The Usual Place

It’s been about 10 days of excitement at the SEA Games, and Team Singapore has been going all out to make their mark.

Hurdler Kerstin Ong and swimmer Amanda Lim have returned home after their events and will join The Usual Place podcast to talk about their experiences in Thailand.

One is just getting started, and the other has bid farewell to the SEA Games stage.

Kerstin, 28, finally made her debut at the regional meet after a decade of trying to qualify.

But the race came with its own hurdle. The national records that she and fellow hurdler Ang Chen Xiang set in their respective events on Dec 12 were considered invalid due to timing system issues.

Meanwhile, Amanda won gold in the women’s 50m freestyle event.

Post-race, the 32-year-old announced that this would be her last SEA Games. It was her 10th outing at the regional meet, where she has won 21 golds, five silvers and two bronzes.

In this episode, I chat with Kerstin and Amanda about what went down during their events, what’s next for them, and the challenges of juggling training with work.

Highlights (click/tap above):

1:51 Kerstin's pov on the technical issues that affected her race timings

9:46 Amanda was gunning for gold at her last SEA Games

15:26 Amanda remembers her late father's impact on her swim career 

26:46 How these athletes juggle work, training and even nosebleeds 

36:40 We basically trying to survive: Kerstin and Amanda on funding most of their training

40:42 Why is it difficult for athletes to get funding?

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai, Eden Soh and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong & Elizabeth Khor

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Frequent police advisories, daily news stories, a repeated “Add, Check, Tell” mantra – Singaporeans should be better at recognising scams by now.

Yet many continue to fall prey to scammers who keep adapting and refining their approach.

So far in 2025, more than 31,200 cases of scams have been reported, with victims losing over $750.3 million. Last year, the amount lost to scams crossed the $1 billion mark.

In this episode of The Usual Place podcast, I speak with Mr Jeffery Chin, deputy director of the Singapore Police Force’s Scam Public Education Office.

Set up in 2023, the office is staffed by police officers, civilian officers and psychologists who work closely together to drive anti-scam public education efforts.

We’ll discuss how scams have evolved over the years, what makes a person an “ideal” scam victim, and why people end up becoming money mules.

Highlights (click/tap above):

1:47Jeffrey’s personal brushes with scams and having nearly lost £500

9:59 Why young people fall for job scams

21:22 How Jeffrey exposed a love scam in seconds using a simple trick in reverse image search

24:05 When victims get their self-image threatened

28:59 Is there anti-scam fatigue?

32:56 Why sharing information about scams is a form of community service

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai, Eden Soh and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong & Elizabeth Khor

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How far would you go to get your child enrolled at a primary school of your choice?

One woman repeatedly lied about her home address to get her daughter a spot at the primary school the mother wanted in 2023.

But the school discovered the truth, and she was handed a one-week jail sentence in November for subverting the admissions process.

While her sentence has raised eyebrows, she’s not the only one to have attempted this, with other parents over the years having been fined between $4,000 and $5,000 over similar attempts.

In a 2007 case, a parent was jailed after lying about his residential address in order to get his daughter into a certain school in Bukit Timah.

Data from the Ministry of Education showed that between 2020 and 2024, there were about nine such cases each year.

In this episode of The Usual Place, I speak with three guests about why some parents think they need to game the system to get their child a good education.

They are:

• Pooja Bhandari, founder of non-profit EveryChild.SG, which looks to raise awareness about the need for education reforms and the well-being of children in Singapore,

• Esther Foong-Tan, a family life education specialist, who helps families work on their interpersonal relationships by equipping parents with up-to-date resources and training, and

• Assistant Professor of Sociology Jacqueline Ho, who teaches at Singapore Management University. Her research is focused primarily on the Singaporean education system.

In this pre-recorded episode, we discuss: Is this just ‘kiasu’ culture taken to extremes? And what’s driving parents to go to such lengths for a place at a “good” primary school?

Highlights (click/tap above):

3:16 Emotional impact on the child whose parent was jailed for lying about their address

4:54 Unfairness in the P1 registration system 

11:26 How inequality in society builds anxiety in parents

23:32 Bullying in an elite school 

35:54 How the lack of information about school culture has spurred anxiety among parents 

38:20 Could an automatic allocation to primary schools create a fairer admission system? 

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai, Eden Soh and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It has been about six months since Jasmin Lau and Goh Hanyan stepped into politics after careers in the civil and public service.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

Now they are both political office holders across several ministries, taking on new responsibilities and getting used to being in the public eye.

They are also the co-chairs of the Committee on Technology and Innovation – one of five committees that are part of the Economic Strategy Review.

In a nutshell, the review looks at how Singapore can stay economically relevant and competitive amid geopolitical tensions and tech disruptions.

They will be dropping by The Usual Place podcast to chat about what the past couple of months have been like and the biggest adjustments they have had to make.

We’ll also discuss the committee’s plans on how to accelerate artificial intelligence transformation across the economy and encourage enterprises to adopt AI, as well as feedback they have garnered from speaking with business owners.

Highlights (click/tap above):

1:43 Reallocating time spent after landing political office positions 

4:29 The most challenging portfolio 

6:48 Switching between national and municipal issues 

12:09 “Never a dull day, even for the family” - how their children are adjusting 

20:58 Last-mover advantage in adapting AI - feedback from CEO closed door session 

26:36 Don’t panic, the AI wave is not coming tomorrow for your jobs: Jasmin 

35:29 How AI cannot replace the human touch 

38:11 AI companions are scary

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai, Eden Soh and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dig deeper into why Singapore's food sustainability targets have changed.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

The original goal was for farms here to produce 30 per cent of the country’s nutritional needs, which include fish, eggs and vegetables. Now it's 20 per cent of Singapore's fibre and 30 per cent of protein needs by 2035.

Natasha speaks with Ken Cheong, chief executive of the Singapore Agro-Food Enterprises Federation and Ray Poh, founder of Artisan Green, an indoor farm that grows pesticide-free crops – about what measures are needed to help local farms grow and why egg farmers are doing well.

What will help every farm become a "good farm" and should we have CDC-type vouchers to get consumers to buy local produce?

Highlights (click/tap above):

1:31 Why was the  initial goal so difficult to achieve?

4:37 Economies of scale lowers operational costs

7:55 Why transport is the biggest bugbear for local produce

21:56 Why local eggs are safe to be eaten half-boiled

28:52 Will CDC vouchers push more to buy local produce?

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This follows a debate over a school's alumni reaction to an ST report on a major scam operation.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

It was a crime report meant to highlight the suspects behind a major scam operation, but a nugget of information sparked an uproar over a school’s image.

Last week, The Straits Times reported that two brothers and their cousin were the alleged masterminds running the operation from Phnom Penh.

The group ran a government official impersonation scam that was allegedly responsible for 438 scam cases involving losses of at least $41 million.

The 27 Singaporeans suspected of being members of the organised criminal group are now wanted by the Singapore police.

But that was not what readers were talking about online.

What drew attention was a detail in the Oct 30 report that one of the wanted men, Finan Siow, was said to be a former Anglo-Chinese School (Independent) student who once played for the school’s rugby team.

That information – featured in both the article and an infographic – didn’t sit well with the Anglo-Chinese School Old Boys’ Association, which said the school had been singled out.

ST explained its editorial decision.

But the furore around that piece of information, especially from the school’s alumni on social media platforms, was curious.

In this episode of The Usual Place, I speak to two well-known social commentators – comedian Rishi Budhrani, and comedy writer and communication strategist Benjamin “Mr Miyagi” Lee – to find out why we are so fixated on brand-name schools?

Highlights (click/tap above):

2:01 Mr Miyagi and Rishi disclose which school they used to attend

3:39 On the ACS Old Boys’ Association’s forum letter

6:56 Rishi and Benjamin on their own reaction to the ST report

8:34 Brand name schools: Baggage and expectations

13:50 Mr Miyagi on his son’s choice of schools

11:49 Judge on merits and achievements, not school links

16:29 School alumni networks have worth too

22:58 Different experiences of school life

30:14 Education is so valued in Singapore, hence such debates

30:48 Old boys: Making the news for wrong reasons

Read more: ACS Old Boys’ Association’s forum letter and response from ST: https://str.sg/pG4E

Read Natasha Ann Zachariah’s articles: https://str.sg/iSXm

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Megan Khung would have turned 10 a few weeks ago, if she were still alive today.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

Instead, five years after her death, the findings by a review panel detailed how, within a year, there were several lapses at various agencies that could have helped her.

The panel’s report came after the Ministry of Social and Family Development (MSF) said in April it would conduct a review of Megan’s case.

The girl died in 2020 after suffering physical and emotional abuse by her mother Foo Li Ping and her mother’s then-boyfriend Wong Shi Xiang.

The report’s timeline detailed what happened from the time staff members at Megan’s pre-school found bruises on her body to when the couple were arrested for murder, highlighting gaps in communication among agencies, lags in escalating the matter and a lack of follow-ups.

These agencies include Child Protective Service and the police.

In this episode of The Usual Place, I will discuss what the panel’s findings and recommendations tell us about accountability in the system, the complexities of navigating child abuse cases, and how we can do better to protect the most vulnerable among us.

I speak with ST’s senior social affairs correspondent Theresa Tan and director of clinical services at social service agency Pave Integrated Services Soh Siew Fong.

Highlights (click/tap above):

4:26 When abuse is dealing with life and death

8:12 Did the many helping hands framework fail?

10:00 When child protection is more than just hiring social workers

10:47 Supervising case workers

17:40 Why do social workers hesitate to make police reports?

30:06 How to attract new case workers

33:42 When physical punishment becomes abuse

41:35 Keeping children safe goes beyond case work

Read Natasha Ann Zachariah’s articles: https://str.sg/iSXm

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Pave Integrated Services: https://str.sg/fgUd

National Anti-Violence and Sexual Harassment Helpline (NAVH): https://str.sg/JPwNL

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Many people switch from smoking to vaping for different reasons.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

For Mr Muhammad Dandiar Rosli, he saw vaping as a cheaper alternative to smoking, so he decided to give it a try.

But it nearly cost him his life. Just a month after he started vaping in 2020, he ended up in hospital after feeling breathless and coughing up thick, yellow phlegm.

He thought he had contracted Covid-19, but a bronchoscopy revealed that he had pulmonary alveolar proteinosis – a rare lung disease where the air sacs are clogged with protein and fatty material, making breathing difficult.

That marked the start of a long recovery that included two hospital stays and four procedures to “wash out” his lungs. What he underwent is called a lung lavage, where sterile saline is used to wash away the abnormal build-up of protein from the lungs. 

Five years on, the memory of the treatment – and the hefty medical bill – still affects him today. Mr Dandiar, a private-hire driver, drops by The Usual Place podcast to talk about undergoing the lung lavage procedures and the difficulty of quitting vaping.

Highlights (click/tap above):

2:08 The failed attempt to save money by vaping 

9:08 “It was too painful, I had to shutdown,” Dandiar on being hospitalised with pulmonary alveolar proteinosis. 

10:29 The process of lung washing

16:07 Restarting to vape after his first hospitalisation

25:54 Why quitting is so difficult

Read Natasha Ann Zachariah’s articles: https://str.sg/iSXm

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Parliament convened in September, but a familiar face from the previous term wasn’t there.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

Progress Singapore Party’s secretary-general Leong Mun Wai was a notable presence as a Non-Constituency MP during the 14th term of Parliament, sometimes having heated exchanges with ministers and PAP MPs.

But he and fellow party member Hazel Poa did not retain their NCMP spots following the General Election in May.

Their PSP team for West Coast-Jurong West GRC lost to the PAP slate, which won the five-man GRC with 59.99 per cent of the vote to PSP’s 40.01 per cent.

In this episode of The Usual Place, I speak with Mr Leong about steering the party in its next phase post-GE2025 and the challenges of not being in Parliament.

How will PSP evolve its practices and policy communications without a Parliamentary presence, and remain relevant?

Highlights (click/tap above):

4:06 Increasing online presence to explain party positions

6:05 Mr Leong on heated exchanges as NCMP

10:45 How PSP will explain its policy ideas to the public post-GE2025 

19:19 What will PSP really stand for "after Dr Tan Cheng Bock"?

20:20 Wanting to lead national conversation on economy

22:55 How does PSP stand out differently from other parties?

25:00 Will PSP move beyond the electro west?

28:00 "I learnt a very hard lesson about the powerful PAP machinery": Mr Leong

Read Natasha Ann Zachariah’s articles: https://str.sg/iSXm

Follow The Usual Place podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Teo Tong Kai and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hybrid work arrangements were once widely seen as the future of work, especially after the Covid-19 pandemic upended the daily grind we were used to.

Synopsis: Join Natasha Ann Zachariah at The Usual Place every Thursday as she unpacks the latest current affairs with guests.

Now, some businesses and employers appear to be changing course.

Last week, the National University of Singapore raised eyebrows when it was reported that all full-time staff were required to work from the office five days a week, starting Oct 1.

The move follows similar return-to-office mandates by big companies, both in Singapore and abroad, including Grab and Amazon.

The discussion over where work should happen has been going on since the pandemic.

However, if staff are pushing back on a full return, why do some employers still insist on moving ahead with these mandates? If returning to the office becomes a requirement, how should the workplace accommodate different work styles?

In this episode of The Usual Place, I spoke with:

• Ives Tay, a learning and development consultant who has experience with adult education, training quality assurance and workforce development, and
• Nicole Chua, director in workplace consulting and People Strategy Lead in Asia-Pacific for global real estate services company JLL

Highlights (click/tap above):

6:57 We can be productive in the office - and at home

9:12 WFH allows workers to break their day into focused blocks

13:52 Have the courage to speak with managers about policies

18:07 Are some ruining WFH for the rest?

19:45 Employees should be transparent about their movements

22:57 Government should address tensions over flexible work arrangements

29:31 Ensuring the WFH benefits remain

31:53 Is WFH short-changing fresh graduates?

35:27 Consequences for employers enforcing RTO measures

Host: Natasha Ann Zachariah ([email protected])

Read Natasha’s articles: https://str.sg/iSXm

Follow Natasha on her IG account and DM her your thoughts on this topic: https://www.instagram.com/theusualplacepodcast

Follow Natasha on LinkedIn: https://str.sg/v6DN

Filmed by: Studio+65

Edited by: Eden Soh, Teo Tong Kai and Chen Junyi

Executive producers: Danson Cheong, Elizabeth Khor & Ernest Luis

Editorial producer: Lynda Hong

Follow The Usual Place Podcast and get notified for new episode drops every Thursday:

Channel: https://str.sg/5nfm

Apple Podcasts: https://str.sg/9ijX

Spotify: https://str.sg/cd2P

YouTube: https://str.sg/theusualplacepodcast

Feedback to: [email protected]

SPH Awedio app: https://www.awedio.sg

---

Follow more ST podcast channels:

All-in-one ST Podcasts channel: https://str.sg/wvz7

Get more updates: http://str.sg/stpodcasts

---

Get The Straits Times app, which has a dedicated podcast player section:

The App Store: https://str.sg/icyB

Google Play: https://str.sg/icyX

--

#tup #tuptr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.