See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/s4IDqWGlWBU

In this thought-provoking conversation, legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber joins Kelly and Jay to discuss his groundbreaking new book, The Fourth Mind. Whitley explores the anatomy, intelligence, and consciousness of the beings he refers to as "the Visitors"—entities many associate with the Greys. He shares profound insights into their nature, their relationship to time, and why their presence on Earth may be more intertwined with us than we realize.

This episode takes a deep dive into:

🔹 How our brains struggle to process encounters with the unknown

🔹 The concept of the "fourth mind" and why it's missing in us but not in them

🔹 The Visitors' relationship to time and their desperate need to reconnect with the present moment

🔹 The risks and rewards of telepathic contact with non-human intelligence

🔹 The role of experiencers in shaping our collective understanding of these phenomena

Whitley also opens up about his lifelong experiences, the mysterious nature of the Visitors, and the deeper implications of our interactions with them. Prepare for a conversation that will challenge your perceptions of reality.

Mentioned in This Episode

📖 The Fourth Mind by Whitley Strieber –https://a.co/d/3Tj8G2i

📚 Them by Whitley Strieber – https://a.co/d/gqYziUQ

🎥 Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – Watch at Cosmosis.Media

🎙️ Dreamland Podcast – Hosted by Whitley Strieber at UnknownCountry.com

💫 Stay Tuned for Part 2 Next Week!

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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:43 Introducing Whitley Strieber

06:16 Exploring the Fourth Mind Concept

09:57 The Visitors and Their Nature

14:34 Communion and Its Significance

19:57 Differences and Similarities with the Grays

28:01 The Role of the Visitors in Human History

33:07 Exploring Subjectivity and Objectivity in Phenomena

37:01 Meditation and Contact Work

38:44 The Nature of the Greys

40:28 Experiencing the Visitors

47:37 The Importance of Telepathy

01:00:16 The Urgency of the Fourth Mind

01:03:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/EStI_rnPDRU

In this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King welcome back experiencer Courtney Leffall, whose story was featured in Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality. Together, they explore the deeply personal and societal implications of anomalous experiences, the role of disclosure, and how we integrate these experiences into our lives. Courtney shares his thoughts on government transparency, the connection between UFOs and ancestral spirits, and the need for interdisciplinary collaboration in understanding these phenomena.

This episode of Cosmosis offers a deeply personal and intellectual dive into the experiencer phenomenon, government disclosure, and the spiritual implications of UFO contact. Courtney Leffall provides a unique and necessary perspective, bridging religious, cultural, and experiencer narratives to offer a more holistic view of what may be unfolding.

Listeners are left with a challenge: Can we break down our own biases and expand the conversation to include perspectives we may have previously dismissed?

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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Contact Us: [email protected]

Timestamps & Key Topics:

00:00:00 – Introduction: Future Human Hypothesis & Consciousness 00:01:12 – Welcome & Podcast Background
00:03:25 – Courtney’s UFO Encounter: Intelligent Control
00:05:37 – What Disclosure Means: Government Transparency & Secrecy 00:08:14 – Trust & Testimony: Do We Need Government Validation? 00:14:09 – High Strangeness: Beyond UFO Sightings
00:18:42 – Breaking Silos: Scientists, Experiencers & Philosophers 00:23:56 – Integrating Anomalous Experiences: Self-Acceptance 00:29:33 – UFOs & The Dead: Ancestral Spirits & Contact
00:38:21 – CE5 & Summoning: The Risks of Contact
00:45:45 – Are UFOs Demonic? Faith & The Phenomenon
00:51:18 – Race, Culture & The UFO Community
00:58:06 – Inclusivity: Expanding the Conversation
01:08:44 – What the Phenomenon Tells Us About Humanity
01:11:29 – Final Thoughts & Call to Action

In the first episode of Cosmosis, we’re bringing you one of the most compelling experiencer stories we’ve ever encountered. Courtney Leffall had never told his story publicly before it appeared in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, and once you hear it, you’ll understand why. His experiences don’t fit neatly into any single category—crossing the boundaries between psi phenomena, precognition, UFO encounters, messages from dead ancestors, and even the eerie mystery of cattle mutilations.

There’s a hidden thread connecting these phenomena—one that the mainstream conversation about UFOs often ignores. Courtney’s story is a rare and striking example of how deep that thread runs and how impossible it is to untangle. His experiences force us to confront an unsettling question: What if the reality we think we know is just the smallest fraction of what actually exists?

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
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Contact Us:
[email protected]




 

All good things must come to an end. And this podcast, and the international community that has sprung up around it, has been a very good thing. It’s been one of the best things in my life. Which is why it’s hard to actually say the words that this episode will be the last episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole. 

But before you panic—this isn’t the end. It’s just the beginning.

Tune in to find out about the future of the podcast, and to say good-bye to The UFO Rabbit Hole.

See Karl Nell's Sol Talk

Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality

The docuseries that I've spent the last year working on, Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, drops today. It would mean the world to me if you would check it out. It's currently available in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, and Australia. We're working on more international options, but it's an expensive and complicated process, so thank you for your patience and understanding as we work through that. 

Watch Cosmosis on Apple TV

Watch Cosmosis on Amazon Prime

Watch Cosmosis on YouTube

In the long-awaited part two of the Through the Looking Glass series, host Kelly Chase is back to tell the bizarre story of the events following her anomalous experience from part one, and how a string of unlikely events brought her to the story of an experiencer with strange psi abilities named Tom Matte. Tom developed what he describes as an interactive holographic overlay on his reality which he calls Upsight in the aftermath of dramatic mental breakdown. More than a decade later, he is still seeking answers about Upsight which he says allows him to access non-local information in fascinating ways and even communicate with NHIs. 

After a string of unbelievable synchronicities, Kelly found that her story had become inextricably tied to Tom’s, leading her on a journey of inquiry about the nature of anomalous experiences, mental illness, addiction, and more. In this episode she dives deep into this strange tale and the insights and revelations that it spurred. 

*****************************

Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality Drops on Apple TV on December 30, 2024.
Watch the Cosmosis Trailer

*****************************

The Institute of Noetic Sciences
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Follow Tom Matte
Jesus Goes To Hollywood: A Memoir of Madness
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Mentioned in this Episode
Olof Rockner
Illustrations of Upsight by Olof Rockner

• Jaws Poster
• Greys Remote Viewing a Town
• Other Example
• Other Example
• Other Example
• Other Example
• Other Example

Tom’s Paper About Dark Matter & Dark Energy

Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis

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Hey everyone! I just wanted to drop this quick bonus episode to let you guys know about another really exciting UFO docuseries coming out this Sunday, October 27th on MGM+ called Beyond: UFOs and the Unknown. This series from JJ Abrams’ production company Bad Robot features Whitley Strieber, Jeff Kripal, Garry Nolan, Leslie Kean, Chris Mellon, Jay Christopher King, Tim Gallaudet, Mitch Horowitz, and many more. And hey, guess what? I’m in it, too. It looks like it’s shaping up to be a fantastic show, and it is an absolute honor to be involved in this project next to so many people that I admire. 

In this episode, I sat down with Co-Executive Producer, Kevin Lincoln to hear more about the show and about the process that he and his team went through to bring this to life. I’ve been very impressed with Kevin and his team and how far they were willing to go to chase this story down all the strange rabbit holes that you find on this path. Kevin is a very intelligent and extremely well-read guy, and this was a fun conversation that made me even more excited to watch the show. 
 

—Kelly

 

In this episode of the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast, host Kelly Chase returns from a hiatus with a brand new conversation with James Madden. The episode explores themes of psychoanalysis, epistemic vulnerability, and the psychological motivations behind belief systems in ufology. Together, Kelly and Jim ponder the deeper implications of mind control, trauma, and the symbolic nature of our cultural fascination with UFOs, aiming to navigate the complex landscape of human inquiry and understanding.

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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Welcome Back to the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast

01:02 Upcoming Documentary and Personal Transformation

02:27 A New Direction for the Podcast

02:44 Conversation with Dr. James Madden

04:35 Dr. Madden's Recent Work and Psychoanalysis

06:36 Freudian Insights and Human Motivation

10:37 Epistemic Vulnerability and Belief Systems

15:07 Challenges in Ufology and Disclosure

22:20 Language, Belief, and Mind Control

25:41 Reflecting on Personal Beliefs

26:26 Freud's Death Drive and Trauma Reenactment

29:52 The Addictive Nature of Unfulfilled Promises

31:08 Comparing Ufology to Sports Fandom

33:18 Personal Struggles and Finding Meaning in Danger

35:21 Cultural and Political Outrage Cycles

40:28 Symbolism in Dreams and Collective Psyche

44:29 The Unending Human Project and Self-Destruction

46:29 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude

In this episode, you’re going to hear from Peter Levenda who spoke at the Inquire into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conference in April of 2023. Although this talk is from a little over a year ago, I think you’ll find that it feels especially timely given everything that’s been going on in the news. It’s also well-timed with the upcoming release of the third book and final book in the Gods, Man, and War series that he authored with Tom DeLonge. War will be out in September, and I know many of us in the community, myself included, are eagerly awaiting its arrival.

If you aren’t familiar with Peter Levenda, he is an author and researcher who has written several phenomenal books on occult history. While most of his books aren’t directly about the UFO phenomenon, they are invaluable resources for people who want to understand the full context of the hidden histories in which the phenomenon is inextricably enmeshed. In particular, I recommend Unholy Alliance: A History of Nazi Involvement in the Occult and the Sinister Forces trilogy. 

Also this week, James Iandoli (who co-hosted the event you’ll be hearing from today) just released a really fantastic interview with Peter Levenda on his Engaging the Phenomenon podcast. If you’d like to hear more from Peter, I’ll have that episode linked up in the episode description so you can go check it out. Make sure to subscribe to James’s podcast while you’re there, if you haven’t already. It’s one of my all-time faves.

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EPISODE BRIEF

Watch Peter Levenda on Engaging The Phenomenon

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The podcast is still on hiatus as I work with the Ontocalypse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries, The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality. But while I’m away, I’ve teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conferences.

In this talk, we hear from Joshua Cutchin. Josh is a researcher and author of several books including Thieves in the Night: A Brief History of Supernatural Child Abductions and Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal. In the traditions of great works like Jacques Vallée’s Passport to Magonia, Cutchin’s work explores the profound connections between folklore and myths from around the world and modern reports of contact with UFOs and non-human intelligences. And in this talk from the December 2023 conference, he dives into the themes that emerge in accounts of all of these phenomena that indicate that they all are deeply tied to the mysteries of death, the soul, and what lies beyond the veil. 

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This episode is brought to you by The Experiencer Group. 

The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who’ve had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.


—————————————

EPISODE BRIEF

BECOME A PATRON
Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.

Memberships start at just $5/month.

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Get a SIGNED COPY
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