In this episode of the Sumner Files, Adam talks with photographer and graphic designer Julia Gorton about her experiences in downtown Manhattan in the 1970s, and they share memories of Sumner. With Rick Brown, Julia produced the fanzine Beat It in the late 1970s, and that got her into shows free so that she could photograph people at CBGBs and Max’s and so on. She became friends with the no wave bands, and with Sumner in particular, joining adventures with him and Rudolph Grey, such as interviewing catholic schoolgirls in Brooklyn, and recording them for posterity. Many years later, after a long career as a designer and educator, Julia pulled her old photos out of the drawer, and they became part of the revival of interest in no wave. Her photos, including several of Sumner, appeared in Thurston Moore and Byron Coley’s book No Wave: Post-Punk. Underground. New York 1976-1980, and then she started putting them on social media and showing them in galleries. More recently she has published her own book, Nowhere New York, with new original essays by many important participants from the time as well as many beautiful photos, and re-released all the issues of Beat It in an anthology. These volumes, and Julia’s photos, are among the most definitive, compelling and beautiful visual documents of the no wave scene in general and Sumner in particular during this time. You can find Julia’s books, t-shirts, and more at www.juliagorton.com. This conversation was recorded in July 2024.