The Upstream Leader Podcast

John Taylor never planned to work in public accounting. On Episode 120 of The Upstream Leader, he tells Jeremy how he spent years as a German professor, stumbled into the world of entrepreneurship through a student competition trip to Germany, ran the entrepreneurship center at Drury University, and then spent nearly a decade as COO of Askinosie Chocolate, a craft chocolate company founded by a former criminal defense attorney. What connects each move isn't a master plan, but a habit of noticing gaps, staying curious, and being willing to look a little foolish in the short term for the sake of learning something real. Now a Consulting Specialist at Elliott, Robinson & Co., John brings that accumulated outside perspective to accounting clients who are doing their best with imperfect systems. His conversation with Jeremy Clopton makes a quiet but pointed case that the profession needs exactly that kind of person.

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As firms head into retreat and strategic planning season, Jeremy Clopton makes the case on Episode 119 of The Upstream Leader that most of the big questions on the agenda, like AI adoption, M&A, talent strategy, client focus, are being asked in the wrong order. Before any of those can be answered well, there's a more fundamental question that needs to sit at the center of the room: "Who do we want to become?" It might sound simple, but Jeremy goes deep on why identity is the lens through which every other decision has to be filtered. When firms skip it, not by choosing to ignore it, but by drifting into an answer through inaction, apathy becomes the order of the day. And the exact same logic applies at the individual level too, for leaders who don't run a firm but are still navigating what kind of leader, colleague, or person they want to be.

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Something is quietly undermining the progress accounting firms are making, and it starts at the top. In this solo Episode 118 of The Upstream Leader, Jeremy Clopton makes a direct case that today's leaders have largely handed off the work of developing the next generation to HR departments, training programs, and outside coaches, while telling themselves they're simply too busy to lead development themselves. That abdication is the single biggest barrier to sustainable firm growth. Plus, the fix isn't complicated: identify your successor, put people in uncomfortable situations with your support behind them, and simply make the time. Jeremy also pushes back on the "sink-or-swim" mentality that shaped many current leaders, distinguishing it from the kind of intentional challenge that actually builds real leadership capacity. There are obviously lots of ways to tackle this problem, but the real ask is simpler than any framework: Just go invest in someone.

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Inheriting something that works is its own kind of pressure, and Jeremy Clopton gets into that tension directly on Episode 117 of The Upstream Leader. The discomfort of looking at programs, cultures, and ways of doing things built by people you respect, recognizing they need to evolve—these are all real challenges facing leaders. Drawing on his experience succeeding Upstream Academy's founder, Jeremy makes the case that building on a legacy isn't a betrayal of it, it's actually the most faithful thing a leader can do. The principles don't change, but what does is the responsibility. Jeremy's timely reminder is important for anyone who has stepped into a leadership role, felt the weight of what came before them, and wondered just how hard they're allowed to push on it.

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Jody Grunden's path through accounting was anything but orderly: fired from public accounting, bored in industry after automating much of his own work away, then pushed into building something the profession barely had language for. On Episode 116 of The Upstream Leader, he traces how cash pressure, curiosity, and a willingness to keep making mistakes led to subscription billing, weekly client payments, remote teams, and a virtual CFO model long before any of that felt normal. Jeremy moves the discussion from the mechanics of pricing and niche focus to the harder reality of change inside traditional firms, where resistance rarely comes from clients and often comes from the stories leaders tell themselves. What emerges is a grounded look at progress in accounting less about grand vision than about testing ideas, surviving the awkward years, and proving that a different way can work.

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Every year, accounting firm leaders emerge from tax season telling themselves there's not enough time left to make meaningful changes, and every year, that story holds. Jeremy Clopton and producer Justin Grant push back on the premise itself on Episode 115 of The Upstream Leader. If April 30th is effectively the end of your performance year, then May 1st isn't a third of the way through the calendar, it's day one of something new. The conversation works through what that reframe actually demands: not just a shift in scheduling, but a willingness to do the hard work of change precisely when comfort and success make it easiest to postpone. The firms that get this right, Jeremy argues, aren't the ones with better plans. They're the ones that have stopped waiting for the right moment and built the habit of never needing to.

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Matt Granados, CEO of Life Pulse and author of Motivate the Unmotivated, joins Jeremy Clopton on Episode 114 of The Upstream Leader to make his case that most leaders can't motivate their teams for a simple reason: they don't know themselves well enough to know anyone else. His framework centers on identity, specifically the damage done when people tie who they are to what they do, and builds outward from there into a practical system for understanding what actually drives the individuals around you. It's less about management technique and more about honest self-examination as a prerequisite for leading others. Matt covers enough ground to make you feel like the gap between fear-based and love-based motivation is less a philosophical distinction and more, a practical one.

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Most accounting firms claim to put people first, but Shish Cherian knows the difference between a hashtag and actual commitment. Shish talks to Jeremy Clopton on Episode 113 of The Upstream Leader about how as head of people operations at Donovan CPAs, one of the profession's standout firms, he's broken down what separates genuine "people first" culture from marketing speak. The distinction starts with alignment versus agreement—partners must be willing to sacrifice, not just nod along—and from there, it's about challenging directly while caring personally. Cutting through the "we're a family" platitudes plaguing the profession, Shish tackles the hard truths: HR can't manufacture generosity, servant leadership matters more than small talk, and your client base can either support, or undermine, everything you're trying to build. Remote work, clear systems, and clients who respect boundaries aren't perks, they're infrastructure, and this conversation reveals what actually makes people want to build careers at a firm.

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Alexia Pappas moved to Tampa with no job lined up, interviewed at ten firms, and nearly took a waitressing gig before finding the right fit. On Episode 112 of The Upstream Leader, she also tells Jeremy Clopton that she accepted a position in a department she had zero experience and no real interest in because the people felt right. That decision launched a decade-long career at the same firm. Alexia's path wasn't linear, starting in CAS despite wanting tax, discovering she knew "absolutely nothing" about foundational accounting, and spending years proving herself before making the switch. But that detour became her advantage, giving her a particularly deep understanding of her clients' operations. Now, as she eyes partnership, Alexia's focus has shifted from climbing to lifting. She talks about succession planning not as a threat but as freedom, about measuring success by fulfillment rather than just income, and about building a career where showing up excited matters as much as the work itself. Ten years in, she's still at the same firm, and for her, that's exactly the point.

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When Jeremy Jones stepped into the CEO role at Frazier & Deeter, he inherited not just a legacy, but a crossroads. The firm, steeped in tradition and guided by the founders' ongoing presence, faced a pivotal decision: pursue private equity investment or maintain the status quo. He joins Jeremy Clopton on Episode 111 of The Upstream Leader and explains how, alongside his leadership team, he navigated a landscape transformed by industry peers embracing new models. Their journey was marked by candid conversations, cultural soul-searching, and a deliberate shift in governance and compensation in order to prepare the firm for change before committing to it. Ultimately, a partnership emerged not from financial calculus, but from a shared vision for people-first growth. Whether or not your firm is currently or will ever consider going the private equity route, this is information you want to understand as the accounting profession continues into the era of its latest "next big thing."

Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com