Eric and Eliot welcome Georgetown Professor Emeritus Robert Lieber to discuss his new book, Indispensable Nation. They discuss the nature of the "rules-based" international order, the unique role that U.S. policy plays in sustaining the order, the true disruptive challenges to the order, the nature of political opposition to a robust U.S. foreign policy, political "realism" and its flaws, as well as the increasing challenges for teaching of international relations in the academy.

Shield of the Republic is a Bulwark podcast co-sponsored by the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia. Email us with your feedback at [email protected].

Eliot's “Cut the Baloney Realism” or “Stop Talking About Talking" (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/russia-ukraine-negotations-mark-milley/672198/)

Robert Lieber’s Indispensable Nation (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B5MH82TV/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0)

Robert Lieber’s Retreat And Its Consequences (https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-its-Consequences-American-Foreign/dp/1316506711)

Team America: World Police Hans Blix Scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TEvacFETvM)

Andrey Sushentsov and William Wohlforth’s "The tragedy of US–Russian relations: NATO centrality and the revisionists’ spiral” (https://www.proquest.com/docview/2405756420)

John Mearsheimer’s Revealing Interview With The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/john-mearsheimer-on-putins-ambitions-after-nine-months-of-war)

“Yes, It’s Anti-Semitic:” Eliot’s Review of The Israel Lobby by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2006/04/05/yes-its-anti-semitic/e7de5f13-60d5-4567-9090-8d24c8237801/)

Robert Lieber’s Review of John Mearsheimer’s The Tragedy of Great Power Politics (https://www.psqonline.org/article.cfm?IDArticle=14655)

Eric and David Kramer’s “Now Is Not the Time to Negotiate with Putin” (https://www.thebulwark.com/now-is-not-the-time-to-negotiate-with-putin/)

Eric and David Kramer’s “Don’t Go Wobbly on Ukraine" (https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/dont-go-wobbly-on-ukraine/)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices