Here's why tariffs aren't the problem. Because there's always someone who's buying. Sometimes it's harder to find them. Sometimes it's easier to find them. So if, as a result of tariffs or anything else, it's going to be harder to find people, we understand that. But it doesn't mean that business is over and it doesn't mean that we can just sit and stew, because that just doesn't work.

David: Hi. Welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I'll be discussing the fact that tariffs are not the problem. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to to see you, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. Great to see you as well.

Kevin: Yeah. We're talking about a topic that is in the news a little bit these days. You introduced the topic as tariffs aren't the problem. What do you mean by that?

David: Yeah. I mean, if you're watching the media, you would think they are, but...

Kevin: Yeah, I would say so.

David: What I mean by that, and I'm not saying they're not a problem. What I'm saying is they're not THE problem. Okay, difference in the title. Tariffs aren't the problem. Okay?

The reason this came up is I was having a conversation with someone in the promotional products industry who was talking about some of the issues that she was dealing with, and she mentioned the tariffs, and how the tariffs really had her very concerned.

And I said, well, it's understandable because it creates a level of uncertainty that people are generally not happy with. I said,

Kevin: Sure.

David: How many orders have you actually lost as a result of the tariffs? And she said, well, none. I'm like, okay. Well that's a good start, right?

If you haven't lost any orders so far as a result of it, that's a great way to start. And we just talked about the fact that everyone is dealing with this, everyone in the United States, anyone is dealing with this. And so, we're on an even playing field with any competitors, right? Because any competitors that we have are likely dealing with this as well.

When we focus on things that are not the problem, like the thing that's actually keeping us from getting clients or getting reorders, or getting referrals, when we focus on those things, we're going to be a lot more productive in terms of being able to accomplish more things in less time, without focusing on the things that are not the immediate problem for us.

Kevin: I mean, are business owners using tariffs or other external factors as as an excuse, if maybe they're having poor sales or things like that?

David: Probably not consciously, I don't think they're consciously using it as an excuse. But it's easy to see it happen. And it's not just tariffs. Anytime anyone is concerned about the growth of their business, not being able to get enough new orders through the door, not able to get enough new customers through the door.

Whenever they're not doing that, they're looking for reasons. And when you think of it logically, you'll look at the reasons that are actually happening. Well, what are the reasons this is happening? But when there are any sort of scapegoats in the market, people are likely to look at them, or point to them, or express concerns about them.

Very often the concerns are about the things that could happen, that might happen, that could potentially happen, as opposed to what is actually slowing them down right now?

Kevin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, it's dangerous to blame outside forces, like tariffs, instead of addressing in ternal issues. Because if you do that, you're going to potentially either ignore or downplay maybe some internal issues that you might have within your company. Is that a fair assessment?

David: Yeah, and it's just not productive. When we're having interactions with clients, and let's say a client does raise the issue that they have concerns about pricing or they have concerns about how tariffs are going to impact their pricing and all that sort of thing.

Obviously, you need to address those questions. But if you go into a client meeting or a client conversation, thinking in the back of your mind, "oh, I hope this doesn't come up," or "I'm really worried about this," then you're not focused on the things that are going to advance the dialogue, and get things moving forward.

I think a lot of times it's important for us to realize that we need to give them more important things to think about. Give them something else to think about other than the potential problems that they could run into as a result of doing business with you. We want to really help focus on the results they actually want.

What are they trying to accomplish with this promotion? Because if the promotion itself is really not going to do anything for them. Then they probably shouldn't spend the money, right? It's gotta accomplish something. And until we understand what is supposed to accomplish for them and then gear our conversation toward helping them address those things, we're always going to be left to whatever they come up with in their minds. Just like what we come up with in our own.

Kevin: Right. Now, obviously, you know, speaking specifically to the promotional product industry, a lot of stuff comes from China. A lot of stuff comes from, just other countries in general. Are there times, I mean, have you seen cases where tariffs have impacted sales?

David: Well, I'm sure it has. I haven't had any clients come to me directly and say, " I lost this huge order because of the tariffs." No one has said that to me at this point, but there's an aspect of this that people lose sight of as well, and that's the fact that a lot of times, in the promo industry, the goods that are being purchased from overseas are the blank goods.

Right? So that's kind of on the low end of the cost spectrum. These companies, the suppliers in the industry are importing the goods and then they're decorating them, and that's where a lot of the margin goes, right?

So, since the tariff is just on the products that they're importing, in a lot of cases that can be a very small number.

And in the promo industry in particular, distributor margins are kind of obvious. In the industry, everybody kind of knows what they are. And supplier margins are another thing. Nobody really talks about that, like what they pay for the actual cost of goods. I think that's one of the other concerns, is suppliers, in some ways, don't want people to see what they're paying for the blank goods, because then that sort of gives 'em an insight into what they're charging for that stuff.

And that's not a condemnation of anyone. That's just the way business is done.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. It's kinda like a, not trade secret per se, but kind of in that realm a little bit.

If a tariff or anything anything else, outside forces, pandemics, whatever, impact sales, have have you seen sometimes where the response to that is even more important than the tariffs themselves? Or, more impactful?

David: Oh, absolutely. When you mentioned COVID, I mean there were some people who just gave up at the beginning. They were just like, okay, I can't sell anything right now.

When they convinced themselves of that, they weren't reaching out to anyone. They weren't selling anything. even if they could have, right?

Because, when you're thinking about business that you're potentially losing, well, are you losing it because you approach people and they said, no? Or are you losing it because you didn't approach them, because you were afraid they'd say no? I mean, fear is just such a killer of sales because it kills sales that haven't even been attempted.

Kevin: Yeah. I think we've talked about this before, the stoic approach of "control what you can control" and try not to worry about the things you can't control. How can businesses shift a focus from what they can't control to what they can?

David: Well, I think if you look at what your daily activities are likely to be, if you have a to-do list, or if you're working from a calendar, which is much better than a to-do list, right?

Because to-do lists are just overwhelming. It's like, well, no, I'll do this. I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to do that. Right?

But if it's on your calendar, if you say, "okay, 8:00 AM I'm doing this, 8:30, I'm doing this, nine o'clock I'm doing this."

If you create a little structure in your life, it will require you to focus, as long as you actually follow through on what it is that you say you're going to do.

The types of things that cause the most business to be lost, in my view, is the time spent on that level of thinking, that causes you to be thinking instead of selling. And not taking action instead of taking action.

So I think that's really gotta be the primary focus.

How many people am I interacting with today? Or how many new leads am I bringing through the door? How many conversations am I having? I mean, that one metric alone, how many conversations am I having is a big one.

If I'm putting out some sort of advertising... an ad, an email broadcast or something like that. How many people did it go out to? Because if I send out one email to a hundred people, it's like, okay, well at least I tried to initiate contact with a hundred people today. That's something, instead of nothing.

And a lot of this, in my mind, becomes binary. I'm either doing it or I'm not doing it. I am making calls. I'm not making calls. I am sending emails. I'm not sending emails. I am attending networking functions. I'm not attending networking functions.

When you spend your time sitting in fear, instead of standing and walking with purpose, and introducing yourself, and meeting people, you just have no shot if you're not doing those things.

Kevin: I want to give you some props from the beginning of your answer to that question because the calendar over the to-do list. What a great tip. it seems small,...

It’s no fun when clients shop your ideas. If you ever came up with a brilliant idea for a promotion, only to have a prospect think it over, say they’d get back to you, but then ghost you and buy it from someone cheaper, you know the pain of being the unpaid consultant in the room.

Being the brains behind a competitor’s sale is not ideal.

You’re the one who did the work, thought it through, created the ideas, sourced the products, and made the recommendations only to have someone else place the order and cash the check.

What’s up with that?

Why are some ideas purchased immediately, while others are stolen, ghosted, shopped around, or just ignored completely?

That’s what we’ll explore in today’s episode.

If your best ideas keep ending up on someone else’s commission report, you may think you have a pricing problem. But it’s more likely you have a positioning problem.

And it starts with the way you build out the experience of doing business with you.

You're Not Just Selling Products—You're Selling a Process and an Experience

You already know that prospects and clients can buy promotional products from ANY of a never-ending lineup of distributors, both online and off.

That’s not what sets you apart.

What sets you apart is the experience you create for them, from your First Contact through every other aspect of dealing with you and your organization. This includes:

The clarity you bring to the project

The confidence they feel in your guidance and

The relief of not having to think through all the moving parts themselves

Those are just a few of the differentiators, and none of them happen by accident.

Instead, they’re the result of:

The Messaging you use to position yourself as a valued resource, instead of just another product peddler.

The marketing Vehicles you use to reach, impact and motivate recipients to get the desired response from them, and of course…

The People you are proactively choosing to engage with. Not just anyone, but those who are less likely to shop and more likely to buy.

If you don’t have those three pieces firmly dialed in: Your Messaging, your Vehicles, and your People, then the right experiences are far less likely to happen.

Why the Experience You Create Beats Product Alone Every Time

Let me ask you this. What does it feel like to work with you?

Years ago, salespeople had a much easier time getting away with selling features and benefits. “Here are the features of what the product is, and here are the benefits of what the product does for you.”

But in the information age, that doesn’t begin to cover it.

A spec sheet can do it adequately. They don’t need you for that.

So what are your best clients actually buying from you?

More often than not, it goes way beyond features and benefits. It also goes way beyond branded merchandise. It’s:

The confidence they get from the recommendations you make

The trust they have in your ability to deliver what you promise

The experience they have when interacting with you

Ultimately, it’s the emotion they feel as you bring all that together for them, taking the stress off their plate and knowing you’ll make them look like a star to their target audience.

It’s very difficult to shop that, because so few businesses deliver it consistently.

But that’s what they’re buying from you. Clarity. Confidence, and Certainty.

If your messaging doesn’t communicate that, then your value is invisible.

Without that, you end up with people asking for ideas, shopping them around, and awarding the business to the lowest bidder.

Not Every Prospect Wants or Needs Your Full Process, and That’s OK

Of course, not every prospect needs a full consulting experience.

Some just want a quote on a pen. Others want pricing on 50 business cards. Still others will just ask you to put together your best ideas and tell you they’ll get back to you.

All of that comes with the territory. But you don’t have to play by those rules.

Does everyone get full access to all your best ideas, insights and pricing right out of the gate?

Or do you qualify them first?

Do you have a procedure, in place, to reduce the likelihood that you’re dealing with an idea thief, a cheapskate, or a price shopper?

Just as your clients get to choose you, you also have the right to choose which prospects get the benefit of your ideas, insights, and expertise.

When your approach feels like it’s made for them—when it’s tied to their goals, objectives, and business challenges—they don’t want to shop it.

Because the offer didn’t come from a product peddler, it came from an expert. Someone they trust. You!

If you’re ready to make that shift in the mind of the buyer, from product seller to trusted resource, Go to TopSecrets.com/shift

Download the free PDF, stop giving away your best ideas, and start getting paid for the results you create for your clients in the real world.

If your Messaging doesn’t differentiate you…

If your marketing Vehicles don’t reach, impact and motivate your ideal buyers…

Or if the People you’re reaching are unethical, low-dollar, price-shoppers, you wll never earn up to your potential.

So let’s make the shift. Download the free pdf now at TopSecrets.com/shift

Do Clients Shop Your Ideas?

If so, download the PDF. Then check out the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors grow:

Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just starting out in promotional products sales, learn how we can help.

Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here.

Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to hire others to grow your promo sales, click here.

Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, schedule a one-on-one Strategy Session here.

Want to stop undercharging and get paid what you're worth? In our last episode, we talked about the dangerous disconnect between effort and results. How being busy isn’t the same as being profitable, and why aligning your actions with your outcomes is the only sustainable way to grow.

But what happens when you do align your actions…

You do deliver real value…

And you’re still not making what you feel you're worth?

That’s what we’re getting into today. It's a big blind spot related to pricing and undercharging.

So if you already know your work is worth more than what you’re charging for it, this episode could be the game-changer you didn’t even know you needed.

The Hidden Problem: Undercharging Isn’t Just About Numbers

Most business owners don’t consciously undercharge for their services.

No one wakes up in the morning thinking, “How can I leave money on the table today?”

But undercharging is not usually about neglect. It’s also not about generosity.

More often than not, undercharging is related to fear.

Fear of losing to lowball competitors.

Fear of being seen as too expensive or greedy.

Fear of not getting the order.

It's also about perception: Their own perception, and the market’s perception.

Many people base their pricing on what they think their clients can afford… or what competitors are charging… or worse, what a particularly cheap prospect once told them they were worth.

But consider this:

Pricing isn’t just math. It’s strategy.

If your price doesn’t reflect your expertise, your results, and the transformation you create for your clients, it’s not just undervaluing your work.

It’s sending your market a message that says: “The work I do isn’t really worth all that much.”

Your Pricing = Your Market Position

In business, price signals value.

So when you charge like a commodity, you get treated like a commodity. And when you price like a strategic partner, you tend to get treated like one.

It’s not just about numbers, it’s about how your prospects and clients see you.

Are you the kind of person they value and are grateful to work with?

Or are you just someone they’re trying to squeeze for discounts?

That gap often comes down to three things that many business owners tend to overlook:

How they define their work.

Who they present it to.

What they allow themselves to charge for it.

It’s not about buzzwords or branding jargon. It’s about clarity.

Are you describing your work in a way that makes prospects lean in or glaze over?

Are you putting it in front of people who already get the value—or those who need convincing?

And are you pricing it in a way that honors the transformation you deliver… or just typical industry pricing?

In a free market system, everyone gets to set their own pricing. We all get to decide.

By saying this, I’m not suggesting you should overcharge for the products and services you offer. I’m just encouraging you to consider what your time, effort, and life energy are worth to you when calculating your prices.

Clients Are Willing to Pay More When They Understand Why

You already know that in every market, there are price-shoppers who always make their buying decisions based solely on price.

They’ll get ten quotes. That means ten people will do all the work of pricing out the job, only to lose that order to the one person who is willing to work for the least amount of money.

Are those the people you want to be basing your pricing on?

Another important consideration is that in every market, there are always people who are willing to pay more.

You just need to target them, know what to say to them, and be able to reach them effectively.

That’s the essence of the monetization strategy that is missing from most businesses. So when you have it, and others don’t, you win.

When providing a reason for your ideal clients to choose you, it can’t be the usual, “we do great work.”

When I conducted live training sessions all over the country and asked audiences what set them apart from their competition, do you know what the top three answers always were?

Think about your own answer for a moment. In a word, what is it that sets you apart?

Is it your service? Is it your ideas? Is it your creativity? If so, you’ll discover that there are a lot of people saying exactly the same thing in your market right now.

So how will you communicate the differences between you and every other option available to your prospects and clients?

If you don’t know, then you will always be charging less than you could, and leaving money on the table.

Do your ideal clients even know what’s at stake if they go cheap, or more importantly, what they can gain when they invest with you?

The clients you really want, don’t just buy on price. So the sooner you adapt your approach to targeting them accurately, communicating with them correctly, and reaching them effectively, the sooner you can leave the low-ball clients to your low-ball competition.

The Real Cost of Staying Undervalued

Because when you underprice and undervalue yourself in the market, the cost is not just financial.

It’s psychological, emotional, and reputational.

That means it will determine what they think of you, how they feel about you, and ultimately how they value you as a professional.

When you’re not earning what you’re worth, it’s easy to start resenting the clients you used to love working with.

You may find yourself second-guessing your value, and working longer hours, for people who just don’t appreciate the results that you bring to the table.

Attracting the wrong clients—the ones who nickel-and-dime you, question your worth, and shop you around, are the biggest energy drainers on the planet.

Meanwhile, your ideal clients—the ones who would pay more—either don’t know you’re alive or don’t see you as a contender.

And if you’re great at what you do…

That has to stop.

If you ever wondered how to stop undercharging and start getting paid what you're worth, or how to raise your prices without losing clients, it’s time for us to have a conversation.

But before we even do that, be sure to download our free pdf at TopSecrets.com/shift.

Because it's about more than pricing. It's about raising the standard for how your work is valued and how your expertise is perceived in the market.

How to Shift from Undervalued to In Demand

Answer this question honestly for yourself:

“Are you pricing based on what you’re worth… or what you think the lowest common denominator in your market is willing to pay you?”

Your answer to that question should tell you whether or not you’re ready for a shift that will allow you to build a framework that justifies premium pricing with strategic clarity.

Clarity that:

Aligns your messaging with your ideal clients.

Articulates your value in terms they actually care about and

Creates offers that command attention, and justify investing in you, instead of the low-ball, price-cutters down the street.

When you’re ready to turn the page, and create that shift, download the pdf at topsecrets.com/shift and if it makes sense for us to have a conversation, you’re welcome to schedule a call.

Because when you build from that foundation, everything changes.

TopSecrets.com/shift.

Ready to Stop Undercharging and Get Paid What You're Worth?

If so, check out the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors grow:

Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just starting out in promotional products sales, learn how we can help.

Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here.

Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to hire others to grow your promo sales, click here.

Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, schedule a one-on-one Strategy Session here.

Busy doesn't equal profitable. We got a lot of great feedback from our last episode, in which we talked about how many business owners still cling to outdated methods that used to work, but don’t work anymore.

We addressed the hard truth that more of the wrong activity won’t fix a broken approach.

We looked at the reasons typical performers feel stuck, waiting things out, hoping for a turnaround that may never come…

And we pointed out how smart, focused professionals adapt and move forward now, in a way that differentiates them from less-profitable, average businesses.

Today, I’d like to pick up that conversation by talking about one of the biggest sources of frustration that I hear from business owners and salespeople across the board:

Why am I working so hard and still not making enough money?

If you're grinding all day, doing "everything you're supposed to do," but still not seeing results, you’re not lazy, and you’re not crazy.

But it’s likely you got caught in a trap that drains your time, energy, and income.

I’m talking about…

The Effort Trap: Busy ≠ Profitable

At one time or another, we’ve probably all bought into the idea that if we just work harder, the results will come.

More hours, calls, emails, and outreach.

In some cases, it works. But not always.

More effort does not automatically equal more income. Sometimes it just means more exhaustion.

You can do all the things you think you need to do: chase leads, follow up, create quotes, juggle accounts and still feel stuck.

Because it’s not always about how much you’re doing.

It can also be about how well you do those things, and how well you communicate your value.

Effort alone doesn’t create income.

So it’s not just actions that create value in the eyes of your clients, and revenue for your business. Only aligned actions can do that.

When that alignment is missing? You can work 24/7 doing everything you think you need to do, and still come up short in the money department.

The Illusion of Progress: Mistaking Motion for Momentum

And that leads into the second trap—the illusion of progress.

This is where the to-do list becomes a badge of honor, and the packed calendar provides a false sense of security.

It feels productive, but at the end of the month, you still might not have enough in the bank.

Because movement alone is not progress.

It’s like the rocking chair, or the hamster wheel. It may keep you moving, but it doesn’t get you anywhere.

Same thing with being busy. It doesn’t guarantee forward momentum.

And that can be extremely demoralizing.

You’re checking all the boxes, showing up, doing the work… and you may still feel stuck in the same place.

That’s where burnout sets in, doubts creep in, and even really good people can start to wonder whether all of it is worthwhile.

Because even when you do great work, you still might not get paid based on your worth.

Value vs. Revenue: When Great Work Goes Unrecognized

Let’s say you’re someone who’s not just spinning your wheels.

You’re producing results, making your clients happy, and solving real problems for them.

If your income still isn’t where you feel it needs to be, it’s one of the most frustrating disconnects in business:

Doing valuable work… but not being paid in proportion to that value.

There’s a reason this happens.

It’s because the market doesn’t reward effort. And it doesn’t always reward value.

In fact, it’s more likely to reward perceived value and perceived results.

Meaning, that If your clients don’t understand the value you provide, and the results you create for them, then your revenue can still fall short of your value.

It’s not a reflection of your talent or the work you do. It’s a reflection of how your prospects and clients perceive that value.

And much of that is about your communication.

The Strategic Shift: Replace Hustle with Alignment

That’s why the highest earners in our industry are not always the hardest workers.

But they are very often the most intentional workers, and the most intentional communicators.

They know what to do.

They know what to stop doing.

And they know how to make sure their actions and their communication supports their goals.

This allows them to shift from constant activity to purpose and clarity.

So if you’re stuck in the loop of overworking and under-earning, the solution is not to double down on your effort.

It’s to trade in your hustle for alignment.

If you’re still unclear on how to make that shift, go to TopSecrets.com/shift

Download our free PDF that outlines how smart, focused business owners build better systems, attract more desirable and profitable clients, and create exceptional results.

You don’t have to keep working harder for less.

You don’t have to settle for feeling overextended and undercompensated.

And you definitely don’t have to keep running on that hamster wheel hoping it will eventually break loose and take you somewhere.

You just need a better system that aligns your time, value, and communication with the results your clients are happy to pay for.

So if you’re ready to make that shift, download the PDF now at TopSecrets.com/shift.

Download the PDF

You deserve to be paid in proportion to the value you bring to the table

And the sooner you begin to align your efforts with your value in both your actions and your communication, the sooner that happens.

In our next episode, we’ll take this conversation a step further and examine why so many business owners underprice themselves even when they’re delivering amazing value, and what you can do to shift from being seen as a commodity to being recognized, and paid, as a premium provider. Talk to you soon.

Ready to Make All Your Activities More Profitable?

If so, check out the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors grow:

Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just starting out in promotional products sales, learn how we can help.

Need Clients Now? If you’re already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here.

Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to hire others to grow your promo sales, click here.

Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you’re serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, schedule a one-on-one Strategy Session here.

Time for a shift in your business? There was a period of time when getting print and promotional product clients was a lot easier.

People loved and appreciated your work. They answered and returned your phone calls. They placed orders proactively. Sometimes they even referred enough new clients that your customer base practically grew all by itself. Sounds like a fantasy! But does that still happen?

It can. But nowadays? Not so much...

Today, too many people in our industry are fighting against reality. They're pounding away on activities that used to work, but don't work anymore. Instead of changing their actions, they blame the prospects, or the marketing method, or the economy, or the tariffs.

You'll see them complaining in industry groups, saying things like "People aren't answering their phones." "Social media's a waste of time." "No one's returning phone calls." "Networking events are worthless." "This economy stinks!"

And while people may be experiencing those things, the people who are making money in our industry right now are not doing any of that. They know that all the whining, blame-shifting and scape-goating is not going to fix problems that are partially caused, at least,  by taking wrong or ineffective actions that no longer work.

So instead, they're adapting their approach, refocusing their efforts, eliminating ineffective tactics, and engaging in the tested, proven, strategic methods that work right now.

You know, the gap between where you are right now and where you want to be is not going to magically fill itself. And you can't count on the actions that used to fill those gaps to continue to do so in the future. Because they won't. They can't. It is literally impossible.

Of course, very few motivated people will sit around willingly and do nothing, as the things that used to work for them continue to lose their effectiveness. But very often, they just double down and try to do more of it with brute force effort. Putting in more time, more energy, making more calls, and overcoming more objections, while continuing to fall behind.

It's exhausting to watch, and it's even more exhausting if you have to do it!

So why doesn't that work?

Because taking ineffective actions more aggressively does not create the results you want.

Yes, in business, particularly when you're facing challenges, speed of implementation is critical. But that only works when you're taking the right actions in the right order.

Doing the wrong things faster won't get you to your goal. It's like speeding off in a racecar that's going in the wrong direction.

So while TYPICAL businesses try to fix the problem by running faster, working longer, pushing harder, and sacrificing more -- to try to make the hamster wheel turn faster, and faster, and faster, while still getting them nowhere -- smart, focused business owners are changing their approach to suit the times.

You probably already know that if your business is struggling, and you don't change your approach, your results cannot possibly change. It's like Einstein's definition of insanity, doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. And since so much has changed in such a short period of time, you can't even expect the things that DID work well -- even a few months ago -- to work well now.

So what do you do?

Well, it's likely that if you knew what changes to make -- if you knew exactly what to do, and exactly how to fix it -- you would have done it by now, right? Because, who wouldn't?

What I'm talking about today is not for the majority of typical business owners who are just going to sit it out, wait it out, or worse yet, whine it out on social media.

It's also not for average performers who take average actions to create average results. That's going to happen by default. When things get tough, average sales inevitably decline.

Those of us who have been through these cycles before? We know the drill. You can read all about it in the industry publications when it's in danger of happening, when it starts to happen, as it's happening, and after it happened. Then, at that point, the articles will turn to discussions about the recovery. "Here's what average distributors are doing right now to get back to their average results!"

But what if you could build it out, max it out, and scale it out now, instead of having to ride it out to the bottom, just so you can slug it out to get back to where you were before?

If you've been in the industry for a while, it's very likely that your work has gotten better. Your expertise has increased. You have clients who love you, because the results you create are exceptional. If that's the case, then why settle for lower sales, fewer clients, and "riding it out" when you don't have to?

Right now, I'm working with a small group of industry professionals who are dedicated to growing, building, and scaling their businesses NOW, so they'll be light-years ahead of the typical, average businesses who are content to struggle and lose business while they "wait and see."

So if you're ready to make the shift, to get more of your ideal clients faster and easier right now, go to TopSecrets.com/shift and download a copy of my free pdf that explains how we can help you. That's TopSecrets.com/shift.

Isn't it Time for a Shift in Your Business?

If so, check out the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors grow:

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Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

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Arguing with reality in business is a huge waste of time. If you've got clients who are in that head space where they're sort of scared, they're not quite sure what to do next. If you call them and you're in that same head space, then you're not helpful to them. But if you call them with some thoughts or ideas on how you can help them to accomplish the things they want to accomplish, now you have value, and they're going to be happy to talk to you.

They're going to want to talk to you because they understand that you may have the solution to some of the problems they're facing.

David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I ask the question, are you stuck arguing with reality? Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you, David. Normally, I feel like I'm stuck arguing with virtual reality these days. With Chat GPT or the like. What are we talking about when you say "argue with reality?"

David: We touched on this in a previous podcast, and it's a quote that I heard from Byron Katie. She wrote a book called Loving What Is, and she had this quote in there where she said, "Whenever I argue with reality, I lose, but only 100% of the time."

And I loved that quote because it just seemed so completely true.

Anytime we argue with whatever is actually happening, whatever's going on in the world, whenever we argue with that reality, we lose.

And if you go to social media, any social media platform, you will find millions of people, every day, arguing with reality.

They'll be talking about things they have no control over, that they wish weren't the case. And you can waste so much life doing this, that I thought it would be good for us to have a conversation about it.

Kevin: Well, we talked a little bit about controlling what you can control and accepting what you can't control, so it kind of fits into the same category. And it feels like we tend to resist what's happening, instead of adapting to it. Is that fair to say?

David: Yeah. I think a lot of people do that, and not that we're even doing it intentionally. A lot of times we don't even consider this idea of what is reality versus what am I looking at on a day-to-day basis?

We tend to go into experiences, whether it's conversations with people, whether it's posting something on social media or replying to someone on social media, doing any of these things, and we just feel like we're having a conversation and we don't necessarily take into consideration what are the things that are just real and true, that I might be arguing against, right?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: So when people go online, particularly now, and they're on there and they're talking about tariffs and all the terrible things that are going to be happening to their business, I look at that and I'm like, okay, well, the tariffs, that's true. The uncertainty in the market, that's true.

Everyone is dealing with that. But if I talk about that without looking for solutions, without looking for the ways to get around those problems, then why am I even doing it? Isn't that not just wasting time, but wasting our lives and other people's lives?

Kevin: Mm-hmm. What other ways, you know, we mentioned tariffs, there's plenty of big stuff out there that's happening that affects the business world.

But as far as, you know, just getting into the sales process, the business process, what other ways do you find that people argue with reality?

David: Ghosting. Sales in general? Cold calling. I mean, every aspect of sales requires us to deal with different aspects of reality every single time. Right?

"These people won't call me back." Okay. That may be a reality with those people.

Another part of reality though, is that there are people who will call you back. There are prospects who are responsive. There are people who need to buy your products and services right now.

All of those things are also true. And when you focus on all the things that cause you to not get business, you don't focus on the things that can actually get you business.

So you're not just doing a terrible job with your own mental health, you're also being counterproductive.

Kevin: And there's a pretty high cost to staying stuck in "this shouldn't be happening" mode, right?

David: Yes. I mean, I don't even know if anyone's attempted to calculate it. I don't know that anybody's even thought to calculate it. Because again, most times when people engage in this sort of behavior, it's not like they're thinking about it.

It's not like, "oh, I'm going to go talk about things I have absolutely no control over."

We don't approach it like that. It's like, "this is on my mind and I'll share it." And then somebody else, who is equally upset about that thing replies back to agree with you. And then you're like, "Yeah! Now we're both mad" and nobody's selling anything!

Kevin: The resistance I mentioned before, you know, resisting instead of adapting. How can that kind of resistance show up in how we interact with clients or prospects?

David: I've never seen any situations where it's been good, right?

Kevin: Yeah.

David: When people are in a head space where they're really frustrated about something that's going on, or they're feeling out of control, any of those mind spaces are not good for interactions with clients.

So I think the first thing we need to do is to recognize if you're in a situation like that, probably not a good time to go to a meeting or pick up the phone and have a conversation with a client. So just recognizing your own limitations in that regard.

But also just asking yourself, what is something positive that I could talk to my client about? What is something that I can help them with?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: You know, when...

Kevin: Reframing yourself before you even pick up the phone?

David: Exactly.

Kevin: Yeah.

David: And when everybody is stuck down in the pit, you can't really help anyone. So, when times are difficult, when the economy is difficult, one of the things I like to do is to say, "okay, well how can you position yourself as out of the pit so you can help other people get out too?"

If you're both down there complaining about the fact that you're in a pit, it's not helpful, right? Can I boost the other person out or can I manage to climb out and help other people out as well?

Just looking at the actual situation for what it is. I'm not saying ignore it. I'm not saying pretend it's not happening. All I'm saying is that you can recognize reality, and then operate within the guidelines of that framework.

Kevin: Sometimes, it an emotional thing? Are we too emotional to even get ourselves out of that mindset of arguing with reality, of being unwilling to accept how things are?

David: We certainly can be. As you said earlier, like a lot of times in different situations we're all guilty of these things, right? You get into a certain head space where you can't seem to get out and until you do, you shouldn't be interacting with clients.

But yeah, in addition to not being healthy or helpful, it's the kind of thing that spreads.

So when you're interacting with other people in a state like that, you create more people like yourself. It's almost like The Walking Dead... a zombie apocalypse where zombies create other zombies. You don't want to do that.

Kevin: You mentioned, we talked about reframing before you make a call, things like that. Are there other ways someone can train themselves to respond to what is, instead of what they wish was happening?

David: A lot of it requires just a little bit of thought upfront. And just asking yourself the question, "okay, what are the things that my clients are likely struggling with right now?"

Are they struggling with whatever's going on in terms of tariffs? Are they struggling with the fact that people are hesitant to spend money right now and they can't sell more of their products and services?

Because if they're struggling with that, and if our job is to help them to create awareness, as many of our clients in the promotional products industry, their job is to help their clients get the attention of other people.

If we know we can do that, then we need to focus on those solutions. When people are in a mood like that, if you've got clients who are in that head space where they're sort of scared, they're not quite sure what to do next. If you call them and you're in that same head space, then you're not helpful to them.

But if you call them with some thoughts or some ideas on how you can help them to accomplish the things they want to accomplish, now you have value and they're going to be happy to talk to you.

They're going to want to talk to you because they're going to understand that you may have the solution to some of the problems that they're facing.

Kevin: Have you had clients that you talk to about this?

David: Constantly!

Kevin: Yeah?

David: Yeah.

Kevin: What is, what is usually the... are they usually open to it? Are they resistant to even you bringing it up? Or are they more like "oh yeah. That is kind of happening."

David: Well, it's funny you should ask the question, because when you ask me that and you say, "do I talk to my clients about this" and I say "constantly," it's not like they bring it up to me, right?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: They'll bring up a situation and then I'm like, "well, you have no control over that, right?" And then I explain what I'm talking about, and the whole idea of arguing with reality. Then they'll go, "oh man, how much time have I wasted arguing with reality?"

So, if you can have that takeaway from this podcast, it'll save yourself a conversation. It'll save yourself a lot of time. But if you can recognize when you're engaged in those activities, you can probably do a lot to stop it just like that.

Kevin: You know,...

We'll say things like, "oh man, there's just so much going on. I'm so busy. I'm just busy, busy, busy every day." When you're saying that sort of thing, it's a strong indication that you've got a bunch of unfinished business. You've got open loops, and maybe you're not capturing it.

David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I will be discussing the topic of no more unfinished business. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. And you?

Kevin: Good, good. So unfinished business. What do you mean when you say that?

David: Well, I learned this somewhere, a number of years ago, and when I first heard, I was like, "oh man, this is me."

They were talking about the fact that in business there are starters and there are finishers. And very often they're not the same person. Right? There are some people who are very good at starting projects and other people who are very good at finishing them. A lot of entrepreneurs, and some salespeople as well, are very good at starting projects.

We're all excited and we're very happy to dive in, and then we tend to lose interest as we go.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: And what that creates is a lot of unfinished things all around. And when you've got these unfinished things, they weigh on you. Right?

And so when I talk about the idea of no more unfinished business, what I'm saying is that we should look at the things that are out there, that are stuck in the back of our minds. It's like, "I know I need to do that. I know I need to finish it. I haven't done it yet, but I don't feel like it," or whatever it is that's keeping us from getting it done.

Kevin: Is it possible that you need to look at it and say were these things really that important in the first place?

David: That's a great way to approach it. Right? Because there are things you just say, you know what? I started that, but no, that's not worthwhile.

Kevin: There's a reason I didn't finish it. Yeah.

David: Exactly. And it's good to eliminate that sort of thing. Whenever you're able to do that. If there's something that you're working on, you decide, look, this is not generating the results I'm looking for.

Yes. Just make sure that you don't cancel it because you don't feel like doing it, right? You got to cancel it for the right reasons. If you're going to eliminate it, make sure that you evaluated it first.

One of the things that I've talked about a lot in terms of just the things that we do in our projects is looking at things, I refer to it as the RADD method, RADD.

It stands for Remove, Automate, Delegate, or Do. Okay, so we start with the R. Remove.

And there's a reason these are actually in this order, which I'd nearly forgotten. But the reason is that if you do it in this order, you're going to end up a lot better off. If you start by removing the things that don't have to be done, then wow, that's a big relief.

You're able to, essentially,

Kevin: Your list just got smaller. Yeah, yeah.

David: Yeah. You just eliminate it before it even becomes a problem, so that's the first step. You basically remove it.

Second step is if you can automate it, right? If it's something that can be automated, then you don't have to do it. You don't have to have anyone else do it, and it will happen automatically going forward.

So simple things like email autoresponders can allow you to create responses to something once and then have them happen again and again and again. So anything that can be automated, ideally should be automated.

Third step is delegating. Can I delegate this to someone else? Can I delegate it to someone else in my organization? To a virtual assistant? Can somebody else do this effectively?

And then the fourth one the second D is Do it. Then you actually do it. And if you go through this in that order, you remove things first. You automate them second, you delegate them third, then you're only left with having to do it.

If you haven't been able to remove it, automate it, or delegate it.

Kevin: Right.

David: So that tends to work really well. Now, in terms of being in a situation where you don't want unfinished business, if you look at that sort of model and say, okay, this is what I'll do.

I'll remove the unnecessary stuff first. Automate the things I can. I'll delegate what I can, and then eventually I'll do it. Then you should have fewer or ideally no more unfinished business on your plate.

Kevin: Do you find that businesses and business owners that have a ton of unfinished business sort of on the plate that it drains their energy?

David: I know it drains mine, when I have stuff on my plate.

Kevin: Yeah, it almost becomes overwhelming, right? Like you just don't even know where to start and you lose some momentum, you lose some drive.

David: It's awful. And I think particularly for salespeople, when you've got a bunch of people out there who are in decision mode, they're trying to decide if they're a yes or a no, and they drag it on for weeks, months, or years. That is just crazy.

Are you familiar with the term open loops in psychology?

Kevin: Yes.

David: It's such an important concept and for those who are watching who aren't familiar with this topic, the idea of open loops in psychology, goes back to the idea like if you're in a restaurant and a waiter or a waitress comes over and takes your order and they're not writing anything down and you're thinking, how are they going to remember this?

There's this thing in psychology where people tend to be able to remember things short term for as long as it's necessary to remember them, right? So if you come back three weeks later, the likelihood of that person remembering your order, unless you've ordered it a dozen times, is very low, right? They don't hang onto it forever.

But this is how things work, generally, in our minds, is that we tend to be thinking about the things that are unfinished. Like if you've got unfinished business, it's going to gnaw at you. That's what I take away from the idea of open loops.

If you've got open loops, it's going to gnaw at you. It's going to drive you crazy.

So the idea of having no more unfinished business, in your business, goes back to that idea. You'll be less stressed and you'll feel better, you'll be able to get more done when you're able to accomplish this.

So by looking at how can I do this, how can I close as many open loops as possible? It just liberates you In your business.

Kevin: You mentioned sales teams. How do unfinished tasks impact the momentum or the confidence of a sales team?

David: It impacts them a lot. And I know that for a lot of years, in sales, what I would do is if somebody was even potential, if they were like, yeah, I'd really like to do it, but I'm not quite sure when or what. I mean, I would just continue to follow up again and again and again and again over weeks, months.

And a lot of times people are just nice and they just don't want to tell you no, but that's not being nice. That's really not nice at all. It's about the worst thing they can do.

Kevin: Yeah.

David: So one of the things that I started doing in my own sales career is that I realized when somebody starts going off in that direction, where they start out very sure and very confident and very certain, and they sound like everything is ideal and perfect, but then they get to a point and they start going the other way.

Yeah. Well, I, no, I'd really like to do it. Now's not a really good time, but you know, Hey, I'll get back to you. I'll get back to you soon. In my head I'm going, this is done, right? Now, it may not be done. But it's done on my end, right?

I'm not going to keep that as an open loop thinking, "oh, maybe that person's going to come back." And maybe they will, and you leave the door open, I'm not saying you say, "well, that's it. No soup for you." We're not doing that, right?

We're not taking that approach, but we are saying, at least internally, we're saying, okay, I'm not going to follow up with this person, necessarily. I may keep them in terms of getting ongoing emails or things like that.

I may check in or may have someone else check in with them every now and then. But I'm not looking at this as being a deal that's going to get done, unless something significantly changes.

So you leave the door open, but if they come back six months or a year later, things are probably going to be entirely different anyway, right?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: Somebody tells you they want to buy something and then they come back six months later? Maybe the pricing has gone up. I might not even be offering it anymore. Maybe things have changed. So a lot can happen.

Kevin: Maybe it's discontinued. Yeah. Who knows?

David: So I feel like leaving open loops, even for prospects, is not a great idea. To let them know, "okay, well it sounds like you're not ready to move forward at this point. If you'd like to reach out, at your convenience, that's fine to do that. At this point, I won't follow up with you unless you think you'd like me to call you at a certain point in time.

And then you decide whether or not it makes sense for you to call them at that certain point in time, because it doesn't always make sense to do that.

Kevin: We've all been guilty of what we're talking about today. I think we've all have had a lot of unfinished business, a lot on our to-do list. I can definitely think of times where I have maybe finished something imperfectly just so that I can get it off my plate.

What do you feel about that? Like, is it important from a psychological standpoint to make sure it's done right the first time? Or can you kind of get through it and still feel like you've accomplished something?

David: Yeah, I think you're better off getting something good out today than something perfect si

I've been having conversations over the past couple of weeks about this very topic of creating certainty in uncertain times. So much of it boils down to the specific steps I can put in place in my business. Reach out to the right people, say the right things, in the right order, consistently. That will not only improve your confidence in yourself. It will improve their confidence in you and their certainty that you can do the job for them.

David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I will be discussing creating certainty in uncertain times. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Great to see you again, David. Wow, uncertain times. There's an understatement of the year, huh?

David: Yeah. There's been so much discussion on the forums and inside the social media groups and everything like that. A lot of people are uncertain about a lot of things, and that does not generally bode well for businesses.

Kevin: No, no, it definitely doesn't. So what does it really mean to create certainty? When everything around you feels unstable.

David: Yeah. We had talked in a previous podcast about our circles of influence. Like the things we can control and the things we can't. It really does circle back in a lot of ways to this.

When we talk about creating certainty, we can only ever do that within the realms that we control. We can create certainty in specific aspects of our business.

So when we're talking about things like tariffs, which obviously is a big topic these days, a lot of our clients are in the promotional products industry, and a lot of that product tends to come from overseas. Much of it is coming from China.

So in those situations, we're not able to create certainty with that, right? That's not within our sphere of influence. So what we can do and what our clients can do is to look at the specific things we can create certainty around.

Can we identify suppliers who are can provide products for us that are not impacted by that?

Can we look at more domestic suppliers? What are the specific things we can do to create a level of certainty for our customers? Something our competitors might not be able to provide?

Kevin: And I think there's a level of authenticity too that has to go with it, right? Because certainty you can sort of project certainty. but you don't want to pretend to have all the answers when you don't. So how do you balance that?

David: Yeah, you can't really fake certain, well, I guess you can fake certainty.

Kevin: You can try. Yeah,

David: You can pretend you're certain, but I'm not really talking about that.

I think there's certainly an air of confidence that you want to be able to convey to your clients, and sometimes when you're conveying confidence, you may still not be certain about things.

But in this conversation, I'd like to look at, okay, what are the things that we can do? What can we be certain of? You know, are we certain that we can help our clients? And if so, how are we certain that we can help our clients?

What are the things that we know that we can do that will help them? And if it's about sourcing things that are more in line with exactly what they're looking for, trying to get around the obstacles for our clients.

If we're certain we can do those types of things. Just identifying the very specific steps that we can take, what can we be certain about, and then focus on those things.

Kevin: You mentioned that, a lot of our listeners are in the promotional product space. There's still a lot of uncertainty that's coming our way. A lot of flipping and flopping going on with tariffs and whatnot. What do you recommend businesses do to sort of like help prep?

David: Well, first thing you should do is recognize that your clients are not unaware of this. Like they are aware of the fact that this stuff's going on.

Kevin: Right.

David: And I've talked to a lot of business owners recently who are just really concerned, what am I going to tell my customers? And I'm like, well, your customers, they know that this is not, your issue is not your fault.

So, where we have to focus our attention is on the levers that we can pull, the buttons that we can push, what are the things that we can do that will allow them to get the result they're looking for?

Because ultimately, regardless of what industry you're in, it's usually not about the products you're selling, it's about the result that your customers are looking to get.

So when you're able to have conversations with your customers about what they're looking to accomplish, what they're looking to have happen in their business, what end result they're looking to get from using your products, get them focused back on that, and then see if you can create the ROI that they're looking for based on the options that are available today.

Because when I talk about creating certainty, I don't mean pretending things aren't happening. I'm not saying we argue with what's actually going on.

I'm saying that we look at what's happening and we say, alright, what are the steps that I can take as a business owner or as a sales person to help my client to get the result they're looking for, regardless of the fact that all these things are happening. Because they're happening, there's no way around that.

So we look at the things that we can do and we focus on that, and we focus on conveying that. Because if they don't know, that we're able to help them in ways that other people aren't, then they're not going to be able to choose us.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: And I can virtually guarantee you that most businesses are not taking the time to educate their clients about what they're doing, to continue to create a positive experience for them.

Kevin: That's a really good point. Communicating with your clients during these times can put you above other people that aren't doing that makes you look a little more professional For sure.

How much of an impact does this idea of certainty do you think have on the buyer's decision of whether to purchase a product or not?

David: Well, I think the certainty and the confidence go together. The more confident you are in communicating to your clients, the more faith they're going to have in you.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: And again, I'm not talking about faking it, pretending, "oh yeah, hey, I can do it." And there are people...

Kevin: We can get anything!

David: Yeah. You can spot that a mile away. Most people can. It's like, oh, okay. I don't buy into this. Right, right. I'm not talking about fake certainty or any of that. I'm basically saying that if you're able to communicate with people honestly.

Let them know, okay, look, everybody knows what's going on in the market in terms of the tariffs and everything like that. There's no way we can get around that. But here are a few things that I was thinking...

And if you were to have 2, 3, 4 things that convey to them that you've actually thought about it, you've come up with a few things that can help them and you can get their feedback on it.

So if you talk to 'em about how do you feel about domestically made products, they'll tell you. Yeah okay. Well, I was thinking that too. You know, of course it's generally likely to be a little more expensive, but if the quality's better, and then you have those conversations.

And then you'll have some clients who say, I'm just not going to pay that much for that particular kind of product. Then you look at what your options are, and you might not be able to help those people right now, but you'll know.

And I think that's really the big thing, because one of the major problems that a lot of distributors have when things are uncertain is they get scared and they hide and they don't communicate and they don't sell anything and then they blame the economy.

Right? And that is not a good combination of actions.

Kevin: No, definitely not. You've mentioned like educating your clients, we've all seen those emails that pop through that are so over the top, that are like "tariff proof" or " we've got it covered" or "we can do that." How do you recommend people handle their messaging?

Because you don't want to overdo it. You don't want to oversell it, 'cause then you start to look, like you said, like you're lying about it.

How do you balance building that trust, building that certainty with kind of reeling it back a little bit and being realistic.

David: Yeah. I think it goes to what I was saying earlier. You've gotta be honest about it. You've gotta be just absolutely truthful in what you are able to do and how you're able to do it.

The how is important as well, because when people make overblown claims in ads or in texts or in emails or whatever it is that they're doing. If it's overblown, people are going to question it.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: And so one of the things that you want to make sure you're doing is having a why attached to it and a how attached to it.

It's like, yes, here's how we're getting around tariff issues for our clients. We've got a three step program for addressing this issue. Right? And then you outline what those three steps are.

You say, if you'd like to know more, give me a call on this number or reply back to this email. So you get the people who are interested enough to reply back, and then you're entering into conversations, which is the whole goal, right?

The goal of any outbound marketing that you do is to get people engaged with you.

So when you're able to do that on a consistent basis, you have those conversations, you explain what it is that you're doing and how you're doing it. You'll get feedback from that.

And if the feedback that you get is yeah, your first one, that sounds right. The second one, I'm not sure about, the third one, that sounds pretty good too.

Then when you get off the phone with that person, you say, okay,...

Anytime there is any sort of issue in your business that’s not quite going the way it should, don't sabotage your sales success. Instead, just ask yourself, is this because the process that I have in place is not working? Or is it because the person who is supposed to be following the process just didn’t do it?

David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and will be discussing How Businesses Sabotage their Sales. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Good to see you, David. How you been?

David: Been doing great. It's good to see you too.

Kevin: Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to talk about this. So, sabotaging sales, what do you mean by that, when you say businesses are sabotaging their sales?

David: You know, I had some experiences recently and I'm like, did they intend to do this? Is this what they were trying to do? Did they set out to do this when they were doing it. One of the experiences I had recently was I was going to buy a pair of earbuds, right?

And there's a particular brand of earbuds that I like. It's not the ones that would normally leap to mind. It's another one. But a good brand, they work really well. And I got a text from them saying that they were having a sale. And I was like, okay, cool. Maybe I'll buy an extra pair of earbuds even though I don't need them.

And so in the link that they sent me, they said, click through and you get 35% off. I'm like, cool. So I click through the link and it takes me to a picture of what I think are the earbuds that they're selling, and it says 20% off, with a certain promo code.

And I'm like, okay, well I'm looking for the 35% off, but there was a different promo code in the text, so I'm like, okay, I'll just plug the correct promo code and it'll work. Right?

So finally figured out how to do that. No, it said this is not applicable to this particular product. So I'm like, okay. But they had some sort of chat person or chat being or chat AI, I don't know what it was.

Kevin: Chat AI agent. Yeah.

David: Yeah. Something not quite what I thought it might be, but. I thought, okay, well I'll ask the question. And none of the answers that I got were relevant to what I was asking. And I was like, I'm here. I've got my wallet open.

Kevin: I'm ready to buy!

David: I want to buy exactly the thing that you sent me a text to, and you're making it hard. Why are you making it so hard?

Kevin: Yeah.

David: And it replied quickly to a lot of questions and then, it was just like ghosting. It's like, okay, I didn't hear anything back. So I'm like, I'm like, are you AI? And I didn't get an answer. I thought if it was AI, it would at least tell me it was AI.

So, I didn't get to order that day. The next day I tried again. I actually reached out to their customer support, had another non-experience there. But eventually I was able to figure out that apparently there were two sets of this earbud in a similar color, and the link took you to the wrong one and applied the wrong link. And so that's why it was saying it was wrong.

And I didn't care about the color. I was like, I wouldn't have normally bought this color, but it was 35% off, so I was like...

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, whatever.

David: Right.

Kevin: Earbuds.

David: Anyway, long story short is what should have taken three to five minutes and been an exceptional experience took a whole lot longer and diminished my passion for this particular product.

So I thought, you know, there are a lot of businesses that do this sort of thing, and the words that leap to my mind is that they're sabotaging their own sales, which is kind of the purpose of this conversation.

Not for me to vent, but for us to talk about what businesses can do about it.

Kevin: Well, I'm glad you got that off your chest, David.

David: Thanks.

Kevin: It's probably something you needed to do.

David: I feel a lot better.

Kevin: Good, good, good. Well, so like in more of a general sense, what are some of the most common ways you see businesses do that? Sabotage their own sales efforts.

David: As I was thinking about it, I thought, well, first off is the process, right? In this particular experience, it's the process. The process is I send you a link to a specific place that could and should apply exactly that product at exactly that discount so that I could just check out and buy it.

If they had done just that, I would've had no problems and I would've said, "wow, that was great. Let's do this again soon."

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: So the first thing was the process. The second thing was kind of process related, but it involved potential people, which was the chat experience, which I'm still not sure if that was part of the process or if that was a person thing.

I'm not sure who blew it in that situation, but I thought, okay, you got your process and you got your people, and so generally it's going to be one of those two things.

Is it your process that's messing things up or is it the people who are implementing the process that are messing things up?

It's hard to know sometimes.

Kevin: Right.

David: But in most businesses, if you've got solid processes in place, then most of your people will be able to do their job well. And when they're not doing their job well, you can look at is the problem with the process or is the problem with the person?

Because if everybody's implementing the same processes and they're good processes, then everything should go well.

If things are going wrong, those are the two primary things you have to look at.

Kevin: Do you think business owners recognize that they're doing this and just are like, eh, whatever, or do you think they're just kind of clueless?

David: I think they're not doing it on purpose, and I hesitate to call them clueless, but I think that they are not really planning on doing this.

Kevin: Yeah.

David: Now, with a company like this, that is, I would say primarily an online entity, they should really have this stuff dialed in and nailed down.

A lot of the small businesses that we work with, they are doing their day-to-day thing. They're building processes as they can. They're essentially trying to put things in place based on what works well in their business.

In a lot of cases, small to medium sized businesses are not as focused on building processes so that they don't have to think about every single thing they do.

So to some extent, in the types of businesses that we work with, I think that's the thing that slows them down. That's not really their focus.

If they're doing things well, then they're doing things well. And if somebody's blowing something, somebody's blowing something. But without those processes, you don't get that consistency, which can also sabotage your sales.

Kevin: Yeah, and it's something that like, my friends know that I complain about the user experience on a lot of apps and websites and things like that all the time.

And the word that always people use is friction. And if you create too much friction, there's just so many options now. There's a lot of people who make earbuds. So like, you stuck it out for maybe longer than the average person, because you already liked the brand.

But if someone's more new to it, they're gone.

David: That's exactly right. And I think for the types of businesses that we interact with, a lot of the thinking process that needs to go into it is, what is the experience that my people are having? What happens if somebody calls my businesses?

Do they go to voicemail? Do they get an auto attendant? Does somebody answer the phone? What happens? What's the follow up process? How quickly are they likely to get a return call or whatever the experience is there.

When they're emailing, what happens? When they're texting, what happens? And just by looking at the primary points of contact, you can come up with a lot of ideas that will very likely make your business perform better.

Kevin: Mm-hmm. Are there other ways people, you know, businesses can sabotage their sales? Less software processes, but more like internal processes, like sporadic outreach, inconsistency, things like not being present.

Can you talk about some other ways businesses self-sabotage?

David: Yeah. All of the above. Everything you just said. And they all do fall under the headings of either process slash systems or people, right?

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

David: So all the different things that you mentioned, they certainly sabotage businesses if you're not conscious of each of those things.

Kevin: You mentioned before you don't think they're doing it on purpose, but how can a functioning business have such poor sales approach or efforts or I don't know, it seems like that should be more dialed in.

David: Yeah. And I think a lot of it has to do with the focus, particularly in small and medium sized businesses. They're not thinking that way. It's like every day there's something going on in the business that I have to address. And when you're busy putting out fires, it's hard to build infrastructure.

Kevin: So then, does it come down to the people you bring on?

David: Everything ultimately boils down to the people you bring on. But it also boils down to how are these people being trained? Am I showing them the right things to do? Are the processes that I'm giving them, do they make sense? Do they allow that person to create the experience that I'm looking to create?

A lot of times in business when you're looking to grow things, one of the things you have to ask yourself is not just how do I want to do things, but how do I want things done in this particular business?

So when we're working with clients, a lot of times there's a business owner who's really good at doing things and they have trouble getting the people in the organizations to be able to do them as well.

And so one of the things that we work on is helping

It's not always easy to get information from clients. If you're in a situation where you have good relationships with your clients, but you're struggling to get the information you need from them, there are very specific things that you can do that will help you to accomplish that a lot faster and a lot more organically. It'll just feel better when you're doing it right, and they'll be a lot more likely to help you with it.

David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I will be discussing getting information out of clients. Welcome back, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey, welcome back to you too. I'm really excited to talk about this because let's be honest, like we're all very conscious of the fact that everyone wants our information, so it's a bit of a struggle sometimes.

David: Yeah, it really is. And when we're looking at trying to extract information from clients, sometimes it's like trying to pull teeth. Or trying to get the information that we need to either advance the sale or to be able to get an order completed and that sort of thing. And it can definitely be challenging.

Kevin: Yeah, no doubt. How much of it do you think is how people ask for the information? Instead of saying like, give me this. Is it better to kind of think about it in more of a storytelling narrative kind of way to pull things out?

David: That's a great question. I think a lot of it depends on your personality and the way that you communicate with people.

Many salespeople, many of the best salespeople, I think are natural storytellers. You ask them what time it is and it starts with a story. Right? So...

Kevin: Well, it all started back when I was eight.

David: Let's talk about time, shall we?

Kevin: Yeah.

David: Yeah, so I think it can take that form. I think there are also situations, a lot of times, where we know what we need to get from them, and sometimes if we're just going for it all the time, that can come across as a little too pushy in some ways.

So I think there's a natural give and take that needs to happen, so that people can feel engaged with us.

If they feel engaged in the conversation, if they feel that we're listening to them, paying attention to what they need, and that's woven in with getting the next piece of information that I need without coming across like an interrogator.

Like I'm going to shine a light on you. It's like the third degree in the cop movies. Right? If it feels like that, they're gone.

But when you're able to just engage them and let them know that you care about getting them a result, then they're a lot more likely to be free with the information.

Kevin: Obviously at the front end of a sales cycle, it's more basic information and it keeps going, getting more detailed as things go on. Should people change their approach as they go on from first contacting someone to maybe having a warm or even hot lead?

David: Definitely, and I think you raised exactly the right point there, which is that it does generally start out more general and then it gets more and more specific as you're getting down to it.

Sometimes salespeople will lead with things like, what's your budget? Right? Which is kind of intrusive, right?

Kevin: Yeah. That's the one, right?

David: You don't need to ask me about my budget if I'm not buying anything from you, right?

Kevin: Yeah, yeah. What's your budget? What's your timeline? Right? Isn't that what everybody always says first?

David: Yeah. And that's not the kind of thing that generally needs to come first.

Initially, what needs to happen is they need to feel some sort of connection. They need to have a clear idea of what you do, how you can help them, and all that sort of thing.

So I think a lot of times, in the early stages of a relationship when we're first meeting a prospect, it is information gathering from us, but it's about trying to find out what they need, what they're looking for, where they have issues, where they have problems that we can potentially help.

And some of that can feel intrusive if we're not doing it well, if we're not doing it correctly. But when we're doing it right, it feels very natural.

If they understand that we are really there to provide them with a result that they're looking for --and if we can provide it, we will, and if we can't provide it, we'll tell them that.

If they feel like the relationship is open enough in the early stages to accomplish that, they'll be a lot more likely to have those conversations

Kevin: I think a lot of times any salesperson will want to focus on customer pain points. Obviously that's an important thing. What's a good approach for that?

Instead of going like, Hey, what's your pain points? What is a better approach to kind of pulling out that information naturally?

David: I think a lot of it is just about trying to figure out, again, going from more general to more specific, trying to identify whether or not there is any sort of need on the client's behalf.

Because if there's not, if they don't need what we're selling, then we don't have to drill down too much. We can very often find that out earlier on in the conversation, and we can disqualify them.

In the last podcast, we were talking about different levels of qualification, so I think a lot of that should happen at that point.

If we're able to disqualify someone very quickly. Let's say you meet somebody at a networking function. You're having a conversation and you're talking about what they do and how they do it. And during that conversation you recognize that this is probably not a prospect for me, this is not the person in the organization who buys what I'm selling or whatever.

So at that point, you can switch gears and say, Hey, listen, who in your organization does this or that? And then you can get referred to that person. You can take that over there and say, all right, maybe I can have a more of a qualification conversation with that person. And then get down into the nitty gritty with them.

I think a lot of problems that salespeople run into come from the fact that they dive into sales presentations before they ever qualify or disqualify the client.

Kevin: Yeah.

David: I've had so many conversations with salespeople who talked about the fact that they couldn't get an appointment with a person before they even knew whether or not that person was worthy of an appointment. Before they even knew whether or not they were qualified to do business with them.

Very often, you can find something like that out in a phone conversation or via email in a matter of minutes, rather than wasting a lot of time, setting up an appointment, going out, meeting the person, and then finding out that they're not qualified.

I learned that one pretty early on in my sales career because I thought the goal was to get the appointment.

So I would try to get appointments with people, and then when I got those appointments, I'd be in front of them and find out, wow, I should not have wasted my time driving to this person's place and meeting them.

I think a lot of it, is about that. It's about qualifying quickly and correctly upfront so that we can spend the most time with the people who are actually qualified to do business with us.

Kevin: Is that just because we feel that if we can get in front of somebody that we're more likely to close a deal? Like because face-to-face has so much value?

David: I think a lot of it has to do with that, and I think a lot of it is training. A lot of people have just been trained that this is what you need to do, go for the appointment.

Again, that's what I did in the early stages, because that's what I was taught to do.

Kevin: Yeah, I've done it, too. Yeah.

David: But when you recognize that time spent with a qualified prospect is worth 10 times or a hundred times more than it is with an unqualified prospect, you quickly realize that you can create 10 x the results, 20 x the results, 50 x the results when you are able to disqualify.

I use the analogy, it's like the old game we used to play in kindergarten, musical chairs, right?

So you got all the kids and you got all the chairs, and there's one less chair than there are kids. And the music starts and everybody's walking around in a circle and then the music stops, and then everybody has to scramble to find a seat.

Kevin: That's when you put elbows out and you get that chair, right?

David: Yeah, that's right. And whoever doesn't get a seat, they're out. It's a cruel game for kids.

Kevin: It kind of is, really.

David: But in sales, man, it's almost worse when you are the salesperson, because a lot of times prospects like to do that with salespeople.They like to elbow you out, but...

Kevin: Right.

David: The way that I like to approach it is to say I'm far better off if I'm going to be approaching 10 people, I'd like to be able to eliminate six, seven, or eight of them so I can spend the time with the other two or three, and actually make the sale.

I sort of flipped the script on that and say, all right, how can I disqualify the poor quality prospects as quickly as possible, so that we can then interact with those who are willing to share the information we need to be able to get that sale going.

Kevin: A lot of salespeople like to talk. I've known a lot of them in my day, and a lot of them just, they love to dominate the conversation. But obviously you need to listen, like a lot, when you're talking to a prospect.

How do you help people or how do you talk to people about balancing, being informative, but sitting back and letting the client talk.

David: I think a lot of salespeople have to recognize that if you're doing most of the talking, you're probably not going to be selling as much as you can sell.

Kevin: Right.

David: Especially in the early stages,...