Think Outside the Boss

How to scale a business without burning out starts with knowing the difference between grit that builds a company and grit that destroys the person building it. If you are the founder who cannot do anything in moderation, who runs until you almost break, this episode names exactly what that costs and what it takes to catch it before your body forces you to stop.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, talks with Jackie Bondanza, founder of Hounds Town USA, who took the pet care franchise from one location to 103 across the country and now works with founders on the systems that let them step back. Jackie explains why she implemented EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, in 2021, what it took to move from the visionary seat to the integrator seat and back again, and the moment her acupuncturist told her point blank that her body was going to shut down if she did not stop. She also shares the advice from a former boss that changed how she owns her mistakes, and the failure during COVID that taught her more than any MBA could.

If you have built something you cannot imagine walking away from, this conversation will show you how to keep building it without losing yourself.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why Jackie Bondanza says she cannot do anything in moderation, and how that same intensity that built Hounds Town USA almost broke her.
• What it actually took to grow a doggie daycare franchise from one location to 103 across the country in thirteen years, without a business background.
• How implementing EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, in 2021 changed the way Hounds Town runs, and why it took hiring an outside implementer to make it stick.
• The moment Jackie's acupuncturist told her point blank that her body was going to shut down if she did not stop, and what she did next.
• Why moving from the visionary seat to the integrator seat and back again taught Jackie more about herself than any MBA program could.
• The advice from a former boss about owning your mistakes that Jackie still uses to lead through hard conversations today.
• Why Jackie now does hands-on consulting and fractional integrator work for founders trying to scale from 10 or 20 units toward 100.

We talk about:

00:00 Meet Jackie Bondanza and her path from book editing to Hounds Town

01:17 When did Jackie first realize she was a leader

03:07 What her young employees needed that no training manual could teach

09:00 The train ride where she first envisioned 100 stores

12:26 The hardest phase of growth from 12 stores to 18 during COVID

15:12 Why she brought in EOS and what it took to implement it

17:23 Moving from integrator to visionary and what that shift taught her

29:40 The consulting work she started after stepping into the owner's box

30:09 Does an old dog really change, and what that taught her about leadership

36:14 What advice she gives founders chasing their own 100 unit milestone

38:44 Lightning round: DiSC, a favorite book, and best advice ever given

40:00 A failure she cherishes and the walk on song that hypes her up

Resources:

• A Tree Grows in Brooklyn https://amzn.to/4bqgKew

Connect with Jackie:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-bondanza-36ba783/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/houndstownusa/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@houndstownusa424
• Website: https://linktr.ee/houndstown

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#franchiseowner #foundermindset #founderburnout #entrepreneurialoperatingsystem #EOStraction #visionaryintegrator #scalingabusiness #franchisegrowth #smallbusinessowner #petcarefranchise #leadershipdevelopment #selfawareness #businessconsulting #womeninbusiness #executivecoaching #businessowners #thinkoutsidetheboss

Difficult conversations as a leader are the ones nobody else can have for you. You can delegate almost everything, the budget, the calendar, even the hiring, but not the moment you have to tell someone their work is not working. If you find yourself softening bad news, avoiding accountability talks, or feeling guilty for disappointing your own team, you are not alone, and there is a real reason it feels this hard. Left unaddressed, that avoidance quietly costs teams trust, slows decisions, and turns small problems into resignations.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Haider Ala Hamoudi, dean of the University of Cincinnati's Donald P. Klekamp College of Law and the first Muslim dean of a law school in the United States. Haider shares what the DISC assessment revealed about his own people pleasing pattern, why he still returns to Brene Brown's idea of daring greatly, and the specific line he uses instead of softening bad news to a direct report. He also opens up about growing his law school's applications by 50 percent, reaching some of the top bar passage rates in Ohio, and landing the largest naming gift in the school's history, all without losing his team's trust.

If you lead people and hate disappointing them, this conversation will change how you think about that discomfort.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why the willingness to disappoint people, not avoiding conflict altogether, is the leadership skill Haider Ala Hamoudi says took him the longest to build.
• How the DISC personality assessment revealed a people pleasing pattern in Haider, and the specific script he now uses to say no without losing trust.
• What courageous leadership looks like in practice, drawing on Brene Brown's idea of daring greatly, and why vulnerability is part of that courage.
• How Haider grew University of Cincinnati College of Law applications by 50 percent and landed the largest naming gift in the school's history.
• Why being named America's first Muslim dean of a law school adds pressure that has nothing to do with the job itself.
• How Haider separates conflict as a transactional lawyer from conflict as a dean managing his own team day to day.
• Why loneliness at the top is real, and how Haider finds ways to communicate honestly without a peer to vent to daily.

We talk about:

00:00 Meet Dean Haider Ala Hamoudi and his path to leadership

00:56 The two week Harvard program that first taught him about leadership

02:04 One leadership lesson that has stuck with him the most

04:30 How Haider leads differently through difficult conversations

06:58 Does conflict feel different for a lawyer than for a dean

11:23 Being named America's first Muslim law school dean

16:29 Why Haider chose law over medicine growing up

19:18 The move from civil rights law to Islamic finance

22:04 What surprised him about leaving law practice for academia

23:40 Why leadership can feel lonely even with a team around you

30:34 Turning around a law school's budget and reputation

35:41 Lightning round: DISC, books, and his walk on song

Resources:

• Way of the Peaceful Warrior https://amzn.to/3RAhqHw

Connect with Haider Ala Hamoudi:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haider-ala-hamoudi-1b96311b/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cincylawdean/
• University of Cincinnati College of Law: https://www.law.uc.edu/faculty/directory/DeanHaiderAlaHamoudi.html

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#leadershipdevelopment #courageousleadership #difficultconversations #peoplepleasing #teamtrust #executiveleadership #leadershipskills #accountability #daringleadership #firstgenleader #lawschoolleadership #DISCassessment #leadershipcoaching #conflictresolution #civildiscourse #businessowners #thinkoutsidetheboss

A screen time framework is a way of deciding how your kids use their screens, not just how long they are on them. If you are tired of fighting over timers and hourly limits, you are not alone, and the fight itself is about to change. In January 2026, the American Academy of Pediatrics moved away from strict hourly rules toward guidance built on quality and context, the exact shift Katie Armentrout has already been making at home for years.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, built the Six E's of screen time (entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, and engage) after asking herself one simple question on a dog walk: what am I actually using this phone for? In this solo episode, she walks through each E with real examples from her own house of three kids, explains why escape is the one to watch most closely, and shares the exact script she uses to help her own kids learn to manage their screen time. Download her free Six E's one pager and start the conversation with your family before the new school year begins.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• A screen time framework built around purpose, not hours, and the one question Katie asks before handing over any device: what are you using this for right now?
• The Six E's of screen time: entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, and engage, and how naming the purpose behind a screen session changes the outcome for kids and adults alike.
• Why escape is the riskiest of the Six E's, how it quietly turns into doom scrolling, and the warning signs Katie watches for with her own three kids.
• How much of a message actually lands in a text versus a phone call, and why that changes how you should engage with people through a screen.
• Why Katie's family keeps three screen free days a week in the summer, and what happens to that rule once homework enters the picture.
• A simple script to ask your kids, or yourself, before every screen session so they eventually learn to manage their own screen time without you standing over their shoulder.
• Where to download Katie's free Six E's one pager so you can print it and talk through it with your own kids before the new school year starts.

We talk about:

00:00 Why screen time is the wrong question to ask

00:32 Meet Katie's three kids and their three different stages

01:36 Why Katie actually loves screen time some days

02:24 What's the real problem with time based limits

03:08 How the Six E's framework was born on a dog walk

04:03 The Six E's revealed: entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, engage

05:27 Escape, the riskiest of the Six E's

07:19 Errands, why your phone does more than you think

09:45 How much of communication is really tone of voice

12:04 How to use the Six E's with your own kids today

17:01 Why Katie's family keeps screen free days in summer

23:00 Get the free Six E's one pager

Resources:

• Want a print out of the Six E's of Screens framework? Download it here: https://skilled-trailblazer-7280.kit.com/6es

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#screentime #parentingtips #screentimeforkids #digitalwellness #healthyhabits #parentinghacks #screenfree #digitalparenting #parentingadvice #raisingkids #familyrules #middleschoolparenting #parentingteens #mindfultech #backtoschool #parentingpodcast #thinkoutsidetheboss

How to lead with kindness and care starts with letting go of the idea that leadership only looks like one person at the head of the table. If you've ever doubted whether you're leader enough because you don't fit that image, this episode reframes what real leadership looks like day to day.

Simona Costantini, founder and CEO of VOLT Productions, an award winning podcast agency running over 20 shows a week, joins host Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, to unpack the four values, kindness, care, connection, and integrity, that guide every decision she makes as a leader. Simona also shares why most podcasts stall by episode seven and how direct feedback, done right, is one of the clearest expressions of care a leader can offer.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why leadership doesn't require sitting at the head of the table, and how Simona realized she had been leading for years before she ever called herself a leader.
• The four values, kindness, care, connection, and integrity, that Simona built her business around, and why she holds clients to the exact same standard as her team.
• Why direct feedback is one of the clearest ways a leader shows care, and how Simona reframes tough creative notes so they build trust instead of tension.
• The three questions every new podcast client has to answer before recording a single episode: what the show is about, who it's for, and why they should care.
• Why up to 80% of new podcasts never make it past episode seven, and why the real cause has less to do with content than with how the show was planned from the start.
• How Simona uses human design types like generator and projector to explain why some leaders have nonstop energy while others need to be invited to speak up.
• The sticky note Simona wrote to herself in 2020 that predicted, almost to the month, when she would finally leave corporate leadership behind for good.

We talk about:

00:00 The biggest differentiator between growing podcasts and stalled ones

00:37 Introducing Simona Costantini and VOLT Productions

02:14 When Simona first realized she was a leader

05:19 From crisis communications to launching VOLT in 2021

10:45 The sticky note that predicted her exit from corporate

13:00 Why she renamed the agency from Costantini Productions to VOLT

16:00 The four values behind every decision she makes as a leader

21:29 What actually separates growing podcasts from the ones that stall

24:54 Why most podcasts never make it past episode seven

32:02 Why direct feedback is one of the clearest ways to show care

43:10 Lightning round, human design, and the best advice from her grandma

Resources:

• 101 Essays That Will Change the Way You Think by Brianna Wiest https://amzn.to/4bfGhHf
• The Pivot Year by Brianna Wiest https://amzn.to/4fXwJDe

Connect with Simona

• VOLT Website: https://www.voltproductions.co
• Personal Website: https://simonacostantini.com
• Instagram (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/simona__costantini
• Instagram (VOLT): https://www.instagram.com/volt.productions
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simona-costantini-25653a30
• Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.ca/SimonaCostantini_

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#Leadership #LeadershipValues #FeedbackCulture #WomenEntrepreneurs #PodcastGrowth #PodcastStrategy #BusinessLeadership #CorporateToEntrepreneur #DirectFeedback #HumanDesign #EntrepreneurMindset #PodcastProduction #ServantLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #ContentStrategy #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

The first 100 days methodology is the reason some businesses keep customers for years while others watch them disappear before the ink is dry. If you have ever wondered why a promising new hire quit within months, or why a happy sounding customer never came back, the first 100 days are where the answer lives. Research shows that 20 to 70% of new customers, and a strikingly similar share of new hires, never make it past this window, and most leaders have no idea it is happening.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and a leadership consultant for executive teams, sits down with Joey Coleman, the two time Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Never Lose a Customer Again and Never Lose an Employee Again. Joey walks through the real numbers behind customer and employee churn, from banking at 32% to auto mechanics at 68%, and explains what changes once a relationship survives day 100. You will walk away with a new lens for your own onboarding, whether you are welcoming a customer or a new hire.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why the first 100 days methodology matters: 20 to 70% of new customers quit before their 100 day anniversary, and the numbers on the employee side are nearly identical.
• Why 40% of new hires never make it to their one year anniversary, and why more than half of those departures happen inside the first 100 days.
• Why a net neutral customer experience is actually a negative experience, and what that means for how you design onboarding today.
• How Joey Coleman built his customer experience career through unlikely stops at the Secret Service, the White House, and the CIA.
• Joey's practical test for spotting broken customer experience: if your team ever says "it's our policy," you are telling customers not to come back.
• Why customers who reach day 101 feeling valued and appreciated typically stay for a minimum of five years.
• Why the persistence that makes a 13 year old exhausting to parent is the same trait that makes them successful at 30.

We talk about:

00:00 Joey's advice for people who ask to pick his brain

01:15 Welcome and Joey Coleman's introduction

01:35 When did Joey first realize he was a leader, not a boss?

04:29 Growing up as the oldest of seven and learning persuasion

08:07 From the Secret Service and White House to customer experience

13:00 What draws someone to customer experience over sales

14:59 The professor who changed his career path

27:52 How Joey met his wife at a coworking space

34:57 Why do 20 to 70% of new customers quit before day 100?

39:00 The real cost of a bad onboarding experience for employees

43:35 Lightning round: books, love languages, and hype songs

Resources:

• The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman https://amzn.to/4vAR4Ty
• Pattern Recognition by William Gibson https://amzn.to/4f8Ns6o
• Never Lose a Customer Again by Joey Coleman https://amzn.to/45dSmcc

Connect with Joey

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeycoleman1/
• Website: https://joeycoleman.com/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#First100Days #CustomerRetention #EmployeeRetention #CustomerExperience #EmployeeExperience #NeverLoseACustomerAgain #NeverLoseAnEmployeeAgain #LeadershipDevelopment #EmployeeOnboarding #CustomerOnboarding #JoeyColeman #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #KatieArmentrout #Peoplefluence #LeadershipPodcast #BusinessLeadership #EmployeeTurnover #CustomerChurn #ExecutiveLeadership #TeamCulture

Retirement planning for entrepreneurs usually starts with the wrong question: how much do you need to save by 65? If you've been telling yourself you'll finally rest, travel, and enjoy life once you hit that number, this conversation is going to challenge your timeline.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, sits down with Derek Coburn, a financial advisor with 27 years in the industry and USA Today bestselling author of Let's Retire Retirement, to break down why the traditional retirement model is failing so many business owners.

Derek walks through his Tale of Two Tonys math, showing how pushing retirement back five to ten years can cut your required monthly savings by up to 96 percent, then shares how he built a business and parenting rhythm around presence instead of postponement. If you're building something now and still waiting for someday to start living fully, this episode hands you the numbers and the mindset to start today.

• Why the traditional retirement math almost always overestimates how much you actually need, and how shifting your target retirement age by just five to ten years changes the entire equation.
• How Derek's Tale of Two Tonys breaks down the real dollar difference between retiring at 65 versus 70 or 75, using one client's actual numbers.
• Why financial advisors are financially incentivized to keep you saving and working longer, and the one question you should be asking about your own plan.
• How to build a business and a life around presence instead of postponement, including the exact schedule Derek uses to be done working by three o'clock.
• Why finding a job you don't hate can beat chasing a job you love, and what that reframe means if you're a burned out business owner right now.
• How Derek uses intentional car rides and a recurring family Q&A to build real connection with his teenage sons before they leave for college.
• Why the skills, relationships, and income you build in your 40s and 50s make it easier, not harder, to earn money later in life.

We talk about:

00:00 Why the traditional retirement model is failing you

00:50 When Derek first realized he was a leader

04:00 The book passage that sparked this conversation

05:23 The Tale of Two Tonys retirement math explained

07:21 Why Derek cut his client base by 75 percent

09:00 What happens if every advisor adopted this approach

13:05 What do you say to someone who says they can't do this

18:41 The moment that changed Derek's relationship with time

19:32 How to teach your kids a healthy money mindset

26:32 What if you're already in your 60s with regret

34:37 How to prepare for a 30 minute car ride with your kid

41:59 Derek's favorite personality test and walkout song

Resources:

• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People https://amzn.to/4wvrOii
• Networking Is Not Working by Derek Coburn https://amzn.to/3R2iUK4

Connect with Derek

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derekcoburn/
• CADRE: https://www.cadredc.com/
• Website: https://www.derekcoburn.com/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#RetirementPlanning #FinancialFreedom #RetireLater #FinancialAdvisor #EntrepreneurLife #BusinessOwnerLife #WorkLifeBalance #IntentionalLiving #ParentingTips #MoneyMindset #WealthBuilding #Unretirement #DelayedRetirement #PresentOverPerfect #LeadershipPodcast #BusinessOwners #FinancialIndependence #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

A hybrid work policy for leaders is not really about where your team sits, it's about the culture you are willing to build and defend. If you are stuck debating remote versus in-office, you are asking the wrong question.

This episode reframes hybrid work, return to office, and remote work policy around one thing: intention. Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, spent 20 years in corporate leadership before building her practice around helping executive teams cut through conflict and drama. In this episode, she breaks down how Dropbox, Microsoft, and Goldman Sachs each built radically different work policies that work, and why the difference wasn't remote versus in-office, it was clarity versus arbitrary rules.

You will walk away with three leadership principles you can apply before you write another policy.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why forcing a hybrid work policy from the top down without a clear culture behind it creates arbitrary rules that erode trust and drive turnover.
• How Dropbox's Virtual First model produced a threefold increase in job applicants, 15 percent faster time to hire, and a 16 percent increase in diverse candidates.
• Why Microsoft stopped counting office days and started designing specific office moments for kickoffs, creative sessions, and complex problem solving instead.
• How Goldman Sachs justifies its five day in office mandate through an apprenticeship model, and what CEO David Solomon says is actually driving that decision.
• The three leadership principles to apply before setting any policy: people follow the culture you build, design for the experience not the expectation, and leaders are the policy.
• Why the hybrid versus remote debate really only applies to knowledge workers, and what that means if you lead a team in healthcare, retail, or manufacturing.
• The gut check questions to ask your own team about where your culture actually stands today versus where you want it to be.

We talk about:

00:00 Why your hybrid work policy might be the wrong question

00:38 The viral Instagram clip that sparked this episode

03:05 Three leadership principles before you set a policy

07:19 Dropbox's Virtual First case study 13:26 Microsoft's office moments, not mandates

22:00 Goldman Sachs and the five day apprenticeship model

27:19 Is remote work really only a knowledge worker debate?

27:55 Gut check, where are you on the continuum?

30:21 The three principles recap for leaders 31:17 How to reframe the hybrid work conversation for good

Resources:

• Dropbox Blog Post: https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/Virtual-First-2025-Designing-a-culture-that-drives-impact

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#HybridWork #ReturnToOffice #WorkplaceCulture #Leadership #ExecutiveLeadership #PeopleManagement #CultureBuilding #RemoteWork #LeadershipDevelopment #EmployeeRetention #WorkplaceTrust #TeamCulture #CEOLife #HRLeadership #ModernLeadership #BusinessCulture #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

AI strategy for leaders is not about choosing the right tools. It is about closing the gap between AI ambition and real business results. Right now, 88% of companies are using AI in at least one function, yet only 6% report getting substantial value, defined as five or more points of EBIT impact.

That gap is not a technology problem. It is a leadership problem, and most executive teams do not have a playbook to fix it.

In this episode, Katie Armentrout, leadership consultant and founder of Peoplefluence, sits down with Alyssa Fenoglio, founder of The Human Algorithm and a 20-year veteran of P&G, Medtronic, and several global healthcare companies. Alyssa shares the two defining differences between companies that win with AI and the 94% that do not: a grander growth ambition and a willingness to redesign workflows from the ground up.

You will walk away with a way to think about AI that is less about technology and more about how leaders actually make it work.

• Why 80% of companies are overindexing on efficiency as their primary AI objective, and why it is limiting their results.
• What the top 6% of AI high-performing companies do differently, including setting growth and innovation objectives alongside efficiency goals.
• How the Human Algorithm framework helps executive teams close the gap between AI ambition and measurable business value.
• Why Alyssa says AI high performers are nearly three times more likely to redesign workflows, and what that looks like in practice.
• The two critical skills leaders need in the AI era: strategic framing and judgment, including knowing when to bring AI in and when to lead with your own thinking first.
• Why most companies still have time to build a competitive advantage with AI, even if they feel behind, and where to start.

We talk about:

00:00 Why most AI strategies are not moving the business forward

03:30 How Alyssa's leadership foundation was built through athletics

06:45 What formative career moments shaped her values as a leader

12:00 How AI shows up differently for corporate leaders vs. entrepreneurs

15:20 Why 94% of companies are not seeing real value from AI

18:30 What makes the top 6% of AI high performers different

22:00 How to stay agile with AI tools without chasing every trend

25:00 The case for leading with your own thinking before handing off to AI

27:30 What is The Human Algorithm and how does it work?

31:00 Why AI principles transfer across industries, not just within one

33:20 Lightning round: personality assessments, Culture Map, gut instinct, and hype songs

Resources:

• The Culture Map by Erin Meyer https://amzn.to/4xPl00D

Connect with Alyssa

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afenoglio/
• Website: https://thehumanalgorithm.co/
• Substack: https://thehumanalgo.substack.com/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#AIStrategyForLeaders #HumanAlgorithm #AILeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #ExecutiveLeadership #AITransformation #AIAdoption #ChangeManagement #HumanCenteredAI #AIAndBusiness #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #KatieArmentrout #PeopleFluence #LeadershipPodcast #AIForExecutives #AIValueGap #OrganizationalChange #BusinessLeadership #WorkforceAndAI #AIHighPerformers

Women status at work is not the same as power, and that distinction could be the most important thing your career has been missing. Most women have been told to work harder, get the promotion, earn the title. But if the people around you don't respect and regard you, none of that moves you forward. You can have the degree, the credentials, and the job offer, and still be overlooked.

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, host and recovering corporate leader Katie Armentrout sits down with Dr. Alison Fragale, organizational psychologist, professor at UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School, and national bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. Alison breaks down the science of status, why being authentic and being strategic are not opposites, and exactly how women can build the kind of reputation that earns them a seat at the table. You'll walk away with a new way to think about influence, self-promotion, and the relationships that make or break your career.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why status and power are not the same thing, and why chasing power without building status is costing women at work
• How the Likeable Badass Framework helps you build both warmth and authority so you can be genuinely liked and deeply respected at the same time
• The self-promotion strategy Alison learned from a difficult boss at McKinsey and how it changed the way she shows up professionally
• Why authentic and strategic are not opposites, and how to show up as a real version of yourself while still being intentional about how others perceive you
• How to practice negotiation and advocacy in low-stakes environments so you are ready when it actually matters
• The subtle allyship behavior that builds someone else's status without a single grand gesture, and how anyone can use it
• Why "don't care what other people think" is advice that will actually hurt your career, and what to do instead

We talk about:

00:00 Why liked and respected is not a trade-off for women

03:30 Alison's career pivot from McKinsey to organizational psychology

07:00 The status vs. power distinction that changes everything

10:30 How to practice negotiation in low-risk everyday situations

14:00 How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant

17:30 Why authentic and strategic can coexist

20:00 What does caring about what others think actually mean?

25:00 How to decide whose opinion of you actually matters

28:00 The subtle allyship move that builds someone else's status

34:00 What the research says about women and workplace influence

38:00 Books that changed the way Alison works and sleeps

43:00 The best advice Alison has ever received

46:00 Lightning round: personality assessments, deep work, and walk-on music

Resources:

• Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve, by Alison Fragale, PhD: https://amzn.to/4oS1NHH

Connect with Alison

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisonfragale/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alisonfragale/
• Website: https://alisonfragale.com/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

#WomenAtWork #WomenLeadership #WorkplaceInfluence #StatusVsPower #LikeableBadass #AllisonFragale #WomenInBusiness #LeadershipForWomen #HowToGetRespected #WorkplaceAdvice #NegotiationTips #WomenCareer #AuthenticLeadership #CareerGrowthTips #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #LeadershipPodcast #CareerDevelopment #WomenEmpowerment

Nate Challen did not set out to become the person companies call when the future of work breaks down. It happened because he kept landing at the front edge of change before anyone else knew it was coming.

He started at Ancestry.com building one of the first social platforms before social media existed. He led global teams out of Frankfurt with people in France, Germany, the UK, Singapore, and South America. He ran Canada for Sanofi as a general manager with barely 5 percent of his boss's attention and a full cross-functional team looking to him for every decision. And then COVID hit and the rest of the world caught up to what he had already been navigating for years.

In this conversation, Nate and Katie get into the leadership questions most people are too comfortable to ask honestly. What actually makes hybrid work, and why most companies are doing it wrong. What happens when you get promoted over the peer sitting next to you. Why the best leaders ask about ambition before they start coaching. And what it means to find teammates instead of competitors everywhere you go, including business school.

This is a conversation for the leader who wants to stay ahead of what is coming, and the manager who wants to stop losing people to policies that were never designed with them in mind.

• Why most hybrid work policies fail and what intentional workplace design actually looks like
• What to do in the first 90 days when you land in a new role, new city, and new culture all at once
• The ambition conversation most managers never have and why it costs them their best people
• How to navigate the shift from peer to boss without losing the relationships that matter
• Why the carrot beats the stick every time when it comes to getting people back in the office
• What leading a geographically fragmented global team teaches you about building culture on purpose
• The difference between being the boss and being a leader, and why they require different things from you
• How curiosity became Nate's most consistent leadership tool across seven states, two countries, and multiple industries

We talk about:

00:00 - Two votes and a basketball team: the moment at Kenan-Flagler that made Nate realize he was a leader

05:00 - Seven states, two countries, and the formula he used to land well every single time

08:00 - Curiosity as a leadership tool: how to get familiar with a culture before you try to lead it

09:00 - The mid-career wall: why coaching someone toward your ambition instead of theirs is a waste of both of your time

15:00 - When did you first realize you were a boss: becoming GM in Canada at 5 percent of your boss's scope

19:00 - From peer to boss: the Sanofi global role where his former teammate suddenly reported to him

22:00 - The hybrid work conversation: why Nate had a head start on what everyone else panicked about

26:30 - Why intentional workplace design is the only thing that actually works in hybrid

28:00 - The Tuesday problem: everyone shows up on the same day, there are no seats, and the whole day is Zoom calls

32:00 - Lightning round: Myers Briggs INTP, Working Genius, 4,000 Weeks, and why being more efficient is the wrong goal

37:00 - The best advice he ever got and the boss who told him to stop trying to be something else

39:30 - The Rolaids failure: why ambition is a good thing and failure is only failure if leadership punishes it

Resources:

• 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman https://amzn.to/4aAGc09
• Who Not How by Dan Sullivan https://amzn.to/4xf6b71

Connect with Nate

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natechallen/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nchallen/
• Website: https://www.brandistry.info/

Connect with me

• Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/katie_armentrout
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katiearmentrout
• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiearmentrout
• Newsletter: http://www.peoplefluence.com/newsletter
• Website: http://www.peoplefluence.com

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