In this episode of The Starfish and the Church, we had a powerful conversation with my friend Jeff Vanderstelt, who stepped into the chaos after Mark Driscoll’s departure from Mars Hill.

This is the story the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill Podcast chose not to tell you. 

We covered:

Jeff shares how he led with love, walked alongside wounded people, and helped a broken community rediscover health, unity, and mission. He also challenges us to be “with people in their pain,” echoing the beauty of Emmanuel—God with us.

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Healing what's within. How do we heal? Where do we begin? What questions do we need to ask?

In this thought-provoking conversation, Rob Wegner, Lance Ford, and Michelle and Chuck DeGroat delve into the profound themes of healing, trauma, and connection within the church. Drawing from their personal experiences and theological insights, they explore the concept of fullness as described in Ephesians, the importance of self-awareness in leadership, and the transformative role of compassion in the healing process.

The dialogue highlights the often-overlooked trauma faced by church leaders and their families, the wisdom that older generations bring, and the significance of listening to our bodies as a guide to healing. Through this journey, they emphasize the power of experiencing God as a secure and non-anxious presence, and how this experience equips us to become healers for others.

Whether you're a leader, a healer, or someone seeking wholeness, this conversation is a must-watch. Discover practical wisdom and transformative insights to help navigate your own journey toward healing and connection.

In this bonus conversation, Rob Wegner and Brian Johnson dive into the heart of what it means to navigate the challenges of cultivating networks of microchurches. Drawing on years of experience and plenty of missteps, they reflect on the key lessons captured in the *Four Mistakes Early Microchurch Practitioners Make* article.

The discussion offers a candid, behind-the-scenes look at their journey—sharing practical wisdom, personal anecdotes, and gentle warnings for those stepping into the work of planting microchurches.

Here are a few highlights:

- The Temptation to Go Too Fast: Why rushing to “flip the switch” on microchurches often leads to frustration and missed opportunities for deep disciple-making.

- Starting with Structures Instead of Stories: How building a website or organization before truly living out disciple-making can pull practitioners away from their hyper-local mission fields.

- Avoiding the Hero Complex: The importance of decentralizing leadership and making room for diverse voices from the very beginning.

- Returning to the Basics: A reminder that intimacy with Jesus, prayer, and repentance aren’t just starting points—they are the ongoing foundation of all movement.

The conversation is a compelling call to slow down, stay present, and root deeply in the work of the Spirit. Whether you’re an early practitioner or a seasoned leader, this conversation is a must-watch for anyone passionate about microchurch multiplication.

Catch the full video above and lean into these lessons as you continue your journey.

Join the the ⁠⁠⁠Starfish Substack⁠⁠⁠ for free. You'll gain access to you’ll gain access to practical wisdom, articles, tools, assessments and insights that foster your growth as a Starfish Leader

"Collaboration is the most needed technology."

"No great Kingdom thing happens alone."

In this episode of the Starfish and the Church podcast, hosts Lance Ford and Rob Wegner engage with Brian Sanders, a social entrepreneur and founder of the Underground Network. They explore Brian's journey to faith, the importance of collaboration in leadership, and the need for unity within the church. Brian shares insights on the challenges of articulating a unified vision for the church and the transformative power of collaborative efforts. The conversation also touches on the future of microchurches and the shift from hierarchical to networked communities, emphasizing the significance of transcendent goals in fostering collaboration.

Look for a fresh Starfish Principles article tomorrow on the Four Keys to Collaboration.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Brian Sanders and His Work

03:00 Brian's Journey to Faith and Collaboration

06:09 Understanding COHATCH and Its Mission

09:12 The Importance of Collaboration in Leadership

11:58 The Need for Unity and Collaboration in the Church

15:01 Developing Collaborative Skills in Leadership

18:12 The Shift from Hierarchical to Collaborative Leadership

21:04 The Role of Exhaustion in Leadership Transformation

24:09 The Biblical Basis for Collaboration

26:52 The Challenge of Articulating a Unified Church Vision

29:47 The Power of Transcendent Goals in Collaboration

32:52 NASA as a Model for Collaboration

35:51 Stories of Hope in Collaborative Communities

39:09 The Future of Microchurches and Networked Communities

In this first episode of Hot Takes, hosts Rob Wegner and Lance Ford, along with guest Chris Caputo, delve into the controversial topic of Trump prophecies and their implications within the charismatic church. They explore the nature of prophetic ministry, the importance of community discernment, and the criteria for evaluating prophetic words. The conversation emphasizes the need for accountability, character assessment, and the relational dynamics of prophecy in the New Testament context.

Join the the ⁠Starfish Substack⁠ for free. You'll gain access to you’ll gain access to practical wisdom, articles, tools, assessments and insights that foster your growth as a Starfish Leader

In this conversation, Lance Ford and Rob Wegner interview JR Woodward, the author of 'The Scandal of Leadership: Unmasking the Powers of Domination in the Church.' They discuss the concept of the powers, which include Satan, the demonic, and the principalities and powers. Woodward argues that the Western evangelical church has a weak theology of the powers, which leaves it vulnerable and deceived. He emphasizes the need for a deeper understanding of the powers, as they shape all of reality, including the social and personal. Woodward also explores the metaphor of a whirlpool to illustrate how the powers create a current that pulls people in and influences their behavior. The conversation explores the principalities of public image, institutions, and ideologies. It discusses how public image exists independent of a person and can lead to mental illness. It also examines how institutions seek ultimate allegiance and can become demonic when they exist for their own survival. The conversation delves into the temptations faced by Jesus and how they relate to identity, power, and control. It emphasizes the importance of finding our sense of significance in Christ and engaging the powers through our identity, praxis, and telos. The conversation concludes with a discussion on letting go and embracing self-emptying. In this final part of the conversation, JR Woodward discusses the concept of ideology as idolatry and the dangers of being captive to ideologies. He explains how ideologies have their own account of sin and redemption, as well as their own scapegoats. He emphasizes the need for a proper understanding of the kingdom of God and Jesus' way of bringing it about as the antidote to ideology. The conversation also touches on the powers at play in the current election cycle and the impact on the evangelical church in America.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Excitement for Season Three

02:52 JR Woodward's Story and Journey to Faith

08:02 Leading the V3 Church Planting Movement

13:01 The Scandal of Leadership: Unmasking the Powers of Domination in the Church

16:21 Understanding the Powers: Satan, the Demonic, and the Principalities

22:35 The Whirlpool Effect: How the Powers Influence and Pull People In

23:56 The Image, Institution, and Ideology of the Powers

27:02 The Danger of Institutions

34:45 Engaging the Powers: Temptations and Identity

43:44 Letting Go and Embracing Self-Emptying

46:24 Ideology as Idolatry

49:21 The Antidote to Ideology

57:02 Mimetic Desire and the Scapegoat Mechanism

01:01:42 The Uniqueness of the Bible

01:05:30 Leadership Rooted in Imitating Jesus

Chuck DeGroat is Professor of Counseling and Christian Spirituality at Western Theological Seminary (Holland, MI) and Co-Founder and Senior Fellow at Newbigin House of Studies, San Francisco. He is passionate about spiritual formation for mission. He’s spent 20+ years in a fluid combination of pastoral ministry, seminary teaching, and clinical counseling. His latest book is "When Narcissism Comes to Church."

https://chuckdegroat.net/

This episode is an interview done by Joshua Johnson of All Nations in Kansas City. You can check out their podcast: Shifting Culture, here. Joshua interviews Rob about the Starfish and The Spirit concept and how it plays out practically with the Kansas City Underground. 

Peyton Jones is a seasoned church ministry ninja with over 25 years of experience as a church planter, national public speaker, author, and podcaster.

Brian Phipps serves as President of Disciples Made based out of Shawnee, KS. He brings strong leadership and investments in championing the spiritual growth of leaders, and therefore disciples, everywhere.