The Way We Live Now

Luke Clifton, chair of the Australian Men’s Shed Association, joins Karen Christensen from Sydney to discuss one of the world’s most influential community movements. Clifton tells the story of how “men’s sheds” began in the 1990’s, expanding so widely that there are now more sheds than McDonald’s (Macca’s) in Australia. He explains why this special “’third place” model has had such impact, first for older men and now increasingly for younger generations and white-collar workers, and women, too. It has given retired men a way to be useful and to build relationships in a way that feels authentic and comfortable—shoulder to shoulder, as the association’s slogan puts it. We hear about innovations like the visits from mobile medical units, how men’s sheds are funded, how the model is spreading globally, and why the conversations that arise naturally while working together—shoulder to shoulder—have had such a positive effect on men’s lives.

Australian Men’s Sheds Association

Luke Clifton

A wide-ranging conversation with Titas De Sarkar, a scholar who focuses on youth culture, about "third places" and the conversational tradition of adda, which Kolkata, a city in Bengal, India, is known for. Speaking from Kolkata, he explains the lively engagement found in adda discussions and debates, and how this tradition provides a model for anyone seeking to improve civic life and create vibrant third places. He and Karen Christensen discuss how rising real estate prices make informal gathering spots harder to find, as well as the problem of place in general, especially for young people and anyone with little disposal income. De Sarkar describes the rowaks of Kolkata, simple concrete platforms that extend from old-fashioned row houses, where people sit and “give adda”—a telling example of how the right design can promote social life.

Guillermo Bernal of Placemaking Mexico joins Karen Christensen to explore "sobre mesa," the Spanish and Mexican tradition of lingering at the table long after the meal is over. They consider the way many restaurants have traded lingering for turnover and how successful neighborhood spots can also serve as "third places" and even outlast the ones chasing profit. This is a conversation about hospitality, community, and the customs and rituals that make eating together a central part of living the good life.

Guillermo Bernal Profile

Placemaking Mexico

Fundación Placemaking México

Antti Jauhiainen, a postgraduate researcher in Finland, joins Karen Christensen to talk about “bar parliaments,” a familiar Finnish term for the third places where people linger and talk. Not always about politics, of course, but politics are part of the conversation even when there is disagreement. Other aspects include social welfare and the welfare state, the informal nature of third places, and why third places can’t have an agenda. Naturally, Karen and Antti also talk about the sauna, another well-known Finnish gathering place.

Jim Peters, president of the Responsible Hospitality Institute, joins Karen Christensen to talk about third places in the context of the “happy hour.” Jim explains how the commercial notion of a happy hour came about, how it evolved, why many states shut them down, and his involvement in the first ban in Springfield, Massachusetts. Happy hours have been banned in Massachusetts for many years. But there’s a distinct possibility that our laws will change, thanks to the “Tartan Army” that came to Boston for the World Cup (”No Scotland, no party”). Jim has some thoughts about how best to do this, while Karen makes a pitch for a daily happy hour in a third place.

Responsible Hospitality Institute: sociablecity.org.

Emma Urdangen’s article “Pull up a stool: A guide to happy hour in Evanston.”

“Where Massachusetts wants to take its Scottish love affair next | Gov. Maura Healey discussed what the Tartan Army takeover of Boston has to do with her affordability agenda.”

“This grandma fought for a bill to allow happy hour at retirement homes | Anita LeBrun said she hoped to enjoy a drink with her friends, but it was also a matter of independence.”

A conversation about cafes, bistros, pub sheds, apartment cafes, and more—as well as Antoine Burret’s current initiative, Europa Cafes—and how they work as third places or tiers lieux. These diverse places, and ideas about their importance, can be a puzzle, and Antoine (in Geneva) and Karen Christensen (in Massachusetts) tease out common factors. Political conversation is on the agenda, so they also discuss the role of such places in France, Serbia, Cuba, and the United States. They consider the challenges that face both businesses and nonprofits that aim to be third places and promote social life. Antoine also provides history of the way “third place” became equated with coworking in Europe and then part of French government policy and funding. We discuss how the definition has been evolving, and breaking down.

Europa Cafes www.europacafes.org

Antoine’s book, Nos Tiers Lieux: https://fypeditions.com/nos-tiers-lieux-defendre-les-lieux-de-sociabilite-du-quotidien/

Karen’s forthcoming The Great Good Place II: https://greatgoodplace.org

Foucault concept: “heterotopia,” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterotopia_(space)

Mentioned when talking about Serbia: Milena Dragićević Šešić’s biography is available here: https://www.unesco.org/creativity/en/biography/milena-dragicevic-sesic

Urban policy and housing expert Diana Lind joins Karen Christensen to discuss her Washington Post opinion piece “America is becoming a nation of homebodies.” They discuss the connection between the housing crisis and the loneliness epidemic, both topics we’ve been hearing about a lot. They also talked about the reasons people stick with big properties even when life might be better, simpler, and more social in a smaller home. And Diana explains how there are business opportunities and policy levers such as permitting reform and improved transit that can be used to make it more likely that more of us will leave home.

Show Notes

Brave New Home: Our Future in Smarter, Simpler, Happier Housing

The New Urban Order at Substack

“America is becoming a nation of homebodies,” Washington Post, August 2025.

“Sober Up, Harvard,” Harvard Crimson. (Mentioned in the show.)

We read biography and memoir to be titillated, but we’re also looking for ways to understand ourselves and our world, and ways to tell our own stories. Carl Rollyson joins Karen Christensen to talk about the idea that every biography is an autobiography. Given how much we hear today about the need for politicians to be “authentic,” it is instructive to hear how Carl’s subjects took on different roles at different stages of their lives, and how we write, and read, biography in order to live vicariously, to experience other possible lives. Carl also discusses his forthcoming book about presidential biography, from the University of Virginia Press, in which he writes about everyone from George Washington to Donald Trump--and finds a startling parallel in the lives of two men whom one might think came from different planets. He calls them “providential presidents,” in the sense that many of their followers believe them to have been sent by providence—or God. Carl’s comparison is fascinating and persuasive, and useful in the context of the slogan “No Kings.” What if 30% of Americans still want to have a king? We wrap with a few words about Carl’s next project, a biography of Herman Melville, author of Moby Dick.

Host Karen Christensen is joined by sociologist Katherine Giuffre, now retired to Italy, who used Ray Oldenburg’s The Great Good Place with her students for many years. They share a concern that term “third place” is being used indiscriminately, diluting the original meaning and making it harder to find the social connections we need. They talk about distinctive features of a third place, and how having a third place of your own manifests itself. Kathy’s amusing story about a crisis at the pub-restaurant in a tiny Italian village illustrates some of the things she considers most important.