The Real Wine Show

California Cab Fatigue, Hybrids vs. Classics, and a Chillable Minervois Red with Roast Chicken on The Real Wine Show (S8E6)

In the season eight finale of The Real Wine Show, we thank our sponsor , the Gabriel Group (www.gabrielgrp.com) and introduce panelists Jason Lyons (assistant winemaker at Social Vines), House Alpens’ Midwest sales manager Megan Heinowski, and Red Wagon Rochester Wine Shop wine director Mick Descamps. 

Panelists shared their “hot takes,” including boredom with oversaturated California cabernet, appreciating vermouth/oxidative and fortified styles as “wine,” and big suppliers narrowing restaurant lists while accelerating market decline. News topics debate how to position cold-climate hybrids, whether influencer “thirst posting” drives demand, and the Sancerre price/availability pivot to nearby Loire appellations. 

Glass checks include Bayernmoor Pinot Noir, J.B. Becker Riesling, Pierre-Yves Colin-Morey Saint-Aubin, and Leflaive Mâcon-Verzé. 

Chef Jason’s Grape to Plate pairs a light Minervois blend from Clos Centeilles with brined roast chicken, potatoes, and kale; Wine Cipher is won by Mick; an emotive blind reveals a multi-vintage Austrian Grüner blend from aged barrels that were left without being topped, and Megan brings home the big prize!

00:00 Season Finale Kickoff

00:17 Sponsor Spotlight Gabriel Group

01:06 Meet Jason Lyons 

01:48 California Cab Debate

03:30 Meet Megan Heinowski

04:24 Vermouth Is Wine

06:19 Meet Mick Descamps

07:11 Big Suppliers Backlash

09:52 Glass Check Tasting Notes

13:39 News Segment Hybrids Future

17:00 Selling Hybrids Smartly

20:28 Social Media Thirst Posting

24:04 Influencers Versus Craft

28:43 What Is Carcavelos

30:37 Rare Carcavelos Deep Dive

31:05 Tasting Notes and Rancio

32:01 Taylor Swift Bottle Banter

32:07 Sancerre Solution Debate

36:45 Downselling and Climate Shift

39:45 Glass Check and Score Update

42:29 Mystery Red Wine Analysis

45:28 Roast Chicken Pinot Pairing

48:13 Sides Potatoes and Kale

52:44 Reveal Minervois Blend

53:18 Chillable Red Reveal

53:56 Brining Poultry Practical Hack

55:13 Why Not Brine Steak?

56:41 Wine Cipher Game

57:10 Decoding Tasting Notes

01:00:45 Emotive Blind Setup

01:04:09 Springtime Wine Stories

01:09:39 Scores and Winner

01:10:22 Blind Wine Unveiled

01:12:21 Wrap and Final Toast

America Still Doesn’t Get Wine:  Three Wine Biz Owners on Culture, Community, and the Magic We're Missing.  Discover why South African wine is poised to win, if America has a problem appreciating wine, and find out which Friulian chardonnay gives sunny, Greek beach vibes! (The Real Wine Show S8E5).

Episode five of season eight opens with a shout-out to sponsor Gabriel Group (www.gabrielgrp.com)  and introduces panelists Tommy York (owner of Ann Arbor wine hotspot and cafe, York), Emily Dorr (Flint community developer and owner of Queen’s Provisions), and Lori Herron (founder of Social Vines Vineyard and Winery in Dexter). Their hot takes include Emily calling for a 2026 “Judgment of Paris” redo with South Africa challenging California, Tommy arguing wine’s “magic” is underappreciated versus beer and spirits, and Lori defending Riesling’s range beyond sweetness. 

Glass checks include Lalarge-Peugeot Champagne Tradition, Cartell Serena Prosecco, and a Bayernmoor Cellars Pinot Noir from Puget Sound. They discuss a fake “ancient cellar” story and SV Bank’s wine report on hospitality-driven sales and pricing, plus the perils and benefits of NA wine. 

Chef Jason Bertold’s triple-blind tasting leads to a French style, spring-vegetable risotto matched to rare Coloma Alarije Dorado from Extremadura, Spain. The Wine Cipher identifies 2016 Lynch-Bages and Andre Cold Duck! Emotive blind tasting surprises with a delicious 2020 Pierpaolo Pecorari Chardonnay from Friuli, and Lori wins the game!

00:00 Welcome And Sponsor

00:53 Meet Tommy York (York Ann Arbor)

04:23 Meet Emily Dorr (Queens Provisions Flint)

08:56 Meet Lori Herron (Social Vines Dexter)

11:20 Riesling’s Reputation

12:41 Glass Check!

15:11 Fake News: Ancient Cellar

21:30 NA Wine Debate

24:14 Wine Industry Future

36:13 Score Update Segment

37:20 Grape to Plate w/ Chef Jason

40:34 Springy White Wine

41:31 French Style Risotto

42:52 Aged Carnaroli Rice

43:47 Risotto Cooking Plan

44:56 Vegetable Garnish Prep

46:11 Wine Reveal: a Spanish Alarije

47:57 Practical Hack: Blanching

50:01 Wine Cipher: Bordeaux

55:09 Candy Sparkler comes to the Cipher

01:00:03 Emotive Blind Tasting

01:08:25 Reveal: Friuli Chardonnay

01:09:35 Wines Of The Show

01:11:23 Scores And Farewell

Serious boss ladies get into it with Paper Bottles, Fake Wine Trains, and why stickies rule, plus a grenache-to-lamb pairing on The Real Wine Show (S8E4)

Special thanks to our sponsor Gabriel Group (gabrielgrp.com) for helping us make another great episode!

The show opens with intros to panelists Elisa Weber-Saintin (Little Guy Wine Company, celebrating 19 years; critic of predictable three-Michelin-star dining), Anna Nolan (Russian-born sommelier and co-owner of Vino and Vibes in Utica, aiming to “un-snob” wine), and Kristen Jonna (Michigan wine family royalty and owner of Vinology in Ann Arbor; she follows the moon!). In news debates, they discuss the viability of low-carbon “Frugal Pack” cardboard bottles versus glass, and a (fake) story about Japan’s underground wine trains, prompting talk of Michigan wine trains. Glass checks feature wines including Los Malditos Tempranillo, a Cremant de Loire sparkling wine, and a Slovenian pét-nat. The Wine Cipher note matches Château d’Yquem. On the Grape to Plate segment, Chef Jason Berthold pairs a 2022 McLaren Vale Grenache from Worlds Apart with grilled lamb loin crusted with black trumpet mushroom powder and pomegranate molasses plus chickpeas and grilled onions, sharing a grilling meal-prep hack. An emotive blind tasting generating Sound of Music vibes is revealed as a 2021 Lulu “BB1” Chardonnay/Savagnin blend from the Jura, and a 1975 Rivesaltes dessert wine stands out; Kristen takes home the big win!

00:00 Welcome and Sponsor

01:01 Meet the Panel

02:10 Elisa on Dining Hype

05:09 Anna Unsnobs Wine

07:54 Kristen’s Wine Royalty

10:40 Glass Check Tasting

17:36 Debate Paper Bottles

24:30 Fake News: Wine Trains

31:34 Wine Cipher Challenge

36:12 Dessert Wine Revival

38:22 Grape to Plate 

38:44 Chef tastes

40:18 Food Pairing Pivot

42:01 Grilled Lamb Plan

43:41 Mushroom Pomegranate Crust

46:00 Chickpea Ragu Sides

48:09 Bottle Reveal: Grenache

49:07 Practical Hack: Grill Extras

50:22 Second Glass Check

54:20 Somm Slam Event Plug

59:05 Emotive Blind Tasting

01:06:39 Unveiling Lulu BB1

01:08:13 Wines of the Show

01:09:47 Final Scores; Farewell

Champagne Semantics, Vibe Vocabulary, and Howell Mountain Vineyards Zin Pairing on The Real Wine Show (S8E3)

In episode three of season eight of The Real Wine Show, the hosts thank sponsor Gabriel Group (gabrielgrp.com) and introduce panelists Arturo (Mexico-born wine enthusiast pursuing WSET Level 3 with the hot take that there’s no bad champagne), Taylor Johnson (wine director/sommelier in Ann Arbor who rejects seasonal drinking), and journalist/filmmaker Mark Kurlyandchik (arguing wine jargon turns off new drinkers). 

In glass checks they discuss Lambrusco, a white Châteauneuf-du-Pape, and a Côte des Bar vintage Champagne. A debate explores replacing technical wine terms with “vibe vocabulary,” emphasizing meeting drinkers where they are while preserving expertise. Another story covers biodynamics and EMF-shielding products, leading to discussion of spirituality, labeling, and consumer information. Wine Cipher and an emotive blind tasting follow, plus Chef Jason Berthold’s Grape to Plate pairing a 2019 Howell Mountain Vineyards Zinfandel with charcoal-grilled dry-aged ribeye, beef-tallow potatoes, and black-garlic chimichurri; the blind wine is revealed as 2019 Von Winning Sauvignon Blanc, and Arturo wins the game!

00:00 Welcome and Sponsor

01:10 Meet Arturo Champagne Take

03:49 Meet Taylor No Seasons

06:44 Meet Mark Storytelling

09:04 Glass Check What’s Pouring

12:52 Vibe Versus Vocabulary

22:18 Biodynamics and Spirituality

31:04 Wine Cipher Tasting Game

35:55 Grape to Plate Setup

36:46 Color and Aromatics

37:26 Tannin and Fruit Structure

38:18 Red Wine Temperature Talk

40:47 Grill Pairing Vision

41:40 Dry Aged Beef Breakdown

44:17 Salt and Seasoning Sidebar

46:04 Wine Opens Up Notes

47:26 Black Garlic Chimichurri

50:19 Bottle Reveal Zinfandel

52:21 Live Fire Cooking Hack

53:37 Emotive Blind Tasting Returns

58:57 Reveal Von Winning Sauvignon

59:44 Wines of the Show and Wrap

Thanks for listening, and be sure to Like, Follow, & Subscribe, please! It really helps! :)

Stop playing it safe—it's time for Michigan to find its unique identity through small, thoughtful production. The "Grape to Plate" segment is a masterclass on slow-rendering duck breast with lavender, and we learn the tells of "tasting room theatre".

In episode two of season eight of The Real Wine Show, hosts Chaad Thomas and Matt Kuhr announce show sponsor Gabriel Group (www.gabrielgrp.com) and introduce panelists Alan Collins (Michigan vineyard project advocating risk-taking for a uniquely Michigan wine identity), wine traveler/judge Bobby Frank, and chef/winemaker Jason Berthold (promoting aging high-acid white wines). They discuss three news topics: billionaire winery acquisitions and their impact on wine’s “soul,” proposed 2026 U.S. ingredient-label transparency and consumer reactions to additives, and AI-driven wine recommendations in tasting rooms versus human sommeliers. During glass checks they taste wines including aged Muscadet and other bottles. The new “Grape to Plate” segment sees Chef Jason conjure a slow-rendered duck breast and swiss chard pan sauce from blind tasting a 2022 Famille Gras Côtes du Rhône. The show includes a Wine Cipher game, the popular emotive blind tasting (revealed as an Italian Ciliegiolo), and ends with Jason taking home the prize!

00:00 Welcome and Sponsor

01:05 Meet Alan Collins

03:42 Meet Bobby Frank

06:02 Meet Chef Jason

07:27 Glass Check

09:54 Billionaires Buying Wineries

15:51 Ingredient Label Transparency

21:14 AI Sommelier Debate

27:28 Grape to Plate Pairing

37:27 Duck Resting Plan

37:49 Chard Wine Pan Sauce

38:41 Jam And Duck Sauce

39:42 Wine Reveal Cote Du Rhone

41:51 Practical Hack: Low And Slow

42:44 Blind Notes Game Begins

42:54 Big Red Guess Chateau Pavie

45:39 Second Cipher Debate

49:56 Riesling Notes Too Easy

52:43 Glass Check #2

55:13 Michigan Wine Collaborative Events Update

56:33 Emotive Blind Tasting

01:03:12 Reveal Italian ciliegiolo

01:05:15 Favorite Wines And Scores

01:07:50 Final Wrap And Thanks

May is Michigan Wine Month:

Visit www.michiganwinecollaborative.com for event details.

Fifty years after the Judgment of Paris, is the wine world ready for another revolution? The panel dishes on world class Oregon Chardonnay, the chef dishes up buttery roasted oyster with hijiki seaweed, and we get into the growing movement for "Honest Wine" and label transparency, and why, despite the buzz, non-alcoholic wine stills falls short.

Season 8, Episode 1 of The Real Wine Show opens by thanking sponsor The Gabriel Group (www.gabrielgrp.com), a Midwest hospitality equipment supplier with showrooms and test kitchens. 

The panel introduces Rebecca Waldron (Bush’s beer/wine/spirits buyer and Michigan Craft Beverage Council member), Dr. Matthew Horkey (wine writer and YouTuber), and Domenico “Mimmo” Musumeci (West Michigan farmer-winemaker behind wine projects including Wine Pirati, emphasizing transparency and ingredient labeling). 

They debate whether the old world–new world rivalry still matters ahead of the Judgment of Paris 50th anniversary, discuss sommelier culture and blind tasting, and assess expensive no/low-alcohol wines. The group tastes wines including a Riesling pét-nat made with West Michigan oak barrels.  

On Grape to Plate,  Chef Jason pairs an Abruzzo sparkling blend with aromatically baked oysters and hijiki-butter. 

Segments include a “wine cipher” game, an emotive blind tasting revealed as Amarone, Michigan wine event announcements, the Glass Check, Grape to Plate, and Rebecca winning the episode scoring.

00:00 Season Eight Kickoff

00:15 Sponsor Spotlight: Gabriel Group

01:12 Meet Rebecca Waldron

02:05 Currant Flavor Debate

03:16 Meet Matthew Horkey

04:04 Oregon Chardonnay Case

05:20 Meet Domenico "Mimmo" Musumeci

06:41 Honest Wine Transparency

09:30 News Segment Begins

09:42 Judgment of Paris Revisited

10:32 French Versus American Today

16:23 Glass Check 

17:37 Michigan Oak Barrels

20:09 Sommelier Reality Show Talk

24:57 Blind Tasting Mythology

28:59 Luxury Non Alcohol Wines

35:33 Low Alcohol Alternatives

36:57 Michigan Wine Month Events

38:12 Dates and Show Notes

38:36 Grape to Plate w/ Chef Jason Berthold

39:58 Texture and Pairing Ideas

42:22 Oyster Pairing Blueprint

45:49 Hijiki Butter Broiled Oysters

48:10 Wine Reveal and Wrap

51:25 Wine Cipher Funky Note

54:59 Cipher Redemption Round

57:13 Emotive Blind Tasting Game

01:04:09 Blind Wine Reveal: Musella Amarone

01:05:35 Wine of the Show, Final Scores, and Farewell

The panel debates whether "Luxury Wine" is a real quality tier or just a marketing construct used to justify high prices. Plus, industry insiders Jarred Gild, Nick Arone, and Jarett Coy pull back the curtain on how restaurants determine wine list markups and the reality of selling high-end bottles in a changing market.

For the season 7 finale (and our 63rd episode!), we grabbed three of the coolest cats on Detroit's progressive wine scene and basically asked them to spill the tea (or, you know, the skin-contact orange wine).

Get ready to meet the panel:

• Jarred Gild: This OG Detroit tastemaker has been ahead of the curve forever. His pioneering wine vision is the secret sauce behind iconic spots like Western Market, Stadt Garden, Pash & Glou, The Schvitz, and the legendary Dakota Inn. Seriously, he's the map to Detroit natural wine history.

• Nick Arone: The guy who made a splash the moment he rolled into town! Originally from sunny California and rocking a cocktail background, Nick pivoted to pure wine passion and opened Bar Chenin—the super-chic wine haven inside the Siren Hotel. He's got some serious chops with wine, and he serves up some mean sandwiches, too!

• Jarett Coy (a.k.a. Vino in Detroit): If you're into Detroit's natural wine movement, you already follow this guy! Jarett's Instagram is your pocket guide to the city's best sips and bites, featuring interviews and explorations across the D. Like Gild, he's also a returning guest on the show; will their experience be the advantage that nets one of them the win?

What did we talk about? Oh, just everything! We dove deep on topics ranging from:

• Why the venerable German Wine Queen competition could be the model for a signature Michigan wine event.

• Is Pet-Nat the perfect "gateway wine" for your White Claw-loving friends? (Spoiler: Maybe!)

• The imminent proletarian wine revolution! Rise up and drink the riesling, comrades!

Join us for guaranteed laughs, some seriously hot tips on what you need to be drinking right now, and the kind of deeply geeky wine talk that makes you feel smarter and makes your life better.

Don't miss this one! Tune in, have a listen, and if you love the episode, do us a solid: Like, follow, or subscribe! Your support keeps the good juice—and the good content—flowing! Cheers!

Catch us on Instagram at @therealwineshow

Is the term "Fine Wine" losing its meaning in a market flooded with luxury marketing? Why Australian wines are still MIA in the American market, a debate the future of wine classification, and a deep dive into the traditional world of Mezcal and agave spirits.

S7 E5 is, as we say in the podcast biz, a meaty one, ranging from '90s pop movie references to a groundbreaking, highly technical, wine salvage technique, and onto practical suggestions on how to choose a spouse! We also taste wines from Italy, Georgia, and Australia...and opine on what happened to the latter in the USA market.

Our panelists for all this fascinating discussion are Cody Formisano of York, and Ann Arbor wine bar and retail spot; Pedro San Antonio, a longtime wine enthusiast and literature prof from Henry Ford Community College; and distiller and winemaker David Landrum, founder of Detroit's first post-Prohibition distillery, Two James.

It's a show we know you'll love, and we sincerely appreciate your audience! Please let us know if you enjoyed listening with a heart, like, follow or subscription; the feedback helps us continue to bring you this kind of unique, wine content.

You can listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or your preferred podcast source. You can listen and watch on YouTube, and keep up with our schedule and happenings on Instagram, at @therealwine show.

Thank you and enjoy!

This episode we ask, is California wine facing a permanent shift in consumer perception, or is it just a temporary slump? Is Veuve Clicquot missing out on Michigan? A debate over the future of domestic wine production, and exploration of the real-world impact of sustainable and regenerative farming on the juice in your glass.

The diversity of perspectives on the wine industry is something we love most about the business and something we want most to share with others, so we're extremely delighted to bring this group to the mics! Emily, who as the Executive Director of the Michigan Wine Collaborative, is working not only on the marketing side, but also working closely with producers. Kaira represents the consumer facet, running a wine social club that not only drinks wine, but gets members out in the world to visit wineries, explore dining, and really engage with the lifestyle of wine. Mike owns M4 Distributing, a speciality wine wholesaler focused on natural/organic wines supplying top restaurants and shops across Michigan. Distributors are a critical link in the chain from producer to consumer in 3-tier states like Michigan, so their unique perspective literally shapes what's available.

We had a great chat, filled with humor and insight, and think you'll enjoy these three as much as we did! Thanks for listening in!

Has the "Natural Wine" movement lost its rebellious soul to corporate investment and mass marketing? Join guests Chris Hunter, Kassy Fifer, and Kristie Brablec as they debate the commercialization of low-intervention wine and explore how modern wine tourism is shifting toward authentic, farm-to-table experiences.

Chris Hunter is well known not only to regular listeners, but also wine-loving travelers through Detroit's Metro airport, where he's been an outstanding presence at wine bar Vino Volo. Kassy is someone you'll love meeting, as her confidence, sportsmanship, and good humor clearly mark her as a force to be reckoned with, and her soon-to-open Bay City wine bar, Calypso, will certainly be a must-visit, too. And returning to the panelist table is our very own, spunky and irreverent co-host, Kristie Brablec, who stepped up to fill in for a guest who left us in the lurch. She does it all for you, dear listeners!

So yeah, lots of energy, thoughtful provocation, and laughs in this one; you might not even notice you're learning stuff about the wonderful world of wine, it's so much fun! Set the cruise control or pull up a chair, crank the volume, and enjoy a full 1 hour episode of engaging wine talk!

Please Like and subscribe, and follow us on Instagram at @therealwineshow. Your support means a lot to us. Thanks!