The Step UP - Where Leaders, Talent Managers and Leadership Development pros find expert tips for Leadership excellence

What does it actually mean to lead without authority — and why do so many smart, capable leaders never learn how? Mike Krupit spent 25 years building startups from engineer to CTO to COO to CEO before founding Trajectify, and his answer is simple: most people try to lead with power because it's faster. The problem is it runs out. In this episode, Mike and Kent dig into why influence outlasts authority, what it actually takes to build it, and why the shift to remote and hybrid work is quietly eroding the relationship capital leaders depend on most.

Guest: Mike Krupit is the CEO of Trajectify, an executive coaching and advisory firm helping leaders and organizations break through growth plateaus by developing stronger people skills alongside stronger strategy.

In this episode:

• [01:49] — Mike's career arc: from engineer to CEO across 25 years in Silicon Valley startups
• [04:54] — How startup leaders skip leadership levels vs. the corporate path — and what each approach misses
• [12:14] — The story that crystallized it: a director who quit rather than learn to lead without the CEO's authority
• [15:17] — Where Mike starts when leaders complain about "no accountability" — and why it's almost always a relationship problem
• [18:27] — The bank account metaphor: why you have to make deposits before you can make withdrawals
• [22:11] — How remote and hybrid work is unwinding the basic building blocks of influence
• [25:19] — "Leaders should never eat alone" — the VP of HR who told Mike to put down his lunch and go to the cafeteria
• [29:24] — Relationship mapping and the "is this manipulation?" pushback Mike and Kent both get from clients
• [34:55] — Mike's summary: power fades fast, influence lasts long, and 80% of it is rapport
• [35:59] — Advice for promotion seekers: lead with authenticity over idealism
• [37:35] — Advice for the newly promoted: your fears haven't happened and probably won't — take the next step

Resources mentioned:

• Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi — the book on intentional relationship-building that came up in the conversation
• Teddy Roosevelt quote: "People don't care what you think until they think that you care"
• Trajectify — trajectify.com

Links for today's show:

• Mike Krupit on LinkedIn
• Trajectify
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

RJon Robins has spent 15+ years helping entrepreneurs stop working for their businesses and start building businesses that work for them. His new book — Truth, Lies, Mistakes or Bullshit: What's Driving Your Business? — started as a talk and became a business parable about what separates thriving organizations from struggling ones. Spoiler: it's not the business model. It's what's running in the owner's head.

We cover the seven parts of every business, why HR exiled itself to a compliance island, and what it means to invest in leadership before you actually need it.

Guest: RJon Robins is an 8-figure entrepreneur, licensed attorney, and bestselling author. He founded How to Manage a Small Law Firm in 2009 and has since achieved 8,000% revenue growth, with 600+ of the fastest-growing small law firm owners in the country as members. His company has been named to the INC 5000 every year since 2015 and recognized as an INC Best Place to Work.

In this episode:

• 00:02:06 — RJon's background: founding How to Manage a Small Law Firm and building a business he's away from 270 days a year
• 00:04:21 — What led to the book Truth, Lies, Mistakes or Bullshit and why it's written as a business parable
• 00:07:38 — The difference between owning a business and owning a job
• 00:10:40 — The 7 parts of every business: marketing, intake, production, people, physical plant, financial controls, and you
• 00:17:36 — The 7th part: your mindset is in the center of the clock, and it's affecting every other part
• 00:22:02 — Why HR should be called Human Development, and what it looks like when it's treated as a profit center
• 00:25:42 — "This is 100% HR's fault" — why HR exiled itself to the compliance island and what it costs them
• 00:32:13 — The Peter Principle in action: what GE and other big companies do differently with talent development
• 00:38:56 — How intrapreneurs can navigate any organization by understanding its core motivations
• 00:42:44 — The Doctrine of Sacrifice vs. the Doctrine of Profit — and what profit actually means as a voluntary exchange
• 00:46:43 — How RJon opens every interview: treating candidates as CEO of their own career
• 00:50:00 — Advice for leaders pursuing promotion, and for leaders on day two of a new role: pursue truth, find out what's real

Resources mentioned:

• Truth, Lies, Mistakes or Bullshit: What's Driving Your Business? by RJon Robins and John David Mann — truthliesmistakesorbs.com or order at Barnes & Noble (pre-order at time of recording)
• The Automatic Marketing Machine by RJon Robins (search on Amazon or Barnes & Noble)
• Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins (25,000+ copies sold; search on Amazon or Barnes & Noble)
• The Doctrine of Sacrifice vs. The Doctrine of Profit — RJon's proprietary framework on why suffering isn't a requirement for building a profitable business
• The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber (referenced on systems-driven business)
• Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
• The Peter Principle — concept by Laurence J. Peter (search "The Peter Principle book")

Links for today's show:

• RJon Robins on LinkedIn
• truthliesmistakesorbs.com
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

Tom Priebe spent 20-plus years in med device operations — but he'll tell you the function is secondary. This conversation is really about what it means to identity as a leader first, why your career is built on failure, and what it actually looks like to give your people the space to grow. Tom brings a VP-level perspective without any of the polish that usually comes with it.

Guest: Tom Priebe is VP of Global Operations at Bracco Medical Technologies, where he leads across functions he didn't start in — hired, as his boss put it, for his leadership.

In this episode:

• [02:16] — Tom's career path: IBM disk drives to med devices, and why purpose pulled him away from manufacturing
• [07:03] — Redefining what a good day looks like: "Did I actually do anything today?" and why planting seeds counts as work
• [08:29] — The sandwich years: why first-level managers carry the full weight of the organization, managing both up and down simultaneously
• [13:18] — The hardest thing to let go — and why it wasn't the technical work
• [15:09] — How to decide which mistakes to let people make: fixed vs. growth mindset cultures, and the engineer Tom intentionally set up to fail
• [17:24] — Why leaders should start with themselves when something goes sideways — not the employee
• [28:25] — Ego vs. humility: why ego locks you in and humility keeps you growable (via Ryan Holiday's Ego Is the Enemy)
• [32:15] — What readiness for the next level actually looks like: fire in the belly, and why Tom would rather tame a tiger than prod a panda
• [40:54] — Advice for leaders preparing for a promotion: write your resume of the future, then work backwards
• [42:43] — Advice for day one at the new level: stop performing, start listening — and why pushing too fast damages your reputation

Resources mentioned:

• The First 90 Days by Michael Watkins — Amazon — Tom's go-to recommendation for new leaders
• Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday — Amazon — referenced as the "Daily Stoic guy's" book on ego vs. humility
• StrengthsFinder (now CliftonStrengths) — gallup.com/cliftonstrengths — the assessment that told Tom he might make a good leader
• Improv as a leadership development tool — search for "improv leadership training" for programs near you

Links for today's show:

• Tom Priebe on LinkedIn
• Bracco Medical Technologies
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

Leaders love assessment data. Then it goes on a shelf. Former Hogan Assessments CEO Scott Gregory joins Kent to dig into why the gap between self-awareness and behavior change is so persistent — and what actually moves the needle. They cover how to filter what's worth developing, why context beats comprehensiveness, and the one question every leader should ask before acting on any piece of feedback.

Guest: Scott Gregory is an IO psychologist, former CEO of Hogan Assessments, and longtime executive coach and assessment practitioner with decades of experience in personality research and leadership development.

In this episode:

• 02:00 — Scott's career arc: professional musician to IO psychology PhD to PDI, Pentair, MDA Leadership, and ultimately CEO of Hogan Assessments
• 10:26 — Why assessment data ends up in a binder on a shelf — and what goes wrong between insight and action
• 13:04 — The data overload problem: leaders are rarely surprised by their feedback, so why are we giving them 75 pages?
• 19:37 — The definition of leadership nobody has (Scott once asked 50 Fortune 500 HR leaders to raise their hand — no one did)
• 20:31 — Hogan's working definition: leadership is the ability to develop and sustain a high performing and highly engaged team
• 21:01 — The shift from personal output to team output — why it's hard at every level of the pipeline, not just the first promotion
• 26:17 — Why personality is stable after 25 and what that means for development (it's a marathon, not a binder event)
• 28:48 — The "can do" vs. "will do" distinction — and why most leaders genuinely want to improve but still get stuck
• 33:53 — The one question Scott uses to filter assessment data into actual development priorities: "Will it help me help my team?"
• 35:02 — The coaching skills vs. vision-sharing example: why context determines which low scores actually matter
• 36:49 — Using team feedback as the bridge from assessment insight to action — and as the check afterward
• 40:19 — Advice for newly promoted leaders: the two herculean tasks of the transition, and why stopping yesterday's job is step one

Resources mentioned:

• Hogan Assessments — Scott's former company; extensive library of research articles and leadership resources
• Robert Hogan — personality psychologist, foundational figure in IO psychology and personality measurement
• Joyce Hogan — researcher and co-architect of Hogan Assessments' foundational work
• John Holland — Holland Codes / occupational interest theory; foundational framework for career interests and fit (search "Holland Codes career interests")
• Personnel Decisions International (PDI) — acquired by Korn Ferry; kornferry.com
• MDA Leadership — mdaleadership.com

Links for today's show:

• Scott Gregory on LinkedIn
• Hogan Assessments
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

Vulnerability and emotional intelligence keep coming up in leadership conversations — and Randy Lyman has a physicist's take on why. A patent-holding engineer who spent 36 years doing his own emotional work, Randy makes the case that the inner work isn't soft: it's the mechanism behind every result you care about. Kent and Randy unpack what leaders who want to grow actually have to let go of — and how showing up more honestly turns out to be the most effective thing you can do.

Guest: Randy Lyman is a physicist, serial entrepreneur, and authority on emotional intelligence — he founded and scaled multiple 8-figure companies (including an Inc. 500 business) before writing The Third Element, a #1 New Release in Personal Growth, on how emotional awareness drives leadership results.

In this episode:

• [02:05] — Randy's background: physicist, engineer, business owner — and how a three-year relationship in 1989 cracked open the emotional side of his leadership
• [03:48] — Why Randy thinks AI is a distraction from what actually matters: the emotional revolution, and what it means for leaders right now
• [07:51] — Before and after Randy: from fear-driven overachievement to service-based leadership, and the personal work that bridged the gap
• [09:12] — The three things every person on your team needs: acknowledgment, a sense of contribution, and a sense of belonging — and why they look different for every individual
• [12:16] — The three-minute investment: how remembering one personal detail about someone changes everything about how they show up for you
• [15:08] — Why the self-work has to come first: you can't hide your emotional state from the people you lead, and trying to hold it down makes it worse
• [22:12] — Randy as contradiction: how his left-brain credibility actually makes him a better messenger for emotional leadership with the leaders who need to hear it most
• [25:18] — Gender and leadership: why women leaders often over-index on masculine traits trying to prove themselves — and why men need to stop leaving their feminine leadership tools in the drawer
• [28:44] — The cross-functional breakdown story: how walking into a meeting saying "I don't know the answers — I need your help" unlocked results that months of planning couldn't
• [30:55] — Advice for leaders seeking promotion: stop performing, start multiplying — the results your team produces are the only currency that matters
• [33:27] — Advice for newly promoted leaders: make yourself unnecessary at the level you're at, and develop the leaders underneath you

Resources mentioned:

• The Third Element by Randy Lyman — available through Randy's website and major online booksellers (search "The Third Element Randy Lyman")
• Herb Kelleher and Southwest Airlines — Kelleher co-founded Southwest and built its people-first culture; his often-cited principle: take care of your people and they'll take care of your customers. (Note: the transcript spells this "Herb Keller" — the correct name is Herb Kelleher.)
• Tapping exercises / EFT — Randy references free tapping resources on his website

Links for today's show:

• Randy Lyman on LinkedIn
• Randy's Website: randylyman.com
• The Third Element (#1 New Release in Personal Growth) — available via randylyman.com and major booksellers
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

Trust isn't built through big gestures. It's built, and broken, through small ones. In this episode, Kent talks with leadership consultant and author Gerd Bents about his Leadership Map framework and what it actually takes to develop as a leader over time. The conversation covers why skills alone aren't enough, how AI is going to break human trust before it builds it, and what it means to lead from a place of courage rather than confidence.

Guest: Gerd Bents is a leadership consultant, coach, and author with nearly 30 years of experience working with executives and organizations through change, drawing on backgrounds in psychology, sociology, and leadership development.

In this episode:

• 02:10 — Gerd's background: from athletics to executive leadership consulting in the finance industry
• 03:42 — The Leadership Map: mindset, awareness, and practice as three dynamic, ongoing elements
• 06:45 — Why focusing only on skills is a fixed mindset trap
• 08:00 — Skills vs. mastery: using feedback as a case study, and getting your 10,000 reps
• 11:55 — AI, layoffs, and why human leadership skills are becoming more valuable, not less
• 18:33 — How trust erodes slowly and why AI is going to break it at scale
• 22:40 — Working with skeptical senior leaders in finance: how to bring mindset work to people who don't expect it
• 28:57 — The three illusions from Profound Space: confidence, information, and freedom
• 34:05 — Gerd's advice for leaders seeking promotion and leaders who just stepped up

Resources mentioned:

• Profound Space by Gerd Bents — createprofoundspace.com
• Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• Coachability by Kevin Wilde (Carlson School, former General Mills HR leader)
• Viktor Frankl on autonomy and mindset
• Simon Sinek on asking for advice instead of feedback
• Brene Brown on courage and vulnerability
• Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers

Links for today's show:

• Gerd Bents on LinkedIn (flag for Kent to fill in)
• createprofoundspace.com
• Profound Space Book
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

Most of us were taught that resilience means gritting your teeth and pushing through. Leadership advisor Angus Nelson challenges that idea head-on — and what he offers instead is both more practical and more human. In this conversation, Kent and Angus explore why a dysregulated nervous system is the most expensive bottleneck in any business, and what leaders can actually do about it.

Guest: Angus Nelson is the author of Neuro Resilient Leader and founder of Evolve Leadership — he helps high-performing leaders install what he calls Leadership Stability through his C³ Protocol: Clarity, Capacity, and Composure.

In this episode:

• [00:00] — Why resilience is about becoming, not pressing through
• [02:26] — Angus's origin story: losing $72K, hitting rock bottom, and finding a new path
• [06:45] — Redefining resilience: from white-knuckling to absorbing life's lessons
• [09:31] — Why you can't outwork the pace of AI and market velocity
• [13:18] — The C³ Protocol: Clarity, Capacity, and Composure unpacked
• [25:54] — Leadership stability as infrastructure: how a dysregulated leader creates a dysregulated team
• [29:45] — Practical tools: breathwork, EFT tapping, visualization, meditation, and rewriting your narrative
• [37:58] — Certainty addiction: why waiting to feel confident is a trap
• [45:03] — Humanity as competitive advantage in an AI-driven world

Resources mentioned:

• Neuro Resilient Leader by Angus Nelson — freebook.vip (free copy + 10-day experience at time of recording)
• C³ Protocol (Clarity, Capacity, Composure) — Angus's leadership framework
• EFT Tapping (Emotional Freedom Technique) — search "EFT tapping" for tutorials
• Box breathing / breathwork — widely covered on YouTube and in wellness resources
• Jack Dorsey's memo on middle management and player-coach leadership — search "Jack Dorsey middle management memo"

Links for today's show:

• Angus Nelson on LinkedIn
• angusnelson.com
• Neuro Resilient Leader — freebook.vip
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

• Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

What happens when your technical brilliance gets you promoted — and then becomes your biggest liability? Frank Sherwood spent his early career as a high-performing engineer who needed "finishing school" to survive leadership. In this conversation, Frank traces his career from aerospace engineering at Rosemount to managing a 500-site global real estate portfolio to joining CBRE — and what each transition demanded of him as a leader.

Guest: Frank Sherwood is First Vice President at CBRE, with a 20+ year career in corporate real estate spanning leadership roles at JLL, Staubach, Cushman & Wakefield, and CRESA, including managing real estate portfolios across 75 countries.

In this episode:

• 0:00 — Cold open: Frank's mentor on delivering hard messages with grace
• 3:25 — How Frank went from entry-level engineer to engineering manager almost overnight at Rosemount Aerospace
• 4:31 — The performance review that sent him to "finishing school" — and why people skills became the priority
• 6:30 — Crossing to the service provider side: why Frank called his old vendor to apologize
• 10:27 — Why hiring to your weak side (not your strength) leads to better leadership
• 12:35 — Building cross-functional alliances: lessons from Roger Staubach on client service and peer relationships
• 16:27 — Practical advice for leaders new to a role: ask questions before making decisions
• 25:17 — How to position yourself for promotion: anticipate your boss's needs before they ask
• 27:11 — Frank's core leadership belief: dignity, fairness, and respect for everyone

Resources mentioned:

• What Got You Here Won't Get You There — Marshall Goldsmith (referenced by Kent) — amazon.com search
• How to Win Friends and Influence People — Dale Carnegie (Frank references the Carnegie principle on helping others get what they want) — amazon.com search
• Harvard Business Review — hbr.org
• The Economist — economist.com
• Roger Staubach / The Staubach Company — now part of JLL (search "Roger Staubach commercial real estate")
• Vern Heath, founder of Rosemount Aerospace (historical reference)
• CBRE — cbre.com

Links for today's show:

• Frank Sherwood on LinkedIn
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

• Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

Most companies measure engagement once a year and then throw a happy hour at the results. Seth Thomas, HR leader at Claris Health, argues that's exactly backwards — engagement lives in the 364 other days, not the survey or the social event. In this conversation, Kent and Seth dig into the real relationship between engagement and performance, why feedback culture is harder to build than it looks, and what leading a fully remote workforce of 30+ states has taught Seth about making connection feel less optional.

Guest: Seth Thomas is an HR leader at Claris Health with a background in industrial-organizational psychology, focused on engagement, performance, and building feedback cultures inside software organizations.

In this episode:

• 01:49 — Seth's background: I/O psychology, MTSU grad school, and why he chose in-house HR over consulting
• 06:32 — Why Seth sees engagement as a measure of culture, not just a survey score
• 07:51 — Buffalo Wild Wings case study: tying engagement data directly to beer and wing sales
• 10:29 — The biggest gap Seth sees: expectations and the cost of delayed feedback
• 14:14 — Why managers know feedback matters and still don't give enough of it
• 22:58 — Happy hours as attraction tools, not retention tools — and what actually moves the needle
• 30:16 — Cross-functional tension in software teams and why your direct manager often isn't the person most affecting your engagement
• 39:27 — Leading a fully virtual, 30-state workforce: cameras, recognition rhythms, and recreating the hallway bump
• 44:58 — Advice for leaders looking to get promoted: your team's performance is your performance
• 46:22 — Advice for newly promoted leaders: document, share expectations, and build real-time feedback loops

Resources mentioned:

• Getting Things Done by David Allen — the two-minute rule and task capture system Seth references
• Gallup engagement research — stat referenced: 75%+ of employees want feedback
• Crucial Conversations / Crucial Feedback training (referenced by Claris Health's internal training team)

Links for today's show:

• Seth Thomas on LinkedIn
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

• Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.

What actually changes when you stop being the best individual contributor in the room and start being responsible for the people around you? Nicole Nelson has navigated that question at every level of a 20+ year career in CPG sales, from her first people management role covering Southern California and Hawaii to leading cross-functional teams as a Senior Director. In this conversation, she gets specific about the moments that forced her to recalibrate, the mentors who saved her, and why self-assurance beats imposter syndrome every time.

Guest: Nicole Nelson is Senior Director of Sales, Distribution and Sales Planning at CJ Schwan's, with a career spanning General Mills, Lactalis, and roles across retail and food service sales.

In this episode:

• 00:02:45 — Nicole's career path: from General Mills sales intern to Senior Director across retail, food service, and sales ops
• 00:12:00 — The first people management role: why even high performers struggle to leave the doing behind
• 00:14:51 — The manager who reset her on day one: "You're not doing the job we hired you for"
• 00:18:58 — Redefining what a "solid day's work" looks like as you move up
• 00:27:23 — The jump to director at General Mills: no onboarding, high stakes, and leading alongside
• 00:32:13 — Managing former peers, former mentors, and the person who wanted the job you got
• 00:38:54 — The loneliness of leadership and why being close-vested is part of the job
• 00:42:43 — Nicole's single best piece of advice for newly promoted leaders: find a feedback partner

Resources mentioned:

• "No bad teams, only bad leaders" — a leadership principle Nicole references throughout (associated with Jocko Willink's Extreme Ownership, search for this)
• The concept of "leadership aspiration vs. leadership drive" — referenced by Kent from his consulting background in assessment and succession planning
• Swiss army knife career development — building breadth of skills before depth of title (no specific resource; Nicole references a mentor who shaped this philosophy)

Links for today's show:

• Nicole Nelson on LinkedIn
• Kent Kniebel on LinkedIn
• The Promoted Leader Toolkit

Music for this podcast comes from a live recording of the song Needle & Thread and is provided with permission by Pert' Near Sandstone. Check them out on pertnearsandstone.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Enjoyed the episode? Leave a rating and review wherever you listen — it helps more leaders find the show.