The Psychonaut Show

The Psychonaut Show

By John Burton, MD and Tracy Sidesinger, PsyDSocial SciencesMental HealthSelf-Improvement
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The Psychonaut Show episodes

  • Dr. Mona Jain on Standing Up Against Racial Oppression Through Grounded Ceremonial Practice

    On this episode of The Psychonaut Show, we talk with psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Dr. Mona Jain. Among many other things, Dr. Mona maintains a psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy practice in Western Massachusetts. She discusses with us the ongoing history of racial oppression in psychedelics at the collective scale. Rather than taking a pessimistic view, however, she also guides listeners in how to honor and connect to traditional practice instead. Dr. Mona shares with us the intentional, grounded principles of her psychedelic practice, starting from her identity as a South Asian woman and rooted in the natural landscape of Western Massachusetts. She considers how, on an individual level, psychedelics can facilitate greater connection to ancestors including both racialized traumas and ancestral strengths. Dr. Mona passionately encourages listeners to think about racial justice, equity, and interconnection at all levels of psychedelic experience.

    Links:

    • Dr. Mona’s psychedelic clinic in Western MA https://satyapsychedelics.com/

    • The Ethical Principles of Traditional Indigenous Medicine to Guide Western Psychedelic Research and Practice that Dr. Mona mentioned as an ethical framework

    • Culture and Psychedelic Psychotherapy: Ethnic and Racial Themes from Three Black Women Therapists paper that Dr. Mona cited

    59 min
  • Our Journey So Far: From Diagnosis to Relationship

    In this episode, we sit down for our second reflective Journey So Far retrospective. Weaving in rich insights from our last three guests, Dr. Larry Fischman, Dr. Diana Moga, and Dr. Harold Kudler, we explore how psychiatric diagnoses can be re-examined through the lenses of psychoanalysis and spirituality. We also do a deep dive into the productive tension of our own clinical backgrounds, contrasting ego psychology and drive theory with relational and depth psychoanalysis, and share how our understanding of each other's traditions has deepened by holding space for patients in non-ordinary states of consciousness.

    We consider how a therapeutic relationship and an inner healing intelligence are both part of healing psychedelic journeys. The relational aspects of psychedelic transformation are uniquely addressed by psychoanalytic approaches. We distinguish this from the role of ceremony, which is seen as also highly important.

    50 min
  • Dr. Harold Kudler on Veterans, Science, and the Search for Meaning

    Our guest on this episode is Dr. Harold Kudler, a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, former co-chair of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Special Committee on PTSD, and member of the American Psychiatric Association's psychedelics workgroup. Our conversation journeys through historical understandings of trauma, military psychiatry, and psychedelic medicine. Along the way, Dr. Harold revisits figures ranging from Charcot, Freud, and W.H.R. Rivers to William James and John Keats, considering the longstanding tension in psychiatric care between science and magic. Throughout, Dr. Harold offers a nuanced perspective that resists easy answers, embracing scientific rigor while acknowledging that healing may involve dimensions of meaning, ritual, relationship, and altered consciousness that medicine does not fully explain.

    Drawing on decades of work with veterans, Dr. Harold maps historical understandings of PTSD and its treatment. With caution and hope, he explores important questions such as:

    • Can psychedelics help restore meaning and human connection after devastating experiences?

    • Are the visionary aspects of psychedelic experiences side effects—or central to their healing potential?

    • How do clinicians balance evidence-based medicine with the enduring human pull toward transcendence and transformation?

    This episode is a thoughtful exploration of trauma, longing for mystery, and the enduring question at the heart of both psychotherapy and psychedelic medicine: How do we help people find their way back to a world that feels worth living in?

    52 min
  • Dr. Diana Moga on Ketamine, Neurodiversity, and the Transitional Space
    In this episode of The Psychonaut Show, we sit down with Dr. Diana Moga to explore the intersection of neurodiversity, psychoanalysis, and psychedelic-assisted healing. Dr. Diana holds an MD and a PhD in neuroscience and is also trained in psychiatry and psychoanalysis, and her work extends across the topics of gender and sexuality, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, and neurodiversity. In this episode we focus on the clinical application of ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, specifically highlighting its benefits for neurodiverse individuals. Dr. Diana discusses the higher incidence of social trauma that neurodiverse individuals are exposed to, and conversely, the ways in which KAP may be particularly suited to opening back up a field of play and relational trust. She also problematizes the idea that neurodiversity itself needs treated, and instead brings individual experience back to the center of treatment.
    Dr. Diana referenced several scholarly works that are linked here for further exploration:
    Reduction in Social Anxiety After MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy with Autistic Adults-- paper by Nick Walker, Alicia Danforth, et al. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30196397/
    Hans Loewald's paper On the Therapeutic Action of Psycho-Analysis https://it.scribd.com/document/190181049/Hans-Loewald-On-the-Therapeutic-Action-of-Psycho-Analysis
    The Disintegrating Self: Psychotherapy of Adult ADHD, Autistic Spectrum, and Somato-psychic Disorders by Phil Mollon-- https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9780429481499/disintegrating-self-phil-mollon
    1 hr 2 min
  • Dr. Larry Fischman on Inner Healing Intelligence as a Relational Process
    In this episode, we hear from Dr. Larry Fischman, a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst whose work has long bridged the gap between psychedelic states and the human unconscious. Dr. Fischman enters the journey with his own "arbitrary beginning" in 1973 when a high school road trip to see the Grateful Dead led to his first LSD experience—a profound departure from his known world that opened a lifelong inquiry into different states of consciousness.
    The conversation delves into Dr. Larry’s early writing where he compared the quality of consciousness in psychedelic states to dreams and psychotic episodes. He explains how these states are similar in the way they allow direct access to primary process. By depathologizing these experiences, he suggests that what we often view with fear in psychiatry is actually an accessible, albeit different, plane of reality.
    Dr. Larry argues that psychedelic-assisted therapy is not just an isolated interior journey, but an interpersonal field where the presence of the therapist is vital. This is particularly powerful for those healing from developmental trauma; by leaning into the concept of "inner healing intelligence," a therapist can help a patient regain trust by first encouraging them to trust their own internal resources.
    Drawing on the works of Aldous Huxley, Stan Grof, and D.W. Winnicott, Dr. Larry explores the "is-ness" of the psychedelic experience—the moment when one sees the world stripped of learned abstractions. He concludes with a vision for the future where psychedelics are embraced as "a royal road to the unconscious," serving as essential allies for analysts in helping people truly understand themselves.
    56 min
  • Our Journey So Far
    In this reflection episode, Dr. Tracy and Dr. John pause to integrate the groundbreaking work and far-reaching associations generated in their conversations with their first three guests:
    Dr. Alexa Albert on using MDMA to treat pathological narcissism, Dr. Jeffrey Guss on the "lost sisters" of psychoanalysis and psychedelics and their current reunion, and Dr. Megan Rundel on reframing mystical states as profoundly connective rather than merely regressive.
    Moving beyond the interviews, Tracy and John dive into a candid discussion about the evolution of the analyst’s role. They challenge traditional Freudian neutrality and explore the value of clinical authenticity, the impact of an analyst’s own psychedelic experiences, and how a relational approach creates a unique play space for deep psychological healing.
    47 min
  • Dr. Megan Rundel on Expanded States of Consciousness
    In this episode, we speak with clinical psychologist, psychoanalyst, and Zen teacher Dr. Megan Rundel about her work at the intersection of psychoanalysis, psychedelics, and spirituality. Drawing on her recent paper “Expansion and Regression in Oceanic Experience: A Model of Psychedelic Consciousness for Psychoanalysis,” Dr. Megan explores how psychedelic states and psychoanalytic treatment approach psychological terrain in ways that are both contrasting and complementary.
    The conversation examines how psychedelic experiences can disrupt entrenched psychological patterns—often linked to the brain’s default mode network—while psychoanalysis provides the slower, relational framework needed to understand and integrate those experiences. Dr. Megan also discusses the role of the unconscious, transference, and ethical “frame” in psychedelic work, and argues that psychoanalytic thinking can deepen the field beyond its current short-term clinical models.
    Finally, the discussion turns toward expansive states of consciousness often described as mystical or oceanic—experiences of interconnectedness, ego expansion, and love—and how psychoanalysis might develop a richer language for understanding them.
    Episode Links:
    - Dr. Megan Rundel's article Expansion and Regression in Oceanic Experience https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10481885.2025.2574581
    - Learn more about Dr. Megan Rundel on her website: https://www.drmeganrundel.com/
    1 hr 3 min
  • Dr. Jeffrey Guss on the Lost History of Psychedelics in Psychoanalysis
    In this episode, Dr. Jeffrey Guss shares his journey in psychedelics starting as a curious 14-year-old during the Summer of Love, to becoming a leading researcher and trainer in psychedelic therapy. We break down the historical relationship between psychoanalysis and psychedelics -- from the 1950's psycholytic therapy with LSD to criminalization in the 1970's through the Controlled Substances Act -- and explore how psychedelic substances can address a myriad of things from mystical spiritual experiences to existential anxiety in cancer patients. The forgotten history of psychedelics in psychoanalysis comes to light through Dr. Jeff's careful attention to the historical record.
    Episode links:
    - Dr. Jeffrey Guss, Lead Trainer at Fluence https://www.fluencetraining.com/about/team/dr-jeffrey-guss
    - Dr. Jeffrey Guss's publications on psycholytic and psychedelic-assisted therapy https://med.nyu.edu/faculty/jeffrey-r-guss
    1 hr 2 min
  • Dr. Alexa Albert on Treating Narcissism with MDMA

    In the first interview episode of The Psychonaut Show, hosts Dr. John and Dr. Tracy welcome Dr. Alexa Albert. Dr. Alexa’s clinical work focuses on the enduring psychological patterns shaped by early relational trauma, particularly pathological narcissism. This episode centers on Dr. Alexa’s groundbreaking work leading the first clinical trial to investigate MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for pathological narcissism.

    Dr. Alexa discusses the importance of integrating psychedelic treatment with psychotherapy, and how psychoanalytic therapy is particularly suited to this work. She explains why models that separate medicine from sustained therapeutic relationships risk leaving patients emotionally exposed without adequate support. For individuals with narcissistic defenses, she argues, the therapeutic alliance itself is central. MDMA, in her view, does not replace the work of therapy but enhances it.

    Dr. Alexa addresses common misconceptions about narcissism, reframing it not as excessive self-love but as a condition rooted in profound feelings of unworthiness, invisibility, and unmet relational needs. She describes how narcissistic defenses develop as adaptive responses to unsafe early environments and how MDMA-assisted therapy may help patients access buried vulnerability and foster profound relational openness, experiences that would otherwise take years to reach in conventional psychoanalysis. She weaves together psychoanalysis, trauma theory, and psychedelic science, offering a thoughtful and humane vision for how these medicines might expand the possibilities of deep psychological healing.

    Episode Links:
    - Alexa Albert's website https://www.alexaalbert.com/
    - Information on Dr. Alexa's current pilot study for treating pathological narcissism with MDMA-assisted therapy https://depts.washington.edu/mdma-narcissism/
    - Dr. Alexa's co-authored paper providing the rationale for MDMA-assisted therapy as an appropriate, targeted treatment for pathological narcissism https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2025.1529427/full

    1 hr 2 min
  • Introducing The Psychonaut Show
    In this inaugural episode, psychoanalysts Dr. Tracy and Dr. John introduce The Psychonaut Show and explore the growing convergence between psychoanalysis and psychedelics. Reflecting on their personal and professional journeys, they trace how curiosity about the unconscious, skepticism shaped by the war on drugs, and evolving research in trauma and mental health led them to this shared space. Through discussion of concepts like the psychonaut as an explorer of mind and soul, the default mode network, mystical experience, safety, “set and setting,” and the role of transference and integration, they highlight how psychedelics and psychoanalysis can deepen one another.
    52 min

About The Psychonaut Show

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The Psychonaut Show is a podcast exploring the interface of psychedelics and psychoanalysis, guiding curious minds on a journey deeper into the unconscious, self-discovery, and change. Join…