The World According to Boyar

Microcap investing is one of the last inefficient corners of the stock market, and Ian Cassel has spent 25 years in it. On this episode of The World According to Boyar, Jonathan Boyar talks with the founder of MicroCapClub, portfolio manager at Intelligent Fanatics Capital Management, and author of Stock Picker about why the big institutions can't own these stocks, why most microcaps have to be sold within three years even when they work, and what it actually costs a small company to be public (less than the headlines say). Ian walks through a stock he bought after a fat-finger seller dumped 5% of the company in a day,  and the 76 stock-promotion mailers he tracked in a spreadsheet. He explains what he looks for in a microcap CEO, why a CEO who owns 20% of the company can still be the problem, and the story of the Judas goat, which is about how not to build a reputation as a stock picker. And Jonathan asks him whether he'd ever take MicroCapClub public. The answer is short.

Key Points From This Episode 

• Why microcap investing differs from investing in mid- and large-cap companies.
• The structural inefficiencies Ian believes create opportunities for smaller investors.
• Why Ian views microcaps as particularly suited to investors willing to conduct their own research and form independent conviction.
• The role profitability plays when Ian evaluates microcap companies.
• Why small, profitable businesses might choose to enter the public markets.
• How the research process for microcaps differs from larger cap companies.
• Why management quality becomes increasingly important as companies get smaller.
• How Ian looks for repeat winners and management teams that have previously demonstrated entrepreneurial success.
• Why management changes can provide opportunities to identify potential turnaround situations.
• Why Ian's intention is to hold investments forever, but the fragility of small businesses often makes that difficult.
• The concentration risks that can make microcap businesses more vulnerable.
• Why some microcap companies experience only a "season of winning."
• The importance of knowing when to sell and accepting portfolio turnover.
• Why Ian looks for companies that dominate niche markets and can expand into adjacent opportunities.Ian's investment in IHC and what attracted him to the company.
• Lessons from Ian's investment in disaster-remediation company lnfrasource Holdings around Hurricane Katrina.
• How and why Ian founded MicroCapClub as a private community for experienced microcap investors.
• The evolution of MicroCapClub from an idea-generation resource into a global microcap investing community.Ian's acquisition of Planet MicroCap and his ambitions for its investor events.
• The story of the "Judas goat" and its lesson for aspiring stock pickers.
• Warning signs for investors entering the microcap market and Ian's experience tracking promotional stock reports.
• Why Ian suggests new microcap investors focus on profitable businesses. Ian's perspective on insider ownership and why he does not use a specific ownership threshold.

Links:

To find out more about the Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com 
To learn more about Ian Cassell and MicroCapClub, please visit microcapclub.com
Ian Cassell's book, Stock Picker, is available on Amazon and wherever books are sold. 

Important Disclosures:

 
The information herein is provided by Boyar's Intrinsic Value Research LLC ("Boyar Research") and: (a) is for general, informational purposes only; (b) is not tailored to the specific investment needs of any specific person or entity; and ( c) should not be construed as investment advice. 
http://www.boyarvaluegroup.com 
Boyar Research does not offer investment advisory services and is not an investment adviser registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC") or any other regulatory body. Any opinions expressed herein represent current opinions of Boyar Research only, and no representation is made with respect to the accuracy, completeness or timeliness of the information herein. Boyar Research assumes no obligation to update or revise such information. 
In addition, certain information herein has been provided by and/or is based on third party sources, and, although Boyar Research believes this information to be reliable, Boyar Research has not independently verified such information and is not responsible for third-party errors. You should not assume that any investment discussed herein will be profitable or that any investment decisions in the future will be profitable. Investing in securities involves risk, including the possible loss of principal. Important Information: Past performance does not guarantee future results. 

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Chris Mayer, author of 100 Baggers and The Investor's Odyssey, on what three years on a public company board taught him, how he uses AI as a junior analyst, and what he actually does when a position gets cut in half. Stick around after the goodbye, where we talk stocks unfiltered.

Chris Mayer was the very first guest on The World According to Boyar back in 2018. Eight years later he's back, and he brought a new book with him. Chris runs Woodlock House Family Capital, wrote 100 Baggers, one of my favorite investing books, and just published The Investor's Odyssey, which uses Homer's story of Odysseus tying himself to the mast as a way of thinking about how investors protect themselves from their own worst instincts.

This one covers a lot of ground. Chris explains why he now starts many positions at 2% and lets them earn their way to a full weighting, why he cut most financial media out of his life, and why he believes the return you get on a stock varies inversely with the thickness of the research file. We spend a good chunk of time on Constellation Software, and I asked him what he'd need to see to actually sell it. He of course gave a thoughtful answer.

Chris also talks candidly about his three years on the board of Teqnion, a Swedish public company: the gap between what the board knows and what outside investors think they know, why it gave him more respect for activists, and why he'd join the board of every company he owns if he could. And we compare notes on AI. He has a page-and-a-half prompt that does in 15 minutes what he says would take a junior analyst a couple of weeks.

After we said goodbye, the record button was still on and we kept talking stocks. With Chris's permission, that conversation is at the end of the episode. Names that come up include Pool Corp, Uber, Brown & Brown, Markel, W.R. Berkley, and Rollins.

Get Chris's new book: The Investor's Odyssey

What we cover:

• How managing outside money changed Chris after years of writing a newsletter, and why the losses hurt more
• Why you don't really understand a stock until you own it, and the case for 2% starter positions
• Tying yourself to the mast: the habits Chris uses to save himself from himself
• Sosnoff's Law, or why the best ideas tend to have the thinnest research files
• What Chris looks for in quarterly reports when the plan is to hold for ten years
• Constellation Software: how Chris thinks about a big drawdown when the numbers haven't changed
• Why negative narratives are hard to argue with, and what the late 1990s "old economy" stocks can teach us about AI
• What he actually does when a position is down 30, 40, or 50% (Chuck Akre's advice: do your yoga)
• How Chris spends his day: 80% on existing holdings, 20% on new ideas
• Expert networks, and why maybe 20% of what you hear is worth anything
• AI as a junior analyst: what it does well, and which skills will still matter for investors
• Three years on a public company board: what the outside never sees
• Taxes, holding periods, and whether Chris would invest any differently in a tax-free account
• Thoughts on Pool Corp, Uber, Brown & Brown, Markel, W.R. Berkley, and Rollins

About Chris Mayer

Chris Mayer is the portfolio manager and co-founder of Woodlock House Family Capital, a concentrated, long-term fund he launched in January 2019 after serving as chief investment officer of the Bonner family office. Before that he spent more than a decade writing the investment newsletter Capital & Crisis. He is the author of 100 Baggers: Stocks That Return 100-to-1 and How to Find Them, How Do You Know?, and his newest book, The Investor's Odyssey. Chris sits on the board of Teqnion, a publicly traded Swedish industrial acquirer.

Links

• The Investor's Odyssey: https://www.amazon.com/Investors-Odyssey-Resisting-Sirens-Playing/dp/B0GJ3G6F2S
• 100 Baggers: https://www.amazon.com/100-Baggers-Stocks-100-1/dp/1621291650
• Woodlock House Family Capital: https://www.woodlockhousefamilycapital.com
• Chris on X: https://x.com/chriswmayer

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Red Apple Group founder John Catsimatidis on turning $5 million of Manhattan real estate into $100 million, financing an empire on vendor credit, and the one major business decision he hasn't made yet. 

Episode Overview

John Catsimatidis arrived in New York from a tiny Greek island at six months old, the son of a lighthouse keeper who worked as a busboy to feed his family. He left NYU eight credits short of an engineering degree for the chance to own a piece of the supermarket where he'd been working—and by his twenty-fifth birthday, he owned ten of them. Today his Red Apple Group spans supermarkets, an oil refinery, more than four hundred gas stations, a real-estate portfolio stretching from Manhattan to Florida, and WABC Radio, where he is still on the air nearly every day. Forbes puts his fortune north of $4 billion.

In this episode, Jonathan Boyar sits down with John for a conversation about how the empire actually got built: the vendor credit that stood in for capital before he had any, why he started opening his stores on Sundays (it wasn't the sales—it was making sure the checks he'd written on Friday would clear on Monday), and the Manhattan buildings he began buying in 1977—when, in his words, "the world was coming to an end in New York"—because he needed somewhere to put his stores. Within a few years, $5 million had become $100 million. One of his suppliers saw it coming before he did, telling him over lunch: "You're going to wake up one day and you're going to be worth a lot of money."

Catsimatidis also speaks candidly about succession—his children, he says, "want nothing to do with retail," and a decision about the future of Gristedes is coming in the next few years—and about what he'd do if the new mayor asked him to run New York City's grocery stores himself. At its heart, this is a story that anyone who follows the Boyar Value Group's investment philosophy will recognize: a collection of hard assets compounding quietly for half a century, worth far more than the world realized. Except John Catsimatidis never had to convince the market of anything. He owned the whole thing.

Key Topics Covered

• How a clerk at a friend's supermarket ended up owning ten stores by age 25
• Why he opened on Sundays—a survival story about clearing checks, not chasing sales
• Building Red Apple on vendor credit
• The 1977–78 Manhattan real estate purchases that became his first $100 million
• Buying United Refining out of bankruptcy—and what "leadership" means in a turnaround
• The charter jet fleet he built and sold to the man who created NetJets
• The succession question: his children, Gristedes, and what happens next
• What he'd do if the mayor asked him to run New York City's grocery stores
• His plans for WABC—and why, at 77, he still broadcasts nearly every day

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Wall Street Journal journalist Justin Baer on Fidelity’s private empire, the Johnson family, Jerry Tsai, and the company that helped reshape American investing.

Episode Overview

Fidelity is one of the most important financial companies in America — and also one of the least understood. Millions of Americans know it through their 401(k), brokerage account, or mutual funds, but few know the story behind the private, family-controlled Boston firm that helped reshape modern investing.

In this episode, Jonathan Boyar speaks with Wall Street Journal journalist Justin Baer, author of House of Fidelity, about how Fidelity evolved from a mutual fund company into a financial giant spanning asset management, retirement, brokerage, and custody. They discuss the rise of the star portfolio manager, including Jerry Tsai, one of the first true celebrities of the mutual fund industry, whose success helped change the way investment products were marketed.

The conversation also goes inside the Johnson family dynasty: Ned Johnson’s unconventional leadership, the internal skepticism Abby Johnson faced, the dramatic succession battle that followed, and the period when selling Fidelity was seriously considered. At the center of the story is a larger business lesson: Fidelity’s private ownership gave it the freedom to take risks, tolerate inefficiency, invest for the long term, and disrupt its own business in ways that would have been far harder as a public company.

Key Topics Covered

• How Fidelity became far more than a mutual fund company
• Why one of America’s most important financial firms is still so misunderstood
• How Fidelity helped turn stock pickers into stars
• Jerry Tsai, one of the first celebrity portfolio managers, and how he helped put Fidelity on the map
• Ned Johnson’s unusual leadership style and his willingness to take risks others would not
• Why staying private gave Fidelity a major competitive advantage
• The dramatic succession battle inside the Johnson family
• How Abby Johnson overcame internal skepticism and reshaped Fidelity’s future
• The moment selling Fidelity was seriously considered
• Whether Fidelity is likely to remain private for another generation

About Justin Baer

Justin Baer is a veteran journalist and editor at The Wall Street Journal and the author of House of Fidelity: The Rise of the Johnson Dynasty and the Company That Changed American Investing. His work focuses on major financial institutions, Wall Street, and the evolution of the investment management industry.

Click here to purchase House of Fidelity

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

CNBC’s Senior Markets Commentator—and the show’s first-ever repeat guest—on short selling, AI spending, market concentration, and why the bar is high for what’s been working to keep working.

Episode Overview

In this episode of The World According to Boyar, Jonathan Boyar welcomes back CNBC Senior Markets Commentator Michael Santoli—the first repeat guest in the show’s history, following his December 2020 appearance in the thick of COVID. Drawing on more than three decades covering Wall Street, Santoli breaks down his now-memorable on-air clash with Ryan Cohen over GameStop’s bid for eBay, the return of meme-stock speculation, and the question hanging over everything: Is this market 2021, 1999, or something genuinely new?

From AI capital spending and extreme market concentration to whether value and equal-weight stocks are finally due to lead, Santoli argues that today’s extremes do not yet match the dot-com peak. But, as he puts it, being told by your doctor that “you’re not literally the most unhealthy patient I’ve had in 30 years” does not mean “you’re in great shape.” It’s a clear-eyed, historically grounded read on the enduring mix of speculation and investment—what Santoli, invoking Buffett, calls “a casino attached to a church.”

Key Topics Covered:

Short sellers and the chilling effect: Why short selling is one of the most treacherous games in investing, the “alpha shorts” many hedge funds use, and why even legitimate short sellers have gone quiet.

The Ryan Cohen/GameStop showdown: The backstory behind a tense, revealing on-air exchange over GameStop’s bid for eBay—and what Santoli believes the Chewy-to-GameStop record reveals.

2021, 1999, or both? The retail-trader empowerment of 2021, the narrow-leadership echoes of the dot-com peak, and Santoli’s “unhealthy patient” analogy for today’s market froth.

AI spending and the hardware food chain: Why Santoli suspects the AI hardware complex may be overearning—and whether greater efficiency could eventually undermine today’s hardware economics.

Market concentration, reconsidered: Why a top-heavy S&P 500 may matter less than people fear—and how the bull case quietly shifted from “asset-light cash machines” to “asset-heavy, invest now, reap later.”

Will value and equal weight finally lead? Why durable rotations do not happen “at a full gallop,” and what the October-to-February broadening did—and did not—prove.

Why he doesn’t pick stocks: How being restricted from owning individual securities became “liberating,” his “voluntary tax on the arrogant” take on sports betting, and his philosophy of staying involved while keeping expectations in check.

The evolution of his CNBC role: From appearing on CNBC as a Barron’s contributor to becoming a market “color commentator” and co-anchor of Closing Bell: Overtime—and where financial media is heading as the business shifts toward digital.

The underreported story: The slow-moving demographic and global-population shifts—and the possibility that the Iran episode accelerates investment in renewables—that Santoli believes investors may be overlooking.

About Michael Santoli:

Michael Santoli is co-anchor of CNBC’s Closing Bell: Overtime and the network’s Senior Markets Commentator, with more than three decades of experience covering Wall Street. He began his career at Investment Dealers’ Digest before moving to Dow Jones Newswires. He later spent 15 years as a columnist and feature writer at Barron’s, where he wrote the Streetwise column, and was a Senior Columnist at Yahoo Finance before joining CNBC in 2015. A graduate of Wesleyan University, he lives in New York City.

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Episode Overview:

In this episode of The World According to Boyar, Jonathan Boyar speaks with Lina Tetelbaum, a corporate partner at Wachtell Lipton, one of the world’s most influential corporate law firms, where she heads the firm’s shareholder engagement and activism defense practice.

Lina takes us inside the world of shareholder activism — how activists choose targets, the small universe of ideas they typically push, how companies and boards respond, and why so many activist campaigns ultimately end in settlements rather than full proxy fights.

We discuss the tension between the changes activists typically call for and long-term business strategy, the role of index funds and proxy advisors, how activists build positions, what really happens behind the scenes in settlement negotiations, and why even controlled companies are not completely immune from activist pressure.

Lina also shares her perspective on Wachtell Lipton’s history in takeover defense and activism, from the era of the poison pill to today’s more complex battles between boards, activists, institutional investors, and other stakeholders.

Topics discussed include: shareholder activism, proxy fights, activist settlements, board governance, index funds, ISS and Glass Lewis, activist nominees, controlled companies, capital allocation, M&A, and long-term value creation.

To receive more of Boyar’s research, interviews, and thoughts on investing, subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com

About Lina Tetelbaum:

Elina (Lina) Tetelbaum is a Corporate Partner and Head of Shareholder Engagement and Activism Defense at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz.  Lina regularly counsels on proxy fights, takeover defense, corporate governance, crisis management and mergers and acquisitions. Lina has been named a Dealmaker of the Year by The American Lawyer, one of The Deal’s Top Women in Dealmaking, a Power Player in Shareholder Activism by Financier Worldwide, a Leading Partner in Shareholder Activism by Legal500, a Law360 Rising Star for M&A, and one of the 500 Leading Dealmakers in America by Lawdragon, among other honors.

Lina has advised companies in numerous industries navigating activist situations across an array of established and new activists, including Phillips 66 in its response to three years of activism from Elliott Management and first-ever contested vote by Elliott in the United States, United States Steel Corporation in its successful defense against a proxy contest by Ancora, The J.M. Smucker Co. in its response to activism by Elliott Management, Hexcel Corporation in response to activism by Vision One, Macy’s, Inc. in its response to activism and unsolicited takeover proposals, Match Group in its response to activism by Elliott Management and later Anson Funds, and numerous REITs in their response to activism by Land & Buildings.  Lina has extensive expertise advising companies in response to unsolicited takeover offers, including National Instruments in its $8.2 billion acquisition by Emerson following its unsolicited offer, and Kansas City Southern in its unsolicited transaction with Canadian National Railway and $31 billion acquisition by Canadian Pacific Railway. Lina has also advised public and private companies in a wide range of industries in mergers and acquisitions, including The Free Press in its acquisition by Paramount, Allergan in its $83 billion acquisition by AbbVie, PDC Energy in its $7.6 billion acquisition by Chevron and successful proxy fight defense against Kimmeridge, Barnes Group in its $3.6 billion acquisition by Apollo Global Management, and Masonite International in its $3.9 billion sale to Owens Corning.

Lina is the President of the Stuyvesant High School Alumni Association, an Advisory Board Member of the Harvard Law School Program on Corporate Governance, the John L. Weinberg Center for Corporate Governance at the University of Delaware, and the Yale Law School Center for the Study of Corporate law. She frequently lectures, presents and publishes on corporate governance and M&A at law schools and corporate governance conferences around the world. Lina received an A.B. magna cum laude in Economics from Harvard University and completed a J.D. from Yale Law School, where she served as editor-in-chief of the Yale Journal on Regulation and editor of the Yale Law Journal. After law school, Lina served as a law clerk to the Chief Judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Josh Brown and Michael Batnick on Ritholtz, Authenticity, and Why Risk Finds a Way

What began as a funny observation from Boyar Value Group founder Mark Boyar — that Josh Brown and Michael Batnick are “the Howard Stern of financial podcasting” — turned out to be a pretty good way into the real story.

Josh and Michael built an audience by being candid, irreverent, and willing to say things much of traditional Wall Street would rather leave unsaid. But underneath the humor is a serious wealth-management business, a disciplined investment process, and a culture that has become a magnet for clients and talent.

In this wide-ranging episode, Jonathan Boyar sits down with Josh and Michael to discuss Ritholtz Wealth Management, their highly successful Compound and Friends podcast, the dangers of making stock picks public, how to build a financial brand today, Porterhouse, and why — in markets as in business — risk finds a way.

Key Topics Covered:

• Authenticity as a Competitive Advantage
• How Josh and Michael built trust by being candid, irreverent, self-aware, and willing to sound different from traditional Wall Street.
• The Real Business Behind Ritholtz
• Why Ritholtz is not simply a content platform attached to an RIA, but a serious wealth-management firm that also creates influential financial media.
• Building a Talent and Client Flywheel
• How Ritholtz’s audience has helped attract clients, advisors, employees, and like-minded people who already understand the firm’s culture.
• Why Wealth Management Became One of Wall Street’s Best Businesses
• Josh explains why the RIA model has become such a powerful business and how wealth management has reshaped financial media and Wall Street.
• Could Ritholtz Be Built Again Today?
• Josh and Michael discuss whether their content-driven model could be replicated now, and why LinkedIn, YouTube, and owning a niche matter more than ever.
• CNBC, Media, and Market Commentary
• How Josh prepares for CNBC and how Michael has helped sharpen that process.
• The Danger of Public Stock Picks
• Michael draws on lessons from his book Big Mistakes to explain why publicly discussing investments can make it harder to change your mind.
• Porterhouse and Rules-Based Investing
• Josh and Michael discuss Ritholtz’s new Porterhouse equity strategy and why systematic rules can help investors avoid emotional mistakes.
• Why Risk Finds a Way
• A discussion of market leadership, momentum, and the idea that new opportunities tend to emerge even after difficult periods.

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, MGM Resorts CEO Bill Hornbuckle offers a candid look at how one of the world’s leading entertainment and hospitality companies is positioning itself for the future. We discuss MGM’s digital evolution, its expanding global footprint, and how leadership evaluates ambitious and complicated long-term opportunities such as the company’s $12 billion project in Japan.

Hornbuckle also shares his perspective on MGM’s relationship with both IAC and Barry Diller, the reasoning behind stepping back from the broader New York casino process. We discussed his thoughts on Macau, the regulatory considerations across key markets, and how MGM decides which projects are worth chasing—and which ones to walk away from.

Key Topics Covered

• iGaming & the Future of Online Sports Betting  

A discussion of how MGM views the long-term importance of iGaming and online sports wagering, the evolving regulatory landscape, and how digital platforms fit into the company’s broader strategy

• Why MGM Stepped Back from the New York Casino Process

A clear discussion of the strategic, regulatory, and economic factors behind MGM’s decision not to pursue the larger New York casino licensing effort.

• The Role of IAC & Barry Diller

How the partnership originated, what IAC contributes, and how it has influenced MGM’s broader digital and strategic roadmap.

• Macau & Japan: Global Perspective

MGM’s long-term view on Macau’s regulatory environment and the complexities of developing a multi-billion-dollar integrated resort in Osaka.

• Risk, Regulation & Strategic Decision-Making

How MGM weighs regulatory, geopolitical, and market-based risks across regions when deciding where—and how—to invest.

Featured Offer from Boyar Research

Take advantage of Boyar's Research’s flagship annual report featuring 40 catalyst-driven stock ideas for the year ahead.

Every company included has been deeply analyzed in a full-length Boyar Research report — the same research trusted by some of the world’s leading hedge funds, family offices, and institutional investors.

Learn more or pre-order here: boyarresearch.com/2026

Offer expires December 15.

About William J. Hornbuckle

William (Bill) J. Hornbuckle is Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and President of MGM Resorts International (NYSE: MGM), a global entertainment company featuring iconic hotels and casinos, meeting and conference spaces, live and theatrical entertainment experiences and an array of restaurant, nightlife and retail offerings across the globe. MGM Resorts’ portfolio includes some of the most recognizable resort brands in the industry, such as Bellagio, MGM Grand, ARIA, Mandalay Bay and Borgata.

As CEO, Mr. Hornbuckle oversees all aspects of MGM Resorts’ strategy, operations and hospitality and gaming development projects. He leads the company’s global development efforts and its digital gaming strategy. He also successfully steered the company through the COVID-19 pandemic, overcoming numerous challenges including the closure of operations, tightly restricted re-openings and new health and safety measures. Mr. Hornbuckle led the strategy and execution of the company’s sale of MGM Growth Properties to Vici Properties and the acquisition of the remaining share of CityCenter and of The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, legendary investor Bill Nygren discusses how value investing has evolved since the 1980s—and why the traditional valuation metrics many investors still rely on no longer adequately measure a company’s true worth. Nygren explains how intangibles like brand and customer acquisition costs have transformed the investing landscape, why accounting conservatism can obscure opportunity, and what he learned from Warren Buffett’s purchase of Coca-Cola decades ago.

This episode is a masterclass on adapting a classic investment philosophy for the modern age—combining rigorous analysis with intellectual flexibility.

Key Topics Covered

• The evolution of value investing: Why old accounting methods fail to capture the true worth of modern businesses built on brands and technology.
• The Coca-Cola revelation: How Buffett’s investment reshaped Nygren’s definition of value.
• Why financials are misunderstood: Why Nygren sees opportunity in financials despite investor skepticism.
• The hidden risk in the S&P 500: What investors are overlooking about today’s index concentration.
• Airbnb, Merck, and Comcast: How to analyze quality businesses that the market misunderstands.
• AI and investing: Why Nygren believes the biggest winners from AI won’t be chipmakers—but companies that use AI better.
• Position sizing and discipline: How Nygren thinks about portfolio concentration and risk management.

Featured Offer from Boyar Research

Before you dive back into the markets, make sure you take advantage of our limited-time 50% pre-order discount on The Forgotten Forty 2026 — Boyar Research’s flagship annual report featuring 40 catalyst-driven stock ideas for the year ahead.

Every company included has been deeply analyzed in a full-length Boyar Research report — the same research trusted by some of the world’s leading hedge funds, family offices, and institutional investors.

Learn more or pre-order here: boyarresearch.com/2026

Offer expires December 15.

Episode Highlights

• “Conservatism in accounting often comes at the expense of accuracy.”
• “Today’s value investor needs to think harder about intangibles.”
• “Recommending the S&P 500 as a core holding may no longer be prudent—it’s become a concentrated tech bet.”
• “Sometimes what you learn that can’t go in the spreadsheet ends up being the most valuable.”

Featured Companies

Coca-Cola, Comcast, Charter Communications, Airbnb, Merck, Bank of America, Citigroup, Capital One, First Citizens, and NVIDIA.

About Bill Nygren

Bill Nygren is one of the most respected voices in value investing. As Portfolio Manager of the Oakmark Fund and Oakmark Select Fund, he’s built a track record of disciplined, long-term outperformance by focusing on intrinsic value and patient capital allocation.

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...

Episode Summary:

In this episode, Jonathan Boyar welcomes Chris Halpin, Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer, and Chief Financial Officer of IAC—a holding company known for its savvy capital allocation and track record of building internet leaders like Expedia, Match Group, and Ticketmaster. 

Chris brings a unique perspective shaped by senior roles at the NFL and Providence Equity before joining IAC. He and Jonathan explore how IAC is navigating today’s market, why the stock is significantly undervalued, and how the company is positioning key holdings like Dotdash Meredith, Turo, and Care.com for long-term success. 

Whether you're an investor, media strategist, or just someone fascinated by the business of the internet, this episode offers a front-row seat to how IAC is building value in unconventional and often overlooked digital businesses. 

Topics Discussed 

• Chris’s unique journey from private equity to the NFL to IAC 
• The transformation of Dotdash Meredith 
• The business case behind IAC’s OpenAI partnership 
• How IAC is thinking about Turo’s valuation, growth trajectory, and timing around a potential IPO 
• Margin structure and monetization strategy in digital media 
• IAC’s approach to valuation, capital allocation, and market mispricing 
• “Sacred cows” and how IAC avoids them 
• Lessons from working with media rights at the NFL 
• Why Chris thinks IAC is trading at a dramatic discount to fair value 

To learn more visit:

www.boyarvaluegroup.com

https://boyarresearch.substack.com/

or follow us on X @boyarvalue    

Biography:

Christopher Halpin is Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer of IAC. Mr. Halpin leads corporate finance, accounting, M&A, investor relations, and administration functions while also overseeing the day-to-day function and execution of IAC’s businesses.

Prior to his appointment at IAC, Mr. Halpin spent nearly a decade in leadership roles at the National Football League (NFL), most recently serving as Executive Vice President, Chief Strategy & Growth Officer. In this role Mr. Halpin oversaw strategic planning and data and analytics, as well as key growth areas, including managing the NFL’s international business and leading its legalized sports betting strategy. Other past leadership roles at the NFL include Senior Vice President, Consumer Products & Licensing, and Vice President of Media Strategy & Business Development.

Before joining the NFL in June 2013, Mr. Halpin was a Partner and Managing Director at Providence Equity Partners. During his 13 years at Providence, Mr. Halpin worked across the firm's investment activities in the Media & Entertainment, Wireless/Satellite and Business Services sectors, and also opened and served as Co-Head of the firm's Hong Kong office. Mr. Halpin started his career in the Merchant Banking Division of Goldman Sachs & Co.

Mr. Halpin is a graduate of Princeton University with an A.B. in Economics (Phi Beta Kappa, Magna Cum Laude), and is a board member of Turo, the Children's Scholarship Fund, the Ladies Profes

The Boyar Value Group: Uncovering Investment Opportunities Since 1975

Founded in 1975, The Boyar Value Group has spent more than five decades seeking to uncover undervalued opportunities in the stock market.

Through Boyar Research, we provide in-depth, independent research focused on businesses we believe are misunderstood, underfollowed, or trading at a meaningful discount to intrinsic value.

Our investment management business applies that same research-driven discipline to manage portfolios for both institutions and individuals, utilizing our private equity approach to stock market investing.

To learn more about The Boyar Value Group, please visit www.boyarvaluegroup.com.

Never miss another Boyar podcast, market insight, or other valuable content — subscribe to our Substack at boyarresearch.substack.com.

Disclosure

This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice, a recommendation to buy or sell any security, or an offer to provide investment advisory services. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Boyar Research or its affiliates. Boyar Research, its affiliates, employees, and accounts managed by its affiliates may own shares of companies mentioned in this episode. Our vi...