to do that. I think when you have kids and you just don't have a choice you just have to be really nice to feel like that. I don't know. I mean there are definitely. We all have our good days and bad days. This is what I've learned about being a business owner when everything is a priority. Nothing is a priority. So you know you can make a list you can start things you can highlight things that in the end you just kind of do the best you can everyday and fires and and try to take two steps forward without taking too many steps back. It's like the constant email like I try to do e-mails at 1:00 in the morning so that nobody's emailing me back. So you just feel like your inbox is shrinking but then people like why were you emailing me at 1:00 in the morning? Can't win.

Passionistas: Is there one lesson you've learned so far in your journey that sticks with you?

Clémence: If there's one lesson that I've learned along this journey is I find serendipity to be really magical. I think people are really awesome. I don't know if this is a lesson but. I'm just so grateful to be in a community with people who believe in what they do and live it with their entire lives and their talent. My world is really small my world is comprised of like bakers and farmers. And activists. And business people that really help to manage these personalities but I'm so grateful to be around people who put their ideals. And their craft first. The lesson is be present be grateful. Surround yourself with really good people who do good work for good reasons and keep your life simple. So the reason that I'm able to do this is because I lead a really really simple life. So I have a rent controlled apartment. In Santa Monica that I can never leave. For one I bought a car cash. I just live like with just what I need. So I don't have the stress and the pull of constantly trying to manage things that I can't support so I have my kids. I have my friends and my loves. And work. And. That's it. I keep it simple. My baseline for life is pretty low. So every day that something happens extra is like euphoric.

Passionistas: What's been the biggest challenge that you've faced and how do you overcome it?

Clémence: So I think my biggest challenge is that I'm not good at a lot of things so I'm not really good at math and I'm not great at structure even though I need it. I'm super grateful that I have a great business partner and a general manager here. But see where's structure is needed here at the school. But yeah my my biggest challenge is. Being in my head a lot.

Passionistas: What's the most rewarding part of your career?

Clémence: The most rewarding part of my career is connection. The thing I had to get back to is sort of this life that I lived with my family in France where everything was really basic and simple. We got our ingredients. We made food out of them. We wash the linens we made the beds. That is how we earned our money right. It's just like being able to see the tangible results of work and that's in part why I started this business because I was working at Fox and my son would be you know I would pick him up from the daycare which was on the lot. And I would he would sit with me at lunchtime that it would take him back and he was always like Oh I have to go back so you can play on the computer. There was no connection for him between work and what I brought home to pay the bills. And that's something that didn't love. And really being able to show and put output to my kids so they can see like oh we work hard. Mama needs to make 20 pies so that we can sign up for basketball. And you don't want to give kids any guilt trip but you do want them to see that it takes some output to get input and see the value in it.

Passionistas: On your journey so far hasn't been one moment that you felt like was the most courageous that sort of was a pivotal moment?

Clémence: I don't think courage has anything to do with it. I take risks but I'm not so afraid of them I say. I think I saw my parents were both entrepreneurs take a lot of risks and so I think that's actually a terrible trait that I have where it's like everything is going to work out. This is a great idea. Let's just do it. So that's not courage it's just sometimes stupidity. I gave birth to three people I think for me. Those were the days that are the most incredible. Those are. My maybe three days.

Passionistas: What lessons did your mother or other influential women in your life teach you about women's roles in society?

Clémence: When I think about the women in my life. Well first of all my mother who is an honest Warner and just really there are people in my life who are very cerebral and intelligent. So like my mother and my sister are very cerebral people with a lot of creativity but you know who can write like a great paper. That's not me. I find that amazing when people can be both like really really intelligent and good expressing themselves. And then there are women in my life who are really who had a great deal of emotional intelligence. And my mother and my sister due to.

My godmother and my aunt are two people who influenced me because of their energy. They were always just quiet and calm and good listeners and something I strive towards because it's definitely a bit of a weakness. But yeah my my my friend and my godmother can see. Just really unique people quit a very. They both have a very specific sense of style and are just very. Kind and calm and. Good listeners. And my grandmother. On my father's side is. She's 92 and. She's still lives alone and cooks every day and she was a seamstress for a long time and as a child I just always remember seeing her hands and and how beautiful they were even though they sort of failed her at times. And and just watching her cook and just always going always going always going and um and my grandmother on my mother's side and to bake with me. We had our little village in Paris. It was a cheese shop and you put on your we got our fish and that's about where we would get she would get. Her drink every night and I would get an orange juice and. Yeah. Just. Those people who knew their village.

Passionistas: What about professional mentors who had mentors along the way?

Clémence: There were a couple of women particularly in Los Angeles who first of all the food community in L.A. is really just outrageously kind. Especially with women. So the women who took their time to sit with me or to nurture ideas or you know when when we couldn't find a sitter and you had to go in the kitchen overnight we'd bring over a bean bag so the kids could sleep there. I mean. Awesome. So Christine Moore is one of them. Ebvan Kleinmen. Other mentors in my life and just been people who have been in this circle and this wonderful community. Nan Kohler from Gtist and Toll is this amazing woman who mills flour and just knows who she is and knows the meaning of what she's doing and is unapologetic and so inspiring. There are so many great people here.

Passionistas: What's your secret to a rewarding lif?

Clémence: My secret to a rewarding life is just to live a really really simple life. And fill it with great people and great food. I keep it really simple. You don't need new furniture. It be nice but in the end like just keep life really simple and fill it with beautiful people and beautiful things. That you can eat like chocolate.

Passionistas: Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Clémence: My mantra up until I was about 20 and going through some really difficult periods was "shit happens move on." And then when I had kids it was. It just felt really defeatist and shallow to say it. I don't know that there's any mantras that I live by now other than just be kind. And do your best. And. In business I do have one. And it is under promise and over deliver. Because I used to. Over promise and then I'd end up under delivering and I would just flatten me for days or weeks. But yeah Under promise over deliver.

Passionistas: What's your definition of success?

Clémence: What my definition of success is. To create a business where our employees our able to earn a great living wage. So that for me is success. When your business is sustainable which means that the food you're buying is sustainable and the people who are growing it are earning a sustainable living to be self-sufficient essentially to create an environment where people feel inspired. People want to come to work. And the product that you sell you feel really proud of and you can stand behind and that's hard. And we don't always. Achieve that. You know you just you have goals and you share ideas and you work with other business people and figure out what they're doing and you do your best. It's hard. In California it's really hard.

Passionistas: What's your proudest career achievement?

Clémence: I think maybe my proudest career achievement has nothing to do with my career. And just. Like having been able to raise. Three kids. And do what I love also opening this new location is pretty awesome. Because we have an amazing team. But the two things are like making chocolate from scratch. And making great sourdough bread. So I like I always you know when I sit down and have a few minutes at night to think about like growing my craft I always go back to that like I don't have time to gro my craft or to really you know do R&D more and because running the business takes up so much time. And I know these kids have to keep alive and fed.

So every now and then I try to really hone in on something and they become really a little obsessed. So maybe in the last seven or eight years being able to really hone in on breadmaking and then working with Ruth our chocolate maker on our bean to bar classes and. Repeating the same thing that we've done with bread which is like find the greatest wheat that's grown the most sustainably and milled in a beautiful way and making great bread from it. In the same way that we're sort of reaching out to the chocolate growers and community of chocolate makers here and buying a couple of pieces of equipment to make really great chocolate. Literally from scratch.

Passionistas: What advice would you give to your woman who wants to get into the culinary arts?

Clémence: I teach this class called the business of food which is essentially a class to weed out whether you want to work in food or not because you really should only work in food if you can't not do it. This is a really physically, emotionally, financially demanding industry. That has at times been very unkind to women. And in many ways continues to be. And so I would say for a woman who is looking to work in food is work for somebody who's kind. And tough.

And it's going to hurt. And I just keep reminding students because we're a recreational school but we work with schools like L.A. Trade Tech on mentorship or doing special field trips and lectures. But it's just to remind yourself that it's about the work. So if somebody is commenting on your scone it's not about you. It's about the scone. And to just like manage your emotions while developing a craft that's coming from your soul which is really challenging. Because as women in food we're here because we nurture and we create and it's coming from not just our hands but you know our heart and our soul so it can be sometimes difficult to separate the two but.

Passionistas: If you could be eating anything in the world anywhere right now what would you want and why?

Clémence: My grandmother had this dessert at her restaurant called [french word] and she just needed to make desserts that she could liked make ahead and pop out right. So there was caramelized puff pastry. I believe it was vanilla ice cream and she would warm up honey with toasted almonds. Put a little bit of black current jam at the bottom of the plate. And then pour the honey and almonds over the puff pastry with the ice cream. If I can eat that in the village. On a hot day I probably feel really good. I would feel just as good though taking a piece of sourdough bread. And slathering it with our chocolate and some sea salt. That would also feel great. So sugar and warmth. So sugar and sunshine.

Passionistas: Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview Clémence Gossett. Visit the GormandiseSchool.com to learn more about the schedule for classes, the shop and to find some incredible recipes. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming, inspiring guests.

Erica Wright is the founder of U FIRST, INC., a charitable organization dedicated to serving the homeless with the basic necessities in efforts to restore their dignity and help them to lead a healthy and whole life.

For more about Erica and U First.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking to Erica Wright founder of the nonprofit organization U First Inc., a charitable organization dedicated to serving the homeless with the basic necessities in an effort to restore their dignity to lead a healthy and whole life.

So please welcome to the show Erica Wright.

Erica Wright: [00:00:21] Hi. Thank you guys so much for having me. I am just excited to be here, excited to talk about what we're doing with U First and our journey of homeless love.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:00:29] What are you most passionate about?

Erica Wright: [00:00:32] Right now, I'm definitely passionate about helping the homeless community bringing dignity back to their lives. I've experienced being homeless myself and I know what it feels like to meet someone. Sometimes your ego will allow you not to want to reach out to people. And so I just had a great group of people around me supporting me who pour it back into me even in the time of need. And s o the spirit has never left me. And even at a young age I've always felt like we could always do more because of the things that we have and so it's just been a passion of mine and to just give back to those in need.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:01:04] How does that translate into what you do for a living?

Erica Wright: [00:01:07] We do so many things that you U First. The passion is just not for our homeless community but as for those who are in need. So, it could be our children, who are in need with school supplies. Food. But my passion of helping the homeless community by keeping them clean is to put together these love acts we call them and they're just simple necessities of life like a washcloth, toothbrush, toothpaste, the things that we take for granted. And so it packaging these items and giving those to the people in need whether they're in shelters or under the bridge. I have a phrase of I believe everyone has a seat at the table. So Why not be able to get up in the morning and feel that love and sense of belonging, just from a small kit like a love bag. And that's truly my passion to do that. Put a smile on someone's face.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:01:52] How did that journey start? What was the seed of the idea to start doing this and how did it develop?

Erica Wright: [00:01:56] About 10 years ago, I saw this lady under the bridge, literally using a bottle of water to wash her hair. And It was cool that morning and I could see the steam coming from her head and it never left my spirit. I went through a bad breakup and I knew that I had a purpose and a passion and I needed to birth something. And so, August the 7th, 2014, I woke up from a dream and God had given me a vision. And I was like Paul, I just wrote out all of the things that were going to come forth with helping people and the name U First came about. And so, I didn't know what it was going to look like I didn't have any money and didn't have any credit and I had a blueprint. So, I heard this whisper, truly from God to use social media. And so what I would do, I spoke at Sunday school about my passion and my dream and my vision and two ladies from Sunday school started bringing hygiene items for the love bags. So I was able to put the kits together and that's how it started. So once people started getting engaged, with it I post it on social media and I would say, "Hey thank you Miss Jackson for donating two tubes of the toothpaste." And It just became contagious people from all over the place, I mean different states would just send items. And it's just been it's been amazing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:03:11] Tell us where it started, location wise, and how you've expanded it.

Erica Wright: [00:03:16] U First was birthed in Atlanta, Georgia. That's my hometown — born and raised. I have, this year, have been so about 19 different states. I had an opportunity to come to L.A. about three years ago and when I saw Skid Row, I just stood there and I cried. I could not believe that people were living in such deplorable circumstances. Not just people of my age, There were children men and women. It is just heartbreaking to see that. So a part of my journey this year, I wanted to really see what the states for doing, The little cities, different pockets, and what they were doing in their community and that I could bring back to the city of Atlanta and preferrably other places as we continue the journey. So right now our home base is in Atlanta. We work out of a storage unit there and sometimes we may have three storage units depending on the resources that we are able to obtain and put those items together. So We do not only hygiene kits, we do socks, blankets. We have different corporate sponsors, who make sure that we have things that we need to put into our kits. So hopefully next year we will branch out a little bit more in the L.A. area. Our goal is secure RV so that we can travel from different states and bless people at where they are.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:04:25] Talk about the accomplishments that you were able to make in 2017 and your goals for 2018 and if you've met them.

Erica Wright: [00:04:33] So last year we did over 220,000 blankets that were donated from Delta Airlines. So we touch lives in the shelters and people who live under the bridges. Also this year, God gave me a awesome number of a hundred thousand and I was like, "What Am I going to do with that?" And so the goal this year was to do 100,000 hygiene kits. And so to-date, we've done over 85,000 kits. Next year, of course, we have to go. So you know when I take it to the team and I say, "What do we think about 150,000?" I'm sure they're going to say, "Erica go sit down." But we're definitely looking to change more lives.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:05:11] What do you need to reach your goal?

Erica Wright: [00:05:22] We definitely need the resources. We depleted our inventory basically. We drove from Atlanta to New York in October. We did 18,000 kits. That was the largest number, the second drive we did. The first drive we drove from Atlanta to California and we did 11,000 kits. So right now storage is a little strained. We're asking the community to donate those items that we have on our wish list through our website which is ProjectUFirst.org. Again people from different places send items through to our P.O. Box. And so every second Saturday of the month, we come together and put the kids together. So always looking for volunteers, always looking for people who would like to maybe just write encouraging letters to the homeless and we'll put them in the kit as well. And so we have had people from Indiana just send those letters. But We're just always looking for people to get involved and to help give back. And it's U First that's what we do put people first.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:06:15] Tell us about the Love Lives Here event that you held this fall.

Erica Wright: [00:06:18] The Love Lives Here, it came to me of course in one of my awesome dreams about 3:30 in the morning when I wake up and I'm like oh my God, so what does this look like? So part of the Love Lives Here tour is to meet people where they are. One of the things that I've learned with doing this work is that people have a perception of what they think being homeless means and it is a broad, broad statement when you say homelessness. And so for me, I wanted to, again, meet people where they are and show them love where they live. And so that's why we call it the Love Lives Here tour. So again we drove from Atlanta, Georgia to New York City again dispersing over 18,000 hygiene kits. And we stopped in every state. We stepped in every state along the way. We actually had a chance to sit down with CEOs of different shelters to talk about how they got into opening up the shelter and what does it look like for their state — you know the population and so on and so forth. So the Love Lives Here tour, Once we were able to just start taking a journey from when we came from Atlanta to California, it opened up our eyes that this thing is really serious. Like We're experiencing so many of our LGBTQ youth, who run away, Who just don't know how to come out and present. And so these kids need safe places that they can go. But then there is the politics of the whole homelessness situation where, youth or a certain age that some states can't technically have a shelter for them. And so you run into all of these roadblocks when it comes to political this or that. And so I think it's important for us to really just sink into where people live. They are under the bridge and this is their circumstance right now, whether they know to do better, either through mental illness or they want to do better, I just think that we should have the resources to be able to help them where they are. That's why we call it Love Lives Here. We just love people where they were.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:08:12] Are you finding any politicians along the way that are being super supportive of your mission?

Erica Wright: [00:08:19] That is something that I'm still in search of. We do have support in Atlanta. Of course, being raised there I know a lot of people of course use the social media and people just see what we're actually doing in a community has spark some conversation from our city council and those who work close at City Hall. But at the end of the day it's one of these markets, there are a lot of people who are giving back in a city like Atlanta, so it can become saturated and you can kind of sometimes get looked over. I myself talk about doing this work and I am not a heterosexual male, who has a family, who's able to just have that seat automatically at the table and I have found it a little challenging you know presenting as a gay person to be able to kind of tap into other avenues when it just comes to just helping people. And so I would like to see a little bit more support, not just in the homeless communities of the shelters, but those people who are actually, the grassroots organizations who are out on the ground, who are out here every day making sure people are fed and have the simple necessities of life. So, of course, I would love to see more politicians get involved in this effort to help people get off the streets.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:09:31] Would you ever get into politics yourself?

Erica Wright: [00:09:33] It was funny I was just talking about that yesterday. I don't know but I do know when I started this I didn't know what it was going to look like. Now that I'm in it, I'm in it to win. I believe that we all have a fight in this to whatever your justice is whatever that is. And so I won't rule it out to say that I won't rule it out. But if there's something that I'm considering doing I would love to be able to do it from the standpoint from where the people are, from not the inside out but the outside it. And I think that that's what's missing right now in America. We have a lot of politicians that are working this way and not understanding what the people need and hearing the voices of the people. And I think that that was something I would consider. I was started that way.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:10:21] So you said you're in it to win it. So what would winning look like to you?

Erica Wright: [00:10:26] Winning to me would look like every homeless person that I've ever seen liked to come off the street that they would have a place to do that. And oftentimes, even just doing his work this year with the Love Lives Here tour going to different places, we were able to have conversations with different people. We're talking about doctors and lawyers. And we're talking about nurses. We're talking about students. And so there's no face to it. You know it's not about race. It's not about your gender. It's not just about your sexual orientation. It is just that, your misfortune or you know we were just talking about the fires here in L.A. These people now are homeless. The work that we're doing right now is to support people where they are. So in it to win it for me is not where somebody could tell me what I can and can't do. Well I've had people say you can never get grants just for health and hygiene items. Well, I don't believe that. And guess what we need them but we didn't just write off them. But to tell me that I can't do something when I see people who are living in situations that, a lot through no fault of their own, so what's happening is am I supposed to tell someone that you have a bite that I don't have Neosporin for you or if you need something, you're hungry and I don't have food for you. So I believe that just having someone to be able to give those people who are experiencing homelessness what they need, that's why I fight. So I want to win at helping them get exactly what they need, where they are. And I won't allow people to tell me it can't be done because in the last four years we've been able to do it and do it with no grant money so I'm definitely in it to win it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:12:06] What can your average person do to help the homeless and also what do we need the politicians to do? What changes need to happen?

Erica Wright: [00:12:14] On the home front of the politicians, it's a stroke of a pen is a stroke of a conversation, it's just striking up the conversation at the table with, again, the people who are out doing the grassroots work who are having the conversations, the tough conversations. And then seeing what the people need. For instance, when I first started I was given people on the street luggage and they would say, "Do you have a book bag?" And so you know you identified where they are and what the needs are. And so I think that's the beginning of that — having a seat at the table with the politicians to say, ,"Hey, we're doing the work. Why are you cutting this funding?" Also we have a lot of children who go to school who are homeless. We have to start there as well. If you have kids that are coming and they're not able to eat. They don't have proper school supplies. All of that trickles down back into the homeless community growing because of education, because of lack of jobs, Because of this. And All of that starts with the politicians at the table. And so what we look for in the community to help, I often tell people you don't have to give money, especially if you don't have it. But just that if I'm making a sandwich in the morning maybe I'll make two or you cut off a section of that and just have it on the seat. I mean if you encounter someone, just you know politely ask if they would like something to eat or you can do hygiene kits on the front of your seat, socks, nutritional bars. And that's another part about what we see in the homeless community because they don't get what they need, we see a lot of people who are suffering from diabetes, mental illness, and they're not getting the medication that they need. Just the simple things like maybe clean needles for diabetics. And so again all of that plays a part of someone being whole and healthy so that they can be productive citizens and to get back into society. And you can just start with a hygene kit. Because If you're not able to groom yourself, then the trickle down effect of your health can just be something that can even prolong your ability to get off of the streets and into society.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:14:16] You mentioned that you've had your own experiences being homeless but what have you learned about a lot of the people that are on the streets that either has surprised you or might surprise people listening?

Erica Wright: [00:14:30] I never thought in a million years that I would tell this story. I came from a great home. Two loving parents, sisters and brothers. I'm a barber by trade, so great career. And I just fell into life. And so even through my experience I think the hardest thing for me. Everything was a trickle down effect. I lost my health insurance. I have been diagnosed with bipolar and anxiety. And so I couldn't get my medicine. And so it was just a downward spiral from being here to just here. And so for me it took everything I had, every day, just get up in the morning. And I wanted to commit suicide. I wanted to die. And I got up one morning off the floor in the office where I stayed and I saw this lady sleeping in a cardboard box and it was raining. And so for me God me the vision that Erika you know different from the lady behind you. The difference is you just have a covering over your head. And so in having different conversations with different people knowing my own struggle with mental illness I would say probably ninety-five percent of people who are on the streets have some type of mental disability. I think for me just anyone with a normalcy about themselves and have to experience certain things at some point, battle depression or something like that. And so just having conversations with those people who are in need, you see through that. You see through that wall and see through that barrier because it was you, it was your story. It might not have been this. It might have been that. But at the end of the day you can kind of resonate with where they are and that's how you want people to see you as a person and not your experience of you're just not defined in your location or where you live. So it is very hard to see people who are not able to articulate what they need and where they are based on their mental status. And so this is again where we need the politicians to come in to have that tough conversation. So how do we get someone off the street who has mental illness? How do I identify and how do we not cross that red tape to what we can and cannot do? And I think at some point people have to make a decision because these people are experiencing this. They're walking around in our community and we have a blind eye to it. And I think that we have to do a better job of identifying it and also what can you do legally to get people off the street and get them the help that they need. And I think that's going to be probably one of the challenges that I can see facing you know for anyone a politician or any a grassroot organization because you just can't take someone's rights to take off them the street.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:17:19] You talked about not feeling motivated when you were battling depression and it seems like what was your lowest point. But now you seem like your boundless energy for this cause. What do you do on days when you don't feel motivated to do it?

Erica Wright: [00:17:33] You know to be honest there are a lot of days that I struggle. Depression is real you know. And a lot of people follow my social media and they're like, "Oh my God, Erica, you're always so bubbly so cheery." That's what gets me up in the morning to know that I'm making a difference in someone's life. And the people that have come in contact with U First — the volunteers, the donors, the well wishers — it's justbeen amazing. It's just been an amazing journey. I've met so many different people, who just, they have the same spark. So just to know that they're even putting the kits together and they may not even give it to someone but just the part that they know they have a place in this organization that they can help someone. It's just been amazing. So those are the stories that make me get up in the morning and once I get out of bed and I know that I'm about to go out and feed someone or give out socks or go to a school and speak. Just to inspired someone, that's definitely what drives me to keep moving. And the winning situation, what did it look like if we had shelters here when we looked like we had an opportunity to drive from California to Vegas. And I'm thinking about all of this land out here like we shouldn't have everyone just saturated in this dense populate dense area. You know so much out here we could just use it. And why not? I've seen it even in Oklahoma, they have a huge shelter where I say it, whatever your it is. If you have HIV, women with children, men with children, families. They had a place for everyone who's even you want to sleep there. You're just coming in for a shower. Whatever your group activities are, they had something for everyone. So when you see something like that in another state you think why can't this be across the board. Even with this whole thing was what's going on with the war, everybody's so divided, you're either a Democrat or you're republican. To me what happened to humanity? What happened to people? What happened to love? What happened to seeing my neighbor get up and be all that they can be? I mean, When did we stop just loving and being energized of people in itself? So Yeah, I get that.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:19:49] What's the biggest challenge? It sounds like the whole thing is a challenge. But what's your biggest challenge?

Erica Wright: [00:19:55] Of course, resources. Definitely money. Finances. Just this year with over 80,000 hygene kits, we did it probably with less than thirty thousand dollars less than $30,000. And basically all of the inventory that we got in was donated. So I'm often amazed at how we do things with the amount that we have. But I'm also energized because I can imagine what we could do with a hundred thousand dollars so resources would be number one thing that we would run into that hurdle. 

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:20:29] Have you ever thought of giving up?

Erica Wright: [00:20:30] Oh my gosh. Yes. There was one day I was going to throw in the towel. And of course by being a barber by trade I would do mobile haircuts. I have a guy who's in a wheelchair. So this particular morning I was like I'm just done, I'm done. So he wrote me a check and I left. And I had 20 dollars in my pocket. And so I saw this lady a homeless lady. She had all of her cans and bags in her shopping cart. And I said you know what I got some luggage in my trunk that somebody donated. I'm out, I'm going to give this out and I'm done. So I pulled over and I got out of the car, spoke to the lady and she was kind of talking a little bit out of her head. And she came over to the back of the car and she said, "I knew you were coming." And I said, "Excuse me." She said, "I knew you were coming." She said, "You know somebody stole my luggage last week." And I was like, thinking to myself, "No, I don't even know you." And so, I started to cry because when I opened the trunk, I had the luggage. And so it was as if God had sent an angel to to to say to me, "I have your back." And so right before I pulled off the Holy Spirit told me to plant a seed and give her the 20 dollars. And I was like no way I got to get gas, I got to take care of this, I gotta get something to eat. And so I turned around and gave her to twenty dollars. And she looked at it and she kind of started talking out of her head a little bit. And she turned around to me and looked me in my eyes and she said, "When you get your 501c3, doors and windows will open up beyond anything you can imagine." And I knew then that that was God's way of letting me know that I will always supply your needs and not to worry just keep doing what you're doing. And I cried, she cried. And I said, "God I never give up. I will never throw in the towel." So, that was one of those incredible moments in my life. Never forget it. Never Forget her. 

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:22:22] What's one lesson you've learned throughout the time doing this that really sticks with you?

Erica Wright: [00:22:27] The lesson that I've learned is to be open. Never be closed off. There will be people that will come and help. There will be people that will come and pray with you and pray on you. And I'm still learning. Again It didn't come with a blueprint. So I think my biggest challenge is, because I don't have the business blueprint to go with it, I'm often asking a lot of questions, going to different seminars, trying to figure out how do we sustain this is. It's not something that we're just doing for now. Definitely have a presence, not just in the city of Atlanta and Californian but we want to go global. And so along with that the challenge for me every day is just to dig into what I know and stretch my hands a little bit to what I don't know. And so far it's going pretty good. Can't complain.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:23:18] And what's been the most rewarding part so far?

Erica Wright: [00:23:20] Oh my God. To save people's faces, conversations, they will never leave my spirit. I have so many different testimonies, I can't even begin just one. I think the children definitely play a big impact on my heart. There is an innocence about a child and there's a different innocence about children who don't know about student loans, who don't know about foreclosure. They don't know that you know mom is having a bad day. They don't know that I am sleeping on one side of the shelter and my brother has to sleep on the other side because he's too old and we don't have enough family unit. So to see a child running your car to get a sandwich or a Bandaid or just whatever they need and to just play and hold right where they are and just don't even know that they don't have a place to stay, a room to go in. Those are the things that stay in my spirit. Those are the faces that I see in the morning. Those are the faces of sleep if I'm going to sleep. And I definitely want to keep doing what I'm doing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:24:26] Looking back on your journey so far, is there one moment that you can think, that was really courageous of me and it totally changed the path that I'm on?

Erica Wright: [00:24:38] I came to LA and I was supposed to go to Rancho Cucamonga. And I thought, "Okay, well I'll just ride the train." When I get to the train station, it was closed. So I was standing outside of Union Station at about 3:30 in the morning. I was like, oh my God. I'm in a place I don't know and I'm outhere, what is like, what do I do. And so I sat down on a bench and I saw all of the homeless people walking around, moving with their cars. Aand I'm saying, "It's 3:30 in morning. Like why not sleep?" And it hit me how this whole community of people are maneuvering and being, while we're asleep in our comfortable beds and it just hit me like this is a real. Although It's a hygiene kit, it opened up the door for so many different avenues for me to see people where they are. And so the next morning when I got myself situated I had to come back to being a station and I saw the people laying in a park. So a lot of times I hear people say well they're lazy they need to go get a job why is sleeping in a minute a day. Because they're up all night because of the abuse and being raped and molested. It's just so much that this community is embedded in and dwells in. And so for me to see that, and then to see them out open because they don't want anyone to mess with their belongings because that's all they have. And so that night, morning was something that would never leave my spirit and I know that it made it impact on my life to continue to do what I'm doing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:26:28] You've mentioned your mom a couple of times. Tell us about her and what lessons she taught you when you were young about what women could and couldn't do.

Erica Wright: [00:26:37] Oh wow. Well my mom was a stay at home mom. And I just thought she was Superwoman. She could do everything. She could cook. And she took us to basketball practice. And she was also a giver. My family, every Thanksgiving and Christmas, they would adopt a family from Family Children's Services. And we would go and drop off the Christmas items and I would go home and I would look up under my tree and I'm like, "This is not fair." Like how could I leave this lady and she has all these kids and I have so much. But my mom, her strength is, is incredible. She's 80 years old right now but I still see her do things that a 20-year-old can do. But she has truly made an impact in my life to giving and opening up. And she's always taught us to be us and be givers you know and just love people when they are. I love that about her.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:27:27] Have you had any mentors that have helped you grow U First into what it is now?

Erica Wright: [00:27:34] I'm going to be real honest. I think the people that I met on the journey, have all been a mentor and some some form or fashion. I've met people who had their own businesses to housewives to men who were just saying, "Hey, let me help you pick that up." And so it sparks that conversation to something else. "Oh, that's a great thing you're doing." "This happened to me." And I think those stories are the ones that make an impact in my life. I do love the stories of the Tyler Perry's people... I had the opportunity to meet Tyler Perry some years ago at the barbershop that I used to work in. He would come in and get a haircut. This is before he had any movies. And so he had a play he would bring these tickets and he would give them to us. And I remember going to the play and I was like, "It was okay." And then he stopped coming and I was like, "Oh my God, he used to come in the barbershop." So the stories that I hear about like Tiffany Haddish, who slept in her car. I get it because I believe in the law of attraction I believe in living your life with intention in your purpose and your vision. So I could hear in a little piece of her story in me when she talked about how she slept in a car outside of this mansion and said, "I'm going to live there." And so I have a couple of things in my phone that I'm praying that will happen for me. But it starts with that, just that dream.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:28:51] What's your secret to a rewarding life?

Erica Wright: [00:28:53] The secret is prayer, prayer. I am definitely, definitely, definitely in love with God. That is my secret. I know that I could not have done the things without God. And the experience of the vision that he gave me just to be in his presence. To be sitting here right now and talking about a passion of mine. Something that a lot of people don't take the chance to just step out on faith and do it. They're not willing to say, "I'm going to give up. I'm going to sacrifice to do this." So for me prayer and just knowing that God would do it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:29:34] Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Erica Wright: [00:29:37] It is what it is and I like what I like. And I don't like it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:29:44] What advice would you give to someone who really wants to help but just doesn't know where to start?

Erica Wright: [00:29:50] I would say do your homework, do your homework, Read. Just kind of have a visual what you would like to do and then try it just do it. I'm always open to people who say, "I can't do this. I can't come physically but I can financially contribute." Okay, well let's look at it differently. You don't just have to do monetary you can do a gift card for maybe McDonald's that we can give to some kids who can have after school lunch or something like that. So it's so many different things it's just really opening up the door first of all to let people know that they're welcome. A lot of times we hear other big groups, people can kind of get lost in that big corporation. So they go and volunteer but they don't get the fulfillment they need. So by us being a small group, people are kind of able to pick and choose the time. Well I don't want to do this. I Don't want to put the kits together but I just want to walk around and talk. And I just invite everybody to just come on out and how.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:30:46] And how can people specifically help U First? Where do they go? What Do you need from people right now?

Erica Wright: [00:30:53] We have a wish list on our website which is ProjectUFirst.org. Also we have a like page on Facebook. We have a group on Facebook called the Project U First. and we're on Twitter — ProjectUFirst, as well — and Instagram. Also on the wish list through our website, you can you know, if you want to send items to us, so if peple like to buy like a gift card, all of those links are on there .And we're definitely in need of, again, the items that we have printed on there. Just coming off this last trip has depleted our inventory, so we could use those items.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:31:29] What are you proudest of in your journey so far?

Erica Wright: [00:31:32] Connections. Connections. To see people connected. The people that I've met along the journey and now they're connected. We're a family. The U First team is truly a family and is from different make ups in life. We often use different websites to get people to come from different corporate sponsors like Delta or CNN. The employees will come and it will just take that one person to go back and say, "Oh my God, we did an amazing thing. We put fifteen hundred kits together last week and we took them to the shelters." And so once they come they interact with each other and then they exchange numbers. And also to see people use technology. Social media is free, well some are free, but if you use it in an effective way it can be your best friend or it can be dangerous on the opposite side. But I think social media and just being able to have a wide platform from people from different places. And then we're engaging as one. So I definitely love to see people come together.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:32:36] What's your definition of success?

Erica Wright: [00:32:38] I'm still learning that. Because sometimes I feel as if there's so much for us to do. And time waits for no one. And I believe that every day that we get up. And we're able to breathe we can do something different. So for me success is every day. It's every day that you're able to get up and make a difference in someone's life. Do something. What did you learn today? And even as an adult, I'll say, "I don't know if I should've done it." But I think definitely, every day success is a successful story.

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Erica Wright is the founder of U FIRST, INC., a charitable organization dedicated to serving the homeless with the basic necessities in efforts to restore their dignity and help them to lead a healthy and whole life.

For more about Erica and U First.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking to Erica Wright founder of the nonprofit organization U First Inc., a charitable organization dedicated to serving the homeless with the basic necessities in an effort to restore their dignity to lead a healthy and whole life.

So please welcome to the show Erica Wright.

Erica Wright: [00:00:21] Hi. Thank you guys so much for having me. I am just excited to be here, excited to talk about what we're doing with U First and our journey of homeless love.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:00:29] What are you most passionate about?

Erica Wright: [00:00:32] Right now, I'm definitely passionate about helping the homeless community bringing dignity back to their lives. I've experienced being homeless myself and I know what it feels like to meet someone. Sometimes your ego will allow you not to want to reach out to people. And so I just had a great group of people around me supporting me who pour it back into me even in the time of need. And s o the spirit has never left me. And even at a young age I've always felt like we could always do more because of the things that we have and so it's just been a passion of mine and to just give back to those in need.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:01:04] How does that translate into what you do for a living?

Erica Wright: [00:01:07] We do so many things that you U First. The passion is just not for our homeless community but as for those who are in need. So, it could be our children, who are in need with school supplies. Food. But my passion of helping the homeless community by keeping them clean is to put together these love acts we call them and they're just simple necessities of life like a washcloth, toothbrush, toothpaste, the things that we take for granted. And so it packaging these items and giving those to the people in need whether they're in shelters or under the bridge. I have a phrase of I believe everyone has a seat at the table. So Why not be able to get up in the morning and feel that love and sense of belonging, just from a small kit like a love bag. And that's truly my passion to do that. Put a smile on someone's face.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:01:52] How did that journey start? What was the seed of the idea to start doing this and how did it develop?

Erica Wright: [00:01:56] About 10 years ago, I saw this lady under the bridge, literally using a bottle of water to wash her hair. And It was cool that morning and I could see the steam coming from her head and it never left my spirit. I went through a bad breakup and I knew that I had a purpose and a passion and I needed to birth something. And so, August the 7th, 2014, I woke up from a dream and God had given me a vision. And I was like Paul, I just wrote out all of the things that were going to come forth with helping people and the name U First came about. And so, I didn't know what it was going to look like I didn't have any money and didn't have any credit and I had a blueprint. So, I heard this whisper, truly from God to use social media. And so what I would do, I spoke at Sunday school about my passion and my dream and my vision and two ladies from Sunday school started bringing hygiene items for the love bags. So I was able to put the kits together and that's how it started. So once people started getting engaged, with it I post it on social media and I would say, "Hey thank you Miss Jackson for donating two tubes of the toothpaste." And It just became contagious people from all over the place, I mean different states would just send items. And it's just been it's been amazing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:03:11] Tell us where it started, location wise, and how you've expanded it.

Erica Wright: [00:03:16] U First was birthed in Atlanta, Georgia. That's my hometown — born and raised. I have, this year, have been so about 19 different states. I had an opportunity to come to L.A. about three years ago and when I saw Skid Row, I just stood there and I cried. I could not believe that people were living in such deplorable circumstances. Not just people of my age, There were children men and women. It is just heartbreaking to see that. So a part of my journey this year, I wanted to really see what the states for doing, The little cities, different pockets, and what they were doing in their community and that I could bring back to the city of Atlanta and preferrably other places as we continue the journey. So right now our home base is in Atlanta. We work out of a storage unit there and sometimes we may have three storage units depending on the resources that we are able to obtain and put those items together. So We do not only hygiene kits, we do socks, blankets. We have different corporate sponsors, who make sure that we have things that we need to put into our kits. So hopefully next year we will branch out a little bit more in the L.A. area. Our goal is secure RV so that we can travel from different states and bless people at where they are.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:04:25] Talk about the accomplishments that you were able to make in 2017 and your goals for 2018 and if you've met them.

Erica Wright: [00:04:33] So last year we did over 220,000 blankets that were donated from Delta Airlines. So we touch lives in the shelters and people who live under the bridges. Also this year, God gave me a awesome number of a hundred thousand and I was like, "What Am I going to do with that?" And so the goal this year was to do 100,000 hygiene kits. And so to-date, we've done over 85,000 kits. Next year, of course, we have to go. So you know when I take it to the team and I say, "What do we think about 150,000?" I'm sure they're going to say, "Erica go sit down." But we're definitely looking to change more lives.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:05:11] What do you need to reach your goal?

Erica Wright: [00:05:22] We definitely need the resources. We depleted our inventory basically. We drove from Atlanta to New York in October. We did 18,000 kits. That was the largest number, the second drive we did. The first drive we drove from Atlanta to California and we did 11,000 kits. So right now storage is a little strained. We're asking the community to donate those items that we have on our wish list through our website which is ProjectUFirst.org. Again people from different places send items through to our P.O. Box. And so every second Saturday of the month, we come together and put the kids together. So always looking for volunteers, always looking for people who would like to maybe just write encouraging letters to the homeless and we'll put them in the kit as well. And so we have had people from Indiana just send those letters. But We're just always looking for people to get involved and to help give back. And it's U First that's what we do put people first.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:06:15] Tell us about the Love Lives Here event that you held this fall.

Erica Wright: [00:06:18] The Love Lives Here, it came to me of course in one of my awesome dreams about 3:30 in the morning when I wake up and I'm like oh my God, so what does this look like? So part of the Love Lives Here tour is to meet people where they are. One of the things that I've learned with doing this work is that people have a perception of what they think being homeless means and it is a broad, broad statement when you say homelessness. And so for me, I wanted to, again, meet people where they are and show them love where they live. And so that's why we call it the Love Lives Here tour. So again we drove from Atlanta, Georgia to New York City again dispersing over 18,000 hygiene kits. And we stopped in every state. We stepped in every state along the way. We actually had a chance to sit down with CEOs of different shelters to talk about how they got into opening up the shelter and what does it look like for their state — you know the population and so on and so forth. So the Love Lives Here tour, Once we were able to just start taking a journey from when we came from Atlanta to California, it opened up our eyes that this thing is really serious. Like We're experiencing so many of our LGBTQ youth, who run away, Who just don't know how to come out and present. And so these kids need safe places that they can go. But then there is the politics of the whole homelessness situation where, youth or a certain age that some states can't technically have a shelter for them. And so you run into all of these roadblocks when it comes to political this or that. And so I think it's important for us to really just sink into where people live. They are under the bridge and this is their circumstance right now, whether they know to do better, either through mental illness or they want to do better, I just think that we should have the resources to be able to help them where they are. That's why we call it Love Lives Here. We just love people where they were.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:08:12] Are you finding any politicians along the way that are being super supportive of your mission?

Erica Wright: [00:08:19] That is something that I'm still in search of. We do have support in Atlanta. Of course, being raised there I know a lot of people of course use the social media and people just see what we're actually doing in a community has spark some conversation from our city council and those who work close at City Hall. But at the end of the day it's one of these markets, there are a lot of people who are giving back in a city like Atlanta, so it can become saturated and you can kind of sometimes get looked over. I myself talk about doing this work and I am not a heterosexual male, who has a family, who's able to just have that seat automatically at the table and I have found it a little challenging you know presenting as a gay person to be able to kind of tap into other avenues when it just comes to just helping people. And so I would like to see a little bit more support, not just in the homeless communities of the shelters, but those people who are actually, the grassroots organizations who are out on the ground, who are out here every day making sure people are fed and have the simple necessities of life. So, of course, I would love to see more politicians get involved in this effort to help people get off the streets.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:09:31] Would you ever get into politics yourself?

Erica Wright: [00:09:33] It was funny I was just talking about that yesterday. I don't know but I do know when I started this I didn't know what it was going to look like. Now that I'm in it, I'm in it to win. I believe that we all have a fight in this to whatever your justice is whatever that is. And so I won't rule it out to say that I won't rule it out. But if there's something that I'm considering doing I would love to be able to do it from the standpoint from where the people are, from not the inside out but the outside it. And I think that that's what's missing right now in America. We have a lot of politicians that are working this way and not understanding what the people need and hearing the voices of the people. And I think that that was something I would consider. I was started that way.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:10:21] So you said you're in it to win it. So what would winning look like to you?

Erica Wright: [00:10:26] Winning to me would look like every homeless person that I've ever seen liked to come off the street that they would have a place to do that. And oftentimes, even just doing his work this year with the Love Lives Here tour going to different places, we were able to have conversations with different people. We're talking about doctors and lawyers. And we're talking about nurses. We're talking about students. And so there's no face to it. You know it's not about race. It's not about your gender. It's not just about your sexual orientation. It is just that, your misfortune or you know we were just talking about the fires here in L.A. These people now are homeless. The work that we're doing right now is to support people where they are. So in it to win it for me is not where somebody could tell me what I can and can't do. Well I've had people say you can never get grants just for health and hygiene items. Well, I don't believe that. And guess what we need them but we didn't just write off them. But to tell me that I can't do something when I see people who are living in situations that, a lot through no fault of their own, so what's happening is am I supposed to tell someone that you have a bite that I don't have Neosporin for you or if you need something, you're hungry and I don't have food for you. So I believe that just having someone to be able to give those people who are experiencing homelessness what they need, that's why I fight. So I want to win at helping them get exactly what they need, where they are. And I won't allow people to tell me it can't be done because in the last four years we've been able to do it and do it with no grant money so I'm definitely in it to win it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:12:06] What can your average person do to help the homeless and also what do we need the politicians to do? What changes need to happen?

Erica Wright: [00:12:14] On the home front of the politicians, it's a stroke of a pen is a stroke of a conversation, it's just striking up the conversation at the table with, again, the people who are out doing the grassroots work who are having the conversations, the tough conversations. And then seeing what the people need. For instance, when I first started I was given people on the street luggage and they would say, "Do you have a book bag?" And so you know you identified where they are and what the needs are. And so I think that's the beginning of that — having a seat at the table with the politicians to say, ,"Hey, we're doing the work. Why are you cutting this funding?" Also we have a lot of children who go to school who are homeless. We have to start there as well. If you have kids that are coming and they're not able to eat. They don't have proper school supplies. All of that trickles down back into the homeless community growing because of education, because of lack of jobs, Because of this. And All of that starts with the politicians at the table. And so what we look for in the community to help, I often tell people you don't have to give money, especially if you don't have it. But just that if I'm making a sandwich in the morning maybe I'll make two or you cut off a section of that and just have it on the seat. I mean if you encounter someone, just you know politely ask if they would like something to eat or you can do hygiene kits on the front of your seat, socks, nutritional bars. And that's another part about what we see in the homeless community because they don't get what they need, we see a lot of people who are suffering from diabetes, mental illness, and they're not getting the medication that they need. Just the simple things like maybe clean needles for diabetics. And so again all of that plays a part of someone being whole and healthy so that they can be productive citizens and to get back into society. And you can just start with a hygene kit. Because If you're not able to groom yourself, then the trickle down effect of your health can just be something that can even prolong your ability to get off of the streets and into society.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:14:16] You mentioned that you've had your own experiences being homeless but what have you learned about a lot of the people that are on the streets that either has surprised you or might surprise people listening?

Erica Wright: [00:14:30] I never thought in a million years that I would tell this story. I came from a great home. Two loving parents, sisters and brothers. I'm a barber by trade, so great career. And I just fell into life. And so even through my experience I think the hardest thing for me. Everything was a trickle down effect. I lost my health insurance. I have been diagnosed with bipolar and anxiety. And so I couldn't get my medicine. And so it was just a downward spiral from being here to just here. And so for me it took everything I had, every day, just get up in the morning. And I wanted to commit suicide. I wanted to die. And I got up one morning off the floor in the office where I stayed and I saw this lady sleeping in a cardboard box and it was raining. And so for me God me the vision that Erika you know different from the lady behind you. The difference is you just have a covering over your head. And so in having different conversations with different people knowing my own struggle with mental illness I would say probably ninety-five percent of people who are on the streets have some type of mental disability. I think for me just anyone with a normalcy about themselves and have to experience certain things at some point, battle depression or something like that. And so just having conversations with those people who are in need, you see through that. You see through that wall and see through that barrier because it was you, it was your story. It might not have been this. It might have been that. But at the end of the day you can kind of resonate with where they are and that's how you want people to see you as a person and not your experience of you're just not defined in your location or where you live. So it is very hard to see people who are not able to articulate what they need and where they are based on their mental status. And so this is again where we need the politicians to come in to have that tough conversation. So how do we get someone off the street who has mental illness? How do I identify and how do we not cross that red tape to what we can and cannot do? And I think at some point people have to make a decision because these people are experiencing this. They're walking around in our community and we have a blind eye to it. And I think that we have to do a better job of identifying it and also what can you do legally to get people off the street and get them the help that they need. And I think that's going to be probably one of the challenges that I can see facing you know for anyone a politician or any a grassroot organization because you just can't take someone's rights to take off them the street.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:17:19] You talked about not feeling motivated when you were battling depression and it seems like what was your lowest point. But now you seem like your boundless energy for this cause. What do you do on days when you don't feel motivated to do it?

Erica Wright: [00:17:33] You know to be honest there are a lot of days that I struggle. Depression is real you know. And a lot of people follow my social media and they're like, "Oh my God, Erica, you're always so bubbly so cheery." That's what gets me up in the morning to know that I'm making a difference in someone's life. And the people that have come in contact with U First — the volunteers, the donors, the well wishers — it's justbeen amazing. It's just been an amazing journey. I've met so many different people, who just, they have the same spark. So just to know that they're even putting the kits together and they may not even give it to someone but just the part that they know they have a place in this organization that they can help someone. It's just been amazing. So those are the stories that make me get up in the morning and once I get out of bed and I know that I'm about to go out and feed someone or give out socks or go to a school and speak. Just to inspired someone, that's definitely what drives me to keep moving. And the winning situation, what did it look like if we had shelters here when we looked like we had an opportunity to drive from California to Vegas. And I'm thinking about all of this land out here like we shouldn't have everyone just saturated in this dense populate dense area. You know so much out here we could just use it. And why not? I've seen it even in Oklahoma, they have a huge shelter where I say it, whatever your it is. If you have HIV, women with children, men with children, families. They had a place for everyone who's even you want to sleep there. You're just coming in for a shower. Whatever your group activities are, they had something for everyone. So when you see something like that in another state you think why can't this be across the board. Even with this whole thing was what's going on with the war, everybody's so divided, you're either a Democrat or you're republican. To me what happened to humanity? What happened to people? What happened to love? What happened to seeing my neighbor get up and be all that they can be? I mean, When did we stop just loving and being energized of people in itself? So Yeah, I get that.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:19:49] What's the biggest challenge? It sounds like the whole thing is a challenge. But what's your biggest challenge?

Erica Wright: [00:19:55] Of course, resources. Definitely money. Finances. Just this year with over 80,000 hygene kits, we did it probably with less than thirty thousand dollars less than $30,000. And basically all of the inventory that we got in was donated. So I'm often amazed at how we do things with the amount that we have. But I'm also energized because I can imagine what we could do with a hundred thousand dollars so resources would be number one thing that we would run into that hurdle. 

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:20:29] Have you ever thought of giving up?

Erica Wright: [00:20:30] Oh my gosh. Yes. There was one day I was going to throw in the towel. And of course by being a barber by trade I would do mobile haircuts. I have a guy who's in a wheelchair. So this particular morning I was like I'm just done, I'm done. So he wrote me a check and I left. And I had 20 dollars in my pocket. And so I saw this lady a homeless lady. She had all of her cans and bags in her shopping cart. And I said you know what I got some luggage in my trunk that somebody donated. I'm out, I'm going to give this out and I'm done. So I pulled over and I got out of the car, spoke to the lady and she was kind of talking a little bit out of her head. And she came over to the back of the car and she said, "I knew you were coming." And I said, "Excuse me." She said, "I knew you were coming." She said, "You know somebody stole my luggage last week." And I was like, thinking to myself, "No, I don't even know you." And so, I started to cry because when I opened the trunk, I had the luggage. And so it was as if God had sent an angel to to to say to me, "I have your back." And so right before I pulled off the Holy Spirit told me to plant a seed and give her the 20 dollars. And I was like no way I got to get gas, I got to take care of this, I gotta get something to eat. And so I turned around and gave her to twenty dollars. And she looked at it and she kind of started talking out of her head a little bit. And she turned around to me and looked me in my eyes and she said, "When you get your 501c3, doors and windows will open up beyond anything you can imagine." And I knew then that that was God's way of letting me know that I will always supply your needs and not to worry just keep doing what you're doing. And I cried, she cried. And I said, "God I never give up. I will never throw in the towel." So, that was one of those incredible moments in my life. Never forget it. Never Forget her. 

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:22:22] What's one lesson you've learned throughout the time doing this that really sticks with you?

Erica Wright: [00:22:27] The lesson that I've learned is to be open. Never be closed off. There will be people that will come and help. There will be people that will come and pray with you and pray on you. And I'm still learning. Again It didn't come with a blueprint. So I think my biggest challenge is, because I don't have the business blueprint to go with it, I'm often asking a lot of questions, going to different seminars, trying to figure out how do we sustain this is. It's not something that we're just doing for now. Definitely have a presence, not just in the city of Atlanta and Californian but we want to go global. And so along with that the challenge for me every day is just to dig into what I know and stretch my hands a little bit to what I don't know. And so far it's going pretty good. Can't complain.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:23:18] And what's been the most rewarding part so far?

Erica Wright: [00:23:20] Oh my God. To save people's faces, conversations, they will never leave my spirit. I have so many different testimonies, I can't even begin just one. I think the children definitely play a big impact on my heart. There is an innocence about a child and there's a different innocence about children who don't know about student loans, who don't know about foreclosure. They don't know that you know mom is having a bad day. They don't know that I am sleeping on one side of the shelter and my brother has to sleep on the other side because he's too old and we don't have enough family unit. So to see a child running your car to get a sandwich or a Bandaid or just whatever they need and to just play and hold right where they are and just don't even know that they don't have a place to stay, a room to go in. Those are the things that stay in my spirit. Those are the faces that I see in the morning. Those are the faces of sleep if I'm going to sleep. And I definitely want to keep doing what I'm doing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:24:26] Looking back on your journey so far, is there one moment that you can think, that was really courageous of me and it totally changed the path that I'm on?

Erica Wright: [00:24:38] I came to LA and I was supposed to go to Rancho Cucamonga. And I thought, "Okay, well I'll just ride the train." When I get to the train station, it was closed. So I was standing outside of Union Station at about 3:30 in the morning. I was like, oh my God. I'm in a place I don't know and I'm outhere, what is like, what do I do. And so I sat down on a bench and I saw all of the homeless people walking around, moving with their cars. Aand I'm saying, "It's 3:30 in morning. Like why not sleep?" And it hit me how this whole community of people are maneuvering and being, while we're asleep in our comfortable beds and it just hit me like this is a real. Although It's a hygiene kit, it opened up the door for so many different avenues for me to see people where they are. And so the next morning when I got myself situated I had to come back to being a station and I saw the people laying in a park. So a lot of times I hear people say well they're lazy they need to go get a job why is sleeping in a minute a day. Because they're up all night because of the abuse and being raped and molested. It's just so much that this community is embedded in and dwells in. And so for me to see that, and then to see them out open because they don't want anyone to mess with their belongings because that's all they have. And so that night, morning was something that would never leave my spirit and I know that it made it impact on my life to continue to do what I'm doing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:26:28] You've mentioned your mom a couple of times. Tell us about her and what lessons she taught you when you were young about what women could and couldn't do.

Erica Wright: [00:26:37] Oh wow. Well my mom was a stay at home mom. And I just thought she was Superwoman. She could do everything. She could cook. And she took us to basketball practice. And she was also a giver. My family, every Thanksgiving and Christmas, they would adopt a family from Family Children's Services. And we would go and drop off the Christmas items and I would go home and I would look up under my tree and I'm like, "This is not fair." Like how could I leave this lady and she has all these kids and I have so much. But my mom, her strength is, is incredible. She's 80 years old right now but I still see her do things that a 20-year-old can do. But she has truly made an impact in my life to giving and opening up. And she's always taught us to be us and be givers you know and just love people when they are. I love that about her.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:27:27] Have you had any mentors that have helped you grow U First into what it is now?

Erica Wright: [00:27:34] I'm going to be real honest. I think the people that I met on the journey, have all been a mentor and some some form or fashion. I've met people who had their own businesses to housewives to men who were just saying, "Hey, let me help you pick that up." And so it sparks that conversation to something else. "Oh, that's a great thing you're doing." "This happened to me." And I think those stories are the ones that make an impact in my life. I do love the stories of the Tyler Perry's people... I had the opportunity to meet Tyler Perry some years ago at the barbershop that I used to work in. He would come in and get a haircut. This is before he had any movies. And so he had a play he would bring these tickets and he would give them to us. And I remember going to the play and I was like, "It was okay." And then he stopped coming and I was like, "Oh my God, he used to come in the barbershop." So the stories that I hear about like Tiffany Haddish, who slept in her car. I get it because I believe in the law of attraction I believe in living your life with intention in your purpose and your vision. So I could hear in a little piece of her story in me when she talked about how she slept in a car outside of this mansion and said, "I'm going to live there." And so I have a couple of things in my phone that I'm praying that will happen for me. But it starts with that, just that dream.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:28:51] What's your secret to a rewarding life?

Erica Wright: [00:28:53] The secret is prayer, prayer. I am definitely, definitely, definitely in love with God. That is my secret. I know that I could not have done the things without God. And the experience of the vision that he gave me just to be in his presence. To be sitting here right now and talking about a passion of mine. Something that a lot of people don't take the chance to just step out on faith and do it. They're not willing to say, "I'm going to give up. I'm going to sacrifice to do this." So for me prayer and just knowing that God would do it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:29:34] Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Erica Wright: [00:29:37] It is what it is and I like what I like. And I don't like it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:29:44] What advice would you give to someone who really wants to help but just doesn't know where to start?

Erica Wright: [00:29:50] I would say do your homework, do your homework, Read. Just kind of have a visual what you would like to do and then try it just do it. I'm always open to people who say, "I can't do this. I can't come physically but I can financially contribute." Okay, well let's look at it differently. You don't just have to do monetary you can do a gift card for maybe McDonald's that we can give to some kids who can have after school lunch or something like that. So it's so many different things it's just really opening up the door first of all to let people know that they're welcome. A lot of times we hear other big groups, people can kind of get lost in that big corporation. So they go and volunteer but they don't get the fulfillment they need. So by us being a small group, people are kind of able to pick and choose the time. Well I don't want to do this. I Don't want to put the kits together but I just want to walk around and talk. And I just invite everybody to just come on out and how.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:30:46] And how can people specifically help U First? Where do they go? What Do you need from people right now?

Erica Wright: [00:30:53] We have a wish list on our website which is ProjectUFirst.org. Also we have a like page on Facebook. We have a group on Facebook called the Project U First. and we're on Twitter — ProjectUFirst, as well — and Instagram. Also on the wish list through our website, you can you know, if you want to send items to us, so if peple like to buy like a gift card, all of those links are on there .And we're definitely in need of, again, the items that we have printed on there. Just coming off this last trip has depleted our inventory, so we could use those items.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:31:29] What are you proudest of in your journey so far?

Erica Wright: [00:31:32] Connections. Connections. To see people connected. The people that I've met along the journey and now they're connected. We're a family. The U First team is truly a family and is from different make ups in life. We often use different websites to get people to come from different corporate sponsors like Delta or CNN. The employees will come and it will just take that one person to go back and say, "Oh my God, we did an amazing thing. We put fifteen hundred kits together last week and we took them to the shelters." And so once they come they interact with each other and then they exchange numbers. And also to see people use technology. Social media is free, well some are free, but if you use it in an effective way it can be your best friend or it can be dangerous on the opposite side. But I think social media and just being able to have a wide platform from people from different places. And then we're engaging as one. So I definitely love to see people come together.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:32:36] What's your definition of success?

Erica Wright: [00:32:38] I'm still learning that. Because sometimes I feel as if there's so much for us to do. And time waits for no one. And I believe that every day that we get up. And we're able to breathe we can do something different. So for me success is every day. It's every day that you're able to get up and make a difference in someone's life. Do something. What did you learn today? And even as an adult, I'll say, "I don't know if I should've done it." But I think definitely, every day success is a successful story.

Erica Wright is the founder of U FIRST, INC., a charitable organization dedicated to serving the homeless with the basic necessities in efforts to restore their dignity and help them to lead a healthy and whole life.

For more about Erica and U First.

Read more about The Passionistas Project.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to The Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and today we're talking to Erica Wright founder of the nonprofit organization U First Inc., a charitable organization dedicated to serving the homeless with the basic necessities in an effort to restore their dignity to lead a healthy and whole life.

So please welcome to the show Erica Wright.

Erica Wright: [00:00:21] Hi. Thank you guys so much for having me. I am just excited to be here, excited to talk about what we're doing with U First and our journey of homeless love.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:00:29] What are you most passionate about?

Erica Wright: [00:00:32] Right now, I'm definitely passionate about helping the homeless community bringing dignity back to their lives. I've experienced being homeless myself and I know what it feels like to meet someone. Sometimes your ego will allow you not to want to reach out to people. And so I just had a great group of people around me supporting me who pour it back into me even in the time of need. And s o the spirit has never left me. And even at a young age I've always felt like we could always do more because of the things that we have and so it's just been a passion of mine and to just give back to those in need.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:01:04] How does that translate into what you do for a living?

Erica Wright: [00:01:07] We do so many things that you U First. The passion is just not for our homeless community but as for those who are in need. So, it could be our children, who are in need with school supplies. Food. But my passion of helping the homeless community by keeping them clean is to put together these love acts we call them and they're just simple necessities of life like a washcloth, toothbrush, toothpaste, the things that we take for granted. And so it packaging these items and giving those to the people in need whether they're in shelters or under the bridge. I have a phrase of I believe everyone has a seat at the table. So Why not be able to get up in the morning and feel that love and sense of belonging, just from a small kit like a love bag. And that's truly my passion to do that. Put a smile on someone's face.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:01:52] How did that journey start? What was the seed of the idea to start doing this and how did it develop?

Erica Wright: [00:01:56] About 10 years ago, I saw this lady under the bridge, literally using a bottle of water to wash her hair. And It was cool that morning and I could see the steam coming from her head and it never left my spirit. I went through a bad breakup and I knew that I had a purpose and a passion and I needed to birth something. And so, August the 7th, 2014, I woke up from a dream and God had given me a vision. And I was like Paul, I just wrote out all of the things that were going to come forth with helping people and the name U First came about. And so, I didn't know what it was going to look like I didn't have any money and didn't have any credit and I had a blueprint. So, I heard this whisper, truly from God to use social media. And so what I would do, I spoke at Sunday school about my passion and my dream and my vision and two ladies from Sunday school started bringing hygiene items for the love bags. So I was able to put the kits together and that's how it started. So once people started getting engaged, with it I post it on social media and I would say, "Hey thank you Miss Jackson for donating two tubes of the toothpaste." And It just became contagious people from all over the place, I mean different states would just send items. And it's just been it's been amazing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:03:11] Tell us where it started, location wise, and how you've expanded it.

Erica Wright: [00:03:16] U First was birthed in Atlanta, Georgia. That's my hometown — born and raised. I have, this year, have been so about 19 different states. I had an opportunity to come to L.A. about three years ago and when I saw Skid Row, I just stood there and I cried. I could not believe that people were living in such deplorable circumstances. Not just people of my age, There were children men and women. It is just heartbreaking to see that. So a part of my journey this year, I wanted to really see what the states for doing, The little cities, different pockets, and what they were doing in their community and that I could bring back to the city of Atlanta and preferrably other places as we continue the journey. So right now our home base is in Atlanta. We work out of a storage unit there and sometimes we may have three storage units depending on the resources that we are able to obtain and put those items together. So We do not only hygiene kits, we do socks, blankets. We have different corporate sponsors, who make sure that we have things that we need to put into our kits. So hopefully next year we will branch out a little bit more in the L.A. area. Our goal is secure RV so that we can travel from different states and bless people at where they are.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:04:25] Talk about the accomplishments that you were able to make in 2017 and your goals for 2018 and if you've met them.

Erica Wright: [00:04:33] So last year we did over 220,000 blankets that were donated from Delta Airlines. So we touch lives in the shelters and people who live under the bridges. Also this year, God gave me a awesome number of a hundred thousand and I was like, "What Am I going to do with that?" And so the goal this year was to do 100,000 hygiene kits. And so to-date, we've done over 85,000 kits. Next year, of course, we have to go. So you know when I take it to the team and I say, "What do we think about 150,000?" I'm sure they're going to say, "Erica go sit down." But we're definitely looking to change more lives.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:05:11] What do you need to reach your goal?

Erica Wright: [00:05:22] We definitely need the resources. We depleted our inventory basically. We drove from Atlanta to New York in October. We did 18,000 kits. That was the largest number, the second drive we did. The first drive we drove from Atlanta to California and we did 11,000 kits. So right now storage is a little strained. We're asking the community to donate those items that we have on our wish list through our website which is ProjectUFirst.org. Again people from different places send items through to our P.O. Box. And so every second Saturday of the month, we come together and put the kids together. So always looking for volunteers, always looking for people who would like to maybe just write encouraging letters to the homeless and we'll put them in the kit as well. And so we have had people from Indiana just send those letters. But We're just always looking for people to get involved and to help give back. And it's U First that's what we do put people first.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:06:15] Tell us about the Love Lives Here event that you held this fall.

Erica Wright: [00:06:18] The Love Lives Here, it came to me of course in one of my awesome dreams about 3:30 in the morning when I wake up and I'm like oh my God, so what does this look like? So part of the Love Lives Here tour is to meet people where they are. One of the things that I've learned with doing this work is that people have a perception of what they think being homeless means and it is a broad, broad statement when you say homelessness. And so for me, I wanted to, again, meet people where they are and show them love where they live. And so that's why we call it the Love Lives Here tour. So again we drove from Atlanta, Georgia to New York City again dispersing over 18,000 hygiene kits. And we stopped in every state. We stepped in every state along the way. We actually had a chance to sit down with CEOs of different shelters to talk about how they got into opening up the shelter and what does it look like for their state — you know the population and so on and so forth. So the Love Lives Here tour, Once we were able to just start taking a journey from when we came from Atlanta to California, it opened up our eyes that this thing is really serious. Like We're experiencing so many of our LGBTQ youth, who run away, Who just don't know how to come out and present. And so these kids need safe places that they can go. But then there is the politics of the whole homelessness situation where, youth or a certain age that some states can't technically have a shelter for them. And so you run into all of these roadblocks when it comes to political this or that. And so I think it's important for us to really just sink into where people live. They are under the bridge and this is their circumstance right now, whether they know to do better, either through mental illness or they want to do better, I just think that we should have the resources to be able to help them where they are. That's why we call it Love Lives Here. We just love people where they were.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:08:12] Are you finding any politicians along the way that are being super supportive of your mission?

Erica Wright: [00:08:19] That is something that I'm still in search of. We do have support in Atlanta. Of course, being raised there I know a lot of people of course use the social media and people just see what we're actually doing in a community has spark some conversation from our city council and those who work close at City Hall. But at the end of the day it's one of these markets, there are a lot of people who are giving back in a city like Atlanta, so it can become saturated and you can kind of sometimes get looked over. I myself talk about doing this work and I am not a heterosexual male, who has a family, who's able to just have that seat automatically at the table and I have found it a little challenging you know presenting as a gay person to be able to kind of tap into other avenues when it just comes to just helping people. And so I would like to see a little bit more support, not just in the homeless communities of the shelters, but those people who are actually, the grassroots organizations who are out on the ground, who are out here every day making sure people are fed and have the simple necessities of life. So, of course, I would love to see more politicians get involved in this effort to help people get off the streets.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:09:31] Would you ever get into politics yourself?

Erica Wright: [00:09:33] It was funny I was just talking about that yesterday. I don't know but I do know when I started this I didn't know what it was going to look like. Now that I'm in it, I'm in it to win. I believe that we all have a fight in this to whatever your justice is whatever that is. And so I won't rule it out to say that I won't rule it out. But if there's something that I'm considering doing I would love to be able to do it from the standpoint from where the people are, from not the inside out but the outside it. And I think that that's what's missing right now in America. We have a lot of politicians that are working this way and not understanding what the people need and hearing the voices of the people. And I think that that was something I would consider. I was started that way.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:10:21] So you said you're in it to win it. So what would winning look like to you?

Erica Wright: [00:10:26] Winning to me would look like every homeless person that I've ever seen liked to come off the street that they would have a place to do that. And oftentimes, even just doing his work this year with the Love Lives Here tour going to different places, we were able to have conversations with different people. We're talking about doctors and lawyers. And we're talking about nurses. We're talking about students. And so there's no face to it. You know it's not about race. It's not about your gender. It's not just about your sexual orientation. It is just that, your misfortune or you know we were just talking about the fires here in L.A. These people now are homeless. The work that we're doing right now is to support people where they are. So in it to win it for me is not where somebody could tell me what I can and can't do. Well I've had people say you can never get grants just for health and hygiene items. Well, I don't believe that. And guess what we need them but we didn't just write off them. But to tell me that I can't do something when I see people who are living in situations that, a lot through no fault of their own, so what's happening is am I supposed to tell someone that you have a bite that I don't have Neosporin for you or if you need something, you're hungry and I don't have food for you. So I believe that just having someone to be able to give those people who are experiencing homelessness what they need, that's why I fight. So I want to win at helping them get exactly what they need, where they are. And I won't allow people to tell me it can't be done because in the last four years we've been able to do it and do it with no grant money so I'm definitely in it to win it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:12:06] What can your average person do to help the homeless and also what do we need the politicians to do? What changes need to happen?

Erica Wright: [00:12:14] On the home front of the politicians, it's a stroke of a pen is a stroke of a conversation, it's just striking up the conversation at the table with, again, the people who are out doing the grassroots work who are having the conversations, the tough conversations. And then seeing what the people need. For instance, when I first started I was given people on the street luggage and they would say, "Do you have a book bag?" And so you know you identified where they are and what the needs are. And so I think that's the beginning of that — having a seat at the table with the politicians to say, ,"Hey, we're doing the work. Why are you cutting this funding?" Also we have a lot of children who go to school who are homeless. We have to start there as well. If you have kids that are coming and they're not able to eat. They don't have proper school supplies. All of that trickles down back into the homeless community growing because of education, because of lack of jobs, Because of this. And All of that starts with the politicians at the table. And so what we look for in the community to help, I often tell people you don't have to give money, especially if you don't have it. But just that if I'm making a sandwich in the morning maybe I'll make two or you cut off a section of that and just have it on the seat. I mean if you encounter someone, just you know politely ask if they would like something to eat or you can do hygiene kits on the front of your seat, socks, nutritional bars. And that's another part about what we see in the homeless community because they don't get what they need, we see a lot of people who are suffering from diabetes, mental illness, and they're not getting the medication that they need. Just the simple things like maybe clean needles for diabetics. And so again all of that plays a part of someone being whole and healthy so that they can be productive citizens and to get back into society. And you can just start with a hygene kit. Because If you're not able to groom yourself, then the trickle down effect of your health can just be something that can even prolong your ability to get off of the streets and into society.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:14:16] You mentioned that you've had your own experiences being homeless but what have you learned about a lot of the people that are on the streets that either has surprised you or might surprise people listening?

Erica Wright: [00:14:30] I never thought in a million years that I would tell this story. I came from a great home. Two loving parents, sisters and brothers. I'm a barber by trade, so great career. And I just fell into life. And so even through my experience I think the hardest thing for me. Everything was a trickle down effect. I lost my health insurance. I have been diagnosed with bipolar and anxiety. And so I couldn't get my medicine. And so it was just a downward spiral from being here to just here. And so for me it took everything I had, every day, just get up in the morning. And I wanted to commit suicide. I wanted to die. And I got up one morning off the floor in the office where I stayed and I saw this lady sleeping in a cardboard box and it was raining. And so for me God me the vision that Erika you know different from the lady behind you. The difference is you just have a covering over your head. And so in having different conversations with different people knowing my own struggle with mental illness I would say probably ninety-five percent of people who are on the streets have some type of mental disability. I think for me just anyone with a normalcy about themselves and have to experience certain things at some point, battle depression or something like that. And so just having conversations with those people who are in need, you see through that. You see through that wall and see through that barrier because it was you, it was your story. It might not have been this. It might have been that. But at the end of the day you can kind of resonate with where they are and that's how you want people to see you as a person and not your experience of you're just not defined in your location or where you live. So it is very hard to see people who are not able to articulate what they need and where they are based on their mental status. And so this is again where we need the politicians to come in to have that tough conversation. So how do we get someone off the street who has mental illness? How do I identify and how do we not cross that red tape to what we can and cannot do? And I think at some point people have to make a decision because these people are experiencing this. They're walking around in our community and we have a blind eye to it. And I think that we have to do a better job of identifying it and also what can you do legally to get people off the street and get them the help that they need. And I think that's going to be probably one of the challenges that I can see facing you know for anyone a politician or any a grassroot organization because you just can't take someone's rights to take off them the street.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:17:19] You talked about not feeling motivated when you were battling depression and it seems like what was your lowest point. But now you seem like your boundless energy for this cause. What do you do on days when you don't feel motivated to do it?

Erica Wright: [00:17:33] You know to be honest there are a lot of days that I struggle. Depression is real you know. And a lot of people follow my social media and they're like, "Oh my God, Erica, you're always so bubbly so cheery." That's what gets me up in the morning to know that I'm making a difference in someone's life. And the people that have come in contact with U First — the volunteers, the donors, the well wishers — it's justbeen amazing. It's just been an amazing journey. I've met so many different people, who just, they have the same spark. So just to know that they're even putting the kits together and they may not even give it to someone but just the part that they know they have a place in this organization that they can help someone. It's just been amazing. So those are the stories that make me get up in the morning and once I get out of bed and I know that I'm about to go out and feed someone or give out socks or go to a school and speak. Just to inspired someone, that's definitely what drives me to keep moving. And the winning situation, what did it look like if we had shelters here when we looked like we had an opportunity to drive from California to Vegas. And I'm thinking about all of this land out here like we shouldn't have everyone just saturated in this dense populate dense area. You know so much out here we could just use it. And why not? I've seen it even in Oklahoma, they have a huge shelter where I say it, whatever your it is. If you have HIV, women with children, men with children, families. They had a place for everyone who's even you want to sleep there. You're just coming in for a shower. Whatever your group activities are, they had something for everyone. So when you see something like that in another state you think why can't this be across the board. Even with this whole thing was what's going on with the war, everybody's so divided, you're either a Democrat or you're republican. To me what happened to humanity? What happened to people? What happened to love? What happened to seeing my neighbor get up and be all that they can be? I mean, When did we stop just loving and being energized of people in itself? So Yeah, I get that.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:19:49] What's the biggest challenge? It sounds like the whole thing is a challenge. But what's your biggest challenge?

Erica Wright: [00:19:55] Of course, resources. Definitely money. Finances. Just this year with over 80,000 hygene kits, we did it probably with less than thirty thousand dollars less than $30,000. And basically all of the inventory that we got in was donated. So I'm often amazed at how we do things with the amount that we have. But I'm also energized because I can imagine what we could do with a hundred thousand dollars so resources would be number one thing that we would run into that hurdle. 

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:20:29] Have you ever thought of giving up?

Erica Wright: [00:20:30] Oh my gosh. Yes. There was one day I was going to throw in the towel. And of course by being a barber by trade I would do mobile haircuts. I have a guy who's in a wheelchair. So this particular morning I was like I'm just done, I'm done. So he wrote me a check and I left. And I had 20 dollars in my pocket. And so I saw this lady a homeless lady. She had all of her cans and bags in her shopping cart. And I said you know what I got some luggage in my trunk that somebody donated. I'm out, I'm going to give this out and I'm done. So I pulled over and I got out of the car, spoke to the lady and she was kind of talking a little bit out of her head. And she came over to the back of the car and she said, "I knew you were coming." And I said, "Excuse me." She said, "I knew you were coming." She said, "You know somebody stole my luggage last week." And I was like, thinking to myself, "No, I don't even know you." And so, I started to cry because when I opened the trunk, I had the luggage. And so it was as if God had sent an angel to to to say to me, "I have your back." And so right before I pulled off the Holy Spirit told me to plant a seed and give her the 20 dollars. And I was like no way I got to get gas, I got to take care of this, I gotta get something to eat. And so I turned around and gave her to twenty dollars. And she looked at it and she kind of started talking out of her head a little bit. And she turned around to me and looked me in my eyes and she said, "When you get your 501c3, doors and windows will open up beyond anything you can imagine." And I knew then that that was God's way of letting me know that I will always supply your needs and not to worry just keep doing what you're doing. And I cried, she cried. And I said, "God I never give up. I will never throw in the towel." So, that was one of those incredible moments in my life. Never forget it. Never Forget her. 

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:22:22] What's one lesson you've learned throughout the time doing this that really sticks with you?

Erica Wright: [00:22:27] The lesson that I've learned is to be open. Never be closed off. There will be people that will come and help. There will be people that will come and pray with you and pray on you. And I'm still learning. Again It didn't come with a blueprint. So I think my biggest challenge is, because I don't have the business blueprint to go with it, I'm often asking a lot of questions, going to different seminars, trying to figure out how do we sustain this is. It's not something that we're just doing for now. Definitely have a presence, not just in the city of Atlanta and Californian but we want to go global. And so along with that the challenge for me every day is just to dig into what I know and stretch my hands a little bit to what I don't know. And so far it's going pretty good. Can't complain.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:23:18] And what's been the most rewarding part so far?

Erica Wright: [00:23:20] Oh my God. To save people's faces, conversations, they will never leave my spirit. I have so many different testimonies, I can't even begin just one. I think the children definitely play a big impact on my heart. There is an innocence about a child and there's a different innocence about children who don't know about student loans, who don't know about foreclosure. They don't know that you know mom is having a bad day. They don't know that I am sleeping on one side of the shelter and my brother has to sleep on the other side because he's too old and we don't have enough family unit. So to see a child running your car to get a sandwich or a Bandaid or just whatever they need and to just play and hold right where they are and just don't even know that they don't have a place to stay, a room to go in. Those are the things that stay in my spirit. Those are the faces that I see in the morning. Those are the faces of sleep if I'm going to sleep. And I definitely want to keep doing what I'm doing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:24:26] Looking back on your journey so far, is there one moment that you can think, that was really courageous of me and it totally changed the path that I'm on?

Erica Wright: [00:24:38] I came to LA and I was supposed to go to Rancho Cucamonga. And I thought, "Okay, well I'll just ride the train." When I get to the train station, it was closed. So I was standing outside of Union Station at about 3:30 in the morning. I was like, oh my God. I'm in a place I don't know and I'm outhere, what is like, what do I do. And so I sat down on a bench and I saw all of the homeless people walking around, moving with their cars. Aand I'm saying, "It's 3:30 in morning. Like why not sleep?" And it hit me how this whole community of people are maneuvering and being, while we're asleep in our comfortable beds and it just hit me like this is a real. Although It's a hygiene kit, it opened up the door for so many different avenues for me to see people where they are. And so the next morning when I got myself situated I had to come back to being a station and I saw the people laying in a park. So a lot of times I hear people say well they're lazy they need to go get a job why is sleeping in a minute a day. Because they're up all night because of the abuse and being raped and molested. It's just so much that this community is embedded in and dwells in. And so for me to see that, and then to see them out open because they don't want anyone to mess with their belongings because that's all they have. And so that night, morning was something that would never leave my spirit and I know that it made it impact on my life to continue to do what I'm doing.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:26:28] You've mentioned your mom a couple of times. Tell us about her and what lessons she taught you when you were young about what women could and couldn't do.

Erica Wright: [00:26:37] Oh wow. Well my mom was a stay at home mom. And I just thought she was Superwoman. She could do everything. She could cook. And she took us to basketball practice. And she was also a giver. My family, every Thanksgiving and Christmas, they would adopt a family from Family Children's Services. And we would go and drop off the Christmas items and I would go home and I would look up under my tree and I'm like, "This is not fair." Like how could I leave this lady and she has all these kids and I have so much. But my mom, her strength is, is incredible. She's 80 years old right now but I still see her do things that a 20-year-old can do. But she has truly made an impact in my life to giving and opening up. And she's always taught us to be us and be givers you know and just love people when they are. I love that about her.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:27:27] Have you had any mentors that have helped you grow U First into what it is now?

Erica Wright: [00:27:34] I'm going to be real honest. I think the people that I met on the journey, have all been a mentor and some some form or fashion. I've met people who had their own businesses to housewives to men who were just saying, "Hey, let me help you pick that up." And so it sparks that conversation to something else. "Oh, that's a great thing you're doing." "This happened to me." And I think those stories are the ones that make an impact in my life. I do love the stories of the Tyler Perry's people... I had the opportunity to meet Tyler Perry some years ago at the barbershop that I used to work in. He would come in and get a haircut. This is before he had any movies. And so he had a play he would bring these tickets and he would give them to us. And I remember going to the play and I was like, "It was okay." And then he stopped coming and I was like, "Oh my God, he used to come in the barbershop." So the stories that I hear about like Tiffany Haddish, who slept in her car. I get it because I believe in the law of attraction I believe in living your life with intention in your purpose and your vision. So I could hear in a little piece of her story in me when she talked about how she slept in a car outside of this mansion and said, "I'm going to live there." And so I have a couple of things in my phone that I'm praying that will happen for me. But it starts with that, just that dream.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:28:51] What's your secret to a rewarding life?

Erica Wright: [00:28:53] The secret is prayer, prayer. I am definitely, definitely, definitely in love with God. That is my secret. I know that I could not have done the things without God. And the experience of the vision that he gave me just to be in his presence. To be sitting here right now and talking about a passion of mine. Something that a lot of people don't take the chance to just step out on faith and do it. They're not willing to say, "I'm going to give up. I'm going to sacrifice to do this." So for me prayer and just knowing that God would do it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:29:34] Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Erica Wright: [00:29:37] It is what it is and I like what I like. And I don't like it.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:29:44] What advice would you give to someone who really wants to help but just doesn't know where to start?

Erica Wright: [00:29:50] I would say do your homework, do your homework, Read. Just kind of have a visual what you would like to do and then try it just do it. I'm always open to people who say, "I can't do this. I can't come physically but I can financially contribute." Okay, well let's look at it differently. You don't just have to do monetary you can do a gift card for maybe McDonald's that we can give to some kids who can have after school lunch or something like that. So it's so many different things it's just really opening up the door first of all to let people know that they're welcome. A lot of times we hear other big groups, people can kind of get lost in that big corporation. So they go and volunteer but they don't get the fulfillment they need. So by us being a small group, people are kind of able to pick and choose the time. Well I don't want to do this. I Don't want to put the kits together but I just want to walk around and talk. And I just invite everybody to just come on out and how.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:30:46] And how can people specifically help U First? Where do they go? What Do you need from people right now?

Erica Wright: [00:30:53] We have a wish list on our website which is ProjectUFirst.org. Also we have a like page on Facebook. We have a group on Facebook called the Project U First. and we're on Twitter — ProjectUFirst, as well — and Instagram. Also on the wish list through our website, you can you know, if you want to send items to us, so if peple like to buy like a gift card, all of those links are on there .And we're definitely in need of, again, the items that we have printed on there. Just coming off this last trip has depleted our inventory, so we could use those items.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:31:29] What are you proudest of in your journey so far?

Erica Wright: [00:31:32] Connections. Connections. To see people connected. The people that I've met along the journey and now they're connected. We're a family. The U First team is truly a family and is from different make ups in life. We often use different websites to get people to come from different corporate sponsors like Delta or CNN. The employees will come and it will just take that one person to go back and say, "Oh my God, we did an amazing thing. We put fifteen hundred kits together last week and we took them to the shelters." And so once they come they interact with each other and then they exchange numbers. And also to see people use technology. Social media is free, well some are free, but if you use it in an effective way it can be your best friend or it can be dangerous on the opposite side. But I think social media and just being able to have a wide platform from people from different places. And then we're engaging as one. So I definitely love to see people come together.

Pop Culture Passionistas: [00:32:36] What's your definition of success?

Erica Wright: [00:32:38] I'm still learning that. Because sometimes I feel as if there's so much for us to do. And time waits for no one. And I believe that every day that we get up. And we're able to breathe we can do something different. So for me success is every day. It's every day that you're able to get up and make a difference in someone's life. Do something. What did you learn today? And even as an adult, I'll say, "I don't know if I should've done it." But I think definitely, every day success is a successful story.

Susan X Jane is a diversity educator, speaker and trainer.

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Susan X Jane on Beyonce

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harington. If you enjoy listening to the show please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going and you'll get rewards like buttons access to premium content and invites to Passionistas.

Project events. Today we're talking to Susan X Jane — a diversity educator speaker and trainer. Susan is a former professor and youth worker who now consults with organizations looking to make sense of our current cultural shift. So please welcome to the show Susan X Jane.

Susan X Jane: [00:00:35] Hi. Thank you for having me.

Passionistas: [00:00:38] Susan, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Susan X Jane: [00:00:41] Definitely diversity and inclusion. Really thinking about race. I care about all kinds of diversity and social justice. I think that we all have to get together. But my particular interest really lies around race and also the way that race is represented. How we talk about it. The stories that we tell about it and how those stories shape what we think race is and how we experience it.

Passionistas: [00:01:08] How does that translate into what you do for a living?

Susan X Jane: [00:01:11] It is kind of an odd niche thing to do for a living. So I think that I've always just kind of found places where people were interested in doing the work to really think about identity and to think about race. But I have to be honest it used to be like you're wandering in the wilderness and I was the only person it felt like that really cared a lot about this. There wasn't a lot of focus. I remember a lot of times going to people to try to say, "Hey it would really be great if you guys talked about race." And people saying, "Oh those issues are really done. We don't have to do that anymore."

But we all now know that we've got to talk about race. But still I find that it's a awkward and uncomfortable conversation. And it's such a kind of amorphous idea that I think people really are often intimidated by how to like touch it so teaching education. And now that everybody is really saying well, "What does this mean for me?" I think working with the organizations to step in and to bring my expertise to help answer that question.

Passionistas: [00:02:15] What inspired you to start to do this for a living?

Susan X Jane: [00:02:19] I always joke that I started doing race work when I was in utero. So before I was born. I am biracial and I'm also a trans racial adoptee. Which means that I am a person of color who was adopted by a white family. And this happened — I'm going to age myself here — but this happened in '69 and it was kind of like that NICHD right in between civil rights kind of like coming to some fruition and busing. So it was a moment kind of fraught with some racial tension and so because of the way adoption was I don't know what the story was. But I imagine there were probably some conversations about race involved in my adoption process. And certainly from my parents and those conversations about race were from the very beginning.

So I think that I have always been a person that has been standing on this kind of racial line in America. And so it's really been an interesting process. I grew up in an all white community and then I went to college and came out of the house and started thinking about this stuff and it really was very curious to me.

I think being free from having family that are centered in one side or another I really have pursued the idea of the concepts about race and what that means and how that is different for different people. So it's really been kind of a lifelong passion for me and I've just been blessed to be able to turn it into a professional passion as well.

Passionistas: [00:03:53] And you actually created a program at Wheelock College centered around this.

Susan X Jane: [00:03:59] Yeah, I was doing youth media work. And I was relatively new to youth media work when I started it. And I worked for the YWCA. And so they asked me how can we make youth media and racism and empowering women connect?

And so I really started to chase that question about how do the messages and the representation of race in our popular culture, and particularly in media, how do they shape our actual experiences and our reality. And so I connected with some people at Wheelock College when I was doing that work. They wanted to start a communications program. And that school had been focused really on thinking about change makers and students as as activists and agents of change. And so I was really lucky to be able to build a communication program that brought those things together.

Passionistas: [00:04:53] How have the issues surrounding race and media changed since you first developed the project?

Susan X Jane: [00:04:59] I think things are so different now than they used to be. I think that you know I think our history is very much a spiral. We kind of go through the same cycles but each time we go through it we've elevated a little bit. And like I said when I first started thinking about race and media it wasn't really a topic that I got any traction with. Nobody was really wanting to talk about it. We really had been thinking that we were kind of post racial. As you know when we got through with the Obama administration we were all crying. We thought that was it. And now I think people realize, "Oh this element that really is at the very foundation of America is still impeding our ability to become the kind of nation that we've always dreamed to be." I call it our better angels.

And so I think that now people are really interested in it. It's super exciting to see things like Oscars So White or the amount of representation on TV. Thinking about who is in the writers room. These are issues that I feel like I've taught about for a long time. And it's like Obama getting elected. I didn't ever think I would see this where we're like, "Hey who's in your writers room?" You know that is really exciting stuff. So I think that we're in a moment where a lot of things can change. But like a lot of change that's happening now we have to really be very vigilant to make sure that we actually turn a corner. So it's an exciting time for sure.

Passionistas: [00:06:28] How do we turn that corner?

Susan X Jane: [00:06:30] I think that having better conversations about race is a couple of things. One we have to actually get clear about race. I think if you asked 100 people what race is they would have wildly different ideas about it. Because some people experience it very much on the individual level. Other people are really struggling with structural oppression and racism. And so there's a lot of misunderstanding about how those things connect and what they actually are. So the first thing is that we have to have some clear conversation so we all know what we're talking about. But I really think that what we're seeing now just this long term shift over the last five years, ten years where we're seeing different representation. Where we're seeing different voices fill up all these channels that technology is giving us. I think that makes a huge difference. I think that social media and the Internet has the ability to be really democratizing but that we have to really be able to leverage it and so that means getting great voices like you ladies out there and getting people hearing about it. And having us talk about things like, "What does it mean to be an empowered woman?" That doesn't that wasn't a story that we were hearing 10 or 20 or 30 years ago you know. And so that work brick by brick I think is how we move forward.

Passionistas: [00:07:50] I'm encouraged to hear how optimistic you are in this conversation. But how do we deal with the fact that it's now OK for people to kind of say these things that maybe they weren't saying for a long time?

Susan X Jane: [00:08:03] Well the thing is they were always saying them they just maybe weren't saying them in public. And so I think again technology and the shifts in media have really changed the way that conversations and it was really just changed where that conversation it's not behind closed doors. It's out in public.

I like to say that I'm totally unreasonably optimistic. All of the data points to... We're really in a dark corner. And I have my days where I really have to sit and say, "Wow this is really, really bad." Even with the recent election we get so excited we see all this change and then it's like it is a brick by brick process. So it is really difficult. But what makes me optimistic is that we are moving towards something that is inevitable. We are rapidly becoming a majority minority country. For a young people that are under 18, we are already a majority minority country. So millennials really live in a world that is multicultural already.

Our planet is getting smaller and I think unfortunately with climate change that will continue to happen. We're kind of at this point where I'm not alone anymore in thinking these things. And even though it's really hard for people to think about and to experience like we're all thinking about it together. And that's super exciting. I think that that's how change happens.

I'll tell you a short story if I can. In Massachusetts we had Question 3 where we were talking about the rights of trans people. And I had a conversation with my mother who is a white woman, and an older white woman, myself, a person of color, and my young niece who is a queer identifying young woman. And so the three of us had a really hard conversation about what does it mean. And my mother asking questions like, "I don't understand this and this isn't the way it used to be." And rather than us getting into the fight that we always in our discourse we just sat with the heaviness. And we talked it through and she decided to vote yes.

And I think, sorry. It was very emotional because I think for Ciba to see your grandmother sees you as you are was incredibly powerful. And that's the hard work is getting into those conversations with the people that we care about and making that change.

It is intense because it's very personal work. But in the end it when you make it personal it's like can you see me. And that's what makes it intense and personal and also powerful. And I think, on an individual level, people can feel each other. They can see each other across those lines. And I think the challenge is getting people to move away from ideas that they've had.

I work a lot with young people and young people always say, "Well when old people die off those ideas will go away." And they won't. When we look at Charlottesville those were young people with torches. The thing is that people have to have a space to ask those questions. Why is it this way? Why would somebody propose a law that would restrict somebody else's rights? And rather than attacking them, that's a real question. And the information was not always available to people. When my mother went to school they didn't talk about these issues. They didn't... She said to me we didn't have these issues. And I think for her was really validating to hear. Yes, something new is happening and we want you to be a part of it.

And she asked from a place of really wanting to be a part of it. She's very much an independent minded person. And so it was about seeking information. But when I said to her it really comes down to us and look at me I am a person of color. What would you want for me? And instantly she said, "I see it clearly." You know and so that's what we have to do is to have those hard conversations across the boundaries. Not equal conversations. I think a lot of times we get into this fairness bias where they say well one side says this. So we have to hear what the other side says. And I say you know we're kind of in a place where there are two sides. You are either for justice for everybody or you are not.

And I don't see a middle ground that we really need to cover in there. That's going to move us forward. There may be two sides but if we really want to be able to move forward in a way that is humane and liberatory that's it. And the question is simple. You know like with my mother when I said to her, "What is it about discrimination or you that you know are you for it or against it?" And instantly all of the arguments fell away and she was able to clearly see that it is a simple question. And I think it's a simple question a lot of the time.

Passionistas: [00:12:52] Talk a little bit about the consulting work you do with organizations during this cultural shift.

Susan X Jane: [00:12:58] This is exciting because this is some new stuff that I've been doing in the last couple of years. As people are starting to realize that we are in this shifting culture and that demographics of race, around gender, thinking about how millennials think and approach work. Organizations are saying, "I'm not really sure how we get through this or even how to think about these things." And I think that makes sense. A lot of what we're seeing is actual real change. There are new ways of thinking about it. There are new ways of reacting to it. And organizations really need to bring in sometimes the capacity to do that work and to help walk them through a process that will give them a plan that they can execute on to really make their organizations more inclusive.

Passionistas: [00:13:48] What kinds of companies are you finding that are doing this?

Susan X Jane: [00:13:52] I think that there is a lot of diversity work happening across all the sectors which is really exciting. I think a lot of organizations that are larger and are able to are bringing in diversity officers. So there was no CDO you know 10 or 20 years ago and now many major organizations have them. A lot of smaller organizations sometimes have difficulty having the capacity to have someone in-house. So I like to work with organizations that maybe are smaller or mid-range organizations that really want to grow their ability in this area. And they just want to get some some expertise and some guidance and some technical assistance making that happen. And I particularly am interested in the non-profit and higher-ed space. That's where I've been. And I think even though we are sectors that are really concerned about making the world better, we still have to have those clear conversations and plans to make it happen.

Passionistas: [00:14:47] So how do you approach your work with these organizations? What kinds of things do you do?

Susan X Jane: [00:14:52] The first thing is to kind of work with an organization to name what's happening. We all have this sense that something is happening and I think that it is rare for organizations to say, "Let's create the space and the time to actually name what is happening. To look at the shifts. To kind of look at some of the data." Because once you see where some of the data is trending it makes it a lot easier for organizations to make this a priority.

Being attentive to diversity isn't an add on anymore. If 51 percent of the country is women and more than 40 percent of the country is minorities. If you're not doing work that is inclusive, you're leaving a lot of people out of your tent. And so the first thing is to really name what's going on to talk about some of the changes. Our understanding about race — scientifically, culturally, sociologically — that's all been changing. And so I think it's important for them to start there.

And for me personally, I think something that's important that really comes from my background and my upbringing is rather than taking a binary approach — like you're either for it or against it — is for each person to say, "Where am I in the process? And how do I do my work to move forward?" We're not going to end racism this week. We're not going to end racism this year.

And so I think planning for the long haul means each person needs to kind of look at what's happening and then dig into, 'What's my role in it?" And for organizations that also means what are the things that we can do organizationally and what the teams have to do?

Hiring is really important, but H.R. can't be the only department where people are thinking about diversity. You need people thinking about it and every single team and we know from lots of studies that inclusive environments are more productive environments. They're happier environments. They are more successful and they're more profitable. And so for organizations they really need to think about how do all of my teams leverage diversity and inclusion to make them work that they do more satisfying and more successful in terms of their goals?

Passionistas: [00:17:05] We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project podcast and our interview with Susan X Jane. Visit our website smntks.com To read more of her insights on media race and pop culture. And now here's more of our interview with Susan.

Passionistas: [00:17:22] Can you tell people a little bit about your website?

Susan X Jane: [00:17:25] I've been blogging at my web web site semantics for a few years now for about four years now. And I try to just take a look at what's going on out there and talk a lot about that intersection of race and culture and media. And thinking about how the messages that we're getting are affecting us and are affecting the way that we see the world. And I unfortunately write about Kanye West too much. But I try to look at what's happening in pop culture around race. It used to be a lot easier when I started writing four years ago. Now I feel like there's a new story every couple of minutes and I think that means that we're moving forward. We're all in this conversation now and it is also really tiring.

But I love to write. I love to connect with people and talk about what it is that I see and hear back from people what they're thinking. I think that more than anything culture is this process that we move through together. So writing about it gives me a chance to really kind of step into that process with readers and go through it together.

Passionistas: [00:18:31] You mentioned a little while ago, there are days where you feel sort of defeated. How do you continue? How do you get back on your feet and move forward?

Susan X Jane: [00:18:39] It's challenging I think there's a lot of talk about self-care out there which has lots of really great ideas about what you can do to take care of yourself. But I think that understanding it as a lifelong process and accepting that that's what it is really important.

I've been thinking about culture like I said my whole life and it is exhausting. So sometimes I unplug. I like to be creative. So I go and craft or paint or walk my dog. I think nature is a great antidote. When we connect and see the processes of nature that are around us, it reminds us that this too shall pass.

Sometimes I will go buy a home improvement projects tool and do something I don't know how to do. Like put a door on or you know shingles. I did not do well with shingles. So I try to push myself outside of my comfort zone and I think interacting with the material world and recognizing that for all the conversation for all the intensity of our discourse that the physical world still exists. And that we can go out and hug people and look at the sky and exchange connection. And that that world is the most important world. And that that world is still out there and that's what we're doing it all for anyways.

Passionistas: [00:19:59] Is there a lesson that you've learned so far in your career that you've kind of carried with you throughout it?

Susan X Jane: [00:20:06] You have to orient yourself in a place of deep empathy to do the work. When we talk about racism or sexism or classism what we're really looking at is division. Ways that we divide up the massive amount of humans on this planet. And the purpose of that division is allocation of resources — time, power, money. That's really the bottom line underneath it all. And so when we are done arguing with who's done what to whom, the question really is who's holding power and who is really in need of power? And so I think that that for me is the thread that runs through all of it. And that I think is the thing that allows you to tap into that empathy.

When We get into a hard issue like the conversation with my mother around thinking about trans rights. When I asked her to think about you know who has power here? It seemed much clearer to her than listening to all of the rhetoric that goes around. I think we have a lot of rhetoric in our community. But when you orient yourself in your empathy, you are most able to do this work.

And that means thinking carefully about why do people disagree? And to not think people are stupid or crazy or ignorant, but to realize that people have very valid points of view that are different. And we need to help them free themselves from these layers of social structure to be able to see deeply their own humanity and to connect to their own compassion and empathy.

It's easy to do the work when you are looking at people that agree with you. It's very hard to sit and to say to someone, "I love you enough to want to walk you back to a place where we are connected, even though you are telling me you hate me." People that are full of hate are not in integrity with themselves. And that is where I get my empathy from. That I'm not angry at you. I see what is out of integrity with your greatest possibilities and that allows me to want the best for you.

Passionistas: [00:22:23] What's been your biggest professional challenge and however you overcome it?

Susan X Jane: [00:22:27] I think the biggest challenge for me is that I am doing something that kind of lives outside of a really defined space. I mean now there's a lot of space to talk about diversity and inclusion, but it hasn't always been this way. So I think my biggest professional challenge is really finding where is the place where what I do lives. Somebody asked me that question, "Where does what you do live?"

That's such a good question and that's the challenge for me is finding what's happening now that will put me in a place where I can really you know kind of use my skills to move things forward for the next five years, for the next 10 years, so I can really dig into scale and a way of being and do good work in that area. So finding my space and trusting my voice I think that's very much for a lot of women and women of color. You're trained to like be quiet. Don't be crazy and just trusting my voice if I had anything to say to my 13-year-old self. It would be like screaming from the rooftops, "Girl right!"

Passionistas: [00:23:31] What's the most rewarding part of your career?

Susan X Jane: [00:23:34] I feel a deep sense of purpose with what I do. And I feel like that's incredibly rewarding. You know to be able to see people open up to their own possibilities is such a gift. And to have people say like, "Oh you helped me do that." The payoff for that is enormous and huge. And so it always makes me feel like each day I can wake up and say, "Oh yeah like I feel really gratified and really fulfilled in pursuing like a deep lifelong purpose." And that is such a gift.

Passionistas: [00:24:05] Looking back on your path so far is there one decision that you look at that you consider the most courageous thing that you did that sort of changed your trajectory?

Passionistas: [00:24:15] I say yes. When I don't want to sometimes. And I think that there have been a number of times that people have said, "Oh you know can you do x." And I think and then I just yes. I can do that.

And so there are a couple of times that I've stepped out on a yes that really pushed me to do something outside my comfort zone. When I moved from being a nonprofit director to being a professor. That was a yes. Like can you be a professor? I was like yes I will do that. And that was... There was a learning curve that was steep but then I feel like when a moment presents itself if you step to it all things will shake out. And that was a powerful lesson because then as I go into new areas now I remember that. That you know when you're on the edge of the cliff sometimes I'm very afraid. And I remind myself jump anyway. You're going to be fine.

Passionistas: [00:25:11] What did your mother teach you about women's roles in society when you were growing up?

Susan X Jane: [00:25:16] My mother is an amazing woman. She's very kind. She is kind of that mother that you think of you know. Like she has a great smile and she has great holidays stuff. And she does all those traditions and great things. And there also is this little element of her that is very subversive. And the older I got the more I would connect to that side of her. And I love that she taught me that you can both be a kind person and show up in ways that are really positive and optimistic and also challenge and push and want to create other kinds of spaces. So they are there are different kinds of thinkers, my parents. And so I think she taught me to subvert with a smile.

Passionistas: [00:26:10] Do you have any other influential female role models while you were growing up?

Susan X Jane: [00:26:15] I would have to say my mother was my my most important role model but I was an avid reader. So all of the characters of classic literature were all of my role models. And that was really exciting. So I love to escape into books to find women who did amazing and wonderful things or took on daring feats. And I think that that was really important for me. I was able to connect to women of all sorts of different cultures and that really opened up whole worlds for me. So all of the women of classic literature were really big fave's of mine for sure.

Passionistas: [00:26:58] Are there any specific literary characters or real life pop culture female icons that stick out to you?

Susan X Jane: [00:27:05] I really love Bell Hooks. I think that she's been saying some amazing stuff for a very long period of time. And I really like that.

Ava. Ava. Ava. Ava DuVernay. She's just transforming media in a way that I think is going to last for many, many decades. It's not just that she's making amazing work, which she is, but that she is opening the door for amazing women who are doing amazing work. And she's doing that and she's really challenging the industry in terms of saying look I can do this. This is doable. The whole history of the industry saying well we can't change this is just the way it is. She's really changing all of that. So I would have to say right now she is my super super super hero. And I think that everything she touches helps to really widen out the narrative for women and for women of color. So for sure her.

Passionistas: [00:28:04] Have you had professional mentors in your career?

Susan X Jane: [00:28:07] I have been really blessed to have female bosses and female bosses of color. And I think that that made an amazing difference for me. It meant that I had a boss that trusted me to take things on and to take on big challenges. So that was really transformative. When I worked at the YWCA, Deb Dickerson just transformed who I was. And it really was by just believing in me and being there for me when I succeeded. Watching me fail. You know I'd say I'm going to go do this crazy thing. And she would always just chuckle. "Ok I'll see you when you get back." And when I get back going, "I didn't work." She'd be like OK well let's talk it through." And I think that she gave me the room to find that space that I was talking about. That space that I was looking for. Where does this do... Where does what I do live? She created a home for me that I was able to take once that work there was done and now that I carry with me. So Deb Dickerson was definitely my mentor. Big time.

Passionistas: [00:29:11] Is there a question that we as interviewers or we as a society aren't asking about diversity that we should be asking?

Susan X Jane: [00:29:21] I think that we need to let go of the idea that we know what it is that we know what it's been and be open to the idea that something different is happening. When we look at race it has not always existed. It is a relatively modern invention. Race, as we know it, did not exist before 1500. And race, in the way that it operates in America, was really a part of the trafficking of people from Africa. It was a way of structuring power that was going to create the labor force needed to build you know these colonized spaces.

And when we think about race from that standpoint we understand that it is fundamentally a social structure used to kind of create these divisions. And that's very different from it being a personal thing about how we feel about people. No matter how we feel about different people, we can agree that we would like power to be structured equally. And I think that's a point where we can begin to do that work. And so I think the biggest thing to do is to let go of the idea that race is about you personally and how you feel. Because if all of us said tomorrow, "All Right we're all going to say that we're not going to be racist anymore and we're all going to treat people equally." Our policies and procedures and institutions are not designed to do that. And that's the work that we can all began on.

Passionistas: [00:30:55] What's your secret or rewarding life?

Susan X Jane: [00:30:58] Have fun. I think that my secret to a rewarding life is to live with intention and to work towards integrity. None of us are all good or all bad. And so just to be able to seek balance that allows you to live with a lot of forgiveness for yourself and also to not be so driven. And I think that to kind of live in that place where we're trying to balance who we are rather than you know to drive towards perfection I think is really important.

I believe that, this is kind of out there, but I believe in reincarnation. So I think that the goal in this life is to learn to go hard at your purpose and then get what you can get out of it. And so I am really busy learning all I can learn in this life. Because I think that's what I'm here for.

Passionistas: [00:31:51] Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Susan X Jane: [00:31:53] My best friend and I came up with this mantra when we're in school and it is my mantra. "Do everything. Never quit." So just go at it and just keep going at it.

Passionistas: [00:32:05] What's your definition of success?

Susan X Jane: [00:32:06] My definition of success is living in integrity with yourself and that means discovering kind of who you are and finding a harmony both within yourself and in your environment and with the people around you. You know you don't have to be perfect or better than anyone else or famous. You just have to be integrated. The parts of you that are different bring them into some sort of harmony. And that to me I think is success.

Passionistas: [00:32:32] What's your proudest career achievement so far?

Susan X Jane: [00:32:35] My proudest career achievement is every single student I've ever worked with. And seeing them out there shining and doing amazing things. They are poets. And they are educators. And they're teachers. And they're activists. And they give me so much life every single day. I don't have children of my own, but I have a thousand children that are out there changing the world. And that is totally, totally my blessing.

Passionistas: [00:33:02] What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to get into communications in this climate?

Susan X Jane: [00:33:07] Your voice matters. You matter. This space belongs to you. Don't let anybody tell you that it doesn't. And now is your time. The technology is changing and creating more and more space for people. Let's take that space up. Let's fill that space up with our voices and allow our voices to shift the cultural narrative. I would tell her, we need you. Don't be shy. Don't hold back. Do everything. Never quit.

Passionistas: [00:33:32] Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Susan X Jane. Visit her website smntks.com to read more of her insights on media race and pop culture. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

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Susan X Jane is a diversity educator, speaker and trainer.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harington. If you enjoy listening to the show please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going and you'll get rewards like buttons access to premium content and invites to Passionistas.

Project events. Today we're talking to Susan X Jane — a diversity educator speaker and trainer. Susan is a former professor and youth worker who now consults with organizations looking to make sense of our current cultural shift. So please welcome to the show Susan X Jane.

Susan X Jane: [00:00:35] Hi. Thank you for having me.

Passionistas: [00:00:38] Susan, what's the one thing you're most passionate about?

Susan X Jane: [00:00:41] Definitely diversity and inclusion. Really thinking about race. I care about all kinds of diversity and social justice. I think that we all have to get together. But my particular interest really lies around race and also the way that race is represented. How we talk about it. The stories that we tell about it and how those stories shape what we think race is and how we experience it.

Passionistas: [00:01:08] How does that translate into what you do for a living?

Susan X Jane: [00:01:11] It is kind of an odd niche thing to do for a living. So I think that I've always just kind of found places where people were interested in doing the work to really think about identity and to think about race. But I have to be honest it used to be like you're wandering in the wilderness and I was the only person it felt like that really cared a lot about this. There wasn't a lot of focus. I remember a lot of times going to people to try to say, "Hey it would really be great if you guys talked about race." And people saying, "Oh those issues are really done. We don't have to do that anymore."

But we all now know that we've got to talk about race. But still I find that it's a awkward and uncomfortable conversation. And it's such a kind of amorphous idea that I think people really are often intimidated by how to like touch it so teaching education. And now that everybody is really saying well, "What does this mean for me?" I think working with the organizations to step in and to bring my expertise to help answer that question.

Passionistas: [00:02:15] What inspired you to start to do this for a living?

Susan X Jane: [00:02:19] I always joke that I started doing race work when I was in utero. So before I was born. I am biracial and I'm also a trans racial adoptee. Which means that I am a person of color who was adopted by a white family. And this happened — I'm going to age myself here — but this happened in '69 and it was kind of like that NICHD right in between civil rights kind of like coming to some fruition and busing. So it was a moment kind of fraught with some racial tension and so because of the way adoption was I don't know what the story was. But I imagine there were probably some conversations about race involved in my adoption process. And certainly from my parents and those conversations about race were from the very beginning.

So I think that I have always been a person that has been standing on this kind of racial line in America. And so it's really been an interesting process. I grew up in an all white community and then I went to college and came out of the house and started thinking about this stuff and it really was very curious to me.

I think being free from having family that are centered in one side or another I really have pursued the idea of the concepts about race and what that means and how that is different for different people. So it's really been kind of a lifelong passion for me and I've just been blessed to be able to turn it into a professional passion as well.

Passionistas: [00:03:53] And you actually created a program at Wheelock College centered around this.

Susan X Jane: [00:03:59] Yeah, I was doing youth media work. And I was relatively new to youth media work when I started it. And I worked for the YWCA. And so they asked me how can we make youth media and racism and empowering women connect?

And so I really started to chase that question about how do the messages and the representation of race in our popular culture, and particularly in media, how do they shape our actual experiences and our reality. And so I connected with some people at Wheelock College when I was doing that work. They wanted to start a communications program. And that school had been focused really on thinking about change makers and students as as activists and agents of change. And so I was really lucky to be able to build a communication program that brought those things together.

Passionistas: [00:04:53] How have the issues surrounding race and media changed since you first developed the project?

Susan X Jane: [00:04:59] I think things are so different now than they used to be. I think that you know I think our history is very much a spiral. We kind of go through the same cycles but each time we go through it we've elevated a little bit. And like I said when I first started thinking about race and media it wasn't really a topic that I got any traction with. Nobody was really wanting to talk about it. We really had been thinking that we were kind of post racial. As you know when we got through with the Obama administration we were all crying. We thought that was it. And now I think people realize, "Oh this element that really is at the very foundation of America is still impeding our ability to become the kind of nation that we've always dreamed to be." I call it our better angels.

And so I think that now people are really interested in it. It's super exciting to see things like Oscars So White or the amount of representation on TV. Thinking about who is in the writers room. These are issues that I feel like I've taught about for a long time. And it's like Obama getting elected. I didn't ever think I would see this where we're like, "Hey who's in your writers room?" You know that is really exciting stuff. So I think that we're in a moment where a lot of things can change. But like a lot of change that's happening now we have to really be very vigilant to make sure that we actually turn a corner. So it's an exciting time for sure.

Passionistas: [00:06:28] How do we turn that corner?

Susan X Jane: [00:06:30] I think that having better conversations about race is a couple of things. One we have to actually get clear about race. I think if you asked 100 people what race is they would have wildly different ideas about it. Because some people experience it very much on the individual level. Other people are really struggling with structural oppression and racism. And so there's a lot of misunderstanding about how those things connect and what they actually are. So the first thing is that we have to have some clear conversation so we all know what we're talking about. But I really think that what we're seeing now just this long term shift over the last five years, ten years where we're seeing different representation. Where we're seeing different voices fill up all these channels that technology is giving us. I think that makes a huge difference. I think that social media and the Internet has the ability to be really democratizing but that we have to really be able to leverage it and so that means getting great voices like you ladies out there and getting people hearing about it. And having us talk about things like, "What does it mean to be an empowered woman?" That doesn't that wasn't a story that we were hearing 10 or 20 or 30 years ago you know. And so that work brick by brick I think is how we move forward.

Passionistas: [00:07:50] I'm encouraged to hear how optimistic you are in this conversation. But how do we deal with the fact that it's now OK for people to kind of say these things that maybe they weren't saying for a long time?

Susan X Jane: [00:08:03] Well the thing is they were always saying them they just maybe weren't saying them in public. And so I think again technology and the shifts in media have really changed the way that conversations and it was really just changed where that conversation it's not behind closed doors. It's out in public.

I like to say that I'm totally unreasonably optimistic. All of the data points to... We're really in a dark corner. And I have my days where I really have to sit and say, "Wow this is really, really bad." Even with the recent election we get so excited we see all this change and then it's like it is a brick by brick process. So it is really difficult. But what makes me optimistic is that we are moving towards something that is inevitable. We are rapidly becoming a majority minority country. For a young people that are under 18, we are already a majority minority country. So millennials really live in a world that is multicultural already.

Our planet is getting smaller and I think unfortunately with climate change that will continue to happen. We're kind of at this point where I'm not alone anymore in thinking these things. And even though it's really hard for people to think about and to experience like we're all thinking about it together. And that's super exciting. I think that that's how change happens.

I'll tell you a short story if I can. In Massachusetts we had Question 3 where we were talking about the rights of trans people. And I had a conversation with my mother who is a white woman, and an older white woman, myself, a person of color, and my young niece who is a queer identifying young woman. And so the three of us had a really hard conversation about what does it mean. And my mother asking questions like, "I don't understand this and this isn't the way it used to be." And rather than us getting into the fight that we always in our discourse we just sat with the heaviness. And we talked it through and she decided to vote yes.

And I think, sorry. It was very emotional because I think for Ciba to see your grandmother sees you as you are was incredibly powerful. And that's the hard work is getting into those conversations with the people that we care about and making that change.

It is intense because it's very personal work. But in the end it when you make it personal it's like can you see me. And that's what makes it intense and personal and also powerful. And I think, on an individual level, people can feel each other. They can see each other across those lines. And I think the challenge is getting people to move away from ideas that they've had.

I work a lot with young people and young people always say, "Well when old people die off those ideas will go away." And they won't. When we look at Charlottesville those were young people with torches. The thing is that people have to have a space to ask those questions. Why is it this way? Why would somebody propose a law that would restrict somebody else's rights? And rather than attacking them, that's a real question. And the information was not always available to people. When my mother went to school they didn't talk about these issues. They didn't... She said to me we didn't have these issues. And I think for her was really validating to hear. Yes, something new is happening and we want you to be a part of it.

And she asked from a place of really wanting to be a part of it. She's very much an independent minded person. And so it was about seeking information. But when I said to her it really comes down to us and look at me I am a person of color. What would you want for me? And instantly she said, "I see it clearly." You know and so that's what we have to do is to have those hard conversations across the boundaries. Not equal conversations. I think a lot of times we get into this fairness bias where they say well one side says this. So we have to hear what the other side says. And I say you know we're kind of in a place where there are two sides. You are either for justice for everybody or you are not.

And I don't see a middle ground that we really need to cover in there. That's going to move us forward. There may be two sides but if we really want to be able to move forward in a way that is humane and liberatory that's it. And the question is simple. You know like with my mother when I said to her, "What is it about discrimination or you that you know are you for it or against it?" And instantly all of the arguments fell away and she was able to clearly see that it is a simple question. And I think it's a simple question a lot of the time.

Passionistas: [00:12:52] Talk a little bit about the consulting work you do with organizations during this cultural shift.

Susan X Jane: [00:12:58] This is exciting because this is some new stuff that I've been doing in the last couple of years. As people are starting to realize that we are in this shifting culture and that demographics of race, around gender, thinking about how millennials think and approach work. Organizations are saying, "I'm not really sure how we get through this or even how to think about these things." And I think that makes sense. A lot of what we're seeing is actual real change. There are new ways of thinking about it. There are new ways of reacting to it. And organizations really need to bring in sometimes the capacity to do that work and to help walk them through a process that will give them a plan that they can execute on to really make their organizations more inclusive.

Passionistas: [00:13:48] What kinds of companies are you finding that are doing this?

Susan X Jane: [00:13:52] I think that there is a lot of diversity work happening across all the sectors which is really exciting. I think a lot of organizations that are larger and are able to are bringing in diversity officers. So there was no CDO you know 10 or 20 years ago and now many major organizations have them. A lot of smaller organizations sometimes have difficulty having the capacity to have someone in-house. So I like to work with organizations that maybe are smaller or mid-range organizations that really want to grow their ability in this area. And they just want to get some some expertise and some guidance and some technical assistance making that happen. And I particularly am interested in the non-profit and higher-ed space. That's where I've been. And I think even though we are sectors that are really concerned about making the world better, we still have to have those clear conversations and plans to make it happen.

Passionistas: [00:14:47] So how do you approach your work with these organizations? What kinds of things do you do?

Susan X Jane: [00:14:52] The first thing is to kind of work with an organization to name what's happening. We all have this sense that something is happening and I think that it is rare for organizations to say, "Let's create the space and the time to actually name what is happening. To look at the shifts. To kind of look at some of the data." Because once you see where some of the data is trending it makes it a lot easier for organizations to make this a priority.

Being attentive to diversity isn't an add on anymore. If 51 percent of the country is women and more than 40 percent of the country is minorities. If you're not doing work that is inclusive, you're leaving a lot of people out of your tent. And so the first thing is to really name what's going on to talk about some of the changes. Our understanding about race — scientifically, culturally, sociologically — that's all been changing. And so I think it's important for them to start there.

And for me personally, I think something that's important that really comes from my background and my upbringing is rather than taking a binary approach — like you're either for it or against it — is for each person to say, "Where am I in the process? And how do I do my work to move forward?" We're not going to end racism this week. We're not going to end racism this year.

And so I think planning for the long haul means each person needs to kind of look at what's happening and then dig into, 'What's my role in it?" And for organizations that also means what are the things that we can do organizationally and what the teams have to do?

Hiring is really important, but H.R. can't be the only department where people are thinking about diversity. You need people thinking about it and every single team and we know from lots of studies that inclusive environments are more productive environments. They're happier environments. They are more successful and they're more profitable. And so for organizations they really need to think about how do all of my teams leverage diversity and inclusion to make them work that they do more satisfying and more successful in terms of their goals?

Passionistas: [00:17:05] We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and you're listening to the Passionistas Project podcast and our interview with Susan X Jane. Visit our website smntks.com To read more of her insights on media race and pop culture. And now here's more of our interview with Susan.

Passionistas: [00:17:22] Can you tell people a little bit about your website?

Susan X Jane: [00:17:25] I've been blogging at my web web site semantics for a few years now for about four years now. And I try to just take a look at what's going on out there and talk a lot about that intersection of race and culture and media. And thinking about how the messages that we're getting are affecting us and are affecting the way that we see the world. And I unfortunately write about Kanye West too much. But I try to look at what's happening in pop culture around race. It used to be a lot easier when I started writing four years ago. Now I feel like there's a new story every couple of minutes and I think that means that we're moving forward. We're all in this conversation now and it is also really tiring.

But I love to write. I love to connect with people and talk about what it is that I see and hear back from people what they're thinking. I think that more than anything culture is this process that we move through together. So writing about it gives me a chance to really kind of step into that process with readers and go through it together.

Passionistas: [00:18:31] You mentioned a little while ago, there are days where you feel sort of defeated. How do you continue? How do you get back on your feet and move forward?

Susan X Jane: [00:18:39] It's challenging I think there's a lot of talk about self-care out there which has lots of really great ideas about what you can do to take care of yourself. But I think that understanding it as a lifelong process and accepting that that's what it is really important.

I've been thinking about culture like I said my whole life and it is exhausting. So sometimes I unplug. I like to be creative. So I go and craft or paint or walk my dog. I think nature is a great antidote. When we connect and see the processes of nature that are around us, it reminds us that this too shall pass.

Sometimes I will go buy a home improvement projects tool and do something I don't know how to do. Like put a door on or you know shingles. I did not do well with shingles. So I try to push myself outside of my comfort zone and I think interacting with the material world and recognizing that for all the conversation for all the intensity of our discourse that the physical world still exists. And that we can go out and hug people and look at the sky and exchange connection. And that that world is the most important world. And that that world is still out there and that's what we're doing it all for anyways.

Passionistas: [00:19:59] Is there a lesson that you've learned so far in your career that you've kind of carried with you throughout it?

Susan X Jane: [00:20:06] You have to orient yourself in a place of deep empathy to do the work. When we talk about racism or sexism or classism what we're really looking at is division. Ways that we divide up the massive amount of humans on this planet. And the purpose of that division is allocation of resources — time, power, money. That's really the bottom line underneath it all. And so when we are done arguing with who's done what to whom, the question really is who's holding power and who is really in need of power? And so I think that that for me is the thread that runs through all of it. And that I think is the thing that allows you to tap into that empathy.

When We get into a hard issue like the conversation with my mother around thinking about trans rights. When I asked her to think about you know who has power here? It seemed much clearer to her than listening to all of the rhetoric that goes around. I think we have a lot of rhetoric in our community. But when you orient yourself in your empathy, you are most able to do this work.

And that means thinking carefully about why do people disagree? And to not think people are stupid or crazy or ignorant, but to realize that people have very valid points of view that are different. And we need to help them free themselves from these layers of social structure to be able to see deeply their own humanity and to connect to their own compassion and empathy.

It's easy to do the work when you are looking at people that agree with you. It's very hard to sit and to say to someone, "I love you enough to want to walk you back to a place where we are connected, even though you are telling me you hate me." People that are full of hate are not in integrity with themselves. And that is where I get my empathy from. That I'm not angry at you. I see what is out of integrity with your greatest possibilities and that allows me to want the best for you.

Passionistas: [00:22:23] What's been your biggest professional challenge and however you overcome it?

Susan X Jane: [00:22:27] I think the biggest challenge for me is that I am doing something that kind of lives outside of a really defined space. I mean now there's a lot of space to talk about diversity and inclusion, but it hasn't always been this way. So I think my biggest professional challenge is really finding where is the place where what I do lives. Somebody asked me that question, "Where does what you do live?"

That's such a good question and that's the challenge for me is finding what's happening now that will put me in a place where I can really you know kind of use my skills to move things forward for the next five years, for the next 10 years, so I can really dig into scale and a way of being and do good work in that area. So finding my space and trusting my voice I think that's very much for a lot of women and women of color. You're trained to like be quiet. Don't be crazy and just trusting my voice if I had anything to say to my 13-year-old self. It would be like screaming from the rooftops, "Girl right!"

Passionistas: [00:23:31] What's the most rewarding part of your career?

Susan X Jane: [00:23:34] I feel a deep sense of purpose with what I do. And I feel like that's incredibly rewarding. You know to be able to see people open up to their own possibilities is such a gift. And to have people say like, "Oh you helped me do that." The payoff for that is enormous and huge. And so it always makes me feel like each day I can wake up and say, "Oh yeah like I feel really gratified and really fulfilled in pursuing like a deep lifelong purpose." And that is such a gift.

Passionistas: [00:24:05] Looking back on your path so far is there one decision that you look at that you consider the most courageous thing that you did that sort of changed your trajectory?

Passionistas: [00:24:15] I say yes. When I don't want to sometimes. And I think that there have been a number of times that people have said, "Oh you know can you do x." And I think and then I just yes. I can do that.

And so there are a couple of times that I've stepped out on a yes that really pushed me to do something outside my comfort zone. When I moved from being a nonprofit director to being a professor. That was a yes. Like can you be a professor? I was like yes I will do that. And that was... There was a learning curve that was steep but then I feel like when a moment presents itself if you step to it all things will shake out. And that was a powerful lesson because then as I go into new areas now I remember that. That you know when you're on the edge of the cliff sometimes I'm very afraid. And I remind myself jump anyway. You're going to be fine.

Passionistas: [00:25:11] What did your mother teach you about women's roles in society when you were growing up?

Susan X Jane: [00:25:16] My mother is an amazing woman. She's very kind. She is kind of that mother that you think of you know. Like she has a great smile and she has great holidays stuff. And she does all those traditions and great things. And there also is this little element of her that is very subversive. And the older I got the more I would connect to that side of her. And I love that she taught me that you can both be a kind person and show up in ways that are really positive and optimistic and also challenge and push and want to create other kinds of spaces. So they are there are different kinds of thinkers, my parents. And so I think she taught me to subvert with a smile.

Passionistas: [00:26:10] Do you have any other influential female role models while you were growing up?

Susan X Jane: [00:26:15] I would have to say my mother was my my most important role model but I was an avid reader. So all of the characters of classic literature were all of my role models. And that was really exciting. So I love to escape into books to find women who did amazing and wonderful things or took on daring feats. And I think that that was really important for me. I was able to connect to women of all sorts of different cultures and that really opened up whole worlds for me. So all of the women of classic literature were really big fave's of mine for sure.

Passionistas: [00:26:58] Are there any specific literary characters or real life pop culture female icons that stick out to you?

Susan X Jane: [00:27:05] I really love Bell Hooks. I think that she's been saying some amazing stuff for a very long period of time. And I really like that.

Ava. Ava. Ava. Ava DuVernay. She's just transforming media in a way that I think is going to last for many, many decades. It's not just that she's making amazing work, which she is, but that she is opening the door for amazing women who are doing amazing work. And she's doing that and she's really challenging the industry in terms of saying look I can do this. This is doable. The whole history of the industry saying well we can't change this is just the way it is. She's really changing all of that. So I would have to say right now she is my super super super hero. And I think that everything she touches helps to really widen out the narrative for women and for women of color. So for sure her.

Passionistas: [00:28:04] Have you had professional mentors in your career?

Susan X Jane: [00:28:07] I have been really blessed to have female bosses and female bosses of color. And I think that that made an amazing difference for me. It meant that I had a boss that trusted me to take things on and to take on big challenges. So that was really transformative. When I worked at the YWCA, Deb Dickerson just transformed who I was. And it really was by just believing in me and being there for me when I succeeded. Watching me fail. You know I'd say I'm going to go do this crazy thing. And she would always just chuckle. "Ok I'll see you when you get back." And when I get back going, "I didn't work." She'd be like OK well let's talk it through." And I think that she gave me the room to find that space that I was talking about. That space that I was looking for. Where does this do... Where does what I do live? She created a home for me that I was able to take once that work there was done and now that I carry with me. So Deb Dickerson was definitely my mentor. Big time.

Passionistas: [00:29:11] Is there a question that we as interviewers or we as a society aren't asking about diversity that we should be asking?

Susan X Jane: [00:29:21] I think that we need to let go of the idea that we know what it is that we know what it's been and be open to the idea that something different is happening. When we look at race it has not always existed. It is a relatively modern invention. Race, as we know it, did not exist before 1500. And race, in the way that it operates in America, was really a part of the trafficking of people from Africa. It was a way of structuring power that was going to create the labor force needed to build you know these colonized spaces.

And when we think about race from that standpoint we understand that it is fundamentally a social structure used to kind of create these divisions. And that's very different from it being a personal thing about how we feel about people. No matter how we feel about different people, we can agree that we would like power to be structured equally. And I think that's a point where we can begin to do that work. And so I think the biggest thing to do is to let go of the idea that race is about you personally and how you feel. Because if all of us said tomorrow, "All Right we're all going to say that we're not going to be racist anymore and we're all going to treat people equally." Our policies and procedures and institutions are not designed to do that. And that's the work that we can all began on.

Passionistas: [00:30:55] What's your secret or rewarding life?

Susan X Jane: [00:30:58] Have fun. I think that my secret to a rewarding life is to live with intention and to work towards integrity. None of us are all good or all bad. And so just to be able to seek balance that allows you to live with a lot of forgiveness for yourself and also to not be so driven. And I think that to kind of live in that place where we're trying to balance who we are rather than you know to drive towards perfection I think is really important.

I believe that, this is kind of out there, but I believe in reincarnation. So I think that the goal in this life is to learn to go hard at your purpose and then get what you can get out of it. And so I am really busy learning all I can learn in this life. Because I think that's what I'm here for.

Passionistas: [00:31:51] Do you have a mantra that you live by?

Susan X Jane: [00:31:53] My best friend and I came up with this mantra when we're in school and it is my mantra. "Do everything. Never quit." So just go at it and just keep going at it.

Passionistas: [00:32:05] What's your definition of success?

Susan X Jane: [00:32:06] My definition of success is living in integrity with yourself and that means discovering kind of who you are and finding a harmony both within yourself and in your environment and with the people around you. You know you don't have to be perfect or better than anyone else or famous. You just have to be integrated. The parts of you that are different bring them into some sort of harmony. And that to me I think is success.

Passionistas: [00:32:32] What's your proudest career achievement so far?

Susan X Jane: [00:32:35] My proudest career achievement is every single student I've ever worked with. And seeing them out there shining and doing amazing things. They are poets. And they are educators. And they're teachers. And they're activists. And they give me so much life every single day. I don't have children of my own, but I have a thousand children that are out there changing the world. And that is totally, totally my blessing.

Passionistas: [00:33:02] What advice would you give to a young woman who wants to get into communications in this climate?

Susan X Jane: [00:33:07] Your voice matters. You matter. This space belongs to you. Don't let anybody tell you that it doesn't. And now is your time. The technology is changing and creating more and more space for people. Let's take that space up. Let's fill that space up with our voices and allow our voices to shift the cultural narrative. I would tell her, we need you. Don't be shy. Don't hold back. Do everything. Never quit.

Passionistas: [00:33:32] Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Susan X Jane. Visit her website smntks.com to read more of her insights on media race and pop culture. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast, so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

Erin Penner, is the founder of the an outdoor, exploration-based preschool, ILA — Inspired Little Activists. She is also an elected official on the Hollywood United Neighborhood Council and an advocate for the LGBT community and the unhoused population in Los Angeles.

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Learn more about ILAAdventureSchool.org.

Learn more about The Passionistas Project.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Passionistas: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to the Passionistas Project Podcast. We're Amy and Nancy Harrington and if you enjoy listening to the show please consider becoming a patron. Just a small donation of one dollar a month can help us keep the project going. And you'll get rewards — like buttons, access to premium content and invites to Passionistas Project events.

Today we're talking to Erin Penner — the founder of an outdoor, exploration-based school ILA, which stands for Inspired Little Activists. Erin is also an elected official on the Hollywood United Neighborhood Council and she's an advocate for the LGBT community and the unhoused population in Los Angeles.

So please welcome to the show. Erin Penner.

Passionistas: What are you most passionate about.

Erin Penner: [00:00:40] I'm most passionate about giving a voice to people that aren't being heard. And giving them a platform to really say what they need and speak what's on their mind and whether it's working with the homeless or with children it's just giving them a voice.

Passionistas: [00:00:55] So how does that translate into what you do for a living?

Erin Penner: [00:00:59] I started my own nonprofit organization that teaches kids how to take ownership of L.A. So they clean Griffith Park and they clean the beach and they feed the homeless and they're on the metro twice a month and they go all over the city and they really are advocates for the city and for people in need and for themselves. So gives them quite a voice. 

Passionistas: [00:01:21] Talk a little bit about your path to starting the preschool.

Erin Penner: [00:01:24] When I came here 12 years ago I had my teaching degree from Wheelock College in Boston. And back then I mean you could get... You could work in TV without even thinking about it. The jobs were like a dime a dozen. So I jumped into TV but also nannied to because my passion was working with kids. So I was Nannying for quite some time. And one of the children's preschool teachers grabbed me and she had her own school out here in L.A. that she had started. And I was working one on one with her for years and she branched out and the school moved to Griffith Park and became entirely outside. But she had a child two years ago and I kind of took it over rebranded it and added my own little flair to it. And that's where I am now.

Passionistas: [00:02:13] And what's the flair that you added?

Erin Penner: [00:02:15] I made it very much an activism school and it's actually called Inspired Little Activists. And what she was doing is very nature driven and this still is. But nature's not necessarily my passion. I enjoy being outside very much but I'm not really put your hiking boots on every single day kind of person even though we do do that. But I added my own let's grab a backpack get on the metro and go meet Mayor Garcetti and stuff like that. So it's kind of both.

Passionistas: [00:02:47] So give us examples of some other kinds of things you do.

Erin Penner: [00:02:50] We constantly learn about leaders, world leaders, leaders in the community, whether it's just someone in town or Billie Jean King or stuff like that. But we also have... It's really important to me that they know their community and you can teach their own parents about their communities. So the fire department will stop by and police will stop by my friends and nurse. He'll stop by and it's just very much just being a part of the world they live in. So we do that. They constantly have visitors and then like this week it's Day the Dead, so we're going to an art gallery downtown — Self Help Graphics it's called. They'll learn Native American art and Mexican art and stuff like that. So it's really like any holiday, like LGBT rights is all this month. So they learn about that and just kind of really weave in everything that's going on. And not, not be so depressing about what's happening in the country but really not lying to them about anything and making them aware and just being positive how to change that.

Passionistas: [00:03:50] Do you feel like kids that age are underestimated in what they're capable of grasping?

Erin Penner: [00:03:55] 100 percent. And I talk about it all the time. I talk about it like a specific behavior like LGBT rights and stuff. We underestimate how much they can handle how much they want to learn. And we can put a stigma on stuff. So it's like you know you almost some people whisper when they say the word gay and it's like, no some of them have two moms and two dads and why is that something that we've been whispers. So we talk about that stuff and then they learn about Harvey Milk and they know that love is love. And it doesn't matter. And they teach their family about it. And the family is like oh my god it would have been so scared to even touch this topic. Which is crazy. So we definitely underestimate what kids can handle.

Passionistas: [00:04:38] So what do the parents know going into it when they sign their kids up? What do they expect?

Erin Penner: [00:04:43] It's not hard when you first need to know that I'm not someone that will kind of tiptoe around things but that to people like. Actually when I was a nannying one of the dads called me "nanny leather pants." Because it's kinda like... I will, I have a rule in school that we do a happy hour once a month with all the parents. So it has to be a tight knit community. But they'll also know my sailor mouth and what I'm passionate about outside of school and it's really important. So when I interviewed families for school I mean that's out in the open right away. And you know... I mean eventually I'll be covered in tattoos and I want to tell them because they'll know when they look at me and that's just how it goes.

Passionistas: [00:05:26] What do you think the kids get from learning outside of a classroom? Why is it so important to be in the world?

Erin Penner: [00:05:33] One thing that people are always shocked by especially when we go on our field trips says not only are they capable of taking on the world themselves I mean they're on the Metro at three years old just carrying all their stuff and they know the map and they know which line we go and everything. And what it teaches people just by watching them is you know how capable they are. So being outside of just four walls, I mean you're teaching them how to you even if there was an emergency. They know exactly who to go to what to do. One thing we do is they're exposed to like the homeless. And it's, that's a tricky part because you don't want them to think OK I can just talk to any stranger, which I have to talk to the parents about a lot but, they're human and so just being outside a classroom they learn so much in that regard. And they know the names of... they know Paul is one guy that sits at a park near us and we ask how his day is going and... I mean I think all of it teaches the adults just as much as.

Passionistas: [00:06:39] How do they go to traditional schools after being with you?

Erin Penner: [00:06:42] It's kind of a worry. I have and I did come up this year one of my girls who I mean I always said that they are my best friends and they are five. And it was hard. She had to adjust... It was like two months of adjusting. Where she was just like this is not where I want to be. So she, I would actually have a date with her every week to take her out. And we's go to the deli and eat prosciutto after school and stuff because she was just... It was impossible for her to be with 30 kids rather than seven and to be in this crowded classroom with a teacher that is just strictly a teacher and that's it. Because I'm more... I mean their family and they have a bad day they FaceTime me and we go out all the time and it is tricky. I worry about the adjustment but so far it's been pretty good.

Passionistas: [00:07:30] So you talked a little bit about your work with the homeless. But tell us about that and why that's important to you and what you do for outreach.

Erin Penner: [00:07:38] I grew up in my family's Italian restaurant on Cape Cod. And I was always the little kid that was just addicted to talking to people and especially if like you're sitting at a table alone I would just pull up a chair and hang out or what have you. But for some reason like my mission as a little kid was to make someone's day. And my dad always talks about it too. It's like I could make a note and just leave it with like a cookie or... Like when it was his birthday one year I just assembled a grill and had it in the front yard and he rolled up in his pickup truck and there was this grill and he was just so excited and crying. And it was just like instantly I realized just making someone's day is the best thing ever.

[00:08:21] So when I turned 16 or 17, I got my license and I got a red Mustang. And I realized I could go to a homeless shelter and on Cape Cod. There's one homeless shelter. You don't even know what exists. And that waswhen I mean you had the Yellow Pages and I was digging and I was like I know there's some place around here. And I finally figured it out. It was only two towns away. And I called them they said can I bring you food. And they were like, yeah no one's really ever asked that before. So I went to a store and I made them to lasagnas. So here comes like this chick in a red car that pulls up at 17. And this whole... this linw of people just staring at me and I carried in two lasagna. Its was like this is the best thing anywhere I can help these people.

[00:09:09] So from there I went to college in Boston and you can do an internship and I just wanted to be at a homeless shelter. So I worked at Rosie's Place, which is for women dealing with domestic abuse and stuff and I end up writing basically a thesis about this woman there and my passion for the homeless just really grew and giving a voice to them at that point. Because there is one day where we had to serve lunch. And it was Valentine's Day and I brought them a bunch of candies and stuff and they even took the plastic bag that the candies were. I said gosh why are they even taking a plastic bag? And it was just they needed anything. And we had a soda fountain and I would watch the women and they would take a few sips of soda and just dump. And I was like ow dare they? Like there in such a need. And we have so many people that are in such need. And the guy in charge that I would like listen to Van Halen with during lunch. He was like don't you see how spoiling yourself is something that we take for granted. And this is the one minute that they get to spoil themselves and be wasteful like we are every day. Wow that's crazy. And that has stuck with me forever.

[00:10:23] So once I had left Boston and came here I didn't have a job for a while and all I did was volunteer in the homeless shelters. And from there I just started a nonprofit.

Passionistas: [00:10:33] So what is your nonprofit do?

Erin Penner: [00:10:35] It's called Vibe's 365. I started it with my partner Robin who is now my teaching partner with ILA. And that was to do this with kids. So essentially we started with summer camps and workshops and they went really well. But it was... Summer camps a lot of work and that's a lot of caring your whole life and all of this that you are teaching to the beach to do a beach cleanup and stuff. And it's great. And I love it. But I ended up scaling it down a tiny bit. So for instance right now I volunteer at the center in Hollywood and it's basically an art class that we do. It's a women's day. So I was teaching art for the past two years to homeless women. And so my kids, I was approved by the board at the center. They're pen pals are the women. So it's kind of like my nonprofit is me teaching a homeless woman art but it's also my school kids being pen pals. And I mean they make each other jewelry and make cards. And it's all I do is kind of intertwine everything.

Passionistas: [00:11:37] Talk about that pen program and how that works and what people who participate get out of it.

Erin Penner: [00:11:43] It's funny because so many things I already like have a preconceived notion of what, what people will get out of it. But it ends up being the opposite of what I think. So the whole time I'm thinking, wow it'll be amazing for these kids to be in touch with these women and kind of find out what their day is like. But what I learned on the first day is these women would just start crying when they got a letter because it's like when was the last time they got a card? And they could be estranged from their kids that they missed so badly. And it's like no one's ever asked them how they're doing and drawn them a picture. So it was, it was so sweet and innocent because these women would be like I have a dog and what's your dog's name? Or just something so simple like that and it sounds so elementary. But it was such a game changer. Was just like someone is reaching out to me whether I even know what they look like or not but it made them human again.

Passionistas: [00:12:40] How can other people do what you do?

Erin Penner: [00:12:43] I think people underestimate when it comes to kids what kids are noticing that you do. And say you're driving in your car and your kids in your backseat and you just kind of drive by some guy Hollywood and Highland desperately needs food or something. And you don't even give them the time of day. Just by showing them a hello and this is let's even find out what their name is. It really sticks in kids heads. But one thing I've learned...

[00:13:16] I actually had a homeless couple that are very close friends of mine live with me here for a month because we met on Hollywood Boulevard two and a half, three years ago. I was on a date and walking back and this couple was on the sidewalk in sleeping bags. And I stopped and talked to them and gave them cookies that I had in my hand. And asked them if they would contact me because I really wanted to help them. And I begged them. Can you get to the library, get on a computer? Because people forget even just to... They might not have a phone. They might not have computer access, and what have you. And they did a few days later and he put in his e-mail Cookie Man. And I figured it was cause I had given them cookies. But what it was is, it was a couple that had their own cookie business that tanked. And so my girlfriend was like You know I know you hate Go Fund Me because it's kind of like my last resort. I don't like overusing crowd funding and stuff like that. She was like you need to just do it. And it was Thanksgiving week and this is three years ago actually next month. And we raised two thousand dollars in 24 hours.

[00:14:21] So I find out that they lived outside of MacArthur Park. So for a week I was going to have dinner with them in a park and they would joke and say come into our living room. And it was just a box on the ground and it hit me one night I came home and I was... I'll never forget, I was sitting in bed and I was like How dare I? Because now these are my good friends. And I'm sitting in my bed knowing that they're sleeping on a box in MacArthur Park. So I grab the next day and put them in my car. And they lived here.

[00:14:52] And what... Their story, they were fine with me making it public... Even within that week or two had taught so many people how to really treat people nicely and with an open heart and kindness that everyone was paying attention to our updates every day. So we got an iPad donated. We got their website back up and running. And then by Christmas time all my family on the East Coast and all my friends were ordering. This had turn into the cookie factory. And they even have a cookie box that they designed with my old logo, on my face on it and stuff. But I mean they had like 20 different flavors and the orders were just coming in. It was crazy. TV production companies my friends worked for it order all these cookies. So it is just like reviving them and giving them a voice and giving them a face. And they became family instantly. So it's like we spend all our holidays together and my family sends him Christmas presents. And it just that, taught people so much. And right now they're going through a lot. And the wife this week realized she has colon cancer but they... all of my friends are friends with them on social media. And they instantly had their back. And they were like oh my gosh, what can we do? And it's just, it's created a family. Just from that.

Passionistas: [00:16:12] We're Amy and Nancy Harrington. And you're listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Erin Penner. To find out more about ILA visit. ILAAdventureSchool.org. Now here's more of our conversation with Erin.

Passionistas: [00:16:26] So tell us about the award that you got from the center.

Erin Penner: [00:16:28] The center is an amazing place. And it's... It's basically, it's not a homeless shelter, it's just a resource center and basically for Unhoused... we like to say not homeless, unhoused friends of ours. And they surprised me with an award for volunteering there.

[00:16:46] I had this idea that I wanted to make the women's day and give them a makeover. So Robin being a hairstylist, she was like let's get this shit done and we are just changing their lives. So we had three or four hairstylists, four wardrobe people and some of them like professional wardrobe people. I hired a photographer to do their portraits. We have food and... It was hair and makeup, food. Yeah just a ton of clothes. We had hundreds of pounds of clothes donated. So this center let me use them as this just hub for all of this. So this one day we set up the whole downstairs as a clothing store. And really doted on the women. And it was just like coffee and breakfast and all this stuff. And then upstairs Robin had turned it into a buzzing hair salon and they got toiletry bags and jewelry and sunglasses donated and stuff like that. And then their portrait done. So they could see how beautiful they were. And we had 30 or 40 women that first, first one. And we did our second one this year. And I I'd like to do them way more often and eventually in my own office and hub to do this. But that's where I started the center and then we just made it this constant thing for the women. I never realized how underserved the women are in the community and the stuff they go through and the danger they are in every night in a sleeping bag or a tent. It's just that they have changed my life forever, for sure.

Passionistas: [00:18:18] What do you think that people should know about those women? Because a lot of people don't take the time to stop.

Erin Penner: [00:18:26] What we do at the center at all of the outreach stays. Friday is women's day. And we get them in there for breakfast and to do like... I do arts and crafts with them and stuff. But really it's kind of a way just to get them in. We hear how their week was. And you can let it kind of depress you or just let it motivate. Like oh my god I got to, I gotta fixed this. And thank god that neighborhood council it kind of helped me realize that's... How to give them a voice and go to City Hall. Like to know what these women have gone through this week? And I think what people don't realize is just... It's going to sound crazy but I mean just going to the bathroom when you wake up in the morning.

[00:19:04] And I had one friend Sarah, we had the same birthday actually. And she has been going there for a while. She's so sweet and the pen pal with the kids like really affected her. Because she raised her sister from seven years old. Sarah was seven and took care of her sister. And she's had a crazy struggle. So there was one day where she woke up and she had to pee like we all do when we wake up. And she went to a restaurant and they instantly kicked her out. And she had gone into so many places and they kicked her out. Coffee shops kicked her out and she's... It's not like she's covered in dirt or anything like that which everyone thinks you're homeless really covered in mud or something. But no one would let her go the bathroom. And she peed her pants in the entryway in this restaurant. And she was there telling us this and it was humiliating for her. So like wow this is such an insane struggle I would never think about. If you were to pee outside then you're a sex offender. Because if you're even near a school or a park or whatever... And a lot of them are in parks, then they have to deal with that. So I think between the safety factor and sexual assault that they deal with a lot on the streets. Just even go to the bathroom is a crazy struggle.

Passionistas: [00:20:15] You also are a member of Hollywood United Neighborhood Council. So talk about what other work you do with them.

Erin Penner: [00:20:23] So actually Charles and Bridgett that lived here help me get elected. And they were throwing out flyers everywhere that day. And it was pretty amazing. So I've been on there for two years. And at the time I was the youngest person on the council. And now I'm the only female. I was part of the executive officers. I'm the secretary now. But it's, it's been a very funny situation because you realize some males just typically don't like females that are kind of getting shit done and doing stuff around the city. And it's, it's insane when I think about women in politics and what they're dealing with because I want such a ittle pian level but it's really affected me with crazy messages I get from people that are just like you know we're all going to have all the homeless pitch inside your apartment building because clearly you're not doing enough. And stuff like, crazy, crazy things but you can't let it get you discouraged.

[00:21:20] So I'm on four committees now — the outreach committee, on public safety, and homelessness and social services, and renters, and nonprofit education. Five. I just resigned from renters last week. But it's taught me a lot. It's taught me about.. talk about giving a voice... it's like you have people in the Hollywood Hills who think they're... What I view is something so small that's they're big problem and that's a problem that has to be addressed right away. And I'm like Are you kidding me? Do you know what's happening down here? But you have to come together. And my job is to not just speak about what's concerning me. I have to be a voice for all the neighbors even if it's something that pisses me off because if that's what's bothering them then that's my job. So it's taught me a lot to just let people criticize you and to kind of be an advocate for something you don't necessarily want to be but that's what you're elected for.

Erin Penner: [00:22:16] You're also an advocate for LGBT rights. So talk about your work in that area. 

Erin Penner: [00:22:22] Robin McWilliams and Madonna Cacciatore, the best Italian name ever, have made the biggest impact in my life in the past couple of years. And Robin makes a point to just drag me along to all of the LGBT events. And in the beginning I was like oh god they're going to look at me like who is this straight chick walking in here? But that's why she's so powerful and such a force because she's like this is my friend Erin. This is what she's doing. Not even mentioning that I'm not part technically part of the LGBT community which we all are. But it's kind of... that's what we talk about.

[00:23:02] I started going to all these events and it's just packed with powerful people that... it's just really mind blowing, the hurdles that they have on a daily basis that I don't have to think about that. And they're also getting so much done on top of that. So it is another way that I realized you know I need to be a voice for them as well. Because there's a lot of... there's so much stigma with that. People think you know if you're part of the LGBT community you're just at a bar in WeHo and you're in drag or whatever. Like there's so many things that they're visualizing and that's not the case. And especially the transgender community we have a lot at the homeless center. And just there it's another daily struggle of stuff you don't think about. Like to not feel comfortable in their own skin and to not be accepted for what they want to be.

[00:23:51] It's taught me a lot. It's a big thing that I'm really appreciative of, but... I went to an event with Robin a month or two ago and one of her friends after talking to me for about an hour called me an impostor because she found out I was straight. And in a moment it was like jarring and I was pissed. But then it was like this is a moment I've been wanting because I want to know literally how I will respond in this situation. And it was pretty amazing because once I told her how we need each other's back and it doesn't matter who's on what team she completely changed her thinking.

[00:24:30] And I had grabbed this friend of ours. She's another transgender friend that lives with Robin. Robin's been her big advocate to come out and be comfortable are scared. And this is the first night she was out at one of these events and I looked at her and was like can I talk to you for a second? And she was like, yeah. You're nervous here, right? Yet. I was just called an impostor. And I was like you see how similar it is where you feel like you're not in the right place and now I'm being told that I'm not in the right place but we all have to learn from situations like this so. That was a really important moment that I appreciate.

Passionistas: [00:25:06] So looking back at your path so far, is there one moment that you can reflect on and think that was the most courageous thing I've done and it changed the journey that I'm taking.

Erin Penner: [00:25:19] It really would just be running for the neighborhood council because the only reason why I did it I was realizing teaching or being out in the park with the kids. One of the bathrooms was neglected and almost burned down because someone who lit a fire in the paper towel dispenser. And it affected the plumbing. And because you know there was no funding or they just didn't really want to fix it, that broken bathroom just stood there in disrepair for months and months. And in order to not fix it they had to put porta potties in the park. I found out from the maintenance worker, because I always teach the kids, too, those are good friends. So we're very close to them because they've seen our trash cans and that's important. So we know that Julie is coming to clean the trash cans. And Julie and I were talking one day and she's like do you know how much it costs to clean those porta potties because here comes a toilet truck every day or so and I know I doing the math that was thousands of dollars that we were spending rather than just fixing a broken pipe in the bathroom. And it irked me so bad.

[00:26:23] And at that time I saw a bus bench ads for Run for Neighborhood Council and I didn't even know we had one which is also part of my job is to get the word out for that because many people don't know. So I was so nervous but I put up flyers and I had like people had the signs in their yard with my name on it. I was like This is like so not me at all. But that was kind of the gutsiest thing. And then I end up winning by a landslide and it was just like oh my god, what we all could do and we underestimate what we can do. And it really just changed everything for me.

Passionistas: [00:26:59] Do you have cultural heroines that have influenced you?

Erin Penner: [00:27:02] It would be Lucille Ball and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Because I feel like it's so important to be a bad ass basically but to have humor in there. And I think people forget that and they think you have to be so stiff and dry. But I mean that's, that's those are generally my closest friends, who are not only can they handle my mouth but they're equally funny and just you know let it all slide and I feel like those two women were at the pinnacle like that and that picture of that. It's really important to me I can't stand when people censor me. I realized for years people di. My exboyfriend did. And it was always you know be quiet, you're too loud, and that's raunchy or whatever. And as you get older you're like that is the exact opposite of what I am or what I want or anything. And that's those are kind of the women that I loo up to.

Passionistas: [00:27:57] Tell us about your grandmothers.

Erin Penner: [00:27:58] Oh dod. They're the best. They're both crazy in their own way. My Italian grandmother Maggie... Like I said I was raised in my family's Italian restaurant. So as it can, I mean I was working at 5 years old. Because not only was it free childcare it's like good fill the jelly jars and make the salads and stuff like that. But she like my earliest memories with her as we sit in the foyer of our restaurant. And back then it had a smoking room and a non-smoking room, which is so ridiculous because it's not like there's a wall. It's just, it's nothing. So we would sit there and... Our restaurant was next to the Cape Playhouse which is an old play house, we we'd get a lot of theater people and families. But she was so, is so unfiltered which I love. I'm very grateful for. She would play a game where... at like eight years old, we had to say if the person was drunk, or if they were on drugs, or if the woman was "putana," which is not the best word. Or a "Stunad" which is an idiot. But she would have me judge these people as soon as they walked in the door. And I was like this we're doing and my dad would get so mad. But I loved it because it was just hilarious. And I could put it aside and differentiate between like how you treat people and how not to. But also to enjoy the fact that my grandmother was nuts.

[00:29:26] She and that's how she is. And then my other grandmother there were both around the same age and she talks exactly the same and there's no filter. And I mean they're my sisters. And I actually... Like those Akashic Records that I did. I had why are my grandmothers like my sisters? And I'm... I know we literally don't see age. And this woman had said, it's really weird you say that because people always ask what their spirit animal is and yours didn't come up. What came up was a beach ball. And it's because you think, you look at everyone is ageless. And so to you, literally are grandmothers are not 80 years old. So you talk to them like they're 16. They do the same thing. And there's no age. That is literally how I felt my entire life. So yeah they're they're just my best friends. 

Passionistas: [00:30:18] So you accomplish so many things is there one thing you're the most proud of?

Erin Penner: [00:30:22] I'd have to say when Charles and Bridget were living here and just getting their message to so many people. It actually got us on the radio. We Were on an AM radio show during the Christmas time. Like a uplifting radio show. And that was another moment that actually pissed me off at the same time because after we had told the story and it was such a feel good story. And it was like we're all humans and we can all live under the same roof. And they were strangers living with me and we were family.

[00:30:53] And at the end this interviewer, who is a very sweet guy, was like Erin is there anything we said that we haven't covered. And I said yeah this guy was in Iraq and he's in a sleeping bag and that's what this country does to people. And that's so much we don't appreciate people have fought and risked their lives to fight for his country. And they didn't air it because it wasn't feel good enough. On social media, he expressed the fight that he did. And he saved a police officer's life... That some guy on bath salts was going to kill this police officer and Charles jumped in and saved his life and he got a medal of valor and he's still sleeping in a sleeping bag. So we were able to tell those stories from them living here and it really taught so many people so many things about how we treat just our brothers and sisters out there. So I think just them living here and getting their message out was my proudest moment.

Passionistas: [00:31:48] So what advice would you give to a young woman who wants to be an activist?

Erin Penner: [00:31:52] Don't be discouraged by people that try to silence you. And to think my biggest hurdle, and I get it from my friends, good friends a lot, is they view your passion as anger. Now we say just because I'm pissed that our rights are being taken away, don't think that I'm sitting at home and I'm burning my bra and throwing crap across the house and then I hate life. And so I mean I'm laughing and smiling nonstop. And there is this misconception that if you're passionate and angry about something that you must be angry inside and it's not true. And I think that's something we need to teach girls a lot is to have a voice and be really loud and to not be mad, not to be mad at people that think you're just angry. They just don't get it. And you're allowed to just stomp your feet and try to fix stuff.

[00:32:46] Robin's done that for me a lot because I'll still say like oh god I shouldn't I should get so mad and say that. Or not it's not very positive and she's like screw that. Like that was wrong and you have every right to yell at that person and stick up for them. And so god have to keep reminding myself that because we always apologize. We're just taught to apologize. I refuse to, refuse to do that anymore. My friend calls me "unapologetically angry" and it's like my favorite slogan because it's true. Like I'm not scared of being angry anymore. And I'll go have hine and laugh and watch stupid TV all day.

Passionistas: [00:33:25] What's your definition of success?

Erin Penner: [00:33:27] The success is just... Kind of like with your mantra and what you find the most rewarding, if you wake up and you're not dreading the day that's really success. And to go to bed knowing that the day was amazing and... It's crazy as much as you know the hardship that you see every day and the hard work that you do. I never, I never ever get tired of it. And there's I'm always thinking of the next thing that I want to fix. Even if it makes me so mad. I always, I just always say like having a fire under my ass. And people are like you're taking on too much. Like no I'm so glad this thing just pissed me off because now I'm going to fix it. And that's success if you can just keep doing that kind of stuff all the time. To me that's success.

Passionistas: [00:34:12] What's your secret to a rewarding life?

Erin Penner: [00:34:15] I realize that I am living the most rewarding life and it's helping people. And it's, to me it's selfish in a way because helping people makes me feel so good. And it's not, sometimes I'm like in my doing this other kindness in my heart or is it just because I literally I get off on their smile or just giving them a sweater or something like that. But I think if you wake up every day and you don't hate your job and you're making someone smile it's just the most rewarding thing ever.

Passionistas: [00:34:47] Thanks for listening to the Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Erin Penner. To find out more about ILA visit ILAAdventureSchool.org. And be sure to subscribe to the Passionistas Project Podcast so you don't miss any of our upcoming inspiring guests.

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