The Self-Leadership Lab

Heather O'Brien knows what it's like to love God and still struggle with depression, anxiety, fear, and feelings of unworthiness.

Today, she's a Christian healing coach, Bible teacher, and host of the Heal with God podcast. But her work grew out of her own journey toward faith, forgiveness, and learning to see herself differently.

In this conversation, Heather and I explore what it means to have a relationship with God rather than simply believe in Him. We talk about hearing God's voice, asking better questions, the relationship between our emotions and our identity, and why changing our circumstances doesn't necessarily change what's happening inside us.

We also get into some challenging territory.

Can our attachment to comfort or discomfort become an idol? How should Christians understand anxiety and spiritual warfare? What happens when shame, perfectionism, and the need to control everything begin shaping our identity?

Heather shares her spiritual perspective on these questions, and I share some of my own experiences with depression, weight loss, and learning to let go of the person I once believed I had to be.

One idea especially stayed with me: Sometimes we need to stop asking God to change our circumstances and start asking Him to show us what we need to understand.

We close with a conversation about forgiveness, grace, prayer, and the importance of Christian community.

This is a candid conversation about faith, emotional struggles, and the ongoing practice of self-leadership.

Connect with Heather

Listen to the Heal with God podcast.

Free workshop: https://healwithgodworkshop.com

This conversation reflects personal experiences and spiritual beliefs and is not a substitute for professional mental health care.

What are you getting fit for?

For Kade Jungkurth, fitness used to be largely about changing his body. Today, it means something much bigger.

Kade is the founder of Fitness Jungkie, author of The Fit 4 Life Performance Planner, and a coach who has helped more than 1,000 people improve their health and fitness.

In this conversation, Kade shares how the death of a close friend and client helped reconnect him with his Christian faith and ultimately changed the purpose behind his work.

We explore fitness not as an end in itself, but as a way to build the capacity to live, lead, love, and serve well.

Kade and I talk about the connection between physical, mental, and spiritual health; why Christians should think about stewardship of the body; the difference between fitness and vanity; why sustainable health doesn't require living in the gym; and how the discipline we develop physically can carry into our faith, families, relationships, and leadership.

Kade also walks through the four pillars behind his Fit 4 Life framework and explains why the goal isn't simply to become fit today. It's to build a lifestyle you can sustain for the rest of your life.

We finish with a deceptively simple challenge:

Keep one promise to yourself today.

Kade argues that repeatedly breaking promises to ourselves erodes self-trust.

Keeping one small promise begins rebuilding it. Kade Jungkurth - Video

This conversation isn't about six-pack abs.

It's about asking a much more important question:

What do I need to become capable of doing with the life I've been given?

About Kade:

Kade Jungkurth is the founder of Fitness Jungkie Training and creator of the Fit 4 Life coaching system.

With over 11 years of experience, he has helped more than 1,000 clients build stronger bodies, healthier habits, and lasting results.

Kade holds a degree in Sports Conditioning from Texas A&M University and has competed at a high level in both bodybuilding and powerlifting.

He combines his education, competitive experience, and years of coaching with practical, sustainable systems designed to help busy, high-performing leaders improve their health, energy, confidence, and performance; without sacrificing their careers or lifestyle.

https://www.fitnessjungkie.com/

Why do we struggle to make habits stick, even when we genuinely want to change?

Connie Kwan believes we may be starting in the wrong place.

Connie is a former Silicon Valley product executive who worked on technology designed to help people quit smoking. What she discovered was that the people who successfully changed weren't necessarily the ones with the most willpower. They had developed a compelling story about why the change mattered to them.

In this conversation, Connie and I explore the connection between habits, identity, confidence, motivation, values, and self-leadership.

We talk about why small goals can build confidence, what to do when the people around you resist your change, why your environment matters but isn't enough, and Connie's powerful metaphor of connecting the “balloon” of a new habit to the “anchor” of something you already deeply value.

We also challenge the idea that bigger goals are always better and discuss why sustainable change often begins with something almost laughably achievable.

Connie is currently writing Story Habits, which explores this approach to lasting behavior change.

If there's something in your life you've been trying to change, this conversation may help you ask a different question.

Instead of simply asking “How do I change?”

Maybe start with: “Why does this change matter to me?”

Connect with Connie: https://conniekwan.com/

Jorge Avalos was told he would never walk again.

After 22 years in the Army, deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, multiple combat injuries, a devastating skydiving accident, paralysis, numerous surgeries, and later being struck by a pickup truck while cycling, Jorge has had plenty of reasons to quit.

He didn't but this conversation isn't about refusing to quit.

It's about what Jorge chose to do with the life he fought so hard to reclaim.

After his injuries, Jorge returned to cycling and rediscovered a sense of freedom he thought he had lost. Today, through Adaptive Velo Warriors, he helps disabled veterans and first responders get back on bikes through adaptive equipment while rebuilding something many veterans lose when they leave the military: community and camaraderie.

Jorge and I also talk about his evolution from a self-described cocky young soldier into a servant leader, why grit can become a weakness when taken too far, the importance of rest and reflection, imposter syndrome, faith, and why leadership doesn't need to be as complicated as we often make it.

I especially appreciated Jorge's honesty about perseverance. The same drive that carried him through extraordinary circumstances has sometimes caused him to push himself too far and neglect his own needs while serving others. Jorge Avalos

That's self-leadership too: learning not only when to push, but when to recover.

At the end of our conversation, Jorge boils much of his philosophy down to three simple ideas:

Faith in God.

Faith in yourself.

And don't be a jerk.

Sometimes leadership really can be that simple.

About Jorge:

A 23-year Army Veteran, Ranger, and combat Veteran with multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, Jorge has built a life defined by service, resilience, and reinvention.

While serving in the Army, he became a professional skydiver. A life-changing skydiving accident ultimately led to his medical retirement from the Army and forced him to confront a completely different future. Rather than allowing the injury to define him, he rebuilt his life through determination, purpose, and service.

After retiring from the military, he became a professional cyclist and multiple-time cycling champion, master bicycle technician, custom bicycle frame builder, volunteer firefighter, and CNC machinist. He has also worked with nonprofits serving Veterans and is the founder and executive director of Adaptive Velo Warriors, an organization helping veterans and individuals with disabilities discover strength, independence, and connection through adaptive cycling.

A husband and father of four boys, Jorge brings real-world experience, honesty, and perspective to every conversation. This podcast explores military service, combat, family, recovery, adaptive sports, resilience, entrepreneurship, self-leadership and the people who find a way forward when life changes direction.

Watch Jorge's story on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rct1i0TbpIM

At 19 years old, Garrett Mintz was facing a future that looked very different from the one he's living today.

After dealing drugs from ages 15 to 19, Garrett received five felony distribution charges, was expelled from Indiana University, and faced the possibility of prison. Then something happened that would change the trajectory of his life.

People believed in him.

Garrett describes having people who saw something in him that he couldn't yet see in himself. One of those people gave him an internship despite knowing the risk involved. Others opened doors, made introductions, and helped him discover another way to channel something he'd been searching for all along: the desire to be needed.

Garrett eventually found that outlet through mentorship.

Today, Garrett is the founder and CEO of Ambition in Motion, where his work centers on helping leaders become better versions of themselves and creating workplaces where people can thrive.

This conversation goes far beyond Garrett's remarkable story.

We talk about persistence, entrepreneurship, mentorship, taking risks, finding meaningful work, recognizing opportunity, learning through experimentation, knowing when to quit, and what happens when someone gives another person a chance.

Garrett also shares something I think every entrepreneur needs to hear: the early years weren't glamorous. For five years, he didn't take a salary from his company. He bartended, served tables, and drove Uber while continuing to build the business.

Eventually, those small actions and years of persistence compounded.

Maybe that's one of the biggest lessons from Garrett's story.

Someone may open the door for you. But you still have to be willing to walk through it.

About Garrett: Garrett Mintz is the founder and CEO of Ambition In Motion where he connects executives with each other to help them work through their most pressing challenges in a peer group format. His vision is a world where the vast majority of people are excited to go to work; when they are there, their expectations meet reality; and when they come home, they feel fulfilled. He believes leaders are at the heart of this mission, as leaders create the experiences employees have at work.

Connect with Garrett: https://ambition-in-motion.com/

What could 12 years as a pastor possibly have in common with 24 years as an FBI agent?

More than you might think.

My guest this week is Eric Robinson, a recently retired FBI Special Agent whose career took an unusual path.

Before joining the Bureau, Eric spent 12 years in ministry and eventually became a senior pastor.

But ministry was taking a toll.

Eric found himself carrying the problems of the people he served without having a community where he could be equally vulnerable. He felt pressure to appear happy and put together while privately carrying enormous stress.

For two years, that stress manifested as daily headaches.

Then Eric decided he needed to make a change.

He applied to the FBI.

What Eric discovered over the next 24 years is that his two careers weren't as different as they appeared.

Both required him to understand people.

His years in ministry had taught him how to listen, connect, remain curious, and create enough safety for someone to talk.

Those skills followed him directly into law enforcement.

Eric says:

“I don't get confessions by talking.”

Instead, he learned to ask questions, tolerate uncomfortable silence, and give people room to reveal themselves.

We also explore leadership.

Eric makes an important distinction between authority and influence. In the FBI, he had authority to enforce the law. But having authority didn't automatically make someone a good leader.

Some of the best leaders he encountered understood that their job was to equip capable people and remove obstacles from their path. One supervisor routinely ended conversations by asking:

“What else do you need?”

We also talk about something deeper.

Identity.

After more than two decades as an FBI agent, Eric found himself approaching retirement and wondering what life would look like when he was no longer “the FBI guy.”

He describes it as something of an existential crisis.

Eventually, he began learning to say:

I did that. That was great. I'm not that anymore.

That part of our conversation will resonate with anyone who has ever allowed a career, title, uniform, position, or accomplishment to become intertwined with who they believe they are.

And in the end, Eric brings us back to something remarkably simple:

Be curious.

Before giving the answer, listen.

Before assuming you understand someone, ask another question.

Before allowing what you already believe to close your mind, leave enough room to learn something new.

Eric learned that as a pastor.

He practiced it as an FBI agent.

And I think it's a lesson worth carrying into the way all of us lead ourselves and others.

Follow Eric at his Preacher To Breacher website (https://preachertobreacher.com/)to stay up to date with his latest content, or check out Instagram @_eric_robinson.

What does it mean to look for good when your circumstances don't feel good at all?

That's not a hypothetical question for Kathy Rogers.

Kathy is the author of Look for Good: Discovering God in Grief, Celebration, and the Everyday. Her message has been tested through cancer, the death of her mother, and the unimaginable loss of her 29-year-old daughter, Elena.

And yet Kathy still chooses to look for good.

Not because she denies what's happened.

Not because grief doesn't hurt.

And certainly not because she believes Christians are supposed to put on a smile and pretend everything is okay.

Kathy describes looking for good as something active. It's a practice she developed through suffering, faith, gratitude, and learning to relinquish her desire to control outcomes.

We talk openly about what grief actually looks like.

Kathy shares about trying to be strong for everyone else after Elena died, numbing some of what she was feeling, and eventually realizing that she couldn't avoid the grief. She had to walk through it.

There's also a beautiful moment when Kathy describes eventually catching a glimpse of herself again:

“I'm still in here.”

She wasn't suddenly finished grieving. She still missed her daughter terribly. But there was a glimmer that Kathy was still there and that, somehow, she was going to be okay.

That may be one of my favorite lessons from this conversation.

Grief can become part of your story without becoming your entire identity.

We also talk about what to say when someone you love is hurting, why sometimes acknowledging someone's pain matters more than finding the perfect words, and how gratitude can slowly retrain us to notice goodness again.

Kathy's practical challenge is simple:

Find three things you're grateful for every day. Write them down.

Because the more intentionally we look for good, the more likely we are to see it.

This is a conversation about grief.

But even more than that, it's a conversation about faith, hope, gratitude, community, and trusting God when we don't understand what He's doing.

Kathy has earned the right to talk about all of them.

About Kathy: Kathy Rogers is a speaker, business owner, podcaster, and author whose life was forever changed by two breast cancer diagnoses—first her own, then her daughter’s. Despite a fierce battle, Kathy’s daughter passed away at 29 years old. This unimaginable loss transformed Kathy’s lens on life, allowing her to find faith, joy, and peace in all circumstances. Her voice is a guiding light for those seeking clarity, courage, and connection during cultural noise and complexity.

Website: https://www.thekathyrogers.com/

What if personal growth isn't always about becoming more?

What if sometimes it's about becoming more fully who you already are?

Brian Miller is the president of Coach Approach Ministries and founder of P3 Leadership, where his work focuses on presence, partnership, purpose, and helping people grow through what he calls “drawing out rather than pouring in.”

That simple idea took our conversation somewhere much deeper.

We live in a world constantly telling us we're not enough.

Be more productive. Get in better shape. Make more money. Grow your audience. Improve your performance. Become 1% better.

Brian made an observation that stopped me: sometimes that message can reinforce the very belief we're trying to overcome.

You're not enough yet.

So we explored another possibility.

What if growth isn't always about pouring more information, advice, habits, and expectations into ourselves?

What if we need someone to help draw out what's already there?

At one point, Brian turned that question toward me and asked what characteristics are essentially “Bobby Shelton.”

That led to a realization I've been wrestling with recently.

I'm 6'5", but I've spent much of my life trying to make myself smaller. I've heard some version of “don't be so loud, don't talk so much, don't be so big.”

Maybe I've internalized the belief that taking up less space makes more room for everyone else.

Brian challenged that assumption.

Perhaps showing up fully doesn't take space away from others. Maybe being bigger gives other people permission to be bigger too.

We also talk about advice, coaching, podcasting, comparison, intrinsic motivation, false beliefs, confidence, authenticity, and why knowing what to do rarely creates lasting change.

Brian's challenge at the end is beautifully simple:

Figure out who you are.

Challenge the false beliefs telling you that person isn't enough.

And become comfortable being the best version of you

Connect with Brian:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-miller-coach-approach/

Website: https://coachapproachministries.org/

What if becoming a better leader has less to do with learning how to lead others and more to do with learning how to lead yourself?

My guest this week is Ahmet Bozer, former President of Coca-Cola International and author of Soulgery: Unlock Your Potential.

After spending 26 years at Coca-Cola and eventually overseeing the company's operations outside North America, Ahmet entered the next chapter of his life intending to share what he'd learned about leadership. But as he began writing, he discovered something deeper: the better we become at leading ourselves, the better equipped we are to lead others.

That realization eventually led him away from writing a traditional leadership book and toward Soulgery, an exploration of how we continually develop our potential to become more capable, impactful, and resilient.

Our conversation goes well beyond business.

We talk about ego and what Ahmet calls our "sense of self," why he tries not to think in terms of success and failure, and how both can distort the way we see ourselves.

Ahmet also shares one practice he believes we don't do nearly enough: self-reflection.

It's not enough to simply accumulate experiences. We must examine them. What was I thinking? What was I feeling? Why did I react that way? What patterns keep appearing?

Over time, that practice becomes a way of strengthening our inner selves just as exercise strengthens our bodies.

We also explore character, wisdom, identity, potential, relationships, and the possibility that personal growth isn't always about adding more to ourselves.

Sometimes it's about removing the things that are getting in the way.

One of my favorite moments comes when I ask Ahmet whether he'd rather be known for having been President of Coca-Cola International or simply for who he is.

His answer stopped me:

He wants to be seen as an "aspiring human being."

Because titles end. Careers end. But the work of becoming a fuller version of ourselves can continue until our last breath.

And perhaps that's what self-leadership is ultimately about.

Not creating a more impressive résumé.

Becoming a better human being.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why self-leadership comes before leading others

• Ahmet's journey from Coca-Cola executive to author

• The philosophy behind Soulgery

• Why "success" and "failure" can both become traps

• Ego and our sense of self

• Developing a habit of self-reflection

• Why experience alone doesn't necessarily produce wisdom

• Character as something we develop through action

• Removing the barriers we create within ourselves

• Human potential and lifelong growth

• Working on the self, not for the self

Ahmet closes our conversation with a beautiful idea: he believes in the potential of people he's never even met. Every one of us, he argues, has the capacity to become more capable, resilient, and impactful than we are today. His hope is that we learn to believe that about ourselves.

That's a message I can get behind.

About Ahmet Bozer:

Ahmet Bozer is the former President of Coca-Cola International and author of Soulgery: Unlock Your Potential. His work focuses on helping people continually develop their capabilities, impact, resilience, wisdom, character, and humanity.

Connect with Ahmet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahmetbozer/

What if becoming the person you think you should be is actually keeping you from becoming who you are?

Tripp Lanier has spent more than 20 years coaching men, executives, business owners, and high performers. He's the author of This Book Will Make You Dangerous and host of The New Man Podcast. His work explores a deceptively simple question: What does it take to stop settling and actually feel alive?

In this conversation, we explore Tripp's ideas around aliveness, freedom, love, and peace and how each relates to self-leadership.

We talk about why comfort can slowly make our lives smaller, why the limitations we experience are often more self-imposed than we realize, and why men in particular can struggle to be honest about what's really happening in their lives. Tripp makes an important distinction between vulnerability as weakness and vulnerability as simple transparency.

The conversation eventually becomes deeply personal as I share how I once tried to transform myself into someone completely different because I didn't like who I was. That leads us into a discussion about achievement, suffering, discipline, self-rejection, and the possibility that real growth begins not with hating who we are, but with learning to accept and honor ourselves.

As Tripp puts it, peace doesn't arrive after we've finally fixed everything. It begins when we can look in the mirror and accept the imperfect person who's already there.

This is a conversation about becoming more alive without believing you have to become someone else first.

About Tripp Lanier

Tripp Lanier coaches men to get out of the rat race, become an authority in their field, and make a great living doing meaningful work they love. From small business owners, to startup founders, to Navy SEALs — Tripp has coached anyone and everyone who refuses to settle, play it safe, or follow the herd. As host of The New Man Podcast, he's racked up millions of downloads conducting interviews with extraordinary thinkers in business, personal growth, and spirituality. He lives a quiet, simple life with his wife and daughter near the beach in North Carolina.

Learn more at TrippLanier.com and TheNewManPodcast.com.