TheOutlier Podcast

What makes human banking irreplaceable in an age of AI? Chris Boler, CXO of ORNL Federal Credit Union, shares lessons on member experience, branch strategy, culture, and leading with purpose.

Full Description:

What does it take to build a $4.5 billion credit union rooted in genuine human connection — in an era where technology can do almost everything?

In this episode of the Outlier Podcast, Anurag Mukherjee sits down with Chris Boler, Chief Member Experience Officer at ORNL Federal Credit Union in Knoxville, Tennessee. With nearly two decades in financial services — beginning at HSBC Consumer Finance and finding his professional home in the credit union world after the Great Recession — Chris brings a rare perspective on what it means to lead with both business strategy and human purpose.

ORNL Federal Credit Union started in 1948 with just $50 on deposit. Today it stands at over $4.5 billion in assets, serving the East Tennessee community through a growing branch network, cutting-edge digital tools, and a culture built on the simple but powerful mission: Together We Thrive.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL HEAR:

→ How Chris went from offering 24% personal loans at HSBC to falling in love with the mission-driven credit union model

→ Why ORNL's branches are busier than ever — and why the credit union keeps investing in brick and mortar even as digital banking grows

→ The Jamie Dimon quote that Chris thinks about constantly: people like to live close to their money

→ How ORNL uses Net Promoter Score and real member comments to drive strategy and shape the member experience

→ The massive branch expansion underway across East Tennessee — remodels, ground-ups, and more coming

→ What Chris learned at Disney Institute that changed how he thinks about frontline service culture

→ The one leadership insight that stuck: it is okay to be off task as long as you are on purpose

→ What legacy truly means — and why growing the people around you matters more than any metric

WHO SHOULD LISTEN:

This episode is for credit union professionals, community banking leaders, financial services executives, and anyone passionate about building cultures where people and purpose come first. Whether you are a CEO, a branch manager, a teller, or someone just starting out in financial services — there is something in this conversation for you.

ABOUT ORNL FEDERAL CREDIT UNION:

Founded in 1948 and headquartered in Knoxville, Tennessee, ORNL Federal Credit Union has grown from $50 in deposits to over $4.5 billion in assets. ORNL serves the East Tennessee community with a strong branch network, digital banking solutions, and an unwavering commitment to member financial wellness.

ABOUT THE OUTLIER PODCAST:

The Outlier Podcast celebrates leaders in the credit union and financial services ecosystem who break the mold, challenge convention, and make a real difference — one member at a time. Every guest is someone who does not just follow the path but helps build a better one.

Hosted by Anurag Mukherjee.

CONNECT & FOLLOW:

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone in your network who leads with purpose. Your support helps us bring more conversations like this one to the credit union community.

KEYWORDS: Credit Union Leadership, Member Experience, Community Banking, Human Banking, Credit Union Culture, Branch Banking Strategy, Financial Wellness, Banking Innovation, Credit Union Podcast, ORNL Federal Credit Union, Net Promoter Score, Disney Institute, Together We Thrive, East Tennessee Banking, Chief Experience Officer

The Outlier Podcast — For leaders who make the world a little better, one member at a time.

What does it actually take to modernize a $4.1 billion credit union without breaking everything in the process?

In this episode of the Outlier Podcast, host Anurag Mukherjee sits down with Sean VanHandel, Chief Information Officer of CoVantage Credit Union based in Antigo, Wisconsin. Sean brings nearly three decades of technology experience spanning healthcare, manufacturing, and financial services — and he doesn't hold back.

From wrapping a 40-year-old legacy core with a modern API strategy, to deploying AI agents, to building a real-time Member 360 — Sean walks us through how CoVantage is quietly building one of the most forward-thinking technology stacks in the credit union space.

But what really stands out? His refreshingly honest take on data governance. Before you let AI anywhere near your data, you better make sure it's clean, classified, and governed. As Sean puts it — bad data in, bad data out.

In This Episode You'll Hear:

🔹 Why CoVantage chose to "wrap the core" instead of replacing it🔹 How they built a data warehouse and API strategy from the ground up🔹 What a real Member 360 looks like — and why most credit unions aren't there yet🔹 Sean's take on AI agents, Foundry, and where AI actually creates efficiency🔹 Why data governance is everyone's responsibility — not just IT's🔹 How CoVantage plans to open 75-90% of accounts digitally within two years🔹 What stable coins and the Genius Act mean for credit unions right now🔹 The leadership philosophy behind balancing innovation and operational discipline

Who This Episode Is For:This conversation is for credit union executives, fintech leaders, CIOs, CTOs, data practitioners, and anyone navigating digital transformation inside a traditional financial institution. Whether you're just starting your AI journey or deep in core modernization, Sean's insights are grounded, practical, and immediately actionable.

About Sean VanHandel:Sean VanHandel is the Chief Information Officer at CoVantage Credit Union, a $4.1 billion member-owned financial institution in Antigo, Wisconsin. With nearly three decades in technology — including infrastructure, information security, and enterprise IT leadership across healthcare and manufacturing — Sean has been leading technology strategy at CoVantage for over six years.

About CoVantage Credit Union:CoVantage Credit Union is a member-owned financial institution serving communities across northern Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula with over $4.1 billion in assets.

About the Outlier Podcast:The Outlier Podcast features candid, unfiltered conversations with technology and business leaders across the credit union and financial services industry. No buzzwords. No fluff. Just real talk about what it takes to lead in a rapidly changing world.

Follow the Outlier Podcast on Spotify to never miss an episode.New episodes drop weekly.

Keywords:Sean VanHandel, CoVantage Credit Union, credit union technology, CIO podcast, AI in banking, data governance, core modernization, digital transformation, member experience, fintech, credit union leadership, API strategy, artificial intelligence, community banking, Outlier Podcast

What does it actually take to modernize a bank — and why are the best-performing institutions the ones moving fastest? Jody Bhagat, President of North America at Engine by Starling, joins The Outlier Podcast to answer that and much more.

About This EpisodeThe banking industry is at a genuine tipping point. Neobanks like Chime are capturing over 40% of new checking account openings nationally — outpacing JPMorgan Chase despite having zero physical branches. Super-regional and national banks are encroaching on tier two and tier three markets. Legacy core systems are consuming up to 80% of IT budgets while providing zero competitive differentiation. And a transformative wave of banking M&A is approaching that will permanently separate leaders from laggards.

In this episode, host Anurag Mukherjee and guest Jody Bhagat go deep on what banks must do — strategically, technologically, and operationally — to come out ahead.

About Jody BhagatJody Bhagat is President of North America at Engine by Starling. He is a former McKinsey & Company Partner, spent 7+ years as Global Banking Head at Personetics, and held senior operating roles at Citizens Bank (where he led a 1,000-person digital and call center division), Wells Fargo, and US Bank. He brings a rare combination of operator, strategist, and fintech leader experience to every conversation.

What You Will Learn— The real difference between a core upgrade and a bank modernization program, and why it determines how you scope, fund, and lead the initiative— Why Chime captured ~13% of new US checking account openings in Q3 versus Chase at ~9%, and what that signals for the industry— How Engine by Starling has deployed full technology stacks — core, digital front end, CRM, AML, FinCrimes, and workflows — in under 12 months— Why Starling Bank operates at approximately $70 OPEX per customer versus ~$400 for a typical US regional bank, and how much of that gap is capturable— How a bank with 500,000 customers saving $50 per customer unlocks $25 million to reinvest into growth and differentiation— Why Tangerine Bank — a 2.2-million-customer subsidiary of Scotiabank and 14-time JD Power award winner — selected Engine for a landmark 10-year modernization partnership— What "hollowing out the core" means in practice and why it works as a phased modernization strategy— Why AI readiness in banking is not about use cases — it is about having a unified data model and a modern platform that lets you deploy and scale models rapidly

Key Data Points— Chime: ~13% of new US checking accounts in Q3— Neobanks: 40%+ of all new checking account openings nationally— Legacy core maintenance: up to 80% of bank IT budgets— Banks citing core transformation as top priority: 67%+ (McKinsey)— Starling Bank OPEX per customer: ~$70— US regional bank OPEX per customer: ~$400— Engine full-stack deployments: completed inside 12 months— Tangerine Bank customers: 2.2 million

Who Should ListenThis episode is essential for bank executives, chief digital officers, CIOs, heads of retail banking, compliance leaders, fintech founders, and anyone working inside or alongside financial institutions navigating transformation.

ConnectEngine by Starling: enginebystarling.comStarling Bank: starlingbank.comTangerine Bank: tangerine.ca

The Outlier Podcast covers banking, fintech, data, and transformation — featuring the leaders shaping the future of financial services.

Can a credit union really compete with Chase and Chime? Sunward Federal Credit Union's EVP Alex De La Cruz says yes — and he's got the numbers to prove it.

Alex brings nearly two decades of financial services experience across Bank of America, First Tech Federal Credit Union, TDECU, and Teachers Federal Credit Union before joining Sunward in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Today he leads retail, lending, digital, marketing, and strategy — one of the broadest executive roles in the credit union industry.

In this episode, Alex gets brutally honest about what it takes to win in community banking in 2026. He breaks down Sunward's Vision 2035 strategy, explains why member experience means nothing without data, and shares how a not-for-profit cooperative is quietly becoming the dominant financial institution in the American Southwest — from New Mexico to Colorado and beyond.

If you work in credit unions, community banking, or financial services — this one is required listening.

Highlights:

• From Bank of America skeptic to credit union champion
• Vision 2035 and top-quartile growth in the Southwest
• Full-stream housing strategy: dirt to doorstep
• Digital vs. branch: what actually drives acquisition in 2026
• Competing with JPMorgan Chase without a billion-dollar budget
• Expanding into Colorado and the Four Corners region

The Outlier Podcast — Honest conversations with leaders redefining financial services.

John Fede, CIO of Hudson Valley Credit Union, has spent over 30 years in technology across government, publishing, consulting, and financial services. In this conversation, he gets honest about the unglamorous work that has to happen before innovation is even possible — fixing data infrastructure, building AI governance, scaling automation, and maturing cybersecurity — and why skipping those steps is exactly how credit unions fall behind.

He also shares two bold predictions: AI as a force multiplier that lets smaller institutions compete with the biggest banks, and stablecoins as a genuine threat to ACH as we know it.

Plus, the leadership philosophy that drives everything — be comfortable being uncomfortable, make your people marketable, and never fall in love with the technology itself.

A sharp, grounded conversation for anyone building the future of community finance.

What does intentional leadership look like at GAC 2025 — and what does it mean to redefine membership growth in the credit union industry?In this live episode of The Outlier Podcast, recorded at GAC in Washington D.C., Anurag Mukherjee sits down with Brian Waldron, CEO of Dort Financial Credit Union, for a candid conversation on employee engagement, strategic growth, and why credit unions need to stop trying to compete with Chime on every front.What you'll learn in this episode:Why Brian's #1 priority is employee engagement — and how Dort Financial achieved industry-leading scores without pizza days or jean FridaysThe story behind Dort Financial's Florida expansion, their naming rights partnership with Florida Atlantic University, and how they're bringing financial education to student athletesHow Brian thinks about technology — not as a replacement for people, but as a tool to free employees for more meaningful workWhy Brian believes credit unions need to redefine what membership growth actually means in the age of Chime, Revolut, and neobanksHow Dort Financial grew low-income membership from 0% to 8% in the West Palm Beach market — and why that number matters more than it soundsThe case for credit union marketing that's bold, unapologetic, and built for the long gameKey themes: Credit union leadership | Membership growth strategy | Employee engagement | Community banking | Fintech competition | Financial inclusion | GAC 2026 | Credit union marketing

What does a history major who taught himself to code have to teach CIOs about innovation? Quite a lot, it turns out.In this episode of The Outlier Podcast, Anurag Mukherjee sits down with Jonathan Cilley, CIO of Mid Hudson Valley Federal Credit Union, for a wide-ranging conversation on technology leadership, calculated risk-taking, and what the next five years could look like for credit union tech.Jonathan traces his career from C-sharp developer at a Maryland credit union — a job he took because it paid more and had a shorter commute — to managing enterprise-scale technology operations at Visions Federal Credit Union, and ultimately to his current CIO role in the Hudson Valley. His secret? A disciplined framework for taking calculated risks, and a developer's belief that if you can dream it, it can be built.

What does it take to grow a credit union without indirect lending — and still win? In this live episode recorded at the 2026 Government Affairs Conference (GAC) in Washington D.C., Anurag Mukherjee sits down with two senior executives from Indiana Members Credit Union (IMCU) to break down the strategies driving one of Indiana's most respected credit unions forward.In this episode, you'll learn:Why IMCU has deliberately avoided indirect lending and how they're growing auto loans through direct member relationships insteadHow IMCU balances new member acquisition with deepening existing member relationshipsIMCU's approach to serving niche markets — including refugee communities and small business lendingWhat 40+ credit union and bank acquisitions have taught them about M&A culture integrationWhy IMCU converted from a SEG-based to a community charter — and what that unlockedHow IMCU is redefining branch strategy in a digital-first era, including extended-hour ITMs staffed by actual employeesKey topics covered:Credit union growth strategy | Community banking | Indirect vs. direct lending | Member acquisition | Credit union M&A | Community charter | Small business lending | Branch transformation | Digital banking | Human touch in financial servicesAbout Indiana Members Credit Union (IMCU):IMCU is a community-based credit union headquartered in Indiana with a decades-long track record of organic and acquisitive growth. With over 40 completed mergers and a strong emphasis on niche market relationships — from small businesses to refugee communities — IMCU represents a model for mission-driven financial institutions.About The Outlier Podcast:The Outlier Podcast features unconventional leaders who are redefining their industries. Recognized by Money 20/20 as a leading fintech podcast, each episode delivers unfiltered strategy, leadership, and innovation from the people building the future of financial services.🎙️ 📍 Recorded live at GAC 2026, Washington D.C.Chapters:00:00 — Welcome & GAC 2026 intro00:47 — How GAC has evolved over 10+ years01:42 — IMCU's 3-year strategic bets: direct lending, niches, small business03:42 — Why IMCU avoids indirect lending05:35 — Balancing member acquisition vs. deepening existing relationships07:51 — Auto loans as a traffic driver into deeper membership09:27 — IMCU's M&A philosophy: 40+ acquisitions and counting10:58 — Community charter vs. SEG-based growth11:27 — Human touch in the age of digital banking and AI12:52 — Branch transformation: ITMs, extended hours, and employee-staffed service#CreditUnion #CommunityBanking #IMCU #GAC2026 #OutlierPodcast #CreditUnionStrategy #FinancialServices #Fintech #CreditUnionMarketing

In this live episode of The Outlier Podcast recorded at GAC 2026 in Washington D.C., host Anurag Mukherjee sits down with Cathy Graham and Jeremy Nelson from Desert Financial Credit Union — one of the most forward-thinking credit unions in the country — for a candid conversation on growth, relevance, AI, and what credit unions must get right in the next 24 months.What is Desert Financial Credit Union's growth strategy?Desert Financial is focused on doubling membership over the next 10 years — not for growth's sake, but through the lens of empowering financial well-being. Their approach combines organic acquisition, early member activation, relationship deepening, and a community-first giving philosophy summarized in three words every employee knows: Give. Grow. Guide.How are credit unions using AI to drive marketing results?Desert Financial's data science team has built over 300 member personas using AI agents to test how messaging and creative campaigns resonate before launch — dramatically improving decision-making speed and campaign effectiveness.What is agentic commerce and why does it matter for credit unions?Consumers are increasingly using AI agents to shop, book, and make financial decisions on their behalf. Desert Financial is already building strategies to ensure they are visible and relevant to AI agents — not just human members. This is one of the most forward-thinking moves in credit union marketing today.What must credit unions get right in the next 24 months?According to Cornerstone Advisors research, 69% of credit unions list membership growth as their top priority. But Cathy and Jeremy argue the real imperative is storytelling and relevance — breaking through the noise with a compelling, modern narrative about the credit union difference before fintechs like Revolut and neobanks capture the next generation of members.What external factors are shaping credit union strategy right now?From stablecoin developments to open banking, macroeconomic pressures, and AI disruption — leaders at GAC 2026 are navigating unprecedented complexity. The answer: stay anchored to a clear strategy while staying informed enough to adapt.Entities Referenced: Desert Financial Credit Union | GAC 2026 | Government Affairs Conference | CUNA | Cornerstone Advisors | Ron Shevlin | Revolut | Brené Brown | Agentic Commerce | Credit Union Membership Growth | AI in Financial Services | Generative AI Marketing | Community Banking StrategyEpisode Type: Live Podcast | GAC 2026 Washington D.C.Show: The Outlier Podcast — leaders who redefine their spaces | Recognized by Money 20/20Subscribe for weekly conversations with the executives reshaping community finance.#CreditUnions #GAC2026 #DesertFinancial #AgenticCommerce #AIinBanking #CreditUnionGrowth #OutlierPodcast #CommunityBanking #Fintech #FinancialWellbeing #MemberGrowth #GiveGrowGuide

In this episode, Anurag sits down with Cydni Tetro, CIO of Swire Coca-Cola and a legendary "technology mogul" of the CPG and retail space. They explore Cydni’s "Blue Sky" philosophy of innovation, the rapid evolution of AI in manufacturing and consumer experience, and her mission to fix the "broken rung" for women in STEM.Key Takeaways & Timestamps1. The "Blue Sky" Innovation FrameworkConcept: Innovation starts by asking "what is possible if there are no constraints?" before applying budget or technical limits.The Goal: Move beyond "innovator’s dilemma" by being willing to disrupt your own successful business models.2. AI as a Growth CatalystWork Transformation: AI isn't just for digital products; it's a tool for "work transformation," making strategic leaders 100x faster by identifying root causes and simulating levers for growth.Manufacturing & Logistics: Cydni highlights using AI for predictive maintenance on production lines and optimizing "pallet stacking" for retail delivery.3. The Human-AI Creative BlendThe Gap: While AI excels at operational efficiency and forecasting, it still struggles to predict "breakthrough" consumer trends (the "TikTok shop" phenomena).Human Role: First-principles thinking and "ingenious" creativity remain the domain of human leaders.4. Fixing the "Broken Rung" for Women in TechThe Challenge: It’s not just an entry problem; it’s a promotion problem. Only 5% of tech executives are women because the "ladder is broken" at the mid-to-senior transition.The Solution: Flexibility shouldn't mean "working less"—it means accountability to outcomes while allowing life integration.Rapid Fire HighlightsInnovation in two words: "Problem solving" or "Blue sky thinking."Bullish Trend: The complete transformation of the software development ecosystem (coding 1,000 lines in minutes via AI).Proudest Achievement: Building the Women Tech Council, which has impacted the lives of over 40,000 women.Key Facts & Entities Referenced in This Episode:Swire Coca-Cola (CPG, CIO, digital transformation)The Walt Disney Company (Blue Sky Group, innovation framework)Women Tech Council (nonprofit, women in technology, founded by Cyndi Tetro)SheTech (nonprofit, girls in STEM, founded by Cyndi Tetro)Microsoft (AI in manufacturing, partnership)SiteMachine (AI manufacturing partner)EY Entrepreneur of the Year (award recipient: Cyndi Tetro)Money 20/20 (recognition: The Outlier Podcast)Walmart (retail AI use case referenced)TikTok Shop (consumer trend reference)**Chapters:**00:00 Introduction: Who is Cyndi Tetro?01:40 Blue Sky Thinking: The Disney Innovation Framework05:30 AI as a Business Co-Pilot: Speed, Decisioning & Scale09:00 AI in CPG: Manufacturing, Logistics, Shelf Intelligence & Consumer Experience13:00 How to Build and Exit Scalable Technology Companies15:30 The Broken Rung: Why Women Are Still Underrepresented in Senior Tech Leadership18:20 Rapid Fire: Innovation, Top Tech Trend & Proudest Achievement#CydniTetro #SwireCocaCola #WomenTechCouncil #SheTech #AIinCPG #DigitalTransformation #WomenInTech #WomenInSTEM #Innovation #BlueSkyThinking #ArtificialIntelligence #CPG #OutlierPodcast #WomenLeadership #TechPodcast #Entrepreneurship #AIStrategy #FintechPodcast #ScalingBusinesses #EYEntrepreneur