Tough Things First

A start-up entrepreneur who is hunting for followers, likes, and popularity, but can’t achieve profitability, is falling victim to his or her own ego. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn offers a realistic view of this pre-profit folly.

Rob Artigo: Well, we have another great question from a San Jose State University student, part of the ZinnStarter program. This student asks, “What early metrics matter most before revenue starts?”

Ray Zinn: Well, having a good team is a metric. Having a good culture, meaning that you have the how do you want your company to look and be perceived by not only your customers, but by your suppliers, by your employees. So having that is a good metric. And then if you’re a people person. Are you a good leader? Are people willing to follow you or do you have to drive them? Are you going to be a hard-nosed boss, or are you going to be one that’s a loving, kind and persuasive boss? Lastly, make sure you have the resources to actually bring your idea, your concept to reality.

Rob Artigo: Do you think people get bogged down and really obsessed with vanity metrics like website traffic or social media followers before they even have a single paying customer?

Ray Zinn: Yeah, I think they do. They think that’s a good measure. That wasn’t available when I started Micrel back in 1978 because we didn’t have that capability. But I think now that determines whether or not we think we’re successful is by our followers. And of course, a good leader has lots of good followers, but why are they following you? You should understand that. Looking at the reason why they follow you and make sure it’s for a positive reason, not just negative.

Rob Artigo: You bring up a really good point is that back in the day when you started Micrel, it didn’t exist. I mean, the likes you got were the people who called you on the phone. That was the feedback you got was, did somebody shake your hand? Did somebody say hi? Did they walk up to you when you were in public somewhere and introduce themselves and be like, okay, so that’s the recognition you get. Now it’s people really do focus on that even in their personal lives so much to the point of it being a fault and not a good metric in terms of being determining whether or not you should keep on doing whatever it is you’re doing in your startup.

Ray Zinn: Well, and if they’re follow on orders. In other words, are your customers continually coming back? That’s another way you can measure your success as a company.

Rob Artigo: And we’re talking obviously here about pre-profitability, pre-income. Some people not even having a single dollar coming in the door yet from a customer, and we’re talking about how many likes you get on social media or who’s following your videos that you’re posting on whatever platform is out there. And it seems like there are metrics that people deliberately ignore, and they focus on that kind of stuff and they deliberately ignore some things. What do you think? Are they metrics that people sometimes go out of their way not to address pre-profitability?

Ray Zinn: Well, not they got a big head. I mean, if you think your idea is the greatest since Swiss cheese, it probably isn’t. And so you got to be humble. Humble means you’re teachable and you’re caring and you’re kind and you can tell that just by how people respond to you. So the most important thing is have a good following of people who really love and respect you.

Rob Artigo: If you’re trying to get your program on track and you’re a pre-revenue founder of a company, is there anything that you can start doing right now that might make a difference in that process of addressing the proper metrics?

Ray Zinn: Yeah. Talk to your friends. If you’re wanting some honest input, ask your friends about certain things. Ask them the questions that like we’re talking about today. Get their input. See what they think about you as a leader and whether or not they think you have the drive and initiative to see the company to fruition.

Rob Artigo: We’ve done a whole series of podcasts here with questions from San Jose State students who are part of the ZinnStarter Program. And obviously those questions have really played well in this series of podcasts. So we are going to hopefully get more of those, but we’re also inviting our other listeners to chime in, give us their questions as well. We can make a whole podcast around a question. We’ll even drop you a thanks here on the podcast. So please do that, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Exactly, please. If you have questions like these students have, feel free to drop them into the comments.

Rob Artigo: We’ve heard some incredibly practical advice here on The Tough Things First Podcast today. The early days are the hardest days, and getting these metrics right dramatically increases your odds of success. Thanks for listening to The Tough Things First Podcast. If you are in the pre-revenue stage, start tracking the right metrics this week. Drop your biggest early stage challenges in the comments, subscribe. Share this episode, and we’ll see you next time where we always do the tough things first here on The Tough Things First Podcast. Right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Exactly. Thanks for sharing.

“Do The Tough Things First” is Ray Zinn’s motto. Part of that is asking yourself the tough questions first. In this podcast, Ray Zinn explores what signals show that your are the problem and you are the bottleneck in your own startup.

Rob Artigo: We have another great question from a San Jose State University student who is part of the ZinnStarter program, your program that you founded. He or she asks, “What signals show that I’m becoming the bottleneck in my own startup?”

Ray Zinn: That’s part of doing the tough things first. You’ll read that in our book, The Tough Things, and also The Essential Leader. So those two books actually cover this topic.

Ray Zinn Cont: So how do you recognize when you’re becoming the bottleneck is when you start rejecting others’ ideas and comments, when you think that you know it all and you’re starting to get people turned off. In other words, they refuse to innovate, help you. They’re losing enthusiasm. They’re coming in to work late, going home early.

So that’s the sign that you have become the bottleneck, is when you see that you’ve lost your team.

Rob Artigo: Nobody wants to think of themselves as the bottleneck either. It’s like if they’re the problem, all they’re doing is seeing everybody else as being the problem, but they’re not recognizing that they might be the problem, correct?

Ray Zinn: Exactly. No, that’s the key. I mean, if you don’t see your role as an encourager, as a grateful leader of your company, then you have become the bottleneck.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. I heard somebody, pretty smart guy, recently tell me that he was out doing something, and one minute he’s running into somebody who’s not cooperating and they’re being a jerk, and now he’s kind of upset. And then he’s driving down the road and then somebody cuts him off, and that person’s a jerk. And then the next thing you know, somebody else is a jerk.

And then at the end of the day, he said he’s sitting there thinking to himself, “Hmm. I wonder if it wasn’t me who was the jerk all day long.”

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

Rob Artigo: So why do so many smart founders fail to see that they’ve become the bottleneck? What’s the wall that they put up that they just fail to see that maybe they’re the one who’s being the jerk?

Ray Zinn: They’re not a people person. All they can see is the nose and their face. They’re up against the mirror. They’re not stepping back and looking at the whole picture. They’re not a people person. To be a good leader, you have to be a people person.

Rob Artigo: And that’s not always very easy to do because you… do you think you have to start out as a people person, or can you develop that as a leader as you go along? I know that The Essential Leader, your book, discusses this a lot, which is, the interpersonal relationships we have with people are as important, if not more important, than most other aspects of doing business.

Ray Zinn: Yeah. Can you be a people person? Well, obviously there are people who are naturally people people, but you can learn to be if you’re willing to accept the fact that you’re lacking that talent. You have to, first of all, ask yourself, “Am I a people person?” If it’s obvious, people want to be around you, they want to be associated with you, then you’re a people person.

If you don’t have a lot of friends, if you don’t see a lot of people wanting to be involved with you, then you’re not. And you can change, but it’s harder to change than if you’re naturally a people person.

Rob Artigo: Pretty much everything, every book you’ve written has at some point included the fact that you have to be very honest with yourself, look at yourself in the mirror, and really do a self-assessment. And it sounds like this is a definite self-assessment kind of situation.

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

Rob Artigo: Well, Ray, we have more questions. On the next podcast, we’ll let another student from San Jose State University ZinnStarter program ask another great question. And these have been fantastic podcasts based on those really great questions. Are you hoping to get more questions like this?

Ray Zinn: Yes.

Rob Artigo: Thanks for listening to the Tough Things First podcast. If you’re feeling like the bottleneck in your startup, take an honest look and start delegating this week. That means get other people involved, you can’t do everything yourself. Drop your experiences in the comment section here, subscribe, and share this episode with another founder who needs to hear it.

Ray Zinn: They can also ask their own question too. They don’t have to be a ZinnStarter student to ask a question. So feel free to ask a question in the comment section.

Rob Artigo: Exactly. Dive deeper with Ray’s books, Tough Things First, and, as we’ve talked about here, The Essential Leader, as well as the Zen of Zinn series. If this episode resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Until next time, do the tough things first, starting with owning and fixing your mistakes, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Yeah. Do it daily, though, not just monthly.

People who start businesses can be fooled into thinking turn and burn, short term plans make them entrepreneurs. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn dives into another great question from a ZinnStarter college student.

Rob Artigo: Once again, another question coming from San Jose State University, another great ZinnStarter student, and this student is asking, how do you build a company for the long term instead of building to be acquired?

Ray Zinn: We’ve talked about this before, but thank you for your question. Building it for the long term, it takes a different point of view. Whatever it is, whatever idea or concept you have, make sure it has legs, legs meaning that it has a chance to live or sustain itself beyond a couple of years.

Ray Zinn Cont: As statistics show, nine out of 10 companies fail within the first three years, and not only because they don’t have the money, but because their product doesn’t have legs. And so if your idea is to get in and get out, you can do that, but that’s not going to make you an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs have legs. In other words, they have sustainability. They’re not just in it for the short term.

And so I would caution anyone who is considering starting a company: if they’re just doing it for the short term, I would suggest you keep your day job.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. And you had the idea that you wanted to not just build a company, but that you wanted to be part of it and run it for, well, make it your career. It was a long-term plan for you. Do you think that these folks should sit down and say, “Am I in this for one year, or am I trying to build something that I can look down the road 37 years from now,” like you did, “and say, ‘Wow, I did something pretty special here”?

Ray Zinn: Well, you know, what I did, I didn’t have a product idea like, I’m going to come up with this super-duper AI tool. And what I did is I said, “I want to build a company that lasts, that endures.” And so that was my idea. And I know that sounds strange.

And so what I did is I said, “Okay, I’m going to build an enduring company in the semiconductor industry.” That was the idea. It was not that I’m going to be coming up with this great patented, super-duper idea and run it out. It was really, my goal was to build an ideal company that could endure and do it in an industry that I was happy to be in and wanted to be in.

But I did not have a great product idea. I did not have a great concept of some patentable, fantastic, off-the-rails technology. It was, I wanted to build the ideal company in the semiconductor industry. That was my goal, and it worked out.

Rob Artigo: And in that process, you learned a lot of lessons, but how do you keep innovating over decades without losing focus as a company?

Ray Zinn: That should be part of your focus, is to keep innovating and keep improving. If you look at just over time how things have improved over time, you got to, as they say, move the cheese. You got to find out where the next move is, where do you pivot? And so you’re constantly innovating. You’re reading the tea leaves. You’re constantly looking at, “How can I keep my company viable and capable over the long term?” And so it is an ongoing, everyday, daily, innovative process to build an enduring company.

Rob Artigo: So for our listeners who want to build a lasting company like Micrel, I mean, you ran it for 37 years, and there’s no doubt nobody could argue that wasn’t a lasting company all the way up to the point of acquisition, and it still exists in some form today based on its history. So what should entrepreneurs who are trying to build a lasting company start doing this week that can help make sure that they have a lasting company?

Ray Zinn: Come up with the culture that you want to have in your company: the kind of people you want to hire, the kind of products you want to be into, the industry that you feel most comfortable in. Have that firmly in your mind before you launch.

Rob Artigo: There’s nothing wrong with writing it down, too. Sitting down and brainstorming your company culture and then applying it to however big your team is at the time.

Ray Zinn: Exactly. Document it.

Rob Artigo: Document it. And then maybe even put it on the wall somewhere and say, “Hey, what you get in the return is you get the feeling that you’re part of something, not just a cog in the wheel of some crazy machine.”

Ray Zinn: As they say, put it on the mirror in your bathroom.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. Put it on the mirror in your bathroom. Great, valuable perspective, Ray, especially in today’s hype-driven startup world. Thanks for the listeners tuning in to the Tough Things First podcast. If you’re building a company, ask yourself, are you building it to last? Drop your thoughts in the comments. Subscribe. Share this with the founder who needs to hear it. Perhaps you’re the one who needs to hear it, and that’s okay. We’ll see you next time here on the Tough Things First podcast where we do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Exactly. Go, tough things.

President Trump’s recent state visit to China shows some promise, but where does it fall short? In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explores the politics and the economics. (Watch Now…)

Ray Zinn: Hello, Rob.

Rob Artigo: Ray, this is a special edition of the Tough Things First Podcast where we are also on video, so our listeners can choose to watch it if they will by clicking the link, at toughthingsfirst.com. Just navigate to this podcast and you’re all set. Today we’re talking about President Trump’s recent state visit to China and what it means to American businesses. Let’s just jump right into that Ray. From May 13th to the 15th, President Trump met with Xi Jinping in Beijing. Try saying that three times fast. Xi Jinping in Beijing. There were high profile meetings, visits to the temple of heaven and Trump came away talking about fantastic deals, including a big Boeing order and progress on agricultural exports. So what’s your take on this visit from what you’ve seen so far?

Ray Zinn: I think there’s a lot of promises, but not sure about how much is reality. I’ve not seen any final orders or any commitments at this point. In politics, it’s mostly bluster as opposed to reality, and so we have hopes that there is some reality in the bluster, but there’s no guarantee. Like for example, the Boeing order of 200 airplanes, that’s a lot of money, that’s a big deal. Also, about some AI cooperation and other, the purchasing of soybeans. But in any kind of negotiation, whether it be with China or any other country, there’s a give and take. I heard a lot about the take from President Trump of what we’re going to take away from the visit, but I don’t know what we’re giving. And unless we give something, I’m not sure there’s much taking involved.

I know that most of the time was spent on the Taiwan issue and whether or not the United States was going to now honor that order in September for those arms deals with Taiwan. I have a suspicion, although I don’t know that for a fact, I have a suspicion that was one of the things that Xi Jinping asked, was for us not to fulfill that order. So that’s a take from us to China, is the commitment not to honor that order from Taiwan. And as I said in the beginning, in any deal, there’s always a give and take and you’re not going to get something unless you’re willing to give something in return. So as I said, there’s that give and take. And I heard a lot about what President Trump got out of the deal, but I don’t see any hard copies of purchase orders. And then I think that by the same token, President Xi Jinping probably asked Trump not to honor that order for arms out of Taiwan.

And so I think it’s a wait and see, I think maybe in September, maybe, that if there’s no arms approval and no sales to Taiwan, then maybe Xi Jinping will then place those orders for those Boeing aircraft and those soybeans and some of those AI opportunities. So again, I think it’s the take, take, take, and not the give, give, give, is what’s going on here. And China is a big adversary of the United States, at least economically, if not militarily. It’s a wait and see in my mind.

Rob Artigo: You mentioned the idea of talks about a trade deal and then you talked about the takes but not the gives, and maybe the gives are just not spoken about yet. Maybe they’re part of the deal-

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

Rob Artigo: But not spoken about.

Ray Zinn: Yeah.

Rob Artigo: It wasn’t what we’d call a sweeping new trade deal anyway, there’s still tariffs involved apparently, there are technology restrictions, and of course, you mentioned Taiwan, so there are geopolitical tensions. How should American companies approach China right now? I mean, I realize that we have to deal with governments on both sides when we’re dealing with trade between the two countries and the individual companies need to navigate all that. How should American companies approach China right now?

Ray Zinn: It’s the big E, Economics, it depends upon what kind of an economic relationship you can have and how long term that economic relationship is. So if your economic relationship is six months to a year, I think it’s okay, but if it’s like three to five years, I wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole.

Rob Artigo: Wow. Yeah.

Ray Zinn: So as you say, the give and take, my takeaway is there was a lot of arm wrestling and bluster and pomp and ceremony and all that goes into politics. So it was a political meeting, it was not an economic one in my opinion. Developing a good relationship with your adversary is good. They say, hold your friends close, but your enemy’s even closer. And so I think that having a closer, closer, closer relationship with China is good, as long as we all understand what the issues are that we’re keeping close to our best as you would. So again, my opinion is nothing’s going to happen with China giving anything until it’s clear to China that the United States is not going to support the arms deal with Taiwan.

Rob Artigo: Okay. Final question here deals with business owners and executives who are having to deal with China or will at some point deal with China. What do they do in the coming months to protect what is there? So intellectual property, certainly cybersecurity patents and supply chains are all non-negotiables, right?

Ray Zinn: I assume that there’s no protection. It’s just like if you were to fly to Iran right now as a US citizen, assume there’s no protection. And so if I were dealing with China, like I did back when I was running Micrel, I had to assume that that was not going to get any reciprocity and protection.

Rob Artigo: Wow. Great insights, Ray, as always, and so thanks for breaking that down for us.

So that’s Ray Zinn, I’m Rob Artigo, thanks for listening to the Tough Things First Podcast or watching under the circumstance, whether you did or didn’t, if you want to, you can. Join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com, your questions and comments are always welcome. Follow Ray on X, Facebook and LinkedIn. And of course, pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First, The Essential Leader: 10 Skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals that make up the essential leader. And of course you know about the Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three, which now includes the new book, Zen of Zinn Daily. If you haven’t read it today yet, pick it up and read it. Thanks again, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thank you, Rob.

Failure, it is said, is not an option. So why do entrepreneurs make so many first year mistakes? In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn takes a question from a San Jose State Zinn Starter student.

Rob Artigo: Ray, we have a question from one of your awesome ZinnStarter students, this one over at San Jose State University. And he asked the question, “What are the most common mistakes solo founders make in the first year?” Let me phrase this this way is by saying statistics show that a huge percentage of startups fail in the first year or two. And this question’s particularly apt when you think about how brutal those first 12 months can be.

Ray Zinn: The first mistake that a solo entrepreneur makes is being solo. It takes a team to run a company. It’s just like the two heads are better than one. And so if you’re going to be one head running a company, that’s going to get you circular reasoning and you’re not going to succeed. So, the biggest mistake you can make is being a solo entrepreneur.

Now, I know some of you don’t want to share your idea. You’re afraid somebody else will steal it and take off with it. And if that’s your case, then you’re already set for failure. So that’s mistake number one, is trying to be a solo entrepreneur.

Rob Artigo: It’s funny, Ray, that you mentioned it that way is to say that as solo founders, the first mistake is being solo. I wonder if there’s a way to encourage people to think of yourself as solo, but think of yourself as solo as a team that’s working together solo. Is that an oxymoron or does that make sense?

Ray Zinn: That’s an oxymoron. In fact, I’m encouraging now all the schools that have the ZinnStarter program, there’s about seven of them, that as part of the selection process for people to be eligible to be in ZinnStarter is that they have to have a team, meaning they have to have at least one other member of the team. And I’m requiring that now going forward. So, no more solo entrepreneurs.

Now, it doesn’t mean you can’t run a company as a solo entrepreneur, but that’s a big mistake. Okay so mistake number two, as opposed to just being solo, is not having enough money to take you to profitability. Just because your idea is great and wonderful and you think you’re going to make millions of dollars, don’t assume that. Make sure you have enough cash. And if you’re going to do this part-time, that’s another bad mistake. So if you’re going to be at it full-time, make sure that you have the resources to not only run your company, but also provide for your family.

I would say whatever amount of money that is, it’s enough to take you to profitability, whether that be within one month or within three years. Most companies fail within the first three years. And the reason they fail is they run out of money. And then they spend all their time looking for money and then they don’t run their company.

Rob Artigo: And that can get exhausting too. Have you ever seen a situation where the entrepreneur burns out before the money or the company does? They just are just-

Ray Zinn: Oh, yeah.

Rob Artigo: … they’ve worked themselves right into the ground?

Ray Zinn: The average life of a CEO is about three years and that’s for the exact reason, that there’s burnout. I lasted 37 years and that’s why I’m the longest serving CEO. And that’s like 10 times longer, more than 10 times or almost four times, almost 20 times longer than most average CEOs.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. Yeah. And you did that because, well, I mean, obviously you began by doing the tough things first. But you also made sure that the tough things that you did were balanced by family and time away from work and not working. One of your famous quotes is, “You don’t have to work 80 hours a week to be successful.” Right?

Ray Zinn: In fact, if you work 80 hours a week, you won’t be successful.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. So but you-

Ray Zinn: What I mean by successful, you’ll be maybe successful in your company, but you won’t be successful as a husband or a father or a spouse or mother or whatever. You’re not going to be successful in that way. You can’t spend 80 hours a week and still have a family.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. And dollar signs don’t mean you’re winning at life.

Ray Zinn: Oh, thousand percent. I mean, that probably is the least aspect of being successful is dollar signs.

Rob Artigo: Okay. Well, thanks again, Ray. Good stuff there. I’m sure that you’ve saved a lot of listeners painful lessons that they would otherwise face. And some of them are still going to make those mistakes. But thanks again, Ray. I’d like to say thanks to the listeners who tuned into The Tough Things First Podcast.

If you’re a solo founder, maybe you better rethink that and join in with some other people and become a team founder of something that your chances of success are better. Think about it. Drop your biggest challenges in the comments. If you are solo and you challenge that idea, also do that. Subscribe and share this episode with someone who needs it and we’ll see you next time where we do the tough things first here at the podcast. Right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

The Remarkable thing about Ray Zinn is he is a walking library. In this Tough Things First Podcast Ray takes your questions. Watch Now!

Rob Artigo: This is a special edition of the Tough Things First podcast where we are also on video. If you want to watch instead of just listen, you can navigate to toughthingsfirst.com. On the pull down menu, find this podcast. Under podcasts, there is a Watch Now link. You just click that and you go to Ray’s YouTube channel and you’re all set. This is also an extra special edition of the Tough Things First podcast since we have actual questions from college entrepreneurs.

Student 1: Hi, Ray Zinn. I’m Ruby Jackson with A&T Outlet here from WVU. We just wanted to say thank you for all of your support of student entrepreneurs. We couldn’t do this without you, and we’re really happy that we got to participate in the ZinnStarter Pitch Competition, and thank you for the Tough Things First. I can’t wait to learn more about entrepreneurship from you, and I like there’s a handstand here. Thank you.

Rob Artigo: Ray, some of these students have offered their thanks and a question. Ray, tell me about who these kids are and what it means to have them participate in this podcast?

Ray Zinn: Okay. These are students at West Virginia University, and they’re part of the ZinnStarter Entrepreneur Program that’s available to students full-time at the university. Kind of the Shark Tank for a university where these students are allowed to present their ideas to a board of students, and then those students are selected by the board to get funding from ZinnStarter to implement their ideas.

Rob Artigo: All right. Let’s get to the first question here.

Student 2: Hey, Ray Zinn. Nice to meet you. My name’s Carlton Perry. First, I just wanted to say thank you so much for supporting West Virginia University, and on top of that, the LaunchLab, your contributions and just your advice really helps us entrepreneurs here and it really shows. On top of that, I’m actually really looking forward to reading your book. I heard it’s a great book. I heard that you’re a great author on top of that, so I’m ready to see what it’s about and get into that. But my question to you is that in the world of AI, how would you encourage leaders to not let AI get in the way of it clouding human judgment and decision making?

Ray Zinn: That’s a tough one because AI is so pervasive or will be even more pervasive. You can almost have AI be the managers as you would, or bots be the managers. The more the leader lets the bot be the leader or give direction, the less human reaction you’re going to have between the true manager, the human manager of the department as he interacts with his subordinates. The only way that we can prevent AI from actually taking over the role of a supervisor is by having that personal interaction, making sure that there is a personal interaction between the supervisor and the subordinate as opposed to just letting a bot direct the activity.

Rob Artigo: All right. Let’s check out question number two.

Student 3: Hey, Mr. Zinn. I’m Ethan Weaver, and I wanted to thank you for all you’ve done for the Morris L. Hayhurst LaunchLab and for this book especially. I have one question for you. What stands out in the students that you choose to put your time into and invest your money into? What the qualities that stand out for you as an entrepreneur? [inaudible 00:03:42]-

Ray Zinn: Investors, of course, are looking at what kind of return they’re going to get on their investment, and so they’re going to be looking at the market that the idea is being promoted and also the team that’s promoting the idea and also how much longevity there is in the product itself or idea. They’re pretty adept at doing this. I mean, if you look at the statistics, they’re only successful… Like one out of 10 investments actually make them real money, but they do put a lot of effort in understanding the markets. Generally, they are technically experts in those markets, and they know and understand them.

If it looks like that idea has legroom or a runway, then they’ll go ahead and support it. There are various stages. There’s all the way from seed money, all the way to end-of-life money that investors put money into ideas. You can be at early stage or you can be at late stage. It depends, again, what kind of investor you’re looking for. If you’re looking for an early-stage investor, they’re very much focused on the runway or the legroom of the idea. Whereas the later stage, they’re looking at the history and the performance of the company if they intend to invest at a later stage of the company.

Rob Artigo: The other part of that question was for you personally, when you have somebody talking to you about what their project they’re working on, do you look at their idea… The person who’s presenting it first? I mean, are you investing in the person or the idea first?

Ray Zinn: Well, we’re looking at both. We’re looking at the student because they’re the ones that are going to be implementing the idea, and then of course the idea itself. But I’ve seen great ideas, but not particularly students that have that energy and that passion to see it through. I can tell by the way they make the presentation whether or not they’re going to be a successful entrepreneur. The idea in the ZinnStarter is not so much so important, it is in training or developing the student. The purpose of ZinnStarter is for an educational promise as you would or projection as opposed to… We don’t make any money. ZinnStarter doesn’t have any ownership in the idea. It’s strictly a way to educate the students, and that’s the purpose of ZinnStarter is it’s really an educational tool.

Rob Artigo: Let’s move on to question number three.

Student 4: Hey, Ray Zinn, thanks for the book and for funding opportunities here at West Virginia University and the LaunchLab and helping to uplift companies like ours. Our question for you is you ran Micrel for 37 years as the CEO, 36 years were profitable. If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice at the very beginning, what would that be? Thank you.

Ray Zinn: Well, my piece of advice was always the same as you just got to have a can-do attitude. Don’t give up. My advice is not so much making a lot of money. My advice is to have a good culture at the company because it’s the people and the culture that has the company be successful as opposed to just some kind of great idea. I don’t have any regrets because any problems that I encountered along the way, I always fixed them and repaired those problems, so I don’t really have any regrets.

Rob Artigo: Okay. Let’s go on to the next question.

Student 5: Hey, there. My name’s Tyler. I recently pitched Rock Shop at the ZinnStarter Pitch Competition this past month. I just want to say thank you for the book and supporting West Virginia’s entrepreneurial ecosystem, specifically the LaunchLab. I have a question for you. What can a leader do at no cost that makes their team feel more valued? Thanks for your time.

Ray Zinn: Well, I’d like to correct something in the beginning here, and that is I don’t really choose the students. It’s the school that chooses them. It’s a very selective program, just like an interview. You’re interviewed. I’m dealing with like seven schools, so obviously I don’t pick all the students. We have hundreds of students that are involved in the ZinnStarter program across the United States, and so it’s not me picking the students. It’s more the student boards or the professor that’s in charge of the ZinnStarter educational program that actually selects the students for the program. We get on average about one out of three students or one third of the ones that actually interview are selected.

Rob Artigo: Maybe we could rephrase this for the purposes of this particular student’s question and just say, what is it that you see is special in the students that… You get to-

Ray Zinn: Okay.

Rob Artigo: … listen to these questions and you get to see these presentations and who these people are. What stands out to you about them that makes them sort of these more… I don’t want to call them unicorns because nobody’s that, but being special in their ability to dive right into being entrepreneurs?

Ray Zinn: I’d say it’s the passion and drive that they have is the primary determining factor.

Rob Artigo: Fantastic, Ray. Gage your reaction to what this experience we had here? We haven’t done this before, which is have these video clips of these young people, young entrepreneurs, and it must be pretty exciting to see that feedback. They all had very nice things to say about you, about ZinnStarter. They each had a book in their hands that said, “Tough Things First,” and one of them pointed out that you got the handstand in the pictures behind me here, and that you’ve got your famous handstand there from your athleticism. But they all appreciated what you were doing with ZinnStarter, but also appreciated you. It must be pretty cool to hear some of that feedback.

Ray Zinn: Yeah. I was 65 when I did that handstand.

Rob Artigo: Well, probably more special to her now that you said that. Yeah. All right, Ray. Let’s wrap this up now. Thank you to all those entrepreneur or young people who joined in and helped us out with this podcast. I’d like to say please check us out at toughthingsfirst.com. All those Zinn stars are really cool people to have on the show. If you haven’t watched it yet, you can watch it by going to toughthingsfirst.com, and there is a video link there when you find this podcast. Listeners can check out Ray’s books, Tough Things First, of course, The Essential Leader, and the Zen of Zinn series is out there, including Zen of Zinn Daily, which is the newest one. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, subscribe, leave a review and share it with a leader who needs it. Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Right. Do the tough things first daily.

Rob Artigo: Daily.

You can solve lots of problems in life and work and it does not have to be a herculean effort. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn says if something is broken, fix it. Don’t wait until it becomes a disaster.

Rob Artigo: Ray, April 28th, 2026, you wake up in the morning ready to do the tough things first, but don’t set off on that adventure. I’m doing a commercial here. Don’t just set off on an adventure until you’ve checked in with today’s entry in the Zen of Zinn Daily, page 59.

Let’s talk Zen of Zinn Daily, your new book. It’s fantastic. In this book, you wrote, “When you clean up your act, you polish up your life in a way you will be genuinely happy with your performance. Let your act be one that you will be proud of.” I paraphrased that last part. It’s pretty much what it says. I just made up my own words there for a second. It happens.

Your response to that, which Zen of Zinn Daily does, it takes writing that you’ve done before, and then you write a response to it. And the response here is, “Traditionally, this relates to a person who makes a lot of mistakes, is unreliable, and could be more productive if they would only get things together. But you’re not one of those people.” That would be the listener or whoever’s reading this book. “Because you chose to read this book, which endeavors to help you improve and smooth out your rough edges. You probably are generally viewed as a good-act type. Today, polish your life, and be mindful that you will be judged. Always strive to improve your act.” That’s the end of that response.

Ray, in this writing today, you said, “Clean up your act. You polish up your life in a way you will be genuinely happy with your performance.” What does cleaning up your act look like in practical, everyday terms for a leader or entrepreneur who is already generally viewed as a good-act type?

Ray Zinn: Well, doing the tough things first is a start. If something is broken, fix it. Don’t wait until it becomes a disaster. The polishing up your act is what real performers do. Having been a performer at different times in my life, having to give talks and teach classes and otherwise give advice or writing a book, there’s a polishing-up part.

I’ve written six books now, and we always have to correct them. We have to clean up either spelling errors or grammatical errors. That’s polishing things up when we review them. I’m sure the listeners have seen a book and said, “Oh, they misspelled such and such a word,” or that the grammar’s not proper or that they didn’t use the past tense or the future tense. And it bothers you. When you see somebody making a mistake, either the way that they’ve taken care of the way they look or the way they act or the way they write or whatever it is that they’re doing … Could be an athlete. You can tell if he has not polished up his act or her act. That’s the key.

The key is polish up that act. Don’t let it become rusty or bad. Clean it. Take care of it. And don’t wait until it’s too late.

Rob Artigo: One of the things I do is I read a lot of books on Kindle, which is an Amazon app, so I’m reading it electronically. And it happens so often in writing books that there are errors that make it on the page. No matter how many times you look at it, somehow or another, there’s going to be something in there that doesn’t fit. The misuse of a word. Just the spelling. It plays right like there and their. They’re two different spellings, and they mean two different things, but they look the same on the page. Sometimes your brain doesn’t connect with it, and somehow it makes it there. In this Kindle app, you can actually highlight something and then send a note that says, “In this digital version, this is incorrect.” I’ll bet you it happens a lot. If they’ve got it as a tool in the app, then it must happen quite frequently. And that’s what happens in our lives. And what we have to do is smooth out those rough edges.

You noted that the person reading this book is not the kind of person that makes a lot of mistakes or is unreliable, but yet some things do happen. Someone actively working to smooth out those rough edges, how do even the high-performing leaders identify those subtle rough edges that still need polishing so they can be truly proud of their performance?

Ray Zinn: It’s preparation. I’m currently getting my driveway redone, and I noticed that they’re spending a lot of time in the prep side of it. And I was curious about that. And I was asking the contractor. I says, “Boy, you guys are spending more time in the prep than you are actually putting down the asphalt.”

He says, “I know from experience that if I don’t do the prep work, that I’m going to come back and have to redo the job again.” He says, “It’s measure twice, cut once, as you would.” And that’s that prep thing. Measure twice, cut once, because otherwise what you’ll do is, if you just measure once, you’re going to be cutting two or three times.

Preparation is the key to having a successful outcome, and that’s this polishing up that we’re talking about. Polish up your act. Clean it up. Get it right. Do the prep work, and then you won’t have to do that cleanup later.

Rob Artigo: And your prep work in doing the books has been a lesson in attention to detail and really getting the right things on the page as well, the right points, and that’s polishing up the book. That’s polishing up your life. I mean, that’s an example of how to do that. I was going to ask you about a couple of concrete ways a person can polish up their life and learn from Zen of Zinn Daily, but you clearly answer it there. Because let’s put it this way. I guess I’ll end with this, and then we’ll wrap it up, which is this applies whether you’re working at a job where you’re kind of working by yourself a lot, but your results matter to a company. It could be your personal interactions. It could be your personal habits. It can also be the things that occur at home, right?

Ray Zinn: Yep. Again, we’re all fallible, and we do make mistakes. In writing my books, I’ve read them and had others read them five and six times before we set ink to page as you would. And I always find errors. I always find something that I overlooked, I missed, so you can’t over-prepare. As they say, preparation is the key to success.

Rob Artigo: Your sketch should always be in pencil, not permanent marker, because you can’t get … I love the story about your driveway because that is absolutely right. You put something down that hard to remove, and it’s wrong. You’re going to have a major issue.

Join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome. Follow Ray at X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And of course the books we’ve talked about already, Tough Things First, The Essential Leader: 10 Skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals That Make Up the Essential Leader. And as you know, the Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three now includes Ray’s new book, Zen of Zinn Daily.

Thanks, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.

In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn tells us about how embedding careful spending habits (without being cheap) builds discipline across the company.

Rob Artigo: Some leaders treat spending like a scorecard. The more you spend, the more successful you look. I’m Rob Artigo, your host for this edition of the Tough Things First podcast with Ray Zinn, the longest-serving CEO in Silicon Valley history. Hi, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Hi, Rob. Good to be with you today.

Rob Artigo: It’s great to be with you. At Micrel, you turned careful spending into a competitive superpower. Today, that’s what we’re exploring here. How you institutionalized frugality: not cheapness, but disciplined thrift. Ray, welcome. And you often say cash is king, at least that’s your actions. How did you turn frugality into an ingrained part of Micrel’s culture, rather than just a temporary policy?

Ray Zinn: Well, I always think of what can go wrong will go wrong, as in Murphy’s law. I know in flying my airplane that I want to make sure I have enough fuel in the tank to get me out of trouble. We call it an alternate airport. The FAA tells you you should have at least enough to get to your destination, and then have another 45 minutes to get to an alternate airport, because weather can change, or situation can change where you can’t always get to where you want to go at that particular moment.

The key here is to have some reserve. If you don’t have a reserve, I guarantee you you’re going to end up in a situation that you will regret. Frugality, it’s like flying a plane. Don’t burn as much fuel as you can to go too quicker, because you may pay that price on the other end. Liken it to flying. We call it the reserve. You want to have a reserve. I don’t know of a single pilot that’s a qualified, good pilot, that doesn’t have a reserve. And that’s that frugal point. Again, just because you can fly faster, doesn’t mean that’s the best way to go, especially if you’re going to limit your runway, your ability to land safely.

Rob Artigo: And you’ve shared that this mindset helped Micrel survive industry cycles that sank many of the competitors. You’ve told stories here on the podcast. If you look back on your career at Micrel, there are a couple of circumstances. I think at the very beginning, one of the interesting stories was about how you had to, on a budget that didn’t take venture capital to do, was to create a fab for semiconductors. And in order to do that, you picked up some of the older equipment because it was on sale, and you were able to make use of that and make the fab work.

Ray Zinn: Yes. Again, I liken it to these examples that we have. If used equipment will do you just as well, then definitely go that route as opposed to always buying everything brand new. There’s some downside, of course, of buying used equipment. It’s going to fail quicker, and you’re going to have downtime. If you can’t afford that downtime, then you’re going to have to buy newer equipment.

I liken it, again, to flying. If you keep your maintenance up good on it, and then you keep everything in ship shape, then you’re less likely to have a problem. Just because you have money in a bank. Doesn’t mean you have to spend it. And the same thing with equipment or with employees. Don’t exaggerate your need, thinking that business is going to go straight up, and then you then have to lay off all these people. Being careful is the key to having a reserve. Be careful as you run your company or your life.

Rob Artigo: Does that help build broader discipline across the company, and prepare leaders for the economic storms ahead?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. It really goes to how you’ve mentored your people. As I was talking to my pilot yesterday, we were talking about his having to go back to be certified in Florida, and I was chuckling, thinking how he was cautious about how much money he spent. He got a hotel closer to the training school so he could walk, as opposed to getting a car. He was also concerned about the kind of restaurants he went to, so he didn’t overspend.

And so he put himself on a budget. And even though I didn’t tell him to, because of the way we run our business, we look for frugality. So that was ingrained in him as he went on that trip, that he wanted to make sure he didn’t overspend on that training. So I was tickled to hear that yesterday as we were chatting about his training recently last week.

Rob Artigo: I had some experiences recently where I was away in a hotel for a week, and one thing I did was I brought milk for the refrigerator and boxes of breakfast cereal, and that’s what I ate in the morning. And that was something in the past where I would go to the hotel’s lobby and have breakfast there, which usually going to be more calories, more fat, and that sort of thing. But mostly, let’s say it’s $20 a day that I’m spending on breakfast. Well, if I’m there for five days, that’s a hundred bucks that I didn’t need to spend. I probably spent $12 on the milk and the cereal boxes. It makes sense to just get into that habit, because a penny saved is a penny earned, and looks good, but it’s real value. It doesn’t just look good. It’s real value, right?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. As you say, a penny saved is a penny earned. I learned that as a child. I grew up in a family where I was the oldest of 11 children, and we had to reuse a lot of things. We hand out our shoes, we hand down some clothes to the younger children, and you didn’t look at you were being a cheapskate, you looked at it as being frugal.

So being frugal, it doesn’t mean you’re a cheapskate. It just means that you’re minding your wares, as you would, minding your income and not spending when you don’t have to spend.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. Wise words, Ray. Institutionalized frugality isn’t about cutting corners, it’s about building strength that lasts through good times and bad. So thanks for sharing that. Lessons from your 34, I mean, 37 years at Micrel. I don’t want to shortchange you there, speaking of money. Listeners, explore Ray’s books, Tough Things First and the Essential Leader. If today’s podcast hit home with you, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a leader who could use this particular superpower. Until next time, do the tough things first, including making every dollar count. Right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Let’s do it. Frugality is not cheap. Frugality is just good sense, good practice.

Has fail fast been the mantra upsetting your company’s culture? In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn contrasts superficial “fail fast” advice with a proven approach: quickly acknowledging errors.

Rob Artigo: I’m a former radio personality and reporter for KGO 810 in San Francisco and a writer. Here with me, once again, is Ray Zinn, the longest serving CEO in Silicon Valley history. Being invited back, Ray, is always an education.

Ray Zinn: Well, thanks, Rob. It’s always an education to be with you on these.

Rob Artigo: This podcast contrasts superficial fail-fast advice with a proven approach that you like to talk about, quickly acknowledging errors, extracting the lesson, and ensuring the same mistake never repeats itself while still driving bold innovation, so let’s get started. You’ve said, “Mistakes are like glue. They stick around if not handled properly. How do leaders create a culture where people own mistakes without fear?

Ray Zinn: By recognizing that we all make mistakes. In other words, you have to understand that you’re not infallible, that you will make mistakes. The problem is not making a mistake. The problem is not correcting it. As you pointed out, it’s that glue factor. I mean, if the glue is improperly applied, the quickest thing is to wipe it off and redo it, as opposed to waiting until it’s hardened and it makes it impossible to adjust and adhere properly, so there’s a balancing act, okay? We don’t want to wait till the glue hardens. We want to get it while the glue, we can wipe it off and start over.

So, recognizing you’re making a mistake is the important thing, and that’s the problem that most of us have, is recognizing, when we make a mistake, we tend to want to think that we’re perfect, we’re infallible, and that we’ll never make a mistake. What I always do, and this is something that I preach in my book, The Essential Leader, is that I test myself. I look at the pros and cons of all my decisions. I don’t just look at the pros. I know that bad things happen. Murphy’s law is that which can go wrong, will go wrong. And so, I test myself. I test my decisions. I never go without validating whether that was a good decision or a bad decision, by looking at what possible mistakes can occur.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. On this podcast in particular, we learn a lot and we have as a reference the book, The Tough Things First, and also The Essential Leader, and you can dive into those pages and learn about how to manage these situations. We also talked about on this podcast, and recently we have about eating the ugly frog and doing that first. Rather than just doing the tough things first, sometimes you have to eat the ugly frog. You got to own your mistakes, and that is recognizing that you’re just human and that mistakes do happen. You’ve got to just roll with it. You’re like, “Okay. That happened,” and now let’s move forward, let’s improve on that, and let’s take that as a lesson learned and not repeat it.” Yeah, that’s a fundamental of the tough-things-first philosophy.

Ray Zinn: Well, I think that’s the error that’s made in politics. I don’t know of a single politician that will own up to a mistake. I’ve never heard one. I’m sure they’re out there, but they’re not very frequent, where a politician will admit they made a mistake or came to the wrong conclusion or decision. So don’t be a politician. Don’t think that the sun always shines on you and that you never make a mistake. The key here is recognizing the mistake early by looking at, as I said, I look at all my decisions and look at the downside. I look at what can go wrong, as Murphy’s law states, so that I don’t wait until the mistake happens. I anticipate it. I call it anticipating mistakes, because you will make them, so question your decision. Question, question, question.

Rob Artigo: Well, on this podcast, we have a lot of listeners, and many of them are presently leaders in some role. Some of them are future leaders, and maybe they don’t even know it yet, and others are just trying to improve themselves so that, when they become a leader, that they’re prepared and can handle the tasks, so what practical steps can they take to learn from their mistakes without falling into the fail fast trap?

Ray Zinn: Okay, so when you have a decision to make, look at the pros and cons. You should have as many cons as you do pros. If all you see is upside, I guarantee you your decision’s going to be questionable. And so, before you have to decide, go through that process of looking at the downside, what can go wrong, will go wrong, so that when something does go wrong, you recognize it immediately and you correct it immediately.

Rob Artigo: I’ve learned, from talking to you over these recent years, and I get the pleasure of being able to do that, I get to ask you a whole bunch of questions and learn from you right on the spot in real time. That’s what’s cool about this podcast, is we get to share that conversation with so many different people, but I’ve learned here that true leadership turns mistakes into one time tuition instead of recurring costs, and that’s what you’re saying about the learning from your mistakes, rather than repeating your mistakes, so thanks for the hard-earned lessons once again, Ray. I really appreciate it.

Ray Zinn: Thank you, Rob.

Rob Artigo: Listeners, dive into Ray’s books, Tough Things First and The Essential Leader, as well as the Zen of Zinn series. If this podcast episode resonates with you, subscribe, leave a review, share it with someone who needs it. Oh, that’s important. Until next time, do the tough things first, starting with owning and fixing your mistakes. Right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Exactly. Question your decision.

Explore how the Essential Leader hands off responsibility effectively and avoids the “I’ll just do it myself” trap. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explores why it is essential to maintain accountability and quality, without obsessing and micromanaging.

Rob Artigo: Many leaders say that they delegate, but secretly they’re thinking it’ll be faster if I just do it myself. That trap can kill growth. It can burn out leaders. It also keeps the teams from developing the way that they normally would in bonding, I think. So today, Ray, let’s explore how the essential leader hands off the responsibility effectively and maintains accountability and equality. Especially in the fast-moving tech environments that we all work in. And it also avoids the micromanagement trap, the negative kind. In your book, The Essential Leader, you talk about delegation as one of the essential skills. Why is it so hard for many leaders to let go without losing control?

Ray Zinn: Well, because they don’t trust whoever they’ve assigned the task to and so the person you assign the task to assumes that you don’t trust them.

Ray Zinn: You don’t believe in their ability. And that’s the negative side of micromanaging. Because we talk about the two faces of micromanaging actually in the book, the bad face and then the good face. So as you would that smiley face versus that frowning face. So what we’re talking about today is that frowny face, or when we don’t trust the person that we gave the task to. And so we end up doing it ourselves or we think that they’re not going to be able to perform the task in a timely way. And that’s a real sign of an organization that there’s a lack of trust.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. It shows that there’s a disconnect somewhere in there, a malfunctioning cog in the wheels, so to speak. So you’ve mentioned there’s a good side and bad side to micromanaging here on this program. And in your book, The Essential Leader, you also talk about doing it the right way. What is the good thing about micromanaging? Rethinking micromanaging is what you talk about in the book. So how does that fit into effective delegation?

Ray Zinn: Well, when we talk about micromanaging, most people think the negative, the frowny face, the bad side of it. But little things become big things if you don’t take care of them in a timely way. And so that’s the smiley face version of micromanaging is don’t let the little things become a big thing. Don’t ignore the signs what … If you get a signal that your employee is struggling, that they’re having difficulty, don’t let them fail. Okay. Go to them in a kind and gentle way, help them get back on path. And so that’s the smiley face of micromanaging.

And now we call that coaching and be a good coach. Don’t overmanage and don’t undermanage. In other words, there’s a balance. If you let employee fail or if you let a customer fail, or whoever it is you’re relating to, that’s hard. I mean, that’s like one bad apple spoils a whole barrel. So don’t let them have a bad experience because then they’re not going to even trust themselves. So that’s a good side of micromanaging. Keep in tune. Stay in tune with your customers and with your employees. And if you see things going awry, don’t let it become a big thing. Nip it in the bud, as they say.

Rob Artigo: Part of this is accountability and maintaining high quality once you’ve handed off that responsibility. You touched on some of these areas already, so without being sounding repetitive here, it’s important. How do we maintain accountability and high quality once we’ve let it go? And give the responsibility to the team and the team leader?

Ray Zinn: Well, if you don’t give the employee a chance or the situation a chance, whether it be at home or your children or your spouse, if you don’t give them a chance, then they’re going to not respond. They’re going to procrastinate. They’re going to say, “Oh, well, dad or mom’s going to take care of it.” And so they rely too heavily on you jumping in and solving the problem. You do want them to struggle a bit. You want them to have to learn by experience.

The key here is, is just be aware when they’re about to fall off the edge as you would. It’s a balancing act. You don’t want to overly step in or you don’t want to underly step in as they say, wait too long. Be cognizant. Be aware. Is that return report principle where you give them the assignment, but then you check up. You see how they’re doing. You can tell that by, if you ask for reports on a regular basis, you can tell by the reports that they’re giving, whether they’re on top of the project or not.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. The essential leader doesn’t do more, they enable more. And like you said, you’re a coach, you’re a mentor. Giving people a chance, especially in situations where they can take a little longer or maybe if they fail a little bit, you can get them in line and coach them into the right direction. But let them learn from their little mistakes. And also learn to trust themselves to make good decisions, right?

Ray Zinn: Well, is failure good or bad? Well, it depends. Failure is bad if you never recover. Failure is good is if you learn from that experience. So there’s that, again, that yin and yang of failure. We all learn through our mistakes. But if it’s a permanent mistake, if we wait too long so it’s not recoverable, then that’s a bad mistake, a bad failure. It’s the yin and yang of failure. We shouldn’t be afraid of failure, but also we want to resolve failure so that the outcome is good.

Rob Artigo: Delegation done right multiplies your impact and develops good leaders at the same time, future leaders. Join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome. Follow Ray on X, Facebook and LinkedIn, and of course pick up Ray’s books. Tough Things First, The Essential Leader: 10 Skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals That Make Up the Essential Leader. And as you know, the Zen of Zin series one, two, and three. It now includes Ray’s new book, Zen of Zen Daily. Thanks, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.