After five people perished on a controversial submersible dive to the wreckage of the Titanic in June, we got to thinking about what genuine undersea exploration looks like. In this episode, we speak with Tony Perrottet, who profiled the late OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush for Smithsonian magazine in 2019, about our ancient fascination with exploring hostile environments. Then we’re joined by Susan Casey, who has written four best-selling books about the ocean and its creatures, the newest of which is The Underworld: Journeys to the Depths of the Ocean. Susan tells us why understanding the ocean is key to humanity’s survival, and how, while serious research and shipwreck tourism may have some overlap, they remain two very different things.

Read Tony Perrottet’s June 2019 Smithsonian profile of Stockton Rush. Learn more about Tony and his work at his site.

Read an excerpt from Susan Casey’s new book, The Underworld: Journeys to the Depths of the Ocean. Learn more about Susan and her work at her site.

There’s More to That is a production of Smithsonian magazine and PRX Productions.

From the magazine, our team is Chris Klimek, Debra Rosenberg and Brian Wolly.

From PRX, our team is Jessica Miller, Adriana Rosas Rivera, Genevieve Sponsler, Terence Bernardo, and Edwin Ochoa. The Executive Producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzales.

Episode artwork by Emily Lankiewicz (contains elements by Madelgarius, via Wikimedia Commons under CC BY-SA 4.0)

Music by APM Music.

What happens when one of the nation's largest rivers dries up? Photojournalist Pete McBride tells us about the consequences of a prolonged drought in the Colorado River, which provides drinking water and electricity to millions of Americans, and shares his experience walking the river from end to end. What can we learn from the landscape revealed by the historically low water levels, and will they become the new normal?

Read “The Breathtaking Glen Canyon Reveals Its Secrets,” photographs & text by Pete McBride, Smithsonian, October 2022. Learn more about Pete and his work at his site.

There’s More to That is a production of Smithsonian magazine and PRX Productions.

From the magazine, our team is Chris Klimek, Debra Rosenberg and Brian Wolly.

From PRX, our team is Jessica Miller, Adriana Rosas Rivera, Genevieve Sponsler, Terence Bernardo, and Edwin Ochoa. The Executive Producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzales.

Episode artwork by Emily Lankiewicz.

Music by APM Music.

Christopher Nolan's epic new film "Oppenheimer" is no mere biopic… nor is it the first attempt to capture the father of the atomic bomb in fiction. We look at prior dramatizations of this very complicated man—including one wherein J. Robert Oppenheimer played himself!—and examine why they worked or didn't.

In the episode:

Physicist-turned-photographer Minesh Bacrania shares his experience photographing inside the top-secret labs at Los Alamos National Laboratory, where J. Robert Oppenheimer and other scientists created the first nuclear weapon. Next, with Christopher Nolan’s film Oppenheimer exceeding commercial expectations, Smithsonian magazine writer Andy Kifer discusses the complexities of Oppenheimer's genius and how prior attempts to depict him in film and television and on stage have fared.

Read Andy Kifer’s “The Real Story Behind Christopher Nolan’s Oppenheimer” here.

See Minesh Bacrania’s photographs of Los Alamos and read Smithsonian senior editor Jennie Rothenberg Gritz’s text here or in the July/August 2023 issue of Smithsonian.

There’s More to That is a production of Smithsonian magazine and PRX Productions.

From the magazine, our team is Chris Klimek, Debra Rosenberg and Brian Wolly.

From PRX, our team is Jessica Miller, Genevieve Sponsler, Adriana Rozas Rivera, Terence Bernardo, and Edwin Ochoa. The Executive Producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzales.

Episode artwork by Emily Lankiewicz.

Music by APM Music.

He is (K)enough… or is he? With filmmaker Greta Gerwig's Barbie breaking box-office records—and devoting much of its story to Ken's existential crisis—we wondered if there's any more to Barbie's perennial plus-one. Journalist and lifelong Barbie fan Emily Tamkin talks us through Ken’s development, or lack thereof, over the decades.

Read Emily’s “A Cultural History of Barbie,” and Chris’s brief Ken history “Not Your Average Beau,” here or in the June 2023 issue of Smithsonian. Emily is the author of The Influence of Soros: Politics, Power, and the Struggle for an Open Society and Bad Jews: A History of American Jewish Politics and Identities. Learn more about Emily and her work here, or subscribe to her Substack newsletter.

There’s More to That is a production of Smithsonian magazine and PRX Productions.

From the magazine, our team is Chris Klimek, Debra Rosenberg and Brian Wolly.

From PRX, our team is Jessica Miller, Genevieve Sponsler, Adriana Rozas Rivera, Terence Bernardo, and Edwin Ochoa. The Executive Producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzales.

Episode artwork by Emily Lankiewicz.

Music by APM Music.

Smithsonian magazine covers history, science and culture in the way only it can — through a lens on the world that is insightful and grounded in richly reported stories. On There's More to That, meet the magazine's journalists and hear how they discover the forces behind the biggest issues of our time.