The Sober Creative Podcast

Jake Summers started drinking in high school in an alcoholic home where he “could basically do whatever I wanted.” He went to West Point hoping structure would save him from his addiction. It didn’t. He got kicked out at 21, went to rehab, and spent years drinking a fifth a day while working in finance—sneaking to the liquor store at 9 AM and drinking flask bottles in the bathroom at work.

After years sober, he quit his job and started a mango farm in Cambodia. Then he relapsed. His mom had to come rescue him. He came home and started over, this time building his entire life around his recovery instead of keeping it siloed from everything else.

Now he wakes at 4:30 AM to write in his basement, working on his memoir The Mango Tango and publishing Perfection is the Enemy of Progress, a newsletter for people living the non-traditional path.

This conversation explores the guilt-fear-shame cycle, what it means to relapse after years sober, and how to leave enough white space in the calendar for life to come to you.

Show Notes

[03:33] Growing Up in an Alcoholic Home

Jake grew up in a home where he could basically do whatever he wanted. He started drinking young, hosting parties at his house on Thursday nights, taking his mom’s car before he had a license. He loved everything about how drinking took away anxiety and made him feel free. But even as a teenager, he could tell he was drinking too much.

* Decided to go to West Point thinking structure might help him avoid addiction

* Did well initially until he got a DUI visiting his brother at Penn State

* Met all the “bad kids” at West Point—when addicts find their people, they’re back off to the races

* Spent three years there before getting kicked out

“I grew up in an alcoholic home. What that meant for me was not that I was surrounded by trauma at all times, but I could basically do whatever I wanted. I started drinking at a young age.”

[05:47] Losing His Identity and Drinking Even Harder

When Jake got home from West Point, he lost his identity. He thought he’d ruined his life. He started drinking even more heavily. He went to rehab at 21 but was quick to say he was “cured” and didn’t have a problem.

“When I got home, I was really like I lost this identity. I thought I ruined my life. And I started to drink even more heavily.”

[07:00] The Obsession: Every Day About Getting Alcohol

In sobriety, Jake learned that addicts have this obsession where even when they’re not drinking, they’re thinking about it—how to get the next one. Every day in high school was about planning how to ensure he’d get alcohol that weekend.

* Started as weekend hard drinking and a couple weeknights

* But the mental space the addiction took up was as significant as the actual drinking

* This obsession continued through his twenties

“In sobriety I’ve learned that I have, you know, we have this obsession where even when we’re not drinking we’re often thinking about it and how are we going to get the next one.”

[08:08] A Fifth a Day: Drinking Before Work

After rehab, things got really bad. Jake started drinking every day, waking up and drinking. He became what he thought was a stereotypical alcoholic—a daily drinker whose whole life and cycle was built around drinking.

* In his early 20s, drinking a fifth a day around the clock

* Taking his “medicine” in a couple different stretches throughout the day

* Meticulously planned and managed

* Working in finance, going to the liquor store at 9 AM when it opened

* Drinking flask bottles in the bathroom and going back to work

“I worked in finance and I would go out for a morning coffee and I would go to the liquor store at nine, right when it opened in Philadelphia. And I would drink like one of those flask bottles in the bathroom and then go back to work.”

[11:01] The Hardest Part to Describe: Knowing It’s Wrong While Doing It

Jake had already been to rehab. He’d already self-identified as an alcoholic. The hardest part of addiction to describe is how you can continue to behave this way while there’s a very quiet voice in the back of your head saying “this is dumb, this is going to head towards disaster, you’re not supposed to be doing this.”

* That quiet voice is drowned out by an extreme, very intense voice saying “I need this right now, I need my relief”

* Like having “a head full of recovery and a belly full of booze”

* Living in this middle state of knowing you have a problem but doing it anyway

* Really isolating and not fun at all—lying to yourself, lying to everybody around you

“The hardest part of addiction to describe to anybody from the outside is how you can continue to behave in this way while there’s a very quiet voice in the back of your head that is like, this is dumb. This is going to head towards disaster. But it’s just drowned out by this extreme, very intense voice of like, I need this right now. I need my relief.”

[13:17] The Guilt-Fear-Shame Cycle

Everything for Jake was rooted in fear. He was scared of facing the world, scared of his behaviors. Stuck in this shame bubble, drinking to silence guilt and shame that was all rooted in fear.

* Most addicts wake up every morning and the first thought is “I don’t want to drink today”

* That might be a 10-second thought immediately followed by drinking

* Every day knowing you need to do something different but ashamed of being stuck in this rut

* Feeling guilty over how you fell to your addiction the day before

* Scared it’s never going to resolve itself—stuck on that hamster wheel

“Everything for me was rooted in fear. I was scared of facing the world. I was scared of my behaviors. You’re kind of stuck in this shame bubble and it’s like you’re really like drinking to silence that guilt and shame that is all rooted in fear.”

[16:11] The Moment of Clarity: Sick and Tired of Being Sick and Tired

Jake had a rare moment of clarity where he looked around at his life and realized: I am lonely. I am miserable. I’m just sick and tired of being sick and tired and living on this hamster wheel of doom.

* Called somebody and said “I need help”

* Couldn’t seem to control it—every day telling himself he wasn’t going to drink but ending up drinking

* Asked for help and started getting involved in 12-step programs

* Did the steps and started to believe in a life in recovery

“I just had one of those rare moments of clarity where I looked around at my life and it was like, I am lonely. I am miserable. I am, I’m just like sick and tired of being sick and tired and living on this like hamster wheel of doom.”

[17:36] Four Years Sober and Heading to Cambodia

After four years sober, Jake was working his career but started realizing something. When he got sober, he associated his adventurous risk-seeking personality with his addiction. He thought that was the dude that gets you in trouble—you have to be the opposite of him. Wear a suit, go to work, live a stable life.

* Sobriety gives you confidence in yourself

* Eventually felt confident enough to do something adventurous without the wheels falling off

* Could be more of his authentic self without living in a protective bubble of routine

* Talked with people in his sober community who said sobriety isn’t about giving up on life and surrendering to structure

“Sobriety gives you like a lot of confidence in yourself. And I eventually just reached the point where I felt confident enough in my sobriety where I was like, I can do something adventurous and like the wheels aren’t going to fall off.”

[19:14] Relapse in Cambodia: Fermented Banana Moonshine

Jake started the mango farm and lived in the jungle. It was all going really well. Then he relapsed in this lost-in-translation moment on the farm where guys drilling a well were doing a ritual toast thing. They passed around a gasoline jug of fermented banana moonshine and said he had to drink it.

* Trying to explain alcoholism in a foreign language

* Had drifted away from his recovery—wasn’t talking to sober people, wasn’t helping anybody

* Thought he was cured, convinced himself “I could just have one and I’ll be fine”

* Like a real alcoholic, that was not the case—had one and was immediately off to the races again

* Nasty relapse in Cambodia, his mom had to come rescue him

* Got really bad really quick

“By that point, I had really like drifted away from my recovery. Like I hadn’t done anything to maintain my recovery. Like I wasn’t talking to sober people. I wasn’t helping anybody. I like thought I was cured and convinced myself like, oh, I could just have one and I’ll be fine. Like a real alcoholic, like that was not the case for me.”

[20:14] Starting Over and Building Life Around Recovery

Jake came back and started over from the beginning, really digging in with the program. He focused on putting sobriety first and not drifting from it. Went on to work in the addiction field to stay closer to sobriety, really building his life around his recovery.

* In his first stint in recovery, it was very siloed—had his career, aspirations, adventurous side, and then separately had his recovery

* Let enough distance get between those two lives that he put himself in a risky position again

* Second time around, built everything around recovery instead of keeping it separate

“In my first stint in recovery, it was very siloed. I had this career and these aspirations and this adventurous side. And then I had my recovery. And I let enough distance get between those two lives that I put myself in a risky position again.”

[21:36] Alcoholism is Progressive: It Picks Up Where You Left Off

The second relapse was a lot more intense. Alcoholism is a progressive illness, and it picks up exactly where you left off. If you have years sober, the clock doesn’t magically wind itself back and you’re not starting at the beginning.

* Even more intense shame and guilt when you have years sober and leave that behind

* Drinking while knowing he’d blown up this very good stretch of his life and the recovery he’d built

* Made the shame over what he was doing feel even more intense

“Alcoholism is a progressive illness, and it picks up exactly where you left off. Like, if you have years sober, the clock doesn’t magically wind itself back, and you’re back starting at the beginning.”

[33:46] The Creative Life: 4:30 AM and Playing with House Money

Jake wakes at 4:30 AM for a two-hour uninterrupted creative block before his wife and daughter wake up. From 4:30 to 6:30, it’s just him in the basement with music. He lights a candle, makes coffee, writes, and tries to avoid distractions and the noise of life.

* Sometimes working on Substack posts, sometimes editing or adding to the book, sometimes writing query letters for agents

* Has this sacred block in the morning that he protects

* If he sticks the landing in that time, the rest of his day is playing with house money

“I wake up at 4:30 and from 4:30 to 6:30, it’s just like me in the basement with the music and I light a candle and I make my coffee and I just write and I try to avoid distractions and the noise of life.”

[35:54] Straitjacket or Smoking Jacket: Leaving White Space

A sponsor once told Jake: You’ll either feel like you’re in a straitjacket or you’re in a smoking jacket in life. You really want to go for the latter. Don’t put yourself in a position where you’re constantly living in stress and constantly setting yourself up to fail.

* Thinks in terms of weekly goals, not daily to-do lists

* When he tried to structure things too much, he wouldn’t get things done and his inner critic became harsh

* Wakes up and prays: “I don’t know what the day is going to bring, but I’m going to let it come to me”

* Leaves enough white space in the calendar for opportunities to come to him

* By the end of the week, accomplished everything he needed to do plus more stuff he didn’t plan for that was really good

“I wake up and I pray and I’m like, I don’t know what the day is going to bring, but I’m going to let it come to me. So I definitely try to live my life in a day where I leave enough white space in the calendar for the opportunities in the day to come to me.”

Key Quotes

“When I got home, I was really like I lost this identity. I thought I ruined my life. And I started to drink even more heavily.” - Jake Summers

“The hardest part of addiction to describe to anybody from the outside is how you can continue to behave this way while there’s a very quiet voice in the back of your head that is like, this is dumb. This is going to head towards disaster. But it’s just drowned out by this extreme, very intense voice of like, I need this right now. I need my relief.” - Jake Summers

“I just had one of those rare moments of clarity where I looked around at my life and it was like, I am lonely. I am miserable. I’m just like sick and tired of being sick and tired and living on this like hamster wheel of doom.” - Jake Summers

“Sobriety gives you like a lot of confidence in yourself. And I eventually just reached the point where I felt confident enough in my sobriety where I was like, I can do something adventurous and like the wheels aren’t going to fall off.” - Jake Summers

“I had a sponsor, you know, one time tell me like, you will either feel like you’re in a straitjacket or you’re in a smoking jacket in life. And you really want to go for the latter.” - Jake Summers

Resources Mentioned

* Perfection is the Enemy of Progress - Jake’s Substack newsletter (@jakesummers3)

* The Mango Tango - Jake’s memoir (currently with literary agents)

* Pep Talks - Jake’s planned podcast series (coming sometime in 2026)

* 12-Step Programs - Jake’s path to recovery

* The Guilt-Fear-Shame Cycle - Treatment concept Jake learned working in the addiction field

Where to Find Jake Summers

Jake writes for people standing at the fork wondering what’s on the other side of the leap, people who’ve already jumped and are figuring out who they are now, and people in recovery from addiction, failure, or the story they told themselves about who they were supposed to be.

The Distance Between Recovery and Everything Else

Jake’s story reveals something crucial about sobriety: keeping it siloed from the rest of your life creates risk. In his first stint of recovery, he had his career, his aspirations, his adventurous side—and then separately, he had his recovery. He let enough distance get between those two lives that he put himself in a risky position again.

The second time around, he built his entire life around his recovery instead of keeping it separate. He went to work in the addiction field to stay closer to sobriety. He talked to sober people. He helped others. He didn’t convince himself he was cured.

This isn’t about making recovery your only identity—it’s about not creating distance between who you are in recovery and who you are everywhere else. The silos create gaps. And in those gaps, practices that sustain recovery—connection, honesty, service, accountability—begin to fade. When you stop talking to sober people, when you stop helping others, when you drift from the daily habits that keep you grounded, relapse finds room to grow.

The work isn’t just staying sober. It’s building the practices that make sobriety sustainable—integrated into your creative life, your relationships, your work, your identity.

Ready to Stop Living on the Hamster Wheel?

If Jake’s story resonates—if you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you’re realizing the quiet voice saying “this is dumb” is getting drowned out by the loud voice saying “I need this right now”—you’re not alone.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work. It’s not about structure for structure’s sake. It’s about building practices that sustain recovery while honoring your creative side—so sobriety isn’t siloed from everything else you’re trying to create.

This isn’t traditional recovery. It’s for those who want connection, accountability, and daily habits that keep you grounded while you build something meaningful.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Bob Lewis, Stan Holt, Noelle Richards, Eric J Cunningham, and to Jake Summers for his extraordinary honesty and wisdom. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The First 31-Day Alcohol-Free Reset has officially started!

If you missed this opportunity to join, there are going to be more coming this year.

Click the link below and enter your email in to be put on the waiting list.

🎯 Take the Drinking Assessment: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

☕️ Support the Sober Creative: If a subscription feels like too much at the moment but you’d still like to support the work here, you’re welcome to contribute in any amount. Consider it a coffee in support of clarity, creativity, and what’s being built at The Sober Creative.

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

For 32 episodes, I’ve sat across from creative professionals who’ve chosen sobriety and discovered something remarkable: clarity doesn’t diminish creativity—it unlocks it.

I’ve listened to transformation stories, watched people articulate what they couldn’t see while they were in it, and built a community around the idea that removing the fog reveals the work you were always capable of.

But I haven’t directly told you my story. Not really.

After a year of asking others vulnerable questions about their relationship with alcohol, I finally turned the mic toward myself. This wasn’t easy. But if I’m going to guide others through their transformation, I need to be willing to share my own messy, beautiful journey.

What you’ll hear in this episode is raw and unscripted. The childhood bullying that shaped my self-image. The depression that grew quietly through high school. The decades of using alcohol to escape feelings I didn’t know how to process. And ultimately, how I found my way to a place where my body finally feels like home.

This is my story. Not the highlight reel, but a glimpse into the real one.

Show Notes

[02:00] A Beautiful Childhood with Hidden Struggles

Growing up, my childhood looked perfect from the outside. Loving parents, lots of activities, good friends. I moved frequently—Sacramento to Florida to Kentucky and back—before finishing high school in Florida.

* Moving frequently taught me to adapt quickly and build relationships, though sustaining deep connections was more challenging

* High school brought bullying experiences that “nicked” me in ways I’m still unpacking

* Being called “Poindexter” by a friend’s peer created a lasting wound about not being capable or tough enough

* Looking back at photos from that time, I can see the unhappiness that was growing inside

* Depression began taking root, though I didn’t have the awareness to name it yet

Key insight: The experiences that shape our beliefs about ourselves often happen in moments we don’t expect, and their impact lasts far longer than the moment itself.

[05:00] Escaping Through Substances (Even When They Made Things Worse)

My relationship with drugs and alcohol started in high school, primarily smoking weed and drinking. The irony? Even though I used these substances to escape, they often made my anxiety worse.

* I remember smoking alone and becoming paranoid that the laughter from a late-night TV show was directed at me

* Despite the discomfort and nervousness, I kept using because I was trying to escape something deeper

* The pattern continued for years: asking “why do I feel this way?” while using the very things that made me feel worse

Key insight: We often continue destructive patterns not because they work, but because we don’t know what else to do with the feelings we’re trying to escape.

[09:00] The “Why” Question That Haunted Me

For years, I was stuck in a loop of asking “why do I feel this way?” I had a good life, supportive relationships, a great job. From the outside, everything looked fine.

* Our minds and bodies evolved to keep us safe from physical danger, but now they react to emotional threats the same way

* When uncomfortable thoughts arise, our bodies tense up, and we don’t know what to do with that sensation

* The cognitive awareness that comes with adulthood can become a burden when you’re constantly analyzing your own thoughts

* Drinking was my way of numbing the constant mental chatter and self-questioning

Key insight: Depression isn’t about having a “bad” life. It’s about not knowing what to do with the thoughts and sensations that arise, even when everything externally looks good.

[12:00] My First Drink and Family Estrangement

My older brother gave me my first drink. We’re now estranged and haven’t spoken in years, along with my parents on that side.

* This early introduction to alcohol set a pattern that would last for decades

* The numbing effect of alcohol became my primary coping mechanism

Key insight: Our earliest experiences with substances often come wrapped in complicated relationships that influence how we use them for years to come.

[20:00] The Career That Enabled My Drinking

Working in the film industry for nearly 20 years created the perfect environment for my alcohol use to flourish unchecked.

* The industry normalizes and even celebrates drinking culture

* Long hours and high stress made drinking feel like a natural “reward”

* Being surrounded by others who drank heavily made my own consumption seem normal

* I was a high-functioning alcoholic, which made it easier to deny there was a problem

Key insight: When your environment normalizes the behavior you’re struggling with, it becomes nearly impossible to see it clearly.

[25:00] The Turning Point: When I Finally Let Go

Five years ago, I made the decision to stop drinking. It wasn’t a dramatic rock bottom, but rather a quiet realization that alcohol was keeping me from becoming who I needed to be.

* I didn’t follow the traditional AA path, though I respect it deeply

* My spiritual beliefs center around nature and interconnectedness rather than organized religion

* Last year I discovered Recovery Dharma and now facilitate weekend meetings

* The decision to stop wasn’t about hitting rock bottom but about recognizing I wanted something different

Key insight: You don’t need to lose everything to decide you deserve better. Sometimes the quiet realization that you’re ready for change is enough.

[35:00] Finding Home in My Own Body

When asked where recovery happens, my answer surprised even me: place resides within. Recovery isn’t about changing your location but about making peace with yourself.

* This body, this container, is home

* Creating a place of comfort and ease within yourself is the work

* It requires support through therapy, community, and sometimes medication

* I was on Prozac for several years and came off it five to six months ago

* Having community support has been essential

Key insight: Recovery is about creating a home within yourself that you can feel comfortable and at ease in, regardless of external circumstances.

[40:00] The Power of Simply Listening

One of the most beautiful aspects of recovery communities is the practice of holding space without trying to fix or advise.

* In Recovery Dharma (like AA), people share and others simply listen

* There’s no cross-talk, no advice-giving, just witnessing

* When you hear someone else’s experience, you often recognize your own story

* The power isn’t in solving each other’s problems but in not being alone with them

Key insight: Sometimes the most powerful thing we can offer another person is our full attention without trying to fix, solve, or respond.

Key Quotes

“They nick you. You don’t know when they’re going to come, but they hit you. And it’s like, man, is that who I am? This nerdy guy that doesn’t know how to fight and is not capable.” - Josh Woll

“I just remember so many years just like asking why, like, why do I feel this way? Like my life is good. You know, I’ve got support, I’ve got friends, I’ve got great job.” - Josh Woll

“Place really resides within. This me, this container is home. It’s how does this place, like how do me living in my body create a place that I can feel comfortable with and ease with?” - Josh Woll

“It’s so beautiful to sit there and just listen to someone and, you know, that’s why I think it’s so powerful about community. You just listen to someone else’s experience and most likely you’ll experience something similar yourself.” - Josh Woll

Resources Mentioned

* Recovery Dharma: A recovery community that blends Buddhist principles with recovery support (described as “Buddha meets AA”)

* Prozac (SSRI): Mentioned as part of Josh’s journey with managing depression

* The Sober Creative Reset: 31-day program with daily email prompts, weekly meetings, and an awareness tracker

Where to Find Josh

* Clear Conversations Podcast: Interviews with professionals navigating sobriety

Ready to Do Your Own Deep Work?

If this conversation resonated with you, if you’re tired of asking “why do I feel this way?” while numbing the answer, there’s a path forward.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed specifically for people who are ready to remove alcohol as the barrier to their greatest work. This isn’t about powering through cravings or simply stopping drinking. It’s about the deeper transformation that happens when you finally create a home within yourself.

The framework follows three phases:

* RELEASE → Let go of alcohol and the stories that kept you stuck

* CREATE → Build new patterns and rediscover your creative power

* BECOME → Step into the version of yourself you’ve been avoiding

This is 1-on-1 coaching for those who are ready to do the real work. Not surface-level motivation, but the messy, vulnerable, transformational journey toward becoming a version of yourself you keep falling in love with.

Thank you

Thank you Dr. Amber Hull, Noelle Richards, Eric J Cunningham, and many others for tuning in. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The First 31-Day Alcohol-Free Reset has officially started!

If you missed this opportunity to join, there are going to be more coming this year.

Click the link below and enter your email in to be put on the waiting list.

🎯 Take the Drinking Assessment: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

☕️ Support the Sober Creative: If a subscription feels like too much at the moment but you’d still like to support the work here, you’re welcome to contribute in any amount. Consider it a coffee in support of clarity, creativity, and what’s being built at The Sober Creative.

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

Anna Gibson spent years on autopilot—smoking weed throughout her day, feeling the weight of a “demon on her back,” watching her writing disappear into unproductive fog. She knew she wasn’t doing anything. She’d smoke on the clock at her retail job. She’d look at her bag and see paranoia staring back. For someone who’d been writing professionally for over a decade, the creative paralysis was destroying not just her productivity, but her happiness.

Then something shifted. After discovering Josh’s newsletter, she made a decision that would transform everything. Today, over 60 days sober, Anna writes 3,000 words every morning—finishing entire articles before most people start their workday. She’s built “For the Masters: AI Creative Mastery,” a newsletter dedicated to helping mid-career creatives close the gap between the excellence they can see and the work they can actually make. But her approach isn’t about AI replacing creativity—it’s about using it as a thinking partner while protecting the authenticity that makes your work yours.

This conversation explores how sobriety creates the clarity necessary for deliberate practice, why removing what numbs us might be the most important creative decision we make, and what happens when you stop running on autopilot and start building work you’ll be proud of in five years.

Show Notes

[00:00] - The Demon on Your Back: Anna’s Story with Marijuana

* Anna’s substance of choice wasn’t alcohol—it was marijuana, legal and easily accessible in Michigan

* She describes addiction as feeling like “a demon on your back”—doing things you don’t want to do, experiencing paranoia, caught in a cycle of unproductivity

* Coming from a family with a history of drug issues, she was a “late bloomer” who started heavily after moving out three years ago

* The creative cost was devastating: she couldn’t work, couldn’t get it done, would smoke throughout her entire day

Key insight: “People don’t take it as seriously because it was weed, right? And for whatever reason, people don’t think it’s as bad, but it was literally destroying my happiness. It was destroying my productivity and it was destroying my life.”

[07:00] - The Immediate Transformation: From Fog to 3,000 Words

* Within days of getting sober, Anna went from creative paralysis to writing 3,000 words every morning

* She now finishes an entire article before most people start their workday

* The shift wasn’t gradual—it was immediate and dramatic

* Sobriety revealed that her creative potential had been there all along, just obscured

Key insight: “I write 3,000 words a morning now, which is insane. I literally finish an article a morning. Every morning.”

[11:30] - The Taste-Skill Gap: Why Mid-Career Creatives Get Stuck

* Anna identifies the core frustration of mid-career creatives: you can see what great work looks like, but you can’t consistently make it yet

* This isn’t a talent problem—it’s the taste-skill gap, where your refined taste outpaces your execution

* Most creatives at this stage either break through or burn out

* The gap doesn’t close through validation or understanding—it closes through years of deliberate, focused practice

Key insight: “You’re at the exact moment where most mid-career creatives either breakthrough or burn out. Virginia Woolf felt this at 33. Miles Davis felt this at 28. The difference wasn’t talent: it was which path they chose next.”

[15:45] - AI as Thinking Partner, Not Replacement

* Anna’s mission is helping creatives use AI without losing their authentic voice

* She teaches five core practices: gap audits, edge practice, constraint experiments, volume cycling, and reverse-engineering protocols

* The focus is on extracting frameworks from masters and building systematic skill development

* AI should augment craft, not replace it—it’s a tool for analysis and ideation, not for drafting

Key insight: “I don’t want your 30 years, 40 years, 20 years, 10 years, five years of experience creatively to go down the drain because you used AI and now you don’t know how to not use it.”

[21:00] - Finding Your Limits: The Authenticity Boundary

* Anna learned the hard way that letting AI draft for her stripped away her voice

* She experienced a crisis moment where she felt like she couldn’t write without AI after using it extensively

* Her personal boundary: AI never does first drafts—it has to be her from the start

* She now only uses AI for idea generation, prompt creation, and occasionally grammar checks (though even that can “take some sauce out”)

Key insight: “I am never again going to have AI do a draft for me ever first pass. It has to be me. And then from there, I kind of went to a stage where I allowed AI to improve my draft, but I still didn’t like the output. So now I just write it and I improve it on my own.”

[26:00] - The Hundred Prompts: Sobriety’s Creative Abundance

* Since getting sober, Anna has created over 100 AI prompts for creative development

* She’s building a library of tools to help others close their taste-skill gap

* Her Substack offers one free prompt per article, with more extensive prompts behind a $20/month paywall

* Future plans include opening a community space and offering one-on-one sessions

Key insight: “I’m sitting on probably like a hundred prompts being sober, just having more to do. I’m sitting on a hundred prompts and just waiting for the right time to send them out.”

Key Quotes

“It was literally destroying my happiness. It was destroying my productivity and it was destroying my life.” - Anna Gibson

“I write 3,000 words a morning now, which is insane. I literally finish an article a morning. Every morning.” - Anna Gibson

“I don’t want your 30 years, 40 years, 20 years, 10 years, five years of experience creatively to go down the drain because you used AI and now you don’t know how to not use it.” - Anna Gibson

“I am never again going to have AI do a draft for me ever first pass. It has to be me.” - Anna Gibson

“I’m sitting on probably like a hundred prompts being sober, just having more to do.” - Anna Gibson

Resources Mentioned

For the Masters: AI Creative Mastery - Anna’s Substack newsletter focused on helping mid-career creatives achieve mastery through deliberate practice and AI-enhanced learning

The Taste-Skill Gap Framework - Anna’s approach to understanding why mid-career creatives can see excellence but struggle to execute it consistently

Five Core Practices for Closing the Gap:

* Gap audits (identifying where the gap is widest)

* Edge practice (deliberate work at skill limit)

* Constraint experiments (forcing skill development)

* Volume cycling (building reps systematically)

* Reverse-engineering protocols (studying what you can see but can’t do)

AI Prompts Library - Anna offers free and paid prompts for creative development, including reverse-engineering tools and 2-week gap-closing plans

Where to Find Anna Gibson

Ready to Remove Alcohol as a Barrier to Your Greatest Work?

Anna’s story demonstrates what becomes possible when you strip away the fog and commit to showing up fully present. From creative paralysis to 3,000 words a morning. From scattered effort to deliberate practice. From autopilot to intention.

If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back—whether it’s alcohol, substances that numb your edge, or patterns you can’t quite name—you don’t have to figure it out alone.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day program specifically designed for creatives who want to unlock their full potential by removing alcohol as a barrier. Through personalized coaching, proven frameworks, and a supportive community, you’ll build the clarity and creative momentum Anna describes—without compromising your authenticity or waiting years to close the gap between the work you can see and the work you can make.

Curious about your next step? Let’s talk. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you Corie Feiner, Noelle Richards, and many others who joined us live for this conversation, and to Anna Gibson for her vulnerability, wisdom, and commitment to helping creatives build work they’ll be proud of. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The 31-Day Alcohol-Free Reset starts on January 1st.

If you want to see what your creativity feels like without alcohol in the way, this is your moment.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

☕️ Support the Sober Creative: If a subscription feels like too much at the moment but you’d still like to support the work here, you’re welcome to contribute in any amount. Consider it a coffee in support of clarity, creativity, and what’s being built at The Sober Creative.

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

Ryan Lee spent his twenties chasing numbness—ecstasy, cocaine, alcohol, repeat. He kept his corporate job intact, hit his numbers, and convinced himself everything was fine. But underneath the performance, he was stuck. Personally stagnant. Professionally functional but unfulfilled. Using substances to blur the edges of a life he didn’t actually want.

On March 14, 2021, Ryan found himself lying on an Airbnb floor, convinced he was dying from a heart attack. He wasn’t—it was panic from daily hard drug use. Two days later, he got sober. Not gradually. Not with a plan. Just done. He flew home, left his corporate job, spent 90 days learning to live without substances, and started the real work of figuring out who he was beneath the blur.

What happened next wasn’t a linear recovery story. It was a complete life rebuild that led him to create Capsule Adventures—a sober travel company that takes people to bucket-list destinations like Patagonia, Iceland, and Colombia. Not to prove sobriety works. To experience what becomes possible when you strip away the distractions and show up fully present. Ryan calls it “life in 4K”—choosing clarity and presence over grayscale sameness. This conversation explores how he built a creative business around that clarity, what it takes to replace old patterns with something better, and why the moments that stick are the ones you actually remember.

Show Notes

[03:07] The Stagnant Years: Drugs, Work, and the Performance Trap

* Ryan moved to NYC in 2016 and quickly started using ecstasy and cocaine alongside heavy drinking

* His life became a cycle: work, party, recover, repeat—convinced he didn’t have a problem because he was performing at his job

* The work “life raft” kept him stuck personally while he evolved professionally

* He didn’t realize how unfulfilling his corporate job was until after getting sober

[05:05] The Gift of Boredom: Relearning Who You Are

* Ryan describes early sobriety as having a “blank slate”—a chance to reexamine every facet of his life

* He had to relearn what he actually liked versus what he thought he liked when substances were involved

* The boredom people fear in early sobriety is actually an invitation to rediscover yourself

* Ryan started trying things he’d previously dismissed—like square dancing—and found joy in unexpected places

[10:48] The Georgia Hike That Changed Everything

* While traveling through the Svaneti region of Georgia, Ryan witnessed a trip derail due to heavy drinking, a foiled assault, and a fired guide

* Standing in front of an “unreal mountainscape” on Day 3, the idea for Capsule Adventures hit him

* He realized he was done compromising on the kind of experiences he wanted to have

* The concept: sober adventure travel where presence replaces performance

[11:55] Replacing Chaos with Joy

* Ryan initially thought sobriety meant the end of euphoric experiences

* On a trip through Colombia—gripping a mototaxi around mountain roads—he felt genuine joy again at 11 months sober

* The joy kept returning: clouds parting over Machu Picchu, standing on glaciers, starting fires with bare hands

* These experiences didn’t just help him stay sober—they brought color back into his life

[20:22] How He Curates Trips: The Magic Test

* Ryan travels constantly, always evaluating: “Would this make a good trip?”

* Most experiences don’t pass the test—they’re fun but not memorable enough

* The ones that make it have a “magic feeling”—places where everything converges and you feel honored to be alive in that moment

* Example: The Lost City in Colombia requires permission from indigenous people, includes a 1,200-stair climb and purification ceremony

[23:06] Type 2 Fun: The Hard Trips That Transform People

* Ryan’s Machu Picchu trip is his favorite—physically demanding and emotionally cathartic

* He’s witnessed more crying on these trips than anywhere else: people reaching summits and sobbing as they “come back to themselves”

* One woman went from apologizing constantly at the start to moving through the world with confidence by the end

* The stress is real (Ryan’s mustache literally went white in four days), but watching transformation makes it worth it

Key Quotes

“I had to relearn who I was and what I liked and what I didn’t like. And did I have passions for these things I thought I did? Or like, essentially I kind of just reexamined every facet of my life.” - Ryan Lee

“It’s such a gift to be able to be bored and to have this blank slate available to you.” - Ryan Lee

“I assumed sobriety meant that kind of joy was over. But then I replaced the chaos with something better.” - Ryan Lee

“When all these things kind of converge and hit you in the face—that’s when I’m like, okay, this could be a good trip. You just feel so happy and honored to be alive and in this moment and in this place with these people.” - Ryan Lee

“You can always look back on that experience and be like, this thing I’m going through right now that’s hard, this is nothing to this hike I did with these amazing people. So like, I f*****g got this.” - Ryan Lee

Resources Mentioned

* Capsule Adventures - Ryan’s sober travel company offering bucket-list trips to destinations like Machu Picchu, Patagonia, Iceland, and the Komodo Islands

* Reddit early sobriety communities - Where Ryan offers support and perspective on common challenges like boredom

Where to Find Ryan Lee

Website: capsuleadventures.comInstagram: @capsuleadventures

Ryan offers both challenging adventure trips (like the Machu Picchu trek) and more relaxed experiences (yacht trips through the Komodo Islands, beach destinations). Whether you’re looking for Type 2 fun or a chill vibe, there’s a Capsule Adventure that fits.

Ready to Remove Alcohol as a Barrier to Your Greatest Work?

Ryan’s story demonstrates what becomes possible when you strip away the blur and commit to showing up fully present. If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back—whether it’s alcohol, self-doubt, or patterns you can’t quite name—you don’t have to figure it out alone.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day program specifically designed for those who want to unlock their full potential by removing alcohol as a barrier. Through personalized coaching, proven frameworks, and a supportive community, you’ll build the clarity and creative momentum Ryan describes—without compromising your work or waiting years to figure it out.

Curious about your next step? Let’s talk. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Ryan Lee for his raw honesty about transformation and what it takes to build a life worth remembering. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The 31-Day Alcohol-Free Reset starts on January 1st.

If you want to see what your creativity feels like without alcohol in the way, this is your moment.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

☕️ Support the Sober Creative: If a subscription feels like too much at the moment but you’d still like to support the work here, you’re welcome to contribute in any amount. Consider it a coffee in support of clarity, creativity, and what’s being built at The Sober Creative.

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

What happens when you build an entire writing career in sobriety—placing 30+ pieces in major publications while navigating your daughter’s cancer treatment, solo parenting, and financial uncertainty? Elizabeth Austin shows us that the answer isn’t just about what you accomplish, but about who you become in the process.

Our conversation this past week, Elizabeth was 10 days away from her one-year sobriety anniversary, and she’s spent that year doing something remarkable: creating some of her most honest, vulnerable work while life refused to pause. Her essay “Happiness Is A Big, Ugly Sofa” landed in The New York Times Sunday Opinion pages. Her pieces on SNAP benefits, solo parenting, and “being the world’s worst cancer mom” have appeared in TIME, Harper’s Bazaar, McSweeney’s, and beyond. But what struck me most in our conversation wasn’t the impressive publication credits—it was her unflinching honesty about what it takes to show up to difficult material with complete presence when numbing out would be so much easier.

This conversation is about the specific challenges of getting sober in the arts, the discipline required to write while everything feels uncertain, and why community might be the most underrated tool in creative recovery. Elizabeth’s story reminds us that sobriety isn’t about losing your edge—it’s about finding clarity sharp enough to do the work that matters.

Show Notes

[02:04] The Path to Sobriety: From Social Drinking to Intentional Clarity

Elizabeth shares her journey from being a heavy social drinker in millennial party culture to making the decision to get sober during one of the most challenging periods of her life.

* Growing up in a culture where sobriety felt like “stale white bread lifestyle”

* The escalation from weekend partying to using alcohol as her only escape during her daughter’s cancer treatment

* The moment she decided not to bring drinking into her new apartment—along with not bringing cancer

* Setting rules for herself (”only on weekends”) as a sign she was losing control

[07:37] The Fear That Keeps Creatives Drinking: Will Sobriety Kill My Voice?

Elizabeth confronts the anxiety every creative faces when considering sobriety: what if alcohol is essential to my work?

* The pervasive fear that getting sober means losing your creative edge or becoming “boring”

* Why millennial drinking culture made sobriety feel impossible

* How the myth that “great artists are tortured and drunk” keeps people stuck

* The realization that you can write infinitely into any topic—sobriety doesn’t limit perspective, it expands it

[09:56] Writing Through Crisis: Cancer, COVID, and Creative Survival

What does it take to maintain a creative practice when your daughter is fighting leukemia during a pandemic?

* Using writing as a processing tool during the most traumatic period of her life

* How small, contained writing projects helped her maintain control when everything felt chaotic

* The specific challenge of writing about ongoing trauma while living through it

* Why she chose to write publicly about her daughter’s cancer despite the vulnerability

[14:15] The Discipline of Showing Up: Building a Full-Time Writing Career in Sobriety

After losing her job, Elizabeth made the leap to full-time writing—and placed 30+ pieces in 18 months, all written in sobriety.

* The mindset shift from “I need to write” to “this is my job now”

* How she structures her days to maintain productivity without traditional employment

* The role clarity plays in managing rejection and uncertainty

* Why she’s grateful to be sober while navigating the ambiguity of multiple book projects

[17:45] The Myth of the Drunken Genius: Rewriting the Artist’s Relationship with Alcohol

Elizabeth challenges the romanticized narrative that alcohol fuels creativity.

* Why the “tortured artist” trope is harmful and inaccurate

* How sobriety actually enhances her ability to access difficult emotions and write honestly

* The difference between numbing to get through hard material versus sitting with discomfort

* Why sobriety gives her stamina for the long-term work of revision and publishing

[21:30] Writing What Scares You: The Novel About Life Not Going as Planned

Elizabeth discusses her novel about a woman who dies, becomes a ghost, and has to reckon with a life that didn’t go as expected.

* Using fiction to explore anxieties about control and expectation

* The freedom of writing “just for fun” without publication pressure

* How her cancer experience shaped her understanding of life’s unpredictability

* Writing as a way to express anxiety rather than escape it

[26:25] Infinite Perspectives: The Creative Practice of Turning Stories

Elizabeth explains her philosophy that you can write into any topic infinitely—there are always new angles, deeper layers.

* Her daughter’s cancer as a “many-sided figure” she keeps turning and examining

* Why she helps other writers understand they’ll never “run out” of things to say

* The practice of zooming in and pulling back to find new entry points to familiar stories

* How sobriety supports the patience required for this kind of deep creative exploration

[29:12] Advice for Creatives Considering Sobriety: Find Your Community

Elizabeth’s biggest regret? Not connecting with other sober creatives sooner.

* Why she initially kept herself separate from the sober writing community

* The specific challenges of getting sober in the arts that only other artists understand

* How connecting with people a few steps ahead prepares you for what’s coming

* The importance of seeing that the path is worth being on

Key Quotes

“If there’s nowhere to physically or mentally go, I’m going to go into the bottom of a bottle. You have to go somewhere.” - Elizabeth Austin

“I knew after three months that this is it, this is my new life. And I was so happy. I was so relieved.” - Elizabeth Austin

“I’m of the mindset that you can write into anything infinitely... There are an infinite number of ways to tell a story. You can always go deeper.” - Elizabeth Austin

“I’m really glad I’m sober because I think I would be struggling to deal with the uncertainty of it all if I wasn’t.” - Elizabeth Austin

“Sober writers are so great. It’s such a great community. And sober creatives in general—it’s very tight knit, and there are specific things about getting sober in the arts that are specific to the arts.” - Elizabeth Austin

Resources Mentioned

* Writing Elizabeth (Substack newsletter)

* Elizabeth’s essay “Happiness Is A Big, Ugly Sofa” in The New York Times

* Publications: TIME, Harper’s Bazaar, McSweeney’s, Electric Literature, Narratively

Where to Find Elizabeth Austin

* Instagram: @writingelizabeth

* Website: writingelizabeth.com

Ready to Explore What Clarity Can Do for Your Creative Work?

Elizabeth’s story shows us what becomes possible when we stop numbing and start showing up fully to our creative practice. If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back—whether it’s alcohol, fear, or the belief that sobriety means losing your edge—you’re not alone.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work. It’s not about white-knuckling through cravings or following someone else’s recovery playbook. It’s about discovering what happens when clarity becomes your most essential creative tool.

If you feel you suspect your relationship with alcohol is keeping you stuck or you want to explore what intentional sobriety could unlock, this is for anyone ready to stop performing and start creating from a place of complete presence.

Ready to explore what’s possible?

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Elizabeth Austin for her extraordinary honesty and wisdom. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The 31-Day Alcohol-Free Reset starts on January 1st.

If you want to see what your creativity feels like without alcohol in the way, this is your moment.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

What if everything you’ve been told about discipline is wrong? What if the reason you can’t stick to your creative practice isn’t because you lack willpower, but because your body is protecting you from repeating a pattern it knows will end in shame?

This week’s guest on Clear Conversations understands this paradox intimately. Brian Maierhofer is a somatic therapist who spent years chasing creative dreams—first as an actor, then as a therapist and writer—while battling the substances he turned to when the cycle of hope, effort, and collapse became unbearable. His journey from eating a stick of butter in a closet at age five to finding cannabis at 13, through to calling his father from college to say “I need to get out of here,” maps the terrain so many creatives know: the search for a differentiated self through anything that promises relief.

What makes Brian’s work revolutionary is his understanding that we don’t fail at discipline because we’re weak. We fail because discipline as we’ve been taught it—force, punishment, “whipping yourself into shape”—triggers the very biochemical addiction to the hope-fear-shame cycle that substances were originally numbing. Real transformation, Brian discovered, requires witnesses who can hold the bigger picture when we lose sight of it, a relationship with something bigger than ourselves, and the courage to be what he calls “professionally human”: flawed, beautiful, and learning out of love.

Show Notes

[03:14] Growing Up in Colorado’s Music Scene: The Arena of the Absurd

Brian shares his early exposure to altered states growing up near Red Rocks Amphitheater, attending Phish concerts and jam band shows with his older brother.

* Cannabis became his “drug of choice” at 13-14 years old—it worked for him during a specific period when he was seeking a differentiated sense of self

* His first addiction was actually fantasy, with layers including food (hiding in a closet eating butter as a child)

* The substances made mathematical sense given what was happening psycho-emotionally at the time

[05:53] The Breaking Point: Two Weeks Into Junior Year

Brian describes the moment he called his father asking to leave college, unsure if he needed rehab but knowing “this isn’t working.”

* Spent three months in Arizona in an outpatient program before returning to Denver

* Entered traditional 12-step recovery at 22 years old

* Now in recovery for 12 years, describing recovery as “the best thing that ever happened to me”

* The transformation wasn’t just about putting down substances—it was about becoming a professional human

[09:45] Why We Put Substances Down: The Mathematics of Worthy Substitutes

Brian explains that we only release substances when we find something worthy to replace them with—and why that matters for understanding discipline.

* Substances worked as a function during a specific developmental period

* The search wasn’t for escape but for a sense of self that felt defined and separate

* Traditional discipline approaches fail because they don’t address the underlying need the substance was meeting

* Real change requires understanding what the behavior was providing, not just white-knuckling through withdrawal

[15:22] The Myth of Discipline: From “Learning Out of Love” to Military Punishment

Brian traces the etymology of discipline from the Latin disciplina (knowledge, instruction) and discipulus (disciple—to learn out of love) to its appropriation by Roman military culture.

* Modern discipline carries connotations of rigidity, self-denial, and masochism

* Phrases like “whipping yourself into shape” and “no pain, no gain” reveal our belief that change requires force and suffering

* True discipline is about becoming a student of your own compassion

* The body can feel the difference between force-based and love-based approaches

[19:30] The Biochemistry of Emotional Addiction: Why Willpower Isn’t Enough

Drawing on Candace Pert’s research, Brian explains how emotions create actual molecules (neuropeptides) in our bodies, making us physically addicted to emotional states.

* The hope-fear-shame cycle becomes biochemically reinforcing

* Breaking emotional patterns feels like withdrawal because neurologically, it is

* Your body creates receptors for repeated emotional experiences—craving them at the cellular level

* This is why simply trying harder or being more disciplined doesn’t work

“If perfectionism were a coin, shame would be on one side and control on the other.”

Brian explains that underneath perfectionism lies the internal monologue: “If I can do ALL the right things, I can get the right result, and then I’ll finally feel okay.” He calls this a broken promise of control and safety—and it’s why so many creatives reach for substances when the perfectionism inevitably fails.

[24:18] Carl Jung’s Complexes: The Multi-Generational Battle Against Your Best Intentions

Brian breaks down how Jungian complexes—individual, family, and cultural—hijack our decision-making, especially under stress.

* Individual complexes: Your personal history of success and failure

* Family complexes: Inherited patterns around reward, punishment, and challenge

* Cultural complexes: Societal beliefs about discipline and self-improvement

* When you try to exercise discipline, you’re battling generations of programming, not just your own resistance

[32:45] Why Recovery Can’t Happen in Isolation: The Axis of Power

Brian explains his concept of the “axis of power”—the relationship between personal agency and transcendence—and why alcoholism disrupts it.

* In active addiction, there’s often a fragmented sense of self—”two characters running the show”

* Recovery reintegrates and restabilizes the relationship between personal agency and transcendent power

* The 12 steps work as a recursive system, rewinding the psyche to close loops that didn’t close in adolescence

* Healing happens through “emotional corrective experiences with other people”—you can’t do it alone

[41:35] Spiritus Contra Spiritum: Why Alcoholism Requires a Spiritual Solution

Brian shares Carl Jung’s famous letter to Bill Wilson about alcoholism as a psycho-spiritual disease.

* Jung wrote that man’s thirst for alcohol is equivalent to his thirst for union with God

* The helpful axiom: spiritus contra spiritum—spirits versus spirits

* Recovery requires three things: a complete psychic and moral reappraisal, the loving hands of human community, and a healthy relationship to transcendence

* Alcoholism may pass genetically through epigenetic trauma, not genes

Key Quotes

“If perfectionism were a coin, shame would be on one side and control on the other. Underneath perfectionism lies an internal monologue that sounds something like this: ‘If I can do ALL the right things, I can get the right result, and then I’ll finally feel okay.’ This is a broken promise of control and safety.” - Brian Maierhofer

“I think I turned to substances because they worked for me for a period. And the mathematics of my life and what was going on with me psycho-emotionally, it makes sense that this was a function and something that I turned to.” - Brian Maierhofer

“We put something down when we find a worthy substitute. True discipline is about becoming a student of your own compassion—to learn out of love.” - Brian Maierhofer

“Certain emotions aren’t just psychologically addictive, but biochemically too. Breaking emotional patterns feels like classic withdrawal because neurologically, it is.” - Brian Maierhofer

“Recovery reintegrates and re-stabilizes that relationship between our personal agency and transcendent power. We’re literally rewinding the psyche to find those loops that didn’t close at 13, 14 years old, and we close the loop through emotional corrective experiences with other people.” - Brian Maierhofer

Resources Mentioned

* Candace Pert: Neuroscientist known as the “Goddess of Neuroscience,” discovered that emotions are actual molecules (neuropeptides) in the body

* Carl Jung: Swiss psychiatrist who developed the theory of psychological complexes and wrote about alcoholism as a psycho-spiritual disease

* Carl Jung’s Letter to Bill Wilson: Jung’s final thoughts on alcoholism, written six months before his death

* The Gift of Madness (Brian’s forthcoming book): Part memoir, part clinical experience exploring the archetype of the alcoholic—expected October 2026

* Somatic Psychology: Body-based approach to healing trauma and breaking patterns

* 12-Step Recovery: Traditional recovery framework that Brian credits with transforming his life

Where to Find Brian

Brian Maierhofer is a somatic therapist and writer exploring myth, madness, and meaning through his newsletter LiminalMeans on Substack.

Current Offerings:

* NeuroSomatic Cohorts: 12-week group programs with brain retraining and neuroplasticity work for chronic pain, illness, trauma, and anxiety (next cohort starts January 2026)

* Free 5-Day Somatic Program: Introduction to the five primary somatic skills Brian uses with every client

* Self-Paced Somatic Program: Affordable option for body-based healing (nearly 2,000 people have completed it)

Find Brian at LiminalMeans on Substack to explore his essays on addiction, consciousness, embodiment, and the philosophy of new-wave healing.

Your Next Step in Clear-Minded Creativity

If Brian’s story resonates with you—if you recognize that perfectionism coin flipping endlessly between shame and control, or if you’ve been numbing the discomfort of not living up to your creative potential—you’re not alone.

The truth is, substances don’t fail us because we lack discipline. They fail us because they prevent the very transformation we’re seeking. They keep us from the emotional corrective experiences that actually rewire our patterns. They block us from becoming witnesses to our own becoming.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed specifically for creative professionals who are ready to remove alcohol as a barrier to their greatest work. It’s not about willpower or white-knuckling. It’s about finding worthy substitutes—community, purpose, and the courage to be professionally human.

Because as Brian reminds us: we only put something down when we find something better. And what’s better than finally creating from a place of wholeness instead of fragmentation?

Ready to explore what’s possible?

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to The Monkeymind Meditation Club, Nick Neve, Noelle Richards, Eric J Cunningham, and many others for tuning into my live video with Brian Maierhofer! Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The 30-Day Alcohol-Free Reset starts on January 1st.

If you want to see what your creativity feels like without alcohol in the way, this is your moment.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

There’s a space between “rock bottom” and “business as usual” that rarely gets airtime in conversations about alcohol. It’s where most people actually live—questioning whether their drinking serves them, curious about alternatives, but not identifying with traditional recovery language or abstinence-only approaches.

Denise Hamilton-Mace has built her entire platform in that messy middle. As the founder of Low No Drinker and the podcast “Mindful Drinking & Moderation in Midlife,” she champions personal choice over rigid labels, serving what she calls “curious drinkers”—people who want to examine their relationship with alcohol without necessarily ending it. Her stance has gotten her both celebrated and rejected, including being uninvited from podcasts that couldn’t handle her nuanced approach to sobriety and moderation.

In this conversation, Denise shares her 24-year career in hospitality, why she never hit a “rock bottom,” how alcohol became invisible in her daily routine, and why she believes the most powerful creative work comes from knowing yourself deeply—which requires the kind of clarity that drinking, even moderately, can obscure. Whether you’re sober, sober-curious, or simply exploring what feels right for you, this episode offers permission to define your own path forward.

Show Notes

[00:00] Welcome & Introduction

* Denise has carved out a unique and controversial space championing moderation, curiosity, and personal choice over one-size-fits-all approaches

* She serves “curious drinkers” in their 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond who are cutting back, mixing it up, or wondering if there’s something better

* Her stance has gotten her both celebrated and rejected—she was uninvited from a podcast after rebranding to include “moderation” in her title

[02:45] Growing Up in London’s Drinking Culture

* Started drinking in mid-to-late teens in London parks with strong cider and cigarettes

* Despite throwing up at her first party, she discovered she was “really good at drinking and really enjoyed it”

* Got her first pub job at 18 and spent 24 years in hospitality—pubs, bars, restaurants, events

* She hosted events attended by the late Queen and worked everywhere from race courses to high-end venues

[06:45] When Social Drinking Becomes Invisible Habit

* Denise never had a dramatic “rock bottom” or crisis moment with alcohol

* After leaving hospitality and having children, drinking shifted from social to solitary—wine at home became routine

* The turning point: realizing alcohol had become invisible, automatic, and no longer a conscious choice

* She describes it as “doing things on autopilot”—the realization that she wasn’t present in her own life

[11:30] The Four-Month Experiment That Changed Everything

* Started with Dry January, extended it to four months to prove she could

* The first two weeks were rough—dealing with habitual cravings and social pressure

* Discovered she didn’t miss alcohol as much as she expected

* When she did drink again, she was shocked by how awful it made her feel physically

[15:15] Finding Your Own Definition of Success

* Denise realized she wanted control over her choices rather than having alcohol control her

* She didn’t want to declare herself “sober” or “in recovery” because those labels didn’t fit her experience

* The goal became drinking on her own terms—sometimes yes, sometimes no, always intentional

* She emphasizes there’s no single right answer for everyone

[18:00] The Toxic Binary in Alcohol Conversations

* Both the pro-drinking and anti-drinking camps can be judgmental and dismissive

* People who moderate get criticized from both sides: “not serious enough” for the sober community, “uptight” for the drinking crowd

* Denise refuses to apologize for her position anymore—she recognized more people feel the way she does

* The rejection she’s faced has actually strengthened her conviction to serve this overlooked middle ground

[20:30] How Clarity Unlocked Her Creativity

* In her hospitality career, Denise was repeatedly told “you’re not very creative”—and she believed it

* She internalized that message until she changed her drinking and launched a magazine

* Created, edited, designed and laid out 15 issues over two and a half years—all by herself

* Now channels all her creativity into her podcast and Substack writing

[26:00] Self-Knowledge as the Foundation of Creative Work

* Denise knows herself better in her 40s than at any point in her life

* She has more self-confidence and self-belief—not ego, but clarity about what she knows and cares about

* She may not have millions of followers, but she gets emails from people saying “are you in my brain?”

* The creative joy comes from expressing what she’s passionate about in ways that connect with others on their journey to “a life less intoxicated on their own terms”

Key Quotes

“I never had the sad story. I was never in recovery. So I was like, well, I’m not anti-alcohol, so should I have a voice in this space? And then I realized a lot more people actually feel a similar way to what I do.” - Denise Hamilton-Mace

“I know myself better now in my 40s than I have at any point in my life. I have more self-confidence, more self-belief. That doesn’t mean I’m some sort of big giant walking ego. There’s loads of stuff I don’t know. But the things that I do know about and that I am passionate about, I throw myself into it.” - Denise Hamilton-Mace

“This is not something I could have done if I was drinking the way that I was beforehand. I am able to absorb information, to get curious, to ask questions, to research things, to put it together in a way that feels authentically me.” - Denise Hamilton-Mace

“You never know who you might help with one article, one episode, one post, one comment—somebody just seeing someone that looks like them or sounds like them or has a similar story. I think that’s a really privileged position to be in, and I’m very grateful for it.” - Denise Hamilton-Mace

Resources Mentioned

* Mindful Drinking & Moderation in Midlife Podcast – 115+ episodes exploring the intersection of mindful drinking and midlife

* Low No Drinker Magazine – Created, edited, designed and produced by Denise over 15 issues

* 4-Week Midlife Mindful Drinking Reset – Denise’s program for people wanting to change their drinking habits

* Power Hour Coaching – One-on-one support for navigating alcohol decisions

* Dry January – The initial catalyst for Denise’s four-month drinking experiment

Where to Find Denise Hamilton-Mace

* Podcast: Mindful Drinking & Moderation in Midlife (available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major platforms)

* Website: mindfuldrinkinginmidlife.com

* Email: [email protected]

Ready to Unlock Your Creative Potential?

If Denise’s story resonates with you—if you’re sensing that something’s holding you back but you’re not sure what—you don’t have to figure it out alone.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed specifically for creatives who are ready to remove alcohol as a barrier to their greatest work. It’s not about deprivation—it’s about expansion. It’s about discovering what happens when you stop performing and start living.

Inside the program, you’ll discover:

* How to build unshakeable clarity around your relationship with alcohol

* Tools for sitting with discomfort instead of numbing it

* Strategies for navigating social situations without compromising your values

* How to channel the energy you used to spend drinking into your most meaningful work

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Denise Hamilton-Mace for her honesty, courage, and commitment to serving the overlooked middle ground. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of individuals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The 30-Day Alcohol-Free Reset starts on January 1st.

If you want to see what your creativity feels like without alcohol in the way, this is your moment.

Join the early list and I’ll notify you the second doors open.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

What if the thing you’ve been using to take the edge off is actually keeping you from the life you’re meant to live?

This week on Clear Conversations, I sat down with Tyler Donohue, the writer behind Girl Resting, for a conversation that challenges everything we’ve been told about creativity, confidence, and what it means to live authentically. Tyler’s journey from social drinker to nearly two years sober wasn’t sparked by crisis or catastrophe—it was driven by something quieter and more powerful: an inner voice that wouldn’t stop whispering, “This isn’t quite right for you.”

What unfolded in our conversation was a masterclass in listening to your body’s signals, the relationship between sobriety and embodiment, and why removing alcohol doesn’t shrink your life—it expands it. Tyler’s insights on creativity, self-trust, and building a life that’s entirely your own idea will challenge you to examine what you’re really afraid of losing if you stopped numbing the edges.

Show Notes

[02:01] The Inner Voice That Started Everything

Tyler shares how her sobriety journey began not with rock bottom, but with flickers of intuition starting at age 25-26 that something about drinking didn’t resonate in her body.

* She describes her drinking as “normal”—social, recreational, never causing obvious life destruction

* The turning point came in late 2023 when two family members struggled with severe alcohol addiction

* Seeing their crisis gave her permission to honor her own inner voice, even without the dramatic markers of addiction

* Key insight: “It doesn’t matter that you’re not in rehab. It doesn’t matter that you’re not getting DUIs. Something about doing this thing does not resonate inside your body.”

[05:22] The “F**k Yes or F**k No” Clarity

Tyler explains how sobriety eliminated the in-between spaces in her life and gave her radical clarity about where she wants to be and who she wants to be with.

* Sobriety revealed which social situations she only enjoyed because of alcohol

* She now operates on a binary: if it’s not a “f**k yes,” it’s a “f**k no”

* The shift: “I don’t stay at a party I don’t want to be at. I don’t go to events that don’t lift me up and give me energy.”

* Her life got bigger, not smaller, because she stopped forcing herself into spaces that didn’t serve her

[07:02] What Sobriety Revealed About Stress and Numbing

In the early months, Tyler became acutely aware of the moments when she used to “take the edge off”—and what those edges were trying to tell her.

* Removing alcohol exposed the stressors, anxieties, and uncomfortable truths she’d been avoiding

* The first six months were about sitting with discomfort rather than numbing it

* This led to major life changes: ending a long-term relationship, reevaluating her career, and eventually living nomadically

* Tyler’s realization: “Sobriety wasn’t the hard part. It was seeing clearly what I had been avoiding.”

[15:43] Writing as a Way to Process the Unraveling

Tyler discusses how her writing practice became essential for making sense of the massive transformations happening in her life.

* Writing helped her metabolize the grief, confusion, and liberation of leaving her old life behind

* Her essay “It Mixes Well with Pheromones” captures a pivotal moment one year into sobriety

* She writes to understand her own experience—and discovers readers resonate deeply with the honesty

* On vulnerability: “I’m just trying to be as honest as I can about what it feels like to be alive right now.”

[19:28] When the Body Remembers—and Forgets

Tyler reflects on how her body held the memory of her most difficult year, even as her mind tried to move on.

* Anniversary dates triggered physical responses before her conscious mind remembered them

* The disconnection between “that body” (sick, struggling) and “this body” (traveling, thriving) felt surreal

* Sobriety allowed her body to release what it had been holding

* Powerful observation: “My body did remember. But my body has also—somehow—forgotten. Release.”

[22:51] Creativity Without the Myth of Chemical Enhancement

Tyler dismantles the persistent belief that substances enhance creativity, sharing how her creative output has only expanded in sobriety.

* She’s more prolific now than when drinking—writing more, thinking more clearly, creating more boldly

* Sobriety revealed that alcohol was never enhancing her creativity; it was just making her care less about the quality

* The truth: “I think I was convinced for a long time that drinking made me more creative. But really it just lowered my standards.”

* She now has the stamina and clarity for deep, sustained creative work

[30:43] From Performative Confidence to Embodied Self-Trust

Tyler describes the shift from the “self-conscious confidence” she had while drinking to the genuine embodiment she experiences now.

* While drinking, she had confidence but was still posturing, wanting to be liked, performing

* Now she’s willing to do the silly, embarrassing things—like being first on the dance floor—without needing liquid courage

* The difference: “That confidence that I think I’ve had more innately from a young age has actually been able to bloom in a really beautiful way.”

* Sobriety allowed her innate confidence to emerge without the performance

[34:17] The Summer It Got Hard—and What That Taught Her

Tyler shares candidly about experiencing the first real difficulty with sobriety after 18 months—and what she learned from it.

* This past summer marked the first time not drinking felt actively difficult rather than just easy

* Working through those moments gave her even more clarity about her commitment

* She’s not attached to permanent labels or future predictions—just staying present

* Her approach: “It’s so much more about just staying really present to the moment I’m in and having that discernment and listening to the signals of my own body.”

Key Quotes

“It doesn’t matter that you’re not in rehab. It doesn’t matter that you’re not getting DUIs. It doesn’t matter that you’re not like ruining your life. Something about doing this thing does not resonate inside your body.” - Tyler Donohue

“For me, it’s either a f**k yes or it’s a f**k no. Like it’s one or the other. I don’t stay at a party I don’t want to be at. I don’t go to events that don’t lift me up and give me energy.” - Tyler Donohue

“I think I was convinced for a long time that drinking made me more creative. But really it just lowered my standards.” - Tyler Donohue

“My body did remember. But my body has also—somehow—forgotten. Release.” - Tyler Donohue

“It’s so much more about just staying really present to the moment I’m in and having that discernment and listening to the signals of my own body.” - Tyler Donohue

Resources Mentioned

* Girl Resting - Tyler’s Substack newsletter featuring essays on desire, creativity, relationships, and building a life that’s your own idea

* “It Mixes Well with Pheromones” - Tyler’s essay about smell, memory, and the terrible intimacy of wanting more (available on Girl Resting)

* The Cut - Where Tyler has been published by New York Magazine

Where to Find Tyler

Instagram: Follow Tyler for updates on upcoming magazine publications and more

Tyler is currently working on her first book—subscribe to her Substack to follow along with the journey.

If Tyler’s Story Resonated With You

Tyler’s journey illuminates something crucial: you don’t need to hit rock bottom to question your relationship with alcohol. Sometimes the most powerful signal is simply a persistent inner voice saying, “This isn’t quite right for me.”

If you’re sensing that alcohol might be dimming your creative edge, numbing your intuition, or keeping you from fully inhabiting your life, you’re not alone—and you don’t have to figure it out alone.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed specifically for creative professionals who are ready to remove alcohol as a barrier to their greatest work. It’s not about deprivation—it’s about expansion. It’s about discovering what happens when you stop performing and start living.

Inside the program, you’ll discover:

* How to build unshakeable clarity around your relationship with alcohol

* Tools for sitting with discomfort instead of numbing it

* Strategies for navigating social situations without compromising your values

* How to channel the energy you used to spend drinking into your most meaningful work

Tyler’s story shows us what becomes possible when we listen to our bodies and honor what they’re telling us. What might your life look like if you gave yourself permission to do the same?

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Tyler Donohue for her extraordinary honesty and wisdom. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of professionals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

The 30-Day Alcohol-Free Reset starts on January 1st.

If you want to see what your creativity feels like without alcohol in the way, this is your moment.

Join the early list and I’ll notify you the second doors open.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.

🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.

💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

What happens when partying stops being fun and starts becoming survival? Jason from The Monkeymind Meditation Club knows this turning point intimately. Eight years ago, he was the loudest voice at the bar, the first one ordering shots, the guy who’d party until morning without question. Two-day benders turned into three-day benders, then four. Until one day he woke up in London with no memory of how he’d gotten home, and realized he was sinking fast.

Meditation quite literally saved his life. Not the Instagram-perfect version with incense and perfectly aligned chakras, but the messy, real, accessible practice that meets you exactly where you are. Today Jason teaches meditation to people who don’t traditionally meditate, working alongside Jomo—the world’s first and only meditating monkey—to create what he calls “a quiet, playful rebellion” against a culture that never stops demanding our attention. His philosophy is beautifully simple: you feel what you feel when you feel it.

In this conversation, Jason shares how sobriety and meditation became inseparable tools for rebuilding his life, why he spent an entire day calculating his ikigai to confirm his calling, and how a velvet-vested puppet monkey helps heal parts of people they didn’t even know needed healing.

Show Notes

[03:29] The Breaking Point: When Fun Becomes Survival

Jason describes his descent from “work hard, play hard” to forgetting the work part entirely. His marriage had ended, his consultancy work fell apart, and he found himself in a corporate job he hated while drinking harder than ever.

* The pattern escalated from two-day benders to four-day affairs with no clear end

* Blackout drinking became normal—waking up not knowing how he got home

* People around him were increasingly concerned as his life spiraled

* He recognized he was using alcohol as a numbing mechanism rather than celebration

Key insight: “It was fun until it wasn’t” became Jason’s defining realization that something had to change.

[05:38] Finding Meditation: From Apps to Life-Changing Practice

Jason’s introduction to meditation started casually but quickly became transformative. He began with apps like Headspace and Calm, doing 10 minutes a day.

* Attended a talk by a well-known meditation teacher and immediately signed up for a weekend intensive

* Started attending group meditations regularly nine years ago

* The practice profoundly affected him in ways he couldn’t ignore

* His background in learning and development made him want to teach others

Key insight: Jason spent an entire day working through his ikigai (Japanese concept of life purpose) mapping what he could be paid for, what he loved, what the world needs, and what he’s good at. Everything converged on becoming a meditation teacher.

[08:02] The Problem with Meditation’s Image

Jason became increasingly frustrated with how meditation was portrayed in mainstream culture. When you Google “meditation,” you’re met with images that create barriers rather than bridges.

* Skinny white women in impossible yoga poses on clifftops

* Perfect bodies in perfect lighting that alienate most people

* The message: “You need to be this to meditate”

* This perception keeps people who desperately need meditation from trying it

Key insight: Jason realized meditation needed to be democratized and made accessible to people who don’t fit the Instagram aesthetic—especially those dealing with real struggles like addiction, grief, and overwhelm.

[13:45] Creating Jomo: The Universe’s Gift

The story of how Jomo came to be is almost magical. Jason wanted to create something warm, accessible, and non-threatening to guide meditations.

* Originally planned to use his own image but felt it wasn’t quite right

* His partner suggested a monkey—something playful yet wise

* A designer created Jomo with specific instructions: kind eyes with depth and soul

* The puppet was hand-dyed and crafted to exact specifications

Key insight: Jason believes the universe delivered exactly what was needed. Jomo heals parts of people they didn’t even know needed healing, creating a safe space that feels magical yet grounded.

[26:15] Meditation and Sobriety: Inseparable Tools

For Jason, meditation became the foundation that made sobriety sustainable. He practices 30-40 minutes daily, usually in the morning.

* Meditation helped him process the emotions he’d been numbing with alcohol

* The practice taught him to sit with discomfort rather than escape it

* He developed the ability to observe cravings without acting on them

* Meditation created the mental space to make conscious choices

Key insight: The Buddhist teaching of the two arrows—the first arrow is unavoidable pain, the second is the suffering we add by resisting it. Meditation helps gently lower that second arrow.

[32:40] The Relapse That Sealed Everything

After six years sober, Jason had one night of drinking. Rather than derailing him, it became the final confirmation he needed.

* He went out with friends and decided to have “just one drink”

* The experience wasn’t what he remembered or hoped for

* Rather than opening a gateway back to drinking, it closed the door completely

* He felt grateful for the experience because it removed all doubt

Key insight: Sometimes a relapse can be the best thing that happens because it eliminates the “what if” question and reinforces why sobriety matters.

[42:32] Rules for Sober Socializing

Jason developed specific guidelines that help him navigate social situations without alcohol.

* Always pay for your rounds (though friends now spot him for lime and soda)

* Leave when the first person starts slurring—that’s when everyone “clicks up a level” together

* Don’t stay once you realize you’re not on the same wavelength anymore

* The “Irish exit” (slipping out via the bathroom) is perfectly acceptable

Key insight: Jason noticed he’d become invisible in drunk conversations, like the zombies in World War Z that don’t attack people who are already “infected” with something. Once everyone reaches a certain level of intoxication, the sober person gets erased from the dynamic.

[45:04] Meeting Jomo: The Magic Made Real

The conversation concludes with Jason bringing out Jomo, revealing the physical puppet that guides thousands through meditation.

* Jomo is larger than expected, carefully handcrafted with poseable hands and feet

* His eyes were designed to have depth and soul—the most important feature

* Every detail was intentional, from the velvet vest to the thread matching his skin tone

* Seeing Jason and Jomo together in real time creates a rare, special moment

Key insight: Jomo represents the Joy Of Missing Out (JOMO)—a gentle rebellion against constant connectivity and the fear of missing experiences that don’t actually serve us.

Key Quotes

“It was fun until it wasn’t.” - Jason

“You feel what you feel when you feel it.” - Jason

“Jomo heals parts of us inside that sometimes we don’t even know needed healed.” - Jason

“The first arrow is the pain itself—unavoidable and devastating. The second arrow is the suffering we add by resisting that pain. Meditation helps us gently lower that second arrow.” - Jason

“When the first person starts slurring, that’s when I leave. Because I now know that everybody has just clicked up a level together and I’m not there.” - Jason

Resources Mentioned

Meditation Apps: Headspace and Calm (Jason’s entry point into meditation)

Ikigai: Japanese concept for finding life purpose through the intersection of what you love, what you’re good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for

Buddhist Teaching: The Two Arrows—a framework for understanding pain versus suffering

JOMO: Joy Of Missing Out (vs. FOMO)

Where to Find Jason

Social Media: Find Monkeymind Meditation on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok (primarily TikTok)

Jason offers live meditation sessions with recordings available to subscribers. Join the community for guided meditations, honest reflections on sobriety and anxiety, and the chance to meditate with Jomo.

Ready to Discover What’s Possible?

If Jason’s story resonates with you—if you’re sensing that alcohol might be holding back your creative potential or wondering what life could look like without it—you’re in exactly the right place.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed specifically for creative professionals ready to remove alcohol as the barrier to their greatest work. This isn’t about crisis intervention. It’s about transformation and possibility.

You don’t need to hit rock bottom to make a change. You just need to be curious about what clarity could unlock in your creative life.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Carína Brighid, Noelle Richards, and to everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Jason for his extraordinary openness and wisdom. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of professionals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

Derek MacDonald got sober, got broken up with, and moved across the country—all in the same week. Most people would call that rock bottom. Derek called it a foundation.

Four and a half years later, he’s the creator of Becoming Unobstructed, a newsletter and podcast reaching readers in 32+ countries. He’s published 450,000 words in 18 months—the equivalent of eight copies of The Great Gatsby. And he’s living proof that the choice between creativity and stability is a false one.

This conversation goes deep into what happens when you stop performing, start being honest with yourself, and discover that the things you thought made you “less than” were actually pointing you toward your truest creative expression. Derek’s journey from working three jobs in a Wyoming mountain town to building a thriving creative practice isn’t about hustle culture or overnight success—it’s about what becomes possible when you remove the obstruction of substances and get square with who you actually are.

Show Notes

[05:30] The Week Everything Converged

* Derek planned his sobriety date after multiple failed attempts, giving himself the illusion that “on this day I will get sober and my life will be beautiful”

* Reality hit hard: got sober, started a new job the next day, got broken up with, had to move out, and relocated across the country—all in one week

* His entire life in Wyoming was wrapped up in drinking culture: working as a snowboard guide, in the service industry, and doing freelance marketing/writing projects from sunrise to bar close

* The outdoor industry bonding mechanism was “let’s grab beers after we do some fun activity”—his social world and work world were inseparable from alcohol

[09:20] Running in Quicksand: The Tipping Point

* Derek describes feeling like he was “running in quicksand”—putting in massive effort but going nowhere

* He got “sick and tired of being sick and tired” and realized stopping drinking might let him actually see progress

* The breakup and move forced him to confront his relationship with alcohol without the safety net of his established social world

* Moving across the country became an unexpected gift: “I literally could not get a drink if I tried”—he had to start over completely

[15:45] The Spreadsheet That Changed Everything

* About six months into sobriety, Derek started tracking his habits in a simple spreadsheet to gauge happiness

* The act of tracking itself became a form of presence and mindfulness—he realized he’d been living on autopilot

* That spreadsheet evolved into a system, which became a business plan

* Three years ago: meditated every single day for a year. Two years ago: designed his business, website, newsletter, and podcast. One year ago: launched it all

[23:12] Discovering ADHD and Unmasking in Sobriety

* Derek learned he had ADHD as an adult—the “H” (hyperactivity) hid behind masking behaviors developed since middle school

* Alcohol became part of his masking toolkit: a way to fit in, cope with sensory overload, and navigate social situations

* Getting sober meant confronting the fact that he’d been performing for most of his life rather than showing up authentically

* Understanding his neurodivergence helped him recognize he wasn’t “broken”—he just needed different strategies

[28:40] Relearning Connection Without Alcohol

* Derek had to learn how to exist in a room full of people and connect without the social lubricant of alcohol

* His solution: focusing on things that genuinely excited him and letting people who enjoy similar things find him organically

* He stopped chasing career ladders and titles that he thought would compensate for what he “lacked”

* Sobriety revealed he’d been using professional achievements as justification for the parts of himself he didn’t like

[35:18] The MAP Year: Building Systems for Sustainable Creativity

* The MAP Year Project is Derek’s framework for helping people make room for both creativity and stability

* It’s built on his personal system of tracking, presence, and intentional design

* The philosophy: you don’t have to ditch your creative dreams to survive, and you don’t have to burn out to build something meaningful

* Core components include meditation, exercise, nutrition, sleep—foundational practices that increase confidence and life enjoyment

[38:12] Creativity and Sobriety: Permission to Just Do the Thing

* Derek used to think creativity was the opposite of stability—that he had to choose one or the other

* Getting sober and being honest with himself helped him realize he didn’t need to perform or chase validation anymore

* Writing had always been how he expressed himself, but he was embarrassed about it for years

* In 18 months, he’s published 450,000 words—eight Great Gatsbys—and had to confront the story that he “wasn’t a writer”

[42:56] From Proving You’re Creative to Opening the Door Wider

* Derek’s mindset has shifted from “trying to prove I’m allowed to be creative” to asking “what else am I limiting myself on?”

* Social media initially “fucked with his head” and brought him back to that early sobriety lesson: do it for you, not for what others think

* Falling in love with the process—not the metrics—has helped him find authentic connection with other creators

* Doing things that inspire us leads us to things that keep inspiring us

Key Quotes

“I just kind of reached a point where I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I was putting in so much effort to try to change my situation and move myself forward, but I wasn’t going anywhere. I felt like I was running in quicksand.” - Derek MacDonald

“My entire life was wrapped up in drinking and drinking culture. The problem was, to make that change [to sobriety], I had to uproot everything.” - Derek MacDonald

“I used to think that to choose things that would provide a stable life—stable income, stable relationships—meant I had to not choose creativity. It was one or the other. And I don’t think that’s true anymore.” - Derek MacDonald

“I always told myself I wasn’t a writer, and then here I am. I just wanted to start doing the thing. I was like, okay, I think I might be a writer. And so now the question is, what else am I limiting myself on?” - Derek MacDonald

“Getting sober and being honest with myself allowed me to understand why I had been chasing these other things—these career goals or ways that I thought would bring me fulfillment. I could let some of that go and embrace: hey man, you love writing and storytelling. You don’t need anybody else to give you permission. You can just go do that.” - Derek MacDonald

Resources Mentioned

* Becoming Unobstructed - Derek’s newsletter and podcast (theunobstructed.com)

* The MAP Year Project - Derek’s framework for navigating agency, grief, and creativity

* The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald - Referenced when Derek calculated he’d written the equivalent of eight copies in 18 months

Where to Find Derek MacDonald

* Website: theunobstructed.com

* Podcast: Becoming Unobstructed

Your Next Step in Creative Clarity

If Derek’s story resonates with you—if you’ve been running in quicksand, putting in massive effort but not seeing the progress you know you’re capable of—you don’t have to keep running alone.

Maybe you’ve told yourself the same story Derek did: that choosing creativity means sacrificing stability, or that building something meaningful requires burning out. Maybe you’re using alcohol to mask, to fit in, or to quiet the voice that says you’re not enough. Maybe you’ve been so busy performing that you’ve forgotten what it feels like to show up authentically.

Derek proved something essential: the choice between creativity and stability is false. But getting to that realization required removing the obstruction—the substance that kept him performing instead of creating, proving instead of being.

The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey designed specifically for creative professionals who are ready to remove alcohol as the barrier to their greatest work. It’s not about willpower or deprivation—it’s about building a life so compelling that drinking becomes irrelevant. It’s about discovering what becomes possible when you stop trying to justify who you are and start embracing what you actually love.

Derek wrote 450,000 words in 18 months once he stopped proving he was allowed to be creative and just started doing the thing. What’s waiting on the other side of your obstruction?

If you’re curious about what your life and work could look like with complete clarity, let’s talk. Let’s explore what’s possible when you stop performing and start creating.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Noelle Richards, Karen K and everyone else who joined us live for this conversation, and to Derek MacDonald for his extraordinary honesty and wisdom. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What’s Next

The Sober Creative is more than a newsletter—it’s a movement of professionals reclaiming their creativity by choosing clarity over coping.

🎯 Take the Clarity Quiz: This assessment reveals certain areas where alcohol may be the exact thing that is quietly sabotaging your creative potential. It’s free and only takes a few minutes.

✍️ Read the Essays: Stories and strategies for building a clear, creative, and intentional life.🎙️ Join Clear Conversations: Honest talks with creative professionals navigating the intersection of sobriety, self-discovery, and breakthrough work.💬 Curious about your next step? If you’re sensing that something’s holding you back, but you’re not sure what—reach out. Coaching, community, or clarity—it all starts with a conversation.

✨ The Sober Creative Method™ is a 90-day journey to remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

Each step forward is an act of becoming who you’re meant to be.

Thanks for walking this path with me.

Josh

P.S. Missed previous episodes? Browse the Clear Conversations archive to explore more conversations with creative minds in sobriety.

Transform your relationship with creativity and discover what becomes possible when you stop creating through a filter. Let’s explore that together.