In this episode of the Vernon Richard show, the hosts discuss their experiences with AI tools and agents, focusing on the challenges and lessons learned from using these technologies in coding and software engineering. They explore best practices for utilizing AI effectively, the importance of context in interactions with AI, and the future of AI agents in the workplace. The conversation highlights the balance between leveraging AI for efficiency while maintaining control and understanding of the underlying processes.

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 09:16 - The LinkedIn post talking about Replit messing with someone's production code 😳
  • And the link to the thread of person who went through it
  • The tool in question, Replit
• 13:01 - Rich's LinkedIn post with his tips
• 14:21 - GitHub Copilot
• 18:09 - VS Code
• 29:01 - Folks at different ends of the "AI Enthusiasm Spectrum"
  • On the enthusiastic end
    • Jason Arbon is on the positive side and is always creating something interesting like...
      • testers.ai
  • On the unenthusiastic end
    • Keith Klain has created a reading list to help get us up to speed...
      • Keith's reading AI reading list
      • You can see his full resources list here
    • Maaike Brinkhof has a bunch of thought-provoking posts on the topic...
      • ...like this one
      • and this one
• 34:44 - Want to know what "conflabulation" means? Listen to Martin explain it on the Ghost in th code podcast (that's not a typo!)
• 37:24 - What is Context Engineering? Perplexity has answers!
• 46:38 - The legendary Lt. Geordi La Forge from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
• 51:48 - After recording, the very cool Paul Coles published his article The Subtle Art of Herding Cats: Why AI Agents Ignore Your Rules (Part 1 of 4, explaining the topic of Context Engineering. It’s brilliant!
• 59:04 - The promises of technology over the years...
• 60:50 - The always insightful Meredith Whittaker of Signal fame, where is the president and services on its board of directors, explains the privacy and security concerns with agentic technology.
  • 
    Watch the clip, then go back and watch the whole thing!

00:00 - Intro
01:17 - Welcome
01:30 - TANGENT BEGINS... All kinds of egregious waffling follows. Skip to the actual content at 08:34
01:31 - Rich VS Tree Stump
01:57 - What on earth did Rich need the pulley for?
02:26 - Vern's nerdy confession and pulley confusion
02:52 - Does Rich live next door to Tony Stark?!
03:22 - What to do when you need a steel RSJ
03:35 - We admit defeat. 03:36 - Welcome to Rich's Garden Adventures Podcast!
07:25 - What has Vern been up to?
08:34 - We attempt to segue into the episode at last!
08:35 - TANGENT ENDS...
08:51 - Rich’s POC: using agents to help build AI tools
09:45 - The Replit disaster: vibe coding meets deleted production data 11:12 - Sociopathic assistants and the case for AI gaslighting 11:55 - Vernon wants his team experimenting with AI tools
12:50 - Rich explains the context for his latest AI adventures
13:18 - Rich’s bench project and “putting the engineering hat on” 
15:22 - Setting up the stack and staying in control 
16:53 - A familiar story: things were going fine until they weren’t 
17:00 - Ask vs Edit vs Agent mode in Copilot explained 
19:06 - The innocent linting error that spiralled out of control 
21:16 - Stuck in a loop: “I didn’t know what it was doing, but I let it keep going” 
22:11 - The fateful click: “I’m going to reset the DB” 
23:10 - The aftermath: no data, no damage… but very nearly 
23:33 - Security wake-up call: agents are acting as you 
24:39 - You can’t fix what you don’t know it broke 
25:52 - Can you interrupt an agent mid-task? 
27:14 - When agents get “are you sure?” moments 
28:15 - Tea breaks as a dev strategy: outsourcing work to agents 
29:24 - Jason Aborn vs Keith & Maaike: where Rich sits on the AI enthusiasm spectrum 
30:41 - Tip1. The first of Rich’s 6 agent tips: commit after every interaction
32:12 - Why trusting the “keep all” button is risky 
34:01 - Writing your own commits vs letting the agent do it 
35:26 - When agents lose the plot: reset instead of fixing 
36:55 - “You’re insane now, GPT. I’m giving you a break.” 
37:54 - Tip 2: Make the task as small as possible 
39:59 - The middle ground between 'ask' and full agent delegation 
41:12 - Tip 3: Ask the agent to break the task down for you 
43:36 - The order matters: why you shouldn’t start with the form UI 
44:33 - Vernon compares it to shell command pipelines 
45:09 - It can now open browsers and run Playwright tests (!) 
46:23 - Star Trek and the rise of the engineer-agent hybrid 
47:57 - Tips 4–6: Test often, review the code, use other models 
49:39 - Pattern drift and the importance of prompt templates 
50:51 - Vernon’s nemesis: m dashes, emojis, and being ignored by GPT 
51:48 - Context engineering vs prompt engineering 
52:43 - When codebases get too big for agents to cope 
53:40 - Why agents sometimes act dumber than your IDE 
54:32 - The danger of outsourcing good practices to AI 
54:48 - Spoilers: Rich’s upcoming keynote at TestIt 
55:01 - Agents don’t ask why — they just keep going 
56:42 - Goals vs loops: when failure isn’t part of the plan 
58:32 - The question of efficiency: is training agents worth it? 
59:47 - Rich’s take: we’ll buy agents like we buy SaaS 
61:08...

In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Richard and Vernon discuss the challenges and opportunities in coaching software engineers on quality engineering. They explore personal updates, family dynamics, and the importance of perspective in quality and risk management. The conversation delves into the significance of code quality, effective communication, and the role of engineers in ensuring quality. They also touch on the need for hands-on learning and practical application in quality engineering training, concluding with a call to action for listeners to share their experiences and insights.

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 01:16 - Llandegfan Exploratory Workshop in Testing aka LLEWT
  • You can read about the latest edition from James (I haven’t written anything up yet - VR)
• 19:57 - The “I just want to write code” LinkedIn post
  • FAILURE! I couldn’t find the LinkedIn post I was referring to 😭
• 22:29 - Linda Van De Vooren (massive brain freeze - I couldn't remember Linda's last name properly! Sorry Linda 🤦🏾‍♂️)
• 25:04 - Cul-de-sac
  • This is a French term (that means "bottom of the bag") that we use in English to describe a dead-end street, i.e. a street that only has one entry/exit point.
  • We also use it in the context Vernon just did, to indicate a situation where we have no options.
• 31:45 - The Deep Dive tracks at Agile Testing Days look incredible! Get your tickets ASAP folks!
  • They also have an Online Pass available if you're unable to visit Berlin (although if you can, we recommend visiting in person!)
• 34:20 - Rich's Qt testing articles
  • Where Does AI Fit in the Future of Software Testing?
  • Applying the SACRED Model to Build Reliable Automated Tests
  • The Importance of Technical System Knowledge
  • 4 Essential Types of Automated API Testing
  • Exploring the Different Types of Automated UI Testing
  • The Manual Testing and Automated Testing Paradox
• 42:11 - PeersCon tickets are available now. If you're in the UK and can easily get to Nottingham, I highly recommend visiting!
  • Don't forget they also need VolunPeers (do you see what they did there?), before and during the event, so check that out too please 🙏🏾
• 43:55 - Heather Reid 
  • Heather's blog 
  • Heather's LinkedIn
• 46:15 - Liza, the awesome teammate in question
• 46:41 - European Testing Conference led by Maaret Pyhäjärvi
  • While the event has stopped, you can still take a peek at their website
    
    

00:00 - Intro
00:48 - Welcome ramble
05:25 - Rich's question: An Engineer colleague wants to be coached on Quality Engineering, what do I do?
08:24 - Vern goes into coaching mode (shock!)
09:35 - Vern goes into teaching mode (shock!)
10:04 - Where could we start?
12:25 - Risk enters the chat...
14:50 - Quality enters the chat...
15:48 - Help them speak up and become a QA (Question Asker)
17:30 - Two powerful questions to get them thinking about quality
19:15 - The dangers of acting like an order taker...
19:57 - ...or are they?
21:45 - Uno Reverse! Is it true that all Engineers "love" writing code?
23:18 - Order Takers vs Experts
24:30 - Another powerful question to ask
25:47 - Rich's clarification sparks an idea about hats
27:17 - Slalom Sponsorship Appeal
27:41 - How do you decide when you have learned enough on a given topic?
29:21 - Majors and minors
30:55 - Learning modalities
31:42 - Learning tools
35:00 - A "syllabus" or roadmap starts to emerge
36:50 - What can the Engineer do to help the QEs in their life?
43:29 - Send us your ideas please
45:54 - The 1-to-many approach
47:53 - The classic mistake to avoid in this situation
49:15 - The relationship between testing and quality
52:10 - Vernon's people will contact Slalom's people

In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Richard and Vernon discuss the growth plans for testers in test automation, focusing on the importance of coding skills, exploratory testing, and the balance between generalist and specialist roles. They explore the need for measurable targets in personal development plans and the significance of understanding the context of problems in software development. The conversation also touches on the impact of AI on software engineering and the necessity for collaboration between testers and developers.

00:00 - Intro

01:42 - The Ramble begins

07:39 - QUESTION (Thanks Thierry!): "How do you see a growth plan for testers in test automation as a personal development plan?"

10:12 - How has Vern helped Testers create an automation development plan?

13:14 - What does it mean to go from novice to advanced?

15:15 - Rich wants to know what test automation means before answering the question!

15:57 - The nuance (and trap!) of the word "tool"

17:35 - Rich has come up with a new term for old testing

19:21 - What about code? Which languages should you learn?

20:34 - Vern's answer to a Redditor asking a similar question

23:34 - Don't forget the reason why we're trying to learn all of these tools and languages

24:24 - Who makes the "best" "automation" testers?

25:45 - What does it look like when an SDET hasn't learned how to identify the right test?

26:34 - Ok if that's you and your team, how can you make it work?

28:33 - Lord of the Rings testing!

29:40 - How does Alan Richardson defeat "Testing Sauron"? (I'll stop the LotR references now I swears it 😇)

31:07 - Noah Sussman's excellent early ideas to solve this problem

32:42 - Generalist or Specialist, what is the core, foundational knowledge needed to call yourself an engineer?

34:18 - ...and what about AI? (only took half an hour!)

35:10 - Vern wants to get back to work asap and start creating growth plans... but for who?

38:20 - What two things are often missed in growth plans?

40:41 - Rich talks about the tangible difference between being a novice and advanced SDET/Automation Specialist/Toolsmith

41:39 - The cognitive load of your engineers

42:17 - Production code vs Automation code: Which is more important? Rich breaks it down.

44:27 - What are we optimising for?

47:45 - Do we have to choose between readability and efficiency though?

52:52 - Learning through pain

54:12 - Rich and Vern wonder what they should do next

54:32 - What makes this relevant in today's job market

55:22 - One last wild take about software development careers...

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 03:23 - The Øredev conference in Malmö
  • Get your tickets here!
• 04:13 - The LLEWT peer testing workshop
  • Check out this summary from last years event by James Thomas
  • Read about the origins of this flavour of workshop
• 06:40 - Cynefin a sense-making framework devised by Dr Dave Snowden
  • Here's Dr Snowden explaining the framework
  • Enabling Constraints
  • The Paradox of Choice (which I didn't know was a book - readingList++)
• 07:39 - Here's the full question from Thierry as he asked it on LinkedIn
• 14:14 - "GUI Automation"
  • A term used to describe tools focused on driving browsers. Some examples of such tools would include Selenium, Cypress, Playwright, and Watir.
• 15:57 - I'll link to Rich's article once it's published 🙂
• 16:04 - Automation in Testing (AiT)
  • Automation in Testing references (via Perplexity)
• 16:18 - Some tools and frameworks Rich mentioned:
  • Selenium
  • Playwright
  • JUnit
• 18:50 - Rich's API Testing article on Qt QA blog
• 19:07 - Rich's article explaining the different kinds of GUI Automation
• 19:21 - What's a scripting language vs an object-oriented language?
  • According to Perplexity
  • Key takeaway: These are not mutually exclusive terms and label to two different aspects of programming languages
    • Scripting: how code is run
    • Object-orietned: how code is organised
• 19:36 - Programming languages
  • TypeScript
  • Java
  • C# (pronounced "See-Sharp")
  • JavaScript
• 19:52 - Mark Winteringham
  • Mark's website
  • Mark's GenAI book
  • Mark's LinkedIn
• 20:34 - The article called "Career Advice For A 35+ Year Old Manual Tester"
• 26:54 - Erik "I love orange" Davis
  • Erik's LinkedIn
• 27:42 - Rich's S.A.C.R.E.D. model
• 29:40 - Alan Richardson
  • Alan's website
  • Alan's Patreon community
  • Alan's LinkedIn
• 31:02 - Noah Sussman
  • Noah's stupendous blog post "How to teach yourself to be a technical tester: some thoughts."
  • Noah's LinkedIn
  • Highly recommend that you watch Noah's talks on anyOfTheThings
• 32:24 - Then the effervescent Michael Larsen actually went through the thing!
  • He documented his journey with it too.

In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, the hosts discuss the significance of social media and community interaction in the software testing field. They explore how social media has evolved, the importance of content creation, and the balance between personal goals and professional networking. The conversation also touches on their favorite podcasts and books, as well as future directions for their own show.

• 06:10 - Olly Fairhall
  • Olly's LinkedIn
  • Olly's Bluesky
• 11:27 - Chris Armstrong
  • Chris's blog
  • Chris's podcast The Testing Peers (of PeersCon fame!)
  • Chris's YouTube
  • Chris's LinkedIn
• 19:52 - Anne-Marie Charrett
  • Anne-Marie's book (why are you still here? Go and buy it right now!)
  • Anne-Marie's blog
  • Anne-Marie's LinkedIn
• 28:21 - Angie Jones
  • Angie's website (including links to her public GitHub repos, blog, and allTheSocialMedia profiles - I told you she was prolific!)
• 28:33 - Gops
  • To prove my point, I cannot find this man's LinkedIn profile 🤦🏾‍♂️😂 (this is a dude who I've known for multiple decades btw!)
• 34:05 - I work at Phrase, I'm having a great time, and we're hiring (and if you see something you like, apply! Just don't forget to tell them Vern sent you! 🙂)
• 34:36 - People who help me think about testing (and life in general)
  • Angie (scroll up for the links!)
  • Ash Coleman Hynie's LinkedIn (don't forget to check out the app she's building over at CountrPT!)
  • Martin Hynie's LinkedIn (check out his new podcast The Ghost In Th Machine explaining AI!)
  • James Thomas's LinkedIn (he also has a wonderful blog)
• 37:35 - Dean Moon
  • Dean's website
  • Dean's LinkedIn
• 37:35 - Jit Gosai
  • Jit's blog 
  • Jit's Quality Engineering Newsletter 
  • Jit's LinkedIn
• 48:47 - Our influences
  • Vernon
    • Diary Of A CEO (DOAC)
    • Modern Wisdom
    • Owner Nation
    • Big Deal
    • Same As Ever by Morgan Housel
    • Things I need to go back and binge
      • AB Testing podcast
      • Quality Talks podcast
      • Testing Peers podcast
  • Richard
    • Engineering Quality podcast
    • Secrets Of Consulting by Jerry Weinberg
    • Explore It! by Elisabeth Hendrickson
    • Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
    • Agile Testing and More Agile Testing both by Lisa Crispin and Janet Gregory
• 57:03 - Rachel Mlota
  • Rachel's YouTube
  • Rachel's LinkedIn
    
    

00:00 - Intro
00:46 - Welcome (Tiredness, Sleeper walls, sweaty chilli, and strongman training)
05:59 - QUESTION (Observation? Comment? Ramble? Whatever it is, thanks Olly!): How important is social media and community interaction to testing?
06:46 - Vernon's experience of social media over the years
08:30 - The impact of the "Influencer" phenomenon on testing
09: 59 - The golden age of Testing Twitter
10:57 - What LinkedIn can't replace
12:10 - The LinkedIn algorithm is weird!
13:15 - Algorithm anxiety and the overthinking spiral
15:45 - Community: planned vs organic
17:24 - Lurkers, reactors, and why it still counts
18:04 - To be or not to be... an influencer?
20:07 - Rich reflects on the impact of social media on him and testing
24:00 - Vern reflects on the impact of social media on him and testing
25:35 - The power of sharing with purpose (not just promoting yourself)
27:19 - QUESTION (From Olly): There seems to be a push to create content. What do you think about that?
30:12 - What is "content" anyway?
31:09 - Angie's 1-2-punch for content creation (that we should all copy!)
32:39 - Do you know why you're posting in the first place?!
33:23 - The impact of talking about testing (it's not just about "likes")
37:35 - Rabbiting on about writing
40:31 - Talking vs Doing
41:12 - Goal confusion & content fatigue
44:20 - Now that we mention it, what are OUR goals for content and social media?!
48:47 - QUESTION: What podcasts do you listen to, what books do you read, and do any of them influence what you'd like to do with the show?
57:20 - Where are we taking the podcast?
58:24 - Is Salesforce as dull as Rich thinks?
59:35 - Outro

In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Vernon and Richard discuss various topics, including personal updates, mental health, the role of gatekeeping in quality assurance, mentoring experiences, and effective onboarding strategies. They emphasise the importance of community support, advocating for mental health awareness, and the nuances of being a gatekeeper in professional settings. The conversation also delves into the dynamics of mentoring, the significance of setting clear goals, and the art of making suggestions in new environments.

00:00 - Intro

01:06 - Where have we been for a month?

06:16 - Men's Mental Health

09:46 - The Questions!

10:10 - QUESTION: To gate-keep, or not to gate-keep? That is the question from Deb Sherwood

22:05 - Olly impersonates Emily

22:33 - QUESTION: Mentorship advice

27:25 - Coaching vs Mentoring

28:10 - Vern's good and bad with experiences mentoring

28:57 - What role does accountability play in this?

29:38 - Informal mentoring

30:48 - Rich shares his experience mentoring a colleague

31:46 - Rich's good and bad experiences with mentoring

33:44 - Putting 💰 on the line

35:45 - Energy Vampires 🧛🏾

37:16 - The upside of being a mentor

39:17 - QUESTION: Onboarding into a new team or to a new product

40:40 - Rich's two-step process when he's in this situation

43:50 - Vern's kids teach him a valuable communication technique

45:24 - "Asking" & "Suggesting"

48:28 - The danger of suggesting things blindly

51:15 - Leadership inception

54:40 - Outro

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 06:16 - Manchester Tech Festival
  • The MTF Mixer: Male Mental Health featuring
  • Kofi Josephs
    • Kofi's website for Why Not I
    • Kofi's Instagram
    • Kofi's LinkedIn
  • Jamie Lee Dennis
    • Jamie's LinkedIn
    • Jamie's website for Mandem Meetup
  • Dmitry Leyko
    • Dmitry's LinkedIn
  • James Davies
    • James' LinkedIn
• 08:56 - Vern's travels
  • Frankfurt for German Testing Days with Beren Van Daele
    • RiskStorming Online
  • Prague to meet my Phrase teammates
  • Manchester Tech Festival in... Manchester!
  • Zurich for GreaTest Conference
  • Liverpool to celebrate Liverpool FC winning the Premier League!
• 10:10 - Deb Sherwood
  • Deb's LinkedIn
• 15:37 - Jobs To Be Done (JTBD)
  • Courtesy of Perplexity, here are some references you might find useful that explain the JTBD concept
• 25:00 - S.M.A.R.T. goals
• 27:25 - The coaching vs mentoring rabbit hole on earlier episodes
• 29:13 - Ryan Cox
  • Ryan's website (if you check him out, tell him Vern sent you!)
  • Ryan's LinkedIn
• 35:45 - The Software Testers Journey book, written by Nicola Lindgren and me
• 40:30 - Automation in Testing references (via Perplexity)
• 41:18 - Resources about the 10 Ps of Testability
  • Article on testability featuring the 10 Ps
  • The book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney
    
    

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Vernon and Richard celebrate Liverpool's recent football victory while seamlessly transitioning into a discussion about automation in testing. They explore the definitions of automation, the importance of having a unified codebase for tests, and the challenges of choosing the right programming language for testing tools. The duo emphasizes the significance of collaboration between developers and testers, the need for regular review of tests, and the impact of context on decision-making in automation. The conversation is filled with insights and practical advice for anyone involved in software testing. In this conversation, Vernon and Richard explore the complexities of development and testing, focusing on the importance of language consistency, the role of developers in testing culture, and the challenges of tool standardization. They discuss the perception of automation skills in the industry, the distinction between coding and technical skills, and the need for context in automation. The conversation also touches on the future of AI in development and the balance between technical skills and automation. Finally, they share upcoming events and opportunities for community engagement.

* AI Generated show notes

00:00 Football Triumphs and Rivalries
01:43 Diving into Automation
04:28 Understanding Automation in Testing
05:58 Frameworks and Code Repositories
08:29 The Role of Developers in Automation
11:08 Challenges in Automation Implementation
13:11 Best Practices for Test Code Management
19:13 Building Communication Between Components
21:13 Understanding Context and Testability
23:21 The Dilemma of Skipping Tests
25:29 The Importance of Test Review and Discipline
27:55 Navigating Commercial Pressures in Testing
29:32 The Complexity of Automation in Different Languages
42:16 The Misconception of Technical Skills in Automation
45:45 The Automation Misconception
48:44 Technical Skills vs. Coding Skills
52:32 Understanding the Role of Automation
56:01 The Future of Testing in an AI World
59:46 The Value of Critical Thinking in Testing
01:03:36 Navigating the Job Market as a Tester
01:08:48 Upcoming Events and Community Engagement

In this episode, Richard and Vernon discuss various aspects of job stability in the tech industry post-pandemic, the impact of innovation on job longevity, and the dynamics of accidental management. They explore the changing landscape of tech roles, the importance of ratios between developers and testers in projects, and the evolving nature of go/no-go decisions in software releases. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear metrics and standards to facilitate smoother decision-making processes in tech teams.

00:00 - Intro

01:07 - Welcome to the Vernon Richard Emily Show

01:35 - Our viral moment

03:07 - Question: Do you think people are staying in tech jobs longer since the pandemic? The old time in role used to be about 2 years right?

17:00 - Income worries and diversification

20:20 - Question: I see loads of developers become accidental managers, but i don't think that's as common for testers - what do you think?

23:40 - Can Testing specialists become Engineering Managers (and beyond)?

26:06 - How does being a Quality Engineer impact your chances?

28:25 - Lived experience vs coaching

31:08 - We're already doing management and leadership

32:19 - What career paths are open to people with a testing background?

33:59 - Question: Do you think there is a good target ratio of dev:test professionals in greenfield projects? Brownfield projects etc. If not, what sort of thing do you think that depends on?

34:40 - It depends! On the project demands

35:20 - It depends! On what kind of people are in the team

37:10 - It depends! On testability

37:33 - And Rich's answer is...

39:19 - Sometimes you can't coach your way out of a situation

40:50 - It depends! On what good looks like

41:25 - It depends! On where the company is in it's life

44:35 - Question: My team release software to customers 1-2 times a week. Who do you think should be in that "go/no go" conversation?

46:46 - It depends 🤦🏾‍♂️

48:16 - go/no go meetings in 2002 versus 2025

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 01:35 - Our most viral video to date
  • It's the short Sometimes it's best to quit your job
• 05:02 - Gary Stevenson, economist, trader, author
  • Gary's website
  • Gary's YouTube "Gary's Economics"
  • Gary's book "The Trading Game"
• 13:02 - Graham Freeburn
  • Happy retirement Graham!
• 17:00 - Here's the phrase Vernon butchered and what he was trying to convey
• 28:41 - The definition of coaching
  • The International Coaching Federation (ICF) define coaching as: "Partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential."
  • Here's Vernon explaining it during a presentation at Agile Testing Days
• 37:10 - Resources about the 10 Ps of Testability
  • Article on testability featuring the 10 Ps
  • The book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney
    
    

In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Richard and Vernon delve into the intricacies of career journeys in software testing, discussing the significance of job titles, the importance of positioning oneself within a role, and the challenges faced in consulting. They explore how to define one's role and impact, navigate client expectations, and the evolution of job descriptions in the tech industry. The conversation emphasizes the need for continuous learning and adapting to different contexts, ultimately highlighting the importance of effective communication and self-reflection in shaping a successful career.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Career Journeys
03:49 The Importance of Job Titles
10:08 Positioning and Expectations in Roles
20:37 Defining Roles and Responsibilities
27:47 Evolution of Testing Roles
29:09 Navigating Challenges in Testing
30:08 The Role of Leadership in Quality Assurance
31:09 Understanding Job Expectations in Consulting
32:28 The Importance of Experience in Consulting
34:38 Context Gathering for Effective Consulting
36:33 Identifying Root Causes in Testing Issues
37:25 Adapting Responses Based on Context
38:51 The Art of Job Crafting
41:38 Shifting Perspectives on Best Practices
44:16 Balancing Expectations and Reality in Consulting
47:17 Recognizing When to Walk Away
48:39 The Impact of Context on Job Titles
51:48 Reflecting on Skills Beyond Job Titles

Summary

In this episode, Vernon and Richard reflect on their experiences at the PeersCon conference, discussing the engaging keynote speakers, insightful workshops, and the overall atmosphere of the event. They share their thoughts on various talks, emphasizing the importance of communication, quality, and personal growth in the software testing industry. The conversation highlights the value of community and collaboration, as well as the significance of learning from both successes and failures in one's career. In this episode, Vernon and Richard reflect on their experiences at PeersCon, discussing memorable moments, workshops attended, and the importance of communication in the testing field. They delve into specific workshops like Pipeline and Risk Storming, and the game 'Defend the Indefensible', which encourages critical thinking and perspective-taking. The conversation also touches on feedback for future events, emphasizing the need for a balance between communication and testing topics, and the importance of recognizing the efforts of event organizers.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Conference Overview

03:42 Reflections on PeersCon and Community Engagement

06:35 Keynote Highlights and Speaker Insights

09:30 Workshops and Learning Experiences

12:29 Communication and Quality in Software Development

15:27 Personal Growth and Career Development

18:22 Closing Thoughts and Future Events

25:06 Exploring Engaging Talks at the Conference

27:57 Tom's Journey: From Manufacturing to Software Testing

29:10 Linda's Comedy of Errors: A Unique Perspective on Automation

32:43 The Reality of Coding: Enjoyment vs. Competence

39:37 Networking and Unexpected Encounters at the Venue

42:57 Workshops: Enhancing Technical Understanding and Communication Skills

52:17 The Importance of Communication in IT and Life

54:39 Feedback and Constructive Criticism

57:36 Balancing Communication and Testing in Conferences

01:00:29 Enhancing Event Experience and Sponsor Engagement

01:04:34 Acknowledging Organizers and Their Contributions

01:08:34 Sustaining Affordability and Accessibility in Events

Links to come!

In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, the hosts delve into the nuances of Continuous Delivery and Continuous Deployment, exploring how testing practices evolve in these environments. They discuss the skills required for testers, the importance of risk management, and the cultural shifts necessary for effective quality assurance. The conversation highlights the need for collaboration within teams and the role of testers as facilitators rather than gatekeepers. The episode concludes with reflections on the importance of understanding quality and risk in software development.

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 01:35 - Quality Talks
  • Check out their awesome new website
• 02:37 - The Agile Testing Days Conference
  • Oh! Their Call For Papers is open until the end of March. You should submit!
• 02:42 - Johnny J. Jones
  • Johnny's LinkedIn
• 03:23 - Continuous Delivery & Continuous Deployment
  • What is Continuous Delivery?
  • What is Continuous Deployment?
• 03:31 - Abby Bangser
  • Abby's LinkedIn
• 05:24 - Keith Klain
  • Keith's blog
  • Keith's podcast
  • Keith's LinkedIn
• 23:51 - Dan Ashby's famous post called "Continuous Testing" (featuring his famous diagram!)
• 28:45 - James Bach's Test Jumper concept
  • James' website
  • James' LinkedIn
• 31:20 - All of these people should probably change their last names to "Bourne"
• 40:18 - James Christie
  • James' blog
  • James' body of work regarding the Post Office Scandal
• 43:37 - Trunk-Based Thierry de Pauw
  • Thierry's website
  • Thierry's LinkedIn
• 48:30 - Jerry Weinberg's 2nd Law of Consulting from his book The Secrets of Consulting
  • "No matter how it looks at first, it's always a people problem."
  • Find more of Jerry's quotes on this page
  • Jerry's Wikipedia page (his books are highly recommended)

Bonus links to further study on the topic:

• 
  What's the difference between Continuous Delivery and Continuous Deployment?
• The book Continuous Delivery, seminal work on the topic by Dave Farley & Jez Humble
• Speaking of Dave Farley...
  • You can visit his website to find links to allTheThings
  • Here's his excellent YouTube channel Modern Software Engineering
  • He's written a second book Modern Software Engineering
• Speaking of Jez Humble...
  • He wrote the excellent book Accelerate with lead author Dr. Nicole Forsgren (<- all of Dr. Nicole's work is recommended reading at this point)
  • And here's his website
• I asked ChatGPT for some resources and it gave me this list (proceed with caution just in case!). 

00:00 - Intro

01:06 - Merch tangent

02:53 - Today's topic:

• What skills and behaviours does a Tester need, in order to be successful when they work in a CI/CD context?
• What does testing look like in a team using CI/CD?

04:08 - ⚽️ Footy

04:40 - Compare and contrast

07:00 - What conversation(s) needs to happen before "pressing the button" and who needs to be involved in it?

08:25 - Deployed Vs Released

13:37 - Monitoring and tooling to enable CI/CD practices

17:25 - Where/how do reviews fit into this?

20:38 - Back to Shift Left!

23:51 - Where does the testing happen?

24:36 - The link between chef Gordon Ramsey and software testing

25:45 - What are we reeeally talking about here?

27:09 - How to reframe things when someone makes the polarising claim "We don't need Testers in CI/CD/DevOps teams"

29:35 - Q: So how would I test differently if I were a Tester in a CI/CD team? A: Test like Jason Bourne.

32:00 - The value of having a tool belt and using it regularly

33:06 - How to catch a unicorn? How to unbundle testing skills

35:40 - This all loops back to risks & culture

37:03 - Where would it be a bad idea to use Continuous Deployment?

40:45 - Q: So how would I test differently if I were a Tester in a CI/CD team? A: Test like a Circus Ringmaster.

42:39 - Moar Shift Left: Real Devs build on Main

48:48 - Modern Vs Traditional mindsets

50:30 - Quality enters the chat...

51:00 - The relationship between risk and quality

52:47 - Testing Vs Quality Engineering

55:50 - ⚽️ Footy