TMI with Kevin Ryan

We've all dealt with clients that are directly problematic, or ones that mean well, but can have moments of toddler-like temper tantrums. Enter Carla Rover, an outspoken, very witty, and widely published writer, to help us navigate these waters. Carla talks about the reasons you may be getting ghosted after a job interview, content mapping and her way of doing it without emotion, and how best to show your value in a non-threatening way. She also gives her advice for writers and consultants new to the job market and how to get yourself to stand out (but not too much!) while virtual work continues to become the norm.

Takeaways:

[3:14] Carla talks about navigating a job search during the pandemic and why she decided to move away from telling companies what changes she would make during the interview.

[7:55] Companies can be very resistant to change, and consultants have to navigate these waters almost in the way you would help a toddler cross the street. Carla says that it's best not to indict them for their past choices, but instead, show them how you can help in a non-threatening but data-filled way.

[10:54] We have to respect the world that people inhabit and keep our approach dignified. Carla discusses how there are more senior people looking for jobs than ever, and many well-established writers will take smaller jobs with fewer benefits than they previously would have.

[15:21] Companies want things fixed quickly and Carla explains how we can best enact change by using data and research to cite our decisions. Make it about the numbers, and not you. It's a matter of being realistic but wrapping it in a magical school bus so everyone feels happy and in control of their choices.

[23:00] Carla feels like the interviews where she got ghosted may have been the ones where she tried to add value in the interview by providing suggestions. What to do when you get ghosted? Keep your head up, and move on. Learn from it, but don't dwell on it.

[26:05] The smartest thing for qualified people right now is to remain independent and develop their own approach.

[29:15] The "people like us" approach calls for us to choose people we think are like us to trust and work with. This is an invisible way of blocking change, but if you can figure out how the business model works and handle it like an engineer, you will have an easier time.

[35:42] Carla's road map that she is creating now means less ego and more compassion and added value. Because she is taking data and writing a report based on that data, there are fewer arguments because you can always go back to the numbers.

[44:42] Often the stuff that judges us is stuff that bothers us about ourselves. It's important to find your own way to look within, whether that's therapy, a daily bike ride, or some other way to process emotions and manage stress.

Quotes:

• "We have to respect the clients' weirdness, their psychosis, their need to be right." — Carla
• "The smartest thing for qualified people right now is to remain independent and develop your own approach." — Carla

Mentioned in This Episode:

@CarlaRover

Yes, Minister

Yes, Prime Minister

This week, Kevin welcomes cellist Elham Al Marzooqi to the show. Elham is the first female cellist in the Emirates, along with being a Senior Legal Counsel for Flash Entertainment. Elham speaks about how she adjusted as a musician during the pandemic to connect with her audience online, and ways that she feels our society could better recognize and help musicians. Elham uses her platform to educate others on the cello and loves connecting and inspiring young women on her YouTube channel. She talks about the importance of lifelong learning, why it's crucial to go for your dreams no matter what anyone on the sidelines is saying, and how she is constantly pushing outside of her comfort zone.

Takeaways:

[4:41] Elham talks about adjusting to a remote schedule during the pandemic at Flash Entertainment, where she is a Senior Legal Counsel. Like many new remote workers, there are good things about it (no commute) but then situations that call for self-management, such as knowing when to shut work off so you don't work 24/7.

[11:58] Many people that made their livelihood from playing music were affected during the shutdowns, and these musicians still need help and support.

[17:02] Elham practices the cello at least two hours every day and reminds us that being a musician is such a big commitment of time, energy, and money. Musicians are professionals and have associated costs, and should not be offered just "exposure" to play somewhere anymore.

[22:19] Through Elham's channels, she likes to connect with women that are in the arts and interested in performing.

[25:29] Musicianship is a lifelong process, and even the greatest ones could always practice to get a little bit better. Elham speaks about it like a sculpture, where you are always chipping away at it and fine-tuning the details.

[25:47] Elham talks about submitting herself for the Amit Peled Online Cello Academy, something that took her out of her comfort zone but made her grow.

[28:50] For Elham, the magic is in just playing, and not in self-promotion. She never set out to be the first of any kind, but focuses on doing what she loves and consistently working at it.

[35:44] You don't need to wait until conditions are perfect to go for what you want. Your showmanship is going to show while you are building up your craft.

Quotes:

• "When these things shut down, there is a psychological impact that you see play out on every form of social media." — Kevin
• "The journey is about art and less about self-promotion." — Elham
• "I am always there to try and perfect my craft." — Elham
• "You have to have a thick skin." — Elham
• "I don't want to look back on my life and regret not doing anything." — Elham
• "Your showmanship is going to show while you are building up your craft." — Elham

Mentioned in This Episode:

Elham Al Marzooqi | LinkedIn

Flash Entertainment

Musivv "HomeGROWn Artist of the Year"

Online Cello Academy

Band of Horses

Flash Entertainment

Joey Dumont returns to the show to share the inspiration behind his poignant, touching, and raw new book, Joey Somebody: The Life and Times of a Recovering Douchebag. Out now and available in stores, Joey's book is relatable and all too typical for those who have struggled with addiction, abuse, and any type of loss or trauma. Joey talks about getting through the "heavy" chapters in the writing process, and on to lighter and more self-deprecating stories, as well as how he shed a lot of his douchebaggery in the process. Joey also catches us up on how he has been coping throughout the pandemic, what we can expect from him next, and why you may never hear him yelling from a hotel basement again.

Takeaways:

[4:18] Inspiration struck for Joey when his best childhood friend was tragically killed, and he saw how humor helped heal a fraction of the pain. In writing the book, he took the same approach to focus Chapters 1 to 4 on his tumultuous relationship with his father and step-father's abuse, so he could get to the lighter matters towards the end.

[8:04] It was like therapy for Joey to write about his father, and he found the process therapeutic and cathartic. Yes, it was dark, but it became easier, the more he wrote.

[11:36] His writing process was really the first time Joey relived his brother's death as well, and he knew he had to feel the emotions and cycle them through rather than push them down or try to distract himself away from the pain.

[17:37] Men, especially in our society, are taught to not show their emotions or grief when really being vulnerable actually takes courage.

[18:09] The persona we often carry around is heavy. If you can laugh at yourself, it helps you grow and even gives others around you the permission to be themselves.

[24:02] Joey shares his top douchebag moments that even to this day he still mildly cringes about! Gold watches and custom suits, we sure have come a long way.

[35:20] Confidence is great, but arrogance and puffing up due to insecurity typically have a different outcome. We need confidence to excel in the external world, but Joey talks about how he was able to connect more as a human with others when he realized how he was puffing up due to insecurity.

[50:31] Although Joey sprinkles in a lot of humor in his work, he knows mental health and addiction are two serious topics. What makes this book so powerful is how relatable and typical it is.

Quotes:

• "I wanted my kids to know that their heroes are vulnerable." — Joey
• "You either cry it out or figure it out. You just can't let it sit." — Joey
• "If I can laugh at myself, it allows people to laugh with me in the process, and it takes away a lot of the anxiety." — Joey

Mentioned in This Episode:

Joey Somebody

Joey Dumont | Instagram

Kitchen Confidential

The Art of Memoir

Marc Maron

Patrick James

Brand Storytelling

Vanity Fair Interview with Brad Pitt

Joseph Jaffe has written five best-selling books and thousands of columns, along with launching the CoronaTV show during the pandemic. He and Kevin talk about reconciling our current state to look at the opportunities with wonder and awe, how a social contract would help the way we talk to each other online, and the deep need to reclaim social media and make it less political. Joseph also talks about conscious capitalism and how we can make money but still help each other, and why he believes we all need political couples therapy.

Takeaways:

[4:25] CoronaTV is a thoughtful and insightful show, not a call!

[6:18] The global pandemic has many downsides and it is a life-changing event, but there is some good in it. For Joseph, it was developing CoronaTV where he has deep conversations with thought leaders and entertaining friends, and he is finding that he wouldn't have time to dig in as deep if we weren't home in quarantine.

[9:12] It's not that Joseph and Kevin feel bad for people still getting that corporate paycheck, but for those that have been laid off, it is almost like they have been given the gift of a reset. Joseph hopes that after all we have been through over the past couple of months, we won't go back to our old bad ways and habits.

[10:48] We can still be a capitalist society and make money, but we can be conscious about it and not at the expense of human beings. This is what Joseph calls "Conscious Capitalism."

[13:38] The biggest challenge we have now in marketing is apathy.

[21:19] Kevin and Joseph discuss how social media and Twitter has become more of a broadcasting platform than a space for people to thoughtfully share balanced and nuanced information. Our algorithms are keeping us isolated and taking away the ability to think critically or see the other side of the argument.

[33:22] For the "blue checks" on social media, there must be accountability in what you say and how you say it. Being verified on a social media site doesn't necessarily mean you are worthy of having a platform to spread your message out into the world without any questioning or counterbalance of thought.

[40:20] Joseph discusses the idea of a "Supreme Court of Truth" social contract where we are open to hearing the perspective of others, believe there is truth in their statement, and open to compromise.

[47"07] We need to reclaim social media and not have everything so politicized.

Quotes:

• "Sometimes you gotta be pushed. We might not have the fortitude or the stomach to see the change in our lives, if not for these life-changing moments."
• "They say hindsight is 2020, except in 2020 when you don't need hindsight to realize it sucks."

Mentioned in This Episode:

The Social Dilemma

Corona TV

Joseph Jaffe Books

Kevin's appearance on Corona TV

Tucker Carlson

Dan Granger is the CEO of Oxford Road, a Los Angeles-based ad agency that provides innovative and groundbreaking marketing campaigns for some of the best-known brands out there now including Hulu and DollarShaveClub. Dan joins the show to talk about creating real change in the way we communicate, how brands can navigate a divided marketplace, and how we can start to reward content creators and supporters for a more even and factual discourse. Dan also speaks about The Media Roundtable, and how people can get involved.

Takeaways:

[1:55] Dan discusses how LA traffic ended up being the inspiration for him to work in both FM and AM radio, and then eventually land in podcasting. In the podcasting sphere, he saw the potential to unlock a greater opportunity for different content and advertising possibilities than ever before.

[3:43] Dan talks about launching an ad agency that specialized in podcasts, and soon he was placing ads in heavy-hitting shows such as The Adam Carolla Show and The Joe Rogan Experience.

[5:19] Dan worked with companies that were early advertisers in the podcast space. He saw how they were able to be innovative and disruptive with their approach and dig even deeper into helping listeners get to know their brand story.

[7:30] As the world becomes more and more divided with our political beliefs and us-vs.-them mentality, it is tougher for marketers and brands to navigate how and where to reach their audience.

[14:28] Dan's mission is to create opportunities for media and marketers to be rewarded for bringing people together, rather than only benefitting when we are engaged in canceling and arguing with one another. With how strong the Twitter lynch mob mentality is now along with media bias and corporate influence, we have a long way to go.

[19:27] Outrage industrial complex is a strategy that wants to keep us divided with the belief that you can make more money when people are outraged and pitted against each other.

[20:00] The purpose of the Media Roundtable is to put a higher premium on words that advance ideas and bring people together to solve those programs. They have members of the media, creators, and brands that are interested, sign a pledge to use their talent and platform to unite rather than divide.

[30:45] The Media Roundtable provides a place for thought leaders and marketers to broaden the discussion of how we can have a civil discourse and less a polarizing, monosyllabic, biased one.

[48:18] It may be a challenge, but we first could have to make it in Facebook and other corporations' interest to create a financial model where people are rewarded for balanced, fair, and nuanced conversations.

Quotes:

• "The very nature of the podcast listener is looking for different things. They are not afraid to be at the tip of the spear of a new way of doing something."
• "News is better served when it's even-handed."
• "We gotta deal with each other, and we gotta keep dealing with each other."
• "There is a market for the longer, nuanced conversation, we just have to do work and be patient that it will work out and pay off over time."

Mentioned in This Episode:

Media Roundtable

The Divided States of Media

Ad Fontes Media Bias Chart

National Institute of Civil Discourse

Oxford Road

The Reverent Blue Line

This week, I welcome Adam Kleinberg, CEO and Co-Founder of Traction. We discuss the way culture is changing dramatically as a result of employees having the ability to work remotely, and how we can thrive in a remote environment without affecting the work or the team dynamic. Adam talks about Traction's remote working policy, how they provide everyone with the tools to do their job professionally, and why you will want to make sure the Zoom camera is on when it's required.

Takeaways:

[3:33] Adam talks about Traction's transition of pivoting from being an agency into a brand experience consultancy, designed to support and turbocharge in-house teams.

[6:13] Adam's team makes sure everyone has their basic tools to do the job, whether it's an office desk, computer monitor, or even phone setup.

[9:46] They have also implemented a little of the budget for wellness, and put an emphasis on the work/life balance.

[11:10] It is more important than ever to hire people not just for their skills, but if they really show up to be present, and be an integral and helpful member of the team.

[12:48] Traction makes sure they let employees know that some meetings require a "camera-on" policy.

[16:37] Adam sees a future where some people will choose to continue working remotely, while others will opt to be back in an office. It is up to the CEO and team visionaries to make both possible and functional.

[20:49] The future may see more adjustments for salary based on the market in which an employee lives.

[29:06] Yes, it's true. Adam really was blogging back in the 1990s, before it was cool.

[30:53] Adam discusses people moving out of the Bay Area and to other locations to be with their family, since it's not required for the industry in the current moment.

Quotes:

• "We have it in the handbook — don't be a jerk." — Adam
• "Part of building a great company is finding people who align with some sort of cultural ethos." — Adam
• "We have to stop thinking about counting impressions and figure out how to make them." — Adam
• "Good talent can live anywhere." — Adam

Mentioned in This Episode:

Adam Kleinberg LinkedIn

Silicon Valley Pay Cuts Ignite Tech-Industry COVID-19 Tensions

Howard Stern Show

Andreas Cohen is the Tribal Leader of the Smart Data Marketing Elite and founder of I-COM. He joins the show from Spain this week to explain why understanding Smart Data is important for businesses to stay competitive and make sure their message to the customer is consistent and effective. He also discusses the results from the Hackathon, the benefit of organizations that combine behavior with data science, and how he has been adapting and innovating due to the recent shift in networking and professional gatherings in person.

Takeaways:

• The ways in which we defined and categorized data in a company as marketers have changed. While at first, it was about more than just a digital transformation, group leaders soon saw the importance of how data can be the catalyst to transform the business as a whole, and other departments than marketing.
• Andreas refers to Smart Data Marketing as the art of creatively leveraging value from Data to create competitive advantage in products, user experience, and promotion.
• I-COM is a Global Sector Association helping its members to achieve competitive advantage in Smart Data Marketing.
• At I-COM, their Data Science Hackathon broadened the scope of participants, helping them understand marketing and product development in an even broader sense.
• While we need hyperspecialists, our Chief Data or Digital Officers also will be the ones defining the standards for the organization and overseeing each unit and vendor.
• Data scientists are trained very skillfully in finding patterns and extracting value from the information they gather.
• I-COM has meetups where they gather and discuss the industry and obviously that has been affected by the COVID-19 pandemic. While online chats are great for now, they don't replace the benefits of the connection that comes with talking to someone offline.
• We see more companies hiring people in the marketing sciences.

Quotes:

• "For us, it's about scaling what we are doing selectively."
• "Maintaining the integrity of the community is priority number one."
• "We are seeing companies get back after the shock and awe of the pandemic."

Mentioned in This Episode:

I-COM

I-COM Events

Rishad Tobaccowala is an author, speaker, and advisor, named by Time Magazine as one of five "Marketing Innovators." He joins the show this week to talk about his new book, Restoring the Soul of Business, and how we can transform personally and professionally in this new era of "The Great Re-invention." Rishad and I also discuss why tech is nothing without talent, how leadership can create an environment for their talent to speak up, and why it's best to ditch the PowerPoint every now and then at your meetings.

Takeaways:

[2:48] Rishad wrote his book, Restoring the Soul of Business, after traveling around the world and witnessing how leaders and managers were torn between how important data and tech actually was, and then struggling to understand what that data even meant for their own company. He saw that the companies that integrated data with their story did much better than ones that were solely data-driven. The book is organized into twelve chapters that you can read straight or skip around and it gives the reader much to work with in terms of leadership with a soul.

[11:16] As a leader, it is your responsibility to help your people speak up in a safe environment. One example is senior managers asking their team after a meeting why their current course of action possibly may not work, or to encourage hypotheticals of what may go wrong.

[22:53] In this time of the Great Re-Invention with COVID-19 and beyond, it is essential that professionals improve their skills and see themselves as a brand.

[40:01] Great managers and leaders listen for what's not being said. As more companies work from home, having smaller breakout meetings face to face (or Zoom to Zoom for now) can help build culture and actually use time wisely.

Quotes:

• "Data is like electricity, you cannot today compete without it." — R
• "Yes, leaders do matter, but one of the smartest things leaders do is surround themselves with world-class talent." — R
• "The future of your career is up to you. It's not up to someone in talent management or HR." — R
• "We shouldn't confuse activity with accomplishment." — Kevin

Mentioned in This Episode:

Rishadtobaccowala.com

Breaking Bad Insider Podcast

Rishad's podcast | Blog

Restoring the Soul of Business: Staying Human in the Age of Data

Bullsh*t Jobs: A Theory

David Berkowitz is my long time friend, colleague, founder of Serial Marketer, and an all-around good guy that will never ghost you. In fact, David feels as though it's important to write back to everyone — even if it's just a brief reply. This week he joins me for a conversation on why people ghost, what to do about it, and why you don't want to be a victim of ghosting karma. We also talk about our definition of being an agent of change, and how that doesn't always align with what the company is trying to get out of its interview candidates.

Takeaways:

• Not only does David share a name with one of the most well known serial killers ever, aka the Son of Sam, but he used it to his advantage and Serial Marketer now takes the reins in Google search results when you type in his name.
• During the pandemic, it's even harder to tell who is really "ghosting" you and who is just dealing with personal issues. It's best to first not try and take it personally, and come from the perspective that maybe someone is dealing with some hardships.
• If you are sure you are being ghosted, it's a likely sign that you dodged a bullet anyway. It may be a blessing in disguise to have someone not answer when they aren't capable of having hard or uncomfortable conversations.
• It's hard when friends ghost, but just downright unprofessional for roles such as recruiters or hiring managers to do it.
• It's best not to ghost people even from the perspective that communicating back with them, even brief but respectfully, can lead to something good for you.
• The industry is enormous, but small enough that if you ghost, chances are you will see them in person at some point.
• Instead of ending phrases that close the door such as "hope you are well," asking someone how they are doing in a 1:1 email will most likely yield better results.
• Even if the message or promotion isn't a fit for him, David will still take the time to write back to the sender.
• You must draw boundaries when it comes to interviewing for a position and giving away full business and marketing plans. If they are looking for a consultant, be sure to get hired before you do all the work for free.

Quotes:

• "It's sobering right now. A little bit of empathy does go far." — D
• "The more opportunities I create for others, then that's more fun. It just gives people that chance to get out there." — D
• "When you put a whole bunch of good stuff out there, it comes back to you." — K

Mentioned in This Episode:

LinkedIn — David Berkowitz Article

Serial Marketer

Mike Kujanek is the Founder & CEO at Magnitude Digital, an award-winning full-service digital marketing agency based in New York, Atlanta, Los Angeles, and Tokyo. Mike joins the show to talk about how to best navigate the ever-changing world when it comes to digital advertising and social media platforms. Mike and I talk about the Stop Hate for Profit campaign and how big brands pulling out of Facebook ads may affect the entire industry. We also discuss the need to diversify advertising strategies and how we can both participate in social justice and advocacy without taking away necessary revenue.

Takeaways:

• Facebook has been criticized for sharing and monetizing misinformation. In June of 2020, a group of civil rights organizations including the Anti-Defamation League called on businesses to "hit pause on hate" and not advertise in July.
• Some of the larger advertisers may pull their advertising off Facebook indefinitely until the site is more aggressive against hate speech.
• The larger brands may be able to not use Facebook, but they have much more support than most small-to-mid-sized companies. Some companies cannot afford to get off Facebook, as they rely on it as one of their main revenue streams.
• We are in a duopoly where many advertisers are dependent upon the big two: Google and Facebook for their revenue and brand recognition.
• Brands must learn to not be so beholden on Facebook and treat it as a great communication device, but not the only source of connecting with their customer.
• It may seem like things are slow and will never pick back up, but this time is just a test of leadership. Keep your will and your drive high, and we will get through this!

Quotes:

• "The world might be coming unglued, but you have to keep commerce and business moving."
• "Brands have to be smarter about advanced analytics."
• "People who have been pulling themselves up by the bootstraps over the course of time might not have an easier journey, but we are more equipped to handle this adversity."

Mentioned in This Episode:

Stop Hate for Profit

Mike Kujanek