Welcome back to What Came After. You’re about to hear the second part of my interview with Dr. Devin Naar, a professor of Sephardic Studies in Seattle.

When Devin and I first spoke a few months ago, we were trying to understand how to approach a set of topics about which we think and feel very differently. At one point, he asked me, “Where are you holding with the g-word?”—a question that, for most Jews since October 7th, needs no explanation.

For many Jews, the accusation of genocide against Israel is deeply offensive, even outlandish--  and profoundly antisemitic. For others, the idea of genocide in Gaza aligns with long-held critiques of Israel. And there are still other Jews who have identified—or still identify—as Zionists, for whom contemplating the possibility of a genocide has created real anguish and disorientation.

In this episode, Devin uses the g-word. I want to say explicitly that I do not agree with Devin's framing. But, as Dein and I discuss in this episode, I do believe very strongly in letting people speak for themselves. And I also see the critical importance of engaging honestly with Jews who see things differently, perhaps especially when the disagreements are substantive and painful.

Recently, when I told Devin that I had introduced him in the previous episode as a non-Zionist, he challenged that label. “Who said I was a non-Zionist?” he said. “I’m a Jew. A Sephardic Jew, full stop.”

Welcome back to this difficult conversation. No matter what you think of what Devin shares here, let's all hope for continued dialogue across our many Jewish communities—a future in which everyone gets to speak for themselves. 

Credits:

Host and Creator: Manya Marcus

Managing Producer: Eli Akselrod

Editor and Producer: Ben Wallick

Editor 2: Eli Akselrod

Logo Design: Samuel Vilemar

Outro Music: “A Modern Man" - Guy Mendilow Ensemble

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