The SurgeonMasters Podcast

Jeff welcomes to the podcast psychologist, success coach and author of the international bestseller, “The 7E Solution to Burnout” -  Dr. Sharon Grossman.

In her book, Dr. Grossman offers strategies for people in high stress professions (particularly physicians) to be able to coach themselves through burnout. Many people don’t have a firm grasp on the symptoms of burnout. As a result, they’re unable to accurately self-diagnose burnout and get the help they need. 

There’s also a stigma around burnout - especially in the medical community, which prevents physicians from admitting they’re burned out. It’s important to understand that burnout is nothing to be ashamed of. It’s not the result of a moral failing or something you did wrong. 

One of the most common symptoms of burnout that doesn’t get enough attention is irritability.

What steps does Dr. Grossman suggest we take to reduce our irritability?

• Step 1 - Identify your thoughts and feelings. If you find yourself feeling irritable, recognize that it has to do with the way you’re thinking. The thinking pattern that’s aligned with irritability is using the word “should” (how a situation should be different, or how an individual should be behaving). This type of thinking guarantees irritability. Ask yourself how you want to feel about a given situation. You have a choice in the matter!

• Step 2 - Consider your coping mechanisms. A glass of wine after a long shift (or a cup of coffee before an early shift) can be great, but don’t rely too heavily on these band-aid approaches to high performance.

• Step 3 - Start decreasing irritability by focusing on what you can control.

Dr. Sharon Grossman is a psychologist, success coach, and the author of The 7E Solution to Burnout: Transforming High Achievers from Exhausted to Extraordinary. For the past two decades, she has coached physicians struggling with anxiety, overwhelm, and burnout. Dr. Grossman works with them to stay calm, even in situations that are seemingly scary, to effectively manage the demands on their time, and quickly bounce back from adversity. Visit her at: www.drsharongrossman.com

Jeff welcomes to the podcast Dr. Darin Davidson - an orthopedic surgeon and health & wellness consultant. 

Darin argues that we can and should be doing a much better job of practicing holistic wellness in our careers and in our lives. That means integrating the complementary areas of psychology, nutrition, sleep, and more to help better develop our overall health and wellness (for ourselves and our patients). By improving our overall performance as surgeons, we can improve the care we provide to patients and decrease our chances of burnout.

We all want to provide the best possible care to our patients. In order to do that, we need to be performing at our best day after day. This can be difficult due to the demands of being a surgeon. These holistic methods can help keep us practicing at our best.

What steps does Darin suggest we do to practice holistic wellness?

• Step 1 - Get in touch with your passion and purpose. This can serve as a guiding light in your day-to-day life as a surgeon.

• Step 2 - Remember what drew you to the medical profession in the first place. This can help you rediscover your purpose and reignite your passion.

• Step 3 - Start integrating holistic wellness practices into your daily life.

Darin’s mission is to improve the health and wellness of everyone through the integration of holistic principles within the traditional medical model. By combining the best available knowledge and evidence from all fields which contribute to human performance and wellness, such as medicine, psychology, sleep, nutrition, and exercise we can obtain the greatest level of wellbeing. For the greatest impact, these skills should be developed as early as possible so that they can be available when needed most.

Jeff welcomes to the podcast Dr. Kara Pepper, a practicing primary care physician, as well as a certified life coach!

The topic for today’s podcast is Imposter Syndrome.

Kara worked as a professional ballet dancer after high school. After a brief career filled with injuries, she needed to find a different occupation. So she went to medical school. Throughout her training she always had the nagging thought - “how did I trick these people into letting a ballet dancer go to medical school?”

That sense of being an imposter is a common feeling among many physicians. While Jeff thinks this is partially related to heavier doses of “mentor” critiques and our negative inner critic, some of us feel like imposters - that we don’t deserve to be where we are, that we’re not smart enough, good enough, etc. This can lead to feelings of inadequacy despite objective success.

What steps does Kara suggest we do to reckon with imposter syndrome?

• Step 1 - Understand that EVERYONE has some degree of imposter syndrome.

• Step 2 - Recognize that you have an internal narrative and acknowledge its nature. Is it self-effacing? Does it develop opportunities for growth?

• Step 3 - Shift your narrative by focusing on positive thinking and use your imposter syndrome to improve yourself.

Dr. Kara Pepper is a practicing primary care Internist, Certified Life Coach, and primary care physician for Atlanta Ballet. Dr. Pepper helps physicians love the life they worked so hard to create. She specializes in burnout, perfectionism, and imposter syndrome. She provides one-on-one and group coaching and speaks on topics surrounding burnout and physician wellness. 

Jeff welcomes back to the podcast, Dr. Kyle Jones, Associate Professor in the Department of Family & Preventive Medicine at the University of Utah.

Kyle’s book, Fallible: A Memoir of a Young Physician’s Struggle with Mental Illness, explores a lot of serious issues that impact many medical students and physicians throughout their careers. Over 40% of medical interns have diagnosable depression, while almost a quarter of interns have thought about suicide in the past two weeks. Those are horrifying statistics that we need to confront head-on.

We need to open up the conversation to reduce the stigma of mental health and depression in the medical community. Physicians need to understand that it’s OK to seek help for these issues. As physicians, we need to do a better job about taking our own advice. We’re very good at telling our patients to eat well and exercise regularly but are often terrible at incorporating that advice into our own lives. Even though it’s likely not our fault that we have a mental illness, there are things you can be doing to proactively address your situation. If we’re not taking care of ourselves, we’re actually doing more harm than good.

One great method for dealing with stress and anxiety is developing coping skills. It’s important to develop numerous coping skills to deal with stressors as they arise. Having just one coping skill is not enough. We need to develop several in the event that we are unable to tap into a specific coping skill.

How does Kyle suggest we address the problem of mental illness in the medical community?

• Suggestion 1 - Recognize the issue. We need to be up-front in recognizing mental illness and have proactive conversations about how to address it.

• Suggestion 2 -  Develop your coping skills. Work on developing multiple coping skills to help you deal with stress and anxiety.

• Suggestion 3 - Find a trusted confidant who you can talk to about these issues. This could be a family member, friend, or colleague.

Kyle is an Associate Professor (Clinical) in the Department of Family and Preventive Medicine at the University of Utah School of Medicine. He completed his training at the Medical College of Wisconsin, and then residency at the University of Utah. He is author of Fallible: a memoir of a young physician's struggle with mental illness, and is currently Past-President of the Utah Academy of Family Physicians. He lives in Salt Lake City with his wife and four children. 

Jeff welcomes back to the podcast SurgeonMasters collaborator and Emmy-award winning documentary filmmaker Robyn Symon. 

Last time she was on the podcast, we talked about Robyn’s documentary film Do No Harm which investigates the high rate of burnout and suicide among physicians and how it links to medical errors and patient safety. And with September being National Suicide Awareness Month, we thought it was the right time to bring her back for an extended conversation. 

You would think that the medical field would hold itself to a higher standard when it comes to the health and well-being of its own. But in fact, the opposite is true. In general, it seems like people in medicine treat themselves and their colleagues with less regard for their well-being. 

We’re focused so much on the “demand” and an assembly line model of care. But no one is focusing on the “supply” of physicians needed to take care of the demand. If we don’t address the supply (or doctor) side of the issue, patient care will suffer.

Doctors also face tremendous risk when bringing these issues to light. Administrators often see them as “complaining” or “rocking the boat.” As a result, many physicians don’t want to speak out for fear of losing their jobs. We need to educate both physicians and administrators about how to effectively address these issues.

The relationship between patients and physicians is eroding. Physicians want to spend more time with patients, but they’re being beaten down by this assembly line model of care. When patients see that they’re stuck in the same “assembly line” model, it really helps build back that trusting doctor-patient relationship.

What steps does Robyn suggest we do to address the systemic issues causing suicide in the medical community?

• Step 1 - Realize that physicians are human beings, not superheroes.

• Step 2 -  Work with colleagues, patients, and administrators to continue the conversation on these important topics.

• Step 3 - Don’t be afraid to rock the boat! We need to collectively start speaking up on these issues for the betterment of ourselves and our patients.

Email Robyn and the Do No Harm team: [email protected]

Robyn Symon is a two-time Emmy Award-winner, and an accomplished writer, producer/director, and editor. She began as a television news reporter in Texas, then joined PBS in Miami where she hosted and produced documentaries, public affairs programs and the TV series Florida! (6 seasons; Travel Channel). She wrote and produced the docu-series “Voices of Vision,” which focused on the work of non-profit organizations worldwide. She has produced hundreds of hours of TV series for major cable networks including Discovery, CNBC, HGTV and currently produces a series on the Reelz Channel. Prior film credits include: “Transformation: The Life & Legacy of Werner Erhard,” acquired for international distribution by Screen Media Films and “Behind the Blue Veil,” about the ancient Tuareg in North Africa, which was distributed by Journeyman Pictures. Her most recent documentary—“Uncle Gloria: One Helluva Ride!” — is currently on the film festival circuit.

Jeff welcomes to the podcast SurgeonMasters collaborator and physician coach, Dr. Errin Weisman. 

On this episode, Errin and Jeff talk about different coaching styles and clarify what coaching is.

Errin uses her energy and experience in coaching to provide lots of encouragement. As a coach, she is not telling people what to do. There are a lot of misconceptions about coaching - with many people assuming it’s like therapy or an advisor / advisee relationship. It’s important to clarify these misconceptions around coaching so physicians have a better understanding of what it is and why it is so incredibly effective.

Coaching conversations help their physician clients process thoughts, feelings, and actions. Coaches don't offer firm answers like advisors or consultants might. The physician, not the coach, holds the answers. Coaches help their coachees find those answers.

What steps does Errin suggest we take to start down the path of coaching?

• Step 1 - Give coaching a try! Go ahead and “kick the tires” and take coaching for a spin to see what it is like.

• Step 2 - Find a coach with whom you can connect or who is offering messaging that resonates with you. All coaches bring different styles to the table. Find one who fits well with your personality.

• Step 3 - Don’t give up. If your first experience with coaching isn’t great, that’s OK. Finding the right fit is part of the process.

Errin Weisman, DO is a life coach, podcaster, and fierce advocate for wellness in medicine. She faced professional burnout early in her career and speaks openly about about her story in order to help others, particularly female physicians and working moms, know they are not alone. Dr. Weisman wholeheartedly believes that to be a healer, you must first fill your own cup. She lives and practices life coaching and medicine in rural Southwestern Indiana, loves her roles as farmer's wife, athlete, and mother of three. You can find out more about Dr. Weisman on her podcast Doctor Me First, her website truthrxs.com or hang out with her on IG @truthrxs.