This episode is with Efron Licht! I met Efron about a year ago, and I make the time to have a call with him every Thursday morning despite the myriad obligations of running a business because he's so goddamn good at programming (and also funny). His writing removed a lot of wild industry dysfunction from my brain around actually programming, and you can find it all eblog.fly.dev. Pick a random article and have fun, they're all great.

Also many thanks to Sarah for editing this episode! We have a paid editor now, everyone! (But also, many thanks to Lisa Lorenzin for getting us this far on volunteer hours!)

And finally, if you're a podcast description reader, the guest next month is Ed Zitron -- shhhhhhh, calm down, don't tell anyone, okay, this is between us.