Think Outside the Boss

How to fix company culture starts with one hard truth: the culture is you. Leaders set the tone for everything their team does, and when a business grows faster than its leader, the culture can quietly slip away. If you have ever asked yourself whether your team actually likes you, respects you, or even wants you as their leader, you are not alone. Good people walking out the door is rarely just a people problem. It is a leadership and accountability problem, and it gets harder to fix the longer you wait.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, EOS Implementer, and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Mike Vergona, an EOS Implementer and the son of an electrician who grew a Florida solar company from $0 to over $35 million with no outside investors. At its height, the company was one of the top 15 solar companies in Florida by installation volume. Then the culture got away from him. Mike opens up about the walkouts he is not proud of, the burnout that followed his exit, and how the book Traction introduced him to the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS). You will hear why he says to make fast decisions on people, why happy employees come before happy customers, and how the EOS vision component helps leaders answer the question most never stop to ask: where do you want to be in 10 years? Your team is already following your lead. Make sure it is a culture worth following.

• How to fix company culture when it starts slipping, and why Mike Vergona says the culture is you, shaped by what you do in public and what you believe about yourself in private.
• Why the people who got your company to $5 million are probably not the same people who will get you to $15 million, and how your leadership has to grow with the business.
• The warning signs that company culture is getting away from a fast-growing CEO, from a series of employee walkouts to a faction that outlasted the leader who started it.
• Why you should make fast decisions on people: give the warning, then let go of anyone unwilling to be accountable before they drag down the rest of the organization.
• Why happy employees come before happy customers, and what Katie Armentrout learned when a frontline employee told her why customer service training was not working.
• How the book Traction and the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) gave Mike a name for every gap he felt as a CEO, including right people in the right seats and clear accountability.
• What the EOS vision component is, and how one question, where do you want to be in 10 years, helps business owners, nonprofits, and churches turn the vision in their head into a plan.

We talk about:

00:00 Does your team even want you as their leader

01:39 When Mike Vergona first realized he was a leader

03:22 Friend or coach? What Herb Brooks taught him

06:27 From electrician's son to solar company founder

11:38 Why your leadership has to grow with your company

13:35 How company culture gets away from a fast-growing CEO

18:52 How to fix company culture before it is too late

21:47 Why leaders need to make fast decisions on people

23:25 Why happy employees come before happy customers

26:39 Burnout after selling the company

29:43 How Traction and EOS changed everything for Mike

33:04 What is your 10-year vision for your business

Want to build a culture your team actually wants to be part of? Get Katie's weekly leadership newsletter at https://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter-landing-pageipsahnqm.

Resources:

• Traction by Gino Wickman, the book that introduced Mike to EOS
• 10X Is Easier Than 2X by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy, Mike's most reread book
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni, the book that changed how Katie saw teams
• The Kolbe A Index, Mike's favorite personality assessment

Connect with Mike

• Website: https://mikevergona.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrvergona/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikevergona/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mvergona

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#CompanyCulture #WorkplaceCulture #Leadership #LeadershipPodcast #EOS #EntrepreneurialOperatingSystem #Traction #EOSImplementer #RightPeopleRightSeats #Accountability #EmployeeEngagement #Entrepreneur #SmallBusinessOwner #ScalingABusiness #FounderBurnout #BusinessOwner #CEOLife #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #Peoplefluence

Breast cancer screening is the single biggest reason most of Dr. Kathleen Raque's patients walk into her office with an excellent prognosis. Her advice comes in three words: screening, screening, screening. If you are approaching 40, have been told you have dense breasts, or watched your mom or sister go through breast cancer, and you keep putting off your mammogram because you are afraid of the phone call, this is the conversation to hear before you book it.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, EOS Implementer and host of Think Outside the Boss, closes her Leading Through Cancer series with her own surgeon, Dr. Kathleen Raque, a breast surgical oncologist at TriHealth's Mary Jo Cropper Family Center for Breast Care in Cincinnati and a Cincinnati Top Doctor award recipient. You will hear why she starts average-risk women on annual 3D mammograms at age 40, where breast MRI fits in, and how Oncotype testing now tailors treatment to the biology of each tumor. Dr. Raque also shares how she leads her OR team, from the pre-surgery brief to working through conflict, and why patients trust honesty most when the news is hard. Her message for every woman: you are not alone, and you can't keep a good woman down.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why breast cancer screening is the number one reason most of Dr. Kathleen Raque's patients have an excellent prognosis, and why finding cancer early and small means more treatment options.
• When an average-risk woman should start annual screening mammograms, why Dr. Raque prefers 3D mammography, and how breast MRI is now used alongside a mammogram, not instead of one.
• Why the belief that most breast cancers are genetic is a common misconception, and how a simple genetic blood test can shape a patient's surgery and treatment plan.
• How Oncotype testing, which reads a tumor's DNA, helps decide who truly needs chemotherapy, instead of putting every woman with breast cancer into the same treatment box.
• How a breast surgical oncologist leads an operating room team, from the pre-surgery brief to making sure no one in the room is too intimidated by the surgeon to speak up.
• Why Dr. Raque believes honesty is how you keep a patient's trust, even when she has to call and say the margin came back positive and more surgery is needed.
• Why the advice from her childhood riding trainer, that the only thing in life without ups and downs is mediocrity, reframed two big setbacks: her first medical school application and her residency match.

We talk about:

00:00 How a breast surgeon handles difficult conversations

01:29 When Dr. Kathleen Raque first realized she was a leader

06:23 Why she chose breast surgical oncology

10:26 How her TriHealth team builds a culture of learning

11:54 How do doctors cope when they lose a patient

13:14 Why breast cancer screening drives a positive prognosis

14:15 What is the average woman's breast cancer risk

17:33 How breast cancer treatment has changed over time

22:01 How she handles conflict on her surgical team

26:49 Delivering hard news without losing patient trust

30:03 How a cancer surgeon takes care of herself

31:36 What she wants every woman to know right now

That wraps Leading Through Cancer. If this series moved you, schedule your screening mammogram this October and share this episode with one woman you love. Connect with Katie at https://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter-landing-pageipsahnqm.

Resources:

• All books by Freida McFadden https://link.amazon/B0gnsYYqd

Connect with Dr. Raque

• TriHealth provider page: https://www.trihealth.com/provider/Kathleen-M-Raque/774499
• Mary Jo Cropper Family Center for Breast Care: https://www.trihealth.com/hospitals-and-practices/mary-jo-cropper-family-center-for-breast-care/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#BreastCancerScreening #BreastCancerAwarenessMonth #GetYourMammogram #EarlyDetectionSavesLives #3DMammogram #DenseBreasts #BreastSurgeon #SurgicalOncology #WomensHealth #CancerSurvivor #LeadingThroughCancer #HealthcareLeadership #WomenInMedicine #WomenInLeadership #LeadershipPodcast #ExecutiveLeadership #CorporateCulture #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

Breast cancer early detection saved Monique Cheeks' life. She was diagnosed with an aggressive form of triple negative breast cancer last November, caught at stage one because she never let vigilance slip after watching her mother and aunt go through the same disease. Her husband, Dr. Eddie Cheeks, has faced this disease before too, decades earlier, with someone else he loved. If you have ever needed a reason to schedule the mammogram you keep putting off, this is it.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, continues her Leading Through Cancer series with Monique Cheeks, CEO of the Cheeks Agency, and her husband of 35 years, Dr. Eddie Cheeks, a practicing OBGYN who is legally blind and recovering from a stroke. You will hear how Monique turned sixteen rounds of chemotherapy and twenty rounds of radiation into a ring the bell celebration with thirty guests, and how leadership in this marriage has moved in both directions long before her diagnosis. Get your mammogram scheduled, then go find out who is leading you through your next hard season.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why early detection made the difference for Monique, and how family history of breast cancer kept her vigilant about mammograms
• How triple negative breast cancer, one of the most aggressive forms, was caught at stage one before it reached her lymph nodes
• Why Monique refused to skip makeup or outfits for a single chemotherapy or radiation appointment, and how that choice became a mindset strategy
• How Dr. Eddie Cheeks, legally blind and recovering from a stroke, became Monique's co-pilot for every treatment, after she had rehabbed him back to driving in five months
• What Monique's ring the bell celebration looked like, with thirty guests and the biggest ceremony her cancer center had ever seen
• Why Dr. Cheeks believes there may be more prevention breakthroughs ahead for breast cancer, drawing a comparison to the cervical cancer vaccine (his own view, not a medical claim)
• Why Monique's advice, that you cannot want something for someone more than they want it for themselves, applies to leading a spouse, a client, or a team through any hard season

We talk about:

00:00 Why Dr. Eddie Cheeks became Monique's co-pilot through cancer

05:46 Monique's triple negative breast cancer diagnosis

08:00 Why she got dressed up for every chemotherapy appointment

12:09 What facing this disease before taught Dr. Cheeks

17:15 Her diagnosis to surgery timeline in four weeks

21:28 How Monique rehabbed her husband back to driving after his stroke

25:00 Inside her ring the bell celebration with 30 guests

31:33 What breast cancer statistics have changed over the years

33:38 Why cervical cancer gives hope for a future breast cancer vaccine

39:28 What is the best advice Monique has ever received

44:00 Their walk-on and ring the bell songs

Ready to lead through cancer, or any crisis, together? Get your mammogram scheduled, and follow along next week for part three of Leading Through Cancer with Katie's surgeon, Dr. Kathleen Raque. Connect with Katie at https://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter-landing-pageipsahnqm.

Resources:

• Eat Right for Your Blood Type https://link.amazon/B0bEMOMuj

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#ThinkOutsideTheBoss #LeadingThroughCancer #BreastCancerAwareness #EarlyDetectionSavesLives #TripleNegativeBreastCancer #CancerSurvivor #RingTheBell #CaregiverHusband #MarriageAndCancer #BreastCancerAwarenessMonth #WomenInLeadership #Peoplefluence #PodcastForLeaders #CancerJourney #HealthAdvocacy #MammogramMatters #KnowYourBody #StrongerTogether #LeadershipPodcast #HopeAndHealing

Leading through cancer, or any crisis, starts with leading yourself first, and that is the hardest leadership job there is. Katie Armentrout was diagnosed with stage one breast cancer in May 2025, and as of this Breast Cancer Awareness Month she is sharing the year that followed, and the lies she told herself about how a leader is supposed to handle it. If you have ever tried to push through a crisis by pretending nothing changed, this episode will hit close to home.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, opens a three part series called Leading Through Cancer with her own story, a lumpectomy, twenty rounds of radiation, and the three lies she believed along the way, that she could push through it like everything else, that a leader cannot show weakness, and that hiding her suffering protected the people she loved. She leans on Dr. Kristin Neff's research on self-compassion, shares the ninety nine percent five year survival rate tied to early detection, and explains why the same vulnerability she teaches through Working Genius and EOS was the hardest thing to practice on herself. Get your mammogram scheduled, then go lead yourself through whatever crisis is next.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why Katie Armentrout believes leading yourself through crisis is the hardest leadership job there is, and how her own breast cancer diagnosis proved it.
• What Dr. Kristin Neff's research on self-compassion taught her about healing faster by being kinder to herself instead of pushing harder.
• Why the belief that leaders cannot show weakness is the opposite of what she teaches through Working Genius, Five Dysfunctions, and EOS, where vulnerability builds trust.
• Why hiding her diagnosis from her round table coaching clients backfired, and what happened when she finally told them the truth about crashing mid treatment.
• How early detection changed her outcome, including the statistic that catching breast cancer at a localized stage means a 99 percent five year survival rate.
• Why telling her three kids, then ages 13, 11, and 8, before her surgery became one of the clearest examples of leading her family through crisis.
• What her friend group, the Mapledale moms, taught her about receiving help, after thirty people showed up unannounced to mulch her yard.

We talk about:

00:00 Why leading yourself is the hardest leadership job

01:28 Her breast cancer diagnosis and treatment timeline

06:30 Why she compares cancer to a plane crash she survived

08:41 The three lies she believed about handling crisis

10:26 Why one in eight women get breast cancer

13:33 What early detection means for five year survival rates

16:56 What Dr. Kristin Neff's work on self-compassion taught her

21:47 Why she told her coaching clients nothing would change

29:00 What made her stop hiding her diagnosis

36:30 How the Mapledale moms showed up to mulch her yard

39:00 How she told her three kids she had cancer

46:23 What she wants every leader to ask themselves next

Ready to lead yourself through whatever crisis comes next? Get your mammogram scheduled today, and follow along next week for part two of Leading Through Cancer with Dr. Eddie Cheeks and his wife Monique. Connect with Katie at https://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter-landing-pageipsahnqm.

Resources:

• Self-Compassion by Dr. Kristin Neff https://link.amazon/B07tiUOv7

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#LeadingThroughCancer #BreastCancerAwarenessMonth #SelfCompassion #VulnerableLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #EntrepreneurLife #WorkingGenius #EOSModel #MentalHealthAtWork #WomenInLeadership #CancerSurvivor #EarlyDetectionSavesLives #LeadershipPodcast #SmallBusinessOwner #ExecutiveLeadership #CorporateCulture #CommunityOverCompetition #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #Peoplefluence

Serving is a superpower, not a soft skill and not a nice to have you reach for once the real leadership work is done. Detria Austin Everson has spent more than two decades leading through crisis, from healthcare disparities to the 2008 housing collapse, and every time she found the same thing waiting at the center of it: service. If you have a heart for helping people but have only ever treated it as an extracurricular activity, this conversation will change how you see it.

Katie Armentrout, EOS Implementer, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Detria Austin Everson, author of Serving Is a Superpower, to trace a career that runs through the Medical College of Georgia, the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, historic Ebenezer Baptist Church, and the John Lewis Foundation. You will hear how her CLASS program brought culturally and linguistically appropriate care, backed by a 147 language phone line, into a hospital system, how the Home Safe Program helped tens of thousands of struggling homeowners during the mortgage crisis, and why staying behind for three extra weeks after one event taught her that proximity earns trust that a title never will. Stop leading from a distance. Get close enough to see the problem for yourself.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why Detria Austin Everson believes proximity, not title or org chart authority, is what actually earns a leader trust and loyalty that lasts.
• How the CLASS program she built inside a healthcare system used on site interpreters and a 147 language phone line to close cultural and linguistic gaps in patient care.
• What running the Home Safe Program during the 2008 housing crisis taught her, after meeting twenty five to fifty thousand struggling homeowners at nearly two hundred events.
• Why staying behind for three extra weeks after one Home Safe event, instead of moving straight to the next city, became the moment her team's trust in her changed for good.
• How her mother's decades as a career social worker shaped the idea behind Serving Is a Superpower, that everyone can be great because everyone can serve.
• Why she considers service a genuine competitive advantage for retention, culture, and loyalty, not just a value statement posted on a wall.
• What led her to walk away from a pre med track in college, and why she now calls that decision one of the failures she cherishes most.

We talk about:

00:00 Why proximity is Detria's leadership superpower

01:12 When did she first know she was a leader

04:31 Running NACA's national housing crisis response

05:39 Leading the John Lewis Foundation

05:57 Becoming her mother, a career social worker

09:13 Why housing stability drives better health outcomes

11:00 The CLASS program and 147 languages of care

21:00 What makes leaders earn loyalty, not just authority

21:34 Why she stayed behind for three extra weeks

27:28 When service became a competitive advantage

33:40 The lightning round begins

36:57 Where to find Serving Is a Superpower

Ready to lead with more proximity and less distance? Get Serving Is a Superpower and the companion workbook at https://servingisasuperpower.com/, and if you want help building a culture your team actually trusts, connect with Katie at https://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter-landing-pageipsahnqm.

Resources:

• Humility by Andrew Murray https://link.amazon/B0hFYN5iJ

Connect with Detria

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/detriaaustineverson/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/detria.everson/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/detriaaustineverson/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@detriaaustineverson
• Website: www.servingisasuperpower.com

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#ServingIsASuperpower #ServantLeadership #ProximityLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #WorkplaceCulture #TeamTrust #EmployeeRetention #NonprofitLeadership #HealthcareLeadership #HousingCrisis #CommunityLeadership #WomenInLeadership #ExecutiveLeadership #CorporateCulture #SmallBusinessOwner #LeadershipPodcast #CivilRightsLeadership #ServiceLeadership #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

The Millennial Whisperer is the nickname PR veteran Lee Caraher earned the hard way, after six millennial hires quit her firm within eight weeks of each other and she decided the problem had to be her, not them. If you have ever been blindsided by a resignation you never saw coming, or found yourself assuming the worst about an employee who was late, distracted, or quiet in a meeting, this conversation will change how you read your team. Most leaders think they have communicated clearly. Most have not, and the gap between those two realities is where good people quietly walk out the door.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Lee Caraher, founder and CEO of Double Forte and author of Millennials and Management and The Boomerang Principle, to unpack the four cultural forces reshaping how younger employees show up to work. You will hear how Lee's pass along able standard keeps deliverables from arriving half finished, why she borrows the Chief Reminding Officer idea from Patrick Lencioni's The Advantage to explain why leaders have to repeat themselves, and how her communication wheel model separates what actually happened from the assumptions that make leaders furious. Stop guessing why your team missed the memo. Start asking what you never actually said.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why six millennial hires quitting within eight weeks of each other taught Lee Caraher that blaming a generation is easier than examining her own leadership and communication gaps.
• What four generational forces, from helicopter parenting to grade inflation to Oprah Winfrey's message on self-respect, actually shape how younger employees interpret workplace expectations.
• How Lee's communication wheel model uncovers the real reason a leader is angry about someone being late, and why it is almost never about the clock.
• Why Double Forte's pass along able standard for deliverables eliminates the vague expectations that quietly wreck deadlines, client relationships, and team trust.
• What the Chief Reminding Officer concept from Patrick Lencioni's The Advantage means for leaders who assume they already said something clearly once.
• Why ambiguous words like end of day or late cause most workplace conflict, and the exact language Lee uses to replace them.
• How Double Forte's people first culture and industry leading investment in non billable time built an average client retention of 10.4 years.

We talk about:

00:00 The bad day that earned Lee her nickname

01:30 Lee Caraher's forty year path into PR

06:41 Why her mother's illness led her to start Double Forte

09:46 What happened when six millennials quit in eight weeks

12:51 The chihuahua that started an office dog policy

18:00 Why every generation complains about the one after it

19:34 The four cultural forces shaping how millennials work

25:47 What Lee's communication wheel reveals about anger and assumptions

30:00 What pass along able means at Double Forte

35:50 Why leaders have to repeat their message more than once

39:19 What is the Chief Reminding Officer

40:04 Lee's favorite personality assessment and the advice she lives by

Ready to stop guessing why your team missed the memo? Learn Lee's pass along able standard and the Chief Reminding Officer approach in Millennials and Management at https://leecaraher.com/, and if you want help building a team that communicates without the drama, connect with Katie at https://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter-landing-pageipsahnqm.

Resources:

• The Advantage by Patrick Lencioni https://link.amazon/B03ASjRy9
• Traction by Gino Wickman https://link.amazon/B05is1aSk

Connect with Lee:

• Website: https://leecaraher.com/
• Double Forte: https://double-forte.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leecaraher/
• Books: https://leecaraher.com/books/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#MillennialWhisperer #ManagingMillennials #GenerationalLeadership #WorkplaceCommunication #LeadershipDevelopment #PRLeadership #CorporateCulture #EmployeeRetention #TeamCulture #LeadershipPodcast #SmallBusinessOwner #PeopleManagement #ExecutiveLeadership #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #DoubleForte #GenZAtWork #WorkplaceCulture #FounderLife #CommunicationSkills #HighPerformingTeams

Leading a founder-led business means stepping into someone else's vision, culture, and team, and finding a way to move all of it forward without breaking what made it work in the first place. If you have ever taken over a team, a department, or an entire company you did not build, you already know how delicate that balance is. Rhiannon Hoeweler knows it better than most. She became the first ever non-founder CEO of MadTree Brewing in Cincinnati, stepping in while the two original founders stayed on, and has since led the company from one location and 80 employees to four locations and more than 400.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and a Certified Working Genius Facilitator, talks with Rhiannon about what actually breaks when a company grows that fast, why three different service models across MadTree's locations turned into a payroll nightmare, and how MadTree became a B Corp and a 1% for the Planet member along the way, work recently recognized at Climate Week in New York City. Rhiannon also opens up about the workaholism her body keeps forcing her to confront, and the two career accomplishments, Zoo Access for All and MadTree's ReLeaf tree planting program, she is proudest of. If you are leading a team, a company, or a culture you did not build, this conversation will change how you think about trust.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why leading a founder-led business means earning trust from a team, and from the founders themselves, before you have built any of it yourself.
• What actually breaks inside a company when headcount jumps from eighty to over four hundred employees in just five years.
• Why three different service models across MadTree's four locations created hidden payroll and HR headaches nobody saw coming until the company had already scaled.
• How leaning on her two core strengths, relationship building and trust, lets Rhiannon lead well without knowing every detail of the business.
• Why MadTree became a B Corp and a 1% for the Planet member, and what that commitment looks like in daily operations.
• What Rhiannon is doing to break a workaholism pattern her body kept forcing her to confront, including a daily walk and gratitude writing.
• Why Zoo Access for All and MadTree ReLeaf are the two accomplishments Rhiannon is proudest of, and what they say about who gets invited to the table.

We talk about:

00:00 What happens when a company gets the growth it dreamed of

01:00 When Rhiannon first realized she was a leader

03:00 Stepping into a founder-led business she did not build

05:00 What makes MadTree Brewing different in a saturated market

07:00 How MadTree grew from just beer into food and hospitality

09:00 When the founders' vision shifted beyond beer alone

11:00 Building toward zero waste and earning B Corp certification

13:00 What actually broke as MadTree scaled from 80 to 400 employees

15:00 The service model differences that complicated payroll behind the scenes

18:00 Why leaders should lean into their own strengths instead of everything

27:00 The career accomplishments Rhiannon is proudest of

34:00 Lightning round: DISC profile, favorite podcast, best advice, and walk-on song

Resources:

• Acquired Podcast: https://www.acquired.fm/

Connect with Rhiannon:

• Website: https://madtree.com/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MadTree/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/madtreebrewing/
• X: https://x.com/madtreebrewing
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhiannon-hoeweler-4bb29a44/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#FounderLedBusiness #NonFounderCEO #LeadershipDevelopment #CompanyCulture #ScalingABusiness #SmallBusinessOwner #WomenInLeadership #CraftBreweryLife #BCorpBusiness #SustainableBusiness #WorkLifeBalance #BusinessGrowth #TeamCulture #TrustInLeadership #EntrepreneurMindset #ExecutiveLeadership #CincinnatiBusiness #MadTreeBrewing #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

Married entrepreneurs face a kind of pressure no corporate career ever prepares you for: building a company from nothing with the same person you raise kids with, split a mortgage with, and come home to every night.

If you have ever dreamed about starting your own thing, or wondered what happens at home when both spouses walk away from steady paychecks at once, this conversation is for you. Katie Armentrout sits down with her husband, Judson Armentrout, for a rare look at what it is really like to be married co-founders, two people who each left stable corporate careers within two years of each other to build their own businesses from scratch, with three kids, a dog, and a mortgage riding on it.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and a Certified Working Genius Facilitator, and Judson Armentrout, founder of Building Block Solutions and co-founder of Barebones Solutions, talk through what changed when they traded a $1.5 billion Kroger supply chain and a Procter & Gamble career for entrepreneurship, and why Judson's risk tolerance runs higher than most.

You will hear how the Working Genius framework shapes how they lead their teams and their kids, how Judson grew their sons' Cub Scout pack from 36 kids to more than 100, and what extreme ownership looked like the day he nearly got fired at Kroger. If you are weighing whether to bet on yourself, listen before you leap.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why the stress of building a company from scratch with your spouse is completely different than working together in an established family business.
• How Judson learned to lead through influence alone, with zero direct reports, during his first years at a beef processing plant.
• What it actually looks like day to day when two spouses each walk away from corporate paychecks within two years of one another.
• Why Judson's risk tolerance is higher than most people's, and how growing up watching his parents run their own businesses shaped that.
• How the Armentrouts use small family rituals, like a cake pop for every new client, to keep morale up during the hard seasons of entrepreneurship.
• What Judson learned about leadership, infrastructure, and asking for help while growing a Cub Scout pack from 36 kids to more than 100.
• Why Judson took full ownership of a quality failure at Kroger instead of letting his team take the blame, and what that taught him about extreme ownership.

We talk about:

00:00 The real difference between family business stress and startup stress

00:35 Why this episode is for anyone who has ever wanted to start their own company

04:00 When did Judson first realize he was a leader

05:43 Learning to lead through influence with no direct reports at a beef plant

09:00 How Katie and Judson met in their MBA program at UNC Chapel Hill

14:14 Growing up in an entrepreneurial family and where his risk tolerance comes from

20:38 What is it really like to work with your spouse inside a startup

25:09 How the Armentrouts celebrate wins as a family with cake pops

29:04 What they hope their kids take away from a dual entrepreneurship household

35:40 How leading a Cub Scout pack of 100 kids made Judson a better leader

44:00 Judson's favorite personality assessment and why Working Genius fits him

47:12 The failure Judson cherishes most and what it taught him about extreme ownership

Resources:

• Wisdom of the Bullfrog by Admiral William McRaven
• Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink

Connect with Judson:

• Website: https://buildingblock.solutions/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judsonarmentrout/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#MarriedEntrepreneurs #CouplesInBusiness #WorkingWithYourSpouse #CorporateToEntrepreneur #SmallBusinessOwner #FamilyBusiness #WorkingGenius #ExtremeOwnership #LeadershipDevelopment #EntrepreneurLife #BusinessPartners #RiskTolerance #SupplyChainLeadership #ParentingEntrepreneurs #StartupLife #WomenInLeadership #HusbandAndWifeBusiness #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

An upside-down org chart is a leadership model where power flows down to the front line instead of up to the top, and it is exactly what took Joel Bokelman thirteen years to build inside Changing Gears, a Cincinnati nonprofit that treats vehicle ownership as an anti-poverty tool.

If you lead a mission-driven team, you already know the tension: you care about people and about profit, and no one ever taught you how to hold both at once. Servant leadership, distributed accountability, and an upside-down pyramid are not just nonprofit buzzwords here, they are the operating model behind 386 affordable cars sold, 76 trained technicians, and a growing affiliate network reaching new cities.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and a Certified Working Genius Facilitator, sits down with Joel Bokelman, co-founder of Changing Gears, to unpack how a Habitat for Humanity idea for cars turned into a scaling, mission-driven organization built alongside partner CityLink Center. You will hear exactly how Joel and his team used the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS, to fix an accountability gap a DISC assessment exposed, and why he still calls a single passive mistake one of his most important leadership lessons.

If your team needs more trust and less top-down control, this conversation gives you a real, thirteen-year-tested place to start.

• An upside-down org chart puts your front-line team first, with leadership existing to remove barriers and support the people closest to the work, not the other way around.
• Joel Bokelman explains how a Habitat for Humanity idea for houses became Changing Gears, a nonprofit that has sold 386 affordable cars to families working out of poverty.
• A DISC assessment revealed a dangerous accountability gap on Joel's leadership team, and adopting EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, is what finally closed it.
• Being mission-driven does not mean ignoring profit. Learn how Changing Gears funds most of its own programs through vehicle sales rather than relying on donations alone.
• Joel shares why a passive mistake did more long-term damage to his organization than any aggressive one, and what that taught him about decisive leadership.
• Hear how celebrating small wins, like handing a client the title to a paid-off car, keeps a mission-driven team from burning out on its own mission.
• Joel walks through how servant leadership, modeled by his father-in-law, became the upside-down pyramid that now shapes every hire and decision at Changing Gears.

We talk about:

00:00 Why a car is an anti poverty tool

02:16 When Joel first realized he was a leader

04:14 How Marnie's rainy day moment started Changing Gears

07:49 What CityLink Center actually does for clients

11:23 Where Joel learned servant leadership from his father in law

12:37 What an upside down org chart really means

13:38 The DISC assessment that exposed a leadership blind spot

16:08 The vision to expand Changing Gears into new cities

27:45 A day in the life of a Changing Gears client

34:25 Building a culture people do not want to leave

37:35 Lightning round, books, advice, and a walk on song

42:51 How to donate a car or support Changing Gears

Resources:

• CityLink Center: https://www.citylinkcenter.org/
• Myth of a Christian Nation by Greg Boyd https://amzn.to/4glQvbY

Connect with Joel:

• Website: https://changing-gears.org/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-bokelman-b165363a/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changing_gears/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CG.org
• Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/changinggears/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#ServantLeadership #NonprofitLeadership #MissionDrivenLeadership #UpsideDownOrgChart #TeamCulture #LeadershipDevelopment #SmallBusinessLeadership #EOS #EntrepreneurialOperatingSystem #NonprofitManagement #SocialEnterprise #TransportationEquity #CincinnatiNonprofit #WorkingGenius #BusinessOwnerLife #ExecutiveCoaching #FaithDrivenLeadership #ChangingGears #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

Connection before content is the philosophy Chad Littlefield uses to explain why so many meetings, trainings, and offsites fall flat before they even start. If you have ever watched a room cross its arms the second you started talking, connection before content is the reason.

Teams that skip it end up with feedback that never gets delivered, meetings nobody wants to attend, and trust that never actually builds.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Chad Littlefield, M.Ed., co-founder and Chief Experience Officer of We and Me and creator of the We! Connect Cards, to unpack what actually builds trust on a team. Chad shares his professional arms uncrosser approach, walks through the difference between performance-based trust and vulnerability-based trust, and explains why a former surgeon general compared disconnection at work to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Katie adds her own culture of feedback quadrant, mapping what happens when a team has empathy without accountability, or accountability without empathy.

If you lead people, run meetings, or just want your team to actually talk to each other, this conversation hands you language and tools you can use this week.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Connection before content explains why teams disengage the moment a meeting starts with information instead of people, and how leaders can reverse that pattern in under a minute.
• The professional arms uncrosser approach shows you how to open a room, a training, or a hard conversation so people stop defending themselves and start participating.
• Performance-based trust and vulnerability-based trust are the two types of trust every team needs, and Chad Littlefield breaks down what happens when a team only has one.
• Katie Armentrout's culture of feedback quadrant maps four team cultures, from a culture of comfort to a culture of isolation, based on how much empathy and accountability a leader brings.
• We! Connect Cards were built to spark meaningful conversations in under two minutes, and Chad explains the one question that works even with a room full of skeptics.
• What you tolerate is what you endorse is the leadership principle Chad uses to explain why ignoring a struggling team member is never actually a neutral choice.
• Chad Littlefield explains why expertise without empathy reads as rude to a room, and what to do instead before you ever open a slide deck.

We talk about:

00:00 Chad's opening line on why connection matters

00:14 Katie introduces Chad Littlefield and We! Connect Cards

04:01 When did Chad first realize he was a leader

08:21 What made Chad obsessed with human connection

10:54 What is a professional arms uncrosser

12:48 Why connection has to come before content

21:57 Performance-based trust versus vulnerability-based trust explained

24:31 Katie's culture of feedback quadrant breakdown

30:25 Why what you tolerate is what you endorse

35:33 Lightning round

44:13 Where to find Chad and the Connectors Summit

Resources:

• Made to Stick by Chip and Dan Heath: https://amzn.to/4qi1JkT
• The Best Advice So Far by Eric Tyler: https://amzn.to/3TSZY1G
• Hell Yeah or No by Derek Sivers: https://amzn.to/3RQvQ6x

Connect with Chad:

• Website: https://weand.me/
• We! Connect Cards: https://weand.me/store/
• Free connection tools: https://weand.me/free/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chad.littlefield
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadlittlefield/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#ThinkOutsideTheBoss #ChadLittlefield #WeConnectCards #ConnectionBeforeContent #WorkplaceConnection #BuildingTrustAtWork #PsychologicalSafety #LeadershipPodcast #TeamCulture #TrustAtWork #EmployeeEngagement #FacilitationSkills #LeadershipDevelopment #CultureOfFeedback #ProfessionalArmsUncrosser #AskPowerfulQuestions #ConnectorsSummit #KatieArmentrout #ExecutiveLeadership #WorkplaceCulture