The Sprinkler Nerd Show

My Philosophy

"I do not choose to be a common man. It is my right to be uncommon if I can.

I seek opportunity – not security. I will refuse to be a kept citizen, to be humbled and dulled by having my state and nation look after me.

I want to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed – never to be numbered among those weak and timid souls who have known neither victory nor defeat.

I know that happiness can come only from the inside through hard constructive work and sincere positive thinking.

I know that the so-called pleasures of the moment should not be confused with a state of happiness. I know that I can get a measure of inner satisfaction from any job if I intelligently plan and courageously execute it.

I know that, if I put forth every iota of strength that I possess – physical, mental, spiritual – toward the accomplishment of a worthwhile task ere I fall exhausted by the wayside, the Unseen Hand will reach out and pull me through.

Yes, I want to live dangerously, plan my procedures on the basis of calculated risks, to resolve the problems of everyday living in a measure of inner peace.

I know if I know how to do all this, I will know how to live and, if I know how to live, I will know how to die."

H.B. "Pat" Zachry

Founder, H.B. Zachry Company

Sept. 27, 1901 - Sept. 5, 1984

A pioneer of a futuristic construction systems, first used to build Hilton Palacio del Rio.

Andy: Hello, all you listeners out there in podcast land. I hope everybody's having an amazing day after Thanksgiving. This episode is going out to the world on Friday, which is the day after Thanksgiving. So I hope everybody had an awesome, relaxing end of season, sort of speak in our world and a season day after Thanksgiving.

And this is, we're coming into a big week next week, which is the annual irrigation conference called the IA show. Technically it would be the irrigation association annual conference and at the conference, I will be. Not at a booth or anything formal, but demoing some technology that I've been working on for this last year, which is a long range wireless soil moisture sensor.

And if you are able to join us Tuesday evening, which is the night before the show, I will have plenty of sample. And for those interested to join the beta group, some beta devices. And I thought. What better way to prep for next week than to have another discussion with my good friend, Paul Bassett, who has been helping to advise on the development of the sensor [00:02:00] and, uh, the entire, uh, let's call it a project, the entire project.

So Paul, welcome back to the podcast. Oh,

Paul: thanks for having me, Andy. And I can't wait to be one of the first beta users and testers of of this technology. It's been something that our industry's been needing for. Since its inception. So this is going to be one of those technologies that hopefully everyone's going to embrace because it's now going to have the soil moisture sensing, right?

In the palm of your hands.

Andy: That's good in the palm of your hand. When, while he's saying Paul saying that I have one in the palm of my hand and what's pretty awesome too, is I would say you are one of our industry's beta testers. You know, there's a probably just a handful, maybe there's more than a handful, but there's a few people that have always had a liking to test new products and seek out new products in just that early adopter sort of way.

And you are definitely one of them. And this is not your first time, this will not be your first time beta testing soil moisture sensors because you've actually been testing them for, you know, 20 years at this point. At least

Paul: 20 years for sure. And I remember when, when baseline. First came out with their control system and their soil moisture sensors.

And I was ecstatic back then and still to this day on how the technology works. And I really like the taking the wired soil moisture sensor readings and converting it over to now a wireless reading, which is just phenomenal being able to transmit. Out of the ground, what the soil moisture is without a

Andy: wire and to be able to try to connect the dots, so to speak, in terms of hand.

No, it just rained. Let me quickly check my app and [00:04:00] see what that did to the soil profile, right? Or, you know, we adjusted some run times. I had the crew adjust some run times. Let me take a look at the app and see what that did to the moisture profile. I think that most of the time when we set a schedule on a controller, start time, run time, day of the week, it's an educated guess, right, using whatever tools we have ability at that moment in order for us to determine what the run time should be to apply the right amount of water.

But there is never been really a tool, I shouldn't say never, there are some, but there's not a universally available tool that anyone could use to then see the results of. What did that adjustment from 30 minutes to 45 minutes look like, or from one hour to 30 minutes? What is it actually doing to the soil?

There isn't a universal tool available that anyone can use easily and affordable to start learning.

Paul: And I like what, what you've done by taking on this particular project and Finding the latest technology that's available and using the, that technology and intertwining it with soil moisture sensors, specifically, most folks aren't really aware of, you know, how this frequency transmits and how it was received and how it gets moved from the device into the palm of your hand.

Why don't you tell us how that

Andy: works? Yeah, there's a stack. We won't go right now all into all the details, but there's a stack of of different technologies that when you stack it together, the data basically passes through the stack and it is delivered to you in the web browser on the phone or the computer.

So the device pings through a gateway, either private or public. Then it goes up to a network server and the network server passes it to an application server. Then the application server is what pushes it to the U. I. So one data point, one point of moisture has to pass through all [00:06:00] those little channels along the way in order for the user to then see it on their device.

And that's been, uh, I wouldn't say it's a challenge, but it makes what seems, it makes what seems so simple, actually quite technical under the hood. It is

Paul: very technical under the hood, Andy, for sure. And the way you describe it.

Andy: Yeah, and you gotta sort of learn each of those, each of those, you have to learn each of those, um, pieces of technology.

Because it's not just one of them. And so one of the things that I've done is, you know, gathered a group of people together, i. e. you as one of the advisors and, uh, and Nate as as an engineer, uh, and then a whole slew of other people that are sort of experts in their line of work. So it might be it's the network server developer, or it's the application server developer, or it's the hardware engineer, or it's the application developer.

Um, you know, designer of the actual, uh, capsule, if you will, the hexagon. So there's kind of had to have been a T there's a whole team that's sort of working on this project, uh, to move data from the ground all the way up to the cloud or right into the palm of your hand. And what I think is pretty awesome.

Is that where we, where we've landed started from an idea, you know, that you and I shared back in the spring where we kind of said, man, what would it, if sole moisture sensors were easy, what would that look like? And that's where we came up with this, you know, scan it, drop it, connect it. You know, you don't have to call anyone.

You don't have to activate anything. You can just. Scan it, drop it and connect it. And, you know, so what people will, we'll see is that that is the trying to make it easy for the everyday person has been our goal and both affordable, [00:08:00] affordable and easy for the everyday person. So you can just. Grab one out of your truck, scan it, drop it, add it to your account, and you're off and running.

Paul: Andy, it's phenomenal to hear that because it sounds like it's something that's been really needed in our industry to be able to have something this easy to deploy that it sounds like almost everybody could use it. It's not just for the professionals. Is that right?

Andy: That's that's the goal. You know, there are products out there that have 10 X 100 X.

The capabilities of what what I've been building because the The point of what I've been trying to build is something that's for everyone. Not something that is extremely scientific, not something that's research grade, not something that has to be connected to a control platform, but just a soil moisture sensor for the everyday user so they can have the tool to learn.

So they can have the tool to see what happens as a result of their watering patterns. And I really think that that's a missing, a missing piece is that we don't, we are not able to connect the dots on what happens when you apply the water. We apply the water and then we We imagine what happens to it, and then we make some assumptions based on the health of the plant material.

If the plant material is not healthy, then we make another assumption of I either over watered or I under watered, but we don't have a good tool to actually learn about the health. The application or precipitation rate, you know, and as it relates to the runtime on what you do. And so I think that, you know, somebody might say, I don't know really where I want to use this sensor.

It's like, well, just go put it somewhere and you'll quickly have some data that will make you more curious. And you'll want to put another one in another spot because you'll get even more curious and then you'll start bringing in more data. You'll start learning and then you'll become. Over time, a better [00:10:00] irrigator because you have the, you know, cause and effect, so to speak,

Paul: and, and to one of the things that I've learned through the knowledge lab that you've been working on is that, you know, this, this information that you're displaying, you're putting it in a way that It's easy for people to see it and understand it and ingest it.

It's not in major graphs and very hard to see. So that's one of the things that I've really been encouraged about by the way that you're displaying the information on the application.

Andy: Yeah. Again, right. It's gotta be easy and understandable and ideally in the palm of your hand, you know, the sensor in the palm of your hand and the data in the palm of your hand and I'm pretty excited about, uh, The level, let's see, how do I say this, the, I'm pretty excited about the level that the application is at for beta, you know, I think that, um, you know, a lot of products come to market as beta and they really are at level one, you know, maybe it's just one, just one graph and it's very simple, but what, uh, What the users will see in the, in the first beta launch is actually a lot of additional features in the software, um, such as notifications, users can set up an email notification that if the soil reaches a certain threshold equal to or greater than equal to or less than, et cetera, they can get an email notification, uh, right in the beta, in the beta version.

That is a good,

Paul: you're right. I did when you showed that to me, I was like, wow, I mean, it doesn't feel like it's irrigation technology. It doesn't, it's so much different in the way that you're able to bring it into the irrigation field, [00:12:00] um, with this technology is, is really astounding.

Andy: And that's, it's interesting that you mentioned that because technology by itself would not be for any one industry because the technology is simply the technology.

And so in this instance, it's about taking the technology that's available in the, in the greater world. But then applying it to our industry, using it.

Um, you know, such like, uh, for instance, if the user would rather not have an email notification, but would rather have that notification run into a slack channel that they're on. That's totally possible. You know, we can send a notification when the soil moisture sensor reaches a certain threshold and send that notification through slack

Paul: and forgive me for being one of the older guys on this call, but I don't use slack and I don't even know what it is.

Well,

Andy: you use Microsoft's version of Slack, which would be called teams. Okay. Uh, even though they're different, they're similar Slack, you know, predates teams, but, uh, you know, Slack is like, is like a chat communication tool with additional features and threads, uh, similar to Telegram. I know you use Telegram Slack would be similar and used by, you know.

Used a lot by corporate America now to message with, with teams and update teams kind of like in a, uh, more efficient way than sending emails, sort of speak. And then how does it? Yeah, another modern tool, I guess. That's why I'm

Paul: mentioning it. Tell me when you say that, because, you know, again, how does it interact with this, this slack?

What do you, how do you

Andy: set this? Yeah, I mean, the beauty of slack is let's say you've got a group of 20 people on a slack channel. And they can all be notified in Slack channel if the soil moisture reaches a certain point, right? So it's just, you know, there's a million different types of examples like that, uh, where you can take data from one source connected to another source.

[00:14:00] Um, yeah.

Paul: And when you're talking again, it doesn't feel like we're talking irrigation and that's what I like about what you're doing is you're bringing in technology that's not within the irrigation field and you're tying it into our application. So. That's another thing which really amazes me that you've done.

Andy: Yeah, cool. Thank you. It'll be interesting. I'm really curious to see what users, number one, do with it. Where do they want to put it? What do they, what do they learn from it? What, uh, you know, what light bulbs go off for them that they didn't know before? And... Those kinds of insights will be helpful in order to, uh, improve, you know, the project, improve the product, the project to figure out which areas, you know, maybe need more focus, both from perhaps the data collection perspective, but also so that I don't have to assume what the users want.

Because we need the users to use it to tell us, you know, the reasons and the places and what they need so we can build that.

Paul: Well, you know, the use cases that I've started understanding when, when you came to me with this technology was that, you know, when I have a bunch of controllers out there and I'm manning to them and, you know, we have rain sensors on, they're supposed to shut them down when it rains.

But we really. The settings aren't great, and you don't really have any feedback loop on those on the, uh, the rain sensor. Like, I don't know what the rain sensor set at. Is it a quarter inch? Is it an eighth of an inch? Um, and then sometimes we have to rely on remote weather stations, and I don't really ever find trust those when it rains or doesn't.

So I really needed the ability to understand how the water is being applied at the site level. And I need to know when it [00:16:00] rains, what does the rain do to the moisture that I can shut the system down? So that's where I've been extremely interested in in these devices, having that capability and insight.

Into what happens not only when an irrigation cycle applies the water, but what happens when it rains and how long does that take that rain to get to the moisture level in the soil that I don't need to operate my irrigation system.

Andy: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. I like just thinking about what you're saying. It's almost like, uh, those who are curious will really like.

We'll probably have a great experience with the sensor because it allows them to say something such as I wonder what happens when blank, you know, fill in the blank. I wonder what happens when it rained yesterday. What did that do? Which you don't have the visibility right now. Rain sensor clicks off, but it doesn't give you any data.

It's it's just a switch. But there's there's there's no data coming out of it. Speaking

Paul: of switches, I know you and I don't want to get ahead of myself because there's a lot of things that you talk about in your mind that goes on with With regards to what's next and what can you do, but I know you and I've had some discussions about, you know, having this sensor tie into a local like switch in the controller, like a rain switch where that you can suspend that.

irrigation cycle on the standard controller with a rain sensor type switch that connects directly to the application. Is that what I heard?

Andy: Right. Yep. Uh, yeah, we can hit that for a moment. So I think in any, as soon as, as soon as you have one idea and one idea becomes a product, then all of a sudden it unlocks more things.

Okay, great. We can measure the moisture, but then, well, how do we? Turn the controller off or keep the controller off. Well, we need something tied to the controller. Okay, what can we tie to the [00:18:00] controller? Well, we need some type of a receiver switch that can open and close the rain sensor terminal since that's the controllers, you know, external device connection.

So if we can open and close a rain sensor terminal, then we can. pause or suspend the controller. So, you know, the idea is, uh, and I guess I'll just share it is after, you know, after the, the, the hex moisture sensor is, you know, finalized beta, et cetera. Then the idea is to have a smart switch and a smart switch would be a universal controller adapter that can be used in combination with the soil moisture sensor or really anything else.

Potentially in the world that's connected to the cloud, whatever that device might be, we can connect it to our smart switch, I. E. And then connected to the irrigation controller. So you could suspend the irrigation for any other possible reason, because now the smart switch is connected to the cloud. So, yeah, keep your, uh, keep your eyes open for that one, guys, because that, that, the smart switch would work with or without a soil moisture sensor.

It may be the connection to the controller for a soil moisture sensor, but you could use it, you could just use it as a remote control off switch if you want. Now, now that I think about it,

Paul: well, Andy, I know, you know, all the things that you're thinking of there are extremely interesting to me, you know, I'm very curious with technology.

So I'm glad you're able to, you know, bring this to market, um, and take some of your ideas and it helped enhance and save water in the irrigation industry.

Andy: Yeah. Appreciate having the number one beta tester in my back pocket.

Paul: Well, I'm the one that's very curious.

Andy: Yeah, and so guys if you are curious and you're listening to this prior to the IA show it starts next week Uh, meet up with Paul and I, we're going to have, uh, you know, get some people together with OpConnect on Tuesday [00:20:00] evening.

Uh, and then again, you can join me at the baseline brew crew if you haven't registered for that on Wednesday. Uh, but Tuesday I'll have some, I'll have some beta units of the, of the sensor and the application. So if you want to get involved and participate and be curious and join in on the project. Would love to have you.

Yeah. Look forward to meeting anyone who wants to come out and say hello at the show.

Paul: Well, I'm anxious, Andy, for sure, to be able to get more of these out in the field and, and test them and see what's happening in my soils.

Andy: Cool. Right on. Well, thank you, Paul, for the little, uh, the little brain share, and thank you for your support and, uh, being a fantastic advisor, uh, to me and the project really appreciate it.

Paul:I'm probably your number-one cheerleader. There's no doubt about that.

Andy: Thanks, man. I'll see you. Next week and, uh, catch everybody else, uh, catch you guys next week on another episode of the sprinkler show. See ya

Happy Hour Invitation >>>>> Register Here

Podcast Reference: This Week In Startups Episode #1845

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Alex Wilhelm - You know, for a really long time, people looked down their nose at people who worked with their hands and those jobs were viewed as, as lesser. And even the whole blue collar white collar divide was, was not just class in the United States, but it was also, you know, kind of like a cultural cachet that, that, that were valued to jobs didn't have.

Uh, if we think about the power of digital technologies in a realm of generative AI, we're taking away the white collar premium. And oddly enough, pushing that back onto the blue collar jobs, there's a full circle element to this that I, that I, that I appreciate and find ironic that the computer guys got so smart, they took away their own jobs.

Andy Humphrey

Hey there, my friends. It's your host, Andy Humphrey. Welcome to episode 145. of the sprinkler nerd show. I'm super stoked that you're tuning in today. Just like to remind myself this super stoked you're turning into tuning in today because there is a whole universe of podcasts out there more than anyone could ever listen to in a hundred lifetimes.

There's a whole universe of podcasts out there. So the fact that you're hanging out here today. is pretty awesome. Thank you so much. And I hope that you are having an awesome day wherever you are listening from. And as I say that wherever you are listening from, tell me where you are listening from. I love making new friends with all of you guys.

So feel free to shoot me a text message. I'll give you my personal cell phone number here. It is two zero eight.

Send me a text message. Tell me where you are listening from. And uh, when you do text me, please add your name. Don't just say something like, hello, how are you? So I know that. Uh, you are not just a, another bot trying to, trying to sell me something because I do get a lot of spam text messages. So shoot me a text message, 208 908 3229, tell me where you're tuning in from.

Uh, let's see, you guys know that I love sharing. Stories and insights and sometimes even a few laughs here and there. And I hope that today's episode adds some good vibes to your day. I'm going to share a few things that I think would particularly resonate with anyone in the trades. Uh, community, which obviously would be the landscape and irrigation industry as a trade.

Um, and, uh, you know, if you are loving the vibes today, as I say that, you know, if you're loving what you hear, why not spread the good vibes with others, share it with your work buddies, share this episode in this podcast with your work buddies or anyone that you think might appreciate these topics, particularly anyone.

Who might be like you, who likes to think divergently. I mean, different. I mean, anyone who likes to question what it is they think they know, because at least that's what I like to do. Question what it is I think I know so that I can be curious, curious, curious enough to learn something new. Okay. All right.

Enough of this chit chat intro. Let's jump right into the heart of today's episode. Here we go.

If you are an irrigation professional, old or new, who designs, installs, or maintains high end residential, commercial, or municipal properties, and you want to use technology to improve your business, to get a leg up on your competition, even if you're an old school irrigator from the days of hydraulic systems, this show is for you.

So for today, I have three topics to share with you. Number one, something I heard recently that points favorably. To the future of the trades industry. Number two, an invitation to join me at the op Connect late night welcome party at the IA show. Number three, a technology platform that I've been building with two other team members for the past year that we will have ready for beta testing soon.

So, okay, let's start with the future of the trades industry, and in case you missed it. Missed it in the intro. I'm going to play this clip again for you, this really short clip, and I may play it a few times just to drill the point home. The computer guys got so smart they took away their own jobs. The computer guys got so smart they took away their own jobs.

The computer guys got so smart they took away their own jobs. Let me play it one more time. The computer guys got so smart they took away their own jobs. It's frickin awesome. I just think that this is an amazing concept. The computer guys got so smart they took away their own jobs. There's just something so ironic about that that it reminds me of these lyrics.

Now this is a story all about how My life got flipped, turned upside down And I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air My life got turned flipped upside down and that might be exactly what is coming for some people as it relates to a I their life is going to get turned flipped upside down because what they think what they thought they think what they think they thought they knew the value of that is changing.

The puck is moving. So some people's lives are going to get turned flipped upside down. However, the reason I say that trades rule. And that's kind of why I put that in this episode is because what really resonated with me and this episode, which I, you know, will link here in the show notes, what resonated with me is when Jason Calacanis predicted that the jobs that require the sort of like human hands or like, aka the trades, you know, plumbers, carpenters, anything that requires the trades will be more in demand.

And I think that it's sort of like the, you know, it's that flip happening. It's like the poles getting reversed when society at one time, uh, it's not that we When I say we, society, devalued blue collar jobs, we put this sort of false, um, pedestal under white collar jobs, aka going to college, aka getting a degree.

You know, I, we'll save my true thoughts on this for another podcast, but is, where is the value there if much of what is taught there can be and will be outsourced to another country? Right? Through the internet, remote workforce, or replaced by AI. Is that the, is that really where humans should put their value?

And what's really fascinating, flip that over, blue collar jobs, work with your hands. These types of jobs will be in more demand than ever. And he says six figures. So good news for you guys wanted to just play these quotes because as I listened to them in my day to day and the content that I consume when something It sticks out to me.

I want to share it with you and that one did because I think it looks bright for the future of the trades industry. Whether you work in the trade, whether you are a sole proprietor, whether you own the business and employ trades people, the entire trades industry looks positive. So let's play the entire quote from Jason Calacanis right now.

What are the safe jobs? Do you think in a world of AI, if you're 18 right now, listening to this, anything physical in the world, that's like a trade skill is going to be crazy. Like, you know, try getting a plumber, electrician, any of those jobs. So if you have the propensity, it's going to be a six figure job.

And I would say it's safer than the equivalent six figure job. You might get after 20 years of being a journalist, right. To hit six figures as a teacher or journalist is a 10 to 20 year journey, I'd say. And your job as a plumber, electrician, carpenter. Pick the trade will be higher. Excellent. Now let's move on to item number two on my list today.

And that is an invitation to join me at the op connect late night. Welcome party at the I a show up. Connect has generously. Scheduled a happy hour irrigation appreciation event on Tuesday, November 28th. So if you are listening to this and plan to attend the IA show, which officially I believe starts Wednesday trade show anyway, Tuesday night.

From 8pm to 9pm, we invite you to join OpConnect, Justin, Breck, you know, and myself at Rita's Riverwalk, Rita's Riverwalk, at 8pm Tuesday, November 28th, from 8pm to 9pm, and then I will sponsor the Late Late Night. Event, so if any of you guys stay past 9 p. m Then I'll take over from OpConnect and this will be the sprinkler nerd meetup sponsored event in the after party So join OpConnect, Justin Breck, myself at the IA show Tuesday night, November 28th, Rita's River Walk, just google that, I could give you the address, but just google it, it's Rita's, like Margarita, Rita, Rita's River Walk, San Antonio, Tuesday, November 28th, 8pm.

Would love to see you there. But this is my lead in to my third kind of announcement and that is about the technology platform that the three of us have been building for the past year, which eventually will be a very A comprehensive platform and there's multiple legs of the platform that range from analytics to control to monitoring and the first kind of public release of the technology is a long range wireless soil moisture sensor.

I'll pause for a moment. Yes, you heard that, a Long Range Wireless Soil Moisture Sensor Platform. And our platform has two parts. Number one is the hardware technology of the sensor, which has a, um, how do I say this? A shelf life, an installed shelf life of approximately five years. So we, we have engineered, manufactured an amazing product that measures the soil moisture at three inches and measures it at six inches.

It provides an average and the soil temperature. And we're building this at an affordable price because part of our business plan is what we are calling the democratization of soil moisture sensor technology. So we believe that. If you, why would you want to spend 800 on one soil moisture sensor, we believe that you should be spending 800 for at least 10 to 20 soil moisture sensors.

Because one, we want to, we want to get a lot of sensors out there because we want you to learn. We don't want price to be the barrier. We want to help the industry learn. How to water better, how to water more efficiently, to learn what runtime actually does. What does 30 minutes of runtime look like in your soil moisture?

And one of the only ways to do that is to build a product that is affordable, that can scale to the everyday user. Um, so we are excited to announce the release, the beta release of our brand new long range wireless soil moisture sensor platform that will be available to see at the first. You can see this first at the op connect happy hour on Tuesday, November 28th at 8 PM.

So if you come and you're excited about this, you can join our beta list and we could probably have you leave the show. with some product in hand. And when we say long range should be at least a mile, a mile, one mile. Pretty awesome. We want you to put sensors everywhere. We don't want wire to be the barrier or location to be the barrier.

We want you to feel. The freedom of putting a sensor wherever you want, okay? Now this is, I don't have more to share on this outside of that, but if you think about this scaling up to an analytics platform that has all of the data. We're talking flow data, pressure data, irrigation control. That is the sort of comprehensive platform that we are working on that incorporates the three legs of the stool, which is control, analytics, and monitoring.

And we are launching with the release of our H2 Soil Moisture Sensor, H4 Harmony, H4 Hexagon. You guys are going to love the way this thing looks. I'm so freaking excited and I can't wait to, I'm actually most excited to see how you guys use it. And that's why we want beta users because we'd like to know.

where you use it, why you use it, what is the data you want to see, what do you want it to do, so that we can improve the lives of the everyday irrigator, landscaper, and client. So. There it is. That's my, that's my third announcement is the release of our new technology platform, long range wireless soil moisture sensors that our hope is to democratize sensors.

Okay, so that's it for this episode. Thank you so much. I hope to see many of you. At the show coming up the week after Thanksgiving. And, um, if you don't, if you can't attend the happy hour, send me a text message again, 2 0 8 9 0 8 3 2 2 9. Happy to meet up with you. I'm going to be roaming the show every day.

Happy to meet up with you. Uh, learn about your business, what you're into. If there's anything I can do to help you, if you're interested in looking at our new sensor platform, happy to review that. with you as well. And again, thank you so much for listening. Please share this episode with a friend or another industry colleague, or maybe somebody else that you know, that's in the trades, that's not in irrigation or landscaping.

Maybe, you know, somebody that's just doing home construction or they're doing HVAC and you want to send them that little nugget about the future of trades. Share this episode. It would mean a lot to me. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend and we'll catch you on the next episode.

Welcome back to another episode of the Sprinkler Nerd Show. I'm your host Andy Humphrey. This is episode 144 coming to you on Friday, almost a live Friday. We're gonna get this one aired within the next two hours. So if you're listening to it on Friday, this episode is being recorded at 9.32 a.m. And I'm joined today by

My good friend, Paul Bassett, who joined me last week in my hometown of Traverse City, Michigan for the Iceman Cometh Race. Paul is a survivor. We may talk about that a little bit today, but while he was visiting, we had this idea to record an episode calling it kind of like Irrigators Top 10, and these would be sort of 10 facts that we should all have readily available in our mind at any moment without having to open.

a book. So we're going to kind of talk today about 10 things all irrigators and or landscapers who do irrigation should kind of just know. So Paul, welcome.

Paul Bassett (01:12.718) Oh, Andy, it's always good to hear from you and be with you and come up with these fantastic new topics to do a podcast on. As we were preparing this, I've been in the irrigation business 35 years, so you would think these would all be at the top of mind. As you go through life, sometimes you forget or you don't always use these calculations every day. So it was a very good reminder for me to be able to have these at the top of my fingers and be able to...

the pull them out so probably one thing we should do is text these outer get these the folks and you know have them put it on a screenshot and have it available.

Andy (01:51.774) Yeah, because I mean, really sometimes when you're in the field, you got to make changes to a design, or you want to run a quick calculation for a customer to run an estimate or an ROI. And you can't always just Google something and find it and figure it out or pull out your design book. And so we kind of thought there are some things. We tried to think of 10, of course, to make this episode a 10 list, which was actually kind of hard.

If you're listening to this and you've got other ideas, let us know because this was just a list that we put together kind of top of mind. And when we get started, you'll see that this list is, we're trying to make it sort of memorizable things versus concepts. But I think there are a couple that are concept based, but we really think that these are just sort of the, you know, if we were in school, these would be things you would memorize and there would be, and you would put on a test. You would be asked these questions and you commit them.

to memory, sort of like, you know, how many states are there in the United States? That would be a fact that you'd commit to memory that everyone would know. Just common knowledge. And so maybe that's what we need to call this, sort of like common knowledge facts that irrigators should have top of mind.

Paul Bassett (03:08.834) Or as you say with this particular topic, common knowledge concepts or constants. I even, constants, common knowledge constants in the irrigation industry. And all of these numbers and calculations that we're gonna discuss are all in tests that we've taken in the irrigation industry, whether it's a certified irrigation designer, contractor, and all of these are extracts from any of the textbooks that we've ever read.

Andy (03:15.834) Constance, right. Constance.

Paul Bassett (03:38.422) be a part of.

Andy (03:40.894) Mm hmm. So I think what we should do is, well, first of all, let me congratulate you on finishing the Iceman Cometh race. I'm really impressed because you didn't even hesitate when race registration opened. You signed up and this was six months prior. And this is no joke of a race 30 miles point to point in the woods with 5000 other riders and you just signed up without any hesitation. You flew your bike out to Michigan and.

Boom, you'd finished the race, so congrats, man.

Paul Bassett (04:11.358) Yeah, and it was super fun and I can't wait to do this. Hopefully every year for the rest of my life. I got the bug. It was good to hang out with you and all your friends in Michigan. And I am so excited about next year. I definitely going to do a little bit more training and hopefully my neck won't be as jacked as it has been this last year. So can't wait, dude.

Andy (04:33.09) Yep, anybody who's into biking that happens to be listening to this, check out iceman.com. And if you're interested, register and we will, you know, get a tent for us irrigators and throw a party in the woods in Michigan after the bike race. It'd be a heck of a lot of fun even if we just got two or three other people into biking. You want to come to Michigan and hang out next year with Paul and I in the woods for

Paul Bassett (04:58.422) Can't wait, man.

Andy (05:00.246) Okay, so I think that to kind of set the tone for this, I'm going to say the first one that I want to use to let people kind of understand what we're talking about. So here would be a for instance, you're on a project and you take a static pressure reading and then you see that there's a slope on the hill and it looks to be about 20 feet of elevation from where you took your static pressure reading to the bottom of the hill.

what is it that all irrigators should know about pressure as it relates to elevation that they should commit to memory so that if you take a pressure reading at the top of the hill, you can calculate what your pressure will be at the bottom of the hill.

Paul Bassett (05:47.882) Very good. And yes, this is definitely something, especially if you live, not necessarily in your neck of the woods, Andy, where it's flat and in Michigan, where you are.

Andy (05:56.238) Yeah, but even 10 feet, right? 10 feet to the eye over a distance can look flat. So, you know, many sites have elevation, even if it's only enough where you might need a check valve or something in a sprinkler. But using the what do we want to call this the constant of pressure due to pressure loss, or gain due to gravity, I guess is where I'm going with this would be the constant that everybody should know.

and I would say first and foremost they should commit like a half psi. If they can remember 0.5 psi that's the easiest one but then the actual number is 0.433 psi loss per foot of elevation or gained per foot of elevation.

Paul Bassett (06:46.038) And that's what I've always really put in my mind as I'm doing calculations is half a pound per every foot of elevation. And it makes it easier round. At least you got a little buffer, especially if nowadays, and I know I think you and I really going to talk more about the residential element on this to make it more simplified for people. But, you know, we do a lot of work in commercial and there's a lot that's happening in what we do with green roofs and got to get water to a top of a building. Now that's a hundred.

Andy (06:51.992) Right.

Paul Bassett (07:16.362) stories or whatever it is. So you're like, oh.

Andy (07:18.736) Even if it's six, right? Even if it's 30 feet or 20 feet.

Paul Bassett (07:22.338) I mean, it's a big loss, right? And, you know, we're going to need pumps to get the water pressure unless the building has a booster pump. So a lot of this has to do with making sure you overcome the pressure losses of elevation in your calculations so you don't get stuck.

Andy (07:35.034) Yep. And coming out of a pond, you know, a lot of municipal sites have, you know, secondary sources and a lot of times the pond are at the bottom of a slope. That because generally where you know, the water collects. So whether it's retention basin or a pond, you know, it's good to take that into consideration. What is the elevation of the pump? What is the elevation that it needs to get to? And you can quickly run that calculation by remembering, you know, one half pound of pressure for every foot.

of elevation, either gain or loss. So now that's an easy one. Probably all you guys listening, that's an easy one. But if not, just remember, half a pound of pressure and the actual number is 0.433, but a half pound will always cover you because it's a greater value than the actual value. Okay. So let's go to a second example, number two. Do you have one, Paul?

Paul Bassett (08:07.007) Easy way to do it, Andy.

Paul Bassett (08:30.166) I do. And this comes in a lot of times when you're on a property or you're with a homeowner and they say, well, how much water do I need to apply in my landscape in a given week? What do you do? Oh, let me run the math. Well, first of all, we need to know how big is your property. And one of the calculations that we use is how many square feet are in an acre. And this is something that we

We should all try to commit the memory so you know exactly how much water you need to apply, but you know, 43, 560 is that's how many square feet are in an acre and these are the numbers that you need to be able to have when you calculate how much water is being applied. So you can say, well, I have a half an acre of property. Okay. Well you divide, you know, the 43, 560 and half, and then that's your square footage and then well, how much water do we need a week? We're going to calculate one inch of week.

And then we should be able to determine from there how much water that site needs in a week. And you can tell your customer, here's how much you'll be expecting to pay in water per week in the growing season.

Andy (09:36.418) Now you just covered a whole bunch of shit. Not only the $43,560, but one inch of water, you know, breaking it down to square feet and then telling them how much that's going to cost. That is a whole episode right there. So I'm going to just make a note on that.

Paul Bassett (09:50.19) I did probably overwhelm. Yes, apologize on that.

Andy (09:54.006) Oh good, man, I love it. So 43,560 square feet in one acre. That's what we think is that you should commit to memory. How many square feet in an acre? And.

Paul Bassett (10:06.954) Yeah, and again, what happens too is like a lot of guys and gals are out here when we work in athletic fields, they're going to consume a bunch of water and they're a large area. So this is really where I first started understanding the square footage when we started doing soccer and football and baseball fields because you got such a large area, it's way more than a half an acre. So you got lots of acreage and the client wants to know how much water are we going to be putting down? How much do we need?

So that's where those numbers come in handy more specifically then, than when you're doing residential.

Andy (10:39.878) Okay, I think that then rolls into our third constant, which you kind of started alluding to when you said, you know, how much water is one inch, you know, for gallons. So I think the next thing that should be committed to memory is how many gallons is one acre inch, one inch of water over an acre. How many gallons is that?

Paul Bassett (11:07.498) And one of the things again, for those of us who haven't been into the irrigation show or the conference or taking classes, these are all things that, that like page one and two of our books that go through all these content and then they reiterate it throughout. And, and I think Andy, you did the same with our numbers that a half of a pound per foot will we know that the physical number of an acre inch is 27,154.

Who wants to remember 154 all the time is so hard. Is it 154? Is it 560? So Andy and I make it easy. It's 27,000 gallons. Just like a half a pound. Then that's about right. But it is the actual number is 27,154 and that's how many gallons of water it would take to cover an inch of land over one acre.

Andy (11:38.61) Mm-hmm.

Andy (11:45.834) Mm-hmm. 27,000 gallons.

Andy (12:01.686) Yep, so if your client has a half acre lot and they're just, you know, again using one inch as an estimate, this might be more, might be less, but annualized, let's just say it's an inch over half an acre, then you can take 27,000 gallons, divide it by two, right? You get 13,500 and that would be one inch of water for half an acre. So knowing those constants in your mind would allow you to do some quick math on the fly without opening up any design books.

Paul Bassett (12:31.714) And then why would you apply one inch of water? Where does one inch come from, Andy? Why would we apply an inch? Where does that come from?

Andy (12:39.484) Oh man, you're gonna test me in front of all these people listening?

It's the plant water requirement, right? On the average for, I believe, cool season turf, one inch of water per week. And then again, in the summer, based on the actual evapotranspiration rate, it could be an inch and a half or it could be more. And in the spring, it could be a quarter of an inch or one inch, but when you annualize it, that is the number one inch that is used for, you know, sort of quick math, if you will.

Paul Bassett (13:08.046) Well, you said a calculation or term in your discussion point here of evapotranspiration. What are the four things that create evapotranspiration?

Andy (13:19.954) Cool, well, let's make that our next, you know, not a constant, but the next sort of fact that every irrigator should know is what is ET, evapotranspiration, and then what you said, what are the four variables that make up evapotranspiration for climate, you know, weather variables that make it up. So we have air temperature.

humidity, wind speed, and solar radiation. So those... What's up?

Paul Bassett (13:57.386) Rainfall's not in that, Andy. Rainfall's not in that.

Andy (14:01.894) rainfall would be considered like the counterbalance. So rainfall is used to fill the bucket up, but those four variables are used to calculate the bucket depletion, if you will. So those variables calculate the depletion. Rainfall then fills it back up. So if you had one inch of depletion and you had one inch of rainfall, then you have zero.

The water requirement is balanced out. But evapotranspiration is just water loss. It doesn't have rainfall. Rainfall is just the added value to help estimate the water needed. But it's not a part of the actual evapotranspiration equation.

Paul Bassett (14:50.326) Excellent discussion point, Andy, because sometimes people forget that rainfall is not calculated in ET. It's also sometimes kind of hard to figure out where to get ET data from. It's not like we can go ping a source and we have it all over the country. You have to go find it and it has to be a good reliable source. I think more and more people are starting to...

Andy (15:14.031) Yeah.

Paul Bassett (15:16.822) give access to ET so it's becoming readily available for us.

Andy (15:22.09) It is kind of wild, you know, even when you think about all these smart controllers out there in the world, which when we say smart controller, that means many things to many people. There's really no good quantifiable definition of a smart controller, but it just amazes me that even on the screen, let's just take Hydrawise. Sorry, Hunter, I'm just using this as an example. On the screen of the Hydrawise controller, why doesn't it just show you the ET value?

Like we need to put that in front of people so that they understand why it's doing what it's doing. Show me on the screen what you know yesterday's ET is.

Paul Bassett (15:48.62) I know.

Paul Bassett (15:57.09) Very good suggestion, Hunter.

Andy (15:59.27) So, and Hunter, anyone, right? We should just put it out there. It's as important as how many gallons of water did I use yesterday.

Paul Bassett (16:08.718) Well, I know Andy, we've been kind of talking about some of the little more advanced constants in the irrigation, but let's talk about some that are a little bit easier, which folks really should know as well. And what we're going to do is there's a lot of different pipe types in the world. And we, you and I, when we did this discussion, we wanted to pick something that's a little on the simpler side. So for those who use poly pipe or HDPE.

forgive us, but we just chose schedule 40 PVC is our constant pipe type and it's going to be an average PSI 50. But you know, folks should know how much water does a one inch piece of schedule 40 pipe flow through at a standard pressure? I mean, because when you're out in the field and you're looking at how many heads are on a zone and you know the pipe size and you say, well,

What, why is there 20 gallons a minute flowing on this one inch piece of pipe? And I have absolutely terrible pressure because that pipe should only be running 13 gallons a minute. Now you have 20 and you gotta make an adjustment. You gotta fix it. So, you know, that's something that's really important for all of you listening out there. How much water can we flow through our pipe?

Andy (17:17.072) Right.

Andy (17:27.186) Mm-hmm. And we'll have to save this for another episode where maybe we talk about the concepts versus the facts. So you and I wrote down that we thought it would be important, again, mostly residential speaking to know the maximum flow rate for schedule 41 inch at 13 gallons a minute and the maximum flow rate for three quarter inch schedule 40 at eight gallons a minute. But the most important thing is to know how to find this.

where to look, how to find this, and that would be, you know, understanding a friction loss chart. And friction loss charts are in the back of every manufacturer's catalog, most manufacturers catalogs. And it's important not to exceed a certain velocity. So, you know, this will lead into the next sort of constant that we want to talk about. But the maximum flow rate is determined by the velocity

Paul Bassett (17:56.097) Yes.

Andy (18:25.286) the pipe such that it puts less stress on the fittings and less stress on the systems with water not moving as quickly through the pipe. And so we think that all irrigators should know what is the maximum velocity in feet per second that is used in these friction loss charts. So why don't you tell us what that maximum velocity should be?

Paul Bassett (18:50.838) Well, it's funny you say that because, you know, always handy for me is my book, constant book, that I have to reference all the time because I'm looking up charts. So when you look at, okay, well, we were gonna use one inch PVC, you go down in your chart book, you go, okay, well, what is the flow rate of it? And in all of the books and charts you see, it's five feet per second is the standard in the irrigation industry of how

fast that you're going to move the water through the pipe to ensure that the fittings aren't damaged, the valves aren't damaged, you don't have excessive pressure and water hammer. So five feet per second is what's going to allow us to get our 13 gallons a minute through our schedule 40 PVC.

Andy (19:38.054) right five feet per second. Five feet per second guys five feet per second. What's so fascinating too is when you look at friction loss charts, the friction loss going from like a one inch pipe to an inch and a quarter pipe when you're at that five feet per second is a big deal. You might go from three psi loss per hundred feet to you know or to one psi loss per hundred feet by upsizing

And it's a great example of how faster moving water creates a lot more friction loss. Going back to your point, Paul, if you're running twice the volume of water that you should be through a size pipe, your velocity increases tremendously, which then causes there to be a lot of friction loss. And that's why you put too many heads on a zone. It just doesn't balance out and you get poor performance because of all that friction loss.

Paul Bassett (20:38.474) And I've seen this way too often in the 30 some years that I've been doing this. The client goes, why isn't my sprinklers working properly? What is going on? Do I need a booster pump? No, we need to split the zone. Well, what's that going to cost? Right? You always hear that. Well, I'm sorry, but you know, somebody tried to get away with doing something that they shouldn't have, and now you need to split the zone and out of out. We don't need a pump. We just need to split the zone. And the thing that we're trying to really encourage here is, you know, just do the math.

Andy (20:50.917) Yeah.

Andy (21:02.159) Mm-hmm.

Paul Bassett (21:07.358) It's not that hard. We all have smartphones They can easily go in and plug in some numbers and calculate what you actually need to put on a zone

Andy (21:14.69) Yep. And we know that the smartest irrigators listen to this show. So we know that you guys understand what we're talking about. But what we really want is for you to know, and we think that you do, you know, why? Because we still, there are still installers out there that if you were to ask this question, how many heads can you put on a zone, they're going to say, I put four rotors on the zone. Why? Well, because that's what my boss told me to do. Well, do you know why? Nope, my boss just says four heads on his own.

but they don't know why there's four heads on a zone. And so that's the most critical thing is to understand the concepts so that you can decide if you're gonna put two or if you're gonna put 20, because you know why and then you know how, and then you understand the entire hydraulic, you know, makeup of the system.

Paul Bassett (22:02.862) Well, Andy, what if a customer says, hey, man, my water bill is excessive this past summer because they get billed every quarter. And then they say, can you take a look at our water bill? And they send you the water bill and the water bill, the municipality measures the water in cubic feet instead of gallons, which is a lot of times through most jurisdictions is their water meters measuring cubic feet.

And then you got to do the math to figure out, well, what the heck? How many gallons is that? And this, so there's a few constants that are in there that all of us, irrigators must know when we are analyzing a water bill or we get measurements in cubic feet. And so what do you think those are, Andy?

Andy (22:45.074) Mm-hmm. Yep, well, because I just asked Google, and we know that's what you guys would do and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I use Google all the time to run conversions, but knowing that one cubic foot, one cubic foot, one box, right, one box of water is 7.48 gallons. 7.48 gallons, and then I think some meters.

Paul Bassett (22:55.094) zero.

Andy (23:13.118) also record in 100 cubic feet or the bill may come in the form of 100 cubic feet. So then you can just take 7.48 times 100 and you get 748 gallons in 100 cubic feet.

Paul Bassett (23:27.67) And you see, we see that all the time. I mean, you and I run math and looking at utility bills and going, ah, man, these guys with their cubic feet again. But I've seen a lot of municipalities now are making it a little more simplified where they actually will do the conversion for you on the utility bill to show you. Here it is in cubic feet and here it is in gallons so that you don't have to do the math, which is, you know, better for us folks in the U S

Andy (23:47.034) Mm-hmm.

Andy (23:50.866) I know. It makes you wonder why it's like that. It's one thing. I mean, I understand because that's what the meter records it in. So that's what they reported in. But the benefit to the utility is that a lot of consumers don't understand what that means. They don't even know what their water bill is. They don't know how many gallons they're using. So they don't even know if they're using the right amount because those numbers don't mean anything. But you know, it would just be easier if they turned it into what people recognize gallons on every water bill.

Paul Bassett (24:10.219) Right.

Paul Bassett (24:19.786) Well, I think, Andy, from what I recall, that back in the day, way before you and I, that all this water was measured via agriculture. And agriculture used the cubic feet because they had big canals, they had big reservoirs, and the reservoirs were all measured that way. So as we started putting meters on things, that was the simplified form back in the day to be able to do it in cubic feet.

Paul Bassett (24:49.802) measured in gallons. But that is really the reason why it's in cubic feet, not to think that the municipality is trying to pull one over on you or think, you know, we don't know what we're doing. But it was really an old agricultural calculation done back in the day.

Andy (25:02.822) And then to just mechanically on the meters, if it was gallons, you would need a few more number, a few more dials, you know, to because the number is going to be a lot bigger. So you may need a couple more zeros, you know, on the meter reading to actually read that high right of a volume.

Cool, okay, well staying in water, this one is related to irrigation, but it's more of just knowing about water. It might relate to irrigation when it comes to how much a cistern might weigh when it's full of water, but I think it's nice to understand the actual weight of water in terms of how heavy, what does one gallon of water weigh?

Paul Bassett (25:47.954) And not only should you know it here, but when you go pick up a gallon of milk, okay, well, how much does that weigh when you got to carry it, or if you want to carry two gallons of milk, but it also really relates to the pressure that particular amount of water weighs when it creates pressure. So when you're talking an inch or a foot of water, it creates a certain amount of weight that then creates pressure.

Andy (26:14.77) Mm-hmm.

Paul Bassett (26:14.966) So all of us should know that a gallon of water is 8.34 pounds. Or for us easy mathematicians, it's about eight pounds. So it's eight pounds. Yeah.

Andy (26:22.798) eight pounds. Yeah. Yep. Again, it's just nice to know about water moving water moving water in motion. What does water way just good to know some water values.

Paul Bassett (26:33.31) And then, you know, I think this is the one constant that inspired this whole episode really was, you know, we were doing some calculations on, you know, how much does fuel in an airplane weigh? Because you got to do weight balance and your wife said, oh, fuel is 6.1 pounds. I'm like, wow, fuel is less than water. That's because water is 8.3. So, you know, fuel is, ah, this sounds like a great episode, Andy. Let's

Andy (26:46.052) Right.

Andy (26:54.65) Makes sense. Yeah.

Andy (27:00.47) No wonder water no wonder fuel floats on the top of water. I think it does anyway. So all right, well, I think we got our last one here, which is actually more of a concept because these values can change. And so what we thought is that, you know, every irrigator should know the general precipitation rates of drip sprays and rotors.

And again, this has a range, but knowing the precipitation rate of those devices is really important as it relates to scheduling and to understand the reason why you zone things separately, because that's sort of the foundation of zoning things separately outside of the plant material is you want to have the same precipitation rate of all devices on

one zone. So what should we use for general precipitation rates of drip spray rotor?

Paul Bassett (28:09.522) What I've always done when I calculate things is, again, I try to make it simple for me as well. So sprays, I've always used the constant of an inch and a half. And then rotors is about a half an inch. And then drip is somewhere between another half an inch, right? So...

Andy (28:28.962) Yeah, and that's the drip is kind of the craziest thing because I still, it is still very common and popular for contractors to install 0.9 by 12 inch spacing, right? Inline drip, whatever the brand might be, 0.9 by 12. And they don't realize that is an inch an hour, 0.9 by 12. Actually, I think it's even more than that. But then they'll say, yeah, drip, I usually set my drip zones for about 45 minutes because it comes out slowly.

And it's like, well, not at that flow rate in spacing. It doesn't. And that's where Drip, that's where some misnomers are because you could also use a 0.26 by 18 inch spacing. And now you have a pre-sip rate that's more like 0.3 and you should run it a lot longer. Where Drip, you gotta really understand what you're doing because the range is so different. But I think, like you said, generally, it would be more like 0.4 or so, 0.5.

Paul Bassett (29:28.354) I mean, but for this particular discussion, again, we're trying to just make it some simple rules of thumb, sprays and half an inch an hour, I mean, inch and a half an hour, sorry, and then rotors half an inch an hour. And that way you can easily do some simple calculations. Sure, it's going to vary depending on spacing and pressure and whatnot, but, you know, we're just looking for simple concepts here.

Andy (29:47.31) Yeah, yeah. And, you know, Paul and I spent some time thinking of these things and getting more than 10 seem to be pretty difficult. But sometimes you just can't see outside of the things you've already thought of. So if you're listening to this, and we missed some, let us let us know what you commit to memory. And that you think other irrigators and landscapers should know that are those facts that just commit to memory. Because I'm sure we missed lots and lots.

All right, well, I think that covers it, Paul, for these constants. And we got a couple other ideas for a couple future episodes. I really think we should talk a little bit more about giving your customer a water cost analysis. And I would just have to bet that not even one in 100 proposals, new installation proposals, comes with a water cost budget or analysis.

Paul Bassett (30:45.954) Probably not. I mean, you know, the challenge with that is when we buy refrigerators now and washing machines and laundry machines, they all come with what they anticipate that we're going to spend in our energy on these. You know, why can't we do the same here with irrigation? It's not that hard. And it would show your customer you care more about them than the final number at the end of the page that you care that.

Andy (31:01.742) Right. Yep.

Andy (31:10.394) And you know what you're talking about and that you're considering the operational costs of the system. And again, if they're getting a quote, either maintenance quote or new construction quote from three contractors, I bet you your competition isn't doing it. So another great way to stand out is to put together that, you know, cost analysis, operational cost.

Paul Bassett (31:31.35) Great nugget from this podcast right there, everyone.

Andy (31:35.014) Cool, okay, that's the opener for the next episode. Paul, thank you for brain sharing with me today. Love doing that with you, so thank you.

Paul Bassett (31:43.754) can never get enough of doing it as well.

Andy (31:46.926) Right on guys. Thank you for listening. Please share this episode with a friend or share it with your grandmother. And like, subscribe, and we'll catch you on the next episode.

Paul Bassett (32:00.95) Be a Andy. Have a good day. Bye.

Andy (32:01.787) Bye bye.

The race is on to set the mood for today's episode, which is about competition. I'm going to talk about competition because I've had a few suggestions that maybe I should talk a little bit about some business strategies. Maybe at some point, we'll talk about finances, P& L, balance sheet, estimating.

But in this episode, I want to talk a little bit about sales and we will talk more about sales in future episodes. But I think today what I want to do is talk about. competition, and how, how you speak about your competition. Do you speak about your competitors? When do you speak about your competitors?

Should you speak about your competitors? Because, uh, you know, in the landscape industry, there's oftentimes not a lot of sales training and the way that a lot of us handle. Our competition isn't always very strategic. It's oftentimes unprofessional. Yet, Um, we tend to, when I say we, my observation is that a lot of you get tied up thinking too much about your competitors, which also affects the way you price and market your company, your products, your services, et cetera.

So today I'm going to dig into how to speak about your competition, how to frame your competition, and how to position yourself and your competitors in this episode.

If you are an irrigation professional, old or new, who designs, installs, or maintains high-end residential, commercial, or municipal properties, and you want to use technology to improve your business, to get a leg up on your competition, even if you're an old school irrigator from the days of hydraulic systems, this show is for you.

Okay, here we go. So I think I'm going to use just my own personal experience, um, helping to build the baseline company, uh, specifically because, you know, way back in the day when, when I was first introduced to baseline, which was. 2004 or 2005, they, they didn't, they didn't have any salespeople. It was just the founders, a couple of engineering, manufacturing people, and a, you know, sort of receptionist, uh, accountant, a bookkeeper, if you will.

That was it. There were like five people, you know, and then, and then we, we grew the company. But, uh, at one point there, nobody knew who Baseline was. Nobody knew really amazing emerging technology. Nobody knew who the company was. So the various sales situations, that I was a part of, there was only competition because nobody knew, who I was.

And I'm going to try to make a couple of analogies as we go through this, but I want to start by saying there's a difference between being the existing leader in the space, the biggest. competitors versus being the incumbent small, let's call it startup company, whether that's a manufacturing, a distributor or retailer, a contractor, whenever you're starting out, you're kind of that smaller emerging player.

So depending on who you are, when you're listening to this, you know, keep this in mind because there might be some strategies that you want to deploy. If you are the small and emerging, and there might be some cautionary words if you are the biggest players. So when I say the biggest players, let's just say Rain Bird, Toro Hunter.

Transcribed Uh, for instance, in, in our industry, or if it, as it relates to contractors, you know, maintenance contractors, perhaps Brightview is a big player. And then, you know, Joe's, uh, Joe's landscape maintenance that's starting up is the, is the incumbent. So just keep that in mind as we go through this.

But I want to start by saying that in the most general sense, I tend to, and I guess me, my, my thought is to, when you talk about your competition, try to talk about them without naming them or naming their particular product or their particular company. If you have to talk about your competitors, you don't have to talk about them by name.

And there are a couple of reasons why this is beneficial. And instead of talking about them by name, I think it's better to look at kind of the entire landscape. Uh, and if you are a startup tech company bringing, let's say some new estimating software or design software to market, you might be, you might be addressing the entire United States or perhaps the entire world.

And if that's the case, what you want to do is, is look at that entire. market and then put your competitors, put the existing competitors into buckets and there's some real benefit to this. So put your, put your competitors into buckets. And again, if you're, if you're servicing the entire country, you want to look at the entire landscape of the United States.

If you're serving a local market, you want to create, uh, your, your buckets based on that local market. So, I'll point out that these buckets may not exist. You, get to create the buckets. And You want to create buckets that frame your product exactly where, or your service, your business, your company, you want to use buckets that frame your business exactly where you want to be positioned and by positioning, by, by creating these buckets exactly where you want to position your, you are also creating, uh, you're framing your competitors into those buckets.

This is not what your competitor thinks they are. This is where you get to say, you get to create these buckets and you get to educate your, your, your, your customer about the market, about the buckets, what the different, um, you know, the full landscape looks like without talking by the competitor by name or their feature by name.

You're just kind of giving the lay of the land. Companies that are like type A, and companies that are like type B. And so let me give you an example of what I would do. Um, at baseline, so instead of speaking about the competition, what I would do is I would create buckets that would speak to baseline's kind of core benefit while also kind of planting the seed so that if the customer were to speak with, let's say, Rainbird, Rainbird would not have the capability that I just positioned.

Even though I didn't say Rainbird, I would create a bucket and position Rainbird in that bucket or I would create a bucket and position Baseline into this amazing bucket so that if they were to speak with Rainbird, Rainbird wouldn't have that particular feature. So something like this You know back, let's say around 2010 I would say something like one of Baseline's core benefits is that We are a technology company, and because of this, we focus a hundred percent on modern web architecture, modern web performance, right?

And, and building a technology platform that plays nicely with modern web performance. Your IT department and an example of this would be our web-based interface. You can access baseline software Using any web browser. There's no software to purchase no software to load on your machine or update and We consider this to be the new standard Okay?

So there's the bucket. The new standard that I created, that I framed, which is modern web platform, web based interface. And the reason that I would say this is because at the time, 2010, Baseline was the only company So instead of saying something like, Yeah, we have a web based interface. Instead, I would position it as a technology company with modern web architecture.

We consider this to be the new standard in the industry. Okay? Now, by saying that, you know, plant the seed that That web based platform is the future web based platform is the new standard so that if the if that client happened to go talk to a competitor and have a discussion about web based platforms, the competitor would not be able to wouldn't wouldn't have that doesn't have that capability, which, you know, puts them in that in that bucket.

We'll talk about how what we what we also kind of call that. But how I like to think of that is that you create the narrative. You get to, you know, tell the story, paint the picture, create the narrative of what the market looks like, what the region looks like, what the, you know, how irrigation is performed in your city, your market, you get to create that narrative.

So your customer doesn't create their own story or their own narrative. So I would say something like, you know, we, this was, you know, me and my baseline days, we are different than traditional. Irrigation manufacturers that major in plastic manufacturing for blank reason. We are different than legacy manufacturers that major in blank.

Okay. Because. You know, who wants to be considered if you're buying a piece of technology, do you want to be, you want to, do you want to be framed as a legacy company or a traditional company? So those are kind of two buckets that I would create. Never mentioned the competitor by name, but I, but I would just create those buckets.

And say we are different than legacy companies. We are different than traditional companies. Sometimes I would mention by name, but you can do that if you are the smaller company. We'll talk about that in a second. You can name the competitor sometimes if you are the smaller company, because if Rainbird is, you're not trying, they already know.

They're probably going to have a conversation if, if you're a commercial maintenance company, likely in a, in a metro area, likely your customer may have a discussion, let's say with Brightview. And again, I'm, I'm just using names that might be, that you might be able to relate to. It's likely that they're going to have a conversation with Brightview.

So you could say something like, we are different than traditional companies like Brightview. Because blank, now you've framed Brightview as a traditional company, or you could say something like, we are different than legacy companies like Brightview because blank. Again, I may seem like I'm picking on Brightview.

I'm not. I'm just naming them because there are only a few sort of large national companies that might be in every local area. So if you are working at Brightview, please don't take this personally. I'm just just using it figuratively. But it doesn't also, it doesn't always work the other way around, okay?

So, if you are Brightview, if you are Rainbird, if you are SiteOne, Ewing, et cetera, and you are the, let's say the... current market leader. And again, I'm not saying Rainbird's the market leader, but technically, yeah, they kind of are, right. They're one of the market leaders. If you are the market leader, I think it is rarely an advantage to specifically naming competitors.

So there was nothing better for me in the early days and for Baseline in the early days, nothing better than if one of the larger leaders like Rainbird, Toro, Hunter, even Rainmaster, Kalsense, you know, and Tukor for that matter. There was nothing better than if they would name Baseline. And the reason is because nobody knew who Baseline was.

So, if a larger competitor were to bring up Baseline in the conversation, all of a sudden, it's like they, they immediately legitimize Baseline. Not legitimizing the features and the capability, but by naming the company, they legitimize the fact that Baseline's large enough to be a part of the conversation.

Okay? So, if you're the larger company, if you're the market leader, it's rarely to your advantage to name the smaller incumbent. And this, and I'm not going to name names, but there are existing examples of this, even in the irrigation industry that I see regularly from larger technology companies that are the market leaders naming smaller incumbents.

And it is, it does nothing but legitimize them, bring them into the conversation. And if your customer did not know who they were. Now they know who they are and if you name them, they probably should go do their due diligence and talk to them because if they're legitimate enough for the market leader to be aware and add to the conversation, then your customer probably needs to go have a conversation and so you just did yourself a disservice by mentioning them and bringing them into the conversation.

So that's kind of like I would say the untold Untold rule is that if you are the bigger company, don't bring in, don't bring in your smaller, the, the small guys. Okay. Um, let's see, what should we, where should we go next with this? I think that this also relates to something that we see called a kill sheet and a kill sheet.

You, you've probably seen, um, let's just say sprinkler manufacturer, a, you know, creates a kill sheet for their new rotor. And in this kill sheet, you see a list of features from their rotor. And then you see, you know, competitor one, competitor two, competitor three, and you see this like a, you know, comparison.

Uh, feature, feature comparison, it's known as a kill sheet and there's a couple of reasons why I don't particularly like kill sheets. Number one, because it brings competitors into the conversation that may not have been in the conversation already and legitimizes them. But it also helps bring up this phrase that I, that I love to use, and that is in the sales process.

Of course, don't answer questions that haven't been asked. A lot of times we want to assume our customer, our prospect is going to ask us something. And so you see a lot of salespeople that just love to talk and they start, they start answering questions that the customer hasn't even asked. And oftentimes it's leading them down a path that they weren't going to go down before.

And I think this is a great, you know, the kill sheet is a great example of that. You're answering, you're answering questions that the customer hasn't even asked. So it really serves, it really serves little purpose unless the customer specifically came in. You know, searching for, you know, this exact difference.

So you might be able to now, as I think about this, you might be able to have like a landing page, right? If somebody goes to Google and they search, you know, Rainbird 5, 000. Versus Hunter PGP, right? You may not want to, I would not recommend you ever have that conversation with a prospect unless they ask.

And if they ask, you don't necessarily have to show. But if they search that on Google, okay, maybe you want to have a landing page that talks about that, those differences, but that would be kind of the only, the only time I would recommend having that, that kill sheet or, you know, in your local area, if you think people are searching.

You know, Contractor A versus Contractor B. So, in other words, let's say you're a salesperson for some fictitious company called Complete Irrigation. I wouldn't recommend you say something like, you may have heard of Advanced Irrigation because they are new, they're advertising a lot in this local area, but they don't do Blank.

Don't say that. If you are the larger company, i. e. complete irrigation, don't say something like, you may have heard of advanced irrigation because they are the, they are new and they're advertising a lot. Don't mention the competition, especially when they're smaller. All right. So don't mention the competition if they're smaller.

Don't answer questions that, that haven't been asked. And I would say if you are asked about the competition, it doesn't mean you have to provide an answer. Okay. This is where strategy comes in. Just because someone asks you a question doesn't mean you have to provide an answer to that question. Number one, you could reply with another question.

Number two, you get to respond any way that you, any way that you want to. So what I would do if, if someone asks you about. Uh, your competitor, go back to your positioning buckets, you know, instead of answering the question exactly, uh, find a bucket to put them in, you know, that, that way it can help you avoid the question.

So if they, if somebody were to ask me something, you know, specific about Rainbird, I would, you know, I might say something like, well, you know, the way that legacy companies handle that feature is blank. Okay. You get to, you get to reposition them, which also positions you. Okay. So I may have gotten a little off track.

I hope, I hope not. But I think that in summary here, you know, competition is, how do I say this? Competition is kind of made up. It's always there. It's never going to go away. How you relate to the competitor is up to you. Okay, so that's why there are no competitors. The only competitor is you. You are your own biggest competitor.

I guess those might be some of my final words. You are your own biggest competitor. And I think that in summary, again, if you're the larger company, it will not help for you to name your smaller competitors, even if they happen to be, you know, The cute, the cute girl, AKA the pretty girl at the dance. It doesn't mean you have to talk about them.

Don't talk about the new smaller competitors. And remember that you get to control the narrative. It's your narrative. You get to position. yourself, your company, your, your product, your service. And you also get to position your competitors by educating your customer about the entire landscape and placing competitors into certain buckets without mentioning them by name.

So never miss an opportunity to position your competitors, paint the picture of the market. Position your competitors accordingly. And as a result, I think your competitors will only be left to. React and that's what you want to do. You want to seem like you are, you know, the entire market, you've created these buckets, you've framed up the competition into certain buckets and, and then your competitor will only be left to react.

So I think, uh, yeah, this, this could be the one of the first. First episodes I've done with sales strategies, and I think the sale is easy if the positioning is done Properly so yeah take that for what it's worth think of think of creating buckets positioning framing And then the sale just becomes easy after that and and some of this is unlimited again You just use your creative use creativity to create buckets that frame up your company Even if you are the, um, your company is the oldest in your market area, even if your company is not using technology, even if your company, you know, is not, if your company is not keeping up with the times, you still get to create new buckets to position your competitors and frame yourself in the way that you want to be framed in a way that you know your, what your customers are looking for.

Thank you as always for listening. Really appreciate you guys. Really appreciate those who, uh, reach out to me. Thank you, Michelle from Canada for connecting with me this week. Great to talk to you and, uh, if you haven't already follow, subscribe, share this podcast with a, with a colleague or a friend. And, uh, it kind of feels good to have 143 episodes, so if you've only listened to a couple, you know, dig back into the archives, find something else to listen to, and I would always love to have a suggestion if you have something that you'd like me to talk about or do some research on or bring on a guest, reach out any time.

So thanks so much guys, we'll catch you next week on another episode. Bye bye.

Link to Data Chart (ET vs. Air temp)

https://sprinklernerd.com/evapotranspiration-vs-air-temperature

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BAM! We're on fire today, guys. This is the end of ET. End of it. End of ET. Do I have your attention? Think about it. This is the end. The end. This is the end. The end. End, my friends. All right. Hopefully I do have your attention. Because... I just want to make you think. You guys know me by now. I love thinking of things upside down, sideways, backwards.

Just think of something in a way you've never thought of it before, and when I say this is the end of E. T., what does that mean to you? I'm just gonna sit here for a minute and let you think about that. When I say the end of E. T., what does that mean to you?

Hmm. Does it mean we're never going to use ET again? Possibly. However, ET is a uh, known good formula. It's a very detailed calculation that probably took whoever came up with it, Edmund Monti, lots and lots of research to figure out. So, I don't, I personally don't think it's the end of EET in terms of we're never going to use it again.

I guess what I wanted to, what I want you to think about is that is it the right tool to determine how much water we should apply to the landscape right now? For that purpose, I think this is the end of et not today 'cause this is still how we're watering. But if we fast forwarded 20 years, will we be using ET to determine how much water to apply to the landscape?

Right now? At this moment I want you to go out to your landscape, to your project and I want you to water turn on the sprinklers. How long? Should you water the landscape right now? How long should you water it? Will you, will you look at yesterday's wind speed, yesterday's temperature, yesterday's solar radiation, yesterday's humidity?

Will you look at yesterday's Cite environmental data to determine how long to water today. Right now, I don't think you will , so when I say it's the end of et, we are in the transition zone. We are in the transition zone of taking a mechanical. system, a turn on now for 15 minutes every Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 6 a.

m. We're in the middle of that transition to a automated system that can apply the right amount of water. Right now, in real time. And the only way to do that is to put a sensor in the soil. So this is a long winded way of saying my prediction is that this is the end of ET as a real time automation tool.

ET will become the Will become, and actually is right now, the only tool and the best tool to predict water usage, to run calculations, to forecast, to run, uh, forecasting models. It's the only tool for that, but it's not the right tool to automate the irrigation system right now, here, today. So I'm going to start talking more about soil moisture sensors, how they work.

You know, the ups, the downs, the, the, the good, bad, and the ugly. But I kind of wanted to just frame this episode around the end of ET number one to get your attention. But number two, so that you can understand where is it, where is et the right tool for the job? And in my opinion, the right tool for the job is for forecasting, calculating estimating, but it's not designed for real-time watering.

It's not designed to. Be the tool to water until the ground is at field capacity and stop watering. If I told you to go outside right now and only put down enough water so that the soil reaches field capacity and turn it and it turns off, would you really use yesterday's weather data to run a calculation for that?

All right, I'm in the weeds a little bit, but that's the that's my topic for today. And I ran. An experiment that really got me excited. It has to do with ChatGPT, and I asked ChatGPT a really cool question that had some amazing results, and what's kind of fun about ChatGPT is that it doesn't have a It doesn't have a, you know, a horse in the race.

It doesn't care who's right or who's wrong. It's very, uh, sort of factual. You know, so it doesn't have a lens. It's not seeing our industry through, you know, the eyes of one manufacturer or that manufacturer or who's right or who's wrong. You know, it's a very... I'm trying to think of the right word. Factual.

So I asked ChatGPT, instead of using an actual... air temperature sensor like a thermometer to control a thermostat, would it be possible to calculate the air temperature instead of using a thermometer? Okay? And this is a fantastic analogy because it directly correlates to to et. 'cause if ET is the value that we use to water more or water less, that's like saying the temperature goes up or down.

The only difference is the temperature is something that you can, you can measure, right? You can measure the temperature with a thermometer. , just like you can measure the moisture in the ground. With a sole moisture sensor. Yet, we are not doing it. So when I asked ChatGPT, instead of using an actual air temperature thermometer to control a thermostat, would it be possible to calculate the air temperature instead?

Do you want to know what, what the computer said? What, uh, what Mr. ChatGPT said? He said, yes, it is possible to estimate air temperature using alternative methods instead of directly measuring it with a thermometer. However, this is great. However, the accuracy and feasibility of these methods vary, and they might not always be suitable for controlling a thermostat.

Here are a few methods that can be considered. And there's six of them. And when, when I read these, I want you to think about ET, evapotranspiration. I want you to think about the fact that we are calculating, calculating water use. But we are not measuring it. We are not measuring it. We're using third party factors, wind speed, temperature, humidity, solar radiation, air temperature, to calculate the water use.

Okay. So there are. A few methods we can consider for calculating the air temperature to control the thermostat to turn the heat on or off instead of measuring it. Here's the first method. Based on other environmental data, boom! We could control a thermostat based on other environmental data. Does that sound familiar?

Can we control an irrigation controller based on other, other environmental data instead of just how much moisture is in the ground? You could use something called a radiation budget. Using instruments to measure incoming and outgoing radiation can allow one to estimate the temperature. This method is often used in remote sensing applications and meteorology.

You could use heat balance. If you can measure or estimate all the other heat fluxes in an environment like radiation, conduction, convection, latent heat due to evaporation, condensation, you can estimate the temperature Based on the heat balance equation. The frickin heat balance equation. This is like, this is so awesome.

It is exactly like E. T. The evapotranspiration equation. The similarities are like, it's like brother sister. We don't do this with our thermostats, but we do it with our landscape. Alright, the heat balance equation. I'm gonna make that bold again. I'm kind of just reading my notes here. That's a good one.

That's a writer downer. Heat balance equation is like the evapotranspiration equation. Okay, method number two, using electronic components. A resistor. A resistor's resistance changes slightly with temperature. While this isn't typically as accurate as a dedicated temperature sensor, it can give a rough estimate.

Okay? You could also use a diode or transistor. The voltage drops across a diode, or the base emitter junction of a transistor changes with temperature. By measuring this voltage drop, you can estimate the temperature. And that, that correlates a little bit more similar to using a soil moisture sensor because we're using kind of third party measurements to estimate the soil moisture, okay?

Now um, I think, I think I'm going to skip over these other three, you know, you can ask ChatGPT this, this same thing or ask Google BARD, whatever, but the last one is called data modeling. If you have a strong understanding of all the factors influencing temperature in a given setting, like in a building, you can create a model that predicts temperature based on inputs like outside temperature, time of day, insulation.

Machine learning models can also be trained on historical data to predict temperatures. Data modeling, okay? That's what we're doing with our landscape systems. We are not measuring real time moisture in the soil. We are using what might be considered in the heat industry, the heat balance equation and data modeling, but we are not measuring actual moisture for the most part, right?

95%. So, yeah, just think about that. Think about that and think about where we can, where this is going to go. Okay. All, all of this money, this effort placed on, on data modeling, evapotranspiration to adjust runtimes in a controller. This is the end, not here, not today, not 2023, but the prediction is here because if we look at another industry, look at the past and we look at other technology that's out there to control something like our heating and cooling, we are not using data modeling for that.

We are using a real sensor. So in this industry, in our industry, in the future, and now, the best way to water is going to be with a soil moisture sensor. And the only way for this to be the, uh, the, for this to, um, hmm, what's the word? I'm losing my words here. The only way for soil moisture sensors to be everywhere, for every system to use them, they have to be easy to use, easy to install, easy to understand, And they have to be like, frickin cheap.

Okay? Because we can't take a 600 soil moisture sensor and put it on every home in the world. You can't take, you know, 20 600 sensors and put them on one commercial site. You, frankly, you can't, it makes no sense even a sensor that's 250 is too expensive. So in the future, maybe not only does every zone have a sensor, maybe every zone has 10 sensors.

We have to get to a place where the technology is, uh, is for the everyday person and the price is for the everyday person. So that's my prediction. This is the end of E. T. As used to automate irrigation systems. I think we're going to, we're going to pivot this more effort will probably be placed into using ET as a predictive model so that you can go, uh, and run your own water use calculations to understand how much water is being used on this site and how much water should be used on this site based on historical ET.

So you can decide if this site is over watering or under watering and run your models, run your, run your prediction models. Run your ROI models to see if there's an opportunity to enhance the performance of the system. But we're going to get away from using ET to make real time watering decisions, okay?

So I think probably the next episode we'll start talking a little bit more about this and maybe this will become kind of like the, uh, The figurehead episode for my, um, personal opinions that this is a new, you know, I just kind of decided to, to share it and using the thermostat analogy has always been a good one.

Uh, but I never took the time to really dig in or ask, uh, you know, use the tool like chat GPT to tell me. Imagine if, imagine if we didn't have a, we didn't have a, an actual air temperature sensor in the building. How else could we control the thermostat? I can, it came back with, use, you can estimate the temperature based on the heat balance equation.

And if you have a strong understanding of all the factors influencing temperature in a given setting, like in a building, you can create a model that predicts temperature based on inputs, like outside temperature. Wait a minute, you could use outside temperature to predict the inside temperature? Well sure, you just have to know how big is the room, how many people are in there, what's the type of insulation, what directions do the windows face.

We could give it all these inputs, run a data model, and probably get within 10 percent of actual air temperature in the room. Or we could just put a damn air temperature sensor in the room. So, all right, whoo, I got to calm down, cool down a little bit. Just getting excited. This is a lot, a lot of thoughts all coming together with a, um, I don't know, almost like a, a new vision.

So just want to challenge you guys to unthink, relearn, challenge yourself to question what it is you think, you know. Every day can be a new day. Ask yourself, is this the right way? Am I doing this the right way? Do we, are we all thinking the right way? And I think, uh, I'll probably put Maybe I'll just link it in the show notes.

I, uh, I have my own set of, uh, sensor tools and suites and software that, that I use just for kind of, uh, Um, learning about this kind of stuff and I run, um, I run the ET equation for my house using a local weather station. So I have, uh, I record the daily ET every day and I built a model that shows the average air temperature daily.

Overlaid on the daily et and what's really fascinating is that the air, the daily average air temperature when overlaid with et um, the, the similarities are striking. And so in other words, when ET goes up, temperature goes up, when ET goes down, temperature goes down. And it's almost as if. You could use air temperature to adjust your controller.

So let's say we didn't run these ET models and you only had air temperature. You could adjust your run times based on air temperature and it would likely be better than just running it On a time schedule. So I'll take this graph, I'll try to find a way I can, I can put it online and then allow you to click the link so that you can view it.

Uh, just cause it's, it's fascinating. You know, it's almost, uh, makes me think if have we, have we confused the hell out of everybody in this industry by trying to explain evapotranspiration 101 ways, do you need one on site? Do you need one in your local town? There's like, there's all these questions when really, what if there was just a.

Air temperature sensor and we adjusted the runtime, you know, up or down just based on, uh, based on the air temperature because the correlation is striking. And I think if somebody were to ask me, you can't use a weather station, Andy, but you can pick one data point to model from. I would choose air temperature just just like chat.

GP set chat. GPT said that we could use air temperature outside the building. to run and predict the temperature inside the building. Temperature is a key factor. And I also noticed that my house, when the temperature is cooler, you know, specifically because I'm in the Northern climate, we have cool season grass.

So my grass is just healthier. It is, and what I mean healthier, it's less stressed when the air temperature is cool. So when the air temperature is cool, it's almost like. It looks like I've just watered and fertilized, but I did nothing. The air temperature just came down. The grass got happier, healthier, less stressed.

I really don't need to water because the grass is happy just based on air temperature. So it's kind of like, all right, once the daily, once the daily air temperature, let's say for cool season grass, and I don't know what these should be. So I'm kind of just spit balling here, but what if the daily air temperature was below 75 degrees, you know.

Do you need to water or do you need to water like half as much? What matters more, the daily ET or the average air temperature and the type of plant material you're trying to grow? Just, just some interesting questions when you start looking, when you start looking at the data and we have, uh,

Yeah, we have this bias that, you know, E. T. is like a one size fits all. We try to adjust it, uh, based on root depth and plant type and all these factors. I don't know. It's just I'm tired. It's very tiring to know there are other ways to automate the system, yet we continue to push the same agenda. Not that it's an agenda.

It sometimes seems that way. Um, so anyway, there you have it, guys. Thank you so much for listening to my little, uh, So stood in my soapbox for a bit and I'm trying to think if there's anything else that was on my mind related to this. I'm sure that there is, um, you know, it makes me think, uh, of, uh, a quote and I'll actually, maybe I'll play it.

There was a quote from the, um, the episode that I recorded with the CEO of Irrigreen and he made this correlation to, you know, with their developing as similar to, uh, a carburetor. So we don't have carburetors in our car anymore because we have electronic fuel injection. But at one point, there was no electronic fuel injection.

So you kind of had this mechanical You know, carburetor device that control the air intake and it's kind of what's happening here in, in our industry with, with ET. We think that using ET to automate might be like having electronic fuel injection, but, but it's not because it's not measuring anything.

It's, it's, it'd be like having a electronic fuel injector that just calculated everything instead of measuring it. So maybe I'll play that quote, mix it in here. And, uh, Transcribed Yeah. Thanks so much for listening. Please, you know, hit the subscribe button, uh, or to follow. And if, uh, this episode resonated with you and you have a hard time sometimes explaining ET or, or you agree, or, or even if you disagree and you think I'm just full of shit, share this episode with someone, have them listen to it and see what they think.

Love to get this discussion going more so we can just continue to elevate the industry and find the right tools for the job. So hope you guys have a great weekend. Thanks for, thanks for tuning in as always and, uh, catch on the next episode. Bye bye.

Andy shares is update after speed dating at the EQUIP Show this week (formerly known as, GIE).

K-IT Wire Konnector: https://youtu.be/PQXwNig-Gwo

In this episode, Andy shares how he used Chat GPT to draft a Jury Excuse Letter which formally excused him from Jury Duty.

Letter Template: https://tinyurl.com/2bdf7pyh

What's up my friends. Welcome back to the pod. This is your host, Andy Humphrey. I'm actually at the moment driving back from Grand Rapids, Michigan. I attended, uh, yesterday the conference called American... No. Association of Water Technology. Association of Water Technology. AWT. Annual National Conference was in Grand Rapids and I thought, you know what?

I have an affinity for technology. I'm in the water business. Let me go check out this AWT conference. So, I drove down to Grand Rapids yesterday just to attend the trade show. It was 150 to go, you know, see who, see what the water technology conference is all about. I also wanted to catch up with my friend, Justin and Breck from OpConnect.

Special shout out to you guys on the podcast today. Good to see ya. Lots of fun. Thank you for a good time last night. And anyway, back to the conference. Wasn't quite sure what to expect. You know, like I said, I just kind of figured that because I'm in the water technology business, I should go to the water technology conference.

Come to find out that it was mostly... Hmm, what's the right way to describe it? Mostly, kind of industrial cooling towers, boilers, water treatment, things of that nature. And, I guess, uh, that's not what I would first think of as it relates to technology. However, there is a lot of technology in how we treat water and how we manage and control cooling towers.

commercial buildings. And what was also interesting is that it was a bit similar to the irrigation and landscape industry. I might say a slightly more professional, and I, I say that from just judging the book by its cover, meaning it appeared that attendees were a little bit better Dressed than a landscape show.

So it doesn't mean that it's higher quality. I just noticed that it seemed like it was a bit more of a professional event. I understood that there's about 5, 000 people that attended. And I think for me, and this kind of relates to something that I wanted to share with you today, it, it felt, it was good to see the water industry through a completely different lens.

And to get on the field with a new set of players, not just, you know, guys like guys and gals like you and me that understand irrigation, but to see what is happening in other industries and how technology and I guess digital technology may be affecting other industries. And from the most part, it mostly felt like a conference from the early 2000s.

In other words, I didn't see a lot of sort of IoT mobile software tech. There was some, but not a lot. Most of what I saw was industrial type controls. Lots of pipes, lots of valves, lots of dosing pumps, things of that nature. Less software. And what is fascinating, I think, about that is there, there could still be a bit of a missing gap in terms of these guys focus, uh, down in the weeds, although maybe it's not really down in the weeds, they focus on the details of water Clarity, I guess, or, or water, water treatment, uh, especially in the cooling towers, with less focus on how much water is going in and how much water is coming out.

It's mostly they focus on what happens in between. Less focus on water going in and water going out, more focus on controlling the water, treating the water in between. And, uh, yeah, so I guess that was kind of my 10, 000 foot view, uh, observation. And it's not that different than... then the irrigation industry.

Oftentimes, this industry, our industry, the landscape industry, focuses on, let's say, the runtime of the zone and the precipitation rate of the zone and the types of sprinklers and the types of drip and the spacing of the drip and the infiltration rate of the soil and all these things. The details in between with a little less focus on, uh, the 10, 000 foot view.

How many gallons of water is this landscape using per cycle per day, per month, per year? And is that the right amount of water? You know, those 10, 000 foot view, uh, lenses that we, we spend less time focusing on the big picture and we spend more time focusing on the details. And I wonder. What would happen if we did it the other way around?

Sometimes to, to see what you can't see you have to change the place that you're standing. You have to stand somewhere else and look back or take another perspective and that might be, as I, as I talk here, that might be the lead into What I, uh, wanted to share, which was kind of about, you know, our own biases or, or, or our own cognitive biases and our own blind spots.

And this could be one of them, that we focus on the details, we focus on not mixing sprays and rotors and the fundamentals and the infiltration rate and the precipitation rate. And all of those details because we're not focusing on the big picture and maybe that is a potential blind spot. So my question would be, is it a blind spot?

Where are your blind spots? How do you know if you have a blind spot? And I heard this quote earlier in the week. And you guys know that I like to write down the quotes that I hear and share them with you. So the quote went something like this. We believe that what we see. is all there is. I really like that.

We believe that what we see is all there is. And that's why oftentimes we almost want to convince other people that what we believe is true because that's all that we see. And the analogy that, uh, I don't remember who said this. I just wrote it down, but I didn't, I can't remember actually where I heard it, but the analogy was You're on a train, and you're holding a ball.

You're on a train, you're holding a ball, the train is going 60 miles an hour, how fast is the ball moving? I'll let you think about that. You're on a train, you're holding a ball, you're going 60 miles an hour, how fast is the ball moving? And I love this because your first thought is, well, the ball... Or maybe your thought is the ball's not moving.

I'm, I'm on the train. I'm holding the ball. The ball's not moving. But, but what I didn't give you, what I didn't give you was to think about from whose perspective am I asking? Am I asking you on the train how fast the ball is moving or am I asking someone else outside the train how fast the ball is moving?

Because depending on who you ask, you will get two different answers. If you ask the person on the train, they'll tell you the ball's not moving. If you ask the person outside the train how fast the ball is moving, they'll say the ball went past at 60 miles an hour. So, one question can have two different, completely different answers, yet both are 100 percent correct.

It just depends on who you ask. So I think that it, we could get caught up in, in a similar pattern in our industry when someone asks the question, how do you reduce water usage? Well, we're probably all going to have the same answers, but the answers could vary depending on who you're asking and what their level of knowledge is, and how they want, what their plan of attack would be to reduce the water usage.

Again, I don't think that there's any one particular way or one particular answer. There's only many answers and there may be a couple more questions that you want to ask before you can answer that question more accurately. So, yeah, coming back to the, to the water conference. That's how I felt a bit. I was able to change my perspective, go from inside the train to outside the train or go from inside the irrigation water industry to step out of the industry and step in to the water technology through a different lens, through this industrial.

Uh, industrial water technology lens. And come to find out, there's a lot of similarities. It's water. Water is used. Water is wasted. And there is technology both controlling the water, monitoring the water, and managing the water. And, like I said, I think the closest similarity is that both industries, when you're in the industry deep, you focus on the details.

You focus on... The small, the small aspects and you lose a little bit of perspective on the bigger, on the bigger picture. And because I'm not in the industrial water space and I don't know how to treat the water like all these guys in the show and gals in the show know and they know their industry inside and out.

My observation was that's where they focus. And when I asked people. Who manages, who decides how much water goes into the building for, let's say the cooling tower and how much goes out and is that the right amount? A majority of the response was that that wasn't really managed or tracked. So I think we should probably reflect back and ask ourselves those same questions.

How many gallons should this site? Should this landscape be using? Start with the big picture. How much water goes into the landscape? How much water goes out of the landscape? Can't really measure how much goes out of the landscape, but how much goes in and is that the right amount? Start there, then, then go down.

into the details to figure out how to make that, how to make that happen, how to apply that right amount of water just simply based on gallons per square foot per day. Gallons per square foot per day, per cycle, per month, per year. What is your gallons per square foot and how do you set up the control system to apply that?

Right amount of gallons per square foot and how do you monitor it to make sure you're still applying the gallons the correct gallons per square foot, so Bunch of things here today to share with you, but I just wanted to kind of give you my thoughts on the association of water Technology and just that that quote here that we believe that what we see is all there is That's such a good one.

We believe that all We believe that what we see is all there is, so the next time you're, you're stuck, the next time you're not seeing something, get off the train and then see how fast the ball is moving. Otherwise, the ball's not going to be moving. All right, I think that's what I have here today, guys.

Thanks for, thanks for tuning in. Appreciate you listening to, uh, the last couple weeks of my solo episodes and... I do have, there's a whole bunch of new content that I am preparing that could possibly take this podcast in a slightly, uh, different direction, still water, but, uh, perhaps in a slightly different direction, and I'm kind of putting the framework for that together with a possible, uh, December, I shouldn't say launch, not really a launch, but, um, Perhaps a December pivot.

Not, not quite sure yet. Still getting my thoughts together, but I think overall I'd really like to start talking more about water in its entirety with maybe a slightly less focus on the ins and outs of irrigation specifically. So. Anyway, that's kind of, uh, what's going on in my head. Thanks again for listening.

Appreciate you guys. Remember to subscribe to this podcast, podcast, podcast. That would be an interesting app. Podcast. Do you have the podcast app? How to turn your podcast into cash? Remember to subscribe and please share this with a friend, someone that you know, who may enjoy the ins and outs of irrigation technology, as well as episodes seeded in with what's going on in Andy's mind.

So again, thank you so much. Have a great weekend. Catch you on the next episode.

Welcome back to the sprinkler nerd show, I'm your host, Andy Humphrey, this is episode #138, and my goal for this episode to share a reminder with you. By now you know that I'm a technology evangelist - and by that - what I mean is that I believe technology will improve the human experience, and that technology is merely a tool - A tool for the human - but not to replace the human. There often appears to be a polarization as it relates to technology, and especially, new technology. There are those who embrace it, use it, and experience the benefits from it - whatever those benefits happen to be. And there are those who avoid it, oppose it, are afraid of it, or tend to right it off as not necessary. There is no right or wrong to either of these view points, everyone is entitled to their own thought, beliefs, and experiences. I just find this interesting. Likely there is some sort of psychology behind this, but I;ll save that for another episode to allow myself to research that hypothesis further. But today, I wanted to share a quote with you, that resonated with me this week, and depending on how you view technology might hit home, or you might argue against it, or maybe if you are a technology avoidant (which you are likely not if you choose to listen to this show), perhaps this quote will offer some positive encouragement for the future of the human & technology convergence. I will play the actual quote for you, but first I'd like to summarize it for you in my own words. It goes like this: "People say that Technology will displace people, when in fact, it is people who use technology that will replace people who do not use technology" That is essentially the gist of the quote and the reason I really like this is becasue this is exactly what is happening in our industry. I often say that A smart controller does not save water, someone who knows how to use a smart controller can save water" There is a difference. The tech is just the tool. The human who uses the tool is the one who has the upper hand. Make sense? So going back to the quote - technology alone will not displace people, but people who use the technology will replace people who do not use the technology.