Marissa’s guest is noted writer David Kamp, who (along with Marissa) is an alumnus of Spy Magazine, which famously coined the term “short-fingered vulgarian” to describe New York real estate celebrity Trump. David discusses his recent editorial for the New York Times where he argues the stakes for our democracy are too high and it’s time to stop laughing at Trump. Which isn’t to say Marissa and David don’t share a chuckle or two on the podcast. Chocolate chip and halvah cookies are baked.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices