Third Person Limited: A Books Podcast

We were fortunate to have Jared Lemus, author of the story collection Guatemalan Rhapsody, join us to discuss masculinity and empathy in fiction. Jared recently won the PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize for debut story collection, and he was also once Nate’s co-worker. (Which is also a noteworthy achievement.)

Plus, what if the author was peering over your shoulder while you read their book? They aren’t, but what if you intentionally imagined that they were, and it was up to you to figure out what they’re doing with their writing? This is all just hypothetical and not a real topic from our podcast.

Works cited this episode:

How to Commit a Postcolonial Murder, Nina McConigley

Go Tell it on the Mountain, James Baldwin

Giovanni’s Room, James Baldwin

Paradise Lost, John Milton

“The Death of the Author,” Roland Barthes

“The Intentional Fallacy,” W.K. Wimsatt Jr. and M.C. Beardsley

The Sun Also Rises, Ernest Hemingway

The Old Man and the Sea, Ernest Hemingway

A Farewell to Arms, Ernest Hemingway

The Maltese Falcon, Dashiell Hammett

The Epic of Gilgamesh

Beowulf

We’re excited to welcome filmmaker and author John Sayles to the show. John spoke with us about his most recent novel, Crucible, which focuses on the impact that an egocentric automobile magnate’s uninformed plans has on the economy and other populations. Sounds vaguely familiar. We also dove into John’s career, screenwriting vs. writing fiction, and what makes Pittsburgh so great.

Then, our intrepid hosts returned to a topic hinted at last time: how much overlap there is between the books the two of us have read? What a shocker: we both read Moby-Dick!

Crucible by John Sayles is out now

Works cited this episode:

A Moment in the Sun, John Sayles

The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald

Naked Lunch, William S. Burroughs

White Teeth, Zadie Smith

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Hunter S. Thompson

One Hundred Years of Solitude, Gabriel García Márquez

A Game of Thrones, George R.R. Martin

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Stieg Larsson

The Hunger Games, Suzanne Collins

To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee

The Mummy, the Will, and the Crypt, John Bellairs

Want, Lynn Steger Strong

Why We Read Fiction: Theory of Mind and the Novel, Lisa Sunshine

Don’t Skip Out on Me, Willy Vlautin

The Killer is Dying, James Sallis

Pulp Fiction, dir. Quentin Tarantino

The Corrections, Jonathan Franzen

So your manuscript was rejected by another publisher. Will you revise your work to meet the shifting whims of the marketplace, or hold steady to your uncompromising vision, bragging all the while about the rejections you’ve accumulated like tumbleweeds tangled in a barbed wire fence? Meanwhile, we also wonder if one can ever truly read a book alone, or if the various social contexts are inextricable from that experience, like tumbleweeds tangled in a barbed wire fence.

Works cited this episode:

“Why is everyone suddenly obsessed with reframing rejection?” Brittany Allen, LitHub

This Side of Paradise, F. Scott Fitzgerald

The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald

Tender is the Night, F. Scott Fitzgerald

All the Pretty Horses, Cormac McCarthy

Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy

“Host,” David Foster Wallace, The Atlantic

“In Defense of the Traditional Review,” Richard Brody, The New Yorker

Middlemarch, George Eliot

Sundial, Catriona Ward

Piranesi, Susanna Clarke

She’s Come Undone, Wally Lamb

I’m Losing You, Bruce Wagner

Don Quixote, Miguel de Cervantes

Moby-Dick, Herman Melville

“The Couch,” Seinfeld, created by Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld

Beloved, Toni Morrison

Will Nancy Drew, the Hardy Boys, Encyclopedia Brown, or any of the other fictional teen sleuths ever grow up? We spoke with Tom Ryan, whose novel We Had a Hunch throws adult versions of kid detectives into several harrowing grown-up situations, from hunting a serial killer to the slow-dawning realization that they’ve become middle-aged.

Plus: are contemporary works of art too literal? It’s no fun if a novel or a movie tells to your face its theme and meaning. That’s the message of our movie, Movies Should Not Tell You Their Meaning.

We Had a Hunch by Tom Ryan is out now.

Works Cited this episode:

Nancy Drew mysteries, Franklin W. Dixon/the Stratemeyer Syndicate

Hardy Boys mysteries, Franklin W. Dixon/the Stratemeyer Syndicate

The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, Agatha Christie

Keep This to Yourself, Tom Ryan

The Treasure Hunters Club, Tom Ryan

Murder, She Wrote, created by Peter S. Fischer, Richard Levinson, and

The Silence of the Lambs, dir. Jonathan Demme

“The New Literalism Plaguing Today’s Biggest Movies,” Namwali Serpell, The New Yorker

Anora, dir. Sean Baker

Cinderella, dir. Wilfred Jackson, Hamilton Luske, and Clyde Geronimi

Mad Men, created by Matthew Weiner

The Brutalist, dir. Brady Corbet

Invisible Man, Ralph Ellison

The Trial, Franz Kafka

Eradication, Jonathan Miles

The Housemaid, Frieda McFadden

Valley of the Dolls, Jacqueline Susann

The Daydreaming Boy, Micheline Aharonian Marcom

Outbreak, dir. Wolfgang Peterson

Friends, created by David Crane and Marta Kaufman

Field of Dreams, dir. Phil Alden Robinson

Shoeless Joe, W.P. Kinsella

Mikey and Nicky, dir. Elaine May

The Parker novels, Richard Stark

Tender is the Flesh, Agustina Bazterrica

The Jungle, Upton Sinclair

Sister Carrie, Theodore Dreiser

We have too many reviews and not enough interpretive criticism. At least, that’s what Nathan says, and it seems to hold water. A true critique engages your intellect and raises questions, while a review just says whether you should watch that movie/read that book/listen to that podcast.

In our second segment, we engage with Ivy Pochoda’s latest novel, Ecstasy, which itself engages with the classical play The Bacchae. We’re not saying a cult of drunken women who kill the men would solve all our problems, but maybe it’s a start.

Ecstasy by Ivy Pochoda is available now

Works cited this episode:

I Know What You Did Last Summer, dir. Jim Gillespie

Our hosts have ideas about what sort of books should have been included on the Voyager spacecraft, to support its heartwarming mission of spreading humanity to the stars. Would you have just sent the aliens your favorite book? Because maybe they don’t have the context to understand what a “Da Vinci Code” even is. And speaking of putting a lot of pressure on a book, TV creator Michael Schur’s How to Be Perfect put that pressure on itself. Philosophical ethics never sounded so good.

How to Be Perfect by Michael Schur

Works cited this episode:

The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, William Shakespeare

Author and screenwriter Chris Hauty joined us to discuss his latest thriller, Dead Ringer, which imagines a conspiracy around the JFK assassination—and if you think you’ve heard it all before on this topic, we assure you this novel will take you somewhere you were not expecting. Chris shared his surprising influences and offered insights about where Hollywood and book publishing overlap (and where they don’t).

Then, we ponder why books are such popular gifts when they’re actually rather fraught as an item to give someone else. What if they don’t like it? Or don’t even like books? Or you’re trying too hard? Or … what if we’re overthinking this topic. Hmm.

Dead Ringer by Chris Hauty is out now.

Works cited this episode:

Crossroads by Jonathan Franzen

Notes of a Dirty Old Man, Charles Bukowski

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, dir. Quentin Tarantino

Sniper: Ultimate Kill, dir. Claudio Fäh

Three Days of the Condor, dir. Sydney Pollack

Winter’s Bone, dir. Debra Granik

Winter’s Bone, Daniel Woodrell

The Da Vinci Code, Dan Brown

The Gift, Lewis Hyde

“The Gift of the Magi,” O. Henry

Profiles in Courage, John F. Kennedy

Kon-Tiki, Thor Heyerdahl

Jurassic Park, Michael Crichton

Dog Man, Dav Pilkey

Our Share of Night, Mariana Enriquez

Sister Sinner: The Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance of Aimee Semple McPherson, Claire Hoffman

They Flew: A History of the Impossible, Carlos Eire

Why? The Purpose of the Universe, Philip Goff

The Nickel Boys, Colson Whitehead

“Don’t Buy Me Books,” Katherine Marciniak, Bookriot

All those “best books of the year” lists are bogus marketing material that flattens the distinct reading experience that any individual brings to a book they interact with. We tore apart the very concept of those lists in this episode. Then we shared our own Best Books list! Hypocrisy, or nuanced ability to delicately balance competing perspectives? Eh. 

Also, what is Author X up to with that crummy novel they released this year? Blind and not-so-blind items on the year’s worst books.

Works cited this episode:

Books We Love, National Public Radio

100 Notable Books of 2025, The New York Times

Sunshine on the Reaping, Suzanne Collins

Audition, Katie Mitamura

Spent, Alison Bechdel

“In Defense of the Traditional Review,” Richard Brody, The New Yorker

Luminous, Silvia Park

Audition, Pip Adam

Terrestrial History, Joe Mungo Reed

What We Can Know, Ian McEwan

The Three-Body Problem, Cixin Liu

Shadow Ticket, Thomas Pynchon

Of Monsters and Mainframes, Barbara Truelove

The Merge, Grace Walker

Severance, created by Dan Erickson

Severance, Ling Ma

The Unveiling, Quan Barry

Will There Ever Be Another You, Patricia Lockwood

Bind Me Tighter Still, Lara Ehrlich

Old Soul, Susan Barker

Metallic Realms, Lincoln Michel

Pale Fire, Vladimir Nabokov

Alchemised, SenLinYu

We’re back with more Short Stories We Love, after Nathan scoured the literary mags to find writers who deserve a closer look. Short stories aren’t just for The New Yorker! In this episode, Joey Hedger brings us a tale of cancer and terrible liqueur; Glenn Clifton joins from Canada with a story of viral infamy and relationships; and Patricia Q. Bidar shares an ode to her hometown featuring a massive explosion. 

“Her Jesus Year” by Joey Hedger is in HAD

“What You Are Looking For Is What Is Looking” by Glenn Clifton is in The Ex-Puritan

“Port Town” by Patricia Q. Bidar is in Waxwing 

Works cited this episode:

No One is Talking About This, Patricia Lockwood

We had a great time welcoming writer Amber Sparks to the show and discussing her new novel Happy People Don’t Live Here, which features a girl detective, abusive men, ghosts, a mermaid, and what it means to keep your love for someone alive long after they — or you — are gone. Amber is conflicted about the idea of Virginia Woolf using social media and, like several guests before her, stands up for the unjustly maligned second person POV. 

Then, we do a deep dive on We Love You, Bunny, this year’s follow-up to Mona Awad’s cult hit novel Bunny. We are unanimous in our belief that it is both sequel and prequel, which is both interesting and problematic. 

Amber Sparks' books can be found on her website, she can be followed on BlueSky, and her story "Your Life in Parties" is in the Substack literary Journal Short Story Long.

Works cited this episode:

Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll