I am completely unable to navigate small talk.  I am great at introductions, public speaking, etc.  I just can’t seem to have a conversation that works.  Worse, I am often totally misunderstood.  Walter, Self Employed, Watchmaker (excerpted from Aspergers on the Job, by Rudy Simone).

Have you ever seen ants on a wooded path?  They parade down the path, and as they meet, they touch their antennae, communicating with each other.  That’s what small talk does for neurotypicals.  Small talk helps them feel comfortable with each other, builds relationships and trust, and helps them get along.

Now, have you ever heard of the science experiment in which mice receive random shocks?  After a while, they are stressed beyond belief.  Small talk is like those random electric shocks that make autism employment incredibly stressful for adults with Aspergers and high functioning autism.

Rudy Simone addresses small talk in her book, Aspergers on the Job.   Why is it so hard for people with Aspergers to tolerate?

In her chapter, The Big Consequences of Small Talk, she explains that people on the autism spectrum are practical people with narrow interests.  So it makes no sense to them to talk about something they aren’t interested in.  Second, small talk means different things to non-Aspergians/autistics versus Aspies.  Whereas small talk means safety and security to neurotypicals, small talk signals danger to Aspies.

Here are some tips from Rudy Simone for employees dealing with small talk and autism employment:

* Recognize the why behind your hostility toward small talk.  The information above should help both you and others understand why it’s hard for you.

* You can learn some short responses to “get you through” small talk.  Talking briefly about the sports or about the weather may take the pressure off of you to say something more creative, and you’ll gain a level of acceptance.

* Don’t judge non-autistics.  Realize that small talk is their way of communicating with each other.  While you don’t have to engage in it, don’t come across as judging others, because they’ll pick up on it.  [And non-autistics should not judge you, either]

* You may be able to shift the “small talk” to something more interesting.  But do it gradually, without being condescending.

* Start a blog.   Many adults with Aspergers are very gifted writers.  As you learn to express yourself in writing, you’ll perhaps gain confidence with expressing yourself in person.  And you’ll find that you connect with like minded, affirming Aspies and non-Aspies on the web.

* Holiday parties and other social outings can be stressful, but you may regret not going if you don’t try.  Socializing takes practice and training.  Seek advice from someone about what to wear.  Go to the outing with a trusted friend or partner.

* Seek social skills training help when you need it, or read books that will help you gradually improve your social interaction skills.  Here are some suggested books and sites:

* The Hidden Curriculum

* Improve Your Social Skills

* How to Talk to Anyone

Imagine trying to build a rocket by watching YouTube videos, talking on snapchat, or watching TV.

That would be hard!  And can you imagine what that rocket would look like once you were done?

In this episode, I’m speaking with Dr. Rachel Loftin, PhD, who’s an expert in discussing autism and sex.

She joined the Thrive with Aspergers podcast previously to talk about adult autism diagnosis.

In This Episode You’ll Learn

Why sex education is important

How sex education should be different for autism spectrum

Increase in use of pornography to get sex education versus comprehensive course about health human sexuality

Accepting media or pornography as reality – that’s now how things work – it’s fantasy content that does not reflect what sex is in reality

Making healthy choices

Benefits and challenges of autism spectrum and sexuality

High stakes, high complexity, high consequence

The challenge of having interests that minors may have – as an adult or young adult, be sure to check about the age of the person you’re interacting with online – this will protect you from being targeted as a potential child predator, for example

How to protect ourselves or others from illegal sexual activities

Don’t follow examples from the media as the reality of the way things are – read accurate, reality based sex education materials

Autism and Sex Resources Recommended By Dr. Loftin

Legal

The Autism Spectrum, Sexuality, and the Law: What Every Parent and Professional Needs To Know, by Dubin, Henault, and Attwood.

Sex Education

Intimate Relationships and Sexual Health: A Curriculum For Teaching Adolescents/Adults with High Functioning Autism and Other Social Challenges, by Catherine Davies and Melissa Dubie.

Autism-Asperger’s and Sexuality: Puberty and Beyond, by Jerry and Melissa Newport

Couples/Marriage

Marriage and Lasting Relationships with Aspergers/Autism, by Eva A. Mendes

(You can also listen to a couple Thrive with Aspergers episodes by Eva Mendes here and

“I felt like a bird uncaged”

Liane Holliday Wiley – (when she discovered her Aspergers diagnosis)

Liane Holliday Willey: Pretending To Be Normal

Liane Holliday Wiley is an Aspergian woman who for years pretended to be normal.

Liane’s varied roles include professor (she holds a Doctorate in Education in Psycholinguistics), author, consultant.  She also owns and runs an equine boarding and training facility in Sparta, Michigan.

It was Liane who first introduced me to the world of Aspergers, long before my son was diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum.

She is a keynote speaker at autism conferences all over the world.

According to Brains Potential,

Liane has been featured in The USA Today, Psychology Today, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, The Kansas City Star, Register-Guard, The Grand Rapids Press, ABC News, The Associated Press, Newsweek, BBC 4, several NPR broadcasts and many international publications. Liane has also been featured in three DVDs- Asperger Syndrome: Crossing the Bridge, Ask me About Asperger Syndrome, and Women with AS: Staying Healthy & Safe.

 

In This Episode, You’ll Learn

How Liane’s childhood, family, and current experiences influence what kinds of books and topics she has written about

Her past traumatic experiences as an Asperigan woman dealing with sensory challenges and misreading social cues, and how she has addressed that trauma, teaching safety skills to other Aspergian women

Leanne’s process of getting an Aspergers diagnosis: not once, not twice, but three times!

How Leanne “succeeded” through her elementary and high school academics, but “fell apart” in college.  “I didn’t know how to act, or react to information, people, and places that came my way.”

Regarding “pretending to be normal”:  “I can hold it together for 2-3 hours, but I can’t hold it together 24×7, 365”

Why supportive community is so key in countering people’s stigmas about anyone is who different.

Liane’s father, also most likely Aspergian, and the powerful positive role he played in her life, helping her see that her neurology was, in many ways, equal or superior to, “typical” neurology

Differences between Aspergian women versus Aspersion men, from Liane’s point of view

Sensory processing difficulties: what they are, and how she has coped with them.

How auditory processing deficits, plus literal thinking, plus theory of mind difficulties make it difficult to communicate

How helpful animals can be to calm and soothe Aspergians and autistics.

Links and Resources Mentioned In This Episode

Dr. Liane Holliday Willey’s books:

Pretending To Be Normal

Safety Skills For Aspergers Women

Asperger ...

How to Find Friends

Introduction – Someone To Show Me “How”

I don’t know if you’re like me, but I like someone to show me how to do some things before I try them.

For example, as a therapist, I know how important deep breathing and progressive muscle relaxation is for helping people reduce physical and mental stress. (see here and here for scientific research about the benefits)

I had read about how to these exercises, but nothing quite helped me as much as watching a couple of videos of psychologists teaching these exercises to kids.

The psychologists, from the University of North Carolina, had received lots of training and guidance in these exercises.

At some point in life we all struggle to find friends.

A big thanks to my friend Marc who gave me a book by Dr. Elizabeth Laugeson, PsyD, author of The Science of Making Friends: Helping Socially Challenged Teens and Young Adults

Dr. Laugeson and her colleagues show us how to find friends.

She and her team of researchers at the UCLA PEERS groups have studied social skills and “what works” in creating friendships.

They have broken down seemingly complex social skills from what people call an “art” to more of a “science.”

Here’s what Dr. Laugeson says:

Although it may be true that some have a natural knack for conversational arts, it’s not necessarily true that all social skills are hardwired or fixed.  What if conversational skills, and more broadly social skills, were not an art but a science?  Our research in social skills training for teens and young adults with social difficulties is based on this premise.

And my premise for you, if you are a middle or later aged adult on the spectrum, is that you can learn these skills as well.

#1 Know Yourself

Friendships often form around shared interests.  Therefore it’s important to know what your own interests are.

The reason that identifying your interests is so important is that friendships are based on common interests.  It’s your common interests that give you things to talk about and things to do with your friends.  If you don’t have things in common with your friends, it may be harder to socialize and get close.

Dr. Elizabeth Laugeson, page 43 The Science of Making Friends

Want a list of interests to jog your memory?

Thank you to my Thrive with Aspergers Autism Community for sharing some of your interests with me to pass along to you:

Running

Autism and Aspergers (learning more about it)

Reading

Cooking

Crafting

History

Nutrition

Fitness

Sports

Science

Animals

Dog Training

Etsy

Pokemon

The list goes on!

Once you know your interests, you can find other people who share those same interests.  It gives you something to talk about.

Clay Marzo, Darryl Hannah, Temple Grandin are just a few famous people with autism.  Each one has strengths and weaknesses.  So do you.

Every person, whether famous or not, has gifts, talents, and purpose.  And everyone who perseveres despite flaws and adversity makes a difference in the world.

Here’s a portrait of another famous person with autism, and how he can teach you about your own potential?  Read on to find out more about Tim Burton.

“I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.”  Helen Keller

Timothy Walter “Tim” Burton is an American film director, film producer, writer, artist and animator.  His awards include Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Children’s Animated Program, Future Film Festival Digital Award, and National Board of Review Award for Best Director.

Facts About His Life

He spent most of his childhood as a recluse.  He was a very introspective person, and enjoyed painting, drawing, and watching films.

Tim Burton hasn’t been formally diagnosed with autism, but he identifies with the condition.

His ex-wife, Helena Bonham Carter, informally diagnosed him with Asperger’s syndrome.

While she was researching for a film she had a bit of an “a-ha moment” when so many of the symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome lined up with the traits that she loves in her husband. Helena says: “We were watching a documentary about autism and he said that’s how he felt as a child. Autistic people have application and dedication. You can say something to Tim when he’s working and he doesn’t hear you. But that quality also makes him a fantastic father, he has an amazing sense of humour and imagination. He sees things other people don’t see.”  Tim Burton autism claims

Does He Have Autism, or Doesn’t He?

Here’s a thread from Wrong Planet, where different people with Aspergers voiced their opinions:

I don’t think he does, by virtue of the fact that he’s a director which is a job i’d imagine requires lots of human interaction and getting large groups of people to do as you please. Surely that would be extremely difficult for someone with asperger’s.

But then again, Spielberg is officially an aspie…

It is fairly narrow to assume someone with AS cannot be a director. Obsessive interest, the capacity to hyperfocus, a capacity to communicate and talk in relation to a special interest…. persevering with specific goals, attention to detail….

Directing does not require “social” engagement with others. It simply requires the communication of what needs to be done. He would be working within the realm of a special interest………

I’ve asked this before, I used to be a frequent visitor at a Tim Burton forum, and this question would crop up once in a while. I would think so, from watching Edward Scissorhands, and from seeing in interviews, he’s got a very soft voice, and he’s always gesturing to get his point across,

Job counseling.  It’s one of the most pressing topics for spectrum adults.

One of the best parts of my role here at Thrive with Aspergers is talking to experts from all walks of life.

In this episode, I talked to Barbara Bissonnette from Forward Motion Coaching about your questions.

Barbara joined the Thrive with Aspergers podcast in Episode 5, and she’s back to give us more advice!

Job Counseling Questions You Asked: And Barbara Answered

1.  The statistics indicate that roughly 80% of autistics (people with autism, if you prefer – I don’t) are unemployed or underemployed. I wonder what the stats would really be, as most of us who function well enough to hold a job are not “affected enough” by autism to have been diagnosed (at all, or until later in life, or by self-diagnosis only). Therefore, we’ve been excluded from these statistics. Especially since Aspergers was not a recognized diagnosis until 1993 (I think), and was not absorbed into the autism diagnosis until the DSM-5 came out in 2013.

2.  My kiddo is only 8 years old so we do have a ways to go before worrying about the real world stuff like how he will handle the ups and downs of a job but this is a topic that does interest me.  I am curious if there is any types of training courses for people with Autism to help them adjust to the environments that they will be introduced to when entering into the work force?  Are there certain jobs that prove to be more difficult for people who are on the spectrum?  If so, should these types of jobs be avoided for first timers or would it be helpful to show them how to adapted and overcome some of the struggles in these particular careers?

3.  With regard to the session on Aspergers and employment, I am really interested in tips on how to deal with a boss who is a bully. I know that changing jobs would be an obvious answer, but this isn’t really a viable option for me right now and, apart from my difficult boss, my job is not all that bad. I work part-time in a records management role, which in some ways is ideal for my obsession for detail, although there are other obsessions such as writing for a living that I’d rather be working in (but that is a work in progress!) However, I experience ongoing anxiety about what my boss is going to find wrong with me next, which colours every day of my work in this job. Add that to the over-stimulation of working in an office and I am generally pretty exhausted by the end of the week, even though I’ve only spent 3 8-hour days at the job. I don’t want to spend the rest of my working life in this job and also have a part-time business teaching Pilates (which I love but don’t want to do full-time). I am looking at my future work options and how to get there but in the meantime, I really need to make this job work for me as it is the main source of income for me and my husband and I can’t afford to just leave it.

4.  Do you recommend that someone tell their employer they have been told by their therapist they have Aspergers? My concern is that my employer could potentially use it against me.

5.  It seems my NT co-workers are much more proficient than I at playing the office politics. I generally ignore the politics and just focus on doing my work with excellence. However, I have found that this puts me at a disadvantage at times as I am not brought into the “inner circle” as often as my NT co-workers.

The Ugly Duckling, Self-Identification, and You

According to Dictionary.com, self-identification is defined as

identification of oneself with some other person or thing.

We all know the story about the Ugly Duckling.

I’ve always loved the story, because I can relate.  There’ve been times in my life when I felt like an ugly duckling, not quite belonging.

Perhaps you’ve felt that way, too.

Too bad the ugly duckling didn’t know sooner about self-identification.

Today I’ll share three ways that self-identification will change your life for the better.

Autistic adults go through nine developmental stages of growth during their lifespan. (Source: The Nine Degrees of Autism).

The first degree of autism is being born on the autism spectrum.

In the story of the “ugly” duckling, the baby swan is born into a family of ducklings.  By definition, the swan is different than the ducklings.

The second degree of autism is knowing that we are different, without understanding why.

When his duckling parents and siblings rejected him, the ugly duckling knew he was different.  When he looked at his reflection in the water, he knew he was different but didn’t understand why.

As an autistic, you’ve more than likely felt different.   Maybe your parents, siblings, or peers didn’t understand autism, so they tried to make you be more like them.  Over time, you realized you thought and felt differently than so many people around you.

The third degree of autism is developing secondary health issues.

Like the ‘ugly duckling’, the autistic person may experience ridicule/teasing/bullying.  He may be excluded from society, or treated as inferior within the family.  These factors, in turn, can lead to depression, anxiety, insomnia, stress.

When feeling depressed, sleepless, anxious, and stressed, how can you or I grow?

That’s where the fourth step of autism comes: self-identification.

Everyone can grow by learning about self-identification.

Self-Identification Offers A Solidified and More Accurate Self-Perception

Successful self-identification gradually evolves from initial disequilibrium to a newly formed and eventually solidified and accurate self-perception.  Old memories and experiences are now filtered through a clearer lens, and your life story emerges with more clarity as previously confusing experiences begin to make sense.  (Dr. Debra Moore, PhD, The Nine Degrees of Autism)

Imagine thinking your a duckling, and not a very good one at that, during your whole life.  Then you find out you’re a swan!  It boggles the mind, then brings things into focus.

Self-Identification Offers You Space And Time To Learn About Yourself

Both Dr. Moore (author of the chapter on Self-Identification in the Nine Degrees of Autism) and others in the Wrong Planet forums advise against self-diagnosing.

During the period of self-identification there may be a long time when you’re exploring whether you may be on the spectrum.  It’s okay to take your time, because a) it may take a while to receive a diagnosis, and b) you don’t want to jump to conclusions.

You may want to try some online autism quizzes , but remember that these are only screening tools that don’t take the place of an official diagnosis.

In the words of a

“The best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago – the second best time is today.”

Chinese proverb, as quoted by Daniel Wendler from ImproveYourSocialSkills.com

Daniel Wendler Talks About Social Skills Training

As an adult, have you ever felt that life has passed you by?  Maybe you were diagnosed with Aspergers later in life and you’re trying to make sense of it all.

Or maybe you just think that you can’t learn certain skills, including social skills, because you’re autistic.

Aspergian Daniel Wendler is here to challenge you!  Daniel moderates the Reddit social skills forum where over 100,000 people are developing their social skills!

In this interview, I continue to talk with Daniel Wendler about growth mindset about social skills training.

Every Aspergian and non-Aspergian can improve their quality of life by adopting a growth mindset.  I’ve attached an in

Questions You Asked:

Question 1:  I don’t know if this is considered to be a social question or not?  But starting next week I am about to be around several people, and will most certainly need to do presentations to them at some point.  I am absolutely terrified of that.  (When I’m in front of a group, my heart pounds to the point I’m afraid I’ll have a heart attack, my voice quivers, my mind shuts down, I can’t think of the words to say, sometimes I say things that aren’t true and I have no idea why, …).

I am 41, and I have tried books, speaking classes (like Toastmasters).  I literally think public speaking could physically kill me!

Question 2:  I would like to know how someone who is diagnosed with Aspergers late in life (around 50) can escape underemployment.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

Easy ways to think about growth mindset for learning new skills

How a growth mindset differs from a fixed growth mindset

Daniel’s example from life of how he changed from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset in learning to cook

Common fixed growth mindset thoughts about social skills:  “I’m on the spectrum, if you want me to socialize, I’m going home to be alone.  “I’ll try this one socializing event, but if it doesn’t work, I’m giving up forever, because I’m no good at this”

Growth mindset – How to counteract some of the fixed mindset thoughts

How to celebrate small and frequent successes during the process of learning new skills or working on a new goal

The importance of a safe community, mentors, and coaches

It’s never too late to learn and grow

Links and Resources:

Connect with Daniel Wendler

Dan’s Website: http://www.danielwendler.com/

Improve Your Social Skills

Find Daniel on LinkedIn, Twitter or Google+.

Daniel Wendler’s Books

Improve Your Social Skills, Kindle Ebook, by Daniel Wendler (22 five start Amazon reviews and counting!).

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Aspergers Women and the Boy From Brazil?

Trust me, I’m going somewhere with this.

I grew up overseas, in Brazil, South America.  As a third culture kid, meaning I was both North American because of my parents, but Brazilian by birth, I never quite fit in either in the United States or in Brazil.

But when I get together with other missionary kids, and even people from other cultures here in the United States, I feel right at home.

In the same way, Aspergers women may never quite feel like they fit into society.  But, as Rudy Simone says in this interview, when they come together, they have found their home.

By the time you’re done listening to this interview, you’ll believe my premise:

Every Aspergian woman can improve the quality of her life by connecting with other Asperigan women, both on and offline.

Rudy Simone is a bestselling Aspergers woman author, advocate, entrepreneur, musician, actress, and much more.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

* How Rudy discovered she is Aspergian

* Some of the strengths of Aspergirls

* Hints for handling oneself on social media

* Advice for Aspergers women in relationships

* Advice for non Aspergers women married to Aspergers men

* Why Rudy founded the International Aspergirl Society

Links And Resources

International Aspergirl Society

Rudy Simone’s main website

Rudy Simone’s Books

Aspergirls: Empowering Females With Asperger Syndrome

22 Things A Woman Must Know: If She Loves A Man With Asperger Syndrome

22 Things A Woman With Asperger Syndrome Wants Her Partner To Know

Aspergers On The Job

Join the Conversation

What topics would you most like covered on the show? Who would you like me to interview? Share you answer in the comments below or Ask me a question via my Contact Page.

Also, please leave an honest review for The Thrive with Aspergers Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and I read each one of them.

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Do you know what Pokemon and famous people with Aspergers have in common?

I never thought I would learn so much about Pokémon as I have in the last few years.  Everyone’s talking to me about Pokémon Diamond, Pokémon Pearl, and now, Pokémon Go!

I conducted a search about famous people with Aspegers and autism and found a list at the website called Child Autism Parent Cafe.  Then I went to  Wikipedia and found a list of famous people on the autism spectrum.

There has been some backlash about talking about “famous” people on the autism spectrum.

But I believe we can draw inspiration and life lessons from these people.

Lets’ learn about what Pokémon has to do with famous people with Aspergers.  Satoshi Tajiri, the creator of Pokémon, is an individual with Aspergers!

Famous People With Aspergers:  Satoshi Tajiri

Satoshi was born in rural Japan.  Like other people on the autism spectrum, Satoshi had an early special interest.  He loved to collect bugs.  In fact, other kids started calling him “Dr. Bug.”  He expressed an interest in becoming an entomologist.

As rural Japan became urbanized, he desired to give other people the joy he experienced in catching and studying bugs.

This was, in part, his passion behind creating the Pokémon collection of characters.

School Years

As a teenager, Satoshi discovered the world of arcade games. He spent so much at the arcade, even cutting classes, that his parents thought of him as delinquent!

As a talented person on the autism spectrum, he developed a new special interest, and began to think about creating his own video games.

To his parents’ dismay, Tajiri almost failed high school. He often cut his high school classes because of his fascination with video games. His father tried to get him a job a local Toyota Electric Company, but Tajiri turned the job down. He managed to graduate by taking make up classes for his high school diploma. And he never did go to college.

Forging His Own Path

Tajiri chose the road less travelled when it came to school.

He enrolled at Toyko National College of Technology, where he studied electronics.

While there, he started a magazine about developments and trends in the gaming industry.

Another gaming enthusiast named Ken Sugimori joined the magazine as an illustrator. He actually drew many if not most of the original Pokémon characters.

Like many people on the autism spectrum, Tajiri had an eye for detail and a drive for perfection. He became interested in Nintendo and Game Boy when they first came out. He studied the programming language of Nintendo to better understand gaming systems.

It was Tajiri who conceptualized using link cables to connect hand-held Game Boy systems.  He wanted players to play together instead of against each other.

Tajiri has continued to follow his passion, designing new games and continuously improving his current games.