In this WiLD Conversation podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with coach and HR leader Sam Willing for an honest and courageous dialogue on what truly erodes trust in leadership: the inability to regulate ourselves in high-pressure moments.

Sam opens up about her own transformative journey through grief, healing, and nervous system work, and how it reshaped her understanding of emotional maturity in leadership. Together, they explore what Bowen Theory calls “self-differentiation”—the ability to remain emotionally steady while staying connected to others—and how it’s at the heart of trust, consistency, and psychological safety in organizations.

Through vivid examples, including “The Tale of Two CEOs,” Rob and Sam unpack why it’s not just about skills and culture-building strategies. If a leader lacks the capacity to self-regulate when it matters most, even the best intentions can fall flat. The conversation ends with a raw look at loneliness, imperfection, and identity in entrepreneurial leadership.

Leadership Takeaways:

🔗 Connect with Sam Willing:https://www.samwilling.com/

🔗 Learn more: https://www.wildleaders.org/

🔗 Download the report : https://info.wildleaders.org/state-of-trust-report-registration-0