The Sower

Josh Bowman talks with Albert Norton, a practicing attorney and author of several books on the tension between religion and postmodernism. His most recent book is The Discovered Self, just released, concerning what he regards as a dangerous inward turn to the therapeutic worldview. 

Our main topic is his 2023 book The Mountain and the River: Genesis, Postmodernism, and the Machine. Our conversation addresses themes of postmodernism, universals and particulars, ideology, totalitarianism, fascism, epistemology, Christian intellectuals in the church, and much more.

Bert’s substack, “Sir Toast” - https://albertnorton.substack.com/

The Mountain and the River - https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-River-Genesis-Postmodernism-Machine/dp/1943003815?ref_=ast_author_dp

The Discovered Self - https://www.amazon.com/Discovered-Self-Identity-Therapeutic-Age-ebook/dp/B0F1V4LL7B?ref_=ast_author_dp

Check out Bert’s reflections on the recent Ciceronian Society conference here: https://albertnorton.substack.com/p/the-ciceronian-society

Mentioned in this episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bees 

The 2026 Ciceronian Society Conference will be held March 12-14 at Creighton University in Omaha, NE. Panel and paper proposals are due September 1, 2025. To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction
4:00 Postmodernism
9:30 Moralistic Therapeutic Deism
14:02 The Mountain and the River
19:52 Differentiation
24:08 Balance 
33:04 The Machine
40:11 Fascism
44:03 Church & Zeitgeist
49:05 Tragic Sense
54:27 Discovered Self
58:13 Emotions
1:02:19 Need for Community

This episode continues a series interviewing our first ever cohort of conference fellows. Here, Josh talks with Sean Sirks, a graduate student at Virginia Tech and one of this year’s Nisbet Fellows. We discuss the philosophy of mathematics, numbers, metaphysics, and Shakespeare’s King Lear. 

Visit our website to learn more about our conference fellowship program, and come back in Fall 2025 to learn how to apply for our 2026 cohort of conference fellows. (https://ciceroniansociety.org/conference/conference-fellowships/)

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and to make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/  

0:00 Introduction

2:36 Philosophy of Math

7:51 The One and the Many

11:00 Cosmology

14:32 King Lear

17:25 Nominalism vs Realism

25:51 Reflections on the Conference

Josh Bowman talks with Jenna Robinson, president of the James G. Martin Center for Academic Renewal. We specifically address the Martin Center’s advocacy for reforming teacher education through public policy at the state level, and especially as it pertains to reading. We also hit on the philosophy of education, indoctrination, pedagogy, and the notion of “place” in the development of teachers. 

To read more from the Martin Center, visit: https://jamesgmartin.center/ 

As noted, the 2026 Ciceronian Society Conference will be held March 12-14 at Creighton University in Omaha, NE. Panel and paper proposals are due September 1, 2025.

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction

1:59 What the Martin Center Is

3:04 Blueprint for Reading

7:27 What Rousseau Gets Wrong

14:25 Philosophy of Education

23:18 Scientism, Contextual Knowledge

28:47 Purpose of Education

36:38 Indoctrination vs Education

44:25 Place and Teacher Education

49:45 Next Steps

Josh Bowman continues a series interviewing our first ever cohort of Ciceronian Society Conference fellows, talking with Nisbet Fellow T. Michael Wise of Sunbury, Ohio. Michael is a retired licensed funeral director completing his Ph.D at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in the Historical & Theological Studies Department under Dr. John D. Wilsey. His research interests are in the Antebellum, Civil War, and Reconstruction eras, particularly in the doctrines of providence and just war theory. Our conversation ranges over these topics, including the idea of Manifest Destiny and its eerie prescience for modern politics. We also discuss the role of scholars in the church.

Visit our website to learn more about our conference fellowship program, and come back in Fall 2025 to learn how to apply for our 2026 cohort of conference fellows. https://ciceroniansociety.org/conference/conference-fellowships/ 

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction
6:14 Manifest Destiny
10:26 Popular Support
16:12 Four Kinds of Manifest Destiny
24:17 Role of Intellectuals in the Church
27:29 Funeral Director
30:53 Ciceronian Society Mission

Chris Anadale interviews Rachel Ferguson about neighborhood stabilization, human scale, building social & racial trust, and causes for hope in the cities. Dr. Ferguson is director of the Free Enterprise Center at Concordia University of Chicago, an Affiliated Scholar at the Acton Institute, and a member of the Ciceronian Society advisory board.

Links to People, Books, and Organizations mentioned in this episode:

Rachel Ferguson links:

To learn more about the Ciceronian Society, our events, this Podcast, and our journal Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and to make your tax deductible gift, please go to: https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction

7:40 Scale

13:40 Place

17:56 Philosophy

24:31 Race

31:13 Resources

35:30 Trust

41:14 Hope

Josh Bowman talks with Theodore Madrid, a Ph.D. candidate studying politics at Hillsdale College's Graduate School of Statesmanship. This episode begins a series interviewing our first ever cohort of conference fellows. Theodore is specifically a “Nisbet Fellow,” and our conversation ranges over the work of John Carroll, Montesquieu, Adam Smith, religious liberty, and the role of commercialism and republicanism at the American Founding.

We also both mention, and strongly recommend, this related book: Our Dear-Bought Liberty: Catholics and Religious Toleration in Early America, by Michael D. Breidenbach. (https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674247239) 

Visit our website to learn more about our conference fellowship program, and come back in Fall 2025 to learn how to apply for our 2026 cohort of conference fellows. https://ciceroniansociety.org/conference/conference-fellowships/ 

Josh Bowman talks with John D. Wilsey about his new book Religious Freedom: A Conservative Primer (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2025) https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802881908/religious-freedom/, which will be released April 24, 2025.

John is Professor of Church History and Philosophy and Chair of the Department of Church History and Historical Theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. For a lengthier bio, visit: https://www.sbts.edu/faculty/john-d-wilsey/ 

We discuss Wilsey’s concept of “aspirational conservatism,” along with questions of religion and politics, nationality, the black conservative tradition, Russell Kirk, Peter Viereck and more.

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction

2:55 Background for the Book

7:01 Aspirational Conservatism

15:39 Peter Viereck

22:00 Black Conservatism

26:33 Conservatism and Religion

34:00 Conservatism and Nationality 

Josh Bowman talks with historian Richard Brookhiser, a senior editor of National Review ( https://www.nationalreview.com/ ) and a senior fellow at the National Review Institute ( https://nrinstitute.org/ ). He is a prolific author of many books, mostly on the American Founders and their ideas, and many other articles and essays besides.

We specifically discuss Brookhiser’s new biography of American painter, John Trumbull (1756 - 1843), entitled Glorious Lessons (Yale Univ., 2024) https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300283310/glorious-lessons/ 

Richard Brookhiser Website: https://richardbrookhiser.com/ 

Many paintings by John Trumbull are available online at the Yale University Art Gallery: https://artgallery.yale.edu/collection?f%5B0%5D=creator%3AArtist%3A%20John%20Trumbull%20%28American%2C%201756%E2%80%931843%29 

Declaration of Independence (painting)

https://artgallery.yale.edu/collections/objects/69 

Battle of Bunker’s Hill

https://artgallery.yale.edu/collections/objects/41 

The Resignation of General Washington

https://artgallery.yale.edu/collections/objects/124 

To learn more about the Herbert J. Storing Book Prize, and to make a nomination, visit:

https://ciceroniansociety.org/conference/storing-award/ 

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction

2:27 Who John Trumbull Was

5:53 Battle of Bunker's Hill

12:44 Spy Arrest

16:08 Jefferson's Wingman

18:26 Declaration of Independence

26:00 Washington's Resignation

35:23 Historical Painting

41:28 Displaced

45:23 Other Opportunities

Josh Bowman talks with Matthew K. Michels OblSB, who is a professional bookbinder and writer, and the owner of Black Cowl Bindery. He is also an Oblate of the Order of Saint Benedict associated with Saint Vincent Archabbey in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.

In addition to talking about the craft of bookbinding, we also discuss the idea of human scale, running a small business, common arts education, the trades, vocation, virtue, localism, Westerns, beer, and more! It's also painfully obvious that you're listening to two Midwesterners. 

Check out Black Cowl Bindery at https://www.blackcowlbindery.com/ 

We mentioned and highly recommend Matthew Crawford’s book, Shop Class as Soulcraft, though we apologize for getting the name wrong. (We said “shop craft” instead): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/301618/shop-class-as-soulcraft-by-matthew-b-crawford/ 

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/

0:00 Introduction

1:56 What a Bookbinder Does

5:48 How He Got Started

10:00 Common Arts Education

16:15 Why Tradesmen Should Read

19:36 Glorifying God Through the Trades

25:10 Small Business

34:17 Local Connections

39:31 Westerns and Masculine Virtue

46:55 Where to Learn More

Josh Bowman talks with Nick Ellis, Founder and CEO of Christian Halls International, whose mission is to “strengthen local communities by offering Christ-centered tutorial-based education that fosters intellectual, spiritual, and vocational formation.”

We discuss the idea of place, place-based education, the classical education movement, the future of universities, and more.  

To learn more about this exciting example of educational entrepreneurship, visit https://christianhalls.org/ 

Dr. Nicholas Ellis of Christian Halls International at TPUSA Faith's The Believers Summit - https://youtu.be/e2gHWgX3-jw?si=yFLIvHN_JWjvmY9v 

To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 

0:00 Introduction

2:10 What Christian Halls Is

20:42 Placeless Academics

27:35 Martial Arts Dojo Model

34:27 Define Place

42:20 Obstacles

47:48 Renewed Telos of Education

53:22 Next Steps